it's also just really immersion breaking to have to swap back and forth. I find in skyrim more than any of the games most combat encounters require you to pause the game and open up some menu.
I disagree, personally I liked that there was a melee/magic stance like in Morrowind, it made mage characters feel a lot more special. As opposed to Oblivion where you can cast, block, and attack all at the same time
Big dark souls fan but I do agree with you to a certain extent, ultimately all the "RPG" of Dark Souls is make bigger number and playing as a level one character is essentially just a more annoying version of playing a level 100 character rather than an actual limitation. Still love it because I also enjoy the itch of the moveset learning action hack and slash but it's just completely different from a more full featured RPG.
Honestly, calling dark souls an RPG is a misnomer. it's basically just a system to allow you to experience the playstyle you want. You don't do any actual roleplaying, your build has no long lasting impact in fact ds2, 3, bloodborne and Elden ring even encourage respeccing your build if you dont like it anymore. it's an action game with slight RPG mechanics put on top. What I like about the souls games is the mechanics of the combat flow itself tho, knowing your range and your enemy's range, waiting for gaps to be open to deal damage if you can't stagger them, or trying to stagger them as often as possible. using your defensive options correctly also is half the fight, can you parry the enemy, can you block the enemy, how easy is it dodge rolling them. Ds1 and DS2 were both slow and a bit clunky regarding that, so you had to use your stamina tactically even when you were at very high levels. DS3 and Elden Ring give you more dodge rolls to have a more fast paced feeling, but you still cannot use your stamina all that willy nilly. Meanwhile all 3 modern elder scrolls games are Faux Action games with varying amounts RPG elements in them.
I think Skyrim has a great combat system that is undercut by the game's fetish with crafting. With crafting skills the game does become a numbers race with little strategy or tactics to it but without them when enemies are on a more even playing field with you, there is somewhat of a good system in place with a somewhat deep stagger system the player can intentionally manipulate to create stagger chains (power attack -> swing -> shout -> swing -> power attack for example) which feels interactive and engaging to play with, but if you're playing the game on normal difficulty you'll never notice this. Skyrim's spells are at least good design-wise because each of them have a unique effect. For example the three Adept level spells in Destruction work completely differently, with fire getting a standard AoE fireball spell, frost getting a shorter ranged whirlwind type effect, and lightning getting a chain lightning effect. These are distinct from each other in interesting ways and another unseen effect of these spells is that frost spells slow targets and drain fatigue (thus potentially stopping enemy power attacks with an ice cloak) or drain magicka with shock spells to shut down enemy mages (the same happens to you as a mage). The game also features Calm, Frenzy, Fear, and Paralysis effects for crowd control too, and Turn Undead effects for Restoration. So while Oblivion's combat system is better than people give it credit for, Skyrim's is also better than people give it credit for too imo
Yea true & there's a Mod , Av Latta Magicka that funnily enough adds those perks to Oblivion's elemental spells maybe inspired by Skyrim . The mods can add quite a lot of features/systems .
Paralysis is the only combat effect in its entire tree, and you lose the ability you had since *Daggerfall* to do things like turn the spells into an AoE, or adjust the timing to make it more powerful, or better yet, add damage over time to it. And that's just how much was lost from one spell.
This is basically just a long way of saying "spell making should have never been removed" which I agree with but that is entirely separate from the core combat. I also think people referring to combat are specifically referring to melee combat where Oblivion is lacking. Al of the truly meaningful decision points in a fight are about what spells or magic to use, not what sort of fighting techniques or attacks. Usually you just want to attack as quickly as possible. People talk up games like Dark Souls (which is much more of an action adventure title than a "live another life" simulator like a TES title) for their combat mostly because they focus on melee fighting and each weapon has a unique moveset and a lot of different types of attacks that all feel different to use. TES games need to bring back having the slash/thrust/chop dynamic and expand on it with different attacks having truly different attack properties and different weapons having different movesets to really expand on melee and give you choices of how to play rather than everything being some version of mage (I say this as someone who always plays a wizard or wizard type character in RPGs). The average person picks a human fighter type and uses little if any magic, so if that playstyle isn't supported the combat will feel much worse to them. For what it's worth, Skyrim's melee weapons don't feel that much better than Oblivion but the blocking does feel a lot better and I think that plays a big roll in making combat feel more dynamic since you can use bashes to stun enemies out of attacks/do a sort of "parry" on reaction, and the slow time block move lets you do some dodging more effectively. These go a long way to making the fight feel like it's more of a fight as opposed to just trying to get off an optimal rotation of abilities like an MMO raid.
and yet skyrim is still only a faux action game because ultimately you are just engaging in noodle slap fights. the added options of directional power attacks, bashing, timed block etc add a certain dynamic system to the game, but what really matters is your numbers. This is why people have been so quick to completely mod the core combat experience into making it different games that are more action oriented, as opposed to oblivion or morrowind, where you don't really see all that many combat overhaul mods that are as change inducing as with skyrim.
@@keinkanal7382 The most common change I hear people talk about making in Morrowind is removing the to-hit chance, which borks the game imho. As far as noodle slaps go, Oblivion is the same. Swing a sword against a goblin and you'll hear the metallic slice sound and the goblin will yelp but usually stand there. Making interesting combat has never been Bethesda's strong suit. So branching off into magic to eliminate enemies faster is a natural progression to stave off the boring nature of TES combat.
I think the average casual gamer barely dips their toe in the custom spell rabbithole and gain a comprehensive understanding of the underlying mechanics of every spell effect and how they interact and combine with every system in Oblivion. Just try playing Oblivion without using the enchanting altar or spellmaking altars until level 20-30 without a build with magic specialization and destruction or restoration as major skills to get a better sense of where the casuals are coming from. Custom spells and enchants enable god-mode if you know what you're doing, completely flipping the table in terms of balance. If you want to get schooled on Skyrim's combat, watch Poor Man's Productions.
I think a lot of dedicated gamers mistake “rewarding knowledge” for “punishing ignorance”. It’s a good thing for a game to reward higher system mastery, but it’s a bad thing for a game to punish players for not having system mastery when there is so little guidance available to actually learn it in-game.
This is a good point- I wonder if they'd be better served by having another route to get to the Spellmaking/Enchanting Altars- you're right I don't think most people even know that system exists and it's one of the coolest in Oblivion
Even not using custom spell making or enchantments you can buy weakness to elements/magicka spells, you can enchant a weapon/armor with sigil stones, and you can use found poisons to weaken enemies. As a pre-teen playing Oblivion when it came out, I really had no problems even being ignorant of deeper mechanics and having very inefficient builds/leveling. Also, custom spellmaking, and enchanting are outlined in the manual that comes with the game. As well are a lot of things people fundamentally misunderstand about Oblivion
I wasn't going to install Oblivion, give it a fresh coat of paint, leave the underlying systems intact, and play it AGAIN. But after binging your videos and actually understanding the systems now I think I'll do just that and actually enjoy it. Thanks for converting me away from min-max leveling.
Random thought watching the video commenting mostly for the algorithm: they should have had fellow members of the Thieves Guild give you rumors of really cool heists you can do for lots of money, set up a few mansions with a ton of good loot to sell and then not point you there except via rumors from Thieves in the Guild. That'd have been a fun mechanic.
It's alright IMO. Think I prefer it over Skyrim; actually swinging your weapon feels better. Animation is more satisfying somehow, I can't really describe it outside of vibes. Dodge rolling with high acrobatics and the amount of options you get with spells is great too.
You can dodge roll with 50 acrobatics if you hold the block button and hit the jump button in Oblivion. I will agree the animations are visually better in Skyrim, however I prefer the way you can equip things in oblivion. Sure you can dual wield in skyrim among other things and you have your shouts you can use but being able to equip an actual spell (not a shout with a cool down), a 1 handed weapon of your choice and a shield without having to sacrifice one or the other for a ranged spell to close in on your enemies, or run a close range spell or healing if you have your bow out or something similar with a 2 handed weapon. The concept results in more fluid combat in my opinion however the way it's implemented in Oblivion gives it the opposite result. Variety of spells is nicer too in skyrim but the limitations on how you can create spells and how they are utilized, enchanting and only being able to use 2 enchantments and even then only after a certain level and not being able to put certain things on armor anymore is a downgrade and results in less personality in a players creations in my opinion. Skyrim does a lot of things better but the limitations they implemented made combat feel clunkier especially when you get stuck in a finishing animation which are cool but get annoying after a while but that's my opinion.
It's the sound feedback and dummy physics . You really feels that hit. But skyrim your weapon just passes through the character and it feels irritating
@@baronobeefdipyes5181 Ah, I should clarify my comment. I prefer it OVER Skyrim, spells are better in Oblivion and the floaty oblivion animations somehow feels better than the heavy Skyrim animation. Spells look better in Skyrim but I like how they function more in Oblivion, being able to throw a lightning bolt with a warhammer out for example is nice for getting into or out of range. Good points overall, gotta agree on your stance on enchantments.
Not sure if you'll see this but I've been watching this channel silently for the past couple of months now and I just wanted to say it's really refreshing to see people cover Oblivion content and how the game functions. I learned a lot about the game that even I didn't know after playing it on and off since it came out. Keep up the good work, making me want to do another playthrough.
I think this comes down to the fact that there is not enough information presented so that those who cannot engage the game so much may also understand how it works For example, if the complete damage formula was presented better, or if the effects of attributes were clearly stated It is at once too simple to misunderstand and too obtuse to understand with an entertainment approach Regarding not using everything available, such as spellcrafting and casting, enchantment, repair etc should serve to aid roleplaying, not a requirement where every character should use everything (like skyrim eventually enforced for optimal play, while also lowering acceptable play, thus rendering both unrewarding) Oblivion is very different with alchemy and 85%armor rating than without it Tl dr if marksman skill clearly stated +1 damage every x level that might help a lot?
Look at combat from level design perspective. Those levels never supposed to have such combat (or other way around). And that's why it's not good. No space to strafe, piles of collidable objects everywhere, AI which can't find way in such environments. Usually in RPGs it fixed by having more abstract mechanics, like in Morrowind. It's almost same, but you characters blocks and dodges instead of you and it becomes more bearable.
I'd like to point out that Oblivion is bad at explaining its mechanics. Like feather, I only thought it was useful for weight and nothing else. Mortismo gaming is great at understanding some games with conplex mechanics like pathfinder wrath of the righteous. Attributes in Oblivion feel more important than they actually are. I did not know what fatigue did until a couple days ago.
@@UnbornHeretic it’s atrocious, absolutely awful. I still don’t fully understand stagger (I have a good grasp on it but I don’t know the specific numbers) and part of me deep down is convinced luck is giving me critical hits, even though it definitely is not. And this is after studying the game like it is my job Edited to add: like I said Mortismo actually gave a good retrospective, I brought him up as my example because I really like his content and I didn’t want to be rude. There are others I could mention and I would’ve devolved into trash talking, we don’t need that
with all these excellent Oblivion videos, you’ve got me addicted (for a bloody 4th time) to this treasure of a game..and i find it fitting that a math teacher would be so knowledgable about an rpg!
My biggest gripe with people when they compare Elder Scrolls game systems to each other is that they'll focus on the good of the game they prefer, and the bad of the game they don't like as much, and rarely ever do I see the vice-versa. You say that Skyrim's combat is bland because "everyone's a stealth archer, everyone's just trying to do more damage," but then you use weakness to magic as an example of dynamic combat. Well as soon as you get weakness to magic, you can immediately just cast it over and over again on almost ANY enemy in the game (because there's no limit to how much it will multiply off itself), cast a damage spell, enchant, whatever, and they die. Is that really more dynamic, that almost enemy can be killed this way now just because you unlocked spellcrafting? When it's Skyrim, the worst example of how op and sterile you can be in gameplay is always used (stealth archer). But with Oblivion and Morrowind? Oh you can cast weakness to magic and sanctuary and detect key and tick the 'always use best attack' box in your morrowind settings to completely ignore the incredibly engaging chop/thrustbutonlywhilemovingleft/twiddlethumbs melee combat "system." Ok rant over.
