Could had simply said secondary= quicker heating of area and more wood consumption Versus Catalyst = more efficient, last longer with longer heat up times.
@@tinmaninc2023well said, that being said, my blaze king princess is three years old.The cat is starting to deteriorate, not sure why I burn dry wood in it, is that something that's under warranty?
I have a Blaze King Princess. I am a shift worker and I work 12 hour shifts. What I like about the Blaze King with the catalyst is that even with the air vent fully open (it gets down to -35 C in northern Alberta), there are still lots of coals left when I get home. I live about 45 minutes out of town. So, basically, it has not problem burning for a full 14 hours, even with the air vent fully open. That is a big plus for me. After a 12 hour shift, I don't want to be bothered relighting a cold stove. I just throw more wood in the woodstove and it takes off. I do agree that that catalyst is expensive. Part of the reason that I want to burn wood is to save money. However, with heating costs going up every year, I think maybe buying a new catalyst every other year is not the worst thing in the world. When the catalyst is new, the whole thing blows bright red. When it gets older, it doesn't glow as bright, however, there is still virtually no smoke going out of the chimney. It still burns very clean.
you have to replace that catalyst every year? not so good for when the shit hits the fan and you can't buy them anymore. Looks like I'll be sticking to the other one.
I'm in central BC and heat my home entirely with wood. I have a Blaze King King. It's awesome. I see no reason, however, to replace the catalyst each year - they should last a minimum of 5 years (probably closer to ten).
@@King_TuTT You don't need to replace it this often... but you also don't need to use it. ;) You don't need to run it in catalytic mode. Losing the catalytic unit makes it less efficient, but it will still be better than most non-catalytic other stoves.
@@LifesLaboratory if you run it in the non cat mode all the heat will go straight up the chimney and you may also cause damage or warping to the bypass. It’s also better to go by catalytic life in hours not years. They only last 10,000-12,000 hours which would not stretch out to 10 years unless you only burned weekends.
@@wobdeehomestead Correct. The guy at the stove shop trying to sell me a cat model said with our 6 month winters, using the stove full time means 2-3 years lifespan.
We have the Blaze King Princess this is our 8th year with it I have NOT replaced the CAT yet but one day I will have to I knew this going into this deal. We follow the instruction with the stove to a T!!! This stove is one of the best purchases we've ever made the stove does what the brochure says. I manly feed and run the stove myself 7 months a year get you one you wont be sorry.There is a reason it has King in the name its the KING of wood stoves!!! Thank You Blaze King!
@@scottdhorn Hearthstone coined the phrase "heatlife" and Blaze King works very similar to that if that's the type of stove you have. Low heat over a long period of time. Main difference being with Blaze King is you have half a load of wood still in the firebox in the morning.
This is with out a doubt the best video I've ever seen on explaining the differences between a catalytic and a secondary air wood stove. I've never had a catalytic stove, but I sure get tired of feeding my secondary air stoves. I now have the Hearthstone. My previous stove was a LOPI. My friend nick-named this stove, "Low output, per input" and he was right. My Hearthstone takes at least an hour to heat up those soapstones so they start radiating heat. Then the fire only last about 2 hours and it's time to refuel. Unless you want the stove strictly for the way the fire looks, I'd get the catalytic stove.
Do you have one of the truhybrid soapstone models? If so, what's your take on them? They seem to have very mixed reviews on build and quality the past few years
We have one of largest jotul wood stoves and it has no trouble burning 6-8 hours on a load of wood once it's fully warmer up and has a bed of coals. It is the only hear source in our house which is almost 5000 square feet. It's an old house from the 1890s and is not well insulated.
@@briankirwan9588 I am heating a combined 2600 square feet with a blazeking Ashford, I load wood once a day in the morning and leave it be. It's a cat stove, if I want the ambiance of the fire I open my damper and bypass the cat. That's usually only done when people are over otherwise Cat engaged, damper down to a lower setting. My stoves in my basement and it heats both the basement and main floor easily. If you need to heat an absolutely huge space with a cat stove I'd go to blazekings king model thing is a beast, my friend has it for his huge farm hours and is heating around 4200 Sq feet. It actually does the heating a little too efficiently imo cause his house is really warm.
@@QuietlyContemplating I don't think it's the dryness of your wood, but maybe it's harder wood. I've lived in the Colorado Rockies and Northern Idaho, and there just isn't much hardwood to be found. Maybe in towns you see more hardwoods, but not in Nature without human help.
Earned a thumbs up on this one, this is the first video I’ve seen that explained the difference for me. I had a secondary burn stove and thought it was catalytic. I had a single wall riser off it, and the sticker took a while to blacken and burn off. It took about 10-12 hrs on a full load and worked great. I loved seeing the flames. Almost no creosote in the chimney. My nephew had an old Ashley (conventional)that was twice as large, took twice or more wood per load, and burned it all up in about 2-3 hours. Now that I’ve moved, I’m looking for another and the thought of the catalytic type might work better for me in my old age. Less to tote One time I burned some old oak that someone had in the basement for 15+ years and it was scary how hot that dry old wood got
Absolutely one of the best videos explaining the efficiency of a wood stove. You made it easy for me to decide as I am now replacing my 20 year old Regency.
Why are you replacing your Regency? I changed the tubes and firebrick and it performs perfectly. The chamber separator is still good. The parts are simple to replace.
I’ve been burning a hobby stove in my ice fishing hut for a few years now. No ice fishing has me wanting a wood burner in the house. Best video I’ve found talking about the difference in modern stoves. Thanks.
Its amazing how these wood stoves have grown. Makes my wood stove look like a backyard fire for efficiency. And it was the best stove available years ago.
My wife and I just got a house with a stove. I was researching if it was any good and apparently it is a very nice secondary air stove. This video helped me identify what type it was. This video also helped me understand that the secondary air stove is what I want for the goals that I have for a stove.
New Years Dec '97 Girlfriend and I were in a cabin in Western Massachusetts with a catalytic woodburning stove. It took a bit to get it warm enough to cet the catalyst hot enough, then it kicked in. No smoke out the chimney, serious heat in the cabin.
This has been the most helpful vid in comparing the virtues of each style. I want a backup heat source and something to run on weekends so secondary burn it is. I love the simplicity of it. Thanks!
I had a Vermont Casting catalytic stove when I bought the house. It was terrible. It was hard to use, you really had to dial it in, the catalytic went bad and the stove didn’t run properly and it was expensive. I replaced that stove I’ve had secondary air since. Currently I’m running an Enviro insert and a Pacific Energy. Great efficiency, clean burning and easy to use. Zero complaints. This is a great video that really breaks down the differences.
Unfortunately Vermont Castings stoves is the main reason cat stove have received a bad name in the industry. Since then they have been purchased and revamped their units. They now tend to work better then before and don't rely on cats.
There are only so many BTU's in each stick of wood. Each type of stove will release basically the same amount but the cat stove has the capability to release them slower and longer. This is good for those relatively warmer Spring and Fall days where you dont need that much heat but when its colder expect to run it hotter like the non cat stove. The catalyst will only last 10-12000 hours so if your a 24/7 burner in a cold climate expect a pricey $200-300 replacement every other year after your warranty is up.
Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about. Burn time is not total heat output. People confuse BTU's per hour (Power ) with total BTU's (Energy).
Wood type and moisture has a lot to do with burn time as well. The Jotul manual on the secondary air stoves specifically states that wood that is too dry will burn too fast in their stoves.
I have had both, I burn softwood that is not very dry, for long periods of time. Cat takes up a lot of chamber and plugged up real fast. Secondary has been much better, good long burn with little chimney cleaning.
@@D-B-Cooper It is a major mistake to burn wood that is not ideally dry. (If you do not need a lot you could staple some nearby the stove if you have the space and it will lose some water in the house (still costs some energy, that is like drying laundry inside, but at least the burning process is efficient and clean. Soot in chimney - more cleaning and a fire hazard, could even get tricky if you ever have a fire and the insurance company has a look at your chimney. it will likely not be good for the catalyst and it drastically reduces efficiency. The water in the wood has to dry out and that costs energy, you lose that for heating. Plus more air pollution.
@@xyzsame4081 I live in a rain forest, the ambient humidity precludes having wood dry below 10%. I burn about 5 cords a winter and have done so for years. The only soot I develop is in the cap where the smoke hits the cold air and condenses. I now have a stove with a secondary air system, works great. Soot is a product of having a very low fire that is why new stoves no longer let you throttle it down to smolder all night. The hotter the fire the more the gasses burn off. There is a vid on yt where someone tested kiln dried, seasoned and wet wood. The resulting graft was quite interesting. The only difference was in how quickly the fire came up to maximum heat, otherwise they all produced the same amount of heat and burned for the same length of time. I was once burned out in a wildfire that also burned a thousand homes, I was insured but they never paid me a dime so am no fan of insurance companies.
The only time our Blaze King ever uses the bypass is once a year (or twice if we go on a holiday) . Then it doesn't ever get low enough temperatures to need too use the bypass. In the morning I just turn the air control up a bit, the flame immediately starts so I can see how much wood is left and often can go a couple more hours. We only add wood 3-4 times for 24 hours of comfort. My neighbour who I buy my seasoned wood from says ,You hardly use your wood stove? When I say we never turn it off he was confused because you can't see anything but moisture for several minutes after adding wood (10-14% moisture) - the rest of the time it is just heat waves. It seems like it defies physics. LOVE it! He had to come it to prove to him it was going. He couldn't believe it. NO fire! He said. Nope there doesn't need to be a fire - just let it smoulder. The difference between smoke between our stoves is like the difference between an old diesel truck and an electric car. Sadly we have to breathe his smoke. And he uses 3 times more wood than we do.
Thank you for the clear concise explanations. After moving from Arizona to the Ozarks 15 years ago only recently decided to put in a wood stove. Had inefficient fireplaces in the past. But it was mostly aesthetic thing anyway. I've been using the stove a little over two weeks burning primarily Red Oak cut from standing dead trees. It is a secondary air England wood stove but I had done no research before buying from the local hardware store. And that gentleman wasn't much help. LOL Seems I was lucky though. In England's owner handbook they stated the fresh air intake port on the back could either draw off house air or outside air if code demanded it or if the house had a negative air pressure. So I hooked it up both ways using a tee and 2 shut off valves I can either draw outside or inside air. I have a friend who's shop stove has a fan hooked up too blow fresh air in the Firebox to assist in Rapid ignition during startups. So while I was at it I hook a nice quiet $15 computer fan up to the intake that draws off the house. "Seems to work as intended" England's handbook also stated to latch the door in the open position which cracks it about 1 in. For about 15 minutes upon startup. That is as efficient as the fan I installed. But the fan works better reloading on the hot coals in the morning. It helps to read the book all the way through in the beginning. I didn't do that. It has a airflow dampener which works really well but then I found out if you turn it counterclockwise it will set the valve to close off the primary air completely. It is thermostat controlled. Do how much depends on how hot it is. If you don't set it you will have nothing but Ash in the morning. but if you reload the stove before going to bed you do not only have a large coal bed but many of the logs will also be a giant glowing piece still intact. with little Flames popping up here and there about an inch. Which is why I came here. I was curious if that was enough Flame? Or that huge bed of glowing coals was better? my questions were answered. I'd like to add I didn't have time to season my firewood very well. I realize it will create more creosote but things are what they are. And after half an hour there rarely is any smoke exiting the stovepipe. 🤠🐂🏞️🛩️
Very informative. I've heard of catalytic stoves; they sound amazing. I've had a New Zealand built stove(Meridian) for 37 years and it is amazing as well; very efficient but probably not as efficient as a catalytic stove. My maximum burn time is about 18hrs with the air turned right down BUT it does blacken the glass at that setting so I tend to leave the air at around an eighth to a quarter open overnight; no dirty glass when I get up but plenty of coals to re-ignite a fresh load of wood. Thanks for the information.
I tend to favor hybrid burners that feature the best of both types of stoves like the Jøtul F 500 V3 Oslo or the Woodstock Progress Hybrid stove. They deploy both technologies described in this video and allow you to decide whether to go for a hotter, more attractive fire or a longer burning fire. The Jøtul stove has a new type of combustor that is guaranteed for 20 years and doesn't require a bypass damper for when the stove is heating up, so its first hour emissions are extremely low because it always burns in a clean mode. Catalytic stoves have very high emissions while their bypass dampers are open, and require you to pay close attention to the catalyst temperature after lighting a fire so that you know when to close the damper. If you happen to get an engrossing phone call or you fall asleep right after lighting the stove you may burn all the wood up with the damper open. Catalysts have come a long way but are still often the Achilles heels of catalytic wood stoves. When they are new and undamaged they do a great job of giving you a high efficiency burn but if they become damaged or worn out the efficiency of the stove can drop substantially.
