Nah. Jazz handled em. 6 games. They were the better team. Houston was a flash in the pan. Overrated. They did nothing 87-93. Never got past the first round. 94 they almost lost to New York. And 95 they needed Drexler to come in and boost. The magic were just inexperienced, took the rockets lightly. By 96 Houston gets smashed by Seattle and in 97 it was over.
@@panafrocanam2100👍 yup I don’t know why some people refer to some of those teams as strong teams from the 90s. If they were so good, they would’ve won something or at least went back to the finals
Notice how Olajuwon played… like a true Center and was unstoppable down low…. As opposed to centers in 2024 jacking up 3 pointers all game… use your size to your advantage
Olajuwon…. You can make the case that he’s the greatest center of all time… what pisses me off is that he’s underrated and not talked about like he should be… his foot work and his moves down low is pure art work and finesse… back to back champion he can shoot and do everything
@@132indo The Rockets would've been an easier matchup in general if Barkley was on the floor his ISO offense plays right into the Bulls hands. The Rockets moved the ball and spaced the floor better w/o him here, plus if Kukoc is on the floor the Rockets have a mismatch regardless.
Both teams played great. They played their hearts out. I believe the Rockets would've gave the Bulls a hardbtime inbthe finals had they met. Can't nobody stop Hakeeem. No one can handle Jordan from the perimeter. The games would've been close as well asvthe series.
Olajuwon was absolutely lethal down low. Also, Kevin Willis had a hell of a game. If the Rockets could have bottled up this kind of effort, the Bulls would have been dethroned. Stunning performance by Houston, especially without Barkley
Best Bulls team we never got to see actually , 1994 Bulls with Jordan playing in his prime would win 70 games and with Kukoc and Kerr added to nucleus of Pippen, Horace Grant and Armstrong nobody beats them.
that is not how the NBA work, players are their for glory and more importantly money, most of them come from poor, usually after dynasty, them got their glory , player do not want to try hard anymore, them want to move on , get a new and bigger contract.
Rodman’s absence was definitely felt in this matchup! As a native Texan The Rockets outside those back 2 back championship seasons were notorious for choking against Seattle, The Suns, Lakers, & Utah! Thus no Bulls vs Rockets Finals.
You just proved a point. If Jordan didn't retire the first time the Bulls could have beaten the Rockets in the Finals because they beat those other teams you talked about in the Finals
The Rockets never lost a series as the favorite w/Rudy Tomjanovich what are you talking about? At least half of their series wins w/him were actually when they weren't favored, they were the prime exact of a team that level of play increases in the postseaon.
The good old days I tell you. NBA on NBC was the bomb with great tv coverage. Cannot wait for them to be back on air again in 2025. Cancel you please continue to upload more NBA on NBC games from 1991-2002 please?
@@robertmoore294 nah your "logic" makes 0 sense. Between Hakeem/Houston & Jordan/Chicago whose team was the first to appear in a Finals? Hakeem led them there in only his 2nd season and Jordan/Chicago weren't there, so how was Houston the ones not wanting to face off when they were there first?
@@FuShengAlex bro, why you going through all the debates and being a dick about all this? OK you win. I was copying u to keep the peace about it and you got to go in to all this. That was the point of me copying you because there was nothing else to say. OK you made your point so it's no need to point out something that it's not getting anywhere you just got egos because you want attention because you disagree about what I said. But who cares, what I was said was 4 days ago I forgot all about that anyway. Whoever you are have a good one.
We didn’t get to see it cuz Houston couldn’t get there. They did a whole lot of nothing other than 94 and 95. 90-93 didn’t get out of round 1. And by 96 it was over.
@@dapper892houston toppled the heavily favored more talented defending champions Los Angeles in 1986 in only 5 while they were in the midst of winning titles to advance to the Finals when no one gave them a chance. Meanwhile the Bulls get all this praise for barely beating a soft Cleveland team with not one single guy in the HOF. 😂😂 Chicago just waited through repeated whipping by Detroit until they ran outta ways to send the Bulls packing. Who tha heck did the Bulls really beat b4 they won a title? 😂😂
They had no answer for MJ. Rockets are the most overrated championship team. People actually think they coulda beat Chicago 😂. They barley got past New York in 94. And in 1995 Orlando was just young, they partied, and took the series lightly. Game 1 was theirs, they blew it, Nick andersons free throws were just a sign that they weren’t ready. They were a more talented team by far. If the 96 bulls were there Houston gets beat in 5 or 6.
@@dapper892 lol. Rockets had drexler as well. Yes jordan was better, but drexler was the second best shooting guard. And i never talked about championship vs bulls since we will never know that. Mj himself said that the bulls had no answer for Hakeem, you can search the quote. And lastly rockets first championship was one for the ages. Hakeem played with no all star and beat amazing teams. Second chip was the cherry on top. If anything the first championship is underrated.
@@billagap3213 they only had Drexler for the second and by 1995 he was not the 2nd best shooting guard anymore. Mitch Richmond was. Reggie Miller and sprewell were arguably better. Penny played like a shooting guard a lot of the time and he was for sure better. I don’t need to look up the quote. I lived it. I recall. And you’re right you didn’t say anything about championships. My bad. Hakeem would have been tough no question. But Just tired of this inflated legacy those rockets have.
Oh wow, I had no idea the Bulls got dismantled this bad in a regular season game vs Houston! Makes you wonder what a tantalizing Finals we could've have with Bulls vs Rockets in 1997 ...
You never will see it because they will only show you nothing but when the bull dismantle other teams. They got destroyed and this would have been a tough match for the bulls
I remember that game. Houston media was making it a big deal that Mario Elie held Jordan to 0/9 shooting for 0 points when he guarded him in the 2nd half. Jordan shot 8/25 for 26 points. Maybe Jordan heard about it and took it personal because the following season, Jordan scored 44 and 40 on Elie lol.
The Bulls play through other teams runs. That's how confident and cocky they were. I don't remember seeing anybody score 19 straight points on them ever. Jordan included could do nothing to stop it as you saw. As they say, things aren't always what they seem. It was one regular season. Yet you get the point game.
The Rockets playmaking consisted of team ball rather than the traditional system w/the PG being the focal point which made it more difficult to adjust defensively against them.
Had the Rockets not lost S. Cassell or found a quality PG, the 1997 finals would have been played between these 2 teams. After B. Price out for the season, the Rockets tried to stop Stockton only with M. Maloney... of course it was not possible.
