Stunning Surprise Two In A Screenplay - Eric Edson [Screenwriting Masterclass]
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- Опубліковано 7 гру 2024
- In the first two weeks of the Fall semester, California State University, Northridge screenwriting professor Eric Edson presents PowerPoint lessons to the entering first year grad MFA class. He begins with the Hero Goal Sequences story structure paradigm. Here is an inside look at a portion of the lecture.
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Here is a link to Stunning Surprise One In A Screenplay - ua-cam.com/video/CwHdzz3RZLc/v-deo.html
I look forward to this continued series. Masterclass tag is out, excellent. I'd love to see more of Edson's lectures, if possible. Reminds me of Brandon Sanderson's free videos on UA-cam.
Film Courage thank you. I’ve watched the HGS segment 2.5 times... Hope I’m not missing something, but did he mention how long each HGS should be? Within say act 1. Or does/can it vary.
How do you like this video, would you like to see more like this?
Film Courage yes!! More more
Yes!
Absolutely love this (if only all my lectures were like this)... Please keep mind-blowing us with these in depth class stuff
Yes! Please! This is wonderful!
This is probably one of the most helpful videos I've seen on the topic of screenwriting, yes please for more!
Two things I'd like to say:
1. It's incredibly generous of Prof Edson to share this through you guys. Thank you. I'm amazed that comments here often moan when he's giving golden advice for free. Many of us are very grateful, so please keep up the good work!
2. I'm shaking my head when comments purport to know more than the experts in the videos. The thinking seems to be: 'Screw the fact that someone has dedicated their professional life to studying and teaching this subject, and who cares that they have written successfully for Sony, Warner Brothers, Disney, 20th Fox, ABC Motion Pictures, Lifetime, Showtime, NBC, and TNT (like Prof Edson has). Now that I've watched 11 videos on UA-cam and published nothing, I clearly know better.' Jeez guys, have a word with yourselves!
"written successfully for"
A few TV movies and a couple of z-grade films that bombed do not equate with genius.
He may have nailed his backformation "formula" but has not shown he can replicate that success himself.
Following all the "success formula" rules in the world won't save you, if your story and characters are boring or cliched.
If your movie is entertaining, all the plot flaws will be forgiven (see Monty Python and the Holy Grail)
Please feature lots more of Eric Edson. I've learned more this week watching stuff from him than anything else I've watched anywhere!
he explains so clearly
David, we do have more with Eric Edson. Look forward to sharing it with you in the coming weeks.
Re: The 303 on the door. A 303 Error is when a page you're trying to access redirects you to another page - a sudden reversal, if you will.
This must be the best masterclass on this topic....Pof. Eric Edson looks so excited to impart the knowledge....wow....he is an ideal teacher....
Wow, the hero goal sequence is incredible information. Thank you.
Thanks to Eric Edson for allowing us to come in and spend some time with his class.
God, what a remarkable teacher he is. I feel so lucky to have found his content on UA-cam.
How are you in a screenwriting class and never watched the matrix??
FilmMagician nobody ever got laid because they’d seen the matrix-anything else is nerd logic
It was a dream of mine long ago to study creative writing at UCLA - I was born there! I never made it to the college so it’s an honor to learn from you now.
Heaven sent. Thank you Film courage. Thank you professor Eric Edson
You are very welcome
I'd really love to see this kind of structure breakdown for TVs show writing. Episodic and overarching
I mean I’m sure it’s the same. It’s just spread out over more time of course
@@finallyanime it is not the same. it is more complicated
How can we get the PDF of the complete HGS sheet?
Thanks and your channel is a life saver.
Thanks FC for being such a valuable resource to all of us.
Thanks Anthony, we appreciate your support. Doing our best to provide value.
Great video, thank you for this. The first video was great! Set up is a lot easier for me.... the middle always traps me. This is a huge help for crafting the middle of the story and lead up to the climax!
Thanks for the comment Lawrence. Our understanding is most writers get trapped in the middle. We may have to explore that more in upcoming interviews.
Agreed. It does seem to be a really useful tool for outlining and revising.
A couple of things I've picked up recently that might help:
1. Instead of thinking in terms of the audience waiting for the "best bit" we want to get to [writing], how can we make EACH scene be someone's FAVORITE scene in the story?