@@haliaeetus8221 You can easily clean it, I use my shop vac to clean it up. If the cat needs servicing I would buy a new cat, install it and get the old one serviced. It should be a good long time 5~+ years before the cat is damaged. But from experience you will destroy your first cat in the first few years of operation while learning to use it. I have 3 species of wood I burn for heat, each has different settings and I don't have the luxery or space to let my wood dry / season for 2 years before I burn it. Most gets 6 months. So you will be cleaning it / servicing it. My practice is to use my shop vac to suck the ash out of the stove and then to take the shop vac to the cat. I do this every week and don't need to really worry about any other maintenance.
Thanks for the info about the Oslo 500. How do you increase the burn time other than reducing the front air inlet ? Also were you at all bother by the stove needing such thin pieces of wood ?
@@lrich9317 It doesn't require thin pieces of wood. Thin pieces are often used in demos because they catch on fire quickly. The front air inlet is the only control on the burn rate.
You can make any stove more efficient by feeding it outside air rather than having it consume your warm air which forcibly draws cold air into the house.
Fine presentation. We had Vermont Casting cat stoves for 2 decades when they first came out. Except for parts replacement the 3 VC Encores were fine heaters for primary heat in Maine. When the last Encores became too costly and time to repair we tried the "NEW AND IMPROVED" Flexburn models with the same form factor as old Encores. They did not function and were dangerous since the primary air controls malfunctioned on 2 Encore Flexburns with uncontrollable fires. The dealer ( a true pro ) refunded the full costs and took the stoves back. VC corporate was AWOL, even angry. Blaze King was on the agenda but high $$$$ and it would not fit our clearances since their thermostatic control at the rear needed too much spacing. The choice for the past 5+ years has been 2 Jotul Rangelys ( no longer made) non cats for 99% primary heat ( we have no central heat or thermostat like most set at say 65 F ) with NO problems including original gaskets and air tubes. We are home often enough to load when needed for heat. JMNSHO
Definitely team catalyst here. My Dad has a Blaze King princess. I remember visiting during November a few years back. (west coast of BC) He was working 12 hour days (6AM-6PM), Mom was out of town. I stopped in to visit and beat him home by about 10 minutes. I walked in the door at 6:30 PM and was greeted to a hot house that felt like stepping off a plane in Hawaii. It was about 3°C outside, but the rain and wind were pounding like crazy. Blowing rain sideways. A real cold damp night. I just so happened to have my IR temp gun with me. It was 25°C inside the house on the wall the farthest away from the wood stove. Every room felt wonderful. I asked him when he last put wood in there, because I couldn't fathom him putting in wood at 5AM just to go to work. He said "I put some in about 8 PM last night." I said "You've been burning this for over 22 hours?" He answered yep like I'd just asked him if 2+2 = 4. No smoke outside. No smell outside. The catalyst was in the active zone. I threw another log in and it caught fire with ease. (All his co-workers with non-catalyst stoves came home to cold houses) He has one of those heat sink powered fans on top of the stove. I've learned that when that fan starts to spin is also when the stove crosses into the active zone. Thus if you see the fan spinning, it's time to close the bypass and let it run clean. Takes about 20 minutes. The longer the fire runs, the better the catalyst works. Because as a fire starts to smoulder and slow down near it's end cycle, the cat will see more smoke. The smoke ignites in the cat and keeps the cat active, pushing heat back down into the wood until the fire is completely out (some 30 hours later......40 hours if you have the Blaze King king model) Those long burns leave you with very little ash. He told me he took about a teaspoon of creosote out of the chimney during his annual cleaning. Wood is his only source of heat. The catalyst lasted about 8 years or so. That seems decent to me. When you get older, the ability to burn about 1/3rd as much wood as you would with a traditional stove is a nice selling point. That's a lot less stacking, carrying, buying etc. The automatic thermostat (that you set from 1-4) is a nice feature. You set it on 4 (max) during the initial light. And then about 30 minutes later dial it down to where you want it. Usually 2, maybe 2.5..... 3 would be for nights when it's below freezing. Turning it down to 1 will prolong the fire. It's way better than constantly adjusting a manual damper all evening long. It's a real steady heat. House is comfortably warm without being too hot. The secondary air models have their place. If you only heat on weekends or only want a few hours of burn time (let the furnace do the rest) than a secondary air is what you want. If you're renting a home out, you want a secondary burn for the simplicity. (You need to open the bypass handle on a catalyst model before you open the door to keep smoke from spilling out). Secondary will give you the dancing flames but won't do much during the last stages of the fire for efficiency. The catalyst will often give you glowing orange wood with little to no flames. Occasionally you'll see a horizontal flame along the top of the stove but no flame coming out of the wood. That's the smoke igniting in the catalyst. It's a strange thing to see even when you know why. It will do the dancing flames after an hour or so during the initial light. But they won't be as pronounced as the secondary air stoves. The chimney is surprisingly not hot with the Blaze King. It's warm. You can touch it. But you won't burn your hand. There are lots of videos on youtube of people cutting a hole inside the chimney and holding their hand in there while the stove is running. They'll close the bypass and sure enough, the smoke goes to nothing. But why would it be hot? There is very little air going up a catalyst stove when it's active. Everything gets burnt inside the catalyst and radiated back downwards into the wood.
I'm old fashioned (B.C. central interior)...on occasion -50......just like a car or a body...."let it breathe".....we didn't care about WEF or local rules where I lived (B.C. is very, very ignorant liberal)......oxygen-fuel-ignition.......heat that puppy after a "safe install"....make it glow!
I have a lopi evergreen which is a secondary burn stove. I get about 10 hour burn times and will still have a nice bed of coals in the morning to start the next fire. I dont want to deal with a replacement catalyst every so often and i can make my own reburn tubes if i wanted. And seeing the floating dancing flames when I shut down the air is amazing to see
I have an old, 1990 Osburn with secondary air. I have coals after 10 hour overnight burn. Very happy with it. Mine has solid black metal in back for secondary air. Thick metal with air holes across the upper back of firebox. These new ones have all these tubes that may not last as long. Curious when they get rotted out like a BBQ but they are probably more efficient being over the whole top of fire. Cheers
This was a very informative video. The comment section was just as informative with lots of experiential comments from people that use wood stoves to heat their homes every year.
I'd be curious of what woods to avoid burning with the catalytic model. The secondary air wood stove, based upon similar experience with a wood burning insert, would be more flexible with what to burn, including coal in a pinch.
Thankyou for a very informative video. But you left out a very important point regarding these two fire places that people should be aware of before making a decision on either. Maintenance! The secondary fire place has minimal maintenance where as the catalytic fire place has much more required maintenance that has a fair cost associated with it due to cleaning/replacing the catalytic unit that is made of quite expensive materials. Happy to be corrected if I am not on the money here...
I think there is some merit to what you are saying to a point. It really comes down to the type of wood burnt. Well seasoned wood and barely any issues, unseasoned wood and plenty of issues for both. Depending on brand of stove secondary air stoves can be expensive to replace parts as well. Secondary air tubes and baffles often get broken and need to be replaced so both types of stoves can cost $$$ in maintenance. Hence why its not mentioned.
My woodstoves are old but extremely well built. Both have thermostatic cold air inlets so the burn is fairly efficient. I also have 2 Wiseway Non-electric pellet stoves. I use all 4 stoves during the winter. One woodstove to heat my barn and one to heat my "shop." I use the pellet stoves to heat my house. If pellets become expensive I have 2 spare woodstoves stored for "kust in case."
Excellent video. I think for my case where I will be using my cabin only on weekends, the secondary air stove will work better for me. I will need the cabin to warm up quick vs keeping it warm for long periods of time. However my buddy will be living in his cabin all the time and he has a Blaze King which will be going all day, every day in the winter time and that one is a lot better suited to him.
had both types and like the secondary air stove MUCH BETTER. No waiting for the combustor to heat up. The best way to tell if a stove is burning efficiently is to see what is coming out of the chimney. If you see smoke (unburned gasses) it is not efficient. If you see shimmering wavy exhaust with no smoke you are burning most efficiently. The secondary air stove is better in that regard in my 45 years burning experience. No smoke is most efficient (and no creosote).
I moved into a house with a Lennox County Secondary Air stove. It has primary air control but can't seen to find a secondary air control and assume it is "fixed" with entry at the lower portion of the firebox between panels of the side walls. Does that sound correct? I do get alot of smoke with starting or reloading the fire, after a while (hour) seems to burn without must less or no smoke.
@@neillee3793 It takes practice, trial and error, to reduce the smoke output when reloading. We learned not to wait too long, STT below say ~400, and the reload ignites quickly with minimum smoke. Also, fully opening the primary air control before reload and opening door. Slowly closing air control depending on how the reload burn takes off. Again, its a ymmv trial and error depending on stove, wood, size of reload, draft...
There definitely won't be any smoke coming out of a catalytic unit if it's in catalytic mode (or if it's burning hot in non-catalytic mode, in my experience). I haven't found the heating up time to be an issue.
a few things you didn't mention. are the wood stoves pickey on the types of wood you can burn, such as pine? lot and lots of pine here in Michigan. and you have to replace that catalyst every year? I wanted something that is bullet proof with no needing of parts just in case the shit hits the fan and you can't get parts.
Having used all types of wood stoves I would say I prefer the reburn. Although, the catalytic stove is an old Vermont Casting and they don't have the best reputation. Whatever stove you buy, get one with the lowest possibility of an air leak. i.e. no ash dump, few gaskets. That Vermont Casting has an ash dump and six different gaskets of varying sizes. After the last time I took it apart and cleaned it up it feels like it burns through the wood faster so it must have an air leak somewhere.
Thanks ,that was very informative now I know the difference. We have a Osburn 1100 model in our cabin and harvest alder hemlock and cedar from the property, my spouse Vickie always likes to see the flames so yes we burn a lot of wood.Cheers from Bowen Island ,BC Canada.
I have a blazeking princess 32. At 1st I didn't like it and was disappointed.. but learned I wasn't burning "truly seasoned wood" once I ordered kiln-dried wood and my own seasoned firewood mixed. Blazeking. IMO are by far superior compared to my napolen wood stove. Yes. It does take some patience but once you get the operating system down 6 pieces of wood burns/heats my whole 1600 sqft home nicely for a good 12/14 hrs on a high. To each and they're own. I personally prefer longer burns with more consistent heat output not worrying about loading up the fire box every 4/6 hours especially at night.
When we replaced our old Fisher stove about 30 years ago, cat stoves were really being pushed. What I learned by asking lots of questions was this: Is there a warranty on the catalyst--and for how long? (its perfectly possible to "poison" one). What's the catalytic efficiency at the end of the catalyst's life, compared to what it is at the start? Should your company go out of business or be sold, how long will replacement catalytic cartridges be available? Can I get a replacement cartridge, say, for my Oregon Woodstove (long defunct)? One thing that was a real stopper for a couple of candidates was "You show a left-hand hinge model. but we need a right-hand hinge one. Can you sell me one?" You would be amazed at the number of "no" responses we got on that one. After all the research, we wound up with the secondary burner. It cost more than the catalytic models, but it still works just fine. Heating efficiency isn't a big thing, as we own our own woodland and usually have far too much downed wood to be able to burn it all.
Amazing. Thank you very much. Bought the wrong stove. I am a Queenslander now living western NSW Australia. Winter is only short. However, wood is extremely expensive to buy. Oh well. I put my ceiling fan on reverse. That helps. Small cottage. It is warmer. However, not economical. $1,050.00 Australian dollars so far for wood? Down under Australia is not at all a cheap country to live in. I will be leaving country life too hard, expensive and boring. I live near Wyangla Dam. Closest town Cowra. WWll history here. Thank you very much. Great video. Very well explained. Fire box was $1,500.00 and too have it installed $900.00. All Australian dollars.
We bought a Princess 32 and installed it on Valentine's Day. The fire has never gone out, and the house stays at 70 deg. Load it a night, top-up in the morning, good for the day. The best part is that we're burning HALF the wood we were burning before. What a great stove for a home.
