Recumbent trikes are much safer than bikes when struck by a car!
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- Опубліковано 25 січ 2024
- Would you rather be on a standard upright bicycle or on a recumbent tricycle if you were to be struck by an automobile from behind? In this talk, I share a few of my ideas on this topic, going into points that have not been considered by others prior to now.
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"TAKE IT EASY ... TAKE A TRIKE!" - trike hobo
Steve's current recumbent trike is a 2021 HP Velotechnik Scorpion fs26 Enduro, outfitted with Schwalbe Marathon PLUS road tires instead of the stock knobby off-road tires. He has also owned a 2015 ICE Full Fat off-road trike, a 2014 Catrike 700 speed trike, and a 2007 ICE Qnt trike ... not to mention three bikes (Specialized Roll Elite - Motobecane Night Train fat tire - Easy Racers Gold Rush recumbent)
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Other websites by Steve:
trikeasylum.wordpress.com
silentpassage.wordpress.com/
trikegypsies.wordpress.com/
trikephantoms.wordpress.com/
mojavetraverse.wordpress.com/ - Спорт
Good points Steve 😊.
I never really thought about the frame of a recumbent trike being a type of crash cage to help protect you in the case of being struck by a vehicle.
Even if it helps minimally, it still is better than nothing at all, like riding a bicycle.
Some recumbent trikes frame structure is A LOT better than others.
Being that the frame of the trike is all one structure, verses other recumbent trikes which the seat frame is independent of the rest of the trike.
My Catrike Expedition, as well as a Catrike 700 have frame structures that are all one piece, the seat is all part of the frame.
Other recumbent trikes which have rear suspension, the seat frame is a separate structure from the rest of the trike's frame.
Thus not having nearly the overall strength to help withstand a impact of a vehicle.
Either way though, I couldn't imagine being struck by a vehicle, especially a large high riding vehicle, like so many people drive nowadays, trucks and soccer mom SUV's.
Thanks for sharing your points of safety and awareness.
I wish America's government: local city, county, state and federal government would really step up their DOT, department of transportation in making roads, highways a lot safer for cyclists transportation.
Cyclists supposedly always have the right of way regarding other vehicles when traveling.
However it sure seems like cyclists are second class citizens in this department, when it comes to cyclists being able to travel safely along any route that is desired or even needed by the cyclists.
Like yourself who's sole mode of transportation is a pedal powered cycle, be it bicycle or recumbent bicycle/trike.
Why should cyclists be viewed as purely a exercise activity only, and not given the same priorities as vehicles when traveling?
Every road and highway should have a minimum 4' wide shoulder with posted signs as well as painted bicycle stencil on the shoulder of the road periodically to show drivers that the shoulder is accessible for bicycle travel.
Bicycles/recumbent trikes are not viewed by most of America as a solo mode of transportation by the cyclists.
Thus the huge unsafe burden of the cyclists having to navigate when traveling on one's cycle be it bicycle or recumbent trike.
Even when accidents happen, like in this case with the two cyclists being struck by the court judge.
All she received was a slap on the hand, after killing one cyclists and injuring the other severely.
I'm willing to bet she used her power and position to make sure she came out on top during all the legal proceedings.
Only caring about herself personally.
She should have been thrown in jail and loose her position as a court superior judge.
She took another person's life and injured another.
Things need to drastically change for cyclists, but they never will.
There's just too much entitlement from vehicle drivers vs the rights of cyclists regarding mode of transportation.
We as cyclists have all read or personally experienced vehicle drivers becoming hostile at cyclists, and telling them that they shouldn't be riding on the road.
Says who?...the entitled vehicle driver.
It seems that the cyclists community are second class citizens when choice of travel is concerned.
It Shouldn't Be This Way!
Those are all outstanding points Firefly! I totally agree that we do not have road equality with petroleum powered vehicle, and we never will because cars and trucks are what powers this country financially, and where the money originates is where the transportation dollars go! Yes, I agree that the district court judge was spared legitimate justice due to her position ... how else can someone walk away from killing and maiming with only a fine? Not only did she do that to the cyclists, she also destroyed their families psychologically for the rest of their lives. Perhaps her justice will come in the form of forever knowing what she did to those people. That whole incident is indicative of how our system does not work, and how car drivers always end up on top.
steve
I agree about the Catrike space frame, where the seat is actually part of the trike framework! That is one big thing I always liked about my Catrike 700, a simple, yet superior design, that was much stronger than most other trikes where the seat is just attached, almost like an after-thought. The 700 however had my head right in line with a car bumper, but one of the Catrikes with a more upright seat would be better from the viewpoint of rear-end car impacts. BUT, that 700 was SO much fun that I didn't worry about it at the time. Now, older and a little wiser, I do think about this stuff, and I don't want to lose my remaining years to a lame car driver who is not paying proper attention to driving! On the flip-side, a detachable seat might be okay in that it might break away from the frame, providing some additional impact absorption. Who knows ... each collision is unique, and it is not really possible to predict the outcome. As such, we all must do the most we can with the trikes we have, and practice safe techniques on the road, being ever vigilant in traffic.
steve
Agreed 👍
Hoping here that Steve is going to hugely educate the whole Recumbent and total Cycling World regarding Rear-View Bicycle Radar!
