The clone you are playing is incredibly realistic and so much more so than the Hammond sound my ELX-1 makes. Many years ago when I was doing tech work for Hammond there was a kit to add an additional 12AX7 to a B3. The purpose was to create an overdriven distortion sound. I cannot remember who made the kit but I did install some. I might even have one somewhere in my junk collection in my basement. I don't even know what is down there anymore. Anyhow; the distortion was a sound I did not care for but then again as a lounge organist I never played any kind of rock or heavy jazz. To me it sounded like the treble driver in the Leslie was blown. I replaced a lot of those. BTW- I do like your playing.
Viscount is so awesome!!!! I do see the real thing even with a leslie for less money from time to time, if one does not need to move the thing. You inspire me to fire up my RT3 :) In real life the tubey aspect (I'm sure you know) is in the Leslie amp, not the Hammond (which has tubes in it's preamp, but the real analog distortion is that real amp in the leslie.
In my comment just below I forgot to add the link to the only good sounding YT demo of a Nord Electro 5 or 6d B3 sounds. (Because the player, at blackhammond website; used Mackie Thump 12 and 18 powered subwoofers, drastically but effectively improving the thin, shrill B3 sound of Nord Electro 5 & 6d.) The link: ua-cam.com/video/gfarURI1z3s/v-deo.html
I did the same thing and it worked even with the organ sounds from my Kurzweil. The sound is slightly warmer and the extra power adds volume; even if you don't use the amp at half its volume.
I have the old Art Tube Thingy which this Behringer is a clone of... I used it in the 90s in my studio for almost everything... It's quite noisy when you use it as a microphone preamp. BUT. I liked the tube sound. I still do. And on line level signals the noise is not catastrophic.
I tried using one of those ART tube pres which is the same design as this one with my Rhodes years ago. All it does is add noise to the signal on clean. I didn't think it improved anything.These are cheap tube designs, they don't add the pleasing tube character that people think of. You would need something better and beefier designed like a Speakeasy 122. Anything with a wall wart can't properly run tubes, you need high voltages for tubes. For just adding distortion it's ok, it's just adding some basic analog distortion and grit, a FET distortion box might sound even better for doing that.
I use a early 1970s organ from charity shop and have my synthesiser keyboard plugged in. Sounds mighty and the Leslie speaker switches work as intended too.
Is it possible to use an real tube amplifier through fx send/return? (not a pedal) For example the Orange Micro Terror? How about the impedance? Or maybe use the headphone output instead of line output?
definitely interesting and tube preamps help, and as great as the Viscount is, there remains that digital-sounding top end, a certain frequency around 8k - only niggling detail in headphones
I got a big old organ from charity store for free which has 14 inch speakers, Leslie speakers and tubes. I put output of synthesiser/keyboard into organ and the sound is very big...
this preamp does support stereo (i think you might want to check) but in any case the DI of the organ that is on the FX send is mono, just like the real hammond!
@@WoodyPianoShack The MIC 100 is mono but maybe the fx loop inside the Legend cleverly stands between the tone generator (mono) and the Leslie fx (stereo) so that the output remains stereo, because the last fx in the chain is anyway the stereo Leslie
that's a nice feature that it lets you treat it before the leslie sim. it'd be way harder to do that with just a stereo out, not just bc you'd need stereo pedals but it'd be the wrong order if it hit the leslie before the overdrive.
agree, there are some specialist effects pedals that are designed to emulate tube overdrive specifically for organ, plugging in one of those would be interesting.
@@WoodyPianoShack I'm not deep into fx pedals but I have a Line6 M13 so I can bypass fx on most keyboards and use better stereo delays, mod fx and verbs. But even though it has stereo i/o, it goes to mono for most drive sections.