Great video. I didn't know catalytic stoves could give you burn times of 30 hours. That's crazy. Still, I think I prefer non-catalytic stoves. I have a Pacific Energy Super LE (non catalytic) and I'm pretty satisfied with the 6-7 hours burn time. This stove is very efficient and well built. The only thing I don't like about these secondary air EPA stoves is that they prevent you from closing air intake completely. I have a straight and tall chimney and that gives me a very strong draft. Sometimes when the temperature outside is cold the fire becomes uncontrollable even with air intake shut all the way down. Second combustion goes nuclear and the only thing I can do when it happens is look at my fire hoping it calms down. Not cool.
Completely opposite with cat stoves. BK uses about 70% less air and are not prone to over draft issues as secondary stoves are. Each has its place and I am glad you love your PE.... just don't overfire the stainless baffle in the top.
@@tinmaninc2023 Thanks for the heads up. The only solution I found to prevent overfiring is to put less wood during reloads... which is ok but not ideal. My PE dealer told me he is not authorized to install a key damper on my stove pipe due to some construction regulations in my province.
@@lrich9317Well I contacted PE about my excessive draft situation and they responded that in my case a key damper is probably be the best solution to my problem. Almost everyone on the hearth forums also suggests I install a key damper. So I will install one and see if it makes a diffence this winter. I'll try to think about coming back here and report my results!
Hey great review I have the Blaze King Princess and I love it. I burn a mixture of hard and soft wood with no problem and I get a good 11-12 burn time with stove turned up 1/4 or so and where I live there are lots of windy days. This is a great thing to know when a storm has gusts up to 100km hr the Blaze King burns the same no out of control fires and burn time stays almost exactly the same and another note. Very very low soot build up in the chimney which eliminates chimney fires. I had two cup fulls of ash in a full season of burning which is 4-5 months with really dry fire wood. Secondary stoves are good too but lighting my fire once every few weeks and getting a long burn time is great for a home owner. God bless
Run your air intake directly from the outside into the back top of an old fridge and out through the bottom to the stove. This is great in the winter time because the fridge will be ice cold. No electric. And the plus is by taking outside air into the stove directly, the heat will go out any air gaps, instead of the other way around. I've done this myself years ago. The pipes can get frosty, but that's a good thing. Because can put it to good use if you stop and think about it. PS. Don't need any bigger than 2 inch pipe, plenty of air with that.
I have the secondary air stove and love it. Long burn times. Only time I get smoke out of it is when I load it and that maybe for 10 minutes. MUST have seasoned wood for efficiency and for long burn times 9 to 10 hours. I lay my logs left to right for long burn times. To get quick heat I place my logs front to back. Heats a 1,500 sq foot home. It was 80 degrees when I woke this morning and I loaded it up 8 hrs before hand. I open the door in the morning so it can burn down and I can remove some ash, then after a couple of hours I will load it up again for a long burn. It was 28 degrees over night nice and comfortable in here. I have a unit on my stove pipe with a thermostatic fan to capture heat going up the 10 ft tall chimney. I removed the top sheet metal ( for an optional factor fan unit) to make for a larger cooking area. Heat feels better and food taste better. I am sure that's all in my mind but it does to me. Great video!
I'm pleasantly surprised with my Drolet. I basically do what you do. I can usually get a good 10-12hrs burn time with a good bed of coals for relighting in the morning. I don't sleep for more then 4-5 hrs anyway but have let the stove run its course to compare it to manufacturers specs. And as far as creosote build up I get maybe a 1 cup every 6 months out of my chimney....
@@jedidiah5131 That is my manufactured brand also. I was old school and was not quite sure about the new regulated stoves. We had a damper on the chimney and on the door of our old school.. if you stayed with it and had good door gaskets you could burn efficiently. I am impressed with my stove now and recommend.
@nobleroofinggeneralcontrac7961 and @jedidiah5131 I spent quality time this weekend researching wood stoves and have decided on the Drolet Nano, I have a really small place. Glad to see positive reviews of them. Any tips and tricks are greatly appreciated.
A great explanation, thank you. Which do you recommend for a fairly mild climate (Southern California, 4000 elevation, winters down to 25ish at the coldest, 1900 sqft house with 20 foot vaulted ceiling in the stove room). The longer burn of a catalyst is appealing. Is it suitable for those shoulder seasons where you might not want a ton of heat during the day, but do at night and in the morning? Does such a situation increase creosote creation? Thanks!
I do mind getting up at 4am to reload but I like the quick starts and hotter fires and flames. I get wood dropped off for free so not worried about how much I use.
I didn't hear you mention one of the BEST features of the Blaze Kings. The automatic air control !!!! That works like a thermostat for a furnace and automatically adjusts the air supply damper to maintain constant temperatures throughout the burn cycle. This one feature of the Blaze Kings that I would never give up and of course it helps that they are the longest burning wood stoves available. I have a Princess in my shop and a King Ultra in my house. I bought both of them new and still use them every burning season. The Princess is about 20 years old and the Ultra is 14 years old and both still work great.
My shop is 32 x 40 x11 and the princess is OK if I keep it going. I only have R20 insulation in the ceiling. I would suggest getting the Blaze King "King" for the shop if it is reasonably well insulated. I have a King in the house and it heats the whole house, up and down until it gets really cold (-30C) then I have to add some electric help. House is about 1300 square ft up and same down.@@henryhenry5897
@@louiswestfall9622 The one in the shop was changed out when we moved here 14 years ago and its still in use today. The one in the house was changed out twice. The first time because my moron electrician thought it would be a good idea to throw some plastic into the stove while it was burning. Ruined the combuster and he paid for the replacement . The second time was about 7 years ago because I was having draught problems and thought the combuster wasn't working properly. Turned out it was not a combuster issue.
@@HillBilly-wc4dl thanks for reply yes I’ll prob insulated it with 4“ closed cell sprayfoam about r25 wich is really outperforming any r40-50 fiber so I’d call it very well insulated ....
Could you discuss what the burn rate of the catalytic stove turned up to flat out or did I miss that bit. Do they generate the same heat per hour when turned up to max. Thank you.
For me the ambiance of flames 🔥 is important. The long slow burn I doubt would give a pleasing glow and offer that much desired effect. I could see it being useful for overnight heat, we used to bank up our open coal fire and turn off the draft so it baked the coal and the crust formed kept the house toasty warm then in the morning break the crust and away it would go. Thanks for explaining the two.
I wonder if that Catalyst makes the air outside smell like a Flatulant? Back in the 80s, I built a stove from a piece of 18" pipe. Had a top Horizontal 6" exhaust, a large baffle forcing the exhaust to go around the ends before exiting into the Flue, (which was 20 feet tall). Since the Stove was ROUND, there was no need for Fire Brick to keep the corners from splitting open, and it made a LOT of heat. Round stoves make the fire fall into itself, so burns are much more complete. After 5 YEARS, I swept my flue pipe, to get 1/8 cup of tan dust. NONE of these new square stoves would do that. But thanks for the good info. Nice video.
Very interesting comment! I built a small 16” long stove out of oilfield pipe. 3/8” thick I believe and about 14” wide pipe. Anyway with that stove I never ran a brush through the chimney in 4 years of burning half dry and often green wood ( to gain burn times). Creosote would collect in the top of my chimney cap but that’s it. Then I moved into a house and had a secondary air style stove. One of the best ( Super 27). Now I clean my chimney once a month and I use seasoned wood on top of that. I run it very hot often but it still stays pretty dirty in the pipe. I wonder if the round stove vs my square style stove plays a roll.
Me either and i heat soley with wood. My stove is just inexpensive wood burning stove that was here when I bought the place, looking to upgrade. I cut and split my own wood.
What happens when you can go longer by a replacement catalyst for the stove? How long do these catalyst last? Does a catalyst really burn that long or is it just a bunch of bull specs? I can't imagine anything burning 30 hrs or even 20 for that matter on one load of wood. Lower for longer periods of time is exactly what I need but in concerned about replacing the catalyst etc. Can a catalyst replacement be made easily?
This is extremely helpful. It would be nice to know what the price difference is between these two stoves I know they would vary from state to state but it would be nice to have a general idea. And do these stoves come in smaller models. You mentioned this heats a 2500 square-foot home which would be too large for what I’m looking for.
I have a BK King. Myself and two friends in CT bought ours all at the same time back in 2009 ($1925 each, don't know what they cost now, but I'm sure they're worth every penny). Anyway, we all remove and clean the cat at least once a year. All of us use the stoves all winter long, and we are all still using the original cat! I do have a spare cat which I bought with the stove, but haven't installed it. Awesome stoves!
Nice improvements. My Avalon secondary burn stove can get smoky at low damper setting. What about an option for outdoor air connection for the fire box? That seems like a great idea.
My Drolet HT2000 also has an airwash system to help keep the glass a little cleaner or is it all part and parcel with the secondary air....And thanks for the explanation/video.
What happened to us when we had a catalytic stove was our chimney ran so cold as so much of the heat was removed by the stove that we got much water from the wood running down the chimney that made a mess. Stove worked too well that we just could not keep enough heat in the chimney despite burning dry seasoned hard wood.
@@colleenthomas353 Condensation occurs when the flue gases are not hot enough to heat the chimney. Maybe the stove or the catalytic is clogged up inside somewhere and is not running hot enough. Maybe your house is too airtight and the stove is not drawing properly. Hard to say, you should check things out one at a time.
@@vinquinn Thanks- the catalytic converter was new as was the stove and it ran hot like the dealer and owners manual said it should-worked so well that not enough heat made it into the chimney. The house was an older house on a lake not that air tight. Don't get me wrong the stove heated the house great and the wood lasted much longer than the old box stove but the dealer and us could not stop the moisture problem. We ended up selling the house so I don't know how the new owners made out.
Great video. Very informative! Where does the secondary air generally pull from? Specifically asking for our Jotul Oslo F500 secondary air stove. It’s hard to tell where the pipes draw from.
How clean do the flues compare on the two? We have a secondary air burning Englander and love it. Flue is completely clean and do not need to chimney sweep. So your left stove burns for 10 hours while the catalytic one goes for 30. Are those 30 hours of smoldering wood? It would seem that way but does the catalyst last through a typical winter? Seems like it would clog up quickly with slow burning wood. We get a good blaze going in the evening then shut the draught down. Still toasty in the morning and often coals can be stirred up to ignite a new fire (depends how much wood was stoked in there the night before). Tip: we strip bark (that is loose on properly seasoned hardwood) to start a new fire with coals. If ashes are cold, we use a parrafin/sawdust block below the bark and a bit of kindling with split wood on top. I vote for secondary air combustion, especially Englander, an amazing stove and shame I heard they went bankrupt.
There are also Hybrid stoves that take advantage of both technologies. Woodstock Soapstone based in Lebanon NH is a well know producer of those. There may be others as well, I'm just not sure.
I have a catalytic wood stove, and the biggest downside is the delay in getting heat when you start them cold. It is like preheating an oven. First you establish the fire, then you run the stove with the bypass damper open for at least 20 minutes to get the stove and the catalyst hot. Then you shut the bypass damper and start getting meaningful heat out of the thing. For a cold cabin that is maybe 30 degrees inside, that is a long time to be cold. But once you get past that slow start up, they work great, as long as you are burning seasoned, dry wood.
Yeah that is a downside with cabins. In cases like that I generally recommend a secondary air stove to my customers who come in the showroom. Cat stoves work best burned every day.
Thanks, very informative! I wasn't aware that catalytic wood stoves even existed! They might be banned by my countrys legislations. I have had a secondary air stove for 15 years now (Jøtul F350) and get through 9000 liters of fuel every season.
But what does the catalyst actually do with the gases coming from the burning (smoldering) wood)?? By what mechanism does it produce heat i.e. make the oven more efficient? And those small tubes in the catalyst - don't they get clogged with soot pretty quickly?
The catalyst, once it is up to its operating temp, actually 'reacts' with the smoke. It's actually a chemical reaction with the smoke, same as the way the catalytic converter in your car reacts with your car's exhaust. This reaction creates primarily two things: heat and water vapour, with only minor impurities (emissions) remaining. No, there should be no soot build up in a secondary air tube. No exhaust goes through these tubes, just fresh air. (They are the conduit for the stove's secondary air supply.) They can degrade and burn through in time though and would then need to be replaced. (Just like the burn tubes in a BBQ.) Cheers!
We own a blaze king sirocco , and we have owned many different types through our 30 years of heating with wood and we have owned a secondary air stove as well , and as far we are concerned there is nothing more efficient than a catalyst wood stove , for heating with the least amount of wood it is the way to go . We heat from October to May and on our coldest season we only used 6 face cords of wood .
how large and how well insulated is your home. I will likely be ordering one of these stoves next week. I live in a well insulated 1,200 sq. bottom floor, 600 sq. top floor home.
