Aeromine Rooftop Wind. Static. Silent. 50% more power than Solar PV. What's not to like?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 3 гру 2022
- Rooftop wind power has been a goal for micro power generators around the world for many years now. There’s no shortage of design ideas, but now there’s a new kid on the block that has no visible moving parts, makes no noise, and generates 50% more power than standard solar PV panels. So how do they do that?
Aeromine Website
www.aerominetechnologies.com/
Help support this channels independence at
/ justhaveathink
Or with a donation via Paypal by clicking here
www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...
You can also help keep my brain ticking over during the long hours of research and editing via the nice folks at BuyMeACoffee.com
www.buymeacoffee.com/justhave...
Video Transcripts available at our website
www.justhaveathink.com
Interested in mastering and remembering the concepts that I present in my videos? Check out the FREE Dive Deeper mini-courses offered by the Center for Behavior and Climate. These mini-courses teach the main concepts in select JHAT videos and go beyond to help you learn additional scientific or conservation concepts. The courses are great for teachers to use or for individual learning.climatechange.behaviordevelop...
Check out other UA-cam Climate Communicators
zentouro:
/ zentouro
Climate Adam:
/ climateadam
Kurtis Baute:
/ scopeofscience
Levi Hildebrand:
/ the100lh
Simon Clark:
/ simonoxfphys
Sarah Karvner:
/ @sarahkarver
Rollie Williams / ClimateTown: / @climatetown
Jack Harries:
/ jacksgap
Beckisphere: / @beckisphere
Our Changing Climate :
/ @ourchangingclimate
Engineering With Rosie
/ engineeringwithrosie
Ella Gilbert
/ drgilbzhelp support this channels independence at
/ justhaveathink
Planet Proof
/ @planetproofofficial - Наука та технологія
I did this 30 years ago in an apartment building in Poland. We had a basement under the building where there was access to the bottom of the exhaust air ducts. When you opened the little door there was a constant strong draft of air going from the bottom to the top of the building. I had a small DC motor which I used as a generator. I have installed a small plastic propeller and connected the wires to the 6-volt light bulb that came from the flashlight. Worked like a charm....it was a fun project. Glad to see the same concept on a larger scale👍
I've wondered for years if the air hot air coming out of my Florida attic could power a generator.
@@ShortBusScotty Turbine for the air-flow, Stirling engine for the heat-exchange.
It's possible to do, but it would give very little energy of course. Still, can be a fun project, combine it with a low voltage use like LED lighting and it's even practical.
There's even people that placed generators on their rain-pipes to charge phone batteries with some success. You can probably find the video for that on youtube if you're curious.
Poland 30 years ago with a light globe at night? There is a movie in that.
I like your innovative spirit.
@@ShortBusScotty Short answer, very little.
The kinetic energy flux in a streamtube of air is given by 1/2 x density x velocity^3. If we assume that the capture area is 1m^2 and the generation efficiency is 40% then we can conclude that to generate 5kW this turbine requires air speeds approaching 65mph. That's a violent storm (force 11) on the Beaufort scale. Under more normal conditions I would expect the output to be a few hundred watts at most. I'm sorry to say that, yet again, we're being supplied with extremely misleading performance figures.
fairly normal wind in Iceland
Not misleading, but you will have to look at the graph for your average windspeed, which usually is a lot lower. Now, sticking wind turbines on roofs is usually a waste of money. Usually meaning in 95% of cases I studied. The other 5 are inconclusive.
Pr your wind speed assumptions are incorrect
Does this consider the Venturi effect?
@sammason2300 Yep. This is a common theme with environmentalism. By getting governments involved you (temporarily) insulate people from the costs of expensive 'renewable' power.
Excluding nuclear, coal is the cheapest source of energy out there. Since the price of energy directly affects peoples quality of life, by banning fossil fuels and regulating nuclear out of existence, politicians are making peoples quality of life worse.
I can see this getting nicely incorporated into a building design if brought to the architect early in the process.
I can also imagine a simple mechanism that turns into the wind being added over time.
and combine it with hvac as well
You would have to turn the building into the wind too!
Add A.I technology to this and the wind generators can talk/communicate with each other and get maximum winder power bu adjusting positions throughout the day..also they look ugly add led lighting make it sexy and use as source of advertisement they can light up and display images/work synchronicity and produce opportunity for corporate branding..Great idea these additions will make it sell to public and companies..remember you saw it here first 24/02/2023...message me for ideas im an independent designer/creative
@@clarkkent52 You do NOT need AI to communicate, and they do not affect each other anyway, so pointless. They depend on building direction, not vane direction for enhancing flow, so nothing you can adjust. You do not seem to understand how these work, but that is not surprising, given your poor grammar and punctuation. Can I suggest a career more suited to your talents? Someone is sure to be kind enough to point out which end of a brush you hold...
@@Tensquaremetreworkshop Are you a bumptious prat in real life as well? Do you find people don't warm to you? Do you find it hard to make friends?
I'm glad this video popped up on my recommendations, I've seen bits and bobs about these new generators but never really looked into them.
Your video explained very clearly how they work without all the technical jargon, looks like these could be great to supplement solar power to give decent consistent power.
Thanks for the information.
Add A.I technology to this and the wind generators can talk/communicate with each other and get maximum winder power bu adjusting positions throughout the day..also they look ugly add led lighting make it sexy and use as source of advertisement they can light up and display images/work synchronicity and produce opportunity for corporate branding..Great idea these additions will make it sell to public and companies..remember you saw it here first 24/02/2023...message me for ideas im an independent designer/creative
Several points:
1) The fan blade is a moving part.
2) Looks like it will not kill birds
3) It is a good canadate for onshore wind.
4) Rather than rooftop addons, integrate it into the building structure.
5) A great alternative to NIMBYism.
i read elsewhere the fan element can be placed inside the building.
@@farnarkleboy
6:11 "...because they have no moving parts..."
Very good Chris. I did say No VISIBLE moving parts. The prop will be covered with a facia plate and grille.
@@JustHaveaThink Thank you - my mistake. Before I moved over to the Gulf side (Nature Coast - Not Ft. Myers), I lived on the Atlantic side. There is almost a constant strong onshore wind. There are miles of coastal roads. Imagine hundreds of nondescript VAWMs along the way and even on all of those concrete condos.