That’s fair, weakness stacking isn’t very engaging. I’ve actually never done stealth archer, just the three other builds (one handed, two handed, and mage) and I did not enjoy them. The issue isn’t that it’s bland because people are trying to do more damage, it’s that my level 1 character feels like my level 50 character but with more effective health and damage. Maybe I have a few more spell options, but really you are locked into using the ones that make sense for your level. Using flames at level 30 is a waste of time. My “paladin” that I showed in oblivion moves twice as fast as a new character, jumps about 3 times as high, can carry about 5x as many times, can cast spells to paralyze, restore fatigue, heal quickly, put a heal over time spell on my self, add to my carry weight, apply elemental weakness, and to move faster and jump higher. The limits to these things are my own creativity and the character is nowhere near max power. My level 50ish orc literally has 100 stamina, 100 magicka, normal carry weight, and just runs up power attacks with an absurdly strong weapon and I never can find a challenger, even dragons. Maybe that is MY fault in Skyrim, but I struggle to get out of that trap where my absurdly powerful character feels like a new character just with higher numbers because my Skyrim knowledge is more limited and it just makes sense to fall into that mold. Good insight though, we all have our biases, and I’m clearly pro-oblivion lol.
I feel like your description of Dark Souls combat is more true of Sekiro, or maybe a soul level 1 playthrough. You can make a ton of different builds and become stupidly powerful to the point where you don't need to be skilled in Dark Souls.
@@ArvelDreth good to know, I actually haven’t played much of any of them. I’ve heard really good things about Elden ring. Would you say that is more like an RPG where you don’t need to be “skilled” necessarily?
@@theoldknight85elden ring is complicated, really breaks when you summon little guys to fight for you (wolves or imps or whatever) you might have to watch a video on it. I’d suggest starting with Dark Souls 1 to get into the more RPG oriented souls games
@theoldknight85 It can feel very very difficult without much experience but there’s also a lot of ways to become powerful with little effort involved, it just involves game knowledge. I can make a new character and skip 3/4 of the game in maybe an hour. You can get your HP and damage negation numbers up to the point that it’s a lot easier. People meme on it but vigor/HP is really the only stat worth leveling until you start to get a better grasp of the game as it just equals more mistakes.
@@GreenEyedDazzler Not really true, Elden Ring is specifically designed to be played in many spaces with Spirit Ashes but people with fragile egos will deny any mechanic in the game is acceptable other than hitting things with a stick. Miyazaki himself said he plays with summons and uses everything at his disposal. Elden Ring is the most RPG oriented a Souls game has ever been. Frankly that's more the speed of @theoldknight85 who is all about using all of the mechanics in a game to beat fights and not needlessly restricting yourself from core mechanics.
The combat in oblivion is amazing. There is no other game that lets you leap through the air while firing a bow at your enemies in first person with real skill aiming. 10/10
With all do respect his video feels much more like a video on why spell crafting shouldn’t have been removed from elder scrolls more than it feels like a video on what makes oblivion combat good. In my opinion Oblivion combat is very boring and very spammy, charge attacks are near useless and combat on the whole ultimately doesn’t do anything worth meriting talking about. It doesn’t really give you any feeling of progression, it feels the same from beginning to end with the only exception being the spells you make and use to make it end faster. It’s fine obviously if you find nuance in it that others don’t see but ultimately people don’t gravitate to it for a reason same with Skyrim combat. On dark souls combat and rpg mechanics those games tie the rpg elements more into stats that let you use different gear and spells and do more damage with them. The other piece thing dark souls games do different is give weapons different movesets allowing gear to shine a lot more, a greatsword isn’t just a greatsword it’s a weapon with a potentially different move set and stat alignment than a similar sword(though later games in the series do have clone movesets for a few weapons but they usually still have stat differences that make them have some difference).ln the souls games as well gear isn’t tiered in any way, early game basic weapons are very good and usable all game with more niche and specialized weapons with differing being usable for people that wish to build around them later. These things allow give the souls series plenty of rpg progression and character expression and that’s without even mentioning armor weight and roll speeds effecting builds as well or the multitude of spells you can use to enhance your build.
I mostly just hated that goddamn stagger in Oblivion. They took the already overtuned Morrowind stagger and turned it up even further. Also, the game explains absolutely zero of the things you mentioned at the beginning
dark souls is a subversion of the rpg genre. there is no power fantasy in dark souls where your starting weapon (scimitar/longsword) is pretty much already top tier and there's no gearing. The rpg mechanics in dark souls simply serve as wallpaper around the action of the game. That is why running around naked with a curved sword is 100% a legit effective playstyle in dark souls, where in any actual rpg game you would be punished for it. Ironically, Elden Ring was the subversion of the dark souls formula where your ability to build your character and take advantage of rpg mechanics like modifier stacking matter far more than player skill.
It's definitely better than it's given credit for. It can be a lot of fun when you're fighting big groups because of the movement speed which allows you to skillfully dodge incoming attacks which isn't really true in the other games. Blocking always staggers melee attacks which is a really useful tactic.
Ive been enjoying watching these videos a lot! I havent played Oblivion in so long and your content is tempting me to play again even with possible remakes on the horizon....
You play games like an accountant. That's not a bad thing, just an observation, but it's very different from what the majority of people play videogames for. I don't even necessarily think that it's the spirit of RPGs. Most people play RPGs like they're heroes. They want to be the center of the action. That's where Dark Souls games shine in comparison-- They give you that opportunity to feel like a moment-to-moment conqueror, a hero. Also, Cyberpunk was *full* of combat. It has the closest pacing to an actual Cyberpunk tabletop campaign (much closer to the companion ruleset RED than 2020 but i digress) than any of the Elder Scrolls games do with traditional RPGs. If you don't like story in your roleplaying games, though, I can see why you wouldn't enjoy the amount of cutscenes in it. It's very experience-focused, more similar to the point above about feeling like the center of the story.
I like some story, but I’m more into world building and lore over specific characters, that is true. My issue with cyberpunk is that it sniffed its own farts too much. Obviously that’s just a subjective opinion and no shade to all the people who enjoyed it. Also, I do NOT play games like an accountant. I use spreadsheets to explain math of video games in my UA-cam videos, I do not open spreadsheets while playing or even to plan out a build. I do like doing lots of damage in combat based rpgs though, but I still think that is different from what you are saying.
Oblivion's melee combat systems are under appreciated. Oblivion has a two-way stagger system. Your character can stagger enemies, but enemies can also stagger your character. Makes melee combat feel both rewarding and punishing. Unfortunately this was replaced in Skyrim with a one-way stagger system. Your character can stagger enemies, but enemies cannot stagger your character. Sure, some attacks cause the screen to shake, but you are free to attack throughout. Not truly staggered. Weapon length as well as spacing play more of a role in Oblivion over Skyrim. Two handed weapons find a genuine use, as their length makes them useful at dealing damage while staying out of the range of enemies using one-handed weapons. The unique power attacks that are unlocked through leveling up blade and blunt are just great. My person favorite being the backwards power attack that can knock enemies off their feet. Assuming that Oblivion Remaster is truly on the way and they don't touch game mechanics, we all have a lot to look forward to in the future.
A lot of what you talk about here is building your character which I find distinct from combat. What I would consider the combat in oblivion is pretty light. Hit em with a weakness spell*3 then hit em with a spell. Block slash slash block slash slash *100. Enemy attacks are either close to undodgeable or molasses slow. Dodging ranged attacks is just spamming adadadadadad. You keep mentioning elemental weaknesses and I just don't consider that the least bit entertaining. Oh I hit the frost guy with the fire attack, enthralling.
@@lllIIlllI we can describe anything in the most boring way possible. Counter strike was point and click. Your speed, the specific enemy attack, and your distance from your enemy make some attacks easier/harder to dodge, and it is gradual, not “easy to doge or molasses slow.” In oblivion you have options from touch spells, target spells, bows, close range fast weapons with the best dps, claymores that let you keep enemies far away but attack slower and take absurd fatigue amounts, and more. There is a TON of variety, and it isn’t possible for me to list it all here due to custom spells and custom enchants. Hell, even what you said, is that weakness spell on touch or target? Does it last 4 seconds so you need to follow up quickly, or last longer but takes more magicka? It’s fine that you don’t like it, but your comment is very misleading about what oblivion combat is like.
@theoldknight85 You told him man. Almost as hard as when my boy once said, the six districts are arranged around the Palace like spokes of a wheel. Starting in the northeast, going clockwise, you have the Market, Arena, Arboretum, Temple, Talos Plaza, and Elven Gardens districts. The Waterfront is south of Temple District. The Arcane University is south of the Arboretum. The Imperial Prison is north of Market District.
@@theoldknight85You told him off like the six districts are arranged around the Palace like spokes of a wheel. Starting in the northeast, going clockwise, you have the Market, Arena, Arboretum, Temple, Talos Plaza, and Elven Gardens districts. The Waterfront is south of Temple District. The Arcane University is south of the Arboretum. The Imperial Prison is north of Market District.
It would seem like what you are craving is a real time crpg with action elements. And the move from rpg in favor of heavier action is what you don't like in dark souls, which is fine
Some people seem to also not understand how the level up system actually works or how to min/max. Granted it is tedious to get perfect +5s, but it's also very enjoyable at the same time. When I level up it feels earned.
I have a build very similar to your mage build, but your customs spells were much more efficient with your better knowledge of the underlying math. I am also an atronach so I have to use stones constantly. Also never knew about fatigue buffing or why I moved faster with feather active until I watched your videos.
I love your channel. You know I think it would be cool for you do to a ‘rate my build’ type series, where you look over peoples builds , see what they are going for and what play type they are aiming for, and potentially give optimisation tips etc.. any way, just wanted to say I like your videos 👍
Imo, the difference between Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim in combat can be generalized as a difference in Mechanical Depth and Feel. Mechanical Depth can be described as the actual game mechanics and how they function, and the player's ability to interact with them. Being able to perform multiple types of spells, being able to enchant your bow to do different types of damage, are typical examples of mechanical depth. Feel is harder to describe, and is subjective, but also pretty important. It's just how good it feels to do something in a game. It's the difference between watching your sword phase through someone, and watching, hearing, *feeling* it cleave some poor digital man's head from his shoulders. It's a combination of sound design, visuals, feedback, and even game mechanics. Morrowind has by far the most depth just by inclusion of the hit chance and spell chance systems. But, and I say this with around 400 hours in it, it doesn't feel particularly great. There's the obvious issue of people who don't know how to play just missing every swing with the starting dagger because they have a near 0 hit chance, but even if you're playing a powerful demigod, it doesn't feel great. Spells just kinda quietly make guys fall over. Swords pass right through targets with an indistinct smacking sound. It's unsatisfying. Skyrim, on the other hand, probably has the best Feel out of all of the TES games. Stealth Archery isn't just a main playstyle because it's powerful, but because it also feels good. The animations and sound effects for werewolves and vampire lords in particular can be quite nice and make two things that kinda suck mechanically still fun to play. But in Depth, well, there really isn't much, and it's incredibly disappointing with how little you can do and how limited you are. And compared to many dedicated action games, Skyrim's game feel is still pretty bad. Oblivion, though, is definitely in the middle of it all. With less mechanical depth than Morrowind (And sometimes worse off where it doesn't have that), but only mildly greater feel to it, it's, ehhh. It's hard to find anything very nice to say about it today. I think the highest compliment it could receive back in the day is that the physics engine was a massive, stunning improvement over Morrowind. Otherwise it's kind of in the middle, where it still feels really janky, and still has depth to it. Doesn't make it better or worse than any of the other TES games imo, but it definitely doesn't feel great to play for most people, which I think is important. Also Dark Souls is less about memorizing things and more about observation, positioning, and rhythm, varying depending on which of the souls games you specifically look at. 1 probably has the best balance between the three IMO. You can win most fights pretty reasonably on your first go around by just being very cautious. Observe what the boss does, where its combos will be hard for it to chain together, and then hug those spots while you sneak in hits here and there. Dark souls 3 and everything that came after, is much more akin to a rhythm game. You will not win by being cautious and observant. You need to know when to dodge roll and to be fairly aggressive. None of them really have meaningful RPG components though, at least not like Morrowind/Oblivion. The only impact builds really have is how quickly they damage enemies.
I can agree with you on dark souls to a degree, but there really is a big difference between DS1/DS2 combat and post Bloodborne fromsoft games in terms of things like game speed, enemy movesets, etc. I personally like the slower more methodical gameplay of DS1/2
i suggest trying Barony, it's a dungeon crawler roguelike so it has slightly less rpg elements, but it feels like the combat is similar enough to oblivion wherein it's less "skill" focused and more related to your build/spells/items
Oblivion was my first ES game as a kid and it really did capture my imagination similar in a way to how the Lord of the Rings did. I do agree that the combat does have a fun variety for build opportunities and is more enjoyable than Dark Souls' combat (which is really just an action game with rpg elements). Your vids have made me do a new playthrough with Maskar's overhaul. I do find the combat not as fun when compared to Morrowind or Daggerfall (which is my favourite), however, the progression is still enjoyable and I do find the constant exploration enthralling. Thanks for these vids. The going into the mechanics of rpgs and number crunching is one of my favourite parts of the genre. It's nice to see someone doing this for Oblivion.
