What's the deal with Pancake Nebari (roots) - Deciduous Bonsai Podcast Episode 8
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- Опубліковано 30 січ 2025
- In this episode, Andrew and Maciek debate the dreaded pancake nebari, and reveal why it might be a good thing after all! Andrew brings his professional insight while enthusiast Maciek translates it to bonsai beginners. We hope you enjoy the eighth of many podcasts focused on creating and maintaining beautiful deciduous bonsai art.
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It's an interesting topic!!! I find Ficus trees tend to get this massive fusion of roots also. It's not my favorite style of a root base, I think with careful root management, pruning and thinning, the surface roots can be kept as individual roots over long periods of time. I think just like a Ficus tree, when a root gets too thick and starts to merge with those beside it, it needs to be cut back hard, utilizing the finer roots that emerge. Root carving and splitting can also help. I have seen pancake roots in nature and they look interesting, but keeping the roots as individual roots helps create a nice fluted trunk. I think the pancake roots and the smooth round trunk aren't as interesting as seeing individual surface roots blending into a fluted trunk. I see with mature Ficus bonsai, it's common to airlayer a new ring of roots off of a well developed nebari, just to be able to reduce the size and spread of the roots. It also gets nice fine surface roots, rather than large out of scale older roots.
I really enjoyed the video, what a great topic!!!
Just like with ficus, I think its inevitable by doing good root work in a shallow container, but I've also found that the longer people are in bonsai the more they appreciate the "pancake nebari"
Would you consider putting the audio from these out on other platforms, like you did with the first episode on bonsai wire? I'd definitely listen as a standalone podcast.
ditto. apple pods?
spotify please
Coming this spring! You can listen to them on the Google/UA-cam music app!
Really enjoying this conversation. love how off the cuff some of the most amazing thoughts are too. many thanks for sharing your knowledge and skill
Thanks for tuning in, glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for discussing this matching root question at 33:20 I always wondered if the added root grafting needed to be the same.
Thanks for tuning in!
I think a nice big nebari is what make a nice maple attractive. It’s visually it the first place my eyes go when looking at them then it travels up the tree. This is one area in the USA that growers lack. Not many people take the time to create and Actually grow maples here that have even a decent nebari. With the hobby at an all time high. I really hope to see people here push the boundaries when it comes to bonsai in general but especially maples
I definitely agree!
You need to check out the maples Mark Comstock grows and sells, they’re exceptional, however his prices reflect the extreme skill and effort that he puts into it. Which I feel is totally warranted. I think part of the issues is knowledge by the hobbiest, they get excited and purchase trees with poor nebari, so growers are not incentivized to take the time to create the higher quality nebari.
Maybe some people don’t know how to grow great trees. I blessed to be living close to some exceptional bonsai professionals. If it wasn’t for my learning from talented growers I wouldn’t know the different or how great trees are created. That said I still don’t think my skills are pretty low on the learning curve.
Great job. Thanks guys 👍
Thanks for tuning in!
Super insightful, I’ve been growing my trees in large standard pots as a sort of halfway between a bonsai pot and field growing. I’ll have to make some boxes to repot this spring
Boxes are great for developing deciduous
Root selection upon the first work on building the root system is nice. It's good to reduce clutter. In nature the trees don't grow a plate of roots at the surface, there is usually a dozen roots going outward.
In nature trees don't do a lot of what we do in bonsai, the way I see it bonsai are painting of trees, not literal photographs, which leaves room for artistic interpretation and creates beautiful variety in our community
Thanks for sharing your view on the nebari.
Thanks for listening!
I dig the podcast but have a suggestion that would help me a listener out. when you speak about examples I'd love to see the video show examples as you talk. especially anything good vs bad kind of comparison. Thanks guys! Cheers!
Thanks for the suggestion, we hope to do more b-roll in the future when time allows
Great discussion! When you talk about top dressing, the spaghnum moss or live green moss do you mean? Or both work for the purpose? Thanks
Both work the same
@@rakuyobonsaiThank you!
