I got this and I'm quite happy with it! Thank you! Love your videos. I have dyslexia also, and I have ADHD. Your voice for some reason is pleasing to my brain (I know, it's weird lol.) So I will sometimes re-watch videos just to listen as if it were a podcast, while doing chores, paying bills, etc etc. My brain always works better when it's interested in something in audio. And, I do end up absorbing the educational material, so double bonus.
Do you more focus on ancient European history? I know Egypt isn’t European, but they are so close in trade and Roman rule. But I wonder if you have done any research more on say aboriginals in Australia, China, Japan, and even Native Americans. I also like more modern European history like Napoleon. Though the Americas are more voided of history due to no real written form of language and it being more archeological. Which is also difficult like the Aztecs due to the jungle.
@@bubbie2982 I wouldn't listen to anything thing this chick says. She is a very close minded person who claims she can debunk Atlantis without a time machine.
One aspect of the Atlantis story that I think could have been emphasized more is that Plato having it be Critias’s great grandfather hearing it from Solon hearing it from an egyptian is a way of saying to not take the story literally and Egypt was seen by many Greeks similar to how Europeans saw India in the 19th and 20th century among new religion types where it is a far away and mystical land with magic.
Imagine when in 2000 years time, people read Lord of the Rings and start to look for Mount Doom and try to find the volcanic eruption which was described by J.R.R. Tolkien as the moment when Smeagol took finger and ring from Frodo and dropped into the lava! I wonder if they might try to reconcile the Viking voyages to Greenland and Newfoundland with the arrival of the Elves and the Valar at the Grey Havens.
@@corneliusanubis5263 As rings are some of the oldest known jewelry (dating back 20,000 years!), I doubt that Plato was somehow original in ascribing power to a ring. In the era of the Tyranny in the 7th and 6th century in Ancient Greece, predating Plato for 200 years, special rings were already symbols of power, worn by the tyrants of the time. Plato just used a wellknown concept, the ring of power, and took it literally, and I doubt that he was the first to do so.
No they'll know it's a fictional story called Lord of the Rings. We have much more durable materials today, and we have digital copies of the books. It's not like ppl in the future are gonna stop using the internet. They may have a new version of it, but I guarantee you that future archeologists won't have much to discover about our world because we've already recorded so much in a format that isn't vulnerable to the elements or time. They'll still likely be researching early recorded history and prehistory.
The Australian Indigenous people have an excellent Oral tradition unfortunately many modern Australian's don't understand or even try learn about the Indigenous people's Oral stories.
I am mesmerized by your analysis and I want to tell you that I love the way you present all this information to us. I was a bit curious about Atlantis as I knew I had some gaps in pointing the origins of the myth and what is the historical backup for it and finding you debunking it now feels like a beautiful coincidence. I will surely explore more of your content. Please continue with the great content.
Loved this video and would love to hear more about the Egyptian origin myth you mentioned. Especially fascinated by the diplomacy between Egypt and Greek states
Egypt is so old and has such a long history that their origin myths actually change over time. The most well known one about Osiris being the first Pharoah was recorded during the New Kingdom era IIRC, but by that point the Egyptians had already forgotten about the actual first rulers of Egypt, which are what we now call Dynasty 0 and there might be an even older one referred to as Dynasty 00.
So the conveyance known as a phaeton with its reputation as the fast, “sporty”, and dangerous horse-and-carriage, popular with Jane Austen playboys, was named after a doomed kid in mythology? I should’ve known! Also, what a great character with crossover Emo and Popped-Collar Prep appeal.
I'd love to hear you talk about Gigamesh and how the epic influenced the world. If that's within your topics of interest. I just found your channel. Thank you for teaching us.
My first thought on the 9000 years thing was that it was just a way of saying "a long time ago" similar to the way some people use "a million years ago."
This is well researched and fascinatingly told for both who believe it existed or not, knowing all of this and the way it is told is such enjoyment. can you please do research on the Anunnaki and the lost planet of Nibiru?
People got the location of Atlantis wrong, there is an event that can be proven that happened, that greeks would have possibly known about, where land did actually slide into the sea.. the storegga slide, the name of the place, was doggerland.. which is now dogger bank, as it all slid into the ocean. In a similar manner as described in greek sources.. even if it did exist, it will never be found, its probably under 100,000,000 tons of sand.
i dont believe that it would be i think its allegory for the doggerland event. Like its not a place as much as a region but adapted.. i got a weird take on it.
I like to pretend all myth is based on something in reality, but I know it’s mostly not. A few things may be, but there is little to no evidence. My favorite myth to believe is real is the bigfoot stuff, Atlantis was fun for a while, but then I watched some videos made by people who actually believe it’s real and it just made me sad.
Ancient Egyptians probably found out about Atlantis the same way everyone else did... by reading Plato. "Ancient" means vastly different things depending on who you're talking about if it's your only descriptor. "Ancient Egypt" is borderline Neolithic compared to some parts of even Europe.
Could we have the wrong date? Because some people used to keep the date using the moon phases. So should we divide the time by 13ish? As you can get 12 to 13 full moons a year. 692 years or less. Which sounds more around the time you have said
No one has ever referred to a lunar month as a year. Lunar calanders were based on having 12 lunar months in a year not having 12 years in what we consider one year.
I kinda l0ve this stuff but she talks a bit too fast for my brain to comprehend all she's saying so I had to make the video slower so I can take it all in
Best history teacher ever! I am Greek and at 62 i learn so many things that in our education system were just passed over if mentioned at all. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us!