Becoming one my favorite UA-camrs. I like how respectful you are about your disagreements with the broader community about the game's systems. Thanks for showing me the leveling system isn't trash. Not sure I was totally sold on that notion but I was leaning that way.
Not hard to tell that the interns were given charge at Bungee back then. Spartans average movement speed is faster than a baseline human at a dead-run, so giving them a sprint just seems redundant.
Ah, halo reach and oblivion. 2 great games that unfortunately set standards for the downfall of the gaming industry. (Halo reach stealing features from other games and oblivions horse armor forever changed the gaming landscape)
I think the problem with Oblivion combat, is that if you go for magic only, melee only, etc., then it gets boring. But if you are going to build like a stealth character that fights with melee, bow, and uses magic, you gonna have huge variety in combat. I play Morrowind now as Witchhunter, who uses melee, ranged, and enchanted items to cast spells. The combat is awesome actually if you play interesting character
I think Oblivion combat is underrated. The enemies can be hit spongy yeah, but the combat emphasizes resource management (gotta keep your fatigue high, you never wanna run out of that green juice)
Are you actually looking forward to a remake? I'd rather have them move away from the massive open World, tune down the randomization and levelling enemies and make a New game.
Ninja flips never uploads anymore but he has a HIGE playthrough where he plays on the highest difficulty and explains alllll the mechanics. Worth checking out his old vids tbh
The key issue with people enjoying or not enjoying the combat is the abstraction from player skill to character performance is done in ways that you wouldn't expect. Morrowind fatigue affects accuracy which is invisible to the player. Oblivion high base fatigue reduces the damage effect of increasing max fatigue which is invisible to the player. In morrowind items give you a ton of power and the enchantments on some items are equal to over 50 character level ups in power. In oblivion mostly all items in the game except trancendent sigil stones or about a dozen level 25 items give good power. It's not straightforward to wait to level 17 to do kvatch or 25 to do most overworld quests. IT's not explained to the player in any way what's good or what they can expect, and everything you expect like luck giving you crits or strength giving you meele damage is totally not what the player expects. Can you find out? Yes, but it's designed in a counterintuitive way.
I 100% agree with the combat and how Oblivion is definitely more so building your character up around attributes, skills, spells, alchemy, etc. I think you made a good point outside a small few things, "building" your character on skyrim is just leveling up the associated skill and your weapon slowly doing more damage that's basically it. Ignoring exploits on that game, it is indeed way more shallow than oblivion because there are more factors that play into your build. Oblivion your build starts even before you leave the imperial sewers. Picking your race, class, and birth stone all have a decent bit to them that at least make each play through feel different and that's not including a huge variety of unique things like custom spells, magic stones for powers/buffs, and I love how oblivion has lots of items that will give you passive buffs/bonuses just from holding onto them. I can't remember if skyrim has similar objects, but oblivion IMO has a much more solid foundation for builds because it's build around being a more conventional RPG while skyrim is in my opinion less so and more accessible (which is great of course, just different though)
In Oblivion there was variety and I felt the weight of each weapon. Blocking actually protected you, swinging and power attacks actually delivered what they intended. You could go back and forth with an enemy for a while and it was fairly engaging, especially stronger enemies like Daedra. The rationale about it being bad seems pretty shortsighted and nobody else has seems to have a better formula. Otherwise we’d see it in newer games. We could go back with Morrowind’s system, which people still hated, or use Skyrim’s model of holding M1 down until they dropped and being a stealth archer, which is the most shallow combat ever that put me to sleep.
I actually think it's pretty okay. I also play it on the side and just turned it off an hour ago. 😂 Some of the moves are quite funny to watch, but overall I think it's okay. I have a kind of "all-rounder" that I'm currently playing and he fights with a two-handed sword and without armor, I also have a lot of athleticism and acrobatics and can easily repair the weapons myself. if the sword breaks and I don't currently have any equipment with me, i turn into a boxer and let my fists speak. Destruction i also ramped up if weapons don't help. Plus those backflips and all that. 🤣😂 The only bad thing for me was that I had to swallow a lot of healing potions, especially in the early game. the recovery skill just takes way too long to skill and it's a grind until you're really good. I also found it funny how abruptly the music stopped when you took out an enemy. 😂 With my archer back then, the enemies would always fly away when I hit them with an arrow, and in Skyrim he always kicks these skulls completely away if I accidentally traipse over them. 🤣😂 I particularly like Morrowind for its selection of armor and subcategories, as well as magic. The combat is admittedly "a bit" strange to watch (😂) but I like the game as a whole too much to just focus on the combat. But I don't have a problem with it if it's just not for everyone. 😎😃👌🏻🤷🏼♂️
Now waiting for this man to try KCD just to talk about the combat cause it's one of the harder things about the game that made me keep going just to get better. Ofc the variety of magic ain't there for a good reason lmao.
Have you seen StratEdgy's "review" I think he is one of the few that understood Oblivion. Even if he played Unarmed for roleplaying he clearly states later on that its not a good weapon skills. He engages in a lot of mechanics and stuff, its really a joy to watch.
Which video? I would say that the one he did on Oblivion about four months ago is the best, entitled "Broken Games Are Better." That's the one where he finally unlocks the game's true potential. But the awesome things he discovers have already been pointed out by @theoldknight85 in other videos.
Oblivion has my favorite combat of the Elder Scrolls games mostly because of the ability to both dart quickly in and out of reach as well as manually block. Combat rhythm is very subjective though, and I do generally prefer enemy design in Morrowind as well as the ability to use a spear for greater reach (and thematically I just like spears).
I think when people look at oblivion combat they're sort of looking at it from the wrong perspective because "good" combat in action games is widely perceived as what's most realistic or flashy, which is what leads to comparisons with games like dark souls etc. But obviously that's not the only way in which combat in games can be good. Nobody would complain about the combat in a card game not being mechanically realistic for example. I think if people approached oblivion combat in a less conventional way and tried to appreciate it more for what it is (less about the actual mechanics of fighting and more about character build and what you're using to fight) then they wouldn't be so critical of it. I'm glad you brought up the dark souls example because it's unfair to say that the combat in dark souls is objectively better when dark souls and oblivion are clearly doing different things and so aren't really directly comparable. Anyway, love the vids dude, keep it up :)
The most fun I’ve had with the combat was with high speed, athletics, and acrobatics while jumping and running around zombies with on-touch fire spells
The main thing they are looking at really is melee combat because time and time again basic human fighter is what most people pick in RPGs so if that isn't done well then the game isn't seen as done well. It's much less about it being realistic as it is about it being dynamic and engaging. Oblivion is engaging and dynamic when you mix in spell effects and poison/potion effects but the melee options are quite lacking. Skyrim is most improved in making blocking much more reactive with the use of bashes and the slow time on block perk letting you fight with a much more active defense. It also makes spells more of a commitment since they take up a hand to cast and can't just be spammed from an offhand.
Oblivion was my first Elder Scrolls but it's still my favorite for a lot of the same reasons you've described. I also never really liked the Souls games either. I've never really been good at articulating my thoughts as to why that is but you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I'm curious to know if you've tried Dragon's Dogma. To me the game feels like a mid-point between Oblivion and the Souls genre. It does require some skill, but I don't think it's as demanding as the Souls games. And the game also offers much more dynamic gamplay and ways of getting through certain obstacles, at least once you're able to progress through the classes.
Dragon's Dogma has possibly the best magic gameplay mechanics I've ever experienced. The visual feedback + animations when casting spells is top notch. The spellcasting animations are seamlessly built in with the mechanics and require the player to approach combat with at least a bit of strategy when chaining spell effects. Combat pacing is much more pronounced in DD and really helps to make each class distinct.
I love in oblivion that the magic cast button is separate. Also the animation is cool if you're carrying a weapon. Skyrim and morrowind magic is so inferior to oblivion which is sad because morrowind has a deeper magic system sand skyrim is newer and should be better in that sense but isn't
Although i love morrowind and i like it better than oblivion i still love both and play them regularly, i 100% agree on not liking dark souls combat, it's some of the most janky stuff ever
yeah i love oblivions combat, i have also seen people say it's floaty, and what you're saying about morrowind it's almost like a dnd turn base type of thing, oblivion is 100% left up to the imagination of the player, which is perfect for a fantasy game, you don't have to show me how crazy my guy is, the floatyness to me is the "dnd"/"imagination" of it, if im playing a jumpy ninja character i want him swinging and dodging and shit, i don't need to see the animations on the screen because this is a rpg game i can use my imagination for some stuff, skyrims combat is more "realistic" i guess but is that what we want? because i don't think so, i don't expect the game devs to have to make an animation for everything which is the problem with skyrim, the ability to use 2 handed weapons efficiently and cast spells in oblivion is an example, if you need a hand to cast a spell just hold the weapon in one hand for a sec, whereas in skyrim it's very inefficent and annoying to switch because it's so slow and clunky.
You nailed it. People who mod Skyrim to oblivion (pun intended) actually lose a lot of potential for their imagination to kick in because they want "realism" or "immersion." More is actually less in these types of games because limitation generates creativity.
I never got to deep on creating spells so i will take your word on that but personally enjoyed the combat. I agree that skyrim felt disapointing compared to oblivion.
i respect your opinion. But you said you like morrowind and oblivion because they more about rpg, class building than souls games, but i can't share that sentiment. At least with Elden ring, rest souls game i dont remember alot. When it comes to rpg, atleast making builds sides of it, Elden ring rivals D&D like bg3 and surpass it. It had practically limitless variety of character Builds that you can roleplay(combatwise). It has ton of ways you can play the game from your usual stereotypical big dude with sword to most intricate and unique build imaginable. You can be monk that uses fist or legs(both option are here and variety of them), you can become wolverine, you can be mage with any sorts of styles, you can use summons, you can use strange item or weapon with unique combat moveset, you can rely on some strange mechanics, that not even weapon. Elden ring like has 300+ (with dlc more) weapons with unique animations, qualities and strenghts that you can base build around. Ton of weapons that can change everything about how you approach combat. Its not just big numbers, each weapon has unique traist and qualities. Sometimes they share type(but even then within type, each weapon could be game style changing and different animations), but often they completely unique without analogue with unique moveset. ITs just one of the most impressive feats i saw in games. Elden ring is very reminding D&D in how you can make build to your liking with truly tons of options. you can practically do almost any analogue build that D&D has or unique for elden ring. It's best action embodiment of D&D i saw and had similar build making component to it. If oblivion has 15 daedra weapons, Elden ring had like 150 daedric weapons and probably much more. To put it in perspective
in Skyrim the quests are also way more boring imo like with Oblivion there's at least 10 different quests I can think of off the top of my head that I really enjoy every time I play, and that's not even including the Knights of the Nine, Thieve's Guild or Dark Brotherhood quests (the Fighter's Guild questline is just a chore imo) while in Skyrim there's Dawnguard and that's basically it, and even then Serana hard carries that whole questline although I think a large part of that is the voice acting generally being way more stale in Skyrim than Oblivion and with Dark Souls I definitely agree on the bosses and to a pretty big extent with the builds but a lot of that has to do with how they changed how poise works between games, arguably for the worse, along with magic generally being some form of OP in 1 it's very reliable and you can make a pretty solid tank build while in 2 and especially 3 they made basically every physical based build work basically the same way, not to mention at least one of the magic schools being stupidly overpowered in each one (sorceries in 1, hex magics in 2, faith in 3, etc.) it's still arguably a problem in Bloodborne and Nioh 2 but I like those games way more because they actually encourage fast, aggressive play and both have mechanics designed to take advantage of parries, and especially in Nioh 2 there's a surprising amount of depth to the combat and the bosses are way more varied
I watched a BG1 and BG2 review by mortismal gaming and it pissed me off how he understood virtually nothing about the game or story but still had the audacity to claim he "100%" completed the game despite playing on story mode and only playing a single character class. He missed key details that are explained multiple times throughout the games, sometimes saying something that is literally contradicted or explained by the character dialogue he has displayed on screen while he is saying them. Sorry, had to rant.