2. We should have a clear purpose for each scene, and ideally fulfilling more than one purpose, especially thinking about the motivations of the characters, rather than what we the writer wants them to do.
3. For pacing, (in revision) try switching around the order of the scenes, or combining scenes, and see how it changes things.
Film Courage oh, and if you guys talk to Eric anytime soon, I’m pretty sure the “303” on the door in the climax of the matrix is a reference to the computer error, a 303.
Great stuff! I love the bold assertions of the structure and how many hero goal sequences are needed in each act.
Expert advice - from a real expert! Thank you for uploading this
THIS IS AMAZING! Thank-you so much! Two things drive me crazy about this. #1. So many film students that haven't seen some of the movie suggestions he's making and #2. How anxious the students are to either leave or are falling asleep. Gah! Are you kidding me? This is VITAl stuff for a class that I would think would be super passionate for this subject matter if they are here in film school or whatever this is, to learn. My oh my.... I'm learning, anyway. :)
Thank you, Mr. Edson. Wonderful lecture.
I'd love to see more content akin to this but for television writing. The more methodical approaches to story can be hard to translate when they focus on the movie medium too much. Example: do I apply this over the course of a whole season, or the whole series, or even every episode? There's a lot of advice that is applicable for both mediums, but also enough difference to justify separate studies. If one were to stretch this advice across a show, I suspect the result would be a show with the content of a 2 hour movie (which isn't unheard of lol)
Television has different kinds of structures within itself. Are you talking about a 6-8 episode season akin to Peaky Blinders, The Boys and Stranger things, or are you talking about a 22 episode series such as Arrow, Supernatural and the Originals?
Excellent professor! Please feature more of him.
Thanks Susana! Here is everything we have posted with Professor Edson - bit.ly/3r4cfwy
Priceless
Here it is! Thank you!
Cheers!
This is simply incredible. I think there is no better way to learn than by watching a person teach in from of other people.
Is there any way we could get the PowerPoint Presentation?
Thanks Christian. We are hoping to publish the slides on our website. (We've been a little behind on our work, but hopefully we will have them up in the near future. We'll post a link in the description when ready.)
I concur.
Hi Christian, we ended up putting the slideshow together in video form for the entire lecture. We just uploaded it here - ua-cam.com/video/javTJoP_cyc/v-deo.html
@@b3n3ll1s Here you go! - ua-cam.com/video/javTJoP_cyc/v-deo.html
@@filmcourage Amazing. Thank you very much.
Really loving this resource 😀
This is gold!
Great video!
I am skeptical, but open. I am generally skeptical when people use terms like "always" and "never". My intuition tells me that it is likely true for a large number of movies.
I hope we get to see more, because he did hint at extraordinary evidence for his extraordinary claim.
Very good point Lon. Our understanding is that Professor Edson and his students will dissect movie after movie in class where they go deeper and deeper into his teachings. Beyond that he has his book Story Solution which is also a deep dive into his teachings.
@@filmcourage just ordered his book, thank you for these videos! I was lost in my writing without them.
This kind of sounds like dissecting the spaces between the larger traditional plot points Act 2 onward (from: End Act 1 - Mid point - DNS - Climax - Den.). "the little surprise" is a mini "set-up" to the next major plot point. It may sound overly simplistic, but to me, this is just "good story telling" -- you can't just jump from major plot point to the next and use the excuse of efficiency. There needs to be a short/sweet setup that makes sense -- when these are missing your story won't flow and character motivations fall to the way-side.
I usually don't tend to like prescriptive models that act as road maps and I honestly don't think they work well as blue-prints. However, I do find this kind of analysis is useful in assessing "where you are" in terms of reaching your climax and what can be cut. Without this kind of analysis it's hard to know what's self-indulgent and what can easily be cut.
In the Hero Goal Sequences, could that apply to other characters in some cases? and not just the main hero?
This is golden.
Thanks for watching!
Absolutely welcome.
I’m in the process of developing a screenplay for a space adventure video game with professional voice acting, could be an animated show as well.
I definitely need a solid guide for the script and these videos help me tremendously.