I just love the way that you always manage to be very comprehensive bit also concise in your videos (It is rarely easy to be both) Also your, highly infectious, enthusiasm for your subject. Always a genuine pleasure to listen to you. Thank you for that.
1st thing people need to understand is that Plato's dialogues are not transcripts of actual conversations but an intellectual exercise based on Socrates' method of teaching. Rather than have actual discussions like Socrates, where he played the devil's advocate to his students, Plato wrote down dialogues (using real peoples' names for his characters) to show that he could be his own devil's advocate. In other words he was having the discussion/debate in his own mind, in part to impress people with his own intellect. The 2nd thing to know is that all of Plato's philosophy was based on his own religious ideas, specifically that everybody had a soul that resided in a perfect state before it inhabited our imperfect bodies. So trying to use a religious belief to try and prove something true is not scientific. Also, people like to say "lost CITY of Atlantis" when Plato described a continent w/ at least 10 city states on it. The size of Libya (what the ancient Greeks called Africa) and Asia (Egypt & the Middle East) combined. Such a landmass, even using the ancients concept of the size of both regions, would fill up the Atlantic Ocean and would have come close to connecting w/ the American continents. If any such large landmass had existed and sank we would know about it now with the number of surveys that have been conducted of the ocean floor. Atlantis was a fantasy concocted by Plato, using facts about cultures already existing (as modern fantasy authors do), to illustrate a philosophical idea, just like all his other writings.
You could call Platos ideas about the soul unscientific, but to say that they were based on purely religious believes and not reasoning is ignoring the fact that religion for his time was this amalgation of really loose ideas about an underworld, reencarnation and magic rituals to adquire inmortality through the means of participating in a cult, and thus Platos views, though "religious" for a modern reader, were actually the product of his own meditations about the nature of the cosmos and humanity's inner character and not the result of forcing faith into a doctrine.
Oh, the number symbology stuff is very cool! I assumed he just used [very large number] to say "a very, very long time ago", kind of how people would hyperbolically use "like, a billion years ago" to mean that it was a long time ago.
Plato uses stories to reveal non-historical eternal ideals. He did not care about a cow who lived 9000 ago. He was only interested in his ideal cow. He did believe this ideal cow existed in our real world. But it is an unhistorical eternal cow. An Ideal. Plato wouldn't care if Atlantis is real. He is primary interested in his ideal state ruled by philosophers. Witch is more a utopia than a description of state who exist. Asking if Plato's Socrates was real is strings. It also weird to ask if Plato's Atlantis was real. He is not trying to write down the history of humankind. He uses stories to explains his philosophy. If these stories actual happened are kind of irrelevant in Plato's books. It more like a philosophical though experiment. I don't why people would use Plato "fiction" as "evidence in debate about historical Truth. It might have happened but Plato is last person we should ask. He does'st care.
This is entirely true. A good analysis, and the perfect conclusion. The only parts of the myth that needs to be sited from Plato would be purely descriptions of the geographic area, general location, ect. - In case they happend to actually be accurate. Ainchent civilizations however- Those there is evidence for. People aren't more clever now then we where 400.000 years ago, and our world is a world of wrathful cataclysmic events set in a stary shooting gallery, and lit by a massive fusion reaction millions of times bigger then the entire world. It's a wonder when we manage to gather a few thousands years of knowledge and history at ones. This is a rare and golden periode for us right now. We know a lot and can do a lot. But, we can't even tell for sure if this is the first time we got this far- we could lose it in a day, and there woulde be trace amounts of Styrofoam and various plastics around to tell we where ever here in just a few thousands years. Much less then would be needed for a repopulatio to occur on a scale that would allow societys to form. Much less then would make whoever inherited this world readily believe that we where ones a global species, with multi million people metropolises scattering a globe so lit by electricity that it would vain out like the nerves of fungi on the forest flor. Maging a web across the dark side of the world that could be seen from space. Nobody would ever believe that was ever the case, and here we talk about it. Online. An invention that not a single soul was capable of actually predicting what would become before it was here. An ottoman admiral, and serious map maker made some of the most beautiful and detailed maps of the medeteranian that still exist. He was also a scholar of maps, and had compiled what he though was an accurate world map from ainchent lost sources gathered in the Konstantinopel empirial librarie. His map famously included and accurate depiction of both Australia, and the americas. But, it was just a few months ago that the truly striking part of his map was confirmed to also be accurate. A detailed drawing of the prinsess coste off queen Mauds land in Antarctica. The modern reading was done using sonar technology from a plane, and was meant to map the thickness of the land ice at the point where it becomes sea ice. This ice is at present about 150 feet thick. The last time climate scientists estimated that this coste line was ice free is some 17.000 years ago, and due to a slight change in the tilt of the planet this coste was brought north of the Antarctic zone for a time. Frankly there is only two options: Humans traveled to Antarctica as late as 17.000 years ago, or humans developed airplanes and sonar technology and subsequently lost it again somehow sometime between the onset of the ice, and the younger dryass impact event ca 13.000 years ago. There is nothing new under the sun
You should look into the recent discoveries in Southern Spain in reference to cities of concentric circles, time period and flood destruction. It extremely interesting. Search "Donana Mud Flats archeology". The NatGeo documentary, "Raising Atlantis". though superfluously sensationalized, does a great job of bringing the actual archeological finds to light. :)
Sounds like what Plato did is writing a form of speculative fiction. The earliest precursor of Modern Science Fiction. The history of the genre shows that different species and civilizations in science fiction are inspired by one culture to create a frictional one. The Klingons from star trek are a hybrid of an odd combination of Viking and samurai ideals and beliefs and culture At one point in that science fiction franchises history the course.