Just some feedback, I’d prefer if you didn’t pause in the middle of an explanation to comment on the gameplay footage, it’s just superfluous, and a lot of people like me will just listen to these videos for audio, so just keep it direct and scripted (or unscripted if that’s what you prefer) but the gameplay commentary is unnecessary imo
Thanks for the feedback. This one was definitely more off the cuff and not scripted. I’m not able to play and really keep my thoughts straight while playing, my videos without gameplay footage are definitely more what you are looking for. I’ll try to keep a good balance, after rewatching this i definitely get distracted and off topic too easily
Never lose sleep when people say Oblivion isn't realistic. Do you mean the art style wasn't a clue that you weren't sitting down for a dose of gritty realism? Look at the orcs, ffs! If you want more realism, you probably play something like Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Besides, the same people who blather on about realism will swim across Niben Bay in plate armor. It would be funny if future Elder Scrolls games made people in plate walk across the bottom of a lake or river, like what happens if you're in power armor in Fallout 4. Although I seem to recall enjoying the combat in Skyrim more, I haven't played that one in almost 8 years and I used mods like Wildcat, so I can't really say if the vanilla system was better or worse. Magic was worse in Skyrim, and that was a nice change from the absolutely bananas brokenness of magic in the two games which preceded it. The stealth archer was my first character in Daggerfall, Morrowind, & Oblivion. That is to say I received a healthy beat-down in my first outing in those games. Skyrim was the first time when it seemed like a person was rewarded for not just waving their fingers & shooting magic juice.
Magic being worse in Skyrim is a nice change from the previous ES games? I don't understand that logic. The so-called "brokenness" of the magic system in the two games before Skyrim has more to do with people misunderstanding how to creatively use the tools in said magic system.
@@josephpercy1558 No problem. I'll try to break it down. I'm someone who doesn't enjoy playing mages or being goaded in that direction because of the shortcomings of the mundane means of attack. It was nice to see the OP token fall somewhere other than in the hands of mages for once. Its a problem with how the games are coded. Hit locations aren't important, for one thing. As a player's damage potential skyrockets with mastery of magic, so should their ability to say, put an arrow through the throat of a mage before he begins to speak. The previous games are broken through no fault of the players. It was bad coding which allows infinite intelligence & mana in Morrowind or which allows the insane stacking of weakness spells in Oblivion. The power granted by magic isn't restricted in a meaningful way depending on things like armor worn. The open nature of the game & character creation means anyone can spec into anything if they have the patience & coin required. DLC tends to make the problem worse. You're $10.99 away from having access to a spellmaking altar regardless of your rank or membership status in the guild. Anyone playing Morrowind today will have the second best light armor in the game handed to them for free if they have Tribunal installed. The only thing to do after that is to replace it with glass armor pieces or artifacts as you explore. Its like being able to plant & harvest jarrin root in Skyrim with its ridiculously strong poison. The developers didn't have the foresight to see how the systems could be warped. Bad game design is why guys like Spiff can have their own channels. Bethesda game worlds tend to have a lot of attention poured into them. Bethesda game character classes? Not so much.
@@Mr._Anderpson ["As a player's damage potential skyrockets with mastery of magic, so should their ability to say, put an arrow through the throat of a mage before he begins to speak."] That's a bit shortsighted to say, because a mage's abilities are much more than dealing damage. It's a bad comparison. Real mage power comes through AoE control, not raw damage. ["The power granted by magic isn't restricted in a meaningful way depending on things like armor worn."] That's a confusing claim in which you're going to have to bring more context. In Oblivion, at least, magic-casting efficiency is indeed meaningfully restricted by the types/amount of armor worn. ["You're $10.99 away from having access to a spellmaking altar regardless of your rank or membership status in the guild."] Please expand on this claim. Yes, I'm aware of Frostcrag Spire, but this DLC is an afterthought. Xbox players can't access it because the Microsoft store pulled it from sales, anyway. As for Morrowind, I agree -- but base game Oblivion did improve upon these shortcomings, i.e. access to high tier armor or very early spellmaking. But these game worlds are open-ended on purpose, because in roleplaying the player intentionally places limits on the character within the world. It's about using your imagination versus the developers constantly having to worry about fixing game world imbalances. The player is the one that, again, ought to be balancing and restricting his playthroughs. Skyrim, therefore, is a step in the wrong direction, as the developers consciously tried to limit and "balance" its magic system -- leading to a dull, tedious and apathetic experience for mages.
@@josephpercy1558 My reply disappeared. How odd, considering none of the tripwires which summon the machine elves were used. Buddy, you asked me why I would prefer seeing mages nerfed and I responded. I won't take it further because rather than accept that someone else might see something from another perspective, you want to argue. You can do that without me and you'll find no shortage of people online who will indulge you. We have differing perspectives & are at an impasse. You see a slight percentage variation in spell effectiveness as a meaningful restriction to magic. I do not. You see it as the responsibility of the player to restrict themselves to make up for the lack of foresight on the part of the game devs. I do not. Its ok to see things differently. Take it easy.
@@josephpercy1558 Third attempt at a reply. How odd, considering none of the tripwires which summon the machine elves were used. Buddy, you asked me why I would prefer seeing mages being reined in and I responded. I won't take it further because rather than accept that someone else might see something from another perspective, you want to argue. You can do that without me and you'll find no shortage of people online who will indulge you. Besides, for whatever reason I have to respond multiple times before one response "sticks". It isn't worth the time. We have differing perspectives & are at an impasse. You see a slight percentage variation in spell effectiveness as a meaningful restriction to magic. I do not. You see it as the responsibility of the player to restrict themselves to make up for the lack of foresight on the part of the game devs. I do not. Its ok to see things differently. Take it easy.
I think I just "hate watch" you at this point. I enjoy your content, but I disagree on almost everything you say outside of objective data you show. I don't even really like Oblivion; it's always been my least favorite modern Elder scrolls game but your deep knowledge of it is fascinating.
Honestly, I didn't pick up Oblivion because of its combat. I picked it up because I wanted to experience the story. and after playing the game for a long time, I can say that it doesn't hold itself against the test of time. combat wise, it sucks, and graphics are bad even for the period it was released. Oblivion combat is at its basic, a hack and slash or a point and click. at its most complex, is just math with very messed up formulas. learning how the combat works in oblivion is less skill and more figuring out what those formulas are and how to use them in your favor. this is messed up enough as it is but then its exacerbated by Oblivion's messed up leveling system, and even more exacerbated by the enemies scaling up with your level. Once you get that out of the way, learn how to level up efficiently and learn the correct formulas to increase your damage, the story holds up pretty decently, is not THE best story to ever be told, its quantity over quality in most areas, but its not bad. that said, oblivion isn't a story driven game, and we all know it, its a combat driven one, Oblivion tries to use the combat as a tool to carry the story and doesn't do a very good job. But at least Oblivion's combat is better than Morrowinds one thing you said about morrowind's combat system was that it felt like it was turn based. I Would like to describe Morrowind's combat as a mix of Hack and slash + dice roller. let me give an example. In world of warcraft, you click on an enemy to attack, and then the system does a bunch of math, taking into consideration, your weapon expertise, your level, you weapon skill, etc. against your enemie's dodge %, your enemies level, etc. in order to decide whether your attack is hit or miss. a hack and slash is like skyrim, you point your cursor at an enemy, press a click, your weapon swings from side to side and if you're within range, congratulations, you hit your enemy. Morrowind, tries to fuse these two systems and it does the WORSE job at it. You need to aim your attacks at the enemy, then the system does a bunch of math taking into considerations a bunch of yours and your enemies stats and then decides whether you hit or miss. this leads to having to click 9 thousand times only to miss 90% of the time because your small weapon's skill is low. Thank god they got rid of this shit in oblivion because OMG this shit is insane, Im amazed some bozo at bethesda thought it was a good idea and decided to include it in morrowind. but hey, live and learn, right? except literally nobody else in the whole world used this kind of system, and it must be for a reason.
I totally agree, skyrim has only ever been fun for me with a ton of mods. It comes down to combat and the minimal level up choices. I keep wondering if bethesda will go back to an attribute system because of the success of bg3.
How is oblivion's levelling up better when all you choose is what attributes you wanna increase? The old knight even showed that those attributes don't matter that much. In Skyrim you can level up a stat in addition to perks. Oblivion doesn't give you choices of perks of a skill and its way fewer perks to be gained.
@@ashmonkey2572 I just prefer more classic roleplaying elements like attributes. To be perfectly honest I think Fallout 4 has the most fun level up system despite the rest of that games flaws.
@@nekrospect2940 Fallout 4 has a lot of perks that really influence the gameplay. I agree it's great in that way. Other than that i too didn't like Fallout 4.
@@ashmonkey2572 I disagree. Skyrim is a watered-down version of Oblivion/Morrowind. Perks are more like randomized percentage increases, and the rest are just flat increases in the health, magicka and stamina bars. Oblivion/Morrowind is way more integrated by how so many other factors influence health, magicka and stamina (fatigue).
The game plays like doom eternal, very fast paced with lots of switching between weapons and magic, the omnidirectional movement is what is most fun to me
I see way more praise for skyblivion than it deserves, and i can say for a fact that the official remake will be better. The reason is mainly because Skyrim's combat is awful compared to oblivion, so having better graphics while still having the gameplay and rpg elements intact will be a major advantage over skyblivion. When i play oblivion, i like to grind my character first, before i do any of the quests. The reason is because i like playing the quests without needing to level up or get new gear. I like to properly level up. By getting my attributes to 100 by level 26, except for personality and luck. I find it useless to increase these since you can just cast a luck spell and use luck enchanted clothing, and same for personality. Or you can just use a charm spell. I stop leveling after 26, since that's when the last enemy type spawns and leveling only becomes detrimental after that, since enemy scaling is unbalanced. I don't use bows in oblivion, instead I just stick to close range combat, and i use a spell that drains enemy health by 100 along with as much damage as i can get from each element before it becomes too expensive to cast if i need to eliminate a target from range. My main damage comes from combining spells, or combining a spell of weakness to all magic and elements with goldbrand. For very tanky enemies i cast a weakness spell on them a couple times, since the effect stacks, and then i use a damage spell. I like to spread the damage evenly between elements since it's more efficient and uses less magic. Having a spell that does 50 frost and 50 fire damage costs less magic than a spell that does 100 fire damage. You can also reduce the costs even further by lowering the damage, but adding a second to the spell effect. As for Skyrim's spell system, it is very basic in comparison to oblivion, and many mechanics in skyrim are easily abused. For example, i can infinitely stun lock an enemy by using the shield sprint to knock them down. Or i can keep a target paralysed for no magical cost, with 25% less cost for alteration spells on 4 clothing items. Oblivion requires glitches to abuse, so you can't '"legitimately" break the game. The dupe glitch will probably be patched in the remake too.
Cyberpunk2077 is just a generic shooter, its "rpg elements" are not even on par with gacha shooters like The First Descendant. Also theres this zoomer I seen play Oblivion and Morrowind asking his chat every 3 seconds "wheres the sprint button? " 🤣
Morrowinds combat is very tactical i guess is the word, Skyrims is straight braindead, oblivion has always felt like a good place for the "Bethesda combat" style
hmmm.....interesting, for me dark souls is better because I like the fact that I do not have to set up my character to beat almost anyboss in the game, i can do it with a club a buttnaked, just based on the skill and memorising and predicting the enemies attacks pattern.
The light enchantment during a stealth mission is 10/10
Added difficulty
@@AleksoLaĈevalo999 call it a handicap for the mobs.
The problem with Skyrim is you can't cast spells with weapons equipped. I have to put my sword away then re-equip which takes precious seconds away.
it's also just really immersion breaking to have to swap back and forth. I find in skyrim more than any of the games most combat encounters require you to pause the game and open up some menu.
I disagree, personally I liked that there was a melee/magic stance like in Morrowind, it made mage characters feel a lot more special. As opposed to Oblivion where you can cast, block, and attack all at the same time
Big dark souls fan but I do agree with you to a certain extent, ultimately all the "RPG" of Dark Souls is make bigger number and playing as a level one character is essentially just a more annoying version of playing a level 100 character rather than an actual limitation. Still love it because I also enjoy the itch of the moveset learning action hack and slash but it's just completely different from a more full featured RPG.
There’s just something about holding the Claymore / Zweihänder and knowing you could kill god with it
Yeah, I love Dark Souls but it is an action game first and foremost with the RPG mechanics much more sidelined
Honestly, calling dark souls an RPG is a misnomer. it's basically just a system to allow you to experience the playstyle you want. You don't do any actual roleplaying, your build has no long lasting impact in fact ds2, 3, bloodborne and Elden ring even encourage respeccing your build if you dont like it anymore.
it's an action game with slight RPG mechanics put on top. What I like about the souls games is the mechanics of the combat flow itself tho, knowing your range and your enemy's range, waiting for gaps to be open to deal damage if you can't stagger them, or trying to stagger them as often as possible. using your defensive options correctly also is half the fight, can you parry the enemy, can you block the enemy, how easy is it dodge rolling them. Ds1 and DS2 were both slow and a bit clunky regarding that, so you had to use your stamina tactically even when you were at very high levels. DS3 and Elden Ring give you more dodge rolls to have a more fast paced feeling, but you still cannot use your stamina all that willy nilly.
