USB-C Power Delivery Hardware Design - Phil's Lab
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- USB Type C Power Delivery (PD) basics, part selection, schematic and PCB design, and test implementation. Learn how easy it is to incorporate USB-C PD into your own hardware designs!
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[TIMESTAMPS]
00:00 Introduction
01:06 Altium Designer Free Trial
01:44 USB-C Power Delivery Basics
04:10 USB PD Controllers
05:37 Controller Datasheet Walkthrough
10:37 Schematic Walkthrough
18:24 PCB Walkthrough
25:15 Demo: Non-USB-PD Connection
26:01 Demo: 15V 3A+ Electronic Load
29:27 Outro - Наука та технологія
I get excited in every single video he uploads! This channel is definitely black magic! Thank you!
Thank you very much, Sencer!
Black magic, can confirm. Answered every single pitfall I had regarding PD control systems. Do some wireless charge system topics and you can burgeon on dark wizardry.
This is awesome. I would love to see a video involving the opposite process of taking DC power and making a usb - C source device.
Thank you, Harrison - that's a great idea!
@@PhilsLab that would be super sweet pls do
There's a Chinese IC that does all that. It is designed to be used for power banks that support USB-C PD. I saw that in one of Great Scott's video.
These design videos are my favourite. Thank you, Phil.
Thanks Phil, another great video, looking forward to the next part.
And this video reminds us the internet stays up each night in anticipation of your imminent video on ESD and power filtering!
Thank you. Would love to see a video like this but additionally with lipo battery+charging.
Your channel is a diamond mine of information. Thank you!
This was much much needed, thank you again for making such great content!!
Thank you for watching, Gabriel!
Agreed!
Truly one of the best sources for professional electronics engineering on the net. Thank-you.
I'd love to see a similar video but using bidirectional source/sink of 100W, and also 240W. ICs for src/sink seem less available - TI has TPS25750 that I've been looking at for a 1S2P battery operated device.
It would be interesting to watch something about POE in a next video (like a power supply series). There must be many interesting things like POE classes, Ethernet transformers, MOSFET as diodes, power controllers, ets.. It could be a POE "injector" that adds POE capability to any Ethernet connection. Network drives, media centers, IP cameras, etc... these are possible consumers which likes POE
Good suggestions, thank you! I'll add them to the list of videos I want to make.
I was just wanting to write this. Having everything on WiFi is just annoying, and when I want to switch to cable - why take 2 cables (for Ethernet and DC power) when you can use just one
Yes PoE would be a very cool topic to dive into!
These videos are a breeze to watch even as an electronic noob. Thank you!
Thank you, glad to hear that!
Phil, nice design, as always, and lots of attention to details. Thumbs up for your work!
About a year ago I've designed USB-PD sink device, using STUSB1602 with STM32 uC. For some price-sensitive designs it's enough to use USB-PD triggers, such as WCH CH236. Docs are not as good as Cypress, TI, ST and other monsters, but it works too.
Thanks, Sergey - I'll look into those ICs!
I've spent the last few months trying to learn about how usb pd works, I tried studying datasheets and reference manuals but i only became more confused. Thanks for making this video it really helped me a lot 🙏❤
Very glad to hear that this is helpful, thank you!
This is great and complete. Thank you.
Great walk through of the process 👍
Thank you, Asger!
Exactly what I've been looking for! Thanks man!
Thanks for watching!
It would be awesome if you could make a video on wireless charging, particularly the type that are used in electric toothbrushes. There is scant resources out there, and it seems like a handy circuit for a lot of rechargeable applications.
Yay it’s online, can’t wait to watch it 🎉
Hope it was worth the extra wait! :)
Thanks for the video! Your channel is amazing.
Thank you, Bobby!
Hey Phil. Did you upload the follow up video regarding i2c communication with the st board?
thank you for the knowledge sharing, sir!
this is serious level explanation lucid with plain clear english and structure totally different from your daily ,,dosto`` videos ps the 4.7uF at the jack is a bit dangerous a bleeder should be there if your last device was 15 v and the next one you hook there is 3.3 things might go bad
Fantastic content. thank you
Thats very interesting! And just what I wanted to research next anyways. Thanks!