Would you tell me what is the diameter of the holes and how many that are on the top secondary air burn on left ??? The tubes look like 3/4 inch diameter, am I correct on that fact ?? The catalyst blaze king, how long does the catalytic element last as you stated by type Sir ??? My last question is the safety of the glass door breaking or exploding causing a house fire ??? Would you give me a quote on each stove and shipping cost to eastern Pennsylvania Sir. Do these stoves come in larger sizes ??? Thanks a bunch and have a great day too. Look forward to do business with you fella. Peace vf
I had a catalytic stove at one time. The catalyst grid was constantly getting fouled with fly ash. Performance declined rapidly and It needed cleaned every few days. It also failed to work entirely after a few weeks and was expensive to replace. I now have a "secondary air" stove that I find entirely satisfactory.
That is the main reason why I will NEVER buy a woodstove with a catolithic convertor. Waste of money if you ask me. Not to mention the added cost on the stove.
Where does the air come into the stove in the first place. Is it from inside the house or from a direct line to outside with a manual air control valve. Bc you don't show any of that. And that can make all the difference in heating.
I live in South Florida and only have to turn on the resistive heat in my central AC about 2 nights a year but an fascinated by these wood burners on YT.
Have the secondary air stove, can get four good hours with oak, use a squirrel cage fan for air movement around stove, works great in the basement, actually heats the whole house with it. The stove is 8 years old and has paid for itself many times over. Love how the heat warms everything up in the house, especially the floor in the bathroom, my toes are very cold sensitive 😊
Nicely informative video. But 5 sec of silence on a static card at the front had me wondering if it was playing. Need either motion or audio or both, right up front.
Can you cook on top of both? I have old cast iron type, and has 2 plates I can lift off and put frying pan with fire ring on it and do a nice breakfast. It has top air inlet for when lifting the pan or cover off, so it doesn't smoke out the holes during that transition. For something like this winter in Texas, when power also went out, probably the stove that gives more light would be preferable, although for that I use a dual filament propane coleman lantern hanging on a chain from ceiling hook.
what is the estimated lifetime of the catalytic unit and what is the average replacement cost? I have a secondary air stove and there is practically no parts to wear out/replace so I am curious about the extra cost. The extra long burn time at night has me interested.
I can't really speak for other brands then Blaze King as that's what we sell. There are replacements parts needed for all stoves including secondary air as baffles, air tubes, and shields are often replaced. Some people can go 20 years with replacing those parts while other only get a year or two. This is really no different then Cat stoves like Blaze King. It really depends on how you look after it and how you follow the manufacturers instructions. BK cats have a 10 year warranty on the original cat that comes with the stove. Again some customers go beyond that while others only get a year or two. The question for you is " Are you able to follow manufacturers instructions to preserve the life of your stove while being rewarded with less wood consumption and even heat output?"
@@tinmaninc2023 Thank you for the info. I am able to follow instructions, just was curious about lifetime of the cat unit and cost. I guess i can google the cost. Lifetime should be in line with the warranty. Manufacturer goal is to NOT replace anything under warranty. I do wonder on the cat stove, how tolerant they are to wood that may be slightly green. I know my sec air stove smolders at times and I just open the air and let it burn up. I try to make sure it is seasoned well but occasionally get some small batches that aren't quite dry.
Great video. Thank you. We bought a house with a Blaze King and I had no idea that the dampener was to be open until the gauge read Active. Can I burn Dura Flame type logs just for a quick fire or will they ruin the catalytic converter. Thank you
I've been burning wood for over 40 years. We use a Quadra Fire 3300 to heat our whole house. From what i have heard and read, it is not recommended to use hyped up fake logs with a catalyst stove, due to the chemicals used to keep the logs burning. It may contaminate the coating on the wafer.
@@wesbaumguardner8829 Secondary Air stoves tend to have hotter flue gas temps as they can go from 400 to 1000 degrees. Cat stoves tend to have lower flue gas temps generally less then 400 degrees.... its not abnormal to see temps drop as low as 100 degrees. On the surface there isn't much difference as both max out my Flir infrared camera. By feel it appears secondary air stoves get hotter on the surface which makes sense as they have more air entering the firebox.
wondering if it would be possible to design a cat stove with secondary air pipes to ignite that soot and smoke allowing for a cleaner burn. The cleaner hotter air would then pass through the cat and do the same job as it already does. Edit: just learned about hybrid stoves. I thought i was being smart.
I have a 2021 lopi liberty, throws great heat easy to light with the green start, but I'm constantly filling it, last year I burned 12 face cord, but this year i'm already at 10 face cord and we havent hit the dead of winter yet. I am gone from 530 am till 6pm everyday for work, and gone most weekends, and when I come home, my house is colder than I want, so my question is would a princess help me out with my issues? Thanks
Thank you. We have a 12-14 year old QuadraFire 7100. This is a secondary air unit. I have absolutely perfect cut and cured firewood. It’s kept in a shed and dry with good airflow. I also burn Enviro Brick fire logs. These fire logs are 100% hard wood sawdust compressed under 25 tons of pressure. This compression forms a hardwood brick Anyway the firewood will burn about 5-6 hour and put off heat for an additional 3-4 hours. The Enviro bricks stacked with about 1” space staggered two packages and we get a 6-7 hour burn with additional heat of 3-4 hours. With both kind of fuel, the peak heat at is from about 30 min after lighting and maintained peak heat for about 4 hours then it begins a gradual decline. The quadrafire 7100 is a discontinued model. It has some issues, we have owned two of them over the years in different homes. The issues we have had is: (1) glass always smokes up as the fire begins to cool. (2) the auto air controller needs to be serviced or replaced every 4-5 years. (3) the door handles melt if left in the open position (4) the door seals and glass seals go bad every 2 years. We are getting ready to remodel. Im thinking we will go with a stove this time. We use the QuadraFire as primary heat once temps are below 40F. I need stove that will heat about 3000 Sq ft.
There are stoves out there but it depends on what you are looking to accomplish. The room with the stove will get extremely hot and it that okay then a secondary air stove will work fine like a Osburn 3500, Quadra-fire 5700, Pacific Energy Summit, etc. Max burn time 12 hours.... going with a cat stove you could look at the Blaze King model King 40 or Regency F5200. Both of these require an 8" chimney while the secondary air stoves require 6".
I have a jotul 600 "secondary air" stove. It easily maintains a fire overnight. I also have unlimited quantities of various types of oak firewood. This allows me to heat my house with a 28 ft vaulted ceiling with 24 ft of vertical single wall pipe.
1st thanks for the good information. That said, I have an older inefficient stove that likes getting fed on a regular basis. But I get the heat I'm looking for. The stove is in the basement so warm floors is great. Burn time is nice but heat is the reason the stove is going. My question is , will the BK give me the heat OR mainly prolong burn time? S.
BK stoves have a more constant heat.....your current stove has more highs and lows like peaks and valleys so your basement warms and cools with every load of wood added. BK stoves don't have to produce the same kind of heat because they don't cool down and are more easily controlled with their built in thermostat. Hope that makes sense.
@@tinmaninc2023 what is the % difference with these 2 stoves in a equal size home with the bk at a constant heat, , I have a two story 22 x 65. I live in Mn. I’m guess what I’m asking is the bk going to keep it warm enough so I don’t have to have my Lp kick in on, I’m a painter (artist) I have ok installation. Thank you in advance🍂
Sure wish I had watched this video before getting my first wood stove! Not because I regret the secondary wood stove it did buy because by chance it is the type I do want! But at least I would have understood what the differences where haha. Thank you!
We were thinking of putting a wood stove in the basement. Unfinished basement. We have central heat n air. Basement is cool n a little humid. Now I’m not sure which one to get. Pros and cons for both. Decisions
For some this a lifetime component for others its something they will get a few years out of. It really depends on what is burned in the stove. Replacement is somewhere around $300.
How often do you have to clean out the ash? Can you send me a video of that? To me it sounds like the catalytic one would be best for me. Thanks for the info. I live in Baltimore Maryland where we get cold temperatures this time of year. My gas and electric bill is pretty high right now.
Ash disposal depends on the wood type and moisture content. Generally you clean out the ash when the amount of wood you can normal fit in there lessens.
Yes any wood is fine as long as its seasoned. WIth coal I would say no as the manufacturers to my knowledge do not test these stoves for coal. If they did it would be listed which I have never come across in the manuals.
I have no idea what temps are inside the firebox. I have measured low numbers coming out of the flue pipe in low 100's. Thats also dependent on the wood type, moisture content, etc.
Hi. Great video. Suppose one burns seasoned wood only and properly uses the stove per instruction, does the fire window still get dirtier faster with a catalytic stove therefore having to clean it more frequently?
Great question, yes and no.... cat stoves get dirtier glass when burning on low but because of the high temps of the cat it cleans off the glass very well.
@@safffff1000, I never use the blower that came with our stove. The radiant heat it produces is more than enough to heat our home. When it's 30 degrees or less we will sit an Eco Fan heat powered fan on it to just stir the air. But, ours is a Blaze King, which is amazing. Not sure what you're using.
That's a great question. I guess the real reason we don't see that is due to certification. Camp stoves don't really have to be certified or need to be EPA friendly. The other issue I can see with it is seasoned wood, its pretty much the only thing you can get to work in energy efficient stoves. So if your chopping it down and burning it the same day these types of stoves will not work well.
@@tinmaninc2023 Most of the features of high efficiency clean burning wood stoves that make them good at their jobs - bypasses, catalysts, heavy steel or cast iron to retain and radiate heat for many hours - don't lend themselves to portability.
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This is by far the clearest and the most concise explanation for the subject. Thank you
thanks so much. Really appreciate the comment.
Could had simply said secondary= quicker heating of area and more wood consumption
Versus Catalyst = more efficient, last longer with longer heat up times.
@@jamy8575I could have but then it would not have made for a very good video.
@@tinmaninc2023well said, that being said, my blaze king princess is three years old.The cat is starting to deteriorate, not sure why I burn dry wood in it, is that something that's under warranty?
I have a Blaze King Princess. I am a shift worker and I work 12 hour shifts. What I like about the Blaze King with the catalyst is that even with the air vent fully open (it gets down to -35 C in northern Alberta), there are still lots of coals left when I get home. I live about 45 minutes out of town. So, basically, it has not problem burning for a full 14 hours, even with the air vent fully open. That is a big plus for me. After a 12 hour shift, I don't want to be bothered relighting a cold stove. I just throw more wood in the woodstove and it takes off. I do agree that that catalyst is expensive. Part of the reason that I want to burn wood is to save money. However, with heating costs going up every year, I think maybe buying a new catalyst every other year is not the worst thing in the world. When the catalyst is new, the whole thing blows bright red. When it gets older, it doesn't glow as bright, however, there is still virtually no smoke going out of the chimney. It still burns very clean.
you have to replace that catalyst every year? not so good for when the shit hits the fan and you can't buy them anymore. Looks like I'll be sticking to the other one.
I'm in central BC and heat my home entirely with wood. I have a Blaze King King. It's awesome. I see no reason, however, to replace the catalyst each year - they should last a minimum of 5 years (probably closer to ten).
@@King_TuTT You don't need to replace it this often... but you also don't need to use it. ;) You don't need to run it in catalytic mode. Losing the catalytic unit makes it less efficient, but it will still be better than most non-catalytic other stoves.
@@LifesLaboratory if you run it in the non cat mode all the heat will go straight up the chimney and you may also cause damage or warping to the bypass. It’s also better to go by catalytic life in hours not years. They only last 10,000-12,000 hours which would not stretch out to 10 years unless you only burned weekends.
@@wobdeehomestead Correct. The guy at the stove shop trying to sell me a cat model said with our 6 month winters, using the stove full time means 2-3 years lifespan.
We have the Blaze King Princess this is our 8th year with it I have NOT replaced the CAT yet but one day I will have to I knew this going into this deal. We follow the instruction with the stove to a T!!! This stove is one of the best purchases we've ever made the stove does what the brochure says. I manly feed and run the stove myself 7 months a year get you one you wont be sorry.There is a reason it has King in the name its the KING of wood stoves!!! Thank You Blaze King!
Great comment
@@scottdhorn Hearthstone coined the phrase "heatlife" and Blaze King works very similar to that if that's the type of stove you have. Low heat over a long period of time. Main difference being with Blaze King is you have half a load of wood still in the firebox in the morning.
