About the lumiat having small glimpses of evil, if sacha came after her, that would explain his insanity. For a whole incarnation the rage was built up.
It also lines up with a quote from Sacha in Spyfall Part 2. Where he talks about how being evil makes him feel like he’s doing what he was actually made for and how killing people gives him that special feeling. Almost like he’s remembering being the Lumiat and is disgusted that he’d ever be something like that
Look I don’t mind them bringing the Master back. But I wish they had at least had a line to explain what happened! I hate that they just ignored such a significant ending to the character in The Doctor Falls.
my problem was that when they brought back the master it was as a clone of john simm's performance and i wasn't a huge fan of that the first time round
@@somthingbrutal although John simm’s incarnation is my favorite, I do agree that the newest version was a bit of a copy, which was a bit annoying. I thought that every version of the master had to bring something new, but I suppose not.
Do you think Chibnall or the bbc care, heck do you think whittaker or the rest of the people involved care no they don't and they never have and never will
My headcannon is dhawan is an incarnation before missy whether after Simm and before missy or another incarnation we haven’t seen yet like the ones between Dreyfus 1st master and Delgados Master
Well he can’t be pre Delgado because he references the events of Logopolis and the Deadly assassin. And he can’t be a stolen body because Mastermind revealed that human bodies decay rapidly if the master possess them
@@docprod No the decaying master was the thirteenth, delgadi was twelfth, alex mcqueen's master was the start of a new regeneration cycle for the time war to help the time lords, which he avoided getting involved in untill he became the war master, derek jacobi's master, then simm and in my head canon missy, I don't count after series 10 but I think if the sacha master was canon to me he'd be after missy and no not an incarnation of the lumiat in fact I choose not to accept that as acnon either it's so stupid, and no I don't count the novel or comic incarnations especially not the child master that was even worse, timelords have never been able to regenerate into children why push this nonsense and stupidity
I still feel that Timeless Child should actually be a red herring and it actually was Master who was TC. It would work with the idea that he had survived moments that weren't possible for other Time Lords (even if at the time seemingly achieved by his lawless actions and methods, fueled by the belief that he can actually die). But with Missy, he actually decided its finally his end - which unfortunately lead to his revival. After that Master would travel to Gallifrey to seek the answers for the impossible survival, where he would find that he was the ever tortured Timeless Child. Add an idea where Doctor was also involved in the creation of immortality and you actually get a good explanation for Dhawan Master to be after Missy. It would make Doctor less special born - would make him again a nobody who got everything, through hard work. Which would clash perfectly with Master who was supposed to be worshipped and cherrished as Timeless Child, but instead lost everything and only met pain and aggression.
And when you think about is, the Master looked into the skism when he was a kid. Now that he knows of the Timeless Child he puts together some of the mind breaking things he saw in it. It's cuz there are lifetimes he has experienced but was forced to forget.
I feel like it would be better if both the Doctor and the Master were the Timeless Children, It would strengthen their bond and it’d make sense that the Master hid his identity from the Doctor only showing her hers. Also it would keep the canon of previous episodes valid and give the producers an excuse to keep the show going even longer.
Thinking about the Master’s incarnations, I like the idea that Big Finish did with a Time Lord called The Eleven. One of the incarnations (I believe the Eight) was good while the others were all inherently evil. The Lumiette(?) seems to follow this idea so I like it.
Have this feeling that maybe, all time lords gotta have an incarnation with a different personality or morality, the Doctor got the Valeyard, the Master has the Lumiat, and the Eleven has the Eight. and maybe also why Rassilon became a dick
Interesting viewpoint…might even help in explaining how Borusa turned corrupt just before “The Five Doctors” as prior to then, Borusa and The Doctor were closest of friends, with Borusa having been The Doctor’s mentor at the Academy…🤔
To me it just exemplifies the tragedy of the Master; no matter what they do, they’re simply fated to live this life of solitude, misery and failure forever
I mean it still isn't explained in the main series. Dhawan could be easily post Simms Master. Even, if Lumiat would be introduced in main show, she could still be introduced as pre-Missy incarnation, as she is supposed to be what Valeyard/Dreamlord is for Doctor - an alterego that always is there. And if she was post Missy that would still keep the idea of Master turning good, with potentially Lumiat being the last incarnation.