Awesome, hope it's useful!
@@PhilsLab Are you planning on making a usb-c pd power supply any time soon? I am wondering how you would build that and the best way to implement the different voltages :)
Excellent video. You should consider getting a camera and tripod for doing the demos.
Nice info, keep it up, thanks :)
I just love this stuff
Thanks, Dustin!
Very nice video Phil. Cheers. Also, are you still working on another course and if yes when will it be available?
Great video, Phil!
Have you managed to communicate with the PD controller via I2C? I don't see any details, nor the registers description in the datasheet. Have you found any?
Please also do a PD 3.1 Board with 140 or 240W!
What a great video. thank you. I am trying to build a 6 port usbc PD hub from household AC current. I was going to use a step down transformer to generate the 12v needed but wondering if this is a better approach. I dont need data, just power
I would love to be able to download this design and play with it. I don't see any links to it in the description.
Great video truly!!
Your tutorials are incredible and they make electronic so easy.
A slight clarification. If USB-PD IC is configured to get 3A at 15V (45W), is it possible to get a current above 5A at a lower voltage. (Eg: 6A at 7.5V) by sending through DC DC buck converter? Power losses are ignored.
Hello Philip
I'm still patiently waiting for the promised can bus application video. I'm very curious to see how a professional would do it. Cheers 😊
CAN bus. Yes please
Hi Brian, So many projects to show, so little time I'm afraid! It's still on my list of videos to make however :)
I use the Tag Connect headers on some boards, the only thing I don't like about their cables is that they internally connect pins in the connector for some of their cables so they are not generic. I.e. the 6 pin ATMEL IIC cable cannot be used for J-link, so you have to buy two cables that are exactly the same except for the internal shorting. They are a great design though, and really speed up programming multiple boards. I have a little power injection board between my ICE and the target board, so I can also power it as I program if needed. The ATMEL ICE by itself does not source power.
Yeah, that's a good point. I had one board for a Microchip MCU that had that 'issue' between various programmers. Other than that I love the gear and haven't used anything else since discovering them.
Saw some comments on how to basically reverse this video. That is, make a usb c power hub. That is what I am really interested in. I do not understand how before the hardware closed the bidirectional Power Switch/ Bus it negotiates that the voltages are correct on the other side. This would be great video for designing a usb c power hub.
Hi, Chapeau for your eloquent and very clear presentation.
Would the Altium .PrjPcb from this design be available. I looked everywhere. I also looked for the CY4533 data @ Infineon, hardly useful. I have Altium, so I can adapt the board to my mechanical requirements. Thanks in advance.
If it comes to simplicity, just use a CH224K. Costs much less than the CYPD3177 and has only 3 gpios ehich can be controled by a micro or jumpers
This is all fine and dandy, and yes you can get these boards for pennies on the site that shall not be named but I'm more interested in the reverse.. a board that contains a buck converter, an appropriate mcu and PD chip that can set the buck converter to supply the asked voltage. IE.. supply it with 12V from a generic source, then transform and regulate that voltage to what is asked on the PD port end of things. Why? for one, it would be a nice thing to have to convert existing fixed voltage PSU's to something more versatile , also it would be nice to have a cheap device that can supply the non spec 5V5A a PI5 asks for from standard 25watt delivered through a spec compliant PD supply. I've been on digikey but unlike with the IC's described in the video the ones doing the reverse , while i'm sure they exist, are somewhat elusive (to me) i'm probably not using the correct search terms. Any info from frankly anyone would be nice. Cheers.
Great videos Phil, love watching them! My question is, is there a possibility of connecting output of DACs to Vbus MIN/MAX and ISNK COUSE/FINE pins in order to have it controlled via MCU (connected to D+ and D- like you did in this board)? And if so, would it have some strict limitations in a sense not to exceed power limits (and possibly damage device) from the USB-C connector? Thanks for making these videos, very much helpful!
