*EXPERT LEVEL* Soldering Tutorial #5 TTC Avionics
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- NASA Certified Instructor Mike Bunting demonstrates proper through-hole soldering.
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Michael Hobson's solder instruction is top-notch. He demonstrates a proper technique to achieve a good, solid soldering joint. How anyone could give this a thumbs down, is beyond me. They must be looking for a quick, dumbed-down, 'for-the-masses' language, sloppy job that'll hold for, well, maybe a little while. This is NASA specification - not a garage job. Jen's voice-over is spot-on and provides necessary information.
Five years later, the soldering is completed. Hooray!
The obsessive cleaning and emphasis on following the steps makes me feel calm and relaxed. BTW, if your solder joint fails thousands of miles from an atmosphere, you're gonna have a bad time. I don't think they can really over- OCD these things. :-)
I know we all laugh at this but remember - these instructions are made in order to make the highest quality possible, and for projects with ZERO fault tolerance!
It might seem overkill with the soldering instructions but trust me - this is nothing compared to NASA test metodologies and coding standards! I am trained in assembler programming with the same philosophy but for a different company and we took every step possible to write fault free code. We couldn't rely on compilers or OS's so we had none.
Today we can't afford to develop systems like this but the systems we did develop in the 70's and 80's are still running today! Show me a system designed in the early 2000's that run today? ;)
Jens Andree
Thank you for a much-needed, sensible overview. The people who rag on these guys are the ones who ought to have the products they use that come from the space program, removed from their accessibility. If you don't appreciate it don't use it.
Agreed
as a former space propulsion assembler...
i salute your commitment to quality
(which is simply conformance to requirements)
and that's pretty damn hard sometimes
Come over to my house, that's all I can afford
this just proved more nasa faked moon landing
Steven King said something like, "you have to know the rules of grammar before you can earn the right to break them." So it is with soldering.
This tutorial is actually the best ive seen thanks
Those firing arrows of criticism would do well to observe and learn from the certified instructor above. Yes it takes him much more time to instruct as he is teaching and working. Add to that lighting, camera, audio checks, or pacing to stay in sync with the technical descriptions being read. The aerospace/aviation/military standards are of necessity high. As a former QC inspector of electrical control panels (Industrial Level) I've seen work that ranged from exquisite to utter embarrassing trash. By far the most rework and rejections came from those speed freaks, who had been trained(if at all) by some nervous gut jerking supervisor that had been ordered to turn out X amount of project pieces per shift or day, lest his/her year end incentive take a plunge. Supervision started keeping records and tracking of rework and the person responsible. Even after being warned to "slow down" many had come from that '"hurry up-faster faster" background, and in their effort to up their output, had developed bad habits. But when moved into an environment where checks or standards were higher they could not hack it. After several were terminated from employment, the others found humility quickly, slowing down, with the emphases on quality not quantity. Their work and attitude improved at an amazing rate. Nothing wrong with productivity but taking pride in your craftsmanship is paramount to you as an individual and should be to your employer, yet I fully realize many are under the gun to rush and the constant refrain has been worn out ""were loosing money" on this contract or job order. My heart goes out to those who truly desire to "do it right" but upper management has cranked up the speed of the conveyor belt accompanied by threats. Hang in there, a place for your best work will open to you. God Bless.
1 resistor in 10 minutes on land. Voyager is in space for almost 40 years. That's 2 102 400 ten minutes. 2 MILLION. I believe it's ok to take time to make a good soldering job on ground to take the beating in space.
remy5405 lol these are just For instructional purpose
Meanwhile, I just soldered a cap into the wrong holes on the board. Don't get into a spaceship I built, is all I'm saying.
Thanks
Vintage, Voyager-1, safe-life, strict standards way to do it. Nothing personal or economical things matters. Appreciates the numbers of times it got cleaned. This is some kind of insane level of perfection we expect inside an operating theatre. Anybody with a little practice can solder a resistor. Look, the 36 years old Voyager-1 is still functional outside the solar system..! Way beyond anybody can go for a repair.