Meanwhile all 3 modern elder scrolls games are Faux Action games with varying amounts RPG elements in them.
I only played dark souls for PVP. It was multiplayer first and RPG second.
@@nickoliekeyov746Slaymore with the Claymore.
Yeah this comment checks out forsure.
I think Skyrim has a great combat system that is undercut by the game's fetish with crafting. With crafting skills the game does become a numbers race with little strategy or tactics to it but without them when enemies are on a more even playing field with you, there is somewhat of a good system in place with a somewhat deep stagger system the player can intentionally manipulate to create stagger chains (power attack -> swing -> shout -> swing -> power attack for example) which feels interactive and engaging to play with, but if you're playing the game on normal difficulty you'll never notice this.
Skyrim's spells are at least good design-wise because each of them have a unique effect. For example the three Adept level spells in Destruction work completely differently, with fire getting a standard AoE fireball spell, frost getting a shorter ranged whirlwind type effect, and lightning getting a chain lightning effect. These are distinct from each other in interesting ways and another unseen effect of these spells is that frost spells slow targets and drain fatigue (thus potentially stopping enemy power attacks with an ice cloak) or drain magicka with shock spells to shut down enemy mages (the same happens to you as a mage).
The game also features Calm, Frenzy, Fear, and Paralysis effects for crowd control too, and Turn Undead effects for Restoration.
So while Oblivion's combat system is better than people give it credit for, Skyrim's is also better than people give it credit for too imo
Yea true & there's a Mod , Av Latta Magicka that funnily enough adds those perks to Oblivion's elemental spells maybe inspired by Skyrim . The mods can add quite a lot of features/systems .
Paralysis is the only combat effect in its entire tree, and you lose the ability you had since *Daggerfall* to do things like turn the spells into an AoE, or adjust the timing to make it more powerful, or better yet, add damage over time to it.
And that's just how much was lost from one spell.
The movement and swing speed in Oblivion is so fluid compared to Skyrim.
This is basically just a long way of saying "spell making should have never been removed" which I agree with but that is entirely separate from the core combat. I also think people referring to combat are specifically referring to melee combat where Oblivion is lacking. Al of the truly meaningful decision points in a fight are about what spells or magic to use, not what sort of fighting techniques or attacks. Usually you just want to attack as quickly as possible.
People talk up games like Dark Souls (which is much more of an action adventure title than a "live another life" simulator like a TES title) for their combat mostly because they focus on melee fighting and each weapon has a unique moveset and a lot of different types of attacks that all feel different to use. TES games need to bring back having the slash/thrust/chop dynamic and expand on it with different attacks having truly different attack properties and different weapons having different movesets to really expand on melee and give you choices of how to play rather than everything being some version of mage (I say this as someone who always plays a wizard or wizard type character in RPGs). The average person picks a human fighter type and uses little if any magic, so if that playstyle isn't supported the combat will feel much worse to them.
For what it's worth, Skyrim's melee weapons don't feel that much better than Oblivion but the blocking does feel a lot better and I think that plays a big roll in making combat feel more dynamic since you can use bashes to stun enemies out of attacks/do a sort of "parry" on reaction, and the slow time block move lets you do some dodging more effectively. These go a long way to making the fight feel like it's more of a fight as opposed to just trying to get off an optimal rotation of abilities like an MMO raid.
and yet skyrim is still only a faux action game because ultimately you are just engaging in noodle slap fights. the added options of directional power attacks, bashing, timed block etc add a certain dynamic system to the game, but what really matters is your numbers. This is why people have been so quick to completely mod the core combat experience into making it different games that are more action oriented, as opposed to oblivion or morrowind, where you don't really see all that many combat overhaul mods that are as change inducing as with skyrim.
@@keinkanal7382 The most common change I hear people talk about making in Morrowind is removing the to-hit chance, which borks the game imho. As far as noodle slaps go, Oblivion is the same. Swing a sword against a goblin and you'll hear the metallic slice sound and the goblin will yelp but usually stand there.
Making interesting combat has never been Bethesda's strong suit. So branching off into magic to eliminate enemies faster is a natural progression to stave off the boring nature of TES combat.
I think the average casual gamer barely dips their toe in the custom spell rabbithole and gain a comprehensive understanding of the underlying mechanics of every spell effect and how they interact and combine with every system in Oblivion. Just try playing Oblivion without using the enchanting altar or spellmaking altars until level 20-30 without a build with magic specialization and destruction or restoration as major skills to get a better sense of where the casuals are coming from. Custom spells and enchants enable god-mode if you know what you're doing, completely flipping the table in terms of balance.
If you want to get schooled on Skyrim's combat, watch Poor Man's Productions.
I think a lot of dedicated gamers mistake “rewarding knowledge” for “punishing ignorance”. It’s a good thing for a game to reward higher system mastery, but it’s a bad thing for a game to punish players for not having system mastery when there is so little guidance available to actually learn it in-game.
This is a good point- I wonder if they'd be better served by having another route to get to the Spellmaking/Enchanting Altars- you're right I don't think most people even know that system exists and it's one of the coolest in Oblivion
Even not using custom spell making or enchantments you can buy weakness to elements/magicka spells, you can enchant a weapon/armor with sigil stones, and you can use found poisons to weaken enemies. As a pre-teen playing Oblivion when it came out, I really had no problems even being ignorant of deeper mechanics and having very inefficient builds/leveling.
Also, custom spellmaking, and enchanting are outlined in the manual that comes with the game. As well are a lot of things people fundamentally misunderstand about Oblivion
I wasn't going to install Oblivion, give it a fresh coat of paint, leave the underlying systems intact, and play it AGAIN. But after binging your videos and actually understanding the systems now I think I'll do just that and actually enjoy it. Thanks for converting me away from min-max leveling.
Hella true that most videos don’t dive into combat at all. Thank you so much tbh
Random thought watching the video commenting mostly for the algorithm: they should have had fellow members of the Thieves Guild give you rumors of really cool heists you can do for lots of money, set up a few mansions with a ton of good loot to sell and then not point you there except via rumors from Thieves in the Guild. That'd have been a fun mechanic.
"When he came out the sewers" - YOUNG SCROLLS
It's alright IMO. Think I prefer it over Skyrim; actually swinging your weapon feels better. Animation is more satisfying somehow, I can't really describe it outside of vibes. Dodge rolling with high acrobatics and the amount of options you get with spells is great too.
You can dodge roll with 50 acrobatics if you hold the block button and hit the jump button in Oblivion. I will agree the animations are visually better in Skyrim, however I prefer the way you can equip things in oblivion. Sure you can dual wield in skyrim among other things and you have your shouts you can use but being able to equip an actual spell (not a shout with a cool down), a 1 handed weapon of your choice and a shield without having to sacrifice one or the other for a ranged spell to close in on your enemies, or run a close range spell or healing if you have your bow out or something similar with a 2 handed weapon. The concept results in more fluid combat in my opinion however the way it's implemented in Oblivion gives it the opposite result. Variety of spells is nicer too in skyrim but the limitations on how you can create spells and how they are utilized, enchanting and only being able to use 2 enchantments and even then only after a certain level and not being able to put certain things on armor anymore is a downgrade and results in less personality in a players creations in my opinion. Skyrim does a lot of things better but the limitations they implemented made combat feel clunkier especially when you get stuck in a finishing animation which are cool but get annoying after a while but that's my opinion.
It's the sound feedback and dummy physics . You really feels that hit. But skyrim your weapon just passes through the character and it feels irritating
@@baronobeefdipyes5181 Ah, I should clarify my comment. I prefer it OVER Skyrim, spells are better in Oblivion and the floaty oblivion animations somehow feels better than the heavy Skyrim animation. Spells look better in Skyrim but I like how they function more in Oblivion, being able to throw a lightning bolt with a warhammer out for example is nice for getting into or out of range. Good points overall, gotta agree on your stance on enchantments.
Not sure if you'll see this but I've been watching this channel silently for the past couple of months now and I just wanted to say it's really refreshing to see people cover Oblivion content and how the game functions. I learned a lot about the game that even I didn't know after playing it on and off since it came out. Keep up the good work, making me want to do another playthrough.
I think this comes down to the fact that there is not enough information presented so that those who cannot engage the game so much may also understand how it works
For example, if the complete damage formula was presented better, or if the effects of attributes were clearly stated
It is at once too simple to misunderstand and too obtuse to understand with an entertainment approach
Regarding not using everything available, such as spellcrafting and casting, enchantment, repair etc should serve to aid roleplaying, not a requirement where every character should use everything (like skyrim eventually enforced for optimal play, while also lowering acceptable play, thus rendering both unrewarding)
Oblivion is very different with alchemy and 85%armor rating than without it
Tl dr if marksman skill clearly stated +1 damage every x level that might help a lot?
Look at combat from level design perspective. Those levels never supposed to have such combat (or other way around). And that's why it's not good. No space to strafe, piles of collidable objects everywhere, AI which can't find way in such environments.
Usually in RPGs it fixed by having more abstract mechanics, like in Morrowind. It's almost same, but you characters blocks and dodges instead of you and it becomes more bearable.
I'd like to point out that Oblivion is bad at explaining its mechanics. Like feather, I only thought it was useful for weight and nothing else.
Mortismo gaming is great at understanding some games with conplex mechanics like pathfinder wrath of the righteous. Attributes in Oblivion feel more important than they actually are. I did not know what fatigue did until a couple days ago.
@@UnbornHeretic it’s atrocious, absolutely awful. I still don’t fully understand stagger (I have a good grasp on it but I don’t know the specific numbers) and part of me deep down is convinced luck is giving me critical hits, even though it definitely is not.
And this is after studying the game like it is my job
Edited to add: like I said Mortismo actually gave a good retrospective, I brought him up as my example because I really like his content and I didn’t want to be rude. There are others I could mention and I would’ve devolved into trash talking, we don’t need that
with all these excellent Oblivion videos, you’ve got me addicted (for a bloody 4th time) to this treasure of a game..and i find it fitting that a math teacher would be so knowledgable about an rpg!
My biggest gripe with people when they compare Elder Scrolls game systems to each other is that they'll focus on the good of the game they prefer, and the bad of the game they don't like as much, and rarely ever do I see the vice-versa. You say that Skyrim's combat is bland because "everyone's a stealth archer, everyone's just trying to do more damage," but then you use weakness to magic as an example of dynamic combat. Well as soon as you get weakness to magic, you can immediately just cast it over and over again on almost ANY enemy in the game (because there's no limit to how much it will multiply off itself), cast a damage spell, enchant, whatever, and they die. Is that really more dynamic, that almost enemy can be killed this way now just because you unlocked spellcrafting?
When it's Skyrim, the worst example of how op and sterile you can be in gameplay is always used (stealth archer). But with Oblivion and Morrowind? Oh you can cast weakness to magic and sanctuary and detect key and tick the 'always use best attack' box in your morrowind settings to completely ignore the incredibly engaging chop/thrustbutonlywhilemovingleft/twiddlethumbs melee combat "system."
Ok rant over.
That’s fair, weakness stacking isn’t very engaging. I’ve actually never done stealth archer, just the three other builds (one handed, two handed, and mage) and I did not enjoy them.
The issue isn’t that it’s bland because people are trying to do more damage, it’s that my level 1 character feels like my level 50 character but with more effective health and damage. Maybe I have a few more spell options, but really you are locked into using the ones that make sense for your level. Using flames at level 30 is a waste of time.
My “paladin” that I showed in oblivion moves twice as fast as a new character, jumps about 3 times as high, can carry about 5x as many times, can cast spells to paralyze, restore fatigue, heal quickly, put a heal over time spell on my self, add to my carry weight, apply elemental weakness, and to move faster and jump higher. The limits to these things are my own creativity and the character is nowhere near max power.
My level 50ish orc literally has 100 stamina, 100 magicka, normal carry weight, and just runs up power attacks with an absurdly strong weapon and I never can find a challenger, even dragons.
Maybe that is MY fault in Skyrim, but I struggle to get out of that trap where my absurdly powerful character feels like a new character just with higher numbers because my Skyrim knowledge is more limited and it just makes sense to fall into that mold.
Good insight though, we all have our biases, and I’m clearly pro-oblivion lol.
I feel like your description of Dark Souls combat is more true of Sekiro, or maybe a soul level 1 playthrough. You can make a ton of different builds and become stupidly powerful to the point where you don't need to be skilled in Dark Souls.
@@ArvelDreth good to know, I actually haven’t played much of any of them. I’ve heard really good things about Elden ring. Would you say that is more like an RPG where you don’t need to be “skilled” necessarily?