@@JustHaveaThink ua-cam.com/video/VnSZ0MHIcvs/v-deo.html Actually at this point you state they have no moving parts without stating visible.
More than anything I feel we should come up with multiple integrated methods of mass producing power, strength in diversity so to speak. If one method fails the others are still there. Like some kind of synergistic co-op. Sorry if that sounds weird.
*Look up Ziroth, he did a great video on this same technology*
*As well as great videos in general*
Peer to peer generation and storage, supported by an integrated grid is The Way
That's always been the goal
Industrial sights often combine an high level grid access with small to medium sized power generation often for heating or cooling and electricity on side.
In addition to Photovoltaic for electricity.
We did that decades ago.
We say fossil fuels, but that's not one fuel.
Before we had "renewables", coal , natural gas, several types of waste liquid fuels, nuclear, and hydro made our electricity.
The biggest problem is that we have to move large amounts of electricity around the country as the day goes on.
Renewables allow us to put lots of electricity production right where the homes are, which will greatly reduce how much electricity is moved.
For example, if the people in your neighborhood produced 30% of their peak electricity usage, then you have to move a LOT less energy long distances to meet that peak.
This is a great find Dave, this is very interesting, specially if you live close to the shore or where wind is a daily occurrence ta decent speeds. I hope they design also a smaller unit for residential use.
Another tool, in the tool chest, used to repair the damage done!
Great video, can hardly wait to see them, on every other rooftop!
This is another flavour of diffuser augmented wind turbine (DAWT). Many have been tried, none have succeeded. Diffusers (the additional non rotating structure to modify wind flow) generally add to the cost and to the drag forces (which in turn adds to the cost of structure/fixings/foundations) while not providing sufficient additional energy capture to offset those extra costs. The Aeromine example might take advantage of a building structure to augment production, but are the additional forces compatible with the building structure or does it need to be reinforced at extra cost. The Aeromine device is dependent on harvesting wind from one direction only and there are few locations where this would not be a disadvantage vs a traditional HAWT or VAWT which can adapt to wind from any direction. I wish them luck but this is a well trodden path to failure. At least they don't seem to be claiming that they can beat the Betz limit.
Spot on. I understand that any structure near a turbine will reduce the air speed in a real world out door environment
@@JonathanFrost it is possible to increase wind speed with a diffuser structure. No one has made it worthwhile yet
Excellent views on this subject of DAWT .
Good point of view. I don't say it doesn't work but I need data to knows how it works (power vs wind speed, wind direction, and so on.....).
Thank you because they don't fucking work is yelp people suck hopefully somebody to work but let's just continue Fucking shit up in a world until then
This is one of the best channels. World needs more... decent people to just have think👍
Cheers Johan :-)
Fascinating!! I must say I am very impressed.
So true, remote rural off grid here just installed a wind generator to complement my solar, still gauging the results but it is keeping the batteries 24V system topped up overnight will watch this company with interest hope they get it down to the off grid house level at a reasonable price
Thank you! Brilliant as always and I am a great fan of your channel. To the Aeromine: As always with a new product in energy generation, you know exactly where the problem by looking for what is not being stated: Price and productivity. That is not David's fault - it has not been published anywhere. I had to ask. For those of us interested in the financial returns in terms of IRR: A single unit cost c. €10K in hardware only, turnkey installed c. €15K, depending on labour costs. Output is stated at 10-15 MWh per unit per annum, depending on location and wind conditions. In company presentations, output for a 40 unit array is shown at 400-600 MWh total p.a. That comes to the 10-15 MWh per unit per annum, although there are no long term studies to underpin this. O&M is claimed to be practically nil but generator unit needs to be changed out every 6-8 years, so call it 7. That makes it c.€140 p.a. and that is if nothing else happens (not my life experience). Wind speed needs to be 4-5 m/s (3.7 to start up), so 14-18 km/h, which is not an unreasonable speed in suitable locations (not all are). At a more reasonable 1.5% O&M costs, an assumed price of "saved energy" of €120 per MWh i.e. what you pay your provider as a commercial user the IRR is 4-9% (unlevered, equity only) on 10-15 MWh productivity p.a. per unit. No guarantees though ("depending on wind conditions"). That does not make this bankable. This certainly does not beat solar PV (static, angled, on flat rooftops with imperfect locations) in Southern Europe, but it might in W France, Benelux and Scandi and may be SCO. Boxes need to become cheaper. But an interesting concept. Vibrations and torsion stress seems to be less of a problem than with HAWT or VAWT. Turning into the wind will make this much more expensive and kill IRR, even if there is a bit more productivity. Let us see whether they can lower prices with a ramped up production. These things are not complicated to make. The R&D is the clever bit. Please remember that the prop is not directly driven by the wind but rather by a vacuum effect caused by the foils. This does not work with normal HAWT or VAWT calculations.
I think this is a brilliant addition to the options available for corporate-sized buildings. Home units should also become available to augment existing solar. Good stuff, nice report.
Hi Dave. I'm been working with solar energy since 1991. I hve been installer, own company, ceo, superwiser, board member in large solar associations in Sweden. Developer of large thermal solar panels 5,3m- almost 209 inches. The picture you have at the top right of the video about producing both heat and solar electricity at the same time and in the same place is not the best solution. But it is a solution that can be accepted if you have poor space in which to build. Solar cells must have as cold an environment as possible for best efficiency - If it is hot, their efficiency decreases. If the solar cells get hotter, the effect drops by about 0.4 percent per degree. A solar collector can reach up to 200° and with such a high temperature the effect from the solar cells is reduced by about 80%. If the power from the solar cells is 22%, the net power becomes 22*0.8=17.6%, It is better to build the two technologies separately. Thanks for a great and informative video on rooftop wind, something I had in my mind 20 years ago. BR Petri
I currently have solar with a Tesla Powerwall 2, so adding this will circle the square and get my home off the grid 100% of the time here in the UK. Will be keeping an eye on this company as the wind never stops blowing here.
5KW? Damn, that is a substantial amount of electricity. For locations with consistent wintertime winds from one direction, this is brilliant.
thats per unit, imagine a line of them along the edge of a roof.