Ooo really interesting concept!! I love the idea to be honest :D I wonder if Dhawan's Master will ever be explained! It would be really exciting to see where he originated from! :) Awesome video! :D
The thing is the Lumiat can’t just regenerate into Sacha Dawan’s incarnation. The next regeneration has to go to Gallifrey, find out the secret, go to Earth, ambush O and shrink him down whilst regenerating into a lookalike of him.
I don't remember it ever being stated that Dhawan ever looked like the original "O". Just that he took the guys place on his first day so noone knew what he looked like
@@mr.scarlo2234 that depends on when the Doctor met O before and if the Master used hypnosis to get into MI6 more easily. All we know is that Sacha’s master took O’s identity which doesn’t necessarily mean he took his body. You can perform identity theft without looking like the person specifically
I have this head cannon in wich regeneration cycles created out of an Elysium field alternate berween good and evil. So the Lumiat would be good with all evil supressed, her next incarnation would be evil with all the good supressed (potentially Sasha's version) then the version after that would be good again, and so on
At first I hated the idea that my favourite master (Dhawan) came from the lumiat, but now with this video, i really like that idea! I can really see a burned and broken Missy crawling out of what's left of the forest and trying to resurrect herself.
TheUnknownEditor07 but he say her mind Split into two one good one evil and Dhahran is evil lumiat is good I like missy she was better I like dhawan but he doesn’t feel sinister he just angry which I like I hope he get better
@@kingdiamond8875 Good point. What if Missy split-regenerate into Lumiat ( good side ) and Spy Master ( evil side ). We saw Missy can be calm and think in clear mind, where Dhawan is pure chaos, anger and insanity. Lumiat seems to has this calm from Missy, but she doesn't have this pure chaos and insanity, what Sacha has.
I personally think the Dahawan Master may have started off as good. But i feek like for the Master to distory everything they are to become the Lumiat, to become the Doctor's equal, only to find out that the doctor will always be better. Just made the Master snap.
Bro, imagine getting shot in the back by yourself for trying to be good using it forbidden technique to regenerate just to get killed by the same version of you that got shot before they learn to be good being The master is a vicious cycle.
I’ve been playing with the theory that the doctor is sharing a body with missy as both originally died until Bill brought him back to life allowing missy to piggyback into his next regeneration into Jodie’s doctor ( this could explain both the sex change after all this time being male and why she feels off to most fans ) something we learn at the end of of her term as the doctor as the plot line that ends in a double regeneration of both into separate body’s as for Sasha I was thinking he actually predates Saxon
I don't necessarily take the Lumiat as canon, mostly because I really want Gina McKee as the Fourteenth Doctor, but I do like how it reinforces the idea that Missy really was trying to be good at the end of things. And whether it results in the Lumiat or simply Dhawan's Master trying to be good before he goes to Gallifrey, I do appreciate this bit of canon spackle. There is this story in Twelve Angels Weeping though, 'Anything You Can Do', with (spoilers) a male Master copying what the Doctor does - 'saving' people, and an ambiguously gendered Doctor. There's no real reference. as to which incarnations they are, just that the Master has a beard and their TARDIS can take the shape of a clock. It could equally be Three and Delgado or Twelve and Simm or even some future unknown versions. And though the time of publication rules out the story being written with Dhawan explicitly in mind, that same date of publication and the use of they/them pronouns for the Doctor does make it easy to assume that the Doctor is meant to be Thirteen. And I just really like interpreting the story as being an early version of Dhawan's Master trying to be more like the Doctor only to do it wrong and then a post-Fugitive Doctor finding this too young version and having to clean up his mess. (Also, I like the little nod to rosie's fanart of the Lumiat in your photo edit!)
I mean Gina could play both. And it would actually fit the idea we have seen before in the series, with Capaldi taking the face of Pompeian father. Lumiat taking the face of the Doctor would make sense, for her as reminder who she wants to be from now on.