Love to hear our work is helping you with yours. We're grateful that Professor Edson put us in a position to share his teachings. We know he would be thrilled that other writers are finding value here.
Question; he mentions that by the beginning of Act 3, the hero has won. Do they have to win though? What if they lose? Not for the sake of surprise, but maybe to learn something meaningful, or if there are continuations, that loss triggers a sequence of events that will affect the protagonist? Is it set in stone that they always have to win by the end?
Can you think of any movies where the hero doesn't win?
@@filmcourage Infinity War, Gone Girl, Star Wars 3 and 5, Basic Instinct, No Country For Old Men, Watchmen, The Dark Knight, Rocky, Se7en, Scarface, Fight Club, Silence of the Lambs and Primal Fear are some of the greats that come to mind.
Looks like you have plenty of answers to your original question.
@@filmcourage Doesn't that contradict part of his lesson though?
@@alexman378 Analysis is not creation. While these lectures are good, please remember there are no rules, only strategies. Structure is extremely important, but there isn't only one, and even that one has many paths, not just the wide lane he describes. Robert Heinlein said, 'One man's religion is another man's belly laugh.' Every person seeking to be a guru develops some sort of system with 'musts' and 'rules' and certain numbers and types of characters, situations, etc. Few creative people look at story in this fill-in-the-boxes way. Think of these things more as tools you might or might not use in building your project. Just remember this: The slavish mimicry of pattern leads to completely predictable stories, just as knowing the sequence of anything allows you to predict the next image/number/plot moment/outcome. Good luck with your work.
Fly, you fools!
We want heroes, characters who are proactive. If a hero isn't making choices, then he is just living without making choices. We need characters to make choices because those choices are what allow us to connect to them. The decisions they make give us hope for their outcomes. If a character is pulled through a story, it's the same as that character not wanting to participate, so the audience won't want to participate either.
33 is some kinda code for sure :)
This is amazing 🤯🤯
What I'm really interested in is how this translates into a movie with multiple main characters... Do all their other decisions just form different segments to each of the main heroes select action steps?!? And what happens in a movie series... Or does each movie follow this process except that the third act of each will form a bridge to the first act of the next movie in the series? I'm intrigued
In a movie, that’s tricky. In a series, it’s easier, due to time constraints. I’ve found that if you have a series, you need to split the two main characters you want to follow up. Otherwise they both follow the same exact story, and there is no point, one has to be the main focus, otherwise you risk underdevelopment. Game of Thrones has famously done that with a multitude of protagonists, but they are all separated, each one following their own story. Even if they live in the same environment, like the Lanisters, each one has a different job, and certain relationships such as Cersei’s and Tyrion’s, force then to be apart, not because someone removes them from each other, but simply because they can’t stand each other. So now they have to have their own stories, individually. But, if two characters are close, like Cersei is with Jaime, then they need to have a reason to split. Jaime fights in wars, or gets kidnapped for example, so now he has to have his own story. See what I mean? This can work in a movie, but you need to be pretty great at balancing things out, and flesh out all your protagonists well enough as to avoid them being called “shallow” or “one dimensional”, or avoid your story dragging as to flesh out these people. Tarantino just did it with Once Upon a Time In Hollywood, with an actor and his stunt double. The whole movie is just “a few days in the life” basically, and again, you’ll notice, Tarantino finds a way to get them separated, and blames it on the stunt man’s behavior and troubled past, so he has to have his own individual story which is still in tune with his friend’s.
@@alexman378 I appreciate the comment but I don't feel like you answered my question... In fact you rather point out why I believe it's a conundrum. (I may not have explained myself very well).
The 20 something steps that Eric points out that every screenplay needs only accounts for how the main character will progressively solve the main story problem. I therefore don't know how this formula accounts for other major characters. Do you add/bintermingle another 20- steps? Or would not this destroy this perfect balance that he argues is the sweetspot. The only option I see, that works is that each of the other characters decisions are different scenes within each 'screenplay step' that exist only to assist the hero in arriving at his new realisation/ allow him to progress to his next goal/ step. I also assume that maybe because they are secondary their individual steps only form part of the bigger step and would be a lot less significant and as many. Otherwise it seems to me that they would compete with the main character for our attention and divert it from the main stories narrative drive. For something like Game of Thrones I can not imagine how complex this would be or wether it could even be planned out as such... (Especially as we are never made aware who the main hero is or even if there is one) That is where I guess basic intuition of a good story would help. Or maybe they are on a different plain altogether.