Can anyone help with what would be the best option if you need an amplifier for digital piano & Organ (one amp for both) but you have under 1000 euro ? I have Hammond XK3c & Roland RD700(old model) You can't really get the rotary speaker /Leslie sound for that can you? The XK3c doesn't have a very good Leslie effect. Does a Stereo amp Help the situation re the XK3c or not make any difference? Should I just go for a good quality mono Roland keyboard amp? any thoughts MUCH appreciated! thank you:)
You did the best sounding demos of Yamaha YC61 B3 sound and electric pianos on You Tube. This demo did warm the Legend up. But the Yamaha YC61 needs much more of your help in this method - because though YC61 has very good B3 organ sound if bypassing the cheesy leslie sim and using external Leslie (Leslie 3300, Neo Vent etc); the YC sounds much less rich and authentic-B3 fat than Viscount Legend - especially when using onboard leslie sim. My request is, grab an Aguilar Tone Hammer Preamp / Direct Box Bass Pedal from a music store; it has plus/minus 17 db boost or cut of mid, bass, and treble. Play the YC61 through it, with bass and low mids boosted, and treble cut just enough. Either that or obtain a Leslie 3300 that'll also do major fatness upgrade. Woody, have you ever played the more recent Nord models, Electro 5D or 6D, organ sounds? Per all online demos except one, these Electros do great piano and electric piano, but the B3 and other sounds are seriously thin, shrill. Such as this demo: Nord Electro 6D Full Demo with Chris Martirano ua-cam.com/video/jzoy7vwnnR8/v-deo.html The only good sounding Electro 5 or 6 organ demo is this one by blackhammond where the Electro 5d organ sounds super good. Why? because he informed me that he was using Mackie Thump 12 and 18 inch powered subwoofers, which have huge bass boost, in that demo. The Mackie speakers totally revamped the Electro 5d organ sound. If you have to get that drastic to fix it, maybe the Electro 5 and 6 are not good B3 player options.
glad you liked my demos, thanks. in answer to your question, i have owned the E4, which has exact same tonewheel model as all later Electros, so very familiar with the sound. imho, nord has fallen behind the competition in terms of sound, features and tweakability of their organ models. last update to their sound engine was 10 years ago or thereabouts when they released C2D. they still have a good and very useful sound though, just not as authentic´as the newer hammonds, crumar and viscount.
I’ve been wondering if I want to go for a tube based pedal, preamp, or Eurorack Erica synths something. Also I forget which brand and model, but I’m pretty sure there’s a power tube pedal somewhere, as opposed to preamp.
i'm not an expert compared to the real thing, but find the viscount much more detailed. realistic and inspiring to play. the viscount and crumar are a step above.
Amazing, can I ask how do you record the video - what sound are we hearing? Is it DI plus a camera mic, it really makes it sound real in a way pure DI doesn't because of the key sound!
good observation daniel, i record line output in stereo to my usb soundcard, then when editing the video, i mix in just a tiny bit of the camera mic, maybe -15db lower. this is capturing the key noise plus the sound of my speaker cabs. this adds a bit of life and realism to the sound, as if you were in the room listening with me, without that, it sounds sterile, but the high quality line recording as the majority of what you hear.
With something like the B3-X which specializes in "exceptional" effects, would something like a real tube even be beneficial? I know with "really good programming", many classic effects products have been well captured in the soft synth format. By the way, if you haven't already checked it out, the VB3 II organ became available for iPhone this week for only $14! Love it. Take a half way decent B3 with you anywhere.
i noticed the release, doesn't seem to be available on my app store yet, also not sure about the connectivity. VB3 is one of the very best, more than half way decent, but I prefer to run my plugins on the PC.
@@WoodyPianoShack I forget for some reason Apple chooses to have different offering in their UK App store. Maybe it will be offered there in the future. I agree I prefer using the PC. At $14, you could just have this too. It's great to have on the road, for backup at a gig, etc. I use my iPhone synths & 25 key Oxygen 8 keyboard on planes it's so easy to transport.
Thanks for this inspiration, Woody. I‘ll try this little beast with my MAG organ. It has a built-in Mini-Vent and an external Vent 2 with overdrive attached, but this thing definitely sounds better. However, I was afraid of the price and looked it up: 44 €! 😃 This is a no-brainer!
Update after 1 day of experimenting with the MIC100: Fantastic! 🤩 Had to crank up the organ volume (pre-send) more than usual, but now it is perfect, i.e. the overdrive can be adjusted over the whole range of the preamp’s gain knob. The Vent’s overdrive is completely switched off.
very kind of you to say so and encouragin. i only really know a few riffs and can't put together a repertoire of entire songs, but yeah, more noodling to come, that I can guarantee! :)
The overdrive from which Nord? For instance the OD in the Electro 3 and Stage 2 is very different from the OD in later models like Electro 6 and Stage 3. I have previously had an Electro 3 and later a Stage 2. Now I have the Stage 3 Compact, and I must say I often miss the OD in the Stage 2.... :/ The OD in the Legend (I have the Legend Live) is not the best, but the FX loop makes all the difference :) and was actually quite a big reason why I chose the Legend over some of the competing brands. ...and the FX loop of the Legend sits just where you want it - after chorus/vibrato and expression pedal, amd before the overdrive, reverb and Leslie simulator - just brilliant! :D
Woody, thanks for the upload but let's not get too carried away with the Homeopathic valve love, especially over MP4 It's sort of OK for the price but if it's anything like the MIC200 then almost the whole circuit path is solid-state. u4500 Op Amps, transistors etc. The poor 12AX7 has a shameful 48 v plate voltage, but at least it's a cathode follower. The main ins, outs and filters are all *solid state.* My V Machine running a vst sounds better.