'Rated 5 kW' means 5 kW is the absolute maximum the turbine can deliver without damage. Operation in low winds delivers less. In very high winds the turbine needs to shut down for self preservation, and will deliver no power at all. The typical long term average output is lower by a 'capacity factor' which for classic wind turbines is (40 ... 50)%.
For industry that's barely a lightbulb. A normal large version produces in the megawatts.
5kw peak power is equivalent to multiple panels (10 or 12) of pv like he said in the video.
Too substantial to be believed.
I always enjoy videos about ideas that are in the later stages of development. I tend to think that the solutions to our problems will be multifaceted and very decentralized---alongside grid-scale energy production. Thanks, from Denver, Colorado.
Agreed 100%.
We proved that concept this passed summer in LA. All owners of Tesla power walls were asked to participate in a Grid-support exercise, where the grid could withdrawn power from the home batteries during peak hour demand. From what I saw on my app, 56K of us did sign up and the end result was that we did not have single black out incident while experiencing breaking record temperatures.
Decentralizing is the key, and our biggest hurdles is no longer the technology. But the well established monopoly of the power suppliers that are hell bent on slowing down the adoption of such systems.
One only needs to look at Florida to see the future.
@@fredpinczuk7352 do you get payed for letting them use your battery? It will go thru way more cycles and die way faster
@@faustinpippin9208 Correct, and I get to determine the min-max. So I allowed them min 10% and max 80%. And they are paying me $2/Kwh. I estimated the payment to be $200 to let them use it for 2 weeks. And since I currently produce about 2.5% more than I consume (House + Car), there was no impact on my own demand.
I don't mind decentralized diversified as long as YOU do the cleaning and maintenance, not an underpaid Mexican crew, nor with gov. subsidies from my tax money.
@@fredpinczuk7352 oh ok, that's pretty nice, 2$ per kwh is a lot, in my country I get like 6 cents when I sell it and when I buy it costs 40...
Had to resubscribe, sounds like youve been onto topics that are important
Great idea that will work in ideal areas
I live in a valley, meaning no wind where I am
That's awesome. The fact that they are complementary to solar installations is a huge advantage. If they can be mass produced cheaply, and integrated seamlessly into building design and electrical circuits then this could be as normal as seeing a cooling tower or AC units on top of a building.
Forget about it. These are long-dead fantasies. They can't compete with large real turbines.
Yeah, right. Awesome! No, it's not. It's a scam.
Yes, normal wind turbines just block the sun on the entire ruff, right? They are even expected to be used as beach umbrellas in the near future, right?
Just like all the other VAWTs, it carefully avoids discussing the garbage wind resource available at building height. Yes wind speed is increased on top of a building, into a turbulent mess that still offers a fraction of what you could get a couple hundred meters up. "At this early stage" is the only time any VAWT gets talked about because the moment they have an operational prototype the output makes it clear that they're wasting money and materials. Oh, and putting turbines next to solar panels is brilliant if you want to reduce the output of the panels with shading or inefficient use of surface area.
@@farnarkleboy Yeah adding more surface roughness isn't going to transform turbulent air into a laminar flow. It'll concentrate the power that's there sure, but it will lose somewhere in the vicinity of half of the power in the process. That's why surface level wind is useless to begin with. Air is not heavy. It loses a LOT of it's energy on it's first collision. If that's not your turbine, you're missing out on most of the available energy. And yeah a modicum of common sense means you'll be blocking off a sundial swing of your wind turbine that could otherwise accommodate solar panels - when you can pull 400+ watts from a 1 meter square solar panel that shaded area adds up. Wiring them with microinverters to minimize the impact of shading would but a serious tradeoff and the loss from the shading would probably outweigh the power generation of the turbine. That's why we don't already do that. When you see a wind farm it's just turbines and when you see a solar farm it's just solar panels. That's not just business tycoon fatcats making silly choices - they have teams of engineers run all the math and they do the thing that makes the most money. Channeled turbines both vertical and horizontal have been built since the 70/80s. There's nothing new here. It's just remixes of old failed ideas to generate investment capital.
Snow and wind. I'd be interested to see how this holds up in an area that gets snow and wind annually. We've run regular windmills and as soon as you get a driving snow storm, it builds up on the propellers, and puts it out of balance, and shortly thereafter, it tears itself apart. This design is definitely intriguing, but I'd definitely want to see how it holds up in the aforementioned environment. Looks promising though.
Interesting re snow build up.
It'd definitely be interesting to know if the turbine aka electric motor within the system itself suffers from ice build-up. However, that is offset by the fact that the motor itself is relatively small. It does sound like it'd be relatively easy to replace in a pinch if it did fail.
What costs more to ship? Several giant 3.5 Megawatt turbine blades or 700 small 5kW turbines?
In Inuvik, Canada they recently had a 3.5 Megawatt turbine project with cost overrun of $30,000,000 due to rising inflation/shipping costs. It's final price is estimated at $70 million dollars. Let's do the math on that difference.
$70,000,000 / 3500kW = $20,000 per kilowatt. $20,000 * 5kW = $100,000.
I genuinely doubt that a single Aeromine DAWT would cost $100,000.
It's great to pursue specific individual efficiency, but don't ignore the elephant in the room or miss the forest for the trees. Specific energy efficiency doesn't matter unless you can deliver predictable, reliable power and an actual return on your investment. As long as you can deliver on net efficiency, you're much better off with predictable costs.
If you'd just need 700 5kW Aeromine DAWT's setup on businesses, homes and structures with a predictable predominant wind direction to make 3.5 Megawatts of peak power during high winds, I don't really see the difference. Specific energy efficiency of VAWT vs HAWT vs DAWT didn't help multiple wind turbines setup in the arctic to provide a return on investment.
These look as if replacing the small turbine within the DAWT itself would be something that you can easily ship in the regular mail. No requirement for the use of heavy equipment to get 3.5 Megawatt turbine blades from A to B at every step of the supply chain.
Aircraft fly through snow and icing conditions often. The aviation industry has developed systems for dealing with such conditions. Anti icing boots on leading edges. Propellor heat. When you have energy available you can design solutions for such conditions.