It also helped that by this point, Jeff Hornacek was averaging more assists alongside Stockton than most players on the Jazz before he got there, and the scheme was a bit less predictable as a result. The secret base channel made a video that pointed out that one of their players who got hurt was someone they were thinking of trading for Derek Harper. Would that have done the trick?
@@fortynights1513 Yes, If it weren't for the injury, that trade would most likely have happened. I think D. Harper would have been enough, he was the type of player the Rockets were looking for and played an average of 30 minutes that season. At least, the Rockets would have been assertive until the end of the 7th game.
Rockets back to back champs 94 and 95….. most underrated championship team ever….. they were loaded top to bottom And that Bulls vs Rockets matchup had been talked about and the Bulls won 91,92,93 ROCKETS 94,95 then Bulls won 96,97,98 so the Rockets had plenty of chances to meet the Bulls but they never got it done My money is on Chicago…
What "plenty of chances" are you talking about? The Rockets were a lower seeded postseason team more often than vice versa, including their 2nd championship season. Speaking of the Rockets it was the clutch city version of the team that was a tough matchup Cassell, Smith, and Horry were not only shooters they could also put the ball on the floor and take defenders off the dribble. This Rockets team had different personnel Maloney was pretty much just a spot up shooter and Barkley's ISO style of offense wasn't necessarily a good fit in Rudy's system. It's no coincidence that w/o Barkley this game the Rockets had more consistent ball movement and won convincingly.
In regards to the 94 and 95 Rockets….. Championships…. Barkley wasn’t on either team…..and to answer your question.. ‘ what plenty of chances’ People elude to a finals match up Bulls vs Rockets and the Rockets beating the Bulls… if the Bulls won 3 before the Rockets being the 94, 95 champions and Bulls winning 3 after then there’s no reason why the Bulls couldn’t win 94 and 95 Rockets had plenty chances to meet the Bulls in the finals but Rockets never got it done for the matchup to happen
@@johead8516 They didn't have "plenty of chances" considering teams that don't have a top 4 record more often than not don't even get to the conference finals much less the finals, the 2nd championship team was one of the few times that actually happened which I believe was the only time a team won every series w/o hca they were usually injury ridden throughout the season which prevented them from being a higher seed. If anything it was the other contending teams in the West that "blew it" considering they were the ones that were losing series as the favorite, not the Rockets. The difference between the Rockets and those other teams was they didn't use the traditional system where the PG did most of the ball handling/playmaking they played team ball. That made it more difficult to use the press on them because they would just space the floor and break it often. Also numerous face up moves and fadeaway shots in the low post is a different scenario compared to the traditional low block players that relied on pushing their way towards the basket. That's why I mentioned Barkley his offense was easier to gameplan for, plus he was a bit slower on the defensive end too.
Steve kerr coming in clutch like a baby face assassin i just don't know who though 🤔 (at least until the fourth quarter) but seriously though i really think this would've been a marquee match up if these two meet up in the finals it probably would've gone 7 full games too
So is that why Chicago lead by Jordan went to the finals 6 damn times in the decade? You weirdo's will try anything to chip at this man throne an fail miserably each time. Jordan never said he feared Hakeem. Worry about these weak Superstars today creating superteams an still coming up small. How tf was Jordan scared of Hakeem when he came out of his conference 4 more times than Hakeem did 🤡.
You weirdo's try talk all this nonsense but can't explain why the same teams in the West that was eliminating Houston also went on to lose to Chicago. Hakeem would've averaged 30/12/5/3 an loss in 5. They couldn't deal with Seattle Utah or Phoenix with Barkley. Oh yeah Jordan sent all 3 of these teams home an nothing would've changed had Houston went to the finals. After 1991 Jordan wasn't losing to nobody in the finals.
@@Royal2Loyal1 Seattle has had the Rockets number only. Utah couldnt blow anyone out so if it was close it was in favor of the Houston. Phoenix psychologically couldn't hang with Houston. They cant close nothing out. Their easily moved. The Rockets without Barkley and add Maad Max and Horry, Cassell would win a series against the Bulls. We have a better bench and better shooter. The Bulls suffer badly against skilled big men. I don't see the Bulls beating the Rockets
Bulls in 6 over Rockets in 97 finals, Dream would do damage but Rockets wouldn't have Kenny Smith or Cassell to hurt Bulls backcourt, Jordan would destroy Drexler and Pippen would dominate series plus Rodman would do good defensive job on Barkley.
Drexler actually played pretty well against them often when he was w/the Rockets, he wasn't the 1st option which made him more dangerous he had a triple double in this game. Barkley was pretty slow on the defensive end and his ISO offense caused ball movement to stall though, that did play a factor in the wcf loss. They would've still been the tougher matchup out West because they didn't use the traditional system where the PG was the focal point in ball handling/playmaking. That was one of the reasons it was difficult for opposing teams to scout them they moved the ball around as a team, especially before the addition of Barkley who did stall the offense at times like I already mentioned.
I lived in Houston at this time (still do) and remember this game pissing me off because the Rockets won. They took the lead in the 4th quarter and the Rockets went on a crazy run.
I’ll say this on any and every thread: Rockets should have never traded Horry and Cassell for Barkley. Had they kept those two, THIS would have been the ‘97 finals.
@@ChrisM07 He was on the team but it didnt stop them from losing to utah. They bettered their frontcourt. But their PG position was the Achilles heel. . That was too much to put on a undraftrd rookie Maloney. Wasted Hakeems last great year!
@@FuShengAlex Barkley's ISO offense stalled ball movement which also played a factor, their ball movement here w/o Barkley was similar to the clutch city team.
The offensive foul they called on drexler vs jordan, and moments later they gifted jordan with two free throws on a clear offensive foul were joke decisions. The nba loved the bulls
Except for the fact that Steve Kerr clearly took a charge on Drexler shortly earlier...so one favorable call for the Bulls is not really favoring (especially since they no called several Kerr charge attempts). And Jordan's wasn't a charge because the man was clearly moving AND within the imaginary arc under the hoop. Whine a little more.