Yet, it is so damn boring to me as well, 14min to solder a resistor, is beyond the oort cloud of my patience :)
My atari punk console is going to take alot longer than I had thought. ..
*Wow!* A lot of nasty comments here; Folks, they're trying to demonstrate all these details for good reason. These avionics go through so much testing like vibrational tests (think paint shakers at a hardware store for hours), humidity, temperature, altitude, fungal, mechanical shock, etc. So _chill_ eh. It's not like he's trying to teach you how to solder together a guitar effects pedal.
Oh, and the headaches with the FARs and CARs... I never wanna write up an engineering report again.
schitlipz Hell, I never even want to READ anything you write up again! This is ridiculous on ANY level! This kind of waste clearly illustrates where our government's $700 hammers come from!
Robert Frapples I guess you'd also object to a $10k repair bill for convection oven with a mechanical clock. Just a tiny thing in the galley.
Sometimes costs look outrageous, but are completely justified. Lives depend on getting it right.
+go_boy Yes and no. It's a matter of accounting. What happens is the military purchases a "spares kit" which contains all kinds of parts and tools for a weapon system such as an aircraft. For accounting purposes on the price of each item within the kit, its the price of the entire kit divided by the number of parts and tools within the kit. That results in what some people call a $700 hammer. But what they don't mention is the $700 jet engine as well that happens to be in the same kit.
The only bad thing here was the video quality. Other than that, people who are bitching about how long it takes to put in one resistor don't seem to have a clue that this is a training video. Training always takes longer. His techniques are valid as I have done that type of work. I was NASA certified in Hand Soldering Techniques and have worked on boards and equipment that go into space and on military ships and other equipment. When you are flying, wherever it is, you want to insure that you have done as much as you can do to make sure people are safe.
One of the first things to work on is workmanship. The level of workmanship has to be very high because of all the stresses that these things have to endure. Whether that be take offs and landings or extreme changes in temperature. Your basic soldering job is not enough. The interesting thing is that once you have achieved the level of skill necessary in soldering this way you almost always want to achieve this level in almost anything you do. I am not saying the extreme measure, just the quality of work. I have seen a lot of videos on UA-cam of people that show you how to solder and most of them wouldn't even come close.
I have read a couple on here that talk about the double bending of the leads and the stresses that it is putting on the leads. Well you just think you know what you are talking about. Just check out NASA soldering techniques on the web and you will see. Part of the reason is that if a soldering joint were to fail, then the bent lead should still hold the component in and making contact as opposed to floating around in the hole. The only thing I would have really done different is that I would not have left the one lead with the shallow solder joint. I would have added a bit more solder to it.
Another thing,, once he is working in real time and no training what he would have probably done is to batch the job, meaning he would have prepared a bunch of the resistors and done them at once. Cold solder joint, too much solder, these are all things that can affect the life of components. As an example of too much solder, NASA is very critical of weight. Everything that goes into one of there rockets or ships is designed to pare the weight down as low as possible. When you have tens or even hundreds of thousands of solder joints, if you have blobbed on the solder then that is pounds of weight that is not needed, not to mention the effects of having a blob of solder on a joint say during liftoff as opposed to a proper solder joint.
Worked for DoD for 35 years microelectronics & process control surveillance CLEAN ROOM! Inspection electrical/ electronics
Endeavour & B1BOMBER (BONE) GPS NAVIGATION SATELLITES & much more!!
I've never used a lead bending tool but it looks so useful.
Also, nice to see someone else using kimwipes when cleaning. I've been told it's "going overboard"
Ignorance is bliss........and, this is the most sedated, contented, complacent, self-centered society, this planet has ever seen.
I like knowing the OCD way of doing things. Focus on quality first and then production follows ( high quality with production ). You never get high quality by focusing on production first then quality later. One resistor in 10 minutes can become one resistor in 1 min.
