Not sure what regulator(the new brown reg) that is on the LP tank, The normal regulator would be a hi press, maybe 10 psi, and then at the genset, a secondary reg would drop down the press the 15" or so. The gas piping needs to be sized accordingly.
Thanks for the demo my generator is hard starting to notice that if I choke the air going in it starts easier. It’s propane for fuel and I’ll have to check the pressure.
Hey Satterfield Electric. Thanks for checking out the video. I’ve never done a conversion on a generator . After reading your post I was thinking that with the conversion kit there should be instructions regarding the pressure that is required. Maybe you haven’t ordered it yet. As an example where I live the natural gas pressure after the gas companies service regulator is 7 inches water column. Since this is the pressure required to run my personal generator (not the one in the video) I’m good. Before you order your kit you would need to know the gas pressure after the service regulator. 7 inches water column is very common but should be checked. You can use a manometer or contact the gas provider for this information. Once you know this pressure combined with your generator model number you can order the correct kit. Every install is different. The number of fittings, valves, length and size of pipe all add up to reduce the flow of gas. There is a maximum pressure loss allowed. Undersized hookups can cause problems. I did go online to look at various suppliers of conversion kits. They all seem to be detailed in what they are selling and offer support. I hope this helps. Roger
I'm late to the party but per Generac: Required fuel pressure for natural gas is 5 inches to 7 inches water column (0.18 to 0.25 psi); and for liquid propane, 10 inches to 12 inches of water column (0.36 to 0.43 psi). NOTE : All pipe sizing, construction and layout must comply with NFPA 54 for natural gas applications and NFPA 58 for liquid propane applications. Once the generator is installed, verify that the fuel pressure NEVER drops below four (4) inches water column for natural gas or 10 inches water column for liquid propane
Hey garysisti2463. I’m happy that the video was helpful. Gas pressure for these generators is an important test. They are designed to operate at a specific pressure.I hope it all works out for you. It’s a good basic test to see what’s going on. Thanks for watching and posting. Roger
Hi Blade Runner. Thanks for checking out the video. When you are having hard starting issues always start with the basics to rule out the easy stuff. Check fuel pressure, spark plugs, air filters , valve lash, battery condition, battery cables negative and positive. Sometimes critters have made nests in the air intake. Ants can be a problem also. Take your time and go systematically through the process. Resist the urge to start replacing parts. You only get lucky once in a while. Good luck. Roger
Hi Blade Runner. I had another thought. When starting the generator is there any movement on the choke plate? If blocking the intake helps maybe the plate is stuck or the linkage is the problem.
Hi, The Airboss1955. Thanks for taking the time to check out the video. Everything is exactly the same for natural gas. Check your manual to see what is the required gas pressure for your model. Checking gas pressure is an excellent diagnostic tool to give you direction when solving a problem. Also, it can be used when doing your regular maintenance. Gas pressure could be checked when changing spark plugs and oil. This way you can get a bench mark when the generator is running properly. Roger
Thanks, expecting new 22k Generac shortly, not sure how natural gas from my house will react with Gen set. Gas company is installing new larger gas meter on house so will see. Thanks again
Sounds exciting. I was looking at the installation manual for my 11 KW GENERAC. The pressure for natural gas should be between 3.5-7 inches water column. I don’t think it would be different for yours but always check. Just make sure the gas line is properly sized. This is one place not to cut corners. If it is undersized a brand new unit will not function properly. There are tables in the installation manual. The authority having jurisdiction may use the regulation adopted by the region you are located in for the installation. Every area has its unique rules. The calculation is based on gas pressure, length of piping and the btu’s that are required for the generator and other gas appliances in the system. This is where you need an experienced installer to ensure a smooth installation. Good luck.Roger
@@repairitdontwreckit4257 Per my Generac shop manual for 8-20kw: Recommended fuels should have a Btu content of at least 1,000 Btus per cubic foot for natural gas; or at least 2,520 Btus per cubic foot for LP gas. Ask the fuel supplier for the Btu content of the fuel. Required fuel pressure for natural gas is 5 inches to 7 inches water column (0.18 to 0.25 psi); and for liquid propane, 10 inches to 12 inches of water column (0.36 to 0.43 psi). NOTE : All pipe sizing, construction and layout must comply with NFPA 54 for natural gas applications and NFPA 58 for liquid propane applications. Once the generator is installed, verify that the fuel pressure NEVER drops below four (4) inches water column for natural gas or 10 inches water column for liquid propane.