Well there's many different types of things for regeneration, like the elixir of life, the field is just like that basically another way to cause regeneration. I'll find more info for ya
Not sure about this I thought it was explained back in the deadly assassin in the classic Doctor who that the master had used up all of his regeneration cycles, and in the keeper of Tralen the master stole somebody's body because he can no longer regenerate this even happened in the 1996 Doctor who movie The Master took over someone else's body. So I do not see how the master can regenerate now. I always had hope we'd find out Missy was actually the Rana, a renegade female Time Lord the doctor has known since his younger days.
It's already been explained though, during the time war they granted the master a second regeneration cycle to get him to help with the time war and cause he bargained some time lords for it to give it to the decaying master after he stopped possessing eric roberts body
I love the idea of the Lumiat. I see plenty of people complaining that the Missy’s character arc was completely ignored for the Spy Master to appear but the Lumiat actually does disprove that claim in an extremely satisfying way. Sacha told us that he sadly won’t return to play the Master(BIGGEST WASTED OPPORTUNITY SINCE THE ENTIRE TIMELESS CHILD FIASCO!!!) but hopefully the Lamiat might be that incarnation of the Master that will appear in Gadwa’s tenure!
Strictly speaking no, the lumiat regenerates but we never know if she goes immediately into sacha or not so the information he has so far is all true just we don't know her full story.
It's so stupid just no, it's fan fiction and awful fan fiction at that, just like series 11 and 12 none of it should or can be canon, also for people who love tl say canon doesn't matter, you sure do seem to love obsessively trying to make all this awful garbage canon when it has no place to fit in canon and contradicts everything that came before
Missy did not regenerate, the Lumiat tells that the machine that Missy was said to have used to survive that Missy woudnt use it cause she didnt want to become The Lumiat. this would mean that the whole Lumiat doesnt exist, resulting in O being before Missy and after Saxon. also if you watch there is far to much evidence proving that O is before Missy and one big one being that Missy had no TARDIS, she had no Vortex Manipulator so how on earth if she did survive did she get off the ship?! O has a TARDIS and the only Master we know that had a TARDIS anywhere near the ship was Saxon. Also Missy tells Clara that she knew the Doctor as a little girl and the only Master to see that is O, Missy also knows the location of Gallifrey yet she was never on Gallifrey after it was put in its pocket universe but who was? yep it was O. we know that Missy was unable to regenerate and i highly doubt this field if she did activate it would expand through the entire time and space. she also has no technology except her sonic brolly. the only sources that claim O is after is come a non canon annual and a audio which the writer herself is only canon to her. she wanted to end Missy's story the way she would have liked it to end. i would love for O (who is by far the worst Master IMO) to be after her but it makes far more sense and is much better if he was before Missy. as i said far to much evidence points to him being before than there is to him being after her, the fact that we have seen Doctors who have been from previous points in the Doctor's Timeline doesnt mean that every Master is after the other, heck ive even seen that there is a Master in one of the First Doctor audio stories which everyone seems to accept but the concept of O being before Missy is completely unacceptable! talk about double standards, until there is actual prove that in canon shows Missy regenerated im going with what is shown already in the series and that is pointed O to be before Missy
John simms master is eighteenth, missy is the nineteenth, and sacha dawhan could be after her, the lumiat is just stupid, also I don't even count series 11 and 12 canon they are awful, and the master has came back from dead numerous times, missy obviously didn't die forever why do fans believe that or accept that, he's died numerous times before and died in series 3 with a permanent death in the same way except that he chose to die
@@TheRealUnkn0wn_289 john simm is the second Master of the new cycle not the eighteenth, the Master died in the Movie then was resurrected for the Time War as Derek Jacobi who is the War Master, he changes to John Simm who changes to O and Missy is the 4th Master and sadly the last one of that cycle. Missy does infact die on screen, we actually see her die and she was unable to regenerate thanks to Saxon disabling her ability to regenerate. Missy did use the field to change to the Lumiat but because she met the Lumiat before it happened she then changed her future by refusing to use the field to become the Lumiat. This means that O is after Saxon and all the evidence (i have looked it up) all points to him being before her not after
In the Doctor Who Annual 2021 there's a conversation between the Doctor and the Master where the Doctor mentions Missy having wanted to change and the Master responds "She spent too long in your company, Doctor, a mistake I don't intend to repeat"
@@tardisfalls9595 So did you expect everyone to only write in prior incarnations or simply not have the Master at all? Just look at how all the manbabies whined about prior Doctors lol. Chibbers can't win, no matter what he does.