What is with you guys? He's TEACHING how to solder, not doing production soldering.
As far as the technique, he's teaching what the standards are for the company that hires you to do the soldering- in this case NASA. If your boss requires you to go through this process, then that's what you do. They know it takes longer and takes 10 kimwipes, but they are willing to pay the price rather than loosing a few billion dollars and ending a program that may have taken years to plan because of a failed solder joint.
I leaned the same technique for work in nuclear power plants. Do you want to risk a nuclear disaster because you saved an hour rushing through a job and not following the procedures that were established to do the job?
yes yes i do
1969, NASA put men on the Moon...
2013......still soldering PCBs for the Mars mission.
Didn't know that so much cleaning is required, also didnt know about bending the pins in the direction of trace. Good stuff
This must be the same guy the US White House calls when the microwave oven in their kitchen needs repairing.....
At work time is money,lack of and lack of it if you don't bang the job out,at home when I work on my stuff in my time, this way every time, perfection :)
I knew that NASA had some strict rules on soldering technique. Thank you for showing us its method! The part about clipping the solder was most interesting.
That is the perfect way to solder.The instructor does not work to !!!So Experts here Open your close eyes and do not make stupid comments
Is there any reference to why these are the procedures? Has there ever been a failure traced to contaminated soldering wire (that would be prevented by wiping the wire)? Isn't it more important to use solder that won't form tin whiskers than any of this forming the lead in the direction of the trace?
NASA's standards were designed after their test rockets, with solder work done by TV technicians, kept blowing up during launch. As a result they invested in extensive studies to determine how to, if painstakingly, remove any possibility of failure from temp change and/or vibrations. As others have said in some of these threads, If you aren't sending your boards into extreme environments, you don't really need to adhere to such Nth degree measures. In today's consumer market most products are disposable before contaminants that were on the solder wire would cause a failure.
Thanks! I was hoping for a document I could read, but this is helpful too. (And I think you're right about the disposable products.)
Dennis Gentry Google NASA Solder Standards and you will find a PDF that floats around on the net.
if NASA built guitar amps or fuzz boxes , there would be no Rock and roll....
There is no price for the extra safety needed for anyone that may be lost in space travel. Clean away Mike !!! Nice Job.
Google: "NASA workmanship standards soldering". That first link (workmanship.nasa.gov) goes to the pictorial reference that was used as a standard when I took the course. Reliability and repeatability are important. :)
Hope this helps.
You are required to clip the leads first per IPC standards. I'm not saying I agree but the reason they give is if you solder first and than clip the lead they are worried about shock damage to the component from the clip because the component is rigidly mounted. Again not fully agreeing but he is doing it correctly as far as recent IPC standards
josh kay right, if you clip the leads after soldering, you can get cracks in the solder which is considered a defect I believe. And since this is NASA or at the very least class 3, it's a defect if you have cracked solder. Also, we were told to bend the leads all the way first and then cut them, you shouldn't have to bend them again, that's why they have safety glasses. However, this is for NASA standards and they actually have their own standards other than class 3.
Kamikaze Krunch j
@@kamikazekrunch8363
Why not remelt the joint after clipping the lead, to eliminate cracks?
@@VidkunQL I have tried it and the first flow is technically better compared to reflowing which is fine, but you can see a difference
@@kamikazekrunch8363
Better how? Why? (My last training in soldering was a couple of decades ago and I'm trying to take it up again and get it right.)
14 mins to solder one resistor!! I am wondering how much will it take to get the whole board done!!
Materials selection
Tinning flux:ROL0 > ROH1 > INH1 flux for tinning / degolding in order of ease of wetting
Tinning solder: 60 tin 62 tin silver loaded or 63 tin solder (ingot form).