@@joesomebody1987 I agree - you can design anything with enough money. However, in doing so you make the unit so expensive that it becomes cost prohibitive to the general public. If only the ultra rich can buy it, how widely spread will this technology be used?
I’m still curious how these units will hold up, as they have been designed, in a snowy environment.
@@joesomebody1987 as I live in the snow belt. On the ground airplanes have a tough time stopping snow / ice buildup on the ground. Even jet airliners often have a final de icing right before they leave the gate. I think snow / ice build up could be an issue but there’s some smart folks out there that may have solved that already. Very good video Sir.
I'm glad youtube introduced me to you. Very, very nice video.
Love the Idea and possibilities, bring one down to NM and set one up on my roof(am sure the landlord will ok it)....
I would love to see something like this work and will also be keeping a keen eye on it. What I see as another opportunity is integrating systems like this much more into the building structure, so they won't stand out. By creating aerodynamic AND architectural units like this, they would become even more attractive. Imagine a building designed to take the rooftop wind from all directions and run it through Aeromine type units increasing yield in areas where wind is more variable.
Good idea.
I think if the idea works (I've not seen them in action) then there has to be some trade space in roof design leading to more ideal architecture under the turbines.
What if instead of catching regular updrafts, there was a big funnel section of the building concentrating all that wind into the air inlet?
That could be more effective than the venturi portion of the design, and we could do without. The funnel would provide the venturi instead of trying to use the venturi like headers on a sports car to relieve backpressure from the engine.
Stand on the top of a skyscraper - near the edge as you can safely... Every evening (almost) you will feel a tremendous blow of wind coming from the street below up the side of the building. Thats where they attach the venturi vanes - to accelerate the wind and spin the generator. Elegant!
Very exciting! It strikes me that one great potential for this system is in environments where wind is feasible and solar is less productive. Add in the complication of harsh environments that are so tough on exposed moving parts, and you have a winning solution.
Looks very interesting. I live on a coast so this kind of energy generation would be a good choice to consider once the wiggles are worked out.
As the owner of a grade II listed house, I won't be fitting one on my roof but seeing the visual impressions of the units positioned along the roofline of industrial or multi occupancy dwelling buildings, they have an appearance which is quite appealing. It's footprint could be adapted to the structure of pitched roof houses but the carefully designed flow dynamics would probably need to be changed to suit the pitch of the roof behind it🤔
I'm sure it will have a big role in developing domestic scale wind generation and I can't wait to see more.
Love your dedication to educating us! It gives me hope.
We must keep trying until the end, no matter how it turns out. if we don't even try as a species, well I for one wish the Rat People better luck when they emerge in a million years
Cheers Eliot. Much appreciated :-)
Snake oil is great stuff and gives us all hope, but does it do what it says on the can? There are any number of people on UA-cam advertising their free energy systems, but they make me despair rather than hope.
@@Merlin3189 Ad hominem, strawman, appeal to emotion logical fallacies. False Equivalence likely also applies. As does:
Groupthink, confirmation bias, and group attribution error. HAND.
@@TheHorseshoePartyUK I don't think he made all those mistakes.
Thanks I'll just have a think. Interesting topic. Thanks for sharing
Very well explained. Thank you for your work. Regards from Barcelona
I remember me and my dad building a vertical ventury out of two model plane wings to drive a toy turbine.
It was a fantastic life experience for both of us, but we had to conclude that there's one issue with wind driven generators.
If it ain't huge, don't bother.
Do you think Harmony Wind Turbines have something for smaller scale applications? ua-cam.com/video/p4dfGDPUsGM/v-deo.html
@@srw_cricket2976
Wind just isn't suitable for small scale application, the physics don't allow it. And a VAWT will never be as efficient as a HAWT for the same reason, I'm sorry..
For small scale solar is the better option, that's why there's a market for it. Wishful thinking never outweighs hard data.
@@isuckharderthanlife5413 400 Watt wind turbines are about $270 on Amazon. In parts of the world with unreliable sunlight you can go off grid for less than $10K.
I think the size is the key as well. The opening, if it is 25 square feet, should be equivalent to a wind generator with a 3 foot radius. Such a machine has a 28 square foot swept area. Running at 40% efficiency and a 15 m.p.h. wind, you only get 190 watts.
@@The_Savage_Wombat That is peak output. Average output will be much much less at nearly every location. Particularly since few put them on tall towers.
Had to give a like for informing us about something new and important.
It appears to be exciting and useful
Yes I would be very keen to see the real costs and savings with this. In my area the wind is usually from the north west but regularly swings around to south which is usually a gale. I would have space to build a square structure to get the edge of the building effect in pretty much any direction so a steerable version sounds good. Keep me posted.
Glider pilots, model glider enthusiasts, hang gliders and para gliders will all recognise this as ridge lift. In other words a similar effect is found on the brow of hills facing the oncoming wind. Frequently found near seaside cliffs and inland on some hills. I.e. you do not need a building although putting these on buildings does make a lot of sense.
As with all these good ideas I would like to see people deploying a few hundred to see if they can work at a worthwhile scale. Around the UK I would guess there will be hundreds of miles of potential sites.
A ridge can be impacted by corrosion and this is a little bit difficult to forecast with all those wind, water and ground conditions.
Great suggestion
@@paxundpeace9970
I think you mean erosion, and most ridges have been around quite a long time......
If something has been there for thousands of years, it'll probably be ok for at least a few hundred more.
Thank you, this is great info and well presented
Great applications to buildings along the coast which can count on an abundance of wind.
Here in Canada ice and snow are issues for wind turbines and solar panels, this unit looks to overcome that problem since the fan is inside and most snow would just get blown thru it. If it's as efficient as they claim then it could be a game changer.
This is an exciting advancement. Another video I saw indicated that its performance doesn't drop off much when the wind is as much as 45 degrees of optimal because of the airfoil physics, so it doesn't even have to rotate into the wind, simplifying design incredibly.
You explained the only thing that I watched this video for. Thanks.
Comments are always better than the content.
Brilliant solution. Great video.
As long as 'brilliant solutions' only exist in animations and computer graphics I am very reluctant calling them that.