in the first episode it actually covered what this is. what plato did was called "a hypothetical to push a political point" the political point being "a warring and greedy nation will always fall" because despite atlantis, in platos hypothetical, being super advanced, sturdy and powerful, the wrath of the gods, or the wrath of the earth and the amount of hatred the nation sowed against it inevitably lead to its downfall. it didn't matter that atlantis had the best weapons, the best fortress, the best control over its people. it still fell, and it fell harder than most nations. plato brought up atlantis and made atlantis in an argument (at least, a written argument, so not a literal real live debate) to push this point(which imo, can't be said enough)
@@MG-mh8xp But how the how the Atlantis and its people's described sounds like a lot of techniques used by science fiction/fantasy writers while doing world-building. which is a part of modern science fiction and fantasy respectively
@@analysisofscifi6051 fair. its definitely just a general pattern if you're making cool things up. there's a neat video about one of the very first science fiction books, which is WAYYYY way before all the way in rome? or greece? around the same time era. it's a good video if you can find it. it's a "space exploration" using a literal boat-type ship where they meet the gods and fight aliens, and meet the moon king and sun king and stuff. it's a wild ride.
@@MG-mh8xp The genre has broad themes But I do know the video you are talking about It's actually pretty wild video but the first true science fiction Modern novel has nothing to do with space itself It had it's, in fact, Frankenstein 18 18 by Mary Selly
The audio quality hit hard out the gate. So awesome! Thanks for investing in the quality of your content. It’s greatly appreciated! And excellent video as always!
What the Egyptians knew about was the Land of the Dead (Aaru) in the West. Which was of course Mythological. Eventually Plato got wind of the Mythological story through a garbled intermediate version and used it as a backdrop for some of his philosophical writings. He used the Greek name for a real place (Atlantis) but mostly Plato wrote original material merely pretending to be Mythology. But the Egyptian Myths are real enough. The characters in them have the heads of snakes and frogs and all of the names are different, though.
my first video since becoming a patron and what a banger. I definitely enjoy the long form and don’t at all mind having a longer wait between them so you can have a break
Another grand video! Would love it if you did a collab video with Crecganford some day (if you’ve not come across him you should check him out, seems like a lovely and knowledgable chap)
He did a video about indigenous Australian stories, and used racial slurs to refer to indigenous Australians the entire video. He wouldn't even apologise when multiple people pointed it out. He's not "lovely"at all, he's a racist arsehole. If you are going to make money off of the culture of a marginalized people, try not to use racist slurs. Take the 30 seconds to Google what they actually prefer to be called.
Your video was very informative. It definitely give a broad spectrum of European mythology and historical points that debunk or really bring a lot of questions onto the validity of Plato's story from Solon. But I wonder, did you also look up the mythology and oral histories of other cultures other than European? Check out the myth of Atzlan from the Americas. Interesting stuff.
hello, pedantic nitpick that I feel would only be appreciated here, from my understanding comets stay in the sky and it becomes a meteor if it hits earths atmosphere. love the video
when one gets so enthralled by these discussions, the length of the videos may seem too brief rather than too lengthy. They're also great to listen to while working.
I'd like to take a moment here, in the early parts of the video, to say in no uncertain terms: No. The ancients did not ever witness a comet hitting the earth. They have no experience of this in any context. That's not a thing that happened. Not ever. Meteorites? Sure. Comets? No.
In modern times, the 1908 Tunguska event _may_ have been a comet impact, although there are a number of other possible explanations (and more than a few "alternative facts" explanations). Fundamentally, of course, a comet impact wouldn't be functionally different from a meteorite impact, as a comet is - in essence - an asteroid undergoing significant outgassing. They tend to be rather large, though, and large impacting bodies result in multi-megaton explosions (Tunguska was about 12 megatons, bigger than the Hiroshima bomb).
Fellow brit here, there is no way your accent is 100% genuine, I have met southerners that aren't too far off what you sound like but no one actually sounds like you, I refuse to believe you don't exaggerate for the videos, not that there's anything wrong with that, I just need to point it out before it drives me crazy!
I thought the same thing, her voice sounds like a parody of the voice that someone would use for a library lady or some bourgeois mockery . Maybe it's just exaggerated.
Come on man..first santa-claus..then god..now Atlantis...aliens is about the only thing I got left that hasn't been debunked...logical reasoning and empirical facts are always ruining my fun and I feel like it's making me age prematurely..guess I'm going to have to be more careful about what I watch before I learn myself out of any hope of bliss
Really all you need to know to answer this question is to ask the priest at the temple of Sais, those teachings are history, not hearsay or mythology. The Tibetans who are also survivors of Atlantis, as are the meso American legacy cultures, and they all have ancient codex and oral tradition uncorrupted for thousands of years, that all basically say the same histories. This video should be viewed for entertainment purposes and treated as fiction, because the logical fallacies and disinformation here is bold, unabashed, and pure Marxist propaganda
Too many false claims. The argument begins at 6:47, and is just false claim after false claim. E.g. (1) Nobody mentioned Atlantis before Plato? Here is just one example: Hesiod's Theogony, line 938. There are others (e.g. Hellanicus). Atlas was both a mythical person and a real location in real space. Why should a daughter of Atlas (an Atlantis) be any different? Homer refers to the daughters of Atlas as having real islands. So here is the title "Atlantis" (Maia, daughter of Atlas) and it almost certainly refers to not just Maia but also a geographical location. The context places this particular atlantis near Lake Tritonis, where Diodorus places Atlantis. (2) Nobody could record thousands of years? I refer you to Herodotus Histories, 2.142. Egyptian priests recorded an event as being 341 generations in the past. Herodotus then used this to estimate a date. I also refer you to the Turin papyrus: Herodotus did not make this up. (3) Nobody had writing before 3,000 BC? I refer you to Genevieve von Petzinger's "The First Signs". People have used signs as memory aids for t least 15,000 years, and probably 60,000: potentially 110,000. These are more than enough for reminding priests of dates if needed. The false claims are padded out with straw man arguments. Example: Atlantis must refer to a great inundation during the Younger Dryas? That is only one of many theories, and it is one of the weaker ones. Hence, refuting it is a straw man attack. As an example of a better theory, I refer you to Hong-Quan Zhang's work on the hydrology of Tunisia: Tunisia is an earthquake zone. Blocking the river Triton would cause the Chotts megalake to flood. No Younger Dryas cataclysm is needed. All this in much less than the first minute of the argument. Maybe the video got better later, but I did not stick around to see.
