If Cathal Brugha thought we were sold out with the treaty, imagine what he'd have to say about the country now! Less than 100 years, and everything they fought for was sold off like it was nothing. Sad, to say the least. 🥺🇮🇪
im related to stephen fuller, if he hadnt survived nobody would ever have found out about what happened in ballyseedy. it makes me wonder how many more horrific massacres happend that we dont know about
I lost all respect for De Valera when he expressed condolences to Germany when Hitler died. That makes me think he would have probably hid Nazis if the rat line went through Ireland too. And who knows, it may have. People that blinded by religious certainty and partisan hatred had no business leading a country, and he held Ireland back for decades.
3:46. Why is Mc Bride talking about the map? Churchill threatened Collins with total and terrible war on Ireland if the treaty wasn't ratified. The IRA has no ammo left. Collins took this threat seriously. Churchill was a lunatic.
Does anyone know when this documentary was made? Unfortunately, the sound didn't seem to be very good and I couldn't make out much of what was being said.
with the death of mick went the six counties and the bitterness got worse collins would have kept the war going against the loyalists and would not let the boundary commission go so easily the likes of armagh and tyrone had nationalist majorities the 4 counties would have fallen in no time
I appreciate that this comment was written 3 years ago, but lol, dream on. If Collins had survived and had his way with Tyrone and Fermanagh, that would have resulted in more Protestants (ergo Unionists) moving into the remaining four counties. We know this because that’s what happened in the South. Only Derry would serve as a Catholic (Nationalist) majority area. Irish unification would be even further off than it was/is in our timeline. Even if Collins didn’t want to do it peacefully, I see three scenarios, none of them resulting in a Southern victory. The first is that Free State/Republican forces invade the North but are repulsed by British forces. It would be impossible to cover the military build up in question and the British would send their army to deter any potential invasion. Not to mention the obvious warmongering rhetoric being used by the Irish government. The second is that the Irish do invade, catching the British off guard and seizing a good chunk of Northern Ireland or even all of it. What you would have are two things. Ireland will be condemned internationally. Ireland back then as today had a lot of diplomatic credit. By invading Northern Ireland, it would throw that away. The only major power that would back Ireland would probably be the USSR, even then, I doubt it. Depending when, Nazi German might get involved too. You also need to factor in that Northern Ireland would be full of armed unionists who would do to the invading Irish what the IRA did to the British Army and auxiliaries in the Irish War of Independence. Ambush troops in guerrilla warfare, trigger a backlash and turn the people against the invaders. Even for the British Government, Ireland was too much effort to control in this way. A smaller and inferior Irish Army would have no chance. Thirdly, you are talking about an island nation having to deal with a global empire with the worlds largest Navy when the former doesn’t even have one. An economic blockade would take place immediately and with all of Ireland’s largest cities on the coast, that would make them extremely vulnerable to naval bombardment which the Irish would be powerless against. While Collins might have got a better deal and maybe some credit in London as the leader of Free State forces against the Republicans, Irish unification under Dublin still wouldn’t have happened for a very long time.
Does anyone see the Irony? The British were condemned for their behaviour in Ireland yet the FREE STATE government shot more by firing squad than the British ever did. The forces on both sides committed dreadful atrocities such as rape of women on both pro treaty and anti treaty sides. Ballyseady where republicans were tied to a land mine and blown to pieces by FREE STATE forces. Young republican men arrested by FREE STATE troops and then assassinated. The FREE STATE government critical of the violence of the IRA, the same violence they themselves were prepared to commit and the same violence the people of Northern Ireland had to endure for 30years. I still say no one was more brutal and savage to the Irish than the Irish themselves!
I'd be more interested in where Dev go so much power from and so fast, but not only Dev Mick also. . I've always been interested in that particular question. We're there Irish people in the background playing a dubble game. Playing everyone behind the scene is was maybe the slidder himself, master Churchill. It wouldn't surprise me one bit. He ego was the size of his head
BumBum II They are not loyal to anybody. They hav a guilty conscience about treating the gaels as slaves for 300 years stealing their land and starving them to death. They are paranoid about being equals in an Irish state.
Pablo Nush This is a gross over-simplification. The fact is they identify with one part of the island of Ireland only. They have no affinity with the rest, and want to maintain the links with the political union within the UK.
What a stupid comment. What about the people that wanted to remain British. What about the 10s of thousands that had died fighting for Britain in the war.
My Grand parents fought in all wars from 1916 right up past the civil war. Collins sold his soul to the devil when he ordered the attack on his Irish Brothers and sisters.