This miracle thing will not produce 5 kilowatt, will be expensive, and I predict it will never pass experimental stage as is the case with all magical small scale wind harvesting tools with 'impossible' efficiency.
I once put forward a concept to a facade company about utilising the air pressure differences around corners on High Rise buildings by creating a venturi through the corners and using a small turbine, several of them.
It would be nice to have a special segment "Pros and Cons" in each video. For this one it's obvious that wind direction could drastically reduce the efficiency of the generator and it's not clear whether this was accounted in those nice advertised numbers by the company.
i think with several decade on aero engineering, wind direction must be the first thing that they consider... that's why it placed on the edge of the rooftop on the side that facing annually predominant wind direction...
How about obstructions... The pr shots are mainly standalone distribution centers.
@@christianvanderstap6257 if it targeted for factory/warehouse building i don't think they will face any kind of obstruction problem...
@EndureTemptation I'd say it's absolutely vital. We can't compare the pros and cons, or the price, if we're not told any specifications.
They don't even give optimistic ones of the end product.
@@joeblogs6598 "They don't even give optimistic ones of the end product."
So if they give unbiased estimates, they are going to get dinged because folks will assume the numbers are juiced? I think you just highlighted why numbers shared are probably not useful beyond gossip. That makes me happy that they aren't sharing more details yet -- here's hoping that they're just trying to be as honest as possible!
Interesting video, thanks! To determine if competitive, need to know initial cost, cost per kWh, power generated per kph (wind speed), dB noise rating (contrary to your report it does have moving parts - just not readily visible). Once known, it can be more readily assessed whether it is a better option to existing wind generators.
Excellent contents as always and fascinating technology!
One small note:
If we assume the solar panel is active during the day time (say 12h a day on average), and this system has 50% more const efficiency, it means it generated only 75% electricity equivalent to the solar panels during day (ie when electricity demand is high) and 75% during night (when the demand and tariff is low). Overall, given the peak electricity is 50-100% more expensive than the off peak rate, this system hardly likely to have any commercial advantage other than smaller footprint, especially in a larger commercial set up.
That looks awesome!
Three thoughts/questions: 1. For coastal locations (beach), how would the unit handle long term exposure to sand blast and accumulation? 2. Would a rotating base be a useful addition to always have the unit facing the wind, rather than just the prevalent wind? 3. Is there a max wind rating? I am thinking of cyclone/typhoon.hurricane conditions.
Thank you for your great videos. I often put UA-cam on my second screen and split my attention between primary work and secondary viewing. With yours, I stop and watch 100%.
As for the first two questions: the design, at least it seems to me, has the building's roof edge as a mandatory design feature so positioning it e. g. by the sea would likely not be quite as effective. Also rotating it around its vertical axis would break the upstream collection by the building's wall. Wear and weathering would likely not be as bad as with moving parts however.
You might be interested in a design that came to me in a dream for a wind turbine, is nothing like existing , goes like this , Imagine a rain pipe mounted on a tripod for stability parallel to the ground, spins 360 degrees to catch wind from any direction , internal blade spins to that can reach much higher velocity , copper wiring fitted externally , I'm not the electrician but basically its one huge generator. It definitely came from a higher dimenSION...SION..promised land.
@@pinarellolimoncello Amazing! Imagine this pipe mounted in lower orbit. Earth is rotating with 28.000km/h! Imagine that wind power!😜
@@michaelv.1107 Exactly, would be amazing, why stop at lower orbit, can see this going global..
Obviously a super radical design. The only future issue that i can forsee is the upper structural integrity of existing buildings, as there will be generated forces within each unit to the anchor points.
Whereas any new builds can have this problem designed in.
I hope they do really well i have been watching this particular company through their design stages for a while now.
Oh just subbed also mate.
Add A.I technology to this and the wind generators can talk/communicate with each other and get maximum winder power bu adjusting positions throughout the day..also they look ugly add led lighting make it sexy and use as source of advertisement they can light up and display images/work synchronicity and produce opportunity for corporate branding..Great idea these additions will make it sell to public and companies..remember you saw it here first 24/02/2023...message me for ideas im an independent designer/creative
You may want to update your description to say there are no visible moving parts. It is a very interesting design.
Thank you for a great informative video.
This would be the perfect supplement to a solar power + battery system at my house. I live on a bluff overlooking the Strait of Juan de Fuca with a roof line that faces north/south. Winter days are short and often cloudy, making it impossible to completely power the house from rooftop solar despite plenty of unobstructed southern exposure. But the winds routinely pick up around sunset and are often much stronger in the winter, making wind power ideal in those months. I suspect one of these and an array of panels along the southern roof exposure as well as a battery backup would make us completely off-grid or at least resilient against the outages that are pretty frequent here.
Things like this on residential roofs are invariably a disappointment.
@@rogerphelps9939 - I suspect you're right. But I think my house has pretty nearly optimal conditions for such a combination. I have excellent southern exposure. I'm also on a high bluff overlooking an ocean-going shipping channel. The winds pick up pretty predictably out of the northwest as the sun goes down. Winds are especially strong in the winter when daylight is limited.
If they can't meet their targets at my house, they're not doing it most other places.
I hope this innovation fulfills its promise. My first thought was what temperature range the kit could operate within.
Why is temperature a significant factor? 22% variation would cover -20 C to + 40 C. How much does power vary with temperature? Since density increases with lower temperature, there should be a little more power available in a cold wind at the same speed as a hot one. And power may be more useful in cold weather.
This sounds very good!!
At my work at NASA I ran across a micro wind turbine design that was being researched first in the wind tunnels on site and then using the super computers, the design was so elegant and simple i tried my hand at building one for an off grid homesteader friend. It consisted of a round plywood base 1 mtr dia with a spiral groove 5cm deep and 10 turns to a 20cm hole, into the groove a piece of sheet metal 1mtr wide was cut to make a 1mtr full hight turn in the outside spiral groove, then tapering down to end at the hole in the middle, under the hole was a car alternator on end with a squirrel cage type fan so that the upper edge of the fan was just inside the hole in the base but not touching,.The assembly of a 1mtr high open stand to allow airflow up through the fan setup to turn clockwise taking advantage of the coriolis effect. The front gap was oriented to the prevailing wind that followed the spiral path, it causes a low pressure at the hole in the base spinning the fan and alternator unit, a auto regulator was used to charge batteries in the base to supply lighting and small appliances, radio, cel phones, etc. Even though the unit's orientation was fixed the effective wind direction was up to 120 deg's. I read the Israelis built an enhanced version burning trash underneath, no data on that. Only issue reported was in variable, strong winds the unit emitted kind of moaning sound downwind. NASA dropped the program when it was found not to be up scalable. Also reminded of the Altamont Pass egg beater windmills, long gone.