@@scottb3034i think you're either blind or don't know basketball. It was a clear charge. The defender wasn't moving. And if he was, so was jordan vs drexler (and even more). And kerr was flopping the whole game Jordan is the goat but that doesn't mean he wasn't favoured in some occasions
@@billagap3213 I guess I could say the same to you since being perfectly still doesn't always mean it is a charge nor does moving always mean it is a blocking foul. And I already explained he was in the restricted zone so none of that matters anyway. Talk to me when you actually learn what the fouls are and how they are called. Oh and just because Kerr was "flopping" (the dude is a small, unathletic point guard...he may just not be a stout, strong defender) doesn't mean he should get no calls or that he doesn't make the proper defensive play ever. Drexler has been a baby his entire career and ended Jake O'Donnell's Career in 1995 because of it. Jordan gets favored, drexler gets favored, Hakeem does...they all do....or maybe the refs may just make a call or not make one because they think that's the call. Not every ref is Tim Donaghy here. Whine more about the Bulls.
you see the difference when Rodman wasnt playing during the Bulls 2nd 3peat run 💁🏻♀️💯 Bulls are struggling especially on the rebounding and defensive side which The Rockets had with Hakeem 💁🏻♀️💯
Yes, it was pretty much a throwback to ‘95 between Horace Grant’s departure and before Rodman would sign up. Doesn’t help with Houston’s front line being so aggressive on the boards, physically stronger in general.
The Bulls still outrebounded the Rockets this game, the real reason the Rockets played so well was because Barkley wasn't on the floor stalling ball movement w/his ISO offense. His style of play didn't fit Rudy's system that along w/Stockton dominating the PG matchup was the reason they lost the wcf.
The Bulls second three-peat team in my opinion was better than the first three-peat. I think you ask about a matchup between these two teams in the finals, the Rockets had a better chance of beating the 91-93 Bulls than the 96-98 Bulls in the finals. But, of the 96-98 years, 97 was perhaps their best chance.
No the 2 3Peat team was more disciplined off of experience the 1st one was very explosive. Hakeem would've put his numbers up but Houston had absolutely nothing for Jordan or the triangle. People keep forgetting Houston did play in the West playoffs an they did lose to a few teams Jordan went on to beat, nothing would've changed. Bulls toughest finals opponent was Utah an they had no problem with Houston, even with 3 future hall of famers.
this game was the only one the Rockets won during the 2nd threepeat. The Bulls dominated them for 4 years. Agreed the Rockets stood no chance. @@Royal2Loyal1
The Rockets had different personnel at this point, Smith and Cassell could also take a defender off the dribble while Maloney was mostly just a spot up shooter. Also Barkley was a ball dominant low post player which caused movement to stall because he had the ball in hands too long on a lot of his possessions while he was slow on the defensive end as far as rotating. They were more injury ridden throughout the season post 95 as well they pretty much peaked w/the finals sweep of the Magic.
@@annie20232 I don’t think Hakeem was afraid of Seattle , but on a serious note the league robbed New York in game 6 starks was fouled on that last shot
David Stern was dead set against the Rockets vs. Bulls because it would have shown that MJ was vulnerable against Hakeem. MJ was the face of the league, and you had to protect that. Bulls could never defeat the Rockets.
The Rockets w/o Barkley this game was more significant because his ISO offense plays right into the Bulls hands, the Rockets moved the ball better here w/him not on the floor it resembled the "clutch city" championship team. The Rockets would've had a mismatch advantage regardless w/Kukoc on the floor.
The difference between the Rockets and the majority of other teams w/low post players was the fast lateral movement and numerous face up moves, so no it's not as easy as you think. Even Shaq played the traditional low post style where he backed his way towards the basket and he didn't move around often so it was easier to single cover him and stay home on everyone else. The Rockets didn't use the traditional system where the PG was the focal point in ball handling/playmaking either which was one of the reasons it was difficult for opposing teams to scout them. Also if anything the Rockets were the prime example of a team that played better in the postseason compared to regular season, 95 practically showed that. That was the clutch city version of the team though this Rockets team had different personnel Barkley was pretty slow on both ends and Maloney was mostly a spot up shooter while Smith and Cassell could take defenders off the dribble too.
You see how good Houston matched up against Chicago with Barkley on the bench and would've beaten Utah that year if Barkley wasn't in the game. Olajuwon needed to be the go-to guy and having to share with Barkley disrupted their offense, plus Barkley being too slow to cover Malone and too slow to switch up on the pick and roll was enough to finally help Utah get passed Houston after years of Houston beating them in the playoffs. The new owner of the Rockets destroyed a championship team because he bought into the Barkley hype when all he needed to do was sign Kevin Willis or somehow get Otis Thorpe back.
They initially didn't plan on trading for Barkley they only took the gamble and did it because Barkley said he wanted to go there. Also Stockton would've likely still been a problem regardless w/o Smith/Cassell there.
The Rockets definitely would've been the tougher matchup out West because they didn't use the traditional system where the PG did the majority of the playmaking they played team ball which made their offense difficult to scout.
A example of what I mean about plenty of chances…. Every season every team starts off with the same record 0-0……. The western conference teams the Bulls faced in the finals 1 Lakers 2 Blazers 3 Suns 4 Sonics 5 Jazz 6 Jazz What I’m trying to explain is that people wanted to see Bulls vs Rockets The Rockets had plenty of chances to be the western conference team to go to the finals to face Michael Jordan The Bulls are going to be the team in the Finals…. The Rockets had plenty of opportunities to be in the finals to face the Bulls…. I understand what you’re saying about seeding and injuries I get it but the Rockets had 6 opportunities to play the Bulls in the finals but they never made it because they got beat by another team in the west
Yeah but the Rockets never "choked" or anything though, for example the wcf series they lost because Barkley got exploited in the pick and roll along w/Stockton dominating w/o Smith/Cassell there.
The Rockets was the greatest underrated team of all time.. Loaded roster, Hakeem Olajuwon being the best player and leader…. I love the Rockets and the only point I was making was they never made it to face Michael Jordan!!!!!!! Choked absolutely not… I can make the case that the Rockets top to bottom roster to roster is the greatest team all time
Houston without Charles Barkley against the defending champs no less looks fine. Sure, there's no Dennis Rodman for the Bulls. Nonetheless, the Rockets looks cool without Barkley win or lose. They should have kept vital cogs Robert Horry and Sam Cassell as they will be beneficial come Playoff time.