Great video! Curious as to why you checked pressure first at the generator and then second after the flex house which was just a few feet away? Where you trying to see if there was an issue with the flex hose? Also, is there any operational benefit of the generator to have the secondary regulator closer to the generator vs maybe 10-15ft away?
@@ejn967 I was trying to figure out if the gas regulator on the generator was the problem. These valves work on the vacuum from the engine. I felt it was best to start testing at the generator and work back to the propane tanks. Gas pressure was fluctuating at the generator so I isolated it . Now I was getting fluctuations with the generator disconnected so it made sense to go the regulators at the propane tanks. There was only piping between the gas shutoff at the generator and the regulators at the propane tanks. The next logical spot for fluctuation would be the regulator’s on the propane tanks. The regulators were the responsibility of the propane supplier. From memory there was an issue on the propane suppliers equipment that was corrected. I was not there for that repair but I’m pretty sure the problem was one of the regulators. Going through the system systematically gave me the best chance to diagnose the problem. My experience is with natural gas systems. Piping that is sized correctly with the proper pressures at the gas meter will do the job. The tables for pipe sizing are easy to use. For propane there’s no difference in the thinking. I really don’t have the experience to provide an answer for your second question. I do know that on propane set ups it important to have a certain length of piping from the secondary regulator to the generator. If it is too short it can create starting and related fuel issues. I would always size piping by the book. Short cuts here are not worth it. If your having problems and the piping is proper it eliminates a lot of guessing as to what is wrong. Generally mistakes are made on the piping installation. If you’re going with propane I would think the supplier would have the experience on which regulators to use and the best location for them in the system. I wish I could offer more on the propane side. I found checking gas pressures is fairly easy and can tell you a lot about what is going on. It’s really the same concept as a multimeter for testing electrical stuff. I hope I my answer made sense to you. Thanks for watching and posting. Roger
Great video for checking gas pressure, I bought a home with a generac 13kw natural gas generator with a GT990 engine. I put a new battery in it and after numerous crank sequences it started up. My problem is that the generator backfires and idles kind of rough. I checked oil and spark plugs which are fine, do you think it could be fuel pressure? Should I have the utility company come out and check fuel pressure for me? The gas line feeds my furnace, water heater, cooktop and my generator at the last item in the gas line. Any help will be appreciated.
Hi lucerosells. I think it’s a good idea to check the fuel pressure at the gas meter as a start. From there you can check it at the generator. If you can see the most of the piping you could double check the size of the gas piping compared to the appliances that it is serving. While it’s not hard to do there is a procedure that needs to be followed to correctly size the piping. Probably someone on utube or on the web has posted how to do it. Make sure any shutoff valves in the system are fully open. Since you have no history of the system this is the way I would start tracking down the problem. On the fuel regulator in the generator you can also check the gas pressure when the unit is running and off. The owners manual I believe has the location of the test ports. Also the repair manual for your unit can be ordered on line. I’ve ordered one for my generator. It is pretty good and has a ton of information. I thought was well put together. You need some basic tools including a multimeter and a manometer. Next you should check the valve lash. This seems to be a maintenance item that is usually neglected. Make sure the spark plugs are the correct part number and gapped to specifications. Look at the air filter. Remove it to see if there is anything downstream blocking the air flow. Have a close look at the wiring. Double check all the connectors. Some can come loose or maybe another person messed around and didn’t put things back together properly. Is there a lot of rust around the fuel regulator? On some models this can be an issue, besides being dangerous. Your symptoms can be caused by an electric problem This is where the manual is necessary as it gives you different values that are to be expected when testing. To this point the only money you have spent is on some tools and repair manual. If you can’t confirm something is defective don’t replace it. Things like spark plugs, air filters, oil filters, batteries are maintenance and part of owning a generator. While most of this is not hard to do it takes time and some knowledge of how these things work. There’s a lot you can do without getting into trouble. The gas pressure testing requires taking stuff apart. If you never done before it could be tricky. Only you know what your comfort level is. There’s an excellent website gentekpower.com. The forum is excellent. There’s many post with people having the same issues as you.