Thank you. for the SMD Cap sizes What are your Rules? Whats the size of Bigger Caps?
This is so amazing 🎉, I really enjoyed working this, but please do you have a video on firmware for stm32 talking to pd controller ?
I was reading many datasheets for the pd controller and your video class helped me a lot, It would be more helpful if you could show how to do the pcb design, Any way I wanted to connect output to piezo speaker KEMO L010 speaker. Thank you.
Hello, I enjoyed the video.
Is it possible to do it the other way?
I have a DC barrel type adapter and I want to change the connector part to PD type.
Hi, I couldn't find any playlists about KiCad for beginners, do you have any videos on that? Thanks!
I have been trying to work out what the VDDD and VCCD lines are for, which wasn't really explained.
According to the datasheet (Page 5), the VDDD line is a 3.3V output that can be used for the VBUS_MIN, VBUS_MAX, ISNK_CRS and ISNK_FIN lines, so I'm guessing these lines don't necessarily need an external 3.3v buck converter like you have.
Funny enough, Page 4 also says an external source of 2.7 V-5.5 V can be used to *power* the IC on VDDD line if nothing is being supplied to VBUS_IN.
Still trying to work out VCCD, which also seems to be a 1.8v output. The only reference I could find for this line was "Output voltage for core Logic", but just goes to ground anyways?
I didn't know USB-C can deliver 100W. That's amazing
Very timely for me! I have nothing to add except there are only two kinds of slashes. Slash and back-slash. Linux like slashes. Microsoft likes back-slashes.
Thanks for the video! It would be awesome to see some hardware design powered with POE. Did you ever designed something like that?
Thanks, Enzo - I'm afraid not but I'll look into it!
Please do something on the pd source also. There are not many resources on designing usb pd source.
Thanks for the nice video. Just recently did a design using an OrangePi zero2 that powers from USB-C. Fortunately they have a +5V input header pin. My only complaint is they are making this stuff too dam small these days, soon we will all need a wire bonder to build our prototypes.
Thanks, Craig! Yeah.. I don't assembly anything myself days - that being one of the reasons.
Did you make that follow up video with I2C comm to the PD controller?
It seems to me that a lot of these PD controllers don't detail the I2C communication for host MCU, hoping this one stands out.
The Tag connect header is interesting but not small at all. Once a connecto is smaller then a USB C connecter then maybe it is small
Can you publish the schematic of this board ? either in pdf or in altium file would be very helpful!!! i am intersted in the vconn connection , should it be connected or not ? is it mandatory ? What is hte purpose of the R18 20k PD resistor , it seems none mandatory you can drive the mosfet directly no ?
Interesting. I've noticed that on USB3.x that just connecting the SS USB pairs is enough to get full USB3 up. No USB2 needed!
What's the longest cable you can use for USBC PD, for 100W or 240W?
Great video as allways! Here are a few questions/notes:
1 isn't the input capacitance to much for the USB standard? yes they will be derated but still
2 Why you didn't use a LDO ? asking since this setup will use so little current the area for the buck may not be worth it economically + that inductor is so large you could even fit a large Dpack LDO in there for probably less cost
3 you said you had a few STM32 s around, did you hand assemble the board or was a PCBA ed?
4 IF a voltage is not supported like lets say 15V will this error out and got to 5V ?
5 IF there are 2 available voltages in your range will it go for the lower one or the higher one?
6 Why did you go with a common source Pmos and not a common Drain ? ( also same question for cases where a configuration is not explicitly said in the datasheet)
7 Is there a standard pin out for that connector you showcased?
Thanks!
- "Additional VBUS capacitance is permitted to be located/isolated behind a VBUS load switch (which is also required, due to the “cold-socket” nature of USB Type-C where VBUS is not energized until a valid USB-C Rp->Rd terminated connection is detected)"
- High Vin-Vout, even at 50-100mA can give 1 to 1.5W dissipation at max VBUS.
- PCBA. My stock is with them.
- Fallback voltage (5V) as discussed in the video, otherwise lowest PD voltage power source can support.