This is with out a doubt the best video I've ever seen on explaining the differences between a catalytic and a secondary air wood stove. I've never had a catalytic stove, but I sure get tired of feeding my secondary air stoves. I now have the Hearthstone. My previous stove was a LOPI. My friend nick-named this stove, "Low output, per input" and he was right. My Hearthstone takes at least an hour to heat up those soapstones so they start radiating heat. Then the fire only last about 2 hours and it's time to refuel. Unless you want the stove strictly for the way the fire looks, I'd get the catalytic stove.
Do you have one of the truhybrid soapstone models? If so, what's your take on them? They seem to have very mixed reviews on build and quality the past few years
We have one of largest jotul wood stoves and it has no trouble burning 6-8 hours on a load of wood once it's fully warmer up and has a bed of coals. It is the only hear source in our house which is almost 5000 square feet. It's an old house from the 1890s and is not well insulated.
@@briankirwan9588 I am heating a combined 2600 square feet with a blazeking Ashford, I load wood once a day in the morning and leave it be. It's a cat stove, if I want the ambiance of the fire I open my damper and bypass the cat. That's usually only done when people are over otherwise Cat engaged, damper down to a lower setting. My stoves in my basement and it heats both the basement and main floor easily. If you need to heat an absolutely huge space with a cat stove I'd go to blazekings king model thing is a beast, my friend has it for his huge farm hours and is heating around 4200 Sq feet. It actually does the heating a little too efficiently imo cause his house is really warm.
@@QuietlyContemplating I don't think it's the dryness of your wood, but maybe it's harder wood. I've lived in the Colorado Rockies and Northern Idaho, and there just isn't much hardwood to be found. Maybe in towns you see more hardwoods, but not in Nature without human help.
Earned a thumbs up on this one, this is the first video I’ve seen that explained the difference for me.
I had a secondary burn stove and thought it was catalytic. I had a single wall riser off it, and the sticker took a while to blacken and burn off. It took about 10-12 hrs on a full load and worked great. I loved seeing the flames. Almost no creosote in the chimney.
My nephew had an old Ashley (conventional)that was twice as large, took twice or more wood per load, and burned it all up in about 2-3 hours.
Now that I’ve moved, I’m looking for another and the thought of the catalytic type might work better for me in my old age. Less to tote
One time I burned some old oak that someone had in the basement for 15+ years and it was scary how hot that dry old wood got
Thanks for the feedback. It is amazing how 2 stoves with the same efficiency heat home differently.
Absolutely one of the best videos explaining the efficiency of a wood stove. You made it easy for me to decide as I am now replacing my 20 year old Regency.
Glad it was helpful!
Why are you replacing your Regency? I changed the tubes and firebrick and it performs perfectly. The chamber separator is still good. The parts are simple to replace.
I’ve been burning a hobby stove in my ice fishing hut for a few years now. No ice fishing has me wanting a wood burner in the house. Best video I’ve found talking about the difference in modern stoves. Thanks.
thanks for the information......this is the first time I understand the difference between these 2 kind of stoves....
Glad it was helpful!
Clear, concise explanation that made sense to this wood stove newbie. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
Its amazing how these wood stoves have grown. Makes my wood stove look like a backyard fire for efficiency. And it was the best stove available years ago.
My wife and I just got a house with a stove. I was researching if it was any good and apparently it is a very nice secondary air stove. This video helped me identify what type it was. This video also helped me understand that the secondary air stove is what I want for the goals that I have for a stove.
New Years Dec '97 Girlfriend and I were in a cabin in Western Massachusetts with a catalytic woodburning stove. It took a bit to get it warm enough to cet the catalyst hot enough, then it kicked in. No smoke out the chimney, serious heat in the cabin.
This has been the most helpful vid in comparing the virtues of each style. I want a backup heat source and something to run on weekends so secondary burn it is. I love the simplicity of it. Thanks!
Thanks so much, appreciate the comment.
I had a Vermont Casting catalytic stove when I bought the house. It was terrible. It was hard to use, you really had to dial it in, the catalytic went bad and the stove didn’t run properly and it was expensive.
I replaced that stove I’ve had secondary air since. Currently I’m running an Enviro insert and a Pacific Energy. Great efficiency, clean burning and easy to use. Zero complaints.
This is a great video that really breaks down the differences.
Unfortunately Vermont Castings stoves is the main reason cat stove have received a bad name in the industry. Since then they have been purchased and revamped their units. They now tend to work better then before and don't rely on cats.
There are only so many BTU's in each stick of wood. Each type of stove will release basically the same amount but the cat stove has the capability to release them slower and longer. This is good for those relatively warmer Spring and Fall days where you dont need that much heat but when its colder expect to run it hotter like the non cat stove. The catalyst will only last 10-12000 hours so if your a 24/7 burner in a cold climate expect a pricey $200-300 replacement every other year after your warranty is up.
Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about. Burn time is not total heat output. People confuse BTU's per hour (Power ) with total BTU's (Energy).
Wood type and moisture has a lot to do with burn time as well. The Jotul manual on the secondary air stoves specifically states that wood that is too dry will burn too fast in their stoves.
I have had both, I burn softwood that is not very dry, for long periods of time. Cat takes up a lot of chamber and plugged up real fast. Secondary has been much better, good long burn with little chimney cleaning.
@@D-B-Cooper It is a major mistake to burn wood that is not ideally dry. (If you do not need a lot you could staple some nearby the stove if you have the space and it will lose some water in the house (still costs some energy, that is like drying laundry inside, but at least the burning process is efficient and clean.
Soot in chimney - more cleaning and a fire hazard, could even get tricky if you ever have a fire and the insurance company has a look at your chimney.
it will likely not be good for the catalyst and it drastically reduces efficiency. The water in the wood has to dry out and that costs energy, you lose that for heating.
Plus more air pollution.
@@xyzsame4081 I live in a rain forest, the ambient humidity precludes having wood dry below 10%. I burn about 5 cords a winter and have done so for years. The only soot I develop is in the cap where the smoke hits the cold air and condenses. I now have a stove with a secondary air system, works great. Soot is a product of having a very low fire that is why new stoves no longer let you throttle it down to smolder all night. The hotter the fire the more the gasses burn off. There is a vid on yt where someone tested kiln dried, seasoned and wet wood. The resulting graft was quite interesting. The only difference was in how quickly the fire came up to maximum heat, otherwise they all produced the same amount of heat and burned for the same length of time. I was once burned out in a wildfire that also burned a thousand homes, I was insured but they never paid me a dime so am no fan of insurance companies.
The only time our Blaze King ever uses the bypass is once a year (or twice if we go on a holiday) . Then it doesn't ever get low enough temperatures to need too use the bypass. In the morning I just turn the air control up a bit, the flame immediately starts so I can see how much wood is left and often can go a couple more hours. We only add wood 3-4 times for 24 hours of comfort. My neighbour who I buy my seasoned wood from says ,You hardly use your wood stove? When I say we never turn it off he was confused because you can't see anything but moisture for several minutes after adding wood (10-14% moisture) - the rest of the time it is just heat waves. It seems like it defies physics. LOVE it! He had to come it to prove to him it was going. He couldn't believe it. NO fire! He said. Nope there doesn't need to be a fire - just let it smoulder. The difference between smoke between our stoves is like the difference between an old diesel truck and an electric car. Sadly we have to breathe his smoke. And he uses 3 times more wood than we do.
Thanks, best overview / comparison of the two types I've heard. Still don't know which way I'll go though. LOL
Thank you for the clear concise explanations. After moving from Arizona to the Ozarks 15 years ago only recently decided to put in a wood stove. Had inefficient fireplaces in the past. But it was mostly aesthetic thing anyway.
I've been using the stove a little over two weeks burning primarily Red Oak cut from standing dead trees.
It is a secondary air England wood stove but I had done no research before buying from the local hardware store. And that gentleman wasn't much help. LOL
Seems I was lucky though. In England's owner handbook they stated the fresh air intake port on the back could either draw off house air or outside air if code demanded it or if the house had a negative air pressure. So I hooked it up both ways using a tee and 2 shut off valves I can either draw outside or inside air. I have a friend who's shop stove has a fan hooked up too blow fresh air in the Firebox to assist in Rapid ignition during startups. So while I was at it I hook a nice quiet $15 computer fan up to the intake that draws off the house. "Seems to work as intended"
England's handbook also stated to latch the door in the open position which cracks it about 1 in. For about 15 minutes upon startup. That is as efficient as the fan I installed. But the fan works better reloading on the hot coals in the morning.
It helps to read the book all the way through in the beginning. I didn't do that. It has a airflow dampener which works really well but then I found out if you turn it counterclockwise it will set the valve to close off the primary air completely. It is thermostat controlled. Do how much depends on how hot it is. If you don't set it you will have nothing but Ash in the morning. but if you reload the stove before going to bed you do not only have a large coal bed but many of the logs will also be a giant glowing piece still intact. with little Flames popping up here and there about an inch.
Which is why I came here. I was curious if that was enough Flame? Or that huge bed of glowing coals was better? my questions were answered.
I'd like to add I didn't have time to season my firewood very well. I realize it will create more creosote but things are what they are. And after half an hour there rarely is any smoke exiting the stovepipe.
🤠🐂🏞️🛩️
Very informative. I've heard of catalytic stoves; they sound amazing. I've had a New Zealand built stove(Meridian) for 37 years and it is amazing as well; very efficient but probably not as efficient as a catalytic stove. My maximum burn time is about 18hrs with the air turned right down BUT it does blacken the glass at that setting so I tend to leave the air at around an eighth to a quarter open overnight; no dirty glass when I get up but plenty of coals to re-ignite a fresh load of wood. Thanks for the information.
37 years, That is THE ultimate test and you didn't have to buy replacement catalytic converters, they are pricy and can be hard to find.
I tend to favor hybrid burners that feature the best of both types of stoves like the Jøtul F 500 V3 Oslo or the Woodstock Progress Hybrid stove. They deploy both technologies described in this video and allow you to decide whether to go for a hotter, more attractive fire or a longer burning fire. The Jøtul stove has a new type of combustor that is guaranteed for 20 years and doesn't require a bypass damper for when the stove is heating up, so its first hour emissions are extremely low because it always burns in a clean mode. Catalytic stoves have very high emissions while their bypass dampers are open, and require you to pay close attention to the catalyst temperature after lighting a fire so that you know when to close the damper. If you happen to get an engrossing phone call or you fall asleep right after lighting the stove you may burn all the wood up with the damper open. Catalysts have come a long way but are still often the Achilles heels of catalytic wood stoves. When they are new and undamaged they do a great job of giving you a high efficiency burn but if they become damaged or worn out the efficiency of the stove can drop substantially.
Can one clean and fix catalyst easily?
@@haliaeetus8221 You can easily clean it, I use my shop vac to clean it up. If the cat needs servicing I would buy a new cat, install it and get the old one serviced. It should be a good long time 5~+ years before the cat is damaged. But from experience you will destroy your first cat in the first few years of operation while learning to use it. I have 3 species of wood I burn for heat, each has different settings and I don't have the luxery or space to let my wood dry / season for 2 years before I burn it. Most gets 6 months. So you will be cleaning it / servicing it. My practice is to use my shop vac to suck the ash out of the stove and then to take the shop vac to the cat. I do this every week and don't need to really worry about any other maintenance.
Thanks for the info about the Oslo 500. How do you increase the burn time other than reducing the front air inlet ? Also were you at all bother by the stove needing such thin pieces of wood ?
Also can you burn in the Oslo 500 without the catalyst I place without causing damage to the stove?
@@lrich9317 It doesn't require thin pieces of wood. Thin pieces are often used in demos because they catch on fire quickly. The front air inlet is the only control on the burn rate.
Thank you. Great explanation. I just put a deposit on a catalytic stove, but didn't really understand how it worked until now.
You can make any stove more efficient by feeding it outside air rather than having it consume your warm air which forcibly draws cold air into the house.
Not true. Cold air creates a less efficient burn. You need fresh air exchange anyway, why not burn the warm stale air and breathe fresh air.