Hi lucerosells. Looks like I touched the wrong button. For the symptoms you are have there’s a lot of things that can cause it. That’s why you need to work through in a logical way in your testing. Confirming good or bad results. I hope this helps. Thanks for watching and posting comments. Roger
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE REQUIRED WATER COLUMN TO OPERATE A GENERAC PORTABLE 17500 THAT HAS A CONVERSION KIT THAT HAS CHANGED IT FROM GASOLINE TO NATURAL GAS.GREAT VIDEO, THANKS.
I have a Kohler 27KW with a GM Vortec 4-cylinder engine. It's running on Propane. Been working fine for years, but the last start was not good. Backfired through the intake several times, then it started but was not running well enough to reach the proper speed and the system shut it down. I pulled the plugs and did a compression test and all was ok. So I was able to get it started with some ether, and it ran fine under load for about an hour. A couple weeks later it did the same thing with backfiring and not starting. Does this sound like a fuel flow issue? Im not sure if I should call the gas company or a genset repair company.
Hi, maximum 25. I would check the valve lash. Even though the compression is good its worth looking at. Check the gas pressure at the unit when it’s running and turned off. These are easy things to do that only require test equipment. You want to get some direction as to what is the problem. Look at the air filter to see if it’s not plugged up. It sounds intermittent so a fuel regulator could be the problem. Your testing should help to determine if it is. If the gas company will check the pressures without charging you I would get them out. Have a look around the air intake. Mice or rodents may have created a nest or chewed up some wires. Even though it sounds like it’s fuel related other issues can cause the fuel problem. I’m not familiar with this engine. There probably is some sort of choke for cold starting. That needs to be checked for smooth operation and functionality. I hope this gives you some ideas on what to start looking at. Don’t change anything that you cannot confirm is defective. It tends to get expensive. Thanks for checking out the video. Roger
Hey moises lemus. Thanks for checking out the video. I need to know if it’s natural gas or propane and the length of piping that you are planning to install. Also the installation manual that comes with your machine has a chart inside to give you some direction also. However if you give me some informational I can look it up. Another piece of information that is required is what pressure is the utility providing if it’s natural gas. Thanks
Hi Eastman Research. I like this manometer. It’s easy to read and the plastic case keeps it clean and safe when in storage. Good luck with your testing. There can be a few things for hard starting. You have to rule out the basics which is extremely important in any diagnostic journey. Roger
Hello, I have a Generac 12kw. It starts but only runs 10-15 seconds and shuts down. No lights are on the display. y problemIf I leave the switch at manual it will keep starting run for a short period of time and shut down. Could this be a gas supply problem. Any suggestions?
Hi Juma Abdiroglu. Thanks for checking out the video. Sorry I didn’t catch your question till to day. The fact it runs and shuts down I would look at the safety items first. My first thought is to test the oil pressure switch. It is fairly easy to check. There’s only two wires connected to it. There are two ways they can operate. The controller either recognizes it as an open or closed switch. When the units starts oil pressure is developed and either opens or closes the switch. This information is sent to the controller or the circuit is interrupted to prevent damage to the engine. With out a model number I really can’t offer much more. Also check the level of the oil. Sometimes it is the simple thing’s . Gas pressure could be an issue but start with the easy things first. I hope this helps to get you started. Roger
Hey, @StanGenerX. The corrosion while it looked bad wasn’t affecting the power to start yet. I did a video on cleaning up the battery posts with baking soda. At that point in time the corrosion still was superficial and hadn’t made its way between the connector and the battery post. Thanks for posting and reviewing the video. Roger
Not sure what regulator(the new brown reg) that is on the LP tank, The normal regulator would be a hi press, maybe 10 psi, and then at the genset, a secondary reg would drop down the press the 15" or so. The gas piping needs to be sized accordingly.
Hey Sonja. Thanks for checking out my video. I appreciate your comments. Roger
Thanks for the demo my generator is hard starting to notice that if I choke the air going in it starts easier. It’s propane for fuel and I’ll have to check the pressure.