Assembly flux ROL0 > ROL1 > ROH1 flux in order of cleanliness for assembly (rol1 will need greater inspection)
Assembly solder: various 63 tin, 62 tin silver loaded, 60 tin, 96 tin, 10 tin
You may want to read about the environmental cosiderations eg thermal cycling, vibration, solar flux and some of the ECSS standards we used at ESA before criticising. ECSS-Q-ST-70-08C ECSS‐Q‐ST‐70‐38, ECSS‐Q‐ST‐70‐10, ECSS‐Q‐ST‐70‐11, ESCC 23500
dont complain about how long it takes because "aerospace soldering "as it is called requires lots of procedures and techniques after all nasa doesn't want anything to fail in their electronics specialiy if it is going to be apart of an important projects
joaquin San Andreas
Can you really believe all this ignorance is genuine? If this is the trend of the future I want out of this freaking country.
Never forget the silent L in sodder
+RawDawg108 It's odd hearing people in STEM use archaic units too.
OMG... wow thats ... no words, its like watching Monk.
I usually solder them with different method so I can save my time for my diy projects. Also it turns out pretty good as I expected. This may be a waste of time but for the "quality product" it should be followed. But I don't have any tools to use like this one. So I have to stick with traditional bend with the hand tool
I've read that shears put less shock than cutters used. I'm curious as to why shears aren't used.
600 degrees is that celsius? some components can only handle 250 C soldering and it will fry beyond that
Are you massaging the resistor? And then giving it some special service later?
Brought to you from the geniuses that built four shuttles and destroyed two
For the love of God, solder that resistor.
I am working in electronic since last 5 years, and I can solder the whole pcb in just 14mnt and 21seconds..
You can solder pins top. Then turn board and cut leads then solder bottom if needed?
+Juha Rakolahti nope, there's a risk once a wire is rigidly secured by solder that cutting the leads could crack the solder and cracked solder is considered a it's failed, redo it.
Now you know why avionics have such ridiculous prices.
Those girls that work for mil contractors have soldering down to an art.
Let me know when they have it down to a science.
...and we are down to earth.
What about flux core solders?
+Killa Bee he's using a flux core solder. If you notice he talks about cutting the solder after use so as to make sure he gets a clean path for the flux. Yes he fluxed the board with flux solder. It's a NASA avionics board.
And that, kids, is how everything at NASA costs $20B. All that cleanin' n yappin', yappin' n cleanin'.
I'm far from a soldering expert, but I believe that can cause microscopic cracks in the then-solid solder. Clearly, this is way, way pickier than to take such risks.
Expert level is soldering that single resistor in seconds.. I lived a long long long lifetime while you solder that one little doodad
would you go to the moon and back in a spacecraft that's using boards you've soldered components to? :)
Well I learnt some things that I didn't know so it was well worth my time, thanks for taking the time to show me.
how do you flux both sides of a unfriendly component like a through hole vertical capacitor? I am guessing you need surgically clean smooth jaw pliers and flux it before bending the lead and don't clean it again? Or are the components just chosen to be axial.. it seems like you cannot inspect a upright capacitor easily!
Been quite a while since I soldered, retired as avionics (intermediate) tech USN in 2008...question I have, is you did not define the criteria for finding the proper slots to use on the bending tool. I recall something about the proper dimension from the component to a bend so as not to cause possible component damage or fracturing of the leads themselves, but your video did not expound on this, in fact you said, "oh, that's even better" when you found the second slots that you used. A great video otherwise, but I am left wondering what the spec. for the allowable lead length form the component body. Perhaps I just need to look it up myself.
It looks like the rules has changed, because I can find some errors in what he do.
1) He does not ware sterile gloves
2) He bend the leads back and forth, It may stress the component.
3) He use the wrong tool to cut the leads with.
4) I do not think that it is allowed to use a wooden stick anymore, to unprecise.
5) He ignores personal safety by cleaning the iron tip with a thin piece of paper.
6) He is not cleaning the iron after the new metodes.