Fine presentation. We had Vermont Casting cat stoves for 2 decades when they first came out. Except for parts replacement the 3 VC Encores were fine heaters for primary heat in Maine. When the last Encores became too costly and time to repair we tried the "NEW AND IMPROVED" Flexburn models with the same form factor as old Encores. They did not function and were dangerous since the primary air controls malfunctioned on 2 Encore Flexburns with uncontrollable fires. The dealer ( a true pro ) refunded the full costs and took the stoves back. VC corporate was AWOL, even angry. Blaze King was on the agenda but high $$$$ and it would not fit our clearances since their thermostatic control at the rear needed too much spacing. The choice for the past 5+ years has been 2 Jotul Rangelys ( no longer made) non cats for 99% primary heat ( we have no central heat or thermostat like most set at say 65 F ) with NO problems including original gaskets and air tubes. We are home often enough to load when needed for heat. JMNSHO
Definitely team catalyst here. My Dad has a Blaze King princess. I remember visiting during November a few years back. (west coast of BC) He was working 12 hour days (6AM-6PM), Mom was out of town. I stopped in to visit and beat him home by about 10 minutes. I walked in the door at 6:30 PM and was greeted to a hot house that felt like stepping off a plane in Hawaii. It was about 3°C outside, but the rain and wind were pounding like crazy. Blowing rain sideways. A real cold damp night. I just so happened to have my IR temp gun with me. It was 25°C inside the house on the wall the farthest away from the wood stove. Every room felt wonderful.
I asked him when he last put wood in there, because I couldn't fathom him putting in wood at 5AM just to go to work. He said "I put some in about 8 PM last night." I said "You've been burning this for over 22 hours?" He answered yep like I'd just asked him if 2+2 = 4. No smoke outside. No smell outside. The catalyst was in the active zone. I threw another log in and it caught fire with ease. (All his co-workers with non-catalyst stoves came home to cold houses)
He has one of those heat sink powered fans on top of the stove. I've learned that when that fan starts to spin is also when the stove crosses into the active zone. Thus if you see the fan spinning, it's time to close the bypass and let it run clean. Takes about 20 minutes. The longer the fire runs, the better the catalyst works. Because as a fire starts to smoulder and slow down near it's end cycle, the cat will see more smoke. The smoke ignites in the cat and keeps the cat active, pushing heat back down into the wood until the fire is completely out (some 30 hours later......40 hours if you have the Blaze King king model) Those long burns leave you with very little ash. He told me he took about a teaspoon of creosote out of the chimney during his annual cleaning. Wood is his only source of heat. The catalyst lasted about 8 years or so. That seems decent to me. When you get older, the ability to burn about 1/3rd as much wood as you would with a traditional stove is a nice selling point. That's a lot less stacking, carrying, buying etc.
The automatic thermostat (that you set from 1-4) is a nice feature. You set it on 4 (max) during the initial light. And then about 30 minutes later dial it down to where you want it. Usually 2, maybe 2.5..... 3 would be for nights when it's below freezing. Turning it down to 1 will prolong the fire. It's way better than constantly adjusting a manual damper all evening long. It's a real steady heat. House is comfortably warm without being too hot.
The secondary air models have their place. If you only heat on weekends or only want a few hours of burn time (let the furnace do the rest) than a secondary air is what you want. If you're renting a home out, you want a secondary burn for the simplicity. (You need to open the bypass handle on a catalyst model before you open the door to keep smoke from spilling out). Secondary will give you the dancing flames but won't do much during the last stages of the fire for efficiency. The catalyst will often give you glowing orange wood with little to no flames. Occasionally you'll see a horizontal flame along the top of the stove but no flame coming out of the wood. That's the smoke igniting in the catalyst. It's a strange thing to see even when you know why. It will do the dancing flames after an hour or so during the initial light. But they won't be as pronounced as the secondary air stoves.
The chimney is surprisingly not hot with the Blaze King. It's warm. You can touch it. But you won't burn your hand. There are lots of videos on youtube of people cutting a hole inside the chimney and holding their hand in there while the stove is running. They'll close the bypass and sure enough, the smoke goes to nothing. But why would it be hot? There is very little air going up a catalyst stove when it's active. Everything gets burnt inside the catalyst and radiated back downwards into the wood.
well said. Thanks so much for watching.
I'm old fashioned (B.C. central interior)...on occasion -50......just like a car or a body...."let it breathe".....we didn't care about WEF or local rules where I lived (B.C. is very, very ignorant liberal)......oxygen-fuel-ignition.......heat that puppy after a "safe install"....make it glow!
I have a lopi evergreen which is a secondary burn stove. I get about 10 hour burn times and will still have a nice bed of coals in the morning to start the next fire. I dont want to deal with a replacement catalyst every so often and i can make my own reburn tubes if i wanted. And seeing the floating dancing flames when I shut down the air is amazing to see
I have an old, 1990 Osburn with secondary air. I have coals after 10 hour overnight burn.
Very happy with it.
Mine has solid black metal in back for secondary air. Thick metal with air holes across the upper back of firebox.
These new ones have all these tubes that may not last as long.
Curious when they get rotted out like a BBQ but they are probably more efficient being over the whole top of fire.
Cheers
The modern tubes are a high grade stainless, they don't rot. They are very durable.
This was a very informative video. The comment section was just as informative with lots of experiential comments from people that use wood stoves to heat their homes every year.
I'd be curious of what woods to avoid burning with the catalytic model.
The secondary air wood stove, based upon similar experience with a wood burning insert, would be more flexible with what to burn, including coal in a pinch.
Thankyou for a very informative video.
But you left out a very important point regarding these two fire places that people should be aware of before making a decision on either.
Maintenance!
The secondary fire place has minimal maintenance where as the catalytic fire place has much more required maintenance that has a fair cost associated with it due to cleaning/replacing the catalytic unit that is made of quite expensive materials.
Happy to be corrected if I am not on the money here...
I think there is some merit to what you are saying to a point. It really comes down to the type of wood burnt. Well seasoned wood and barely any issues, unseasoned wood and plenty of issues for both. Depending on brand of stove secondary air stoves can be expensive to replace parts as well. Secondary air tubes and baffles often get broken and need to be replaced so both types of stoves can cost $$$ in maintenance. Hence why its not mentioned.
Honestly man, really good explanation of these things! Thanks for the video
My woodstoves are old but extremely well built. Both have thermostatic cold air inlets so the burn is fairly efficient. I also have 2 Wiseway Non-electric pellet stoves. I use all 4 stoves during the winter. One woodstove to heat my barn and one to heat my "shop." I use the pellet stoves to heat my house. If pellets become expensive I have 2 spare woodstoves stored for "kust in case."
Excellent video. I think for my case where I will be using my cabin only on weekends, the secondary air stove will work better for me. I will need the cabin to warm up quick vs keeping it warm for long periods of time. However my buddy will be living in his cabin all the time and he has a Blaze King which will be going all day, every day in the winter time and that one is a lot better suited to him.
had both types and like the secondary air stove MUCH BETTER. No waiting for the combustor to heat up. The best way to tell if a stove is burning efficiently is to see what is coming out of the chimney. If you see smoke (unburned gasses) it is not efficient. If you see shimmering wavy exhaust with no smoke you are burning most efficiently. The secondary air stove is better in that regard in my 45 years burning experience. No smoke is most efficient (and no creosote).
I moved into a house with a Lennox County Secondary Air stove. It has primary air control but can't seen to find a secondary air control and assume it is "fixed" with entry at the lower portion of the firebox between panels of the side walls. Does that sound correct? I do get alot of smoke with starting or reloading the fire, after a while (hour) seems to burn without must less or no smoke.
@@neillee3793 there is no secondary air control.
@@neillee3793 It takes practice, trial and error, to reduce the smoke output when reloading. We learned not to wait too long, STT below say ~400, and the reload ignites quickly with minimum smoke. Also, fully opening the primary air control before reload and opening door. Slowly closing air control depending on how the reload burn takes off. Again, its a ymmv trial and error depending on stove, wood, size of reload, draft...
There definitely won't be any smoke coming out of a catalytic unit if it's in catalytic mode (or if it's burning hot in non-catalytic mode, in my experience). I haven't found the heating up time to be an issue.
And you are burning through wood like you live in a forest.
a few things you didn't mention. are the wood stoves pickey on the types of wood you can burn, such as pine? lot and lots of pine here in Michigan. and you have to replace that catalyst every year? I wanted something that is bullet proof with no needing of parts just in case the shit hits the fan and you can't get parts.
Sorry, I missed the part where you explain how the catalytic burners work. You did explain the secondary burner principle, but...the catalytic?
Thanks
I have another video explaining that. ua-cam.com/video/oEUlcKEYAag/v-deo.html
Could you comment about flu gas temperature and creosote build-up?
Having used all types of wood stoves I would say I prefer the reburn. Although, the catalytic stove is an old Vermont Casting and they don't have the best reputation. Whatever stove you buy, get one with the lowest possibility of an air leak. i.e. no ash dump, few gaskets. That Vermont Casting has an ash dump and six different gaskets of varying sizes. After the last time I took it apart and cleaned it up it feels like it burns through the wood faster so it must have an air leak somewhere.
Thanks ,that was very informative now I know the difference. We have a Osburn 1100 model in our cabin and harvest alder hemlock and cedar from the property, my spouse Vickie always likes to see the flames so yes we burn a lot of wood.Cheers from Bowen Island ,BC Canada.
I have a blazeking princess 32. At 1st I didn't like it and was disappointed.. but learned I wasn't burning "truly seasoned wood" once I ordered kiln-dried wood and my own seasoned firewood mixed. Blazeking. IMO are by far superior compared to my napolen wood stove. Yes. It does take some patience but once you get the operating system down 6 pieces of wood burns/heats my whole 1600 sqft home nicely for a good 12/14 hrs on a high. To each and they're own. I personally prefer longer burns with more consistent heat output not worrying about loading up the fire box every 4/6 hours especially at night.
When we replaced our old Fisher stove about 30 years ago, cat stoves were really being pushed. What I learned by asking lots of questions was this: Is there a warranty on the catalyst--and for how long? (its perfectly possible to "poison" one). What's the catalytic efficiency at the end of the catalyst's life, compared to what it is at the start? Should your company go out of business or be sold, how long will replacement catalytic cartridges be available? Can I get a replacement cartridge, say, for my Oregon Woodstove (long defunct)? One thing that was a real stopper for a couple of candidates was "You show a left-hand hinge model. but we need a right-hand hinge one. Can you sell me one?" You would be amazed at the number of "no" responses we got on that one.
After all the research, we wound up with the secondary burner. It cost more than the catalytic models, but it still works just fine. Heating efficiency isn't a big thing, as we own our own woodland and usually have far too much downed wood to be able to burn it all.
Amazing. Thank you very much. Bought the wrong stove. I am a Queenslander now living western NSW Australia. Winter is only short. However, wood is extremely expensive to buy. Oh well. I put my ceiling fan on reverse. That helps. Small cottage. It is warmer. However, not economical. $1,050.00 Australian dollars so far for wood? Down under Australia is not at all a cheap country to live in. I will be leaving country life too hard, expensive and boring. I live near Wyangla Dam. Closest town Cowra. WWll history here. Thank you very much. Great video. Very well explained. Fire box was $1,500.00 and too have it installed $900.00. All Australian dollars.
We bought a Princess 32 and installed it on Valentine's Day. The fire has never gone out, and the house stays at 70 deg. Load it a night, top-up in the morning, good for the day. The best part is that we're burning HALF the wood we were burning before. What a great stove for a home.
Can I ask what the outside temperature was when it kept the house at 70deg?
@@Journey_Around These are the questions that we need to ask, but shouldn't have to.
Do live in Nunavut or NJ? Is your home 5000 sq ft. or 800 sq ft.? We need context, or the post is not helpful.
How long before the exchanger has to be changed
Great video. I didn't know catalytic stoves could give you burn times of 30 hours. That's crazy. Still, I think I prefer non-catalytic stoves. I have a Pacific Energy Super LE (non catalytic) and I'm pretty satisfied with the 6-7 hours burn time. This stove is very efficient and well built.
The only thing I don't like about these secondary air EPA stoves is that they prevent you from closing air intake completely. I have a straight and tall chimney and that gives me a very strong draft. Sometimes when the temperature outside is cold the fire becomes uncontrollable even with air intake shut all the way down. Second combustion goes nuclear and the only thing I can do when it happens is look at my fire hoping it calms down. Not cool.
Completely opposite with cat stoves. BK uses about 70% less air and are not prone to over draft issues as secondary stoves are.
Each has its place and I am glad you love your PE.... just don't overfire the stainless baffle in the top.
@@tinmaninc2023 Thanks for the heads up. The only solution I found to prevent overfiring is to put less wood during reloads... which is ok but not ideal. My PE dealer told me he is not authorized to install a key damper on my stove pipe due to some construction regulations in my province.
@@podcastnusakan
I am looking forward to getting the alderlea 6t soon. So you recommend getting the damper on the stove pipe ?