BTW I heard the latest Tarantino film was a bit of a hit and miss with very mixed reactions... Probably not a good example of a formula that Eric points out as being at the centre of Al widely accepted/ commercially successful box-office hits... Just maybe, Tarantino stuffed up these steps somewhere along the lines (probs the beginning cause I've heard it's a bore... Though I don't know, as I haven't seen the movie yet or know if I want to)
Can anyone tell me what stunning surprise #1 in Erin Brockovich is supposed to be?
Which is the "obligatory scene"?
In another Eric Edson video the 2hr+ one, he says it's the "payoff" scene.
Just realized when Eric Edson uses the Matrix as an example, it's likely older than most people in that class XD (1999)
Oh gosh time is catching up to us
Who was it who said, all you have to know about plot is to make sure each new situation is more exciting than the previous.Or, certainly, a rising story arc.Then, my addtion, a Falling story arc. A non equilaudrant triangle. ( Shorter as well- act three -the pay off) Home free. Think bk to the future.
Great
Part III on Film Courage 2 (different UA-cam Channel): ua-cam.com/video/0vft2493hZs/v-deo.html
Very informative but I am very skeptical of the "always exactly 6 in Act 1" claim.
I suspect that is true in some cases but highly question any claims of absolutes.
27:00
"love interest character"
I heard usually human be able to remember 6 paragraphs of info freely. That's where number 6 comes from I guess. There is no point of making more HGS than a human can freely remember.btw ua-cam.com/video/ecjRtbBKiVk/v-deo.html
someone hasnt seen the matrix?/
he's far from my favorite of your featured teachers. bombards you with so much info, which can intimidate young writers. and he's said something like, before you start writing you need a list of 100 movies that are the best of all time or something. Yes, there's an all or lost moment. but not all the mid act points need to be stunning surprises. sometimes the person confronted in midpoint is an ally,, sometimes it's an enemy, sometimes it's neither.
In man of Steel Superman is passive. He doesnt make things happen. Things happen to him and his heroism feels out of obligation instead of what he really feels.
His passivity continues until Zod arrives and Forces him to act. This is the main reason That feel failed.
The film's that don't confirm to this, must be in the minority. The exception to the rule. I'd love to know what film's violate this rule andvwhy, if you get do, work. Writing without a net. True art.
Although very informative and well told, I cannot agree with parts of this lesson/session. The ones dealing with the amount of changes, stunning surprises and hero goal sequences required in a successful script. It seems way too mechanical an approach to me. Above all, your story has to flow and be a good read for a qualified script reader.
The nuance is the skill of the writer, and the expert reader appreciates the craft. I'm sure following this method doesn't automatically generate a great script, you still have to put your touch on it.
666.Devilishy good. The mark of the master.
remember folks, 'nobody knows nothin' - forget dogma, do it your way!
Really? I took this is as give everyone 'the rules', and then let them choose which rules to break and why.
He's explaining there's a pattern, which the human mind enjoys, as it has done throughout storytelling. Better to tell people that at first, no?
@@Ruylopez778 its a mass delusion. people see patterns everywhere. 3-act, 5-act, hero journey, etc. plus the pedagogy of screenwriting is a lucrative business across academia and publishing - so many self-appointed gurus (most have never sold a screenplay!'
@@roathripper In this case he's written 17 feature screenplays, two of which he has full credit for.
Unless you're shooting your own scripts, you'll probably have notes telling you how your beautiful work of art doesn't work because it doesn't subscribe to the "mass delusion" right? Because selling a script is about having a script that fits neatly in what Hollywood want to shoot at that time.
"Do it your way!" will involve a lot of trial and error, unless the writer happens to be lucky or a genius - to end up with something that fits in the consensus.
I mean, if you DISLIKE half of all the most popular movies of the 60 years that would prove your point.
How does a composer write a symphony without first knowing the techniques to play a piano?
I think 303 comes to 33... Related to the age Jesus had when he died... So... Neo is about to die at 33...