The space between two of these installations is quite large. For normal wind turbines this is important because one turbine could mess with the flow of nearby turbines. I wonder if placing them next to each other will affect performance because the fact that it uses negative pressure might make them particularly resilient against this. This would greatly increase the number of units you could place in a certain area
Actually the more of them next to each other the better they would do... they would create an ever larger air pressure difference between the front and rear of the units which would increase their output.
it is not precisely an area you can use, it is more like a line along an edge...
It appears there is a rotating blade electric generation system in the updraft channel. Does that qualify as "no moving parts"? Wouldn't it still have the same wear and tear and maintenance issues as any other rotating micro wind generator? I also notice they compare the cost and output to solar panels but not to other micro wind generation systems. Is this significantly better?
I have the same question. It seems there is a turbine at the foot of the tower.
That's no 'visible' moving parts.
@@Maamoore That's no 'visible' moving parts.
Rooftop VAWTs is an on-going scam for investment capital. They're fundamentally untenable but they *seem* like they would work. It's because wind resource is unintuitive. It's a lot more powerful up where it's not bouncing off houses and trees and the ground
I said no VISIBLE moving parts, which is the important criterion for many planning jurisdictions. The propeller would of course normally be covered with a facia plate
Just found this channel and a 1:45 seconds in I already like it
This is so interesting especially for the UK.
I’m in Australia and have a fully off grid power system for my home. I would love to integrate something like this to cover the winter months. The problem with winter is the number of hours of sunlight combined with overcast makes it hard to fully charge the batteries. I m very interested in the aero mine
I've looked at building something like this and I think it holds a lot of promise. One of the problems of putting a turbine on a structure like a house is the vibration. Anything that spins will create some noise and vibration and I'm willing to buy Aeromine's assertion that their design produces far less than an open turbine blade. Clearly the Aeromine blade would be smaller and spin much more quickly and, being enclosed and suspended by a well damped system, (that you can't employ if your turbine is at the top of a rigid pole) could minimize noise and vibration.
A typical 5kW wind turbine might have a swept area of 15 to 20 sq. m and the catchment area of the Aeromine looks to be nowhere near that. I would also think the capacity factor of the unit would be less since it appears to be fixed in place. If its orientation could change by putting the whole thing on a bearing allowing it to rotate with wind direction, the capacity factor would increase substantially I would think.
Allowing it to rotate would not be a huge challenge as the bearing would be on the ground and could be quite large, again, easier to do than if the who thing is on the top of a tall pole. Anyway, an interesting approach and one of several attempts to bring wind energy generation right to the buildings where it will be used. Good stuff!
the main wind is the rising hot air from below, the wind on top is just an accelerator to increase the main wind speed...
I think AeroMine are using the updraft of the building in addition to general wind.
I reckon go off the 50% more than equivalent rooftop solar for a capacity factor estimate. It’s prob in the low to mid 20% vs 35-40% for good utility scale wind sites
The way I understood it, this device harvests the increased air flow produced when the wind hits a wall, & all the air is forced upwards. As it reaches the top it speeds up, & the aeromine is positioned to use that speed to drive it's propellers. If it points any other way it would miss the sweet spot for efficient performance.
In the same way, used at ground level, the device would only catch actual wind speed, with no increase given by the top of the wall position.
@@morciej yes, the red coloring make it like thermal updraft...
Interesting concept, over many years I have toyed with/ used all kinds of homemade water, wind, and solar items from passive heat, water heat, and electric generation on a small scale, however, an airfoil never really crossed my mind. I would be interested in a couple one meter size for my home if we had more wind in the central USA. We don't get much more than a gentle breeze except during storms.
2:21
Makes a solid improvement
A nice development but it has a couple of issues that need to be addressed. The first issue is one you already mentioned; it doesn't rotate so has to be installed facing the prevailing wind direction. It effectively catches the wind at a 45 degree angle on both sides so only captures wind from a 90 degree angle. Any wind outside that angle is lost (the other 270 degrees). The next issue is how efficiently it can use the wind's energy. Normal windturbines get up to about 50%, pretty close to the Betz limit, but this one only gets up to 25%. Another issue is the claimed power of 5kW. This number was obtained in a free field situation with no obstacles around. However, in a urban environment you have other buildings that impact the wind speed at rooftop level due to the so-called surface roughness. Even in a rural setting you have trees and hedges and other vegetation that have an impact on the wind speed. In order to "beat" solar panels this turbine needs wind speeds of more than 6 m/s (close to 7 m/s) but in urban and rural environments those wind speeds on average don't come above 4 to 4,5 m/s. So this turbine is only more efficient than solar panels in an open field situation.
What measure are you judging efficiency? Roof space required per kW or something else?
@@rbolden $/kWh. Solar panels have a cost of about $0.08 to $0.10 per kWh and this turbine needs wind speeds of 5.5 m/s to get to a cost of $0.10 per kWh. That wind speed is above the average (4 m/s to 4.5 m/s) for urban environments.
Very interesting. We have a Santa Fe style flat top roof in Arizona (also lots of sun) where I wonder what impact the ambient temperature might have? Thanks for this great news!
Yes, looks very promising even for residential Dwelling.
Venturi systems has been used in the gas heating industry for decades for example fan prooving in gas boilers and the movement of water through hydraulics. It is amazing that the principle of this technology discovered 100s of year ago is now transitioning from fossil fuel created energy to renewable. All good stuff 👍
I'd like to see a residential version of this.