@@lrich9317Well I contacted PE about my excessive draft situation and they responded that in my case a key damper is probably be the best solution to my problem. Almost everyone on the hearth forums also suggests I install a key damper. So I will install one and see if it makes a diffence this winter. I'll try to think about coming back here and report my results!
Hey great review I have the Blaze King Princess and I love it. I burn a mixture of hard and soft wood with no problem and I get a good 11-12 burn time with stove turned up 1/4 or so and where I live there are lots of windy days. This is a great thing to know when a storm has gusts up to 100km hr the Blaze King burns the same no out of control fires and burn time stays almost exactly the same and another note. Very very low soot build up in the chimney which eliminates chimney fires. I had two cup fulls of ash in a full season of burning which is 4-5 months with really dry fire wood. Secondary stoves are good too but lighting my fire once every few weeks and getting a long burn time is great for a home owner. God bless
Run your air intake directly from the outside into the back top of an old fridge and out through the bottom to the stove. This is great in the winter time because the fridge will be ice cold. No electric. And the plus is by taking outside air into the stove directly, the heat will go out any air gaps, instead of the other way around. I've done this myself years ago. The pipes can get frosty, but that's a good thing. Because can put it to good use if you stop and think about it.
PS. Don't need any bigger than 2 inch pipe, plenty of air with that.
@@cynthiaayers7696 Brilliant! I had thought about outside combustion air, but not about using it for another purpose first.
I have the secondary air stove and love it. Long burn times. Only time I get smoke out of it is when I load it and that maybe for 10 minutes. MUST have seasoned wood for efficiency and for long burn times 9 to 10 hours. I lay my logs left to right for long burn times. To get quick heat I place my logs front to back. Heats a 1,500 sq foot home. It was 80 degrees when I woke this morning and I loaded it up 8 hrs before hand. I open the door in the morning so it can burn down and I can remove some ash, then after a couple of hours I will load it up again for a long burn. It was 28 degrees over night nice and comfortable in here. I have a unit on my stove pipe with a thermostatic fan to capture heat going up the 10 ft tall chimney. I removed the top sheet metal ( for an optional factor fan unit) to make for a larger cooking area. Heat feels better and food taste better. I am sure that's all in my mind but it does to me. Great video!
I'm pleasantly surprised with my Drolet. I basically do what you do. I can usually get a good 10-12hrs burn time with a good bed of coals for relighting in the morning. I don't sleep for more then 4-5 hrs anyway but have let the stove run its course to compare it to manufacturers specs. And as far as creosote build up I get maybe a 1 cup every 6 months out of my chimney....
@@jedidiah5131 That is my manufactured brand also. I was old school and was not quite sure about the new regulated stoves. We had a damper on the chimney and on the door of our old school.. if you stayed with it and had good door gaskets you could burn efficiently. I am impressed with my stove now and recommend.
@nobleroofinggeneralcontrac7961 and @jedidiah5131 I spent quality time this weekend researching wood stoves and have decided on the Drolet Nano, I have a really small place. Glad to see positive reviews of them. Any tips and tricks are greatly appreciated.
A great explanation, thank you. Which do you recommend for a fairly mild climate (Southern California, 4000 elevation, winters down to 25ish at the coldest, 1900 sqft house with 20 foot vaulted ceiling in the stove room). The longer burn of a catalyst is appealing. Is it suitable for those shoulder seasons where you might not want a ton of heat during the day, but do at night and in the morning? Does such a situation increase creosote creation? Thanks!
I do mind getting up at 4am to reload but I like the quick starts and hotter fires and flames. I get wood dropped off for free so not worried about how much I use.
I didn't hear you mention one of the BEST features of the Blaze Kings. The automatic air control !!!! That works like a thermostat for a furnace and automatically adjusts the air supply damper to maintain constant temperatures throughout the burn cycle. This one feature of the Blaze Kings that I would never give up and of course it helps that they are the longest burning wood stoves available. I have a Princess in my shop and a King Ultra in my house. I bought both of them new and still use them every burning season. The Princess is about 20 years old and the Ultra is 14 years old and both still work great.
What size if of shop u heat and to what temp ? I’m trying to decide if it’s big enough for a 36x50x16 in Manitoba ca
Have you ever had to change out the catalytic combusters?
My shop is 32 x 40 x11 and the princess is OK if I keep it going. I only have R20 insulation in the ceiling. I would suggest getting the Blaze King "King" for the shop if it is reasonably well insulated. I have a King in the house and it heats the whole house, up and down until it gets really cold (-30C) then I have to add some electric help. House is about 1300 square ft up and same down.@@henryhenry5897
@@louiswestfall9622 The one in the shop was changed out when we moved here 14 years ago and its still in use today. The one in the house was changed out twice. The first time because my moron electrician thought it would be a good idea to throw some plastic into the stove while it was burning. Ruined the combuster and he paid for the replacement . The second time was about 7 years ago because I was having draught problems and thought the combuster wasn't working properly. Turned out it was not a combuster issue.
@@HillBilly-wc4dl thanks for reply yes I’ll prob insulated it with 4“ closed cell sprayfoam about r25 wich is really outperforming any r40-50 fiber so I’d call it very well insulated ....
Could you discuss what the burn rate of the catalytic stove turned up to flat out or did I miss that bit. Do they generate the same heat per hour when turned up to max. Thank you.
For me the ambiance of flames 🔥 is important. The long slow burn I doubt would give a pleasing glow and offer that much desired effect. I could see it being useful for overnight heat, we used to bank up our open coal fire and turn off the draft so it baked the coal and the crust formed kept the house toasty warm then in the morning break the crust and away it would go. Thanks for explaining the two.
I miss my blaze king, those stoves are incredible.
What happened to it?
@@Keiferdeifer I sold it with the house
Great explanation thx. And yes, the double wall stainless chimney in Calif is $100/foot.
I wonder if that Catalyst makes the air outside smell like a Flatulant? Back in the 80s, I built a stove from a piece of 18" pipe. Had a top Horizontal 6" exhaust, a large baffle forcing the exhaust to go around the ends before exiting into the Flue, (which was 20 feet tall). Since the Stove was ROUND, there was no need for Fire Brick to keep the corners from splitting open, and it made a LOT of heat. Round stoves make the fire fall into itself, so burns are much more complete. After 5 YEARS, I swept my flue pipe, to get 1/8 cup of tan dust. NONE of these new square stoves would do that. But thanks for the good info. Nice video.
Very interesting comment!
I built a small 16” long stove out of oilfield pipe. 3/8” thick I believe and about 14” wide pipe.
Anyway with that stove I never ran a brush through the chimney in 4 years of burning half dry and often green wood ( to gain burn times).
Creosote would collect in the top of my chimney cap but that’s it.
Then I moved into a house and had a secondary air style stove. One of the best ( Super 27). Now I clean my chimney once a month and I use seasoned wood on top of that.
I run it very hot often but it still stays pretty dirty in the pipe.
I wonder if the round stove vs my square style stove plays a roll.
Thanks, this is the best explanation on this subject I have seen.
Thanks, much appreciated
I didn't even know catalytic stoves were a thing! Thanks Man!
Since about 1989.
Me either and i heat soley with wood. My stove is just inexpensive wood burning stove that was here when I bought the place, looking to upgrade. I cut and split my own wood.
What happens when you can go longer by a replacement catalyst for the stove? How long do these catalyst last? Does a catalyst really burn that long or is it just a bunch of bull specs? I can't imagine anything burning 30 hrs or even 20 for that matter on one load of wood. Lower for longer periods of time is exactly what I need but in concerned about replacing the catalyst etc. Can a catalyst replacement be made easily?
This is extremely helpful. It would be nice to know what the price difference is between these two stoves I know they would vary from state to state but it would be nice to have a general idea. And do these stoves come in smaller models. You mentioned this heats a 2500 square-foot home which would be too large for what I’m looking for.
Yes they come in smaller models and the prices are close depending on the brand you choose.
How long does the catalytic converter last and how much are they to replace?
i was wondering the same o r can they be cleaned
I have a BK King. Myself and two friends in CT bought ours all at the same time back in 2009 ($1925 each, don't know what they cost now, but I'm sure they're worth every penny). Anyway, we all remove and clean the cat at least once a year. All of us use the stoves all winter long, and we are all still using the original cat! I do have a spare cat which I bought with the stove, but haven't installed it. Awesome stoves!
@@ssoffshore5111 You can't even get them anywhere because of the supply chain . I tried ENGLAND STOVES BECAUSE THEY ARE MADE IN MONROE VIRGINIA . NONE
@@ssoffshore5111 So roughly, how much does a catalyst spare part cost then?
Nice improvements. My Avalon secondary burn stove can get smoky at low damper setting.
What about an option for outdoor air connection for the fire box? That seems like a great idea.
They all have some sort of outside air adapter either as a option or included with stove.
My Drolet HT2000 also has an airwash system to help keep the glass a little cleaner or is it all part and parcel with the secondary air....And thanks for the explanation/video.
What happened to us when we had a catalytic stove was our chimney ran so cold as so much of the heat was removed by the stove that we got much water from the wood running down the chimney that made a mess. Stove worked too well that we just could not keep enough heat in the chimney despite burning dry seasoned hard wood.
Me too. Sucks.
I had a similar problem. I replaced the old chimney with a really well insulated stainless steel one. Problem solved, no condensation.
@@vinquinn We had a new triple wall stainless steel chimney too but the moisture came from the wood even tho it was 2 year old hard wood stored inside
@@colleenthomas353 Condensation occurs when the flue gases are not hot enough to heat the chimney. Maybe the stove or the catalytic is clogged up inside somewhere and is not running hot enough. Maybe your house is too airtight and the stove is not drawing properly. Hard to say, you should check things out one at a time.
@@vinquinn Thanks- the catalytic converter was new as was the stove and it ran hot like the dealer and owners manual said it should-worked so well that not enough heat made it into the chimney. The house was an older house on a lake not that air tight. Don't get me wrong the stove heated the house great and the wood lasted much longer than the old box stove but the dealer and us could not stop the moisture problem. We ended up selling the house so I don't know how the new owners made out.
Great video. Very informative! Where does the secondary air generally pull from? Specifically asking for our Jotul Oslo F500 secondary air stove. It’s hard to tell where the pipes draw from.
How clean do the flues compare on the two? We have a secondary air burning Englander and love it. Flue is completely clean and do not need to chimney sweep. So your left stove burns for 10 hours while the catalytic one goes for 30. Are those 30 hours of smoldering wood? It would seem that way but does the catalyst last through a typical winter? Seems like it would clog up quickly with slow burning wood. We get a good blaze going in the evening then shut the draught down. Still toasty in the morning and often coals can be stirred up to ignite a new fire (depends how much wood was stoked in there the night before). Tip: we strip bark (that is loose on properly seasoned hardwood) to start a new fire with coals. If ashes are cold, we use a parrafin/sawdust block below the bark and a bit of kindling with split wood on top. I vote for secondary air combustion, especially Englander, an amazing stove and shame I heard they went bankrupt.
EXCELLENT VIDEO! I had no idea! Very informative! Many thanks. Cheers from northern Ontario, Canada!
There are also Hybrid stoves that take advantage of both technologies. Woodstock Soapstone based in Lebanon NH is a well know producer of those. There may be others as well, I'm just not sure.
I have a catalytic wood stove, and the biggest downside is the delay in getting heat when you start them cold. It is like preheating an oven. First you establish the fire, then you run the stove with the bypass damper open for at least 20 minutes to get the stove and the catalyst hot. Then you shut the bypass damper and start getting meaningful heat out of the thing. For a cold cabin that is maybe 30 degrees inside, that is a long time to be cold. But once you get past that slow start up, they work great, as long as you are burning seasoned, dry wood.
Yeah that is a downside with cabins. In cases like that I generally recommend a secondary air stove to my customers who come in the showroom. Cat stoves work best burned every day.
Thanks, very informative! I wasn't aware that catalytic wood stoves even existed! They might be banned by my countrys legislations. I have had a secondary air stove for 15 years now (Jøtul F350) and get through 9000 liters of fuel every season.
But what does the catalyst actually do with the gases coming from the burning (smoldering) wood)?? By what mechanism does it produce heat i.e. make the oven more efficient? And those small tubes in the catalyst - don't they get clogged with soot pretty quickly?
The catalyst, once it is up to its operating temp, actually 'reacts' with the smoke. It's actually a chemical reaction with the smoke, same as the way the catalytic converter in your car reacts with your car's exhaust. This reaction creates primarily two things: heat and water vapour, with only minor impurities (emissions) remaining.