@@theoldknight85elden ring is complicated, really breaks when you summon little guys to fight for you (wolves or imps or whatever) you might have to watch a video on it. I’d suggest starting with Dark Souls 1 to get into the more RPG oriented souls games
I also prefer morrowinds combat and progression to dark souls though 😂
@theoldknight85
It can feel very very difficult without much experience but there’s also a lot of ways to become powerful with little effort involved, it just involves game knowledge. I can make a new character and skip 3/4 of the game in maybe an hour. You can get your HP and damage negation numbers up to the point that it’s a lot easier. People meme on it but vigor/HP is really the only stat worth leveling until you start to get a better grasp of the game as it just equals more mistakes.
@@GreenEyedDazzler Not really true, Elden Ring is specifically designed to be played in many spaces with Spirit Ashes but people with fragile egos will deny any mechanic in the game is acceptable other than hitting things with a stick. Miyazaki himself said he plays with summons and uses everything at his disposal. Elden Ring is the most RPG oriented a Souls game has ever been. Frankly that's more the speed of @theoldknight85 who is all about using all of the mechanics in a game to beat fights and not needlessly restricting yourself from core mechanics.
The combat in oblivion is amazing. There is no other game that lets you leap through the air while firing a bow at your enemies in first person with real skill aiming. 10/10
With all do respect his video feels much more like a video on why spell crafting shouldn’t have been removed from elder scrolls more than it feels like a video on what makes oblivion combat good. In my opinion Oblivion combat is very boring and very spammy, charge attacks are near useless and combat on the whole ultimately doesn’t do anything worth meriting talking about. It doesn’t really give you any feeling of progression, it feels the same from beginning to end with the only exception being the spells you make and use to make it end faster. It’s fine obviously if you find nuance in it that others don’t see but ultimately people don’t gravitate to it for a reason same with Skyrim combat.
On dark souls combat and rpg mechanics those games tie the rpg elements more into stats that let you use different gear and spells and do more damage with them. The other piece thing dark souls games do different is give weapons different movesets allowing gear to shine a lot more, a greatsword isn’t just a greatsword it’s a weapon with a potentially different move set and stat alignment than a similar sword(though later games in the series do have clone movesets for a few weapons but they usually still have stat differences that make them have some difference).ln the souls games as well gear isn’t tiered in any way, early game basic weapons are very good and usable all game with more niche and specialized weapons with differing being usable for people that wish to build around them later. These things allow give the souls series plenty of rpg progression and character expression and that’s without even mentioning armor weight and roll speeds effecting builds as well or the multitude of spells you can use to enhance your build.
I mostly just hated that goddamn stagger in Oblivion. They took the already overtuned Morrowind stagger and turned it up even further. Also, the game explains absolutely zero of the things you mentioned at the beginning
Yeah, the game does it's best to obfuscate and hide it's systems from the player.
I love these talks about mechanics. So glad I found your channel.
dark souls is a subversion of the rpg genre. there is no power fantasy in dark souls where your starting weapon (scimitar/longsword) is pretty much already top tier and there's no gearing. The rpg mechanics in dark souls simply serve as wallpaper around the action of the game. That is why running around naked with a curved sword is 100% a legit effective playstyle in dark souls, where in any actual rpg game you would be punished for it. Ironically, Elden Ring was the subversion of the dark souls formula where your ability to build your character and take advantage of rpg mechanics like modifier stacking matter far more than player skill.
It's definitely better than it's given credit for. It can be a lot of fun when you're fighting big groups because of the movement speed which allows you to skillfully dodge incoming attacks which isn't really true in the other games. Blocking always staggers melee attacks which is a really useful tactic.
Ive been enjoying watching these videos a lot! I havent played Oblivion in so long and your content is tempting me to play again even with possible remakes on the horizon....
You play games like an accountant.
That's not a bad thing, just an observation, but it's very different from what the majority of people play videogames for. I don't even necessarily think that it's the spirit of RPGs.
Most people play RPGs like they're heroes. They want to be the center of the action. That's where Dark Souls games shine in comparison-- They give you that opportunity to feel like a moment-to-moment conqueror, a hero.
Also, Cyberpunk was *full* of combat. It has the closest pacing to an actual Cyberpunk tabletop campaign (much closer to the companion ruleset RED than 2020 but i digress) than any of the Elder Scrolls games do with traditional RPGs. If you don't like story in your roleplaying games, though, I can see why you wouldn't enjoy the amount of cutscenes in it. It's very experience-focused, more similar to the point above about feeling like the center of the story.
I like some story, but I’m more into world building and lore over specific characters, that is true.
My issue with cyberpunk is that it sniffed its own farts too much. Obviously that’s just a subjective opinion and no shade to all the people who enjoyed it.
Also, I do NOT play games like an accountant. I use spreadsheets to explain math of video games in my UA-cam videos, I do not open spreadsheets while playing or even to plan out a build. I do like doing lots of damage in combat based rpgs though, but I still think that is different from what you are saying.
@@theoldknight85i love cyberpunk my only gripe with it is that it tries way too hard to make you feel bad for picking the "bad" endings.
Oblivion's melee combat systems are under appreciated.
Oblivion has a two-way stagger system. Your character can stagger enemies, but enemies can also stagger your character. Makes melee combat feel both rewarding and punishing.
Unfortunately this was replaced in Skyrim with a one-way stagger system. Your character can stagger enemies, but enemies cannot stagger your character. Sure, some attacks cause the screen to shake, but you are free to attack throughout. Not truly staggered.
Weapon length as well as spacing play more of a role in Oblivion over Skyrim. Two handed weapons find a genuine use, as their length makes them useful at dealing damage while staying out of the range of enemies using one-handed weapons.
The unique power attacks that are unlocked through leveling up blade and blunt are just great. My person favorite being the backwards power attack that can knock enemies off their feet.
Assuming that Oblivion Remaster is truly on the way and they don't touch game mechanics, we all have a lot to look forward to in the future.
The game with the best combat hands down is nioh 2 it better balances memory and skill with RPG elements you can build around
Was not expecting such a W nioh 2 take out in the wild but whole heartedly agree.
Fuck yes Nioh is a good balance and I’m my opinion so is Nier Automata
No, Dragon's Dogma 1.
A lot of what you talk about here is building your character which I find distinct from combat. What I would consider the combat in oblivion is pretty light. Hit em with a weakness spell*3 then hit em with a spell. Block slash slash block slash slash *100. Enemy attacks are either close to undodgeable or molasses slow. Dodging ranged attacks is just spamming adadadadadad. You keep mentioning elemental weaknesses and I just don't consider that the least bit entertaining. Oh I hit the frost guy with the fire attack, enthralling.
@@lllIIlllI we can describe anything in the most boring way possible. Counter strike was point and click. Your speed, the specific enemy attack, and your distance from your enemy make some attacks easier/harder to dodge, and it is gradual, not “easy to doge or molasses slow.”
In oblivion you have options from touch spells, target spells, bows, close range fast weapons with the best dps, claymores that let you keep enemies far away but attack slower and take absurd fatigue amounts, and more.
There is a TON of variety, and it isn’t possible for me to list it all here due to custom spells and custom enchants. Hell, even what you said, is that weakness spell on touch or target? Does it last 4 seconds so you need to follow up quickly, or last longer but takes more magicka?
It’s fine that you don’t like it, but your comment is very misleading about what oblivion combat is like.
@theoldknight85 You told him man. Almost as hard as when my boy once said, the six districts are arranged around the Palace like spokes of a wheel. Starting in the northeast, going clockwise, you have the Market, Arena, Arboretum, Temple, Talos Plaza, and Elven Gardens districts. The Waterfront is south of Temple District. The Arcane University is south of the Arboretum. The Imperial Prison is north of Market District.
Bosmer take OP.
@@theoldknight85You told him off like the six districts are arranged around the Palace like spokes of a wheel. Starting in the northeast, going clockwise, you have the Market, Arena, Arboretum, Temple, Talos Plaza, and Elven Gardens districts. The Waterfront is south of Temple District. The Arcane University is south of the Arboretum. The Imperial Prison is north of Market District.
It would seem like what you are craving is a real time crpg with action elements. And the move from rpg in favor of heavier action is what you don't like in dark souls, which is fine
Some people seem to also not understand how the level up system actually works or how to min/max. Granted it is tedious to get perfect +5s, but it's also very enjoyable at the same time. When I level up it feels earned.
I have a build very similar to your mage build, but your customs spells were much more efficient with your better knowledge of the underlying math. I am also an atronach so I have to use stones constantly. Also never knew about fatigue buffing or why I moved faster with feather active until I watched your videos.
I love your channel. You know I think it would be cool for you do to a ‘rate my build’ type series, where you look over peoples builds , see what they are going for and what play type they are aiming for, and potentially give optimisation tips etc.. any way, just wanted to say I like your videos 👍
Imo, the difference between Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim in combat can be generalized as a difference in Mechanical Depth and Feel.
Mechanical Depth can be described as the actual game mechanics and how they function, and the player's ability to interact with them. Being able to perform multiple types of spells, being able to enchant your bow to do different types of damage, are typical examples of mechanical depth.
Feel is harder to describe, and is subjective, but also pretty important. It's just how good it feels to do something in a game. It's the difference between watching your sword phase through someone, and watching, hearing, *feeling* it cleave some poor digital man's head from his shoulders. It's a combination of sound design, visuals, feedback, and even game mechanics.
Morrowind has by far the most depth just by inclusion of the hit chance and spell chance systems. But, and I say this with around 400 hours in it, it doesn't feel particularly great. There's the obvious issue of people who don't know how to play just missing every swing with the starting dagger because they have a near 0 hit chance, but even if you're playing a powerful demigod, it doesn't feel great. Spells just kinda quietly make guys fall over. Swords pass right through targets with an indistinct smacking sound. It's unsatisfying.
Skyrim, on the other hand, probably has the best Feel out of all of the TES games. Stealth Archery isn't just a main playstyle because it's powerful, but because it also feels good. The animations and sound effects for werewolves and vampire lords in particular can be quite nice and make two things that kinda suck mechanically still fun to play. But in Depth, well, there really isn't much, and it's incredibly disappointing with how little you can do and how limited you are. And compared to many dedicated action games, Skyrim's game feel is still pretty bad.
Oblivion, though, is definitely in the middle of it all. With less mechanical depth than Morrowind (And sometimes worse off where it doesn't have that), but only mildly greater feel to it, it's, ehhh. It's hard to find anything very nice to say about it today. I think the highest compliment it could receive back in the day is that the physics engine was a massive, stunning improvement over Morrowind. Otherwise it's kind of in the middle, where it still feels really janky, and still has depth to it. Doesn't make it better or worse than any of the other TES games imo, but it definitely doesn't feel great to play for most people, which I think is important.
Also
Dark Souls is less about memorizing things and more about observation, positioning, and rhythm, varying depending on which of the souls games you specifically look at.
1 probably has the best balance between the three IMO. You can win most fights pretty reasonably on your first go around by just being very cautious. Observe what the boss does, where its combos will be hard for it to chain together, and then hug those spots while you sneak in hits here and there.
Dark souls 3 and everything that came after, is much more akin to a rhythm game. You will not win by being cautious and observant. You need to know when to dodge roll and to be fairly aggressive.
None of them really have meaningful RPG components though, at least not like Morrowind/Oblivion. The only impact builds really have is how quickly they damage enemies.
I can agree with you on dark souls to a degree, but there really is a big difference between DS1/DS2 combat and post Bloodborne fromsoft games in terms of things like game speed, enemy movesets, etc. I personally like the slower more methodical gameplay of DS1/2
i suggest trying Barony, it's a dungeon crawler roguelike so it has slightly less rpg elements, but it feels like the combat is similar enough to oblivion wherein it's less "skill" focused and more related to your build/spells/items
Oblivion was my first ES game as a kid and it really did capture my imagination similar in a way to how the Lord of the Rings did. I do agree that the combat does have a fun variety for build opportunities and is more enjoyable than Dark Souls' combat (which is really just an action game with rpg elements). Your vids have made me do a new playthrough with Maskar's overhaul. I do find the combat not as fun when compared to Morrowind or Daggerfall (which is my favourite), however, the progression is still enjoyable and I do find the constant exploration enthralling.
Thanks for these vids. The going into the mechanics of rpgs and number crunching is one of my favourite parts of the genre. It's nice to see someone doing this for Oblivion.
Becoming one my favorite UA-camrs. I like how respectful you are about your disagreements with the broader community about the game's systems.
Thanks for showing me the leveling system isn't trash. Not sure I was totally sold on that notion but I was leaning that way.