About the lumiat having small glimpses of evil, if sacha came after her, that would explain his insanity. For a whole incarnation the rage was built up.
It also lines up with a quote from Sacha in Spyfall Part 2. Where he talks about how being evil makes him feel like he’s doing what he was actually made for and how killing people gives him that special feeling. Almost like he’s remembering being the Lumiat and is disgusted that he’d ever be something like that
Fans: still confused whether Sacha Dhawan’s Master takes place before or after Missy
Big Finish: Now this looks like a job for me
I swear, half of big finish's job is to clean up half though ideas the bbc didn't bother to explain.
I hope the lumiat returns in the next series of Dr who..............🤠
Aye
we're well it depends who the showrunner is. . . I can imagine if chibnall is still in charge the lumiat will be heavily misused lol
would love that
@@leviroch the lumiat can't really be used without the approval from big finish since they made the character.
Look I don’t mind them bringing the Master back. But I wish they had at least had a line to explain what happened! I hate that they just ignored such a significant ending to the character in The Doctor Falls.
It annoyed me so much too
Me too!
my problem was that when they brought back the master it was as a clone of john simm's performance and i wasn't a huge fan of that the first time round
@@somthingbrutal although John simm’s incarnation is my favorite, I do agree that the newest version was a bit of a copy, which was a bit annoying. I thought that every version of the master had to bring something new, but I suppose not.
Do you think Chibnall or the bbc care, heck do you think whittaker or the rest of the people involved care no they don't and they never have and never will
My headcannon is dhawan is an incarnation before missy whether after Simm and before missy or another incarnation we haven’t seen yet like the ones between Dreyfus 1st master and Delgados Master
Well he can’t be pre Delgado because he references the events of Logopolis and the Deadly assassin. And he can’t be a stolen body because Mastermind revealed that human bodies decay rapidly if the master possess them
delgado was the last proper incarnation
@@docprod No the decaying master was the thirteenth, delgadi was twelfth, alex mcqueen's master was the start of a new regeneration cycle for the time war to help the time lords, which he avoided getting involved in untill he became the war master, derek jacobi's master, then simm and in my head canon missy, I don't count after series 10 but I think if the sacha master was canon to me he'd be after missy and no not an incarnation of the lumiat in fact I choose not to accept that as acnon either it's so stupid, and no I don't count the novel or comic incarnations especially not the child master that was even worse, timelords have never been able to regenerate into children why push this nonsense and stupidity
I still feel that Timeless Child should actually be a red herring and it actually was Master who was TC. It would work with the idea that he had survived moments that weren't possible for other Time Lords (even if at the time seemingly achieved by his lawless actions and methods, fueled by the belief that he can actually die).
But with Missy, he actually decided its finally his end - which unfortunately lead to his revival. After that Master would travel to Gallifrey to seek the answers for the impossible survival, where he would find that he was the ever tortured Timeless Child. Add an idea where Doctor was also involved in the creation of immortality and you actually get a good explanation for Dhawan Master to be after Missy.
It would make Doctor less special born - would make him again a nobody who got everything, through hard work. Which would clash perfectly with Master who was supposed to be worshipped and cherrished as Timeless Child, but instead lost everything and only met pain and aggression.
And when you think about is, the Master looked into the skism when he was a kid. Now that he knows of the Timeless Child he puts together some of the mind breaking things he saw in it. It's cuz there are lifetimes he has experienced but was forced to forget.
I feel like it would be better if both the Doctor and the Master were the Timeless Children,
It would strengthen their bond and it’d make sense that the Master hid his identity from the Doctor only showing her hers.
Also it would keep the canon of previous episodes valid and give the producers an excuse to keep the show going even longer.
I still wish we saw regeneration energy coming from Simm as he descended in the elevator
Yeah at least his hand because he had a chance to get a coffee first.