Great podcasts. Just some feedback.. The reddit moderator asking questions should let the other guy finish answering the question before interjecting with another question or comment.
Thanks for the tip, this is how we normally converse which might not be how normal people converse, but it's authentic to how we'd chat if the camera wasn't there!
Would be really cool to have someone on the podcast to talk about the other point of view. The problem with crafts like Bonsai is that the more time you spend in it, the more you're indoctrinated into a specific aesthetic. I think its great that people with different backgrounds and fresh perspectives come into Bonsai and make us think about concepts in a different way. One example a lot of new Bonsai people usually point out to me is the fact that trees seldom naturally grow out sideways, they grow up and out. And that's something a lot of experienced bonsai people will do because that's what you tend to do after looking at thousands of Bonsai that do that. But I can appreciate both. And Time and time again I see these Bonsai masters come in and completely dismiss anything outside their own frame of reference. We should try and look for things we like about someone else's work, instead of criticizing in and trying to make it look more like what you would have done to it. Stay humble and positive people :)
The issue is, the people who do podcasts tend to have a deep understanding of bonsai, and the people who have a deep understanding of bonsai tend to appreciate the pancake nebari. It's part of the sustainability formula of Japanese maple, you can't have age without it
Daggum, what a great conversation. Thanks for letting us be a part of it.
Instant respect if you have a fused nebari, it tells me this tree is very old, slowly grown, and well taken care of.
Thanks for tuning in!
Had no idea . I call i pancake nebari but I love how it looks! Even like the big wide one that consumes a pot lol
It's an acquired taste, but I find people who truly understand Japanese maples tend to have it 10:1
People are scared about growing pancake nebari the same way they are scared about getting "too muscular" if they start lifting weights.
Most people don’t even have a glimmer of hope to keep a maple healthy enough and long enough to develop a nebari like this so it doesn’t matter
Yes that's right, it's not something that just magically happens
In my experience maples are one of the friendliest deciduous species for people, but it definitely depends on your climate
Great chat. This type of nebari is literally my goal before I even start messing with the rest of the tree, specially on maples. I aim for lateral, 360 degree roots, before I worry about trunk and branches. Always start with the roots, it will save you a headache in the future!
Amazing goal, that's great and the ideal approach in my opinion. We need more growers focusing on roots first
I have never heard the term 'pancake nebari' in the UK. The term fused is used.
Probably a crude American thing ;)
To me it represents a tree that’s been in a pot for decades. I love them and sumos.
i hate them, personally, and it's not just an aesthetic preference
The beautiful thing about art is that there is variety and we don't all have to agree
👍
:)
Dude you look great. 👍 When i hear turtle back nebari i cringe. I personally think Carpinus gets a pass on the nebari feature. I do have an old skinny container grown Coreana with a pretty sweet nebari.
Thank you! I think collected trees in general get a pass! If it's grown from something young I expect great things!
Like lots of aspects of bonsai it's an exaggeration of an element. All good if it makes a tree more appealing.
Completely agree!
Got a lil shoe game with the bonsai pot to match.
Ha luck of the draw on that!
If you like a fused nebari, great and if you don't, thats fine too. We are all different. Life would be boring if we all thought the same.
Agreed!
Altho I know exactly what you are referring to, I don't believe "pankcake nebari" is a thing because if you search it out you get images of ordinary bonsai roots and you get images of actual pancakes but not a single example of what I've seen on maple bonsai in the past.
I personally do NOT like it. To me it looks like the tree is melting.... meeeeeeltiiiiiing!
To each their own! I do find that the longer people do bonsai, the more they come around to appreciating it
To me bonsai is a “stylized” representation of nature. You call it “artistic”. I personally like fused nebari on bonsai trees and they show the large amount of time and effort that has gone into them.
I agree completely!
In my opinion it looks ugly und very unnatural.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but understanding pancake nebari is understanding age in Japanese maple roots
I respect what others like. In my opinion pancake nebari looks absolutely awful and i would never have such a tree i my collection. It looks very unnatural, just as the small sumo trunk trees does.
To each their own, do what you like!