Okay is anyone else now imagining people thinking Helios was kind of a div? Like every time you see a metor shower it's like "man Helios throwing another rager and drunkndriving his chariot with a load of passengers I guess."
I think Plato was a spy. 😏 Sorry I am late to the party, your channel just appeared to me today. If we can't keep 9 months correct how can we keep 9000 years. That's why some of us just know things .
Hm, video could be longer if I'm being honest. When this is all finished would you perhaps consider smooshing them all into one long video? I like the cliffhanger, but I would like to sit down for an hour or two to listen to it all in one long playthrough. Okay, I talked enough. Let me make some coffee for a nice sit down and some book learnin'. Fun fact: Volkswagen had a model named Phaeton. I wanted one but it was mega expensive and now they don't make it anymore.
I love the 'save that for another video' casually slipped in from time to time. I find myself hankering to hear you expand on these tangential topics and wondering if they will ever arise...such an intellectual tease. Great content as ever. Thank for making this morning's laundry folding and sorting an enriching time. 😎
Sounds to me like Atlantis did exsist. They were the minoans who were widely populated which would explain why they look different in the egyptians depiction and they attacted Egypt not Athens! Funny how nothing is left from either civilization...
I mean we could solve this quite quickly. If Plato said 9000 years ago he would mean 900 years before his time based of how they measured time. So find that out add that to the years since the point of current measurement of time begins and that will give you the correct years he meant when saying 9000 years. I mean thats the logical way to figure it out if your saying the measurements of time was different.
Completely unrelated to this, but I've always liked the CCRUs idea that Atlantis is in the distant future. William S Burroughs and some lemurs are involved too. It's way better than the alternative history stuff, being that the future likely hasn't happened yet.
I cant imagine how insufferable it must be to have explain something so obvious as 'Not taking a myth literally' doesnt also mean you dont think comets exist
![[UA] Eternal Fire проти NAVI | EPL Season 20 Malta](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/chvlsDygrZM/mqdefault.jpg)
The first 1,000 people to use the link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/ladyofthelibrary08221
I got this and I'm quite happy with it! Thank you! Love your videos. I have dyslexia also, and I have ADHD. Your voice for some reason is pleasing to my brain (I know, it's weird lol.) So I will sometimes re-watch videos just to listen as if it were a podcast, while doing chores, paying bills, etc etc. My brain always works better when it's interested in something in audio. And, I do end up absorbing the educational material, so double bonus.
Do you more focus on ancient European history? I know Egypt isn’t European, but they are so close in trade and Roman rule.
But I wonder if you have done any research more on say aboriginals in Australia, China, Japan, and even Native Americans. I also like more modern European history like Napoleon. Though the Americas are more voided of history due to no real written form of language and it being more archeological. Which is also difficult like the Aztecs due to the jungle.
@@bubbie2982 I wouldn't listen to anything thing this chick says. She is a very close minded person who claims she can debunk Atlantis without a time machine.
One aspect of the Atlantis story that I think could have been emphasized more is that Plato having it be Critias’s great grandfather hearing it from Solon hearing it from an egyptian is a way of saying to not take the story literally and Egypt was seen by many Greeks similar to how Europeans saw India in the 19th and 20th century among new religion types where it is a far away and mystical land with magic.
@@irritablemeg regards tttttrr
Imagine when in 2000 years time, people read Lord of the Rings and start to look for Mount Doom and try to find the volcanic eruption which was described by J.R.R. Tolkien as the moment when Smeagol took finger and ring from Frodo and dropped into the lava! I wonder if they might try to reconcile the Viking voyages to Greenland and Newfoundland with the arrival of the Elves and the Valar at the Grey Havens.
Especially when people find Tolkiens earlier versions of his legendarium that are directly connected with real Dark Age history.
@bobalooby sunshine Bet I would exist without Atlantis?
It's funny because the concept of a corrupt ring that made you invisible was originally made by Plato too.
@@corneliusanubis5263 As rings are some of the oldest known jewelry (dating back 20,000 years!), I doubt that Plato was somehow original in ascribing power to a ring. In the era of the Tyranny in the 7th and 6th century in Ancient Greece, predating Plato for 200 years, special rings were already symbols of power, worn by the tyrants of the time.
Plato just used a wellknown concept, the ring of power, and took it literally, and I doubt that he was the first to do so.
No they'll know it's a fictional story called Lord of the Rings. We have much more durable materials today, and we have digital copies of the books. It's not like ppl in the future are gonna stop using the internet. They may have a new version of it, but I guarantee you that future archeologists won't have much to discover about our world because we've already recorded so much in a format that isn't vulnerable to the elements or time. They'll still likely be researching early recorded history and prehistory.
The Australian Indigenous people have an excellent Oral tradition unfortunately many modern Australian's don't understand or even try learn about the Indigenous people's Oral stories.