@ 17:36 is exactly why mj became the fake 🐐 they use to give him all the calls. I grew up in a bulls household & loved them,but jordan waa boosted to mythical status cause of marketing,being the nba's golden boy & refs
@@FuShengAlex 86? Whaaaa? How you go back to 86? And 95, Mike was just coming back. He played like 20 games before the playoffs. The years that everybody was there and healthy the Rockets flamed out
@@robert.mills5 Spare me the semantics. Only willing to edit out what fits your biased narrative. We only supposed to act like his career was only 91-93 & 96-98? Hakeem led Houston past champions LA to advance to the Finals in only his 2nd season and Jordan wasnt there. That's not Houstons fault he and Chicago didn't play good enough to face them those years. Spin it how you want but Chicago didn't do their part to face Houston those years as well.
Not necessarily, the Rockets would've likely been an easier matchup if Barkley was on the floor because his ISO offense plays right into the Bulls hand. They noticeably spaced the floor and move the ball better w/Barkley on the sidelines here, plus the Rockets still have a mismatch w/Kukoc on the floor anyway.
Hakeem was a tier above those inferior Georgetown Centers Jordan bullied in the East. That's why most Jordan loons can't stand watching his career highlights vs Hakeem compared to those other guys (Ewing, Deke, Zo).
@@FuShengAlex Nah, we'll take the 4-1 against Hakeem during the 2nd threepeat (really 5-1 but Hakeem was injured for one game). Bulls games vs the rockets are just fine to rewatch.
Ya but the rockets couldn't beat the west the bulls stomped all the east and west except the rockets, that's on the rockets for folding to teams the bulls destroyed lol.
The Rockets didn't have the hca in the wcf so it wasn't like they were the favorites anyway. They didn't have an answer for Stockton w/neither Smith or Cassell there anymore and Barkley's ISO offense also caused ball movement to stall that's why they lost.
@@omarawad1995 based on hakeem's capability...hes like a 7 feet butler..and thats a compliment because smaller jimmy butler can lead a team to finals with only his midrange shooting...bigger hakeem would be a monster with his size and his butler like midrange, defenders for sure would find it hard to block his jumpshots
@@annie20232 ive never compared their title..i just compared them base on their skills.and hakeem is a 7 feet version of jimmy butler...if jimmy butler can cause lebron problems, hakeem will definitely destroy lebron
should been the 97 Finals that year. I was soo pissed when Utah beat Houston in that Gm 6 in the WCF. I wanted it to be 97 Knicks-Bulls ECF, then 97 Bulls-Rockets Finals
![Michael Jordan Highlights (40pts) vs.Rockets [04-05-98]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zkYr7t2rFts/mqdefault.jpg)
![Michael Jordan Highlights (40pts) vs.Rockets [04-05-98]](/img/tr.png)
The '97 Finals matchup that we should've had.
Nah. Jazz handled em. 6 games. They were the better team.
Houston was a flash in the pan. Overrated. They did nothing 87-93. Never got past the first round. 94 they almost lost to New York. And 95 they needed Drexler to come in and boost. The magic were just inexperienced, took the rockets lightly. By 96 Houston gets smashed by Seattle and in 97 it was over.
They should have won Game 6 at home. They just collapsed down the stretch
@dapper892 u sound slow... The same teams u give credit to outside Rockets never won a darn ring. Sit two seats down.
@@panafrocanam2100👍 yup I don’t know why some people refer to some of those teams as strong teams from the 90s. If they were so good, they would’ve won something or at least went back to the finals
Still no chance against the dynasty bulls
I remember watching this as a teenager, good times of Sunday afternoon basketball on NBC.
It sucks these days are gone. I miss them
Notice how Olajuwon played… like a true Center and was unstoppable down low…. As opposed to centers in 2024 jacking up 3 pointers all game… use your size to your advantage
Hakeem had the whole package of moves, spin, jump hook, fadeaway, the shake, etc.
Olajuwon…. You can make the case that he’s the greatest center of all time… what pisses me off is that he’s underrated and not talked about like he should be… his foot work and his moves down low is pure art work and finesse… back to back champion he can shoot and do everything
No jack up low pct 3's it's really exciting
It’s exciting for a center jacking up 3s?
The ability to shoot 3s jus makes u even greater as a center. Like jokic
Those were the good old days
Chuck was doing great commentating !
The last five minutes of this game, HUGE! My dreaming NBA Final this year...
Rodmans defense on Olajuwon and Willis was sorely missed.
Barkley didn't play in this gm either.
@@zerimar26 Barkeley was fat and lazy at this point. Rodman was a far better player
@@132indo The Rockets would've been an easier matchup in general if Barkley was on the floor his ISO offense plays right into the Bulls hands. The Rockets moved the ball and spaced the floor better w/o him here, plus if Kukoc is on the floor the Rockets have a mismatch regardless.
The NBA Finals that never was but could have been
The Rockets blew that Game 6 against Utah
Both teams played great. They played their hearts out. I believe the Rockets would've gave the Bulls a hardbtime inbthe finals had they met. Can't nobody stop Hakeeem. No one can handle Jordan from the perimeter. The games would've been close as well asvthe series.
Rockets didn't make the finals that season, Hakeem didn't play well in Game 5 against the Jazz and got eliminated in the first round 😂
@@robocop581 The Rockets got to the wcf, and Barkley was the one that didn't play well in G5.
Oh my how do you guard Hakeem lol, nobody could
Put This Game On NBA TV Hardwood Classic On TV
Bill Wennington... whom me and my dad, perennial trekkies, used to affectionately refer to as "Riker'! 😂😂
Olajuwon was absolutely lethal down low. Also, Kevin Willis had a hell of a game. If the Rockets could have bottled up this kind of effort, the Bulls would have been dethroned. Stunning performance by Houston, especially without Barkley
Best Bulls team we never got to see actually , 1994 Bulls with Jordan playing in his prime would win 70 games and with Kukoc and Kerr added to nucleus of Pippen, Horace Grant and Armstrong nobody beats them.
Pfft the same could be said for Hakeem with healthy Sampson and a team that had a clean John Lucas instead of him getting suspended
Call me crazy but I'd trade out Horace for Rodman.
that is not how the NBA work, players are their for glory and more importantly money, most of them come from poor, usually after dynasty, them got their glory , player do not want to try hard anymore, them want to move on , get a new and bigger contract.
Come on give me a break, Olajuwon would have been too much for Jordan bulls in 94.
Why bring up kerr I'm from Chicago watched every game kerr wasn't shit but a at best average roll player . The team was MJ Pip Rodman Kukoc
Rodman’s absence was definitely felt in this matchup! As a native Texan The Rockets outside those back 2 back championship seasons were notorious for choking against Seattle, The Suns, Lakers, & Utah! Thus no Bulls vs Rockets Finals.