Thinking about the Master’s incarnations, I like the idea that Big Finish did with a Time Lord called The Eleven. One of the incarnations (I believe the Eight) was good while the others were all inherently evil. The Lumiette(?) seems to follow this idea so I like it.
Have this feeling that maybe, all time lords gotta have an incarnation with a different personality or morality, the Doctor got the Valeyard, the Master has the Lumiat, and the Eleven has the Eight. and maybe also why Rassilon became a dick
Interesting viewpoint…might even help in explaining how Borusa turned corrupt just before “The Five Doctors” as prior to then, Borusa and The Doctor were closest of friends, with Borusa having been The Doctor’s mentor at the Academy…🤔
I can't be the only one who wanted the masters arc to end with missy? It just makes her character seem redundant now
To me it just exemplifies the tragedy of the Master; no matter what they do, they’re simply fated to live this life of solitude, misery and failure forever
I mean it still isn't explained in the main series. Dhawan could be easily post Simms Master. Even, if Lumiat would be introduced in main show, she could still be introduced as pre-Missy incarnation, as she is supposed to be what Valeyard/Dreamlord is for Doctor - an alterego that always is there. And if she was post Missy that would still keep the idea of Master turning good, with potentially Lumiat being the last incarnation.
Ooo really interesting concept!! I love the idea to be honest :D I wonder if Dhawan's Master will ever be explained! It would be really exciting to see where he originated from! :) Awesome video! :D
4:01 well that’s an image I’m never going to get out my brain!
The thing is the Lumiat can’t just regenerate into Sacha Dawan’s incarnation. The next regeneration has to go to Gallifrey, find out the secret, go to Earth, ambush O and shrink him down whilst regenerating into a lookalike of him.
I don't remember it ever being stated that Dhawan ever looked like the original "O". Just that he took the guys place on his first day so noone knew what he looked like
Ace Creeper, but the real O was shrunk down with the TCE. So he must’ve regenerated so that he could look like him.
Mr. Scarlo remember, he had a perception filter. Also he could’ve easily hacked into O’s records and altered them to fit his appearance
Ace Creeper the compressed minature kind of looked of him
@@mr.scarlo2234 that depends on when the Doctor met O before and if the Master used hypnosis to get into MI6 more easily. All we know is that Sacha’s master took O’s identity which doesn’t necessarily mean he took his body. You can perform identity theft without looking like the person specifically
This is (partly) why I love Big Finish. Filling the holes in the show is so desperate to forget about, haha.
Thanks, I like the theory.
Agreed makes me kinda wish THESE would be animated..
But by a great animation company that could do it justice.
I have this head cannon in wich regeneration cycles created out of an Elysium field alternate berween good and evil. So the Lumiat would be good with all evil supressed, her next incarnation would be evil with all the good supressed (potentially Sasha's version) then the version after that would be good again, and so on
At first I hated the idea that my favourite master (Dhawan) came from the lumiat, but now with this video, i really like that idea! I can really see a burned and broken Missy crawling out of what's left of the forest and trying to resurrect herself.
TheUnknownEditor07 but he say her mind Split into two one good one evil and Dhahran is evil lumiat is good I like missy she was better I like dhawan but he doesn’t feel sinister he just angry which I like I hope he get better
🙄
@@TheRealUnkn0wn_289 ?
@@kingdiamond8875 Good point. What if Missy split-regenerate into Lumiat ( good side ) and Spy Master ( evil side ). We saw Missy can be calm and think in clear mind, where Dhawan is pure chaos, anger and insanity. Lumiat seems to has this calm from Missy, but she doesn't have this pure chaos and insanity, what Sacha has.
The lumiat could become the Doctor’s wife creating a loop
Brilliant idea!
I personally think the Dahawan Master may have started off as good. But i feek like for the Master to distory everything they are to become the Lumiat, to become the Doctor's equal, only to find out that the doctor will always be better. Just made the Master snap.
There’s a chance to replace the Doctor with another time lord that way
Bro, imagine getting shot in the back by yourself for trying to be good using it forbidden technique to regenerate just to get killed by the same version of you that got shot before they learn to be good being The master is a vicious cycle.