No, there should be no soot build up in a secondary air tube. No exhaust goes through these tubes, just fresh air. (They are the conduit for the stove's secondary air supply.) They can degrade and burn through in time though and would then need to be replaced. (Just like the burn tubes in a BBQ.)
Cheers!
We own a blaze king sirocco , and we have owned many different types through our 30 years of heating with wood and we have owned a secondary air stove as well , and as far we are concerned there is nothing more efficient than a catalyst wood stove , for heating with the least amount of wood it is the way to go . We heat from October to May and on our coldest season we only used 6 face cords of wood .
how large and how well insulated is your home. I will likely be ordering one of these stoves next week. I live in a well insulated 1,200 sq. bottom floor, 600 sq. top floor home.
@@elkhunter3382 Our house is 1100 sq/ft on one floor and has R27 in the walls and R60 in the ceiling .
Would you tell me what is the diameter of the holes and how many that are on the top secondary air burn on left ??? The tubes look like 3/4 inch diameter, am I correct on that fact ??
The catalyst blaze king, how long does the catalytic element last as you stated by type Sir ???
My last question is the safety of the glass door breaking or exploding causing a house fire ???
Would you give me a quote on each stove and shipping cost to eastern Pennsylvania Sir. Do these stoves come in larger sizes ???
Thanks a bunch and have a great day too. Look forward to do business with you fella. Peace vf
I had a catalytic stove at one time. The catalyst grid was constantly getting fouled with fly ash. Performance declined rapidly and It needed cleaned every few days. It also failed to work entirely after a few weeks and was expensive to replace. I now have a "secondary air" stove that I find entirely satisfactory.
That is the main reason why I will NEVER buy a woodstove with a catolithic convertor. Waste of money if you ask me. Not to mention the added cost on the stove.
Where does the air come into the stove in the first place. Is it from inside the house or from a direct line to outside with a manual air control valve. Bc you don't show any of that. And that can make all the difference in heating.
U can get fresh air intakes for them.
I live in South Florida and only have to turn on the resistive heat in my central AC about 2 nights a year but an fascinated by these wood burners on YT.
Have the secondary air stove, can get four good hours with oak, use a squirrel cage fan for air movement around stove, works great in the basement, actually heats the whole house with it.
The stove is 8 years old and has paid for itself many times over.
Love how the heat warms everything up in the house, especially the floor in the bathroom, my toes are very cold sensitive 😊
Nicely informative video. But 5 sec of silence on a static card at the front had me wondering if it was playing. Need either motion or audio or both, right up front.
How many btu/hr are extracted from a load of wood. Did the 30 hour burn produce only on third of the heat per hour to make the wood last that long?
Really great video. I am looking to buy a wood stove or backup heat. Learned a ton from your video. Thank you So MUCH for making it ! ! !
Can you cook on top of both? I have old cast iron type, and has 2 plates I can lift off and put frying pan with fire ring on it and do a nice breakfast. It has top air inlet for when lifting the pan or cover off, so it doesn't smoke out the holes during that transition. For something like this winter in Texas, when power also went out, probably the stove that gives more light would be preferable, although for that I use a dual filament propane coleman lantern hanging on a chain from ceiling hook.
Yes you can!
@@tinmaninc2023 Hooray!
what is the estimated lifetime of the catalytic unit and what is the average replacement cost? I have a secondary air stove and there is practically no parts to wear out/replace so I am curious about the extra cost. The extra long burn time at night has me interested.
I can't really speak for other brands then Blaze King as that's what we sell. There are replacements parts needed for all stoves including secondary air as baffles, air tubes, and shields are often replaced. Some people can go 20 years with replacing those parts while other only get a year or two. This is really no different then Cat stoves like Blaze King. It really depends on how you look after it and how you follow the manufacturers instructions. BK cats have a 10 year warranty on the original cat that comes with the stove. Again some customers go beyond that while others only get a year or two. The question for you is " Are you able to follow manufacturers instructions to preserve the life of your stove while being rewarded with less wood consumption and even heat output?"
@@tinmaninc2023 Thank you for the info. I am able to follow instructions, just was curious about lifetime of the cat unit and cost. I guess i can google the cost. Lifetime should be in line with the warranty. Manufacturer goal is to NOT replace anything under warranty. I do wonder on the cat stove, how tolerant they are to wood that may be slightly green. I know my sec air stove smolders at times and I just open the air and let it burn up. I try to make sure it is seasoned well but occasionally get some small batches that aren't quite dry.
@@321kliddle Costs of cats are around $300 and have a manufacturers warranty up to 10 years.
@@tinmaninc2023 Thanks!
Great video. Thank you. We bought a house with a Blaze King and I had no idea that the dampener was to be open until the gauge read Active. Can I burn Dura Flame type logs just for a quick fire or will they ruin the catalytic converter. Thank you
I've been burning wood for over 40 years. We use a Quadra Fire 3300 to heat our whole house. From what i have heard and read, it is not recommended to use hyped up fake logs with a catalyst stove, due to the chemicals used to keep the logs burning. It may contaminate the coating on the wafer.
Could you provide temperature range differences between the two? That would be helpful. Thanks!
Which temp are you referring too? Stove temp or exhaust temp?
@@tinmaninc2023 Both would be nice. Thanks!
@@wesbaumguardner8829 Secondary Air stoves tend to have hotter flue gas temps as they can go from 400 to 1000 degrees. Cat stoves tend to have lower flue gas temps generally less then 400 degrees.... its not abnormal to see temps drop as low as 100 degrees.
On the surface there isn't much difference as both max out my Flir infrared camera. By feel it appears secondary air stoves get hotter on the surface which makes sense as they have more air entering the firebox.
@@tinmaninc2023 I sincerely appreciate the information. Kind regards!
@@wesbaumguardner8829 my pleasure
wondering if it would be possible to design a cat stove with secondary air pipes to ignite that soot and smoke allowing for a cleaner burn. The cleaner hotter air would then pass through the cat and do the same job as it already does.
Edit: just learned about hybrid stoves. I thought i was being smart.
Is a Blaze King 40 a good choice for a Log Cabin with Vaulted ceiling? About 3200 sq ft with the loft- big great room with bedrooms on the wings
I have a 2021 lopi liberty, throws great heat easy to light with the green start, but I'm constantly filling it, last year I burned 12 face cord, but this year i'm already at 10 face cord and we havent hit the dead of winter yet. I am gone from 530 am till 6pm everyday for work, and gone most weekends, and when I come home, my house is colder than I want, so my question is would a princess help me out with my issues? Thanks
I think so. We have customers with the PE32 and they fill it up every 12 hours.
Thank you. We have a 12-14 year old
QuadraFire 7100. This is a secondary air unit. I have absolutely perfect cut and cured firewood. It’s kept in a shed and dry with good airflow. I also burn Enviro Brick fire logs. These fire logs are 100% hard wood sawdust compressed under 25 tons of pressure. This compression forms a hardwood brick
Anyway the firewood will burn about 5-6 hour and put off heat for an additional 3-4 hours. The Enviro bricks stacked with about 1” space staggered two packages and we get a 6-7 hour burn with additional heat of 3-4 hours. With both kind of fuel, the peak heat at is from about 30 min after lighting and maintained peak heat for about 4 hours then it begins a gradual decline.
The quadrafire 7100 is a discontinued model. It has some issues, we have owned two of them over the years in different homes. The issues we have had is: (1) glass always smokes up as the fire begins to cool. (2) the auto air controller needs to be serviced or replaced every 4-5 years. (3) the door handles melt if left in the open position (4) the door seals and glass seals go bad every 2 years.
We are getting ready to remodel. Im thinking we will go with a stove this time. We use the QuadraFire as primary heat once temps are below 40F.
I need stove that will heat about 3000 Sq ft.
There are stoves out there but it depends on what you are looking to accomplish. The room with the stove will get extremely hot and it that okay then a secondary air stove will work fine like a Osburn 3500, Quadra-fire 5700, Pacific Energy Summit, etc. Max burn time 12 hours.... going with a cat stove you could look at the Blaze King model King 40 or Regency F5200. Both of these require an 8" chimney while the secondary air stoves require 6".
What about the difference between convection stoves and radiating stoves?
Appreciate the good explanation & description & comparison.
I have a jotul 600 "secondary air" stove. It easily maintains a fire overnight. I also have unlimited quantities of various types of oak firewood. This allows me to heat my house with a 28 ft vaulted ceiling with 24 ft of vertical single wall pipe.
Do you know why they stopped making the jotul 600 ? I couldn't find one anywhere! I'm stuck with buying the 500 in October 2023
1st thanks for the good information.
That said, I have an older inefficient stove that likes getting fed on a regular basis.
But I get the heat I'm looking for.
The stove is in the basement so warm floors is great.
Burn time is nice but heat is the reason the stove is going.
My question is , will the BK give me the heat OR mainly prolong burn time?
S.
BK stoves have a more constant heat.....your current stove has more highs and lows like peaks and valleys so your basement warms and cools with every load of wood added. BK stoves don't have to produce the same kind of heat because they don't cool down and are more easily controlled with their built in thermostat. Hope that makes sense.
@@tinmaninc2023 thanks TM
@@tinmaninc2023 what is the % difference with these 2 stoves in a equal size home with the bk at a constant heat, , I have a two story 22 x 65. I live in Mn. I’m guess what I’m asking is the bk going to keep it warm enough so I don’t have to have my Lp kick in on, I’m a painter (artist) I have ok installation. Thank you in advance🍂
Sure wish I had watched this video before getting my first wood stove! Not because I regret the secondary wood stove it did buy because by chance it is the type I do want! But at least I would have understood what the differences where haha. Thank you!
We were thinking of putting a wood stove in the basement. Unfinished basement. We have central heat n air. Basement is cool n a little humid. Now I’m not sure which one to get. Pros and cons for both. Decisions
Great Video.
What about the Catalyst? How often do they need to be changed and how expensive are they?
For some this a lifetime component for others its something they will get a few years out of. It really depends on what is burned in the stove. Replacement is somewhere around $300.
@@tinmaninc2023 thanks for that. Much appreciated.
How often do you have to clean out the ash? Can you send me a video of that? To me it sounds like the catalytic one would be best for me. Thanks for the info. I live in Baltimore Maryland where we get cold temperatures this time of year. My gas and electric bill is pretty high right now.
Ash disposal depends on the wood type and moisture content. Generally you clean out the ash when the amount of wood you can normal fit in there lessens.
Can you burn whatever wood you have in your area with the catalytic stove, such as pine? What about adding a few pieces of coal into the wood as well?
Yes any wood is fine as long as its seasoned. WIth coal I would say no as the manufacturers to my knowledge do not test these stoves for coal. If they did it would be listed which I have never come across in the manuals.
Can you cook or put pots on top of this
Awesome video. Still rocking an old Dutchwest 2462. I think it needs a new cat though. What box temperature should a cat stove on low?
I have no idea what temps are inside the firebox. I have measured low numbers coming out of the flue pipe in low 100's. Thats also dependent on the wood type, moisture content, etc.
@@tinmaninc2023Thank you!
Hi. Great video. Suppose one burns seasoned wood only and properly uses the stove per instruction, does the fire window still get dirtier faster with a catalytic stove therefore having to clean it more frequently?
Great question, yes and no.... cat stoves get dirtier glass when burning on low but because of the high temps of the cat it cleans off the glass very well.
Great video, thanks for posting!
I've got a Princess insert and couldn't be happier with it!
i have an insert and don't like that I need a blower use it. 2/3 of the radiating surface buried in the fireplace and I can't cook on it
@@safffff1000, I never use the blower that came with our stove. The radiant heat it produces is more than enough to heat our home. When it's 30 degrees or less we will sit an Eco Fan heat powered fan on it to just stir the air.
But, ours is a Blaze King, which is amazing. Not sure what you're using.
Can either of these technologies be used in portable camping stoves? If not, then why not?
That's a great question. I guess the real reason we don't see that is due to certification. Camp stoves don't really have to be certified or need to be EPA friendly. The other issue I can see with it is seasoned wood, its pretty much the only thing you can get to work in energy efficient stoves. So if your chopping it down and burning it the same day these types of stoves will not work well.
@@tinmaninc2023 Most of the features of high efficiency clean burning wood stoves that make them good at their jobs - bypasses, catalysts, heavy steel or cast iron to retain and radiate heat for many hours - don't lend themselves to portability.
I have a 12 x 16 cabin and want a catalytic stove. What is the smallest one available?