Hey Satterfield Electric. Thanks for checking out the video. I’ve never done a conversion on a generator . After reading your post I was thinking that with the conversion kit there should be instructions regarding the pressure that is required. Maybe you haven’t ordered it yet. As an example where I live the natural gas pressure after the gas companies service regulator is 7 inches water column. Since this is the pressure required to run my personal generator (not the one in the video) I’m good. Before you order your kit you would need to know the gas pressure after the service regulator. 7 inches water column is very common but should be checked. You can use a manometer or contact the gas provider for this information. Once you know this pressure combined with your generator model number you can order the correct kit. Every install is different. The number of fittings, valves, length and size of pipe all add up to reduce the flow of gas. There is a maximum pressure loss allowed. Undersized hookups can cause problems. I did go online to look at various suppliers of conversion kits. They all seem to be detailed in what they are selling and offer support. I hope this helps.
Roger
I'm late to the party but per Generac: Required fuel pressure for natural gas is 5 inches to 7 inches water column (0.18 to 0.25 psi); and for liquid propane, 10 inches to 12 inches of water column (0.36 to 0.43 psi). NOTE : All pipe sizing, construction and layout must comply with NFPA 54 for natural gas applications and NFPA 58 for liquid propane applications. Once the generator is installed, verify that the fuel pressure NEVER drops below four (4) inches water column for natural gas or 10 inches water column for liquid propane
Well done and very helpful. Thank you.
Hey garysisti2463. I’m happy that the video was helpful. Gas pressure for these generators is an important test. They are designed to operate at a specific pressure.I hope it all works out for you. It’s a good basic test to see what’s going on. Thanks for watching and posting. Roger
Hi Blade Runner. Thanks for checking out the video. When you are having hard starting issues always start with the basics to rule out the easy stuff. Check fuel pressure, spark plugs, air filters , valve lash, battery condition, battery cables negative and positive. Sometimes critters have made nests in the air intake. Ants can be a problem also. Take your time and go systematically through the process. Resist the urge to start replacing parts. You only get lucky once in a while. Good luck. Roger
Hi Blade Runner. I had another thought. When starting the generator is there any movement on the choke plate? If blocking the intake helps maybe the plate is stuck or the linkage is the problem.
Great video, thank you
Glad you liked it! I hope it helped you solve a problem. Thanks for watching and posting. Roger
Great video , was wondering if you could do the same gas check for natural gas Generac.
Hi, The Airboss1955. Thanks for taking the time to check out the video. Everything is exactly the same for natural gas. Check your manual to see what is the required gas pressure for your model. Checking gas pressure is an excellent diagnostic tool to give you direction when solving a problem. Also, it can be used when doing your regular maintenance. Gas pressure could be checked when changing spark plugs and oil. This way you can get a bench mark when the generator is running properly. Roger
Thanks, expecting new 22k Generac shortly, not sure how natural gas from my house will react with Gen set. Gas company is installing new larger gas meter on house so will see. Thanks again
Sounds exciting. I was looking at the installation manual for my 11 KW GENERAC. The pressure for natural gas should be between 3.5-7 inches water column. I don’t think it would be different for yours but always check. Just make sure the gas line is properly sized. This is one place not to cut corners. If it is undersized a brand new unit will not function properly. There are tables in the installation manual. The authority having jurisdiction may use the regulation adopted by the region you are located in for the installation. Every area has its unique rules. The calculation is based on gas pressure, length of piping and the btu’s that are required for the generator and other gas appliances in the system. This is where you need an experienced installer to ensure a smooth installation. Good luck.Roger
@@repairitdontwreckit4257 Per my Generac shop manual for 8-20kw: Recommended fuels should have a Btu content of at least 1,000 Btus per cubic foot for natural gas; or at least 2,520 Btus per cubic foot for LP gas. Ask the fuel supplier for the Btu content of the fuel.
Required fuel pressure for natural gas is 5 inches to 7 inches water column (0.18 to 0.25 psi); and for liquid
propane, 10 inches to 12 inches of water column (0.36 to 0.43 psi).
NOTE : All pipe sizing, construction and layout must comply with NFPA 54 for natural gas applications and NFPA 58 for liquid propane applications. Once the generator is installed, verify that the fuel pressure NEVER drops below four (4) inches water column for natural gas or 10 inches water column for liquid propane.