I am mesmerized by your analysis and I want to tell you that I love the way you present all this information to us. I was a bit curious about Atlantis as I knew I had some gaps in pointing the origins of the myth and what is the historical backup for it and finding you debunking it now feels like a beautiful coincidence. I will surely explore more of your content. Please continue with the great content.
Loved this video and would love to hear more about the Egyptian origin myth you mentioned. Especially fascinated by the diplomacy between Egypt and Greek states
Egypt is so old and has such a long history that their origin myths actually change over time. The most well known one about Osiris being the first Pharoah was recorded during the New Kingdom era IIRC, but by that point the Egyptians had already forgotten about the actual first rulers of Egypt, which are what we now call Dynasty 0 and there might be an even older one referred to as Dynasty 00.
So the conveyance known as a phaeton with its reputation as the fast, “sporty”, and dangerous horse-and-carriage, popular with Jane Austen playboys, was named after a doomed kid in mythology? I should’ve known! Also, what a great character with crossover Emo and Popped-Collar Prep appeal.
I just found you and your channel and I love your voice and the stories you tell! Keep up the great work!
I am really enjoying this series, and every series 👍😁
And the mix of longer and shorter videos!
Feels good to know i m not the only binge watcher of the lady of the library!
😇
I'd love to hear you talk about Gigamesh and how the epic influenced the world. If that's within your topics of interest. I just found your channel. Thank you for teaching us.
You’re amazing, I love this content!
Another great one!!! Can't wait to see which topic you choose to cover next! 😃
My first thought on the 9000 years thing was that it was just a way of saying "a long time ago" similar to the way some people use "a million years ago."
I want that Egyptian story about the guy finding an island ruled by a snake!
this is my favorite story from ancient egypt
Another excellent video Cinzia!
This is well researched and fascinatingly told for both who believe it existed or not, knowing all of this and the way it is told is such enjoyment. can you please do research on the Anunnaki and the lost planet of Nibiru?
For the algorithm gods.... you're awesome 🎉
People got the location of Atlantis wrong, there is an event that can be proven that happened, that greeks would have possibly known about, where land did actually slide into the sea.. the storegga slide, the name of the place, was doggerland.. which is now dogger bank, as it all slid into the ocean. In a similar manner as described in greek sources.. even if it did exist, it will never be found, its probably under 100,000,000 tons of sand.
Wait how can you know this happened if it's impossible to find?
i dont believe that it would be i think its allegory for the doggerland event. Like its not a place as much as a region but adapted.. i got a weird take on it.
i love the fact that you say "very very very long video" but it's only half an hour ... maybe i've been binging too many 1:30:00 long videos lmaooo
"This video is so long, beware," sideglance at Atun-Shei
I like to pretend all myth is based on something in reality, but I know it’s mostly not. A few things may be, but there is little to no evidence. My favorite myth to believe is real is the bigfoot stuff, Atlantis was fun for a while, but then I watched some videos made by people who actually believe it’s real and it just made me sad.
I just found this channel and thus is the first video I've seen and love it
Glad you enjoy it!
The number nine is sacred in Norse belief systems as well.
Thanks!
Sick channel keep it up
Yes.
in las Vegas
Plato the meme lord. Im a fan of this theory
when a guy tells a story and includes in the story that it's actually a story and not history, you should probably trust him
I would love a collaboration with esoterica channel
Thera, ahmose, hyksos, ten plagues and exodus. Graham Phillips wrote a book about this, its possible.
Any time accuracy about Egyptian dates is brought up: *laughs in Horemheb*
You’ve already gone on long enough? I disagree, and am excited to hear more
Ancient Egyptians probably found out about Atlantis the same way everyone else did... by reading Plato.
"Ancient" means vastly different things depending on who you're talking about if it's your only descriptor. "Ancient Egypt" is borderline Neolithic compared to some parts of even Europe.
Could we have the wrong date? Because some people used to keep the date using the moon phases. So should we divide the time by 13ish? As you can get 12 to 13 full moons a year. 692 years or less. Which sounds more around the time you have said
No one has ever referred to a lunar month as a year. Lunar calanders were based on having 12 lunar months in a year not having 12 years in what we consider one year.
I kinda l0ve this stuff but she talks a bit too fast for my brain to comprehend all she's saying so I had to make the video slower so I can take it all in
Have you by chance read anything that Graham Hancock has written on Atlantis? He believes it was real and makes some very good points.
I wish I was smart enough to know what you’re talking about
Fascinating. Very informative. Thanks for sharing. Much Blessings to you. 🙏 Lord-Jesus-Christ ✝c✝o✝m
❤
I respect how thorough and thoughtful your analysis is.
Earlier today I said to myself, I wonder if Part 2 of this is out? And here it is! Thank you
Hope you enjoyed it!
@@CinziaDuBois it's very fascinating!
I would laugh if someone managed to time travel and ask Plato why 9000 and he answered it was a typo I ran with.
Best history teacher ever!
I am Greek and at 62 i learn so many things that in our education system were just passed over if mentioned at all.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us!
@bobalooby sunshine what makes you think you know what you’re talking about?
I just love the way that you always manage to be very comprehensive bit also concise in your videos (It is rarely easy to be both) Also your, highly infectious, enthusiasm for your subject. Always a genuine pleasure to listen to you. Thank you for that.