You just proved a point. If Jordan didn't retire the first time the Bulls could have beaten the Rockets in the Finals because they beat those other teams you talked about in the Finals
They didn't choke vs the Orlando team that ousted Chicago though
The Rockets never lost a series as the favorite w/Rudy Tomjanovich what are you talking about? At least half of their series wins w/him were actually when they weren't favored, they were the prime exact of a team that level of play increases in the postseaon.
Charles was out that game too
2:50 Kevin Willis with the range! 😳😳😆
Right??! 😅
The good old days I tell you. NBA on NBC was the bomb with great tv coverage. Cannot wait for them to be back on air again in 2025. Cancel you please continue to upload more NBA on NBC games from 1991-2002 please?
Would you please i watching the 1994 NBA All-star game in Minneapolis?
@@clarencesimmons8580 Was that the same All Star Game when Scottie Pippen played while he was intoxicated?
I remember taping this game like it was the playoffs. The Rockets should have beaten The Jazz in the West Finals
They didn't wanted to face MJ and the bulls.
In the finals the bulls are a different team when it comes to winning.
@@robertmoore294 the Bulls didn't want to face the Rockets either when they made the Finals by your logic
@@FuShengAlex the Bulls didn't want to face the Rockets either when they made the Finals by your logic
@@robertmoore294 nah your "logic" makes 0 sense. Between Hakeem/Houston & Jordan/Chicago whose team was the first to appear in a Finals?
Hakeem led them there in only his 2nd season and Jordan/Chicago weren't there, so how was Houston the ones not wanting to face off when they were there first?
@@FuShengAlex bro, why you going through all the debates and being a dick about all this?
OK you win. I was copying u to keep the peace about it and you got to go in to all this. That was the point of me copying you because there was nothing else to say. OK you made your point so it's no need to point out something that it's not getting anywhere you just got egos because you want attention because you disagree about what I said. But who cares, what I was said was 4 days ago I forgot all about that anyway. Whoever you are have a good one.
Bulls vs Rockets would've been a great 1997 Finals matchup, still a shame we never got to see that matchup in a Finals series during the 90s!
We didn’t get to see it cuz Houston couldn’t get there. They did a whole lot of nothing other than 94 and 95. 90-93 didn’t get out of round 1. And by 96 it was over.
Or the Bulls vs Lakers in 1998, Bulls vs Spurs in 1999
@@dapper892 The Rockets were fortunate to avoid the Sonics in 94 and 95, which would have given them some problems
@@annie20232 That's right. Seattle always had their number.
@@dapper892houston toppled the heavily favored more talented defending champions Los Angeles in 1986 in only 5 while they were in the midst of winning titles to advance to the Finals when no one gave them a chance.
Meanwhile the Bulls get all this praise for barely beating a soft Cleveland team with not one single guy in the HOF. 😂😂
Chicago just waited through repeated whipping by Detroit until they ran outta ways to send the Bulls packing. Who tha heck did the Bulls really beat b4 they won a title? 😂😂
Bulls had absolutely no answer for Hakeem. Not even rodman could do anything
They had no answer for MJ. Rockets are the most overrated championship team. People actually think they coulda beat Chicago 😂.
They barley got past New York in 94. And in 1995 Orlando was just young, they partied, and took the series lightly. Game 1 was theirs, they blew it, Nick andersons free throws were just a sign that they weren’t ready. They were a more talented team by far. If the 96 bulls were there Houston gets beat in 5 or 6.
@@dapper892 lol. Rockets had drexler as well. Yes jordan was better, but drexler was the second best shooting guard. And i never talked about championship vs bulls since we will never know that. Mj himself said that the bulls had no answer for Hakeem, you can search the quote. And lastly rockets first championship was one for the ages. Hakeem played with no all star and beat amazing teams. Second chip was the cherry on top. If anything the first championship is underrated.
@@billagap3213 they only had Drexler for the second and by 1995 he was not the 2nd best shooting guard anymore. Mitch Richmond was. Reggie Miller and sprewell were arguably better. Penny played like a shooting guard a lot of the time and he was for sure better.
I don’t need to look up the quote. I lived it. I recall. And you’re right you didn’t say anything about championships. My bad. Hakeem would have been tough no question. But Just tired of this inflated legacy those rockets have.
@@dapper892 You sound like a Spurs fan
@@dapper892
Inflated compared to what. Please enlighten.
wow 19-0 run? You could see the face on Jordan he was shocked.
Olajuwon owning Jordan in this game.
I remember the anticpation and the promotion around the future hall of famers! (Jordan, Pippin, Rodman, Barkley, Drexler, Olajuwon).
Oh wow, I had no idea the Bulls got dismantled this bad in a regular season game vs Houston! Makes you wonder what a tantalizing Finals we could've have with Bulls vs Rockets in 1997 ...
You never will see it because they will only show you nothing but when the bull dismantle other teams. They got destroyed and this would have been a tough match for the bulls
I remember that game. Houston media was making it a big deal that Mario Elie held Jordan to 0/9 shooting for 0 points when he guarded him in the 2nd half. Jordan shot 8/25 for 26 points. Maybe Jordan heard about it and took it personal because the following season, Jordan scored 44 and 40 on Elie lol.
I still believe confident positive Rockets will win 3rd title 🏆
The Bulls play through other teams runs. That's how confident and cocky they were. I don't remember seeing anybody score 19 straight points on them ever. Jordan included could do nothing to stop it as you saw. As they say, things aren't always what they seem. It was one regular season. Yet you get the point game.
The Rockets playmaking consisted of team ball rather than the traditional system w/the PG being the focal point which made it more difficult to adjust defensively against them.
Had the Rockets not lost S. Cassell or found a quality PG, the 1997 finals would have been played between these 2 teams. After B. Price out for the season, the Rockets tried to stop Stockton only with M. Maloney... of course it was not possible.
It also helped that by this point, Jeff Hornacek was averaging more assists alongside Stockton than most players on the Jazz before he got there, and the scheme was a bit less predictable as a result.
The secret base channel made a video that pointed out that one of their players who got hurt was someone they were thinking of trading for Derek Harper.
Would that have done the trick?
@@fortynights1513 Yes, If it weren't for the injury, that trade would most likely have happened. I think D. Harper would have been enough, he was the type of player the Rockets were looking for and played an average of 30 minutes that season.