I saw another video on this one and what I was missing in your video was the mentioning of the angle in which the installation is capturing the wind! Unfortunately, I can’t recall this quickly, so maybe good if you could check this for us! I think this also is actually the only drawback of the system: it is great if the wind direction is actually quite consistent. It might be worthwhile for a second generation or an alternative design to offer the possibility to turn the installation. That would increase the number of viable locations! Also it would be more robust to the more variable wind conditions we have to deal with thanks to climate change…
My thoughts exactly! Why not allow them to swivel so that they can continuously track the wind's direction? Must be some technical reason why this isn't feasible.
4:31
I think it would be a good idea to have the contraption pivot around the turbine axis so it aims at the wind automatically.. I am a bit surpized this is not already build in, seems rather simple to me to achieve this.
Like PV installations, there is a simple solution: rotate different units to capture the most potential.
A tall building creates an updraft as the moving air can't get past the building. I looked into it for a HAWT on a 9 storey building. Mounted on the edge to capture the updraft velocity rather than the general wind speed. Consider how a chimney draws smoke upwards due to the passing air at roof level.
Brilliant video! And a fine solution. Can work as a LISA. Locally integrated solutions.
As you said, "the cold hard numbers", will ultimately determine if they succeed. It looks like something that can be relatively cheap to manufacture once they get production cranked up.
The most important consideration when dealing with a rooftop installation is how it will impact the structure it sits on. Solar panels and racking are light enough to be suitable for most rooftops. These machines look heavier and apoear to concentrate a lot more weight over a smaller footprint, which could drastically limit their suitability to sit on top of many buildings not designed with them in mind. Another concern is that the edge of a roof is often going to be reserved to allow access to technicians or firefighters. This company should be reaching out to any of the hundreds of structural engineers and commercial solar project developers who have dealt with these issues thousands of times so they can determine if these problems won’t severely limit their addressable market size.
Not only the self weight but also the dynamic loading forces for normal and storm force winds.
As long as you mount it on top of a load bearing wall this shouldn't be an issue but most industrial construction halls try to be as light as possible to reduce cost.
@@redshift3 Yeah dynamic loads
@@paxundpeace9970
They don't design load bearing walls for unlimited weight.
Thars why roofs occasionally collapse when they get too much snow. They were built to hold a LOT of weight from snow. But a few thousand pounds extra, and you can get a collapse.
These things are going to be heavy, and there's no way a building that wasn't bullt to handle them is going to have as many on its roof as they showed.
Nevermind the dynamic loading from the wind.
I’m guessing that in the many years of effort that went into this product, they also have talked a lot to structural engineers about how to make it safe and as broadly installable as possible.
It would be much more interesting if you can work with other independent experts to assess in more detail - even if the company doesn’t divulge any numbers- to do some back of the napkin calculations to get some tangible numbers to play with. We are all very skeptical and the lack of figures doesn’t help 🌷🤷♀️ still fan of you channel!
+1 for team scepticism.
That would kill a lot of his videos. Better to sell dream for cheap and not delve in the realities of physics...
He earns money by making clickbait videos (i just got clickbaited right now), no point for him to do some serious job, there is less money to be made.
Just for clarity Etienne. I don't run ads or engage in paid sponsorships on this channel. Ever. Since the very beginning. ZERO income from YT monetisation. So the number of views is irrelevant to me, other than the fact that I think it is important that as many people as possible get see potentially useful new technologies.
The company does not divulge any numbers for very good reasons. One step ahead of failure.
I have a solar PV install and home battery and would love one of these units to back up the generation when the weather is cloudy :-) Hope they get these to the UK market ASAP.
I lived in a 16 story condo tower in San Juan, Puerto Rico and in 2008 I proposed a solar array with horizontal wind turbines mounted at the edge of the roof facing the ocean. I measured the winds there to average above 17 MPH, an ideal location for such equipment.
In hot climates, and heat generating buildings e.g. factories, you could presumably harness the natural ventilation effect of heat rising expelled from the building through vents to feed the wind turbine, which would in turn enhance the cooling effect within the building by creating the effect of an extract fan through the wind turbines increased air flow speed, as well as driving the wind turbine in windless conditions.
Great video as usual, really nice overview of how it works! My only issue with the system, which I discussed on my channel, is the slow wind speeds on rooftops (and how this is glossed over by Aeromine). This is a problem for all rooftop/micro wind, not just Aeromine, but it is quite a big one!
I have had some interesting comments on my channel though at possible applications for this technology, especially in areas too extreme for standard wind turbines and solar panels (e.g., Antarctica). I'm sure it could have other interesting applications to possibly compliment solar panels, as it may be more space efficient at generating power, but it is likely to be more expensive in terms of LCOE!
I would be worried about weather conditions conducive to icing, freezing mist conditions. Still, I think there's a niche for this product.
-- I also think that we shouldn't put too much emphasis on head-to-head efficiency comparisons. As long as a system has a moderate degree of energy- and cost-efficiency, with some durability, reliability, and ease of maintenance, we should be looking for niches where various products might be more appropriate. For some sites (low-income countries and neighborhoods), low first cost might be more important than net efficiency, and low-income people can be expected not to make as heavy demands on the systems. Obviously, there are climate- and micro-climate niches. In urban and suburban areas, the physical topography of the built environment makes a difference. Too many discussions on these matters have the flavor of central-planning oversimplification. It wasn't too long ago that there was a raging either/or debate about the relative merits of solar and wind power, in search of a one-size-fits-all solution, like Great Reset thinking about human organization.
-- Diverse, decentralized energy production makes for a less-brittle energy infrastructure, though the current administration and global elites seem determined to make everyone more dependent on a centralized electrical grid (and a centralized surveillance-oriented digital currency). There are political agendas at work here, namely pushing the West toward a more China-like political system.
-- The point of energy production is to serve the energy needs of the people, not to enable governments to make the people more dependent on centralized infrastructure and control. So bring on the niche solutions.
Really interesting, ideal for commercial buildings which tend to have flat roof’s. I would love to see this miniaturised with all parts being 3D printed to bring it down to the housing end of the spectrum, even if it only produced 0.5Kw overnight it would top up a solar systems battery pack to keep things ticking over so there’s enough ‘free’ energy available when the home owners wake up and flash up the kitchens.