1st thing people need to understand is that Plato's dialogues are not transcripts of actual conversations but an intellectual exercise based on Socrates' method of teaching. Rather than have actual discussions like Socrates, where he played the devil's advocate to his students, Plato wrote down dialogues (using real peoples' names for his characters) to show that he could be his own devil's advocate. In other words he was having the discussion/debate in his own mind, in part to impress people with his own intellect. The 2nd thing to know is that all of Plato's philosophy was based on his own religious ideas, specifically that everybody had a soul that resided in a perfect state before it inhabited our imperfect bodies. So trying to use a religious belief to try and prove something true is not scientific. Also, people like to say "lost CITY of Atlantis" when Plato described a continent w/ at least 10 city states on it. The size of Libya (what the ancient Greeks called Africa) and Asia (Egypt & the Middle East) combined. Such a landmass, even using the ancients concept of the size of both regions, would fill up the Atlantic Ocean and would have come close to connecting w/ the American continents. If any such large landmass had existed and sank we would know about it now with the number of surveys that have been conducted of the ocean floor. Atlantis was a fantasy concocted by Plato, using facts about cultures already existing (as modern fantasy authors do), to illustrate a philosophical idea, just like all his other writings.
You could call Platos ideas about the soul unscientific, but to say that they were based on purely religious believes and not reasoning is ignoring the fact that religion for his time was this amalgation of really loose ideas about an underworld, reencarnation and magic rituals to adquire inmortality through the means of participating in a cult, and thus Platos views, though "religious" for a modern reader, were actually the product of his own meditations about the nature of the cosmos and humanity's inner character and not the result of forcing faith into a doctrine.
Oh, the number symbology stuff is very cool!
I assumed he just used [very large number] to say "a very, very long time ago", kind of how people would hyperbolically use "like, a billion years ago" to mean that it was a long time ago.
Plato uses stories to reveal non-historical eternal ideals. He did not care about a cow who lived 9000 ago. He was only interested in his ideal cow. He did believe this ideal cow existed in our real world. But it is an unhistorical eternal cow. An Ideal. Plato wouldn't care if Atlantis is real. He is primary interested in his ideal state ruled by philosophers. Witch is more a utopia than a description of state who exist. Asking if Plato's Socrates was real is strings. It also weird to ask if Plato's Atlantis was real. He is not trying to write down the history of humankind. He uses stories to explains his philosophy. If these stories actual happened are kind of irrelevant in Plato's books. It more like a philosophical though experiment. I don't why people would use Plato "fiction" as "evidence in debate about historical Truth. It might have happened but Plato is last person we should ask. He does'st care.
This is entirely true. A good analysis, and the perfect conclusion. The only parts of the myth that needs to be sited from Plato would be purely descriptions of the geographic area, general location, ect. - In case they happend to actually be accurate.
Ainchent civilizations however- Those there is evidence for. People aren't more clever now then we where 400.000 years ago, and our world is a world of wrathful cataclysmic events set in a stary shooting gallery, and lit by a massive fusion reaction millions of times bigger then the entire world.
It's a wonder when we manage to gather a few thousands years of knowledge and history at ones. This is a rare and golden periode for us right now. We know a lot and can do a lot. But, we can't even tell for sure if this is the first time we got this far- we could lose it in a day, and there woulde be trace amounts of Styrofoam and various plastics around to tell we where ever here in just a few thousands years. Much less then would be needed for a repopulatio to occur on a scale that would allow societys to form. Much less then would make whoever inherited this world readily believe that we where ones a global species, with multi million people metropolises scattering a globe so lit by electricity that it would vain out like the nerves of fungi on the forest flor. Maging a web across the dark side of the world that could be seen from space. Nobody would ever believe that was ever the case, and here we talk about it. Online. An invention that not a single soul was capable of actually predicting what would become before it was here.
An ottoman admiral, and serious map maker made some of the most beautiful and detailed maps of the medeteranian that still exist. He was also a scholar of maps, and had compiled what he though was an accurate world map from ainchent lost sources gathered in the Konstantinopel empirial librarie. His map famously included and accurate depiction of both Australia, and the americas. But, it was just a few months ago that the truly striking part of his map was confirmed to also be accurate. A detailed drawing of the prinsess coste off queen Mauds land in Antarctica. The modern reading was done using sonar technology from a plane, and was meant to map the thickness of the land ice at the point where it becomes sea ice. This ice is at present about 150 feet thick. The last time climate scientists estimated that this coste line was ice free is some 17.000 years ago, and due to a slight change in the tilt of the planet this coste was brought north of the Antarctic zone for a time. Frankly there is only two options: Humans traveled to Antarctica as late as 17.000 years ago, or humans developed airplanes and sonar technology and subsequently lost it again somehow sometime between the onset of the ice, and the younger dryass impact event ca 13.000 years ago.
There is nothing new under the sun
Were his cows spherical and in a vacuum by any chance?
You should look into the recent discoveries in Southern Spain in reference to cities of concentric circles, time period and flood destruction. It extremely interesting. Search "Donana Mud Flats archeology". The NatGeo documentary, "Raising Atlantis". though superfluously sensationalized, does a great job of bringing the actual archeological finds to light. :)
Atlantis may be fake, but my love for it is real. 💙💙
Sounds like what Plato did is writing a form of speculative fiction. The earliest precursor of Modern Science Fiction. The history of the genre shows that different species and civilizations in science fiction are inspired by one culture to create a frictional one. The Klingons from star trek are a hybrid of an odd combination of Viking and samurai ideals and beliefs and culture At one point in that science fiction franchises history the course.