At least, the Rockets would have been assertive until the end of the 7th game.
Crazy thing is I remember collecting money on my paper route during this game. 😂 one of my customers watched a few minutes with me lol
Rockets back to back champs 94 and 95….. most underrated championship team ever….. they were loaded top to bottom
And that Bulls vs Rockets matchup had been talked about and the Bulls won 91,92,93 ROCKETS 94,95 then Bulls won 96,97,98 so the Rockets had plenty of chances to meet the Bulls but they never got it done
My money is on Chicago…
Chicago won't win nothing against Olajuwon rockets. Olajuwon rockets all the way.
Not too sure but ok
What "plenty of chances" are you talking about? The Rockets were a lower seeded postseason team more often than vice versa, including their 2nd championship season.
Speaking of the Rockets it was the clutch city version of the team that was a tough matchup Cassell, Smith, and Horry were not only shooters they could also put the ball on the floor and take defenders off the dribble. This Rockets team had different personnel Maloney was pretty much just a spot up shooter and Barkley's ISO style of offense wasn't necessarily a good fit in Rudy's system. It's no coincidence that w/o Barkley this game the Rockets had more consistent ball movement and won convincingly.
In regards to the 94 and 95 Rockets….. Championships…. Barkley wasn’t on either team…..and to answer your question.. ‘ what plenty of chances’
People elude to a finals match up Bulls vs Rockets and the Rockets beating the Bulls… if the Bulls won 3 before the Rockets being the 94, 95 champions and Bulls winning 3 after then there’s no reason why the Bulls couldn’t win 94 and 95
Rockets had plenty chances to meet the Bulls in the finals but Rockets never got it done for the matchup to happen
@@johead8516 They didn't have "plenty of chances" considering teams that don't have a top 4 record more often than not don't even get to the conference finals much less the finals, the 2nd championship team was one of the few times that actually happened which I believe was the only time a team won every series w/o hca they were usually injury ridden throughout the season which prevented them from being a higher seed. If anything it was the other contending teams in the West that "blew it" considering they were the ones that were losing series as the favorite, not the Rockets.
The difference between the Rockets and those other teams was they didn't use the traditional system where the PG did most of the ball handling/playmaking they played team ball. That made it more difficult to use the press on them because they would just space the floor and break it often. Also numerous face up moves and fadeaway shots in the low post is a different scenario compared to the traditional low block players that relied on pushing their way towards the basket. That's why I mentioned Barkley his offense was easier to gameplan for, plus he was a bit slower on the defensive end too.
Steve kerr coming in clutch like a baby face assassin i just don't know who though 🤔 (at least until the fourth quarter) but seriously though i really think this would've been a marquee match up if these two meet up in the finals it probably would've gone 7 full games too
Kerr
@@annie20232 😂 my fault I changed same with this one
That was the Bulls laying the trap on Houston 😅😂
Charles! Who loves you baby!
😂😂 rebounding king! 👍🏾✌🏾
I remember this game ruined my Sunday. The Bulls made a rally in the 4th and Rudy T got pissed and then suddenly the whole Rocket team responded.
Great upload! Too bad the basketballreference isn't a hyperlink anymore
👍sadly youtube now wants me to upload my ID to 'verify' me before i can add links :(
@@MDBBall These guys... All good, mate
❤❤ROCKETS NBA DIDN'T WANT THE ROCKETS UPSETTING MICHAEL
Jordan temía llegar a una final contra Olajuwon, según sus propias palabras no tenían con que detenerlo.
Facts
So is that why Chicago lead by Jordan went to the finals 6 damn times in the decade? You weirdo's will try anything to chip at this man throne an fail miserably each time. Jordan never said he feared Hakeem. Worry about these weak Superstars today creating superteams an still coming up small. How tf was Jordan scared of Hakeem when he came out of his conference 4 more times than Hakeem did 🤡.
You weirdo's try talk all this nonsense but can't explain why the same teams in the West that was eliminating Houston also went on to lose to Chicago. Hakeem would've averaged 30/12/5/3 an loss in 5. They couldn't deal with Seattle Utah or Phoenix with Barkley. Oh yeah Jordan sent all 3 of these teams home an nothing would've changed had Houston went to the finals. After 1991 Jordan wasn't losing to nobody in the finals.
@@Royal2Loyal1 Seattle has had the Rockets number only. Utah couldnt blow anyone out so if it was close it was in favor of the Houston. Phoenix psychologically couldn't hang with Houston. They cant close nothing out. Their easily moved. The Rockets without Barkley and add Maad Max and Horry, Cassell would win a series against the Bulls. We have a better bench and better shooter. The Bulls suffer badly against skilled big men. I don't see the Bulls beating the Rockets
Bulls in 6 over Rockets in 97 finals, Dream would do damage but Rockets wouldn't have Kenny Smith or Cassell to hurt Bulls backcourt, Jordan would destroy Drexler and Pippen would dominate series plus Rodman would do good defensive job on Barkley.
Drexler actually played pretty well against them often when he was w/the Rockets, he wasn't the 1st option which made him more dangerous he had a triple double in this game.
Barkley was pretty slow on the defensive end and his ISO offense caused ball movement to stall though, that did play a factor in the wcf loss. They would've still been the tougher matchup out West because they didn't use the traditional system where the PG was the focal point in ball handling/playmaking. That was one of the reasons it was difficult for opposing teams to scout them they moved the ball around as a team, especially before the addition of Barkley who did stall the offense at times like I already mentioned.
Upload More And More Chicago Bulls Basketball games
Jordan was very gracious in the beginning lol.
May be I missed it but why Rodman did miss the game?
I lived in Houston at this time (still do) and remember this game pissing me off because the Rockets won. They took the lead in the 4th quarter and the Rockets went on a crazy run.
Olajuwon wasn't gonna let Jordan sweep him in this game.
I bet that means they would've won the championship that year 😂😂😂
I’ll say this on any and every thread: Rockets should have never traded Horry and Cassell for Barkley. Had they kept those two, THIS would have been the ‘97 finals.
They needed a PF to keep up with Kemp especially on the glass. Horry wasn't strong enough
@@FuShengAlex Kevin Willis would've been the answer there.
@@ChrisM07 He was on the team but it didnt stop them from losing to utah. They bettered their frontcourt. But their PG position was the Achilles heel. .