Great video! Curious as to why you checked pressure first at the generator and then second after the flex house which was just a few feet away? Where you trying to see if there was an issue with the flex hose? Also, is there any operational benefit of the generator to have the secondary regulator closer to the generator vs maybe 10-15ft away?
@@ejn967 I was trying to figure out if the gas regulator on the generator was the problem. These valves work on the vacuum from the engine. I felt it was best to start testing at the generator and work back to the propane tanks. Gas pressure was fluctuating at the generator so I isolated it . Now I was getting fluctuations with the generator disconnected so it made sense to go the regulators at the propane tanks. There was only piping between the gas shutoff at the generator and the regulators at the propane tanks. The next logical spot for fluctuation would be the regulator’s on the propane tanks. The regulators were the responsibility of the propane supplier. From memory there was an issue on the propane suppliers equipment that was corrected. I was not there for that repair but I’m pretty sure the problem was one of the regulators. Going through the system systematically gave me the best chance to diagnose the problem.
My experience is with natural gas systems. Piping that is sized correctly with the proper pressures at the gas meter will do the job. The tables for pipe sizing are easy to use. For propane there’s no difference in the thinking. I really don’t have the experience to provide an answer for your second question. I do know that on propane set ups it important to have a certain length of piping from the secondary regulator to the generator. If it is too short it can create starting and related fuel issues. I would always size piping by the book. Short cuts here are not worth it. If your having problems and the piping is proper it eliminates a lot of guessing as to what is wrong. Generally mistakes are made on the piping installation. If you’re going with propane I would think the supplier would have the experience on which regulators to use and the best location for them in the system. I wish I could offer more on the propane side.
I found checking gas pressures is fairly easy and can tell you a lot about what is going on. It’s really the same concept as a multimeter for testing electrical stuff. I hope I my answer made sense to you. Thanks for watching and posting.
Roger
Great video for checking gas pressure, I bought a home with a generac 13kw natural gas generator with a GT990 engine. I put a new battery in it and after numerous crank sequences it started up. My problem is that the generator backfires and idles kind of rough. I checked oil and spark plugs which are fine, do you think it could be fuel pressure? Should I have the utility company come out and check fuel pressure for me? The gas line feeds my furnace, water heater, cooktop and my generator at the last item in the gas line. Any help will be appreciated.
Hi lucerosells. I think it’s a good idea to check the fuel pressure at the gas meter as a start. From there you can check it at the generator. If you can see the most of the piping you could double check the size of the gas piping compared to the appliances that it is serving. While it’s not hard to do there is a procedure that needs to be followed to correctly size the piping. Probably someone on utube or on the web has posted how to do it. Make sure any shutoff valves in the system are fully open. Since you have no history of the system this is the way I would start tracking down the problem. On the fuel regulator in the generator you can also check the gas pressure when the unit is running and off. The owners manual I believe has the location of the test ports. Also the repair manual for your unit can be ordered on line. I’ve ordered one for my generator. It is pretty good and has a ton of information. I thought was well put together. You need some basic tools including a multimeter and a manometer. Next you should check the valve lash. This seems to be a maintenance item that is usually neglected. Make sure the spark plugs are the correct part number and gapped to specifications. Look at the air filter. Remove it to see if there is anything downstream blocking the air flow. Have a close look at the wiring. Double check all the connectors. Some can come loose or maybe another person messed around and didn’t put things back together properly. Is there a lot of rust around the fuel regulator? On some models this can be an issue, besides being dangerous. Your symptoms can be caused by an electric problem This is where the manual is necessary as it gives you different values that are to be expected when testing. To this point the only money you have spent is on some tools and repair manual. If you can’t confirm something is defective don’t replace it. Things like spark plugs, air filters, oil filters, batteries are maintenance and part of owning a generator. While most of this is not hard to do it takes time and some knowledge of how these things work. There’s a lot you can do without getting into trouble. The gas pressure testing requires taking stuff apart. If you never done before it could be tricky. Only you know what your comfort level is. There’s an excellent website gentekpower.com. The forum is excellent. There’s many post with people having the same issues as you.