I was just thinking this. In 5000 years will scholars be speculating where Middle Earth is 🤔
in the first episode it actually covered what this is. what plato did was called "a hypothetical to push a political point" the political point being "a warring and greedy nation will always fall" because despite atlantis, in platos hypothetical, being super advanced, sturdy and powerful, the wrath of the gods, or the wrath of the earth and the amount of hatred the nation sowed against it inevitably lead to its downfall. it didn't matter that atlantis had the best weapons, the best fortress, the best control over its people. it still fell, and it fell harder than most nations. plato brought up atlantis and made atlantis in an argument (at least, a written argument, so not a literal real live debate) to push this point(which imo, can't be said enough)
@@MG-mh8xp But how the how the Atlantis and its people's described sounds like a lot of techniques used by science fiction/fantasy writers while doing world-building. which is a part of modern science fiction and fantasy respectively
@@analysisofscifi6051 fair. its definitely just a general pattern if you're making cool things up. there's a neat video about one of the very first science fiction books, which is WAYYYY way before all the way in rome? or greece? around the same time era. it's a good video if you can find it. it's a "space exploration" using a literal boat-type ship where they meet the gods and fight aliens, and meet the moon king and sun king and stuff. it's a wild ride.
@@MG-mh8xp The genre has broad themes But I do know the video you are talking about It's actually pretty wild video but the first true science fiction Modern novel has nothing to do with space itself It had it's, in fact, Frankenstein 18 18 by Mary Selly
The audio quality hit hard out the gate. So awesome! Thanks for investing in the quality of your content. It’s greatly appreciated! And excellent video as always!
Thank you very much for all your research and work on this. I am so glad I found you channel last month, keep up the good work!
What the Egyptians knew about was the Land of the Dead (Aaru) in the West. Which was of course Mythological. Eventually Plato got wind of the Mythological story through a garbled intermediate version and used it as a backdrop for some of his philosophical writings. He used the Greek name for a real place (Atlantis) but mostly Plato wrote original material merely pretending to be Mythology. But the Egyptian Myths are real enough. The characters in them have the heads of snakes and frogs and all of the names are different, though.
Omg! I could listen to nine more hours of this history! So fascinating!
my first video since becoming a patron and what a banger. I definitely enjoy the long form and don’t at all mind having a longer wait between them so you can have a break
I’m so excited for this video!! Did you upgrade your camera? The quality looks amazing🥰
Thank you! I got a second-hand lens a few months ago and have been using it, but I think the rare natural lighting helped a lot!
I believe that is just Cinzia.
I am so very excited about this episode
Yesss! I’m so glad you made this. I admire how thoughtful and well-researched your work is. 🖤
"Plato chose 9,000, why would he have chosen the number nine?"
My brain: 'because it's OVER 9000!!!!'
I know! Omg!!
Another grand video! Would love it if you did a collab video with Crecganford some day (if you’ve not come across him you should check him out, seems like a lovely and knowledgable chap)
He did a video about indigenous Australian stories, and used racial slurs to refer to indigenous Australians the entire video. He wouldn't even apologise when multiple people pointed it out. He's not "lovely"at all, he's a racist arsehole. If you are going to make money off of the culture of a marginalized people, try not to use racist slurs. Take the 30 seconds to Google what they actually prefer to be called.
@@angelawossname Well I'm glad I know that now, sucks ass that he's like that.
Your video was very informative. It definitely give a broad spectrum of European mythology and historical points that debunk or really bring a lot of questions onto the validity of Plato's story from Solon. But I wonder, did you also look up the mythology and oral histories of other cultures other than European? Check out the myth of Atzlan from the Americas. Interesting stuff.
Well that wouldn't really be relevant to the story of Atlantis.
hello, pedantic nitpick that I feel would only be appreciated here, from my understanding comets stay in the sky and it becomes a meteor if it hits earths atmosphere.
love the video
when one gets so enthralled by these discussions, the length of the videos may seem too brief rather than too lengthy. They're also great to listen to while working.
Glad to see you take on that topc.
Have you considered doing a debunk of the nonsense Erich von Däniken spouted?
He spouted a lot...
“I would love to but you don’t have a driver license and you’re not on my insurance” 😂 perfect
Nothing better than better than a beautiful women who knows classics and Greco-Roman history. Love your videos.
Of course now I want to hear about the Egyptian mythology of the island with the golden snake. I hope I can find it somewhere.
Robert Sephr isn't going to like this one😂😂
I'd like to take a moment here, in the early parts of the video, to say in no uncertain terms: No. The ancients did not ever witness a comet hitting the earth. They have no experience of this in any context. That's not a thing that happened. Not ever. Meteorites? Sure. Comets? No.
In modern times, the 1908 Tunguska event _may_ have been a comet impact, although there are a number of other possible explanations (and more than a few "alternative facts" explanations). Fundamentally, of course, a comet impact wouldn't be functionally different from a meteorite impact, as a comet is - in essence - an asteroid undergoing significant outgassing. They tend to be rather large, though, and large impacting bodies result in multi-megaton explosions (Tunguska was about 12 megatons, bigger than the Hiroshima bomb).
They wouldn't call it a comet it would be a God.
Really enjoyed this one. Will need to look up more on Egypt and Crete.
So the ancient Greeks have a myth about the sun god's son stole his dad's car and wrecked it.
Fellow brit here, there is no way your accent is 100% genuine, I have met southerners that aren't too far off what you sound like but no one actually sounds like you, I refuse to believe you don't exaggerate for the videos, not that there's anything wrong with that, I just need to point it out before it drives me crazy!
Well, I hope your conclusions make you feel better about yourself.
I thought the same thing, her voice sounds like a parody of the voice that someone would use for a library lady or some bourgeois mockery . Maybe it's just exaggerated.
Play at 0.75 speed. You're welcome.
well, at least I'm not the only one... something about her voice and speaking style which almost made me turn off the video.