That was too much to put on a undraftrd rookie Maloney. Wasted Hakeems last great year!
@@FuShengAlex Barkley's ISO offense stalled ball movement which also played a factor, their ball movement here w/o Barkley was similar to the clutch city team.
Это было мощно. Я про Ракет
The offensive foul they called on drexler vs jordan, and moments later they gifted jordan with two free throws on a clear offensive foul were joke decisions. The nba loved the bulls
Except for the fact that Steve Kerr clearly took a charge on Drexler shortly earlier...so one favorable call for the Bulls is not really favoring (especially since they no called several Kerr charge attempts). And Jordan's wasn't a charge because the man was clearly moving AND within the imaginary arc under the hoop. Whine a little more.
@@scottb3034i think you're either blind or don't know basketball. It was a clear charge. The defender wasn't moving. And if he was, so was jordan vs drexler (and even more). And kerr was flopping the whole game
Jordan is the goat but that doesn't mean he wasn't favoured in some occasions
@@billagap3213 I guess I could say the same to you since being perfectly still doesn't always mean it is a charge nor does moving always mean it is a blocking foul. And I already explained he was in the restricted zone so none of that matters anyway.
Talk to me when you actually learn what the fouls are and how they are called. Oh and just because Kerr was "flopping" (the dude is a small, unathletic point guard...he may just not be a stout, strong defender) doesn't mean he should get no calls or that he doesn't make the proper defensive play ever.
Drexler has been a baby his entire career and ended Jake O'Donnell's Career in 1995 because of it.
Jordan gets favored, drexler gets favored, Hakeem does...they all do....or maybe the refs may just make a call or not make one because they think that's the call.
Not every ref is Tim Donaghy here.
Whine more about the Bulls.
you see the difference when Rodman wasnt playing during the Bulls 2nd 3peat run 💁🏻♀️💯 Bulls are struggling especially on the rebounding and defensive side which The Rockets had with Hakeem 💁🏻♀️💯
Yes, it was pretty much a throwback to ‘95 between Horace Grant’s departure and before Rodman would sign up. Doesn’t help with Houston’s front line being so aggressive on the boards, physically stronger in general.
The Rockets were missing Charles Barkley
The Bulls still outrebounded the Rockets this game, the real reason the Rockets played so well was because Barkley wasn't on the floor stalling ball movement w/his ISO offense. His style of play didn't fit Rudy's system that along w/Stockton dominating the PG matchup was the reason they lost the wcf.
The Bulls second three-peat team in my opinion was better than the first three-peat. I think you ask about a matchup between these two teams in the finals, the Rockets had a better chance of beating the 91-93 Bulls than the 96-98 Bulls in the finals. But, of the 96-98 years, 97 was perhaps their best chance.
No the 2 3Peat team was more disciplined off of experience the 1st one was very explosive. Hakeem would've put his numbers up but Houston had absolutely nothing for Jordan or the triangle. People keep forgetting Houston did play in the West playoffs an they did lose to a few teams Jordan went on to beat, nothing would've changed. Bulls toughest finals opponent was Utah an they had no problem with Houston, even with 3 future hall of famers.
this game was the only one the Rockets won during the 2nd threepeat. The Bulls dominated them for 4 years. Agreed the Rockets stood no chance. @@Royal2Loyal1
The Rockets had different personnel at this point, Smith and Cassell could also take a defender off the dribble while Maloney was mostly just a spot up shooter. Also Barkley was a ball dominant low post player which caused movement to stall because he had the ball in hands too long on a lot of his possessions while he was slow on the defensive end as far as rotating.
They were more injury ridden throughout the season post 95 as well they pretty much peaked w/the finals sweep of the Magic.
Also, it is the same game when Hakeem accidentally elbowed Scottie Pippen on the mouth.
Continue to include the intros please!
Hi David I had mentioned elsewhere that I always include the intros for the games that have them, this one sadly didn't...
Hakeem is lucky mj retired in 94 , Any 97 Knicks coming soon ?
No he was lucky because he didn't face Seattle in the WCF
@@annie20232 I don’t think Hakeem was afraid of Seattle , but on a serious note the league robbed New York in game 6 starks was fouled on that last shot
@@andresdelportillo9917 No he wasn't. Let it go
@@annie20232 Hakeem was not afraid of Seattle. He took the Sonics to 7 games in 1993.
Hakeem never touched John Starks on that 3 point shot.
I remember watching these games...the league always cheated for the Bulls.
David Stern was dead set against the Rockets vs. Bulls because it would have shown that MJ was vulnerable against Hakeem. MJ was the face of the league, and you had to protect that. Bulls could never defeat the Rockets.
No Rodman was huge in this game. Houston shot the lights out too...
The Rockets w/o Barkley this game was more significant because his ISO offense plays right into the Bulls hands, the Rockets moved the ball better here w/him not on the floor it resembled the "clutch city" championship team. The Rockets would've had a mismatch advantage regardless w/Kukoc on the floor.
Nba finals bulls would find a way stop hakeem in 7 game series. Jordan plays a lot harder in the playoffs
If Shaq could beat Chicago then Hakeem definitely was giving them a L
The difference between the Rockets and the majority of other teams w/low post players was the fast lateral movement and numerous face up moves, so no it's not as easy as you think. Even Shaq played the traditional low post style where he backed his way towards the basket and he didn't move around often so it was easier to single cover him and stay home on everyone else. The Rockets didn't use the traditional system where the PG was the focal point in ball handling/playmaking either which was one of the reasons it was difficult for opposing teams to scout them.
Also if anything the Rockets were the prime example of a team that played better in the postseason compared to regular season, 95 practically showed that. That was the clutch city version of the team though this Rockets team had different personnel Barkley was pretty slow on both ends and Maloney was mostly a spot up shooter while Smith and Cassell could take defenders off the dribble too.
Don't wake the action clearance.
You see how good Houston matched up against Chicago with Barkley on the bench and would've beaten Utah that year if Barkley wasn't in the game.
Olajuwon needed to be the go-to guy and having to share with Barkley disrupted their offense, plus Barkley being too slow to cover Malone and too slow to switch up on the pick and roll was enough to finally help Utah get passed Houston after years of Houston beating them in the playoffs.
The new owner of the Rockets destroyed a championship team because he bought into the Barkley hype when all he needed to do was sign Kevin Willis or somehow get Otis Thorpe back.