10:38 🤓☝️ Sprint was actually introduced as an ability in halo reach, which yes, came out in 2010 a year before skyrim
Not hard to tell that the interns were given charge at Bungee back then.
Spartans average movement speed is faster than a baseline human at a dead-run, so giving them a sprint just seems redundant.
@@kiwi3954 you’d think I’d remember that after my 1000 hours of halo 3 multiplayer. Getting older is tough
Ah, halo reach and oblivion. 2 great games that unfortunately set standards for the downfall of the gaming industry. (Halo reach stealing features from other games and oblivions horse armor forever changed the gaming landscape)
I think the problem with Oblivion combat, is that if you go for magic only, melee only, etc., then it gets boring. But if you are going to build like a stealth character that fights with melee, bow, and uses magic, you gonna have huge variety in combat. I play Morrowind now as Witchhunter, who uses melee, ranged, and enchanted items to cast spells. The combat is awesome actually if you play interesting character
I think Oblivion combat is underrated. The enemies can be hit spongy yeah, but the combat emphasizes resource management (gotta keep your fatigue high, you never wanna run out of that green juice)
Love the content like always bro!, Keep it going! Keep it coming!
Are you actually looking forward to a remake? I'd rather have them move away from the massive open World, tune down the randomization and levelling enemies and make a New game.
Ninja flips never uploads anymore but he has a HIGE playthrough where he plays on the highest difficulty and explains alllll the mechanics. Worth checking out his old vids tbh
I've never played stealth archer in skyrim and never will. I don't want to make myself bored while playing a game
The key issue with people enjoying or not enjoying the combat is the abstraction from player skill to character performance is done in ways that you wouldn't expect. Morrowind fatigue affects accuracy which is invisible to the player. Oblivion high base fatigue reduces the damage effect of increasing max fatigue which is invisible to the player. In morrowind items give you a ton of power and the enchantments on some items are equal to over 50 character level ups in power. In oblivion mostly all items in the game except trancendent sigil stones or about a dozen level 25 items give good power. It's not straightforward to wait to level 17 to do kvatch or 25 to do most overworld quests.
IT's not explained to the player in any way what's good or what they can expect, and everything you expect like luck giving you crits or strength giving you meele damage is totally not what the player expects.
Can you find out? Yes, but it's designed in a counterintuitive way.
I 100% agree with the combat and how Oblivion is definitely more so building your character up around attributes, skills, spells, alchemy, etc. I think you made a good point outside a small few things, "building" your character on skyrim is just leveling up the associated skill and your weapon slowly doing more damage that's basically it. Ignoring exploits on that game, it is indeed way more shallow than oblivion because there are more factors that play into your build. Oblivion your build starts even before you leave the imperial sewers. Picking your race, class, and birth stone all have a decent bit to them that at least make each play through feel different and that's not including a huge variety of unique things like custom spells, magic stones for powers/buffs, and I love how oblivion has lots of items that will give you passive buffs/bonuses just from holding onto them. I can't remember if skyrim has similar objects, but oblivion IMO has a much more solid foundation for builds because it's build around being a more conventional RPG while skyrim is in my opinion less so and more accessible (which is great of course, just different though)
Skyrim does have passive items, but the best ones in game are ones you enchant yourself, and nothing else even comes close.
I genuinely believe skyrim was made in 2 weeks cause the amount of important things they removed from oblivion is not logical or sane at all
It's what happens when all the talent from Morrowind and Oblivion "got quit". These are the junior devs, the interns, former coffee fetchers.
In Oblivion there was variety and I felt the weight of each weapon. Blocking actually protected you, swinging and power attacks actually delivered what they intended. You could go back and forth with an enemy for a while and it was fairly engaging, especially stronger enemies like Daedra.
The rationale about it being bad seems pretty shortsighted and nobody else has seems to have a better formula. Otherwise we’d see it in newer games. We could go back with Morrowind’s system, which people still hated, or use Skyrim’s model of holding M1 down until they dropped and being a stealth archer, which is the most shallow combat ever that put me to sleep.
usefull videos i always thought efficient leveling was a turn off. i'm currently using the healer preset class as a breton the tips coming in handy
I actually think it's pretty okay. I also play it on the side and just turned it off an hour ago. 😂
Some of the moves are quite funny to watch, but overall I think it's okay.
I have a kind of "all-rounder" that I'm currently playing and he fights with a two-handed sword and without armor, I also have a lot of athleticism and acrobatics and can easily repair the weapons myself. if the sword breaks and I don't currently have any equipment with me, i turn into a boxer and let my fists speak. Destruction i also ramped up if weapons don't help. Plus those backflips and all that. 🤣😂
The only bad thing for me was that I had to swallow a lot of healing potions, especially in the early game. the recovery skill just takes way too long to skill and it's a grind until you're really good.
I also found it funny how abruptly the music stopped when you took out an enemy. 😂 With my archer back then, the enemies would always fly away when I hit them with an arrow, and in Skyrim he always kicks these skulls completely away if I accidentally traipse over them. 🤣😂
I particularly like Morrowind for its selection of armor and subcategories, as well as magic. The combat is admittedly "a bit" strange to watch (😂) but I like the game as a whole too much to just focus on the combat. But I don't have a problem with it if it's just not for everyone. 😎😃👌🏻🤷🏼♂️
Now waiting for this man to try KCD just to talk about the combat cause it's one of the harder things about the game that made me keep going just to get better. Ofc the variety of magic ain't there for a good reason lmao.
Have you seen StratEdgy's "review" I think he is one of the few that understood Oblivion. Even if he played Unarmed for roleplaying he clearly states later on that its not a good weapon skills. He engages in a lot of mechanics and stuff, its really a joy to watch.
Which video? I would say that the one he did on Oblivion about four months ago is the best, entitled "Broken Games Are Better." That's the one where he finally unlocks the game's true potential. But the awesome things he discovers have already been pointed out by @theoldknight85 in other videos.
Oblivion has my favorite combat of the Elder Scrolls games mostly because of the ability to both dart quickly in and out of reach as well as manually block. Combat rhythm is very subjective though, and I do generally prefer enemy design in Morrowind as well as the ability to use a spear for greater reach (and thematically I just like spears).
I think when people look at oblivion combat they're sort of looking at it from the wrong perspective because "good" combat in action games is widely perceived as what's most realistic or flashy, which is what leads to comparisons with games like dark souls etc. But obviously that's not the only way in which combat in games can be good. Nobody would complain about the combat in a card game not being mechanically realistic for example. I think if people approached oblivion combat in a less conventional way and tried to appreciate it more for what it is (less about the actual mechanics of fighting and more about character build and what you're using to fight) then they wouldn't be so critical of it. I'm glad you brought up the dark souls example because it's unfair to say that the combat in dark souls is objectively better when dark souls and oblivion are clearly doing different things and so aren't really directly comparable. Anyway, love the vids dude, keep it up :)
The most fun I’ve had with the combat was with high speed, athletics, and acrobatics while jumping and running around zombies with on-touch fire spells
The main thing they are looking at really is melee combat because time and time again basic human fighter is what most people pick in RPGs so if that isn't done well then the game isn't seen as done well. It's much less about it being realistic as it is about it being dynamic and engaging. Oblivion is engaging and dynamic when you mix in spell effects and poison/potion effects but the melee options are quite lacking. Skyrim is most improved in making blocking much more reactive with the use of bashes and the slow time on block perk letting you fight with a much more active defense. It also makes spells more of a commitment since they take up a hand to cast and can't just be spammed from an offhand.
😂 a card game isn’t pretending to have a controlled avatar in 3d space with swords swinging and blood etc
Seems like you're the expert from all the other videos I've watched.
For 2006 the combat is really good, its the leveling systems that sucks
Oblivion was my first Elder Scrolls but it's still my favorite for a lot of the same reasons you've described. I also never really liked the Souls games either. I've never really been good at articulating my thoughts as to why that is but you pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I'm curious to know if you've tried Dragon's Dogma. To me the game feels like a mid-point between Oblivion and the Souls genre. It does require some skill, but I don't think it's as demanding as the Souls games. And the game also offers much more dynamic gamplay and ways of getting through certain obstacles, at least once you're able to progress through the classes.
Dragon's Dogma has possibly the best magic gameplay mechanics I've ever experienced. The visual feedback + animations when casting spells is top notch. The spellcasting animations are seamlessly built in with the mechanics and require the player to approach combat with at least a bit of strategy when chaining spell effects. Combat pacing is much more pronounced in DD and really helps to make each class distinct.
Will you show your final build and a setup on this char?
I love in oblivion that the magic cast button is separate. Also the animation is cool if you're carrying a weapon. Skyrim and morrowind magic is so inferior to oblivion which is sad because morrowind has a deeper magic system sand skyrim is newer and should be better in that sense but isn't
Although i love morrowind and i like it better than oblivion i still love both and play them regularly, i 100% agree on not liking dark souls combat, it's some of the most janky stuff ever
yeah i love oblivions combat, i have also seen people say it's floaty, and what you're saying about morrowind it's almost like a dnd turn base type of thing, oblivion is 100% left up to the imagination of the player, which is perfect for a fantasy game, you don't have to show me how crazy my guy is, the floatyness to me is the "dnd"/"imagination" of it, if im playing a jumpy ninja character i want him swinging and dodging and shit, i don't need to see the animations on the screen because this is a rpg game i can use my imagination for some stuff, skyrims combat is more "realistic" i guess but is that what we want? because i don't think so, i don't expect the game devs to have to make an animation for everything which is the problem with skyrim, the ability to use 2 handed weapons efficiently and cast spells in oblivion is an example, if you need a hand to cast a spell just hold the weapon in one hand for a sec, whereas in skyrim it's very inefficent and annoying to switch because it's so slow and clunky.
You nailed it. People who mod Skyrim to oblivion (pun intended) actually lose a lot of potential for their imagination to kick in because they want "realism" or "immersion." More is actually less in these types of games because limitation generates creativity.
It’s very good, it’s just that the weapons don’t deal enough fucking damage. But that’s what mods are for.
I never got to deep on creating spells so i will take your word on that but personally enjoyed the combat. I agree that skyrim felt disapointing compared to oblivion.
i respect your opinion. But you said you like morrowind and oblivion because they more about rpg, class building than souls games, but i can't share that sentiment.
At least with Elden ring, rest souls game i dont remember alot.
When it comes to rpg, atleast making builds sides of it, Elden ring rivals D&D like bg3 and surpass it. It had practically limitless variety of character Builds that you can roleplay(combatwise).
It has ton of ways you can play the game from your usual stereotypical big dude with sword to most intricate and unique build imaginable. You can be monk that uses fist or legs(both option are here and variety of them), you can become wolverine, you can be mage with any sorts of styles, you can use summons, you can use strange item or weapon with unique combat moveset, you can rely on some strange mechanics, that not even weapon.
Elden ring like has 300+ (with dlc more) weapons with unique animations, qualities and strenghts that you can base build around. Ton of weapons that can change everything about how you approach combat. Its not just big numbers, each weapon has unique traist and qualities. Sometimes they share type(but even then within type, each weapon could be game style changing and different animations), but often they completely unique without analogue with unique moveset.
ITs just one of the most impressive feats i saw in games. Elden ring is very reminding D&D in how you can make build to your liking with truly tons of options.
you can practically do almost any analogue build that D&D has or unique for elden ring. It's best action embodiment of D&D i saw and had similar build making component to it.
If oblivion has 15 daedra weapons, Elden ring had like 150 daedric weapons and probably much more. To put it in perspective
What's a good difficulty you enjoy playing with max or under? Thanks.
in Skyrim the quests are also way more boring imo
like with Oblivion there's at least 10 different quests I can think of off the top of my head that I really enjoy every time I play, and that's not even including the Knights of the Nine, Thieve's Guild or Dark Brotherhood quests (the Fighter's Guild questline is just a chore imo)
while in Skyrim there's Dawnguard and that's basically it, and even then Serana hard carries that whole questline
although I think a large part of that is the voice acting generally being way more stale in Skyrim than Oblivion
and with Dark Souls I definitely agree on the bosses and to a pretty big extent with the builds but a lot of that has to do with how they changed how poise works between games, arguably for the worse, along with magic generally being some form of OP
in 1 it's very reliable and you can make a pretty solid tank build while in 2 and especially 3 they made basically every physical based build work basically the same way, not to mention at least one of the magic schools being stupidly overpowered in each one (sorceries in 1, hex magics in 2, faith in 3, etc.)
it's still arguably a problem in Bloodborne and Nioh 2 but I like those games way more because they actually encourage fast, aggressive play and both have mechanics designed to take advantage of parries, and especially in Nioh 2 there's a surprising amount of depth to the combat and the bosses are way more varied
Yo there's a repair hotkey?