The depth of your research and how intricately you cover everything is just so awesome! Well done, your work is appreciated!
Come on man..first santa-claus..then god..now Atlantis...aliens is about the only thing I got left that hasn't been debunked...logical reasoning and empirical facts are always ruining my fun and I feel like it's making me age prematurely..guess I'm going to have to be more careful about what I watch before I learn myself out of any hope of bliss
more atlantis videos! these were so fun to watch!
Ok, you said "opposite the Pillars of Hercules", my translation sis "beyond the Pillars of Hercles" - there's a difference. ;)
Really all you need to know to answer this question is to ask the priest at the temple of Sais, those teachings are history, not hearsay or mythology. The Tibetans who are also survivors of Atlantis, as are the meso American legacy cultures, and they all have ancient codex and oral tradition uncorrupted for thousands of years, that all basically say the same histories. This video should be viewed for entertainment purposes and treated as fiction, because the logical fallacies and disinformation here is bold, unabashed, and pure Marxist propaganda
Too many false claims. The argument begins at 6:47, and is just false claim after false claim. E.g.
(1) Nobody mentioned Atlantis before Plato? Here is just one example: Hesiod's Theogony, line 938. There are others (e.g. Hellanicus). Atlas was both a mythical person and a real location in real space. Why should a daughter of Atlas (an Atlantis) be any different? Homer refers to the daughters of Atlas as having real islands. So here is the title "Atlantis" (Maia, daughter of Atlas) and it almost certainly refers to not just Maia but also a geographical location. The context places this particular atlantis near Lake Tritonis, where Diodorus places Atlantis.
(2) Nobody could record thousands of years? I refer you to Herodotus Histories, 2.142. Egyptian priests recorded an event as being 341 generations in the past. Herodotus then used this to estimate a date. I also refer you to the Turin papyrus: Herodotus did not make this up.
(3) Nobody had writing before 3,000 BC? I refer you to Genevieve von Petzinger's "The First Signs". People have used signs as memory aids for t least 15,000 years, and probably 60,000: potentially 110,000. These are more than enough for reminding priests of dates if needed.
The false claims are padded out with straw man arguments. Example:
Atlantis must refer to a great inundation during the Younger Dryas? That is only one of many theories, and it is one of the weaker ones. Hence, refuting it is a straw man attack. As an example of a better theory, I refer you to Hong-Quan Zhang's work on the hydrology of Tunisia: Tunisia is an earthquake zone. Blocking the river Triton would cause the Chotts megalake to flood. No Younger Dryas cataclysm is needed.
All this in much less than the first minute of the argument. Maybe the video got better later, but I did not stick around to see.
Okay is anyone else now imagining people thinking Helios was kind of a div? Like every time you see a metor shower it's like "man Helios throwing another rager and drunkndriving his chariot with a load of passengers I guess."
I think Plato was a spy. 😏 Sorry I am late to the party, your channel just appeared to me today. If we can't keep 9 months correct how can we keep 9000 years. That's why some of us just know things .
Love your content! Even the way you speak is awesome you are like a female Jacob Rees-Mogg.
i'm so happy to have stumbled upon your channel, this is sooo fascinating :') also, i love your whole aesthetic!! you are exceptionally beautiful 🌙
Hm, video could be longer if I'm being honest. When this is all finished would you perhaps consider smooshing them all into one long video? I like the cliffhanger, but I would like to sit down for an hour or two to listen to it all in one long playthrough. Okay, I talked enough. Let me make some coffee for a nice sit down and some book learnin'.
Fun fact: Volkswagen had a model named Phaeton. I wanted one but it was mega expensive and now they don't make it anymore.
I love the 'save that for another video' casually slipped in from time to time. I find myself hankering to hear you expand on these tangential topics and wondering if they will ever arise...such an intellectual tease. Great content as ever. Thank for making this morning's laundry folding and sorting an enriching time. 😎
I know I'm late on this one, but I think Diogenes was the first to create a meme. "Behold! A MAN!"
Just a small comment, but I adore your retelling of Phaeton! 😂
Sounds to me like Atlantis did exsist. They were the minoans who were widely populated which would explain why they look different in the egyptians depiction and they attacted Egypt not Athens! Funny how nothing is left from either civilization...
Can you show the who older Egyptian civilization or Mesopotamia civilizati ?
Thx
Amazing, you’re first name makes me get Italian movie trailers. 🤨 or is it my name? Eh whatever, love your videos!
I’ve always theorized that the sea people of antiquity were the “Atlantians” of myth
I mean we could solve this quite quickly. If Plato said 9000 years ago he would mean 900 years before his time based of how they measured time. So find that out add that to the years since the point of current measurement of time begins and that will give you the correct years he meant when saying 9000 years. I mean thats the logical way to figure it out if your saying the measurements of time was different.
Everyone knows Atlantis was the last outpost of the Martian survivors. They became the lizard people at the center of the Earth. Duh!
JK ;-P
This was so fascinating! Not long at all!
So Babylon according to Herodotus was basically Attack on Titan.
Completely unrelated to this, but I've always liked the CCRUs idea that Atlantis is in the distant future. William S Burroughs and some lemurs are involved too. It's way better than the alternative history stuff, being that the future likely hasn't happened yet.
Who is translating these names? Egyptians didn't call themselves Egyptians that's a greek term to who translated this and where is the original text
Love this! Very curious if you could make a video about Hatshepsut? I would love to hear you debunk some misogynistic Egyptologists of today and yore!
WRONG !
I cant imagine how insufferable it must be to have explain something so obvious as 'Not taking a myth literally' doesnt also mean you dont think comets exist