They initially didn't plan on trading for Barkley they only took the gamble and did it because Barkley said he wanted to go there. Also Stockton would've likely still been a problem regardless w/o Smith/Cassell there.
Bulls always had trouble in Houston
Especially in the first three-peat, my God, Jordan was lost and hammered.
They were a better matchup for the Bulls w/Barkley because of his ISO style of play.
Jazz was better team than houston this year..but Houston was the better match up against the Bulls in 97
The Rockets definitely would've been the tougher matchup out West because they didn't use the traditional system where the PG did the majority of the playmaking they played team ball which made their offense difficult to scout.
A example of what I mean about plenty of chances…. Every season every team starts off with the same record 0-0……. The western conference teams the Bulls faced in the finals 1 Lakers 2 Blazers 3 Suns 4 Sonics 5 Jazz 6 Jazz
What I’m trying to explain is that people wanted to see Bulls vs Rockets
The Rockets had plenty of chances to be the western conference team to go to the finals to face Michael Jordan
The Bulls are going to be the team in the Finals…. The Rockets had plenty of opportunities to be in the finals to face the Bulls…. I understand what you’re saying about seeding and injuries I get it but the Rockets had 6 opportunities to play the Bulls in the finals but they never made it because they got beat by another team in the west
Yeah but the Rockets never "choked" or anything though, for example the wcf series they lost because Barkley got exploited in the pick and roll along w/Stockton dominating w/o Smith/Cassell there.
The Rockets was the greatest underrated team of all time.. Loaded roster, Hakeem Olajuwon being the best player and leader…. I love the Rockets and the only point I was making was they never made it to face Michael Jordan!!!!!!! Choked absolutely not… I can make the case that the Rockets top to bottom roster to roster is the greatest team all time
Houston without Charles Barkley against the defending champs no less looks fine.
Sure, there's no Dennis Rodman for the Bulls.
Nonetheless, the Rockets looks cool without Barkley win or lose.
They should have kept vital cogs Robert Horry and Sam Cassell as they will be beneficial come Playoff time.
Kevin Willis seemed to be a better fit in the Rockets system compared to Barkley, not just on offense but defensively too.
9:15 Scottie Pippen being sensitive over Hakeem elbowing him in the mouth from earlier.
@ 17:36 is exactly why mj became the fake 🐐 they use to give him all the calls. I grew up in a bulls household & loved them,but jordan waa boosted to mythical status cause of marketing,being the nba's golden boy & refs
The Ref’s couldn’t cheat enough for MJ so the Bulls could win. Ahhhh.
Too bad Houston didn't handle their part in the playoffs to make finals match up happen
The Bulls didn't handle their part at times to make the matchup happen either!
@@FuShengAlexyeah they did, they made it to the finals which is the only way they'd match up. Houston lost to Utah
@@robert.mills5 yes they could've matched up in 86 and 95 but the Bulls "didn't handle their part" either.
@@FuShengAlex 86? Whaaaa? How you go back to 86? And 95, Mike was just coming back. He played like 20 games before the playoffs. The years that everybody was there and healthy the Rockets flamed out
@@robert.mills5 Spare me the semantics. Only willing to edit out what fits your biased narrative. We only supposed to act like his career was only 91-93 & 96-98? Hakeem led Houston past champions LA to advance to the Finals in only his 2nd season and Jordan wasnt there. That's not Houstons fault he and Chicago didn't play good enough to face them those years. Spin it how you want but Chicago didn't do their part to face Houston those years as well.
Bulls were pathetic without Rodman! Willis killed them
With Kukoc on the floor it would've been a mismatch regardless.
The nba didnt like the rockets because of this.
They were better than the bulls
The Rockets weren't that great
@@melvynsngltn27against the Rockets, hell yeah they were great.
The GOATS 🐐
Love MJ but he act a chump when he lose
Rodman would have won the game
Not necessarily, the Rockets would've likely been an easier matchup if Barkley was on the floor because his ISO offense plays right into the Bulls hand. They noticeably spaced the floor and move the ball better w/Barkley on the sidelines here, plus the Rockets still have a mismatch w/Kukoc on the floor anyway.
The same game when Michael Jordan tried to trash talk Hakeem Olajuwon after the Rockets made 8 consecutive baskets.
Hakeem was a tier above those inferior Georgetown Centers Jordan bullied in the East.
That's why most Jordan loons can't stand watching his career highlights vs Hakeem compared to those other guys (Ewing, Deke, Zo).
@@FuShengAlex Nah, we'll take the 4-1 against Hakeem during the 2nd threepeat (really 5-1 but Hakeem was injured for one game). Bulls games vs the rockets are just fine to rewatch.
I think he could talk trash considering this is the only game the won over a 3.5 year span on the Bulls.
@@scottb3034 I'll take the 13-10 for his career vs Jordan instead.
Horrible referees who gifted the game to the Rockets
Ya but the rockets couldn't beat the west the bulls stomped all the east and west except the rockets, that's on the rockets for folding to teams the bulls destroyed lol.
The Rockets didn't have the hca in the wcf so it wasn't like they were the favorites anyway. They didn't have an answer for Stockton w/neither Smith or Cassell there anymore and Barkley's ISO offense also caused ball movement to stall that's why they lost.
Hakeem is beyond a monster! But the refs didn’t call much for the bulls! Many non calls
Hakeem = 7 feet jimmy butler
Terrible comparison bruh
Hakeem was at least 10 times better than Jimmy
@@omarawad1995 based on hakeem's capability...hes like a 7 feet butler..and thats a compliment because smaller jimmy butler can lead a team to finals with only his midrange shooting...bigger hakeem would be a monster with his size and his butler like midrange, defenders for sure would find it hard to block his jumpshots
@@shiningking Butler never won a title. Sit down kid
@@annie20232 ive never compared their title..i just compared them base on their skills.and hakeem is a 7 feet version of jimmy butler...if jimmy butler can cause lebron problems, hakeem will definitely destroy lebron
@mcjr1989 bru Butler isn't a shot blocker, and he doesn't kill folks in the paint like it's easy.
Put This Game On NBA TV Hardwood Classic On TV
should been the 97 Finals that year. I was soo pissed when Utah beat Houston in that Gm 6 in the WCF. I wanted it to be 97 Knicks-Bulls ECF, then 97 Bulls-Rockets Finals
Jazz 2 consecutive years in finals, they were a heavy team, ripe to compete in finals. Rockets were declining.