Demonstrate to me The Kindness of Any " British King"...and I will Call you a Liar./Such is The Lot of The Irish./The Crown Cares only Ultimately for itself.
Why did the Irish even think they ever had the slightest chance of taking Ulster into their new republic, we wanted nothing to do with it then & even less now. Lest they forget, Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right.
If Cathal Brugha thought we were sold out with the treaty, imagine what he'd have to say about the country now! Less than 100 years, and everything they fought for was sold off like it was nothing. Sad, to say the least. 🥺🇮🇪
Exactly!
I agree now I read there s 50 000 Ukrainian refugees in Ireland is that proportionate to it's size
im related to stephen fuller, if he hadnt survived nobody would ever have found out about what happened in ballyseedy. it makes me wonder how many more horrific massacres happend that we dont know about
As a neutral viewer, it seems like Ireland’s Civil War was just as deadly and even more bitter than their war of independence from the British.
Check out the Murder Gang pure savage
@@franciskeogh5027 what's that?
Remember England heavily supported one side of Ireland s civil war so still deviousness to the divide and conquered to the end
Great journalist and comentary from Robert Key
Traitor would not go to negociate but was willing to take charge of the country that collins got
That was a great documentary
I agree very concise to the cold hard facts especially for a historical documentary
27:40 Top 10 Saddest Anime Deaths
De Valera sold the Irish out and Michael Collins was the scape goat
I lost all respect for De Valera when he expressed condolences to Germany when Hitler died. That makes me think he would have probably hid Nazis if the rat line went through Ireland too. And who knows, it may have. People that blinded by religious certainty and partisan hatred had no business leading a country, and he held Ireland back for decades.
I agree
3:46. Why is Mc Bride talking about the map? Churchill threatened Collins with total and terrible war on Ireland if the treaty wasn't ratified. The IRA has no ammo left. Collins took this threat seriously. Churchill was a lunatic.
A war that they could not fight. It was a bluff and it worked.
@@livinglifeform7974 maybe not, but the Unionists were armed to the teeth.
@@paulduffy4585maybe so.... Doesn't change the fact the war never stopped.. should have kep her it lit...sign fuck all ..
Collins was bought and paid for after the meeting. Fact. Either that or he just shat it but he returned a different man.
Let's not forget England supported one side of the Irish civil war devious with it's divide and conquer intrigue to the end
Does anyone know when this documentary was made? Unfortunately, the sound didn't seem to be very good and I couldn't make out much of what was being said.
1980
1978
Ireland for the Irish ☘️☘️🇮🇪
I totally agree
with the death of mick went the six counties and the bitterness got worse collins would have kept the war going against the loyalists and would not let the boundary commission go so easily the likes of armagh and tyrone had nationalist majorities the 4 counties would have fallen in no time
Was it not fermanagh and Tyrone that had more nationals then unionists?
I appreciate that this comment was written 3 years ago, but lol, dream on. If Collins had survived and had his way with Tyrone and Fermanagh, that would have resulted in more Protestants (ergo Unionists) moving into the remaining four counties. We know this because that’s what happened in the South. Only Derry would serve as a Catholic (Nationalist) majority area. Irish unification would be even further off than it was/is in our timeline.
Even if Collins didn’t want to do it peacefully, I see three scenarios, none of them resulting in a Southern victory. The first is that Free State/Republican forces invade the North but are repulsed by British forces. It would be impossible to cover the military build up in question and the British would send their army to deter any potential invasion. Not to mention the obvious warmongering rhetoric being used by the Irish government. The second is that the Irish do invade, catching the British off guard and seizing a good chunk of Northern Ireland or even all of it. What you would have are two things. Ireland will be condemned internationally. Ireland back then as today had a lot of diplomatic credit. By invading Northern Ireland, it would throw that away. The only major power that would back Ireland would probably be the USSR, even then, I doubt it. Depending when, Nazi German might get involved too. You also need to factor in that Northern Ireland would be full of armed unionists who would do to the invading Irish what the IRA did to the British Army and auxiliaries in the Irish War of Independence. Ambush troops in guerrilla warfare, trigger a backlash and turn the people against the invaders. Even for the British Government, Ireland was too much effort to control in this way. A smaller and inferior Irish Army would have no chance. Thirdly, you are talking about an island nation having to deal with a global empire with the worlds largest Navy when the former doesn’t even have one. An economic blockade would take place immediately and with all of Ireland’s largest cities on the coast, that would make them extremely vulnerable to naval bombardment which the Irish would be powerless against.