Hi lucerosells. Looks like I touched the wrong button. For the symptoms you are have there’s a lot of things that can cause it. That’s why you need to work through in a logical way in your testing. Confirming good or bad results. I hope this helps. Thanks for watching and posting comments. Roger
Quite clear and concise. Thank you.
That's a great thing to know. Thank you for sharing
I’m glad it worked out for you. Thanks for posting and viewing. Roger
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE REQUIRED WATER COLUMN TO OPERATE A GENERAC PORTABLE 17500 THAT HAS A CONVERSION KIT THAT HAS CHANGED IT FROM GASOLINE TO NATURAL GAS.GREAT VIDEO, THANKS.
Good job explaining.
Thanks. Roger
I have a Kohler 27KW with a GM Vortec 4-cylinder engine. It's running on Propane. Been working fine for years, but the last start was not good. Backfired through the intake several times, then it started but was not running well enough to reach the proper speed and the system shut it down. I pulled the plugs and did a compression test and all was ok. So I was able to get it started with some ether, and it ran fine under load for about an hour. A couple weeks later it did the same thing with backfiring and not starting. Does this sound like a fuel flow issue? Im not sure if I should call the gas company or a genset repair company.
Hi, maximum 25. I would check the valve lash. Even though the compression is good its worth looking at. Check the gas pressure at the unit when it’s running and turned off. These are easy things to do that only require test equipment. You want to get some direction as to what is the problem. Look at the air filter to see if it’s not plugged up. It sounds intermittent so a fuel regulator could be the problem. Your testing should help to determine if it is. If the gas company will check the pressures without charging you I would get them out. Have a look around the air intake. Mice or rodents may have created a nest or chewed up some wires. Even though it sounds like it’s fuel related other issues can cause the fuel problem. I’m not familiar with this engine. There probably is some sort of choke for cold starting. That needs to be checked for smooth operation and functionality. I hope this gives you some ideas on what to start looking at. Don’t change anything that you cannot confirm is defective. It tends to get expensive. Thanks for checking out the video. Roger
hey dude nice vid, one question im will conect one 15 kw the pipe gas can i do it at 1/2 inch or need to be 3/4? just one gas regulation right
Hey moises lemus. Thanks for checking out the video. I need to know if it’s natural gas or propane and the length of piping that you are planning to install. Also the installation manual that comes with your machine has a chart inside to give you some direction also. However if you give me some informational I can look it up. Another piece of information that is required is what pressure is the utility providing if it’s natural gas. Thanks
No drip leg? Just asking. In my locale a drip leg is mandatory.
Thanks im2yys4U for checking out the video. The drip leg is below the deck where the pipe come thru to the generator. Roger
I am buying the same wc tester you have for my generator. I now know what to look for in my setup causing hard startups. Much appreciated.
Hi Eastman Research. I like this manometer. It’s easy to read and the plastic case keeps it clean and safe when in storage. Good luck with your testing. There can be a few things for hard starting. You have to rule out the basics which is extremely important in any diagnostic journey. Roger
Hello, I have a Generac 12kw. It starts but only runs 10-15 seconds and shuts down. No lights are on the display. y problemIf I leave the switch at manual it will keep starting run for a short period of time and shut down. Could this be a gas supply problem. Any suggestions?
Hi Juma Abdiroglu. Thanks for checking out the video. Sorry I didn’t catch your question till to day. The fact it runs and shuts down I would look at the safety items first. My first thought is to test the oil pressure switch. It is fairly easy to check. There’s only two wires connected to it. There are two ways they can operate. The controller either recognizes it as an open or closed switch. When the units starts oil pressure is developed and either opens or closes the switch. This information is sent to the controller or the circuit is interrupted to prevent damage to the engine. With out a model number I really can’t offer much more. Also check the level of the oil. Sometimes it is the simple thing’s . Gas pressure could be an issue but start with the easy things first. I hope this helps to get you started. Roger
how 'bout that battery corrosion :)
Hey, @StanGenerX. The corrosion while it looked bad wasn’t affecting the power to start yet. I did a video on cleaning up the battery posts with baking soda. At that point in time the corrosion still was superficial and hadn’t made its way between the connector and the battery post. Thanks for posting and reviewing the video. Roger