I always bind repair hammers to the 8 key because it’s hard for me to reach during combat, but easy during down time
I watched a BG1 and BG2 review by mortismal gaming and it pissed me off how he understood virtually nothing about the game or story but still had the audacity to claim he "100%" completed the game despite playing on story mode and only playing a single character class. He missed key details that are explained multiple times throughout the games, sometimes saying something that is literally contradicted or explained by the character dialogue he has displayed on screen while he is saying them. Sorry, had to rant.
Is this information outlined in the manual? I don't seem to remember a lot of this information being included, but that's only off the top of my head.
Oblivion does it's best to obscure the real numbers from the layer.
Just some feedback, I’d prefer if you didn’t pause in the middle of an explanation to comment on the gameplay footage, it’s just superfluous, and a lot of people like me will just listen to these videos for audio, so just keep it direct and scripted (or unscripted if that’s what you prefer) but the gameplay commentary is unnecessary imo
Thanks for the feedback. This one was definitely more off the cuff and not scripted. I’m not able to play and really keep my thoughts straight while playing, my videos without gameplay footage are definitely more what you are looking for.
I’ll try to keep a good balance, after rewatching this i definitely get distracted and off topic too easily
i har bethesta is doing a remaake maybe before skyblivion comes ouoooot
yes
it is
Compared to Morrowind it is, yes.
Never lose sleep when people say Oblivion isn't realistic. Do you mean the art style wasn't a clue that you weren't sitting down for a dose of gritty realism? Look at the orcs, ffs! If you want more realism, you probably play something like Kingdom Come: Deliverance.
Besides, the same people who blather on about realism will swim across Niben Bay in plate armor. It would be funny if future Elder Scrolls games made people in plate walk across the bottom of a lake or river, like what happens if you're in power armor in Fallout 4.
Although I seem to recall enjoying the combat in Skyrim more, I haven't played that one in almost 8 years and I used mods like Wildcat, so I can't really say if the vanilla system was better or worse. Magic was worse in Skyrim, and that was a nice change from the absolutely bananas brokenness of magic in the two games which preceded it.
The stealth archer was my first character in Daggerfall, Morrowind, & Oblivion. That is to say I received a healthy beat-down in my first outing in those games. Skyrim was the first time when it seemed like a person was rewarded for not just waving their fingers & shooting magic juice.
Magic being worse in Skyrim is a nice change from the previous ES games? I don't understand that logic. The so-called "brokenness" of the magic system in the two games before Skyrim has more to do with people misunderstanding how to creatively use the tools in said magic system.
@@josephpercy1558 No problem. I'll try to break it down. I'm someone who doesn't enjoy playing mages or being goaded in that direction because of the shortcomings of the mundane means of attack. It was nice to see the OP token fall somewhere other than in the hands of mages for once.
Its a problem with how the games are coded. Hit locations aren't important, for one thing. As a player's damage potential skyrockets with mastery of magic, so should their ability to say, put an arrow through the throat of a mage before he begins to speak.
The previous games are broken through no fault of the players. It was bad coding which allows infinite intelligence & mana in Morrowind or which allows the insane stacking of weakness spells in Oblivion. The power granted by magic isn't restricted in a meaningful way depending on things like armor worn. The open nature of the game & character creation means anyone can spec into anything if they have the patience & coin required.
DLC tends to make the problem worse. You're $10.99 away from having access to a spellmaking altar regardless of your rank or membership status in the guild. Anyone playing Morrowind today will have the second best light armor in the game handed to them for free if they have Tribunal installed. The only thing to do after that is to replace it with glass armor pieces or artifacts as you explore.
Its like being able to plant & harvest jarrin root in Skyrim with its ridiculously strong poison. The developers didn't have the foresight to see how the systems could be warped. Bad game design is why guys like Spiff can have their own channels. Bethesda game worlds tend to have a lot of attention poured into them. Bethesda game character classes? Not so much.
@@Mr._Anderpson ["As a player's damage potential skyrockets with mastery of magic, so should their ability to say, put an arrow through the throat of a mage before he begins to speak."]
That's a bit shortsighted to say, because a mage's abilities are much more than dealing damage. It's a bad comparison. Real mage power comes through AoE control, not raw damage.
["The power granted by magic isn't restricted in a meaningful way depending on things like armor worn."]
That's a confusing claim in which you're going to have to bring more context. In Oblivion, at least, magic-casting efficiency is indeed meaningfully restricted by the types/amount of armor worn.
["You're $10.99 away from having access to a spellmaking altar regardless of your rank or membership status in the guild."]
Please expand on this claim. Yes, I'm aware of Frostcrag Spire, but this DLC is an afterthought. Xbox players can't access it because the Microsoft store pulled it from sales, anyway. As for Morrowind, I agree -- but base game Oblivion did improve upon these shortcomings, i.e. access to high tier armor or very early spellmaking. But these game worlds are open-ended on purpose, because in roleplaying the player intentionally places limits on the character within the world. It's about using your imagination versus the developers constantly having to worry about fixing game world imbalances. The player is the one that, again, ought to be balancing and restricting his playthroughs. Skyrim, therefore, is a step in the wrong direction, as the developers consciously tried to limit and "balance" its magic system -- leading to a dull, tedious and apathetic experience for mages.
@@josephpercy1558 My reply disappeared. How odd, considering none of the tripwires which summon the machine elves were used.
Buddy, you asked me why I would prefer seeing mages nerfed and I responded. I won't take it further because rather than accept that someone else might see something from another perspective, you want to argue. You can do that without me and you'll find no shortage of people online who will indulge you.
We have differing perspectives & are at an impasse. You see a slight percentage variation in spell effectiveness as a meaningful restriction to magic. I do not. You see it as the responsibility of the player to restrict themselves to make up for the lack of foresight on the part of the game devs. I do not. Its ok to see things differently.
Take it easy.
@@josephpercy1558 Third attempt at a reply. How odd, considering none of the tripwires which summon the machine elves were used.
Buddy, you asked me why I would prefer seeing mages being reined in and I responded. I won't take it further because rather than accept that someone else might see something from another perspective, you want to argue. You can do that without me and you'll find no shortage of people online who will indulge you. Besides, for whatever reason I have to respond multiple times before one response "sticks". It isn't worth the time.
We have differing perspectives & are at an impasse. You see a slight percentage variation in spell effectiveness as a meaningful restriction to magic. I do not. You see it as the responsibility of the player to restrict themselves to make up for the lack of foresight on the part of the game devs. I do not. Its ok to see things differently.
Take it easy.
I think I just "hate watch" you at this point. I enjoy your content, but I disagree on almost everything you say outside of objective data you show. I don't even really like Oblivion; it's always been my least favorite modern Elder scrolls game but your deep knowledge of it is fascinating.
n replaying oblivion again lately so well timed
Not really. But wayyyyyy better than morrowind.
Honestly, I didn't pick up Oblivion because of its combat.
I picked it up because I wanted to experience the story.
and after playing the game for a long time, I can say that it doesn't hold itself against the test of time. combat wise, it sucks, and graphics are bad even for the period it was released.
Oblivion combat is at its basic, a hack and slash or a point and click. at its most complex, is just math with very messed up formulas. learning how the combat works in oblivion is less skill and more figuring out what those formulas are and how to use them in your favor. this is messed up enough as it is but then its exacerbated by Oblivion's messed up leveling system, and even more exacerbated by the enemies scaling up with your level.
Once you get that out of the way, learn how to level up efficiently and learn the correct formulas to increase your damage, the story holds up pretty decently, is not THE best story to ever be told, its quantity over quality in most areas, but its not bad.
that said, oblivion isn't a story driven game, and we all know it, its a combat driven one, Oblivion tries to use the combat as a tool to carry the story and doesn't do a very good job. But at least Oblivion's combat is better than Morrowinds
one thing you said about morrowind's combat system was that it felt like it was turn based. I Would like to describe Morrowind's combat as a mix of Hack and slash + dice roller.
let me give an example. In world of warcraft, you click on an enemy to attack, and then the system does a bunch of math, taking into consideration, your weapon expertise, your level, you weapon skill, etc. against your enemie's dodge %, your enemies level, etc. in order to decide whether your attack is hit or miss.
a hack and slash is like skyrim, you point your cursor at an enemy, press a click, your weapon swings from side to side and if you're within range, congratulations, you hit your enemy.
Morrowind, tries to fuse these two systems and it does the WORSE job at it. You need to aim your attacks at the enemy, then the system does a bunch of math taking into considerations a bunch of yours and your enemies stats and then decides whether you hit or miss.
this leads to having to click 9 thousand times only to miss 90% of the time because your small weapon's skill is low.
Thank god they got rid of this shit in oblivion because OMG this shit is insane, Im amazed some bozo at bethesda thought it was a good idea and decided to include it in morrowind. but hey, live and learn, right? except literally nobody else in the whole world used this kind of system, and it must be for a reason.
I totally agree, skyrim has only ever been fun for me with a ton of mods. It comes down to combat and the minimal level up choices. I keep wondering if bethesda will go back to an attribute system because of the success of bg3.
How is oblivion's levelling up better when all you choose is what attributes you wanna increase? The old knight even showed that those attributes don't matter that much. In Skyrim you can level up a stat in addition to perks. Oblivion doesn't give you choices of perks of a skill and its way fewer perks to be gained.
@@ashmonkey2572 I just prefer more classic roleplaying elements like attributes. To be perfectly honest I think Fallout 4 has the most fun level up system despite the rest of that games flaws.
@@nekrospect2940 Fallout 4 has a lot of perks that really influence the gameplay. I agree it's great in that way. Other than that i too didn't like Fallout 4.
@@ashmonkey2572 I disagree. Skyrim is a watered-down version of Oblivion/Morrowind. Perks are more like randomized percentage increases, and the rest are just flat increases in the health, magicka and stamina bars. Oblivion/Morrowind is way more integrated by how so many other factors influence health, magicka and stamina (fatigue).
The game plays like doom eternal, very fast paced with lots of switching between weapons and magic, the omnidirectional movement is what is most fun to me
I see way more praise for skyblivion than it deserves, and i can say for a fact that the official remake will be better. The reason is mainly because Skyrim's combat is awful compared to oblivion, so having better graphics while still having the gameplay and rpg elements intact will be a major advantage over skyblivion.
When i play oblivion, i like to grind my character first, before i do any of the quests. The reason is because i like playing the quests without needing to level up or get new gear. I like to properly level up. By getting my attributes to 100 by level 26, except for personality and luck. I find it useless to increase these since you can just cast a luck spell and use luck enchanted clothing, and same for personality. Or you can just use a charm spell. I stop leveling after 26, since that's when the last enemy type spawns and leveling only becomes detrimental after that, since enemy scaling is unbalanced.
I don't use bows in oblivion, instead I just stick to close range combat, and i use a spell that drains enemy health by 100 along with as much damage as i can get from each element before it becomes too expensive to cast if i need to eliminate a target from range. My main damage comes from combining spells, or combining a spell of weakness to all magic and elements with goldbrand. For very tanky enemies i cast a weakness spell on them a couple times, since the effect stacks, and then i use a damage spell. I like to spread the damage evenly between elements since it's more efficient and uses less magic. Having a spell that does 50 frost and 50 fire damage costs less magic than a spell that does 100 fire damage. You can also reduce the costs even further by lowering the damage, but adding a second to the spell effect.
As for Skyrim's spell system, it is very basic in comparison to oblivion, and many mechanics in skyrim are easily abused. For example, i can infinitely stun lock an enemy by using the shield sprint to knock them down. Or i can keep a target paralysed for no magical cost, with 25% less cost for alteration spells on 4 clothing items. Oblivion requires glitches to abuse, so you can't '"legitimately" break the game. The dupe glitch will probably be patched in the remake too.
No but its better than skyrim.
Before I watch
Yes
Cyberpunk2077 is just a generic shooter, its "rpg elements" are not even on par with gacha shooters like The First Descendant. Also theres this zoomer I seen play Oblivion and Morrowind asking his chat every 3 seconds
"wheres the sprint button? "
🤣
Morrowinds combat is very tactical i guess is the word, Skyrims is straight braindead, oblivion has always felt like a good place for the "Bethesda combat" style
In Skyrim all you need to do is drink the soup that restores your stamina for a minute, then just spam heavy attacks to stun lock.
hmmm.....interesting, for me dark souls is better because I like the fact that I do not have to set up my character to beat almost anyboss in the game, i can do it with a club a buttnaked, just based on the skill and memorising and predicting the enemies attacks pattern.