Interesting video, I really need to get into Big Finish it seems. Nearly done with Classic Who.
From what I have read the tie in is just a coincidence. Has it ever been said that this is the official explanation of how the master is still alive.
I’ve been playing with the theory that the doctor is sharing a body with missy as both originally died until Bill brought him back to life allowing missy to piggyback into his next regeneration into Jodie’s doctor ( this could explain both the sex change after all this time being male and why she feels off to most fans ) something we learn at the end of of her term as the doctor as the plot line that ends in a double regeneration of both into separate body’s as for Sasha I was thinking he actually predates Saxon
I don't necessarily take the Lumiat as canon, mostly because I really want Gina McKee as the Fourteenth Doctor, but I do like how it reinforces the idea that Missy really was trying to be good at the end of things. And whether it results in the Lumiat or simply Dhawan's Master trying to be good before he goes to Gallifrey, I do appreciate this bit of canon spackle.
There is this story in Twelve Angels Weeping though, 'Anything You Can Do', with (spoilers) a male Master copying what the Doctor does - 'saving' people, and an ambiguously gendered Doctor. There's no real reference. as to which incarnations they are, just that the Master has a beard and their TARDIS can take the shape of a clock. It could equally be Three and Delgado or Twelve and Simm or even some future unknown versions. And though the time of publication rules out the story being written with Dhawan explicitly in mind, that same date of publication and the use of they/them pronouns for the Doctor does make it easy to assume that the Doctor is meant to be Thirteen.
And I just really like interpreting the story as being an early version of Dhawan's Master trying to be more like the Doctor only to do it wrong and then a post-Fugitive Doctor finding this too young version and having to clean up his mess.
(Also, I like the little nod to rosie's fanart of the Lumiat in your photo edit!)
I mean Gina could play both. And it would actually fit the idea we have seen before in the series, with Capaldi taking the face of Pompeian father. Lumiat taking the face of the Doctor would make sense, for her as reminder who she wants to be from now on.
Derek Jacobi played an Unbound Doctor, so Gina one day may be able to play The Doctor too.
I really hope Chibnall atleast mentions the Lumiate in some way
You should rank theme songs (unless you already have)
Hey ace I would love to see her regenerate into sacha Dhwan
So there's a forbidden Gallifreyan Ritual that somehow forces regeneration when it should not be possible? Any more information on this?
Well there's many different types of things for regeneration, like the elixir of life, the field is just like that basically another way to cause regeneration. I'll find more info for ya
Ace have you seen the new b&M figure sets that are coming out this October could you make a video on itand your overall thoughts
Not sure about this I thought it was explained back in the deadly assassin in the classic Doctor who that the master had used up all of his regeneration cycles, and in the keeper of Tralen the master stole somebody's body because he can no longer regenerate this even happened in the 1996 Doctor who movie The Master took over someone else's body. So I do not see how the master can regenerate now. I always had hope we'd find out Missy was actually the Rana, a renegade female Time Lord the doctor has known since his younger days.
It's already been explained though, during the time war they granted the master a second regeneration cycle to get him to help with the time war and cause he bargained some time lords for it to give it to the decaying master after he stopped possessing eric roberts body
I love the idea of the Lumiat. I see plenty of people complaining that the Missy’s character arc was completely ignored for the Spy Master to appear but the Lumiat actually does disprove that claim in an extremely satisfying way.
Sacha told us that he sadly won’t return to play the Master(BIGGEST WASTED OPPORTUNITY SINCE THE ENTIRE TIMELESS CHILD FIASCO!!!) but hopefully the Lamiat might be that incarnation of the Master that will appear in Gadwa’s tenure!
Don’t mind the lumiat, still think the spy master is pre missy though
And now Big Finish makes a spinoff about a new regeneration of the Lumiat and ruins this video lol.
Strictly speaking no, the lumiat regenerates but we never know if she goes immediately into sacha or not so the information he has so far is all true just we don't know her full story.