7) He touch the iron with the solder while soldering, instead of letting the lead get hot enough to melt the solder, may resulting in a bad soldering.
8) He maybe do use a bit to little solder for a strong joint.
9) No ESD.
10) Wrong clothes.
And last, they do not take a new piece of solder wire every time they have used a bit.
Vinsu Karma you can try to search on soldering and NASA, there you can find a lot of information:-)
What strikes me is the waste of solder I saw. Every time you solder a connection you have to snip the end of the solder you touched with the Iron! Isn't the fact you "cauterized" the end of solder and blocked the rosin in the wire part of the reason you use the liquid flux? I'm not going to dwell too much on the lack of an ESD mat on the bench, no use of an ESD wrist strap no the lack of an ESD smock...The learner should know he/she will have to tether one of his hands with a strap.
This is one of the few intelligent, and the only pertinent/helpful comment, I've seen on this video.
Yep no ESD control in this video but this is a training board so maybe that's why. I do think its best to teach ESD control at the same time as soldering techniques though.
let us take this time to celebrate smd devices and reflow soldering
Roger Lamb lol but now days all the best components are smd's
I agree most smds are good but I work with high power equipment. and while smds comprise more and more real estate on the pcb in digital control, through-hole components still handle the power.
If such procedure is so delicate, why isn't he using globes? A lead is contaminated everytime he touches it!! ... Besides that, anyone know how much is paid for soldering a resistor following this method?
Now I understand why my truck's oil change takes 4 hours at Ford's dealer
Gott, so braucht man ja ewig...kein Wunder das ein Shuttlestart so viel kostet, wenn man den ganzen Tag mit sowas vertrödelt.
Is that NASA handbook available on-line anywhere ??
Eight hours later, five resistors mounted.
Yeah 😄
There is a separate cauldron for the bendants of the conclusions of radioelements in hell!
Everything that is fabricated for NASA is inspected minutely several times.
Bearing in mind the age of the Voyager craft and the technology used back then, the meticulous work as demonstrated by the tutor obviously pays dividends.
Plus, most of the failures are on the launch pad and the rocket motor failures.
Step 1: Solder the resistor onto the board.
Thats when your life depends on a soldering joint.
so many steps and cleaning for the same usual soldering joint without any of the cleaning
All this technology process they use in the Challenger (?!).
How do they allow people to solder who cannot say solder properly!
oh god! quickly!quickly!quickly!
Hey, my Bombardier aeronautique security pass is almost identical type!
schitlipz One time, me and a friend got a case of beer and stayed out until nearly 1:00 AM!
Make that "man-rated avionics" soldering. If my life is on the line, this is the way I want my spacecraft to be built.
This is for sure nasa certified thingy ..I understand how it is soldered for boards that will go to space...but this isn't normal production or will never be..I understand if one component cost over 100 USD then sure you need to work in this kind of soldering and all must be cleaned 4 times ..not in ormal production..that is not needed
No wonder parts are made so slow - the techs spend more time cleaning the tools and the parts than they do actually mounting them :D
Is that just a regular tissue that you keep using to clean the leads?
+Colaris No, it's probably a delicate task wipe that is for this kind of work. Kimtech brand is very common - look it up.
Thanks.
+Colaris They are Kimwipes / Kimtech by Kimberley Clark and are used because they have low lint (fluff) as seen under the microscope. I'm not sure the exact code Kimwipes aren't such a well known brand here in the UK (unlike Kleenex their domestic brand) as in the USA so they are difficult or pricey to get hold of for the regular Joe without trade accounts. Either one has to buy large production quantities or pay as much in delivery as a box of wipes eg £142.57 for 15 boxes min order at Farnell. I'm going to check out chamois and microfibre cloths under the microscope for residues / linting as I think it's far better environmentally to use washables and reusables instead of disposables if the performance criteria are met. (maybe the work microfibre is a hint not to )
Many thanks for the info. :)
He really needs a more ergonomic workstation setup, with everything in it's place. Excellent demonstration of high-reliability solder work, though.