- dual PMOS was whatever was cheap and in stock with an easy footprint, following datasheet guidelines.
- TagConnect pinout is somewhat unified but still depends on cable. Their site gives more details.
Phil, thanks this video very usefull!. Im also designed my own usb-pd based project and use video to verify my design before manufacturing.
One important note about your design: you have 2x4.7uF( one in schematic near connector and another one near mosfet) input capacitance and i not sure if it meets usb-c spec because spec limits maximum inrush current by setting upper limit to input capacitance of 10uF to limit maximum inrush current, given the capacitor capacitance can be x2 times the rated one, you design may or may not exceed this limit set by usb-c spec. Also if you look at datasheet of usb-pd ic its input capacitance 3.3+1 uF which is even given twice the capacitance would likely exceed 10uF actual capacitance. Please correct me if im wrong
Thank you, Igor!
I'm not sure where you're getting 'double capacitance' from. If anything, these types of ceramic caps are severely derated by the DC bias (up to 80%). The design has less than 10uF capacitance directly at the input, in addition to having slew rate limiting on the load switch, so no problems there.
Thank you Phil for the Video. Looking forward to every one of them. I just have one question
When I want to charge a LiPo Battery with USB C say with 1A at 5V with a lipo charger IC. Can I just work with the Resistors on the CC-Lines? Or do I also need an IC to request the Power, because there could be a Power Supply, which doesn't deliver enough Power. Or is it safe to just use 1A at 5V. Thank you
Hey, very interesting Video. Do you perhaps also planning a Video how to design a POE „Client“ , like a POE HAT for a Raspberry, or such like this (or a POE to USB-PD converter,…) 👍
Have you considered using STM32G0 or G4 with integrated USB PD PHY instead of dedicated chip?
+1 for this idea. I was also interested in this feature while working with g0 as they are pretty cheap and so useful
11:19 can i use ATMEGA 328 P instead of STM 32
Why did you end up using a buck converter? If I’m understanding correctly pin 23 already provides 3.3 v
Hi Phil, I think you have the answer to a lot of people's problems. What I mean is that new laptops come with USB C charging and more than often the USB C connector gets bent or breaks but the connector cannnot be swapped because the charger then defaults to 5 volts as there is no PD Negoation. As a result, a fair new charger brick is wasted and new one has to be purchased wich contributes to electrical waste etc. The solution to this problem would be try to make a device like in this video that allows you to add a new connector but also does the PD Negotiation with the charger it does supply the voltage the laptop or device negotiates. Can this little board do this? or is there something you can make that allows this? For example, When I cut off my USB C connector on a Dell Charger, I have 3 wires Blue, White and Black but when I added a new connector I cant get it to go above 5volts. Would you be interested in solving this problem and maybe even creating a mini board for sale? You can scan the forums and this is a huge issue across the globe with USB C connectors
Can i put power to dc jack and usb c to out put power ? This circuit can use bidirectional?
I am curious, do your boards work the first time every time ?
For example, your very first FPGA board you designed, did it work on the first try ? Just curious to know
I do a lot of checks for every design, so usually things work first time. Even larger projects, such as the ZettBrett.
That's not to stay that I don't mess things up occasionally - I do, but then I can usually fix that with a 'bodge wire' (e.g. RX/TX lines flipped, or something 'silly'). *Touch wood* so far there hasn't been a project that required a 'complete' redo, where I had to chuck the boards in the bin.
@@PhilsLab I was wondering that too since you seamlessly transition from design to assembled board and it always seems to work in your videos. And I was also wondering if you are ever planning to make a video about your workflow on a project from idea to finished board, since it seems to be a pretty disciplined workflow. Stuff like listing out ideas/required features, folder structure, git versioning, documentation for yourself etc.
I screwed up quite a bit of rev A boards with FPGA. I now have my own "box of shame" with all those botched PCBs. I got better at it over time, but still mess things up every once in a while.
@@asmi06 I think most of us are like that, we should not be ashamed about it
Any type c solution for charging 24V batteries?