While Collins might have got a better deal and maybe some credit in London as the leader of Free State forces against the Republicans, Irish unification under Dublin still wouldn’t have happened for a very long time.
The Irish civil war was more than the death of mick collins
Bhí Michael Collins ina thráchtóir dá mhuintir agus do mo mhuintir san Oirthuaisceart
223
Collins "masterminded the whole IRA campaign"? Not hardly!!
But certainly played a big part as minister of intelligence and finance and the main gun smuggler
Does anyone see the Irony? The British were condemned for their behaviour in Ireland yet the FREE STATE government shot more by firing squad than the British ever did. The forces on both sides committed dreadful atrocities such as rape of women on both pro treaty and anti treaty sides. Ballyseady where republicans were tied to a land mine and blown to pieces by FREE STATE forces. Young republican men arrested by FREE STATE troops and then assassinated. The FREE STATE government critical of the violence of the IRA, the same violence they themselves were prepared to commit and the same violence the people of Northern Ireland had to endure for 30years. I still say no one was more brutal and savage to the Irish than the Irish themselves!
I have some skeptism of Hugh Dalton at the four courts shelling and the killing of Michael Collins
Emmet
I hate the fake sounds on old silent film, it's so cheesy and distracting.
I agree
My history junior cert study
I'd be more interested in where Dev go so much power from and so fast, but not only Dev Mick also. . I've always been interested in that particular question. We're there Irish people in the background playing a dubble game. Playing everyone behind the scene is was maybe the slidder himself, master Churchill. It wouldn't surprise me one bit. He ego was the size of his head
Don't comment on a history that you so obviously know nothing about and learn to spell.
Ireland's brothers Croatia
Why didn't the British just move out of Ireland and let them have it?
BumBum II They are not loyal to anybody. They hav a guilty conscience about treating the gaels as slaves for 300 years stealing their land and starving them to death. They are paranoid about being equals in an Irish state.
Pablo Nush
This is a gross over-simplification. The fact is they identify with one part of the island of Ireland only. They have no affinity with the rest, and want to maintain the links with the political union within the UK.
Murderous greed..
What a stupid comment.
What about the people that wanted to remain British.
What about the 10s of thousands that had died fighting for Britain in the war.
@@pablonush4261 the wanted to wipe us out altogether. The wanted Ireland for dem selves
Ya mean if he's own hadn't turned on him
Never really understood what R.R.A was about 😐 Yes, I know there’s a huge sense of bitterness towards England.
Yeh some people over here in irland HATE the British still
aftr what has conspired since and the eu i never thought i say this but we would be better off in the union and out of the communist eu
BIRexit
Go drink your Novichoks
The EU is Communist tyrannical
Why did England rule Croatia.
Collins should never have signed the treaty. It should've been obvious that it would precipitate a civil war.
So you wanted to keep the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland?!
My Grand parents fought in all wars from 1916 right up past the civil war. Collins sold his soul to the devil when he ordered the attack on his Irish Brothers and sisters.
1798UnitedIrishMen it was either that or the brits would have had to come back.
1798UnitedIrishMen De Valera was the sellout, he was a chameleon. More like Ian Paisley than Michael Collins.
steveN111333 Even being forced back into the UK could not have been worse than the horrors of the Civil War and the Troubles.
Sad.
@@Vroomfondle1066 keyboard warriors never surrender,
Demonstrate to me The Kindness of Any " British King"...and I will Call you a Liar./Such is The Lot of The Irish./The Crown Cares only Ultimately for itself.
George V is the only king in British history I feel who cared about Ireland he wanted a peaceful settlement and reconciliation between all.
Up the RA 🍀🇮🇪
The IRA - Those murderers of their fellow countrymen…..
I might agree once upon a time, but from what I hear, the iRA are all Marxists now.
So no. 👎
@@tulipalll Your correct
Why did the Irish even think they ever had the slightest chance of taking Ulster into their new republic, we wanted nothing to do with it then & even less now. Lest they forget, Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right.
Fuck off tout
Only a dumbass would fight against his kin and for Theresa May
Just you wait.
Without the British State you would not fight your drunken shadow.
All Ulster did was create a regime of bigotry, discrimination and murderous violence for eighty odd years, but everyone knows you are losing now.
Bhí Michael Collins ina thráchtóir dá mhuintir agus do mo mhuintir san Oirthuaisceart.
Traitor to his people and mine in the North East.