So true, remote rural off grid here just installed a wind generator to complement my solar, still gauging the results but it is keeping the batteries 24V system topped up overnight will watch this company with interest hope they get it down to the off grid house level at a reasonable price
Many domestic dwellings require less than 500W at night to operate. You could potentially run you house overnight on one of these alone.
@@rbolden especially if you like I do run inverter friendly fridge and led lighting and gas for the stove
amazing video. gained another subscriber. hug from Brazil.
There are good ideas and there are some bad ones, but as always, always, there is someone that has a bridge to seal you.
Needs a dominant wind direction +/- 45 degrees. Not all locations have this but otherwise very promising!
You might to mount it on a rotating base and given it's low weight this shouldn't be not that big of an issue.
@@paxundpeace9970 Good idea but complicated to keep it turned into the wind??
interesting way to arrange a venturi
Like a Dyson bladeless fan in reverse! Clever.
@@Tore_Lund that's more about Coandă effect
@@alanhat5252 Same thing.
Would like to add to inquire about buying one of these units. Because I have a flat roof and I’m interested in Wendover solar because it much better for me than solar power. Keep up the good work on the channel.
Ive been a design build renewable energy contractor for 3 decades. About 15 yrs ago I installed a vertical axis wind turbine under a pilot program for the US military. At the time I was asked to select the product to be installed. I could find no product at the time that I could stand behind for performance or reliability criteria. The govt selected and purchased a product rated at 5kW. The location we installed the vertical axis wind turbine was a Hawaii military base apprrox 1000 ft above sea level with constant prevailing winds of 10-20 mph. The turbine though rated at 5kW never produced more than 500 watts. Also the inverter paired with the turbine minimum voltage was the lowest available at the time but the turbine only produced power at around 15 mph wind speed. The turbine was supposed to have a built in brake for high wind. Unfortunately the turbine failed within 1 yr and actually blew apart embedding pieces into surrounding buildings. Fortunately nobody was injured. Ever since I've been skeptical of vertical axis wind turbine technology.....
1930s Tiger Moth artificial horizon uses this principle in an entirely mechanical way 2 venturis suck air through the unit spinning up a gyroscope that provides the source of reference. Neat like this idea. Turning the blades to optimise flow would be a simple step. Cheers, love the vids
Seems like a vertical pivot with rate buffer to allow rotation 360 degrees would be beneficial for any wind direction . I like it .
No, everybody knows that wind is perfectly constant in speed and direction. Or is that what they want to sell us?
That's going to be noisy. And create maintenance. I'd work on the base design so wind from any direction can be "scooped" into the mill. Seems weird that wasn't incorporated into the original design. Not rocket science.
What's amazing about this solution, is that the top of the unit can also accommodate solar panels for additional generation.
Coupled with geothermal heating/cooling (which reduces energy dramatically), and modest storage to capture nighttime or surplus generation, I wouldn't be surprised to see a combination provide near 100% of household energy needs, using the grid as a fallback, or as an opportunity to distribute surplus energy.
Excellent! 👍🏻
It looks a bit industrial, I couldn't see it on older house roofs, but industrial roofs would be a no brainer
Well there's a business idea if I've ever heard one. Design these for residential use.
It's a fascinating and on the face of it quite feasible idea, though sadly only applicable in areas that have predominant wind directions. Living in a place with constantly shifting, yet quite good wind, I'd like to see more focus on omnidirectional wind generators.
I don't see why they couldn't be mounted on a swivel to take in more wind
@@puffinjuice and a wind vane directing it into wind direction for production.
Now THIS innovation looks like it is actually going to pan out and become a big component of the green energy mix. Of all the 'potentially' innovative new machines you've profiled here, I think this one is the most viable yet. It's really incredible the amount of power the unit produces relative to its size.
No way. Did you make a calculation?
Very interesting. Unfortunately, I can only see this setup working in areas in warmer climates. We get a lot of snow on our roof during winter months, which is why we opted for pole mounted solar panels. They are much easier to sweep off than if they were mounted on the roof. Thanks so much for such interesting videos.
where I live flat roofs get shoveled,. So in a commercial setting where these are targeted you'd have a maintenance guy doing snow removal on the roof.
Given low wind speeds in most urban locations (due to height and friction) I'd like to see some capacity factor numbers from real world deployment.
Like so many other such systems, cost is the key issue (this includes installation and building reinforcement cost). And with SO much competition coming out, we’re going to see some really excellent designs come out of it. This one seems particularly well thought out, and I’m glad to see it in real testing, not just vaporware.
Its vaporware if no one can afford it or if regulatory permitting is limited to just commercial buildings. Let's talk about mass usage on single family residential homes and I'll listen.
@@alexnutcasio936 You just posted the "real story" individual use is the key to any type of alternate energy development and use.
Innovative excellence
Cool idea, it's basically an air siphon and you could probably come up with multiple design variations and make your own at home.
I still like the small, vertical wind turbines along freeways & highways. I love to hear that entrepreneurs are coming up with a variety of solutions for producing energy.
All great until they get run over by a car or truck.
Those turbines increase drag on the vehicles. The energy comes from their fuel tanks.
A lot of roofs in my country are peaked instead of flat. There is some difference in the angle as well. I wonder how easy it would be to compensate for this. Should be easy enough to make a mutable support structure to install it, but I'm guessing you would need a very special wind-tunnel-designed scoop at the bottom intake if you wanted a one-size-fits-all solution for these roofs?
Wonder if it can be incorporated into the chimney stacks of today as they are just a hollow void with a pipe. Thus hidden and secured to all sides
Great report ! Interesting tech .
Thanks for another great video. Generation at points close to requirement can only help the "National Infrastructure" adapt to the high low, short need requirements of modern life.
I think there is a Dutch outfit that have developed a "pod" design to sit on flat roof buildings that has solar PV on top of a "sculpted" interior to use Venturi effects through multiple wind generators. All generators create vibration and it is the mounting of this that will prevent the transmission of any vibrations into the building.
I think expectations need to be set on the levels of power generation. I wouldn't expect to get out of the KiloWatt generation for an installation.
National infrastructures have developed where power is generated in large central locations, not at the edge and as such not feeding back into the national infrastructure.
Solutions like this are great for a building or small development and as part of a wider energy independence plan I'm sure would make financial sense.
:)
Keep up the good work :)