@@WoodyPianoShack pretty sure you'd get a similar kind of sound/vibe using a Tube Screamer or Boss OD-1/DS-1 style pedal Edit: also, "tube circuitry" part was actually important and it seems like you didn't understand. 99% of the time, sound is not going through the tube. At the very end, it goes through the tube, set to not introduce any gain, just replicate what's coming into it. Unless the tube is broken, it would produce almost no "tube warmth".
I'm sure woody will upload videos about synth keyboards in the future (and the last video with a synth was not long ago). He's trying out an organ as well (which is great I think).
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
More organ?
The Piano Shack is gradually becoming the Organ Shack in 2021. This pleases me.
Cheers!
The clone you are playing is incredibly realistic and so much more so than the Hammond sound my ELX-1 makes. Many years ago when I was doing tech work for Hammond there was a kit to add an additional 12AX7 to a B3. The purpose was to create an overdriven distortion sound. I cannot remember who made the kit but I did install some. I might even have one somewhere in my junk collection in my basement. I don't even know what is down there anymore. Anyhow; the distortion was a sound I did not care for but then again as a lounge organist I never played any kind of rock or heavy jazz. To me it sounded like the treble driver in the Leslie was blown. I replaced a lot of those. BTW- I do like your playing.
This makes everything slund better
Jimmy Smith gang representing!
Thank you!!! I love my Behringer tube preamp. I tried it with my VR09 and Leslie 122 also with my Neo Vent.
Viscount is so awesome!!!! I do see the real thing even with a leslie for less money from time to time, if one does not need to move the thing. You inspire me to fire up my RT3 :) In real life the tubey aspect (I'm sure you know) is in the Leslie amp, not the Hammond (which has tubes in it's preamp, but the real analog distortion is that real amp in the leslie.
Got to remember to put that thing in your gig bag.
Now you have recreated the b3-x with its stomp pedal for distortion. Woody is getting hooked on the Hammond thing. Organ players are a special breed
In my comment just below I forgot to add the link to the only good sounding YT demo of a Nord Electro 5 or 6d B3 sounds. (Because the player, at blackhammond website; used Mackie Thump 12 and 18 powered subwoofers, drastically but effectively improving the thin, shrill B3 sound of Nord Electro 5 & 6d.) The link:
ua-cam.com/video/gfarURI1z3s/v-deo.html
I did the same thing and it worked even with the organ sounds from my Kurzweil. The sound is slightly warmer and the extra power adds volume; even if you don't use the amp at half its volume.
I have the old Art Tube Thingy which this Behringer is a clone of... I used it in the 90s in my studio for almost everything... It's quite noisy when you use it as a microphone preamp. BUT. I liked the tube sound. I still do. And on line level signals the noise is not catastrophic.
it's a useful bit of kit for many applications!
I tried using one of those ART tube pres which is the same design as this one with my Rhodes years ago. All it does is add noise to the signal on clean. I didn't think it improved anything.These are cheap tube designs, they don't add the pleasing tube character that people think of. You would need something better and beefier designed like a Speakeasy 122. Anything with a wall wart can't properly run tubes, you need high voltages for tubes. For just adding distortion it's ok, it's just adding some basic analog distortion and grit, a FET distortion box might sound even better for doing that.
I use a early 1970s organ from charity shop and have my synthesiser keyboard plugged in. Sounds mighty and the Leslie speaker switches work as intended too.
Hearing some "Gimme Some Lovin'" in there!
Is it possible to use an real tube amplifier through fx send/return? (not a pedal) For example the Orange Micro Terror?
How about the impedance? Or maybe use the headphone output instead of line output?
definitely interesting and tube preamps help, and as great as the Viscount is, there remains that digital-sounding top end, a certain frequency around 8k - only niggling detail in headphones
I got a big old organ from charity store for free which has 14 inch speakers, Leslie speakers and tubes. I put output of synthesiser/keyboard into organ and the sound is very big...