24:18 Question for the Tag-Connect Header: Why does it have 4 larger holes around the perimeter of the footprint? As far as I could see they are not needed for the Tag-Connect itself?
That's the 'with legs' version, where the cable has some 'clamps' built-in. Otherwise, the 'no-legs' version (without the additional holes) need a retainer clip.
Does anyone know if there are any solutions out there for e.g. adding a USB-C PD port to an existing DC power supply? I have one made from an ATX computer power supply, and I'd love to be able to access something like 100W via USB-C PD, supplied by the ATX supply. I'm using one of those Chinese boards which take the ATX connector input and break it out to individual positive/GND for each voltage (3.3, 5, 9, 12, -12).
I've been looking for a way to use e.g. the 12V output as a power source for a USB-C port providing PD, but it seems that all the resources online are for the opposite (as in, making simple 'adjustable' power supplies by using a USB-C wall adapter and one of those PD "trigger" boards).
What I want to do is more like if you imagined the demo board from this video, but with a DC barrel jack for the input and a USB-C female connector for the output.
I'm actually surprised the usual Chinese sources don't seem to be supplying anything like this.
I'm sure it could be done with some effort if I butchered an existing PD wall adapter and inserted the DC input in place of the AC circuitry and rectifier, but I'd much prefer a proper solution without any hidden surprises. There's also the fact that the wall adapter components would be configuring voltage/current limits for the PD negotiations, so I wouldn't get 100W from a 65W adapter (plus, there's the risk that the components used aren't rated for 100W).
Hello sir,
I need to know,
The USB PD chip canbe used without microcontroller. And Its also have its own 3.3V integrated voltage regulator so why we can not use this 3.3V supply to the ISNK and VBUS voltage divider resistor.
why do thin cables cause the voltage drop?
Can anyone please explain to me why Q1B is needed? i am very confused. if we have the the gate at logic low and Q1A conducts but wont Q1B then act as a deterrent for current as the esd diode wont let it conduct the other way. please help
and can this be used to charge a battery for example connected where the Barrel jack is.
Hi, can you maybe provide what USB-C power supply you are using? I have 5 chargers at home And I am not able to negotiate 15V@3A with any of them. 20V is working fine.
Can I use a laptop usb C PD port to act as a source? Ex: power a 12v device from a laptop usb c pd port?
most of this goes above my head, but i'm wondering if you can put a micro-usb power output as well? Or is there a better way to convert usb-c to micro-usb-a?
You could but it would only be good for 5v. You could easily blow something up if you’re pulling too much power.
Q: who needs a stinking #license to Phil in?
Greetings to engineer Furkan Kara.
Can you help explain why my S23 Ultra which is said has USB3.2 and it fast charges depending on charger so has USB PD capability.
why is it not giving an external nvme enclosure that draws between 5W to 10W the power it needs.
Does the NVME enclosure need to have PD built in? but since it isn't working... why is it working on windows and not complain about the nvme drive drawing high power?
Certainly everybody must be having problems with external nvme enclosures with new nvme drives not getting enough power to it?
How can I just create a usb 3.0 usb-c without PD just Data Communication?
When you are going to publish your High Speed Design Course?
Currently uploading the first few lessons. Mid-May is the target.
@@PhilsLab looking forward to it!
Can you make battery charge pcb?😅😅
The last part of this video would have been a perfect excuse to pull out a thermal camera.
Guess that's my excuse to buy one for future videos!
Too bad there are no ICs that support 240W yet. That would bring completely new possibilities. Especially in e-mobility. How cool would it be if you could charge your e-scooter directly with 48V with USBC? 😅
Hynetek has a 240W sink i.e HUSB238A. Infineon also has some but they're not selling them to us mere mortals yet. ST has an all-in-one AC to USB PD 3.1 IC
👍🙏❤
No banana for scale?
I'm afraid not this time :(
We are waiting for video of 100k subscribers and its gift
I like your videos but , could you not boooooooooom so much. My neighbors really appreciate it. :P