It's so stupid just no, it's fan fiction and awful fan fiction at that, just like series 11 and 12 none of it should or can be canon, also for people who love tl say canon doesn't matter, you sure do seem to love obsessively trying to make all this awful garbage canon when it has no place to fit in canon and contradicts everything that came before
@@TheRealUnkn0wn_289 yeah, no. Chibs run has been really awful, but unfortunately this is the canon until it gets redconed by other showrunners.
can you make a video on who is the Eleven (Mark Bonnar) and also about his incarnations?
Missy did not regenerate, the Lumiat tells that the machine that Missy was said to have used to survive that Missy woudnt use it cause she didnt want to become The Lumiat. this would mean that the whole Lumiat doesnt exist, resulting in O being before Missy and after Saxon. also if you watch there is far to much evidence proving that O is before Missy and one big one being that Missy had no TARDIS, she had no Vortex Manipulator so how on earth if she did survive did she get off the ship?! O has a TARDIS and the only Master we know that had a TARDIS anywhere near the ship was Saxon. Also Missy tells Clara that she knew the Doctor as a little girl and the only Master to see that is O, Missy also knows the location of Gallifrey yet she was never on Gallifrey after it was put in its pocket universe but who was? yep it was O.
we know that Missy was unable to regenerate and i highly doubt this field if she did activate it would expand through the entire time and space. she also has no technology except her sonic brolly. the only sources that claim O is after is come a non canon annual and a audio which the writer herself is only canon to her. she wanted to end Missy's story the way she would have liked it to end. i would love for O (who is by far the worst Master IMO) to be after her but it makes far more sense and is much better if he was before Missy. as i said far to much evidence points to him being before than there is to him being after her, the fact that we have seen Doctors who have been from previous points in the Doctor's Timeline doesnt mean that every Master is after the other, heck ive even seen that there is a Master in one of the First Doctor audio stories which everyone seems to accept but the concept of O being before Missy is completely unacceptable! talk about double standards, until there is actual prove that in canon shows Missy regenerated im going with what is shown already in the series and that is pointed O to be before Missy
John simms master is eighteenth, missy is the nineteenth, and sacha dawhan could be after her, the lumiat is just stupid, also I don't even count series 11 and 12 canon they are awful, and the master has came back from dead numerous times, missy obviously didn't die forever why do fans believe that or accept that, he's died numerous times before and died in series 3 with a permanent death in the same way except that he chose to die
@@TheRealUnkn0wn_289 john simm is the second Master of the new cycle not the eighteenth, the Master died in the Movie then was resurrected for the Time War as Derek Jacobi who is the War Master, he changes to John Simm who changes to O and Missy is the 4th Master and sadly the last one of that cycle.
Missy does infact die on screen, we actually see her die and she was unable to regenerate thanks to Saxon disabling her ability to regenerate. Missy did use the field to change to the Lumiat but because she met the Lumiat before it happened she then changed her future by refusing to use the field to become the Lumiat. This means that O is after Saxon and all the evidence (i have looked it up) all points to him being before her not after
i honestly prefer if Sacha was between Simm and Gomez, like Jo Martin between Troughton and Pertwee
The master kills missy.... but how? Cuz missy would have remembered it.... WTF
If you encounter your younger self, once you part ways the timeline resets and your memories of meeting your younger self are completely erased...
@@dylananthonyriley254 k thanks
no matter what people say dhawan shall always be before missy😌
@Gee Harliquin yep😌
In the Doctor Who Annual 2021 there's a conversation between the Doctor and the Master where the Doctor mentions Missy having wanted to change and the Master responds "She spent too long in your company, Doctor, a mistake I don't intend to repeat"
Why is everyone forgetting that the Master always comes back? He "dies" all of the time and still shows up later lol
@@90sArchive eh I prefer it if dhawan was before, Missy's ending was perfect and I really don't want it to see it get messed around with
@@tardisfalls9595 So did you expect everyone to only write in prior incarnations or simply not have the Master at all? Just look at how all the manbabies whined about prior Doctors lol. Chibbers can't win, no matter what he does.
So sad it wasnt cannon but would work still paraellel universe.
Wtf is with the dislikes
It’s a shame Chibnall could never come up with this. I love it 😫
No content answer. Typical of Doctor Who....the show has the worst writers in television
I mis Missy, but she died by SJW?
huh
This is so stupid and an awful concept