Wow..more presence! suppose you need two of theese preamps to maintain stereo leslie output..PS: no I read it has fx send/return, nice!!
this preamp does support stereo (i think you might want to check) but in any case the DI of the organ that is on the FX send is mono, just like the real hammond!
@@WoodyPianoShack this preamp is mono
@@WoodyPianoShack The MIC 100 is mono but maybe the fx loop inside the Legend cleverly stands between the tone generator (mono) and the Leslie fx (stereo) so that the output remains stereo, because the last fx in the chain is anyway the stereo Leslie
that's a nice feature that it lets you treat it before the leslie sim. it'd be way harder to do that with just a stereo out, not just bc you'd need stereo pedals but it'd be the wrong order if it hit the leslie before the overdrive.
agree, there are some specialist effects pedals that are designed to emulate tube overdrive specifically for organ, plugging in one of those would be interesting.
@@WoodyPianoShack I'm not deep into fx pedals but I have a Line6 M13 so I can bypass fx on most keyboards and use better stereo delays, mod fx and verbs. But even though it has stereo i/o, it goes to mono for most drive sections.
Can anyone help with what would be the best option if you need an amplifier for digital piano & Organ (one amp for both) but you have under 1000 euro ? I have Hammond XK3c & Roland RD700(old model) You can't really get the rotary speaker /Leslie sound for that can you? The XK3c doesn't have a very good Leslie effect. Does a Stereo amp Help the situation re the XK3c or not make any difference? Should I just go for a good quality mono Roland keyboard amp? any thoughts MUCH appreciated! thank you:)
have you checked my video about my affordable cmplification setups? "i bought the cheapest..."
You did the best sounding demos of Yamaha YC61 B3 sound and electric pianos on You Tube. This demo did warm the Legend up. But the Yamaha YC61 needs much more of your help in this method - because though YC61 has very good B3 organ sound if bypassing the cheesy leslie sim and using external Leslie (Leslie 3300, Neo Vent etc); the YC sounds much less rich and authentic-B3 fat than Viscount Legend - especially when using onboard leslie sim. My request is, grab an Aguilar Tone Hammer Preamp / Direct Box Bass Pedal from a music store; it has plus/minus 17 db boost or cut of mid, bass, and treble. Play the YC61 through it, with bass and low mids boosted, and treble cut just enough. Either that or obtain a Leslie 3300 that'll also do major fatness upgrade. Woody, have you ever played the more recent Nord models, Electro 5D or 6D, organ sounds? Per all online demos except one, these Electros do great piano and electric piano, but the B3 and other sounds are seriously thin, shrill. Such as this demo: Nord Electro 6D Full Demo with Chris Martirano
ua-cam.com/video/jzoy7vwnnR8/v-deo.html
The only good sounding Electro 5 or 6 organ demo is this one by blackhammond where the Electro 5d organ sounds super good. Why? because he informed me that he was using Mackie Thump 12 and 18 inch powered subwoofers, which have huge bass boost, in that demo. The Mackie speakers totally revamped the Electro 5d organ sound. If you have to get that drastic to fix it, maybe the Electro 5 and 6 are not good B3 player options.
glad you liked my demos, thanks. in answer to your question, i have owned the E4, which has exact same tonewheel model as all later Electros, so very familiar with the sound. imho, nord has fallen behind the competition in terms of sound, features and tweakability of their organ models. last update to their sound engine was 10 years ago or thereabouts when they released C2D. they still have a good and very useful sound though, just not as authentic´as the newer hammonds, crumar and viscount.
I’ve been wondering if I want to go for a tube based pedal, preamp, or Eurorack Erica synths something. Also I forget which brand and model, but I’m pretty sure there’s a power tube pedal somewhere, as opposed to preamp.
i'm not sure how you would incorporate a power tube, as they push very high voltages that are designed for pushing speakers!
Woody do you like the organ sound better on the Nord or Viscount?
i'm not an expert compared to the real thing, but find the viscount much more detailed. realistic and inspiring to play. the viscount and crumar are a step above.
Hi Woody! I saw some affordable organ modules whilst browsing on the Thomann site, any chance of you trying to get hold of one for a review?
which ones?