He should not have done a double bend on the lead as that adds stress and increases the chance of failure. If the lead was too long and can't be cut to the proper length without bending a second time then the component should be replaced and the original one trashed. The fillet on the non-component side at the top did not appear to have enough solder on it.
I know this is a training video but what they should have done is go through the steps first and list them as a text item in the video, but when actually doing it they should have done it at the pace one would do it in production.
Lastly, it looked like they were using a pencil iron and they should have been using one that has a calibrated temperature sensor in it to insure proper temp.
Raptorman0909 He's using a Weller soldering station. It's visible in other parts of this series.
Aren't you supposed to solder it first and then clip the leads? That way it has less chance of falling out.
i just like PCB Holder in this video
I bet next time he is going to be like o I took a breath need to clean the board again
cleaning it in that way leaves dust and residue especially using a tissue, really they should be doing that soldering in a specialized room if they dont want contaminents
He is using a chem wipe, not a tissue
Haha crazy performance
A pick and place machine and wave solder machine would whip this out in a jiffy.
Look up Kimwipes. They don't shed lint like tissues do.
Nothing brings doubt to a repair like a cheap double sided board. How time consuming it is to check to see if you have continuity from the bottom side to the trace.
My next transceiver will look better under the hood.
I can solder all components on board when you swordplay whit that resistor.
To be honest, he is going deliberately slowly for the purposes of demonstration... but some of this sort of work (like waiting for proper flow and making sure everything is physically tight before applying solder) is necessarily painstaking. Building stuff properly is like that. You can do a half-assed job or you can do it right.
All those special tools and robot steps makes this take forever, I would be laughed at and fired for taking so long at work.
clipping beforehand reduces the risk of solder joint cracking (while clipping after soldering)
not that I do this myself. :D
from where you got that holder ?
SFORDS It's a Panavise. They've got a bunch of different models for soldering.
not all resistor leads are the same thickness. its best to clip a little off the component you are using as your guide. lead length should be one to two times conductor width. not a fan of clinched leads either. makes the next guys job twice as hard
The time he is finsh with the board it will be Obsolete
Hehe, that is what I said in my post above.
yea, he probably doesn't explain it to a five year old for every component. It takes maybe 50% longer to solder to this standard. If that 50% saving is important to you, and a failure is not a disaster, then of course you can cut corners.
gnorty well at least a 5 year old knows that if you do it this way you will go broke and you cant get any where and the cost of it would put out of the market
yea of course. Aerospace companies go bust every day...
L0WRYDER
Why is there so much ignorance (of the space program) in this country?
Holy crap. over 10 minutes to solder 1 resister. aint nobody got time fa dat!
I use a 12 foot wide CNC sheet metal brake to bend my resistor leads. Perfect 90's every time. Verified with a laser guided angle meter to 18 decimal places. Then after clipping my leads to the proper length within 10 picometers of spec, I solder in a vacuum chamber while wearing a level 4 bio-hazard suit so nothing gets oxidized. Unfortunately, I solder for exactly 3.1 seconds, so my prospects of working at NASA are nil.
But well one can understand that this is not a normal board, this type of soldering am guessing, is to prevent failures when exposed to harsh outerspace conditions.
Very experienced guy takes longer than a mission to mars, to solder in a resistor.
Yes. The Challenger wasn't an electrical failure.
14 minutes for soldering just a single resistor with 5% of tolerance: not bad!
I will say 13:27 it needs just a bit more solder also the top one too take practice also :)
I really hope he's faster when he ain't explaining.
We should have the part finished next month if all goes well ..................OVER KILL or what !
You risk fracturing the solder joint if you clip after soldering
I never use the flux :(
Use precision electronics sidecutters like Knipex ones which hold the wire when clipping. Your sidecutter is not appropriate for the job; it's way too huge!