No one better Online than Steve, to best inform us all!
I think that Bicycle Rear Radar is going to become HUGE!
Fellow, "Recumbenteers:"
Think about BOTH the Maximum SAFETY and
the Maximum RELAXATION for cyclists that rear radar would provide!
OH..., YEAH!
Being a dedicated fan of Star Trek since the 1960s, I am still awaiting a force shield technology like what Captain Kirk and the Starship Enterprise utilized to deflect incoming Klingon blasts, adapted to cyclists, whereby we would all be protected from any impacts. "Shields Up", and "Red Alert" would finally be the state of tech that keeps us all alive and safe no matter the situation.
But for now, alas, I think the radar discussion and resultant safety benefits will have to suffice! If it helps deter motorists who think a law enforcement officer awaits ahead, then that's great! Fear of being cited is the only thing that will have an impact on drivers who believe it's okay to drive in a manner that is not safe as long as they are not discovered doing it (just look at motorists slow down to the legal speed limit on freeways when they spot a cop, and this becomes quite clear).
For me personally, I am currently more focused on local rides in safer conditions than the adventures in which I have heretofore engaged during my cross country journeys. I am a big proponent in doing whatever is necessary to keep my body in one piece, and for me, that means a preparation for worst case scenarios. And no, I do not believe that every car strike spells disaster and death to the riders of recumbent trikes ... there are many situations in which we can walk away alive, with only our trike showing signs of collision. The tripod of all trikes is a significant factor in retaining some semblance of control that bicyclists do not have.
steve
This video got me thinking that I could get a shop to bend me some "ears" for the seat. Basically a 3/4" tube that comes out each side of the seat at shoulder height and wraps around a little bit. Attach it to the seat with something sturdy. This would be the first thing a car would hit and not your shoulder in a side impact. Put a pad on it. Yeah, I could design that.... I wonder if I could get a shop to make them to sell. Could also attach a mirror to them. It would not be in the way, and would improve safety. With mirrors you could tell people that they are just to hold mirrors where you want them and they wouldn't call you paranoid. I know you are not paranoid. It's not paranoia if the risk is real. Good video.
Thanks for the ideas! I too have thought about trike modifications over the years, and one thought I had a while back was to expand on the seat frame with some kind of a partial wrap-around "roll bar" type design. I have had a welding shop here do several modifications to a couple of my trikes in the past, implementing ideas that I dreamed up, illustrated on paper, and discussed with them. I have found them to be very helpful, and each project they always did with precision, and to my specs. If you can dream it, the welding shop can make it real.
steve
@@EZSteve I am a professional drafter and work in 2D and 3D. I am sure I could design something. Just need time. 😅
@@ajosepi1976 I am not a professional drafter, but what I did for one project I had welded (a fender/rack combination unit) was to hand draw the unit in 3D on an 8.5x11 piece of paper, with all measurements shown. I then discussed the drawing with the guy at the welding shop, and showed him where on the tricycle it would be located, so he had a real good idea of what I was after. When I picked it up a couple weeks later, I was impressed with how he made it happen! Check out the video linked below, at sixteen and a half minutes in, where I discuss the rack:
ua-cam.com/video/6OrpaUzZT8k/v-deo.html
With your computer drafting skills, you could really make a perfect illustration for someone to follow!
steve
@@EZSteve I watched that video in 2019 when I got my trike. I watched a lot of your videos back then. You helped me make several decisions.
As far as pro drafter vs normal person, if you have a good fabricator it won't matter. The only advantage I have is, I know how to work with less competent people and get the same result. All they have to do is follow the drawing.
The only part I have had made for my trike was a seat bracket I drew in Fusion 360 and had Send Cut Send make from stainless.
All the other parts I made on a Sherline lathe. Nothing major. Gaskets, shims, bar end adapters. Some 3D printed parts.
I plan to do more mods as soon as the Dr OKs me to exercise. Apparently my heart has an issue that we need to figure out, but I should be fine.
I being a certified welder/steel fabricator have some issues with this "roll-bar cage" idea.
First of all, if a vehicle hit you while riding the trike.
It would be traveling at least 25 mph minimum.
That's residential speed limit.
Out on a road or hwy, the speeds of traffic are much higher, thus the rate of speed vs impact is exponentially greater.
Aluminum is stiff but soft regarding the metallurgy component of its structure.
Stainless steel is much harder and stronger than aluminum, but... is much heavier.
Mild steel is heavy yet not as strong as Stainless steel.
Aluminum can rip and tear under high impact.
I really don't think I would want to be wrapped around aluminum under a high impact collision, with it potentially having sharp edges where it failed under impact.
Mild steel would be way too heavy to incorporate into a roll-cage application.
Any of these alloys for the actual application of the recumbent trike safety.
Would be highly inadequate under a vehicle high impact collision, and possibly more dangerous for the rider.
You're riding a recumbent trike, not a rail dune buggy.
Also, one would have to factor in all the cost of materials, fabrication time to the overall application usage... How often would something like this really be actually needed???
The equivalent would be getting a scuba certification and all the scuba gear to use in a swimming pool 😅.
If one is that fearful/paranoid of getting struck by a vehicle when riding their recumbent trike.
Then said person should probably stick to riding paths and sidewalks.
Also, This whole recumbent trike roll-cage apparatus would really only work under very low speeds.
In which case you would probably get tipped over on the slow impact.
A high speed vehicle impact is going to send you flying a good distance.
Which will cause a whole nother set of potential health risks.
You're focusing too much on the tree's and not viewing the forest.
Just ride!
Use common sense when riding wear bright clothing along with bright visible lights, and the possibility of brightly-colored panniers to all enhance your visibility.
The odds of getting struck by a vehicle if all these practices are implemented is very low... really low.
A lot of people drive these high riding SUV's and trucks.
Ain't no bolt-on roll-cage on a recumbent trike is going leave you unscrached if a big truck, SUV or car hits you at 40 mph +.
I personally don't ride with trepidation.
I utilize all the tools to be visible and just enjoy my ride.
It occurred to me as I watched that it would be safer to carry touring supplies on a trailer rather than on the back of the trike, because the stuff on your trike seems to extend beyond the seat frame, which would be visible beyond the view of the mirrors as they are usually mounted. Sure, it's slower, and a bit more ungainly in tighter situations, but my rear view mirrors (I have two mounted high on my fairing and one on my helmet) are less impeded by the trailer than if I had it all loaded on a carrier behind the seat. The trailer also lowers the center of gravity, which is a bit more important to me in turns because I've come off my trike twice trying to avoid hitting cars, once in a turn when I was dumped sideways, and once when we flipped forwards when a car backed out in front of me. I didn't have the trailer either time, and I didn't have panniers either, which would have made a difference because the back wheel left the ground first both times under heavy braking, and once that wheel goes, you have very little directional control unless you are very talented with differential braking techniques on uncertain surfaces, which is a skill I lack at times, depending on where I happen to be, especially on downhills.
The trailer also becomes the first point of contact in the situation you described, and outfitting the trailer with the most nauseatingly obnoxious hi-vis colours, reflectors, and lights should repel all but the most oblivious or inconsiderate people if only because they won't want to soil the insides of their own cars. Plus, as an added bonus, it's behind you about half a trike length: they might have to look at it, but you won't until you've stopped for the day. I'm not trying to make light of the circumstances you described, as I've had my own brushes with them, but if I'm going for a longer tour, I figure it would be safer to load a trailer, not the trike, if only to improve my own view back at traffic.
Thanks for the video!
Yes, there is quite a bit to always consider with these trikes! Matt Galat, a friend of mine who was riding a trike around the world, had a trailer when he was struck from behind by a truck, and I am sure that helped to lessen the impact on him to some extent. Anything back there is better than nothing at all. The mirrors on my HP Velotechnik are wider than most standard trike mirrors, so even with panniers on the trike (especially these Lone Peak bags), I can still see behind me very well. When I had my Arkel panniers, which were lower and wider, my rear view was not as good as it now is. I pulled a trailer for my first trike ride to Death Valley 15 years ago, and while it was no big deal when out on the open road riding flat ground (didn't even know it was there), in tight situations, backing up, and keeping rolling weight down all convinced me to go with just the trike from then on. I also had a bad tendency to over pack with my Burley trailer, and my rolling weight was around 375 pounds, which really made going up hills and mountain passes a majorly slow ordeal, haha.
steve
@@EZSteve My rolling weight, all up, trike included, without a trailer or cargo (including the tools that help keep the rear wheel on the ground under heavy braking on downhills) is 350 lbs or thereabouts. That also includes Spring fairing, motor and battery, and lighting.
I'm working on a canopy which will also have 2 larger wider mirrors, and an LED beacon, just because.
@@awvankats7550 