Amazing, can I ask how do you record the video - what sound are we hearing? Is it DI plus a camera mic, it really makes it sound real in a way pure DI doesn't because of the key sound!
and do you pan the L and R channels to the max?
good observation daniel, i record line output in stereo to my usb soundcard, then when editing the video, i mix in just a tiny bit of the camera mic, maybe -15db lower. this is capturing the key noise plus the sound of my speaker cabs. this adds a bit of life and realism to the sound, as if you were in the room listening with me, without that, it sounds sterile, but the high quality line recording as the majority of what you hear.
With something like the B3-X which specializes in "exceptional" effects, would something like a real tube even be beneficial? I know with "really good programming", many classic effects products have been well captured in the soft synth format.
By the way, if you haven't already checked it out, the VB3 II organ became available for iPhone this week for only $14! Love it. Take a half way decent B3 with you anywhere.
i noticed the release, doesn't seem to be available on my app store yet, also not sure about the connectivity. VB3 is one of the very best, more than half way decent, but I prefer to run my plugins on the PC.
@@WoodyPianoShack I forget for some reason Apple chooses to have different offering in their UK App store. Maybe it will be offered there in the future.
I agree I prefer using the PC. At $14, you could just have this too. It's great to have on the road, for backup at a gig, etc. I use my iPhone synths & 25 key Oxygen 8 keyboard on planes it's so easy to transport.
You should try it in the direct input as opposed to the loop.
Thanks for this inspiration, Woody. I‘ll try this little beast with my MAG organ. It has a built-in Mini-Vent and an external Vent 2 with overdrive attached, but this thing definitely sounds better. However, I was afraid of the price and looked it up: 44 €! 😃
This is a no-brainer!
Update after 1 day of experimenting with the MIC100:
Fantastic! 🤩
Had to crank up the organ volume (pre-send) more than usual, but now it is perfect, i.e. the overdrive can be adjusted over the whole range of the preamp’s gain knob. The Vent’s overdrive is completely switched off.
Viscount Legend: now with teeth!
How about a video of just playin organ for a bit? You are making tons of progress becoming an organ player. Time to show off.
very kind of you to say so and encouragin. i only really know a few riffs and can't put together a repertoire of entire songs, but yeah, more noodling to come, that I can guarantee! :)
Hammond doesn't lie to their customers like VISCOUNT does. Huge difference in Hammond & Viscount.
What do you mean ?
I'll take Nord's Distortion model over Behringer any day.
The overdrive from which Nord? For instance the OD in the Electro 3 and Stage 2 is very different from the OD in later models like Electro 6 and Stage 3.
I have previously had an Electro 3 and later a Stage 2. Now I have the Stage 3 Compact, and I must say I often miss the OD in the Stage 2.... :/
The OD in the Legend (I have the Legend Live) is not the best, but the FX loop makes all the difference :) and was actually quite a big reason why I chose the Legend over some of the competing brands.
...and the FX loop of the Legend sits just where you want it - after chorus/vibrato and expression pedal, amd before the overdrive, reverb and Leslie simulator - just brilliant! :D
Woody, thanks for the upload but let's not get too carried away with the Homeopathic valve love, especially over MP4
It's sort of OK for the price but if it's anything like the MIC200 then almost the whole circuit path is solid-state. u4500 Op Amps, transistors etc.
The poor 12AX7 has a shameful 48 v plate voltage, but at least it's a cathode follower. The main ins, outs and filters are all *solid state.*
My V Machine running a vst sounds better.
i was waiting for the comment about the voltage and tube circuitry , it was coming, thanks for putting us out of our misery :D
@@WoodyPianoShack My pleasure :-)
@@WoodyPianoShack pretty sure you'd get a similar kind of sound/vibe using a Tube Screamer or Boss OD-1/DS-1 style pedal
Edit: also, "tube circuitry" part was actually important and it seems like you didn't understand. 99% of the time, sound is not going through the tube. At the very end, it goes through the tube, set to not introduce any gain, just replicate what's coming into it. Unless the tube is broken, it would produce almost no "tube warmth".
The Ferrofish B4000+ was the one that piqued my interest the most
using the Ventilator in addition, it's a good clone, additional connection to this 12AX7, would be much better
At first i subs you for the old synth material,now you have change, im sorry to unsubs you
sorry to see you go, bye!
To be fair, this sort of organ is a synth, and based on a relatively old synth at that.
I'm sure woody will upload videos about synth keyboards in the future (and the last video with a synth was not long ago). He's trying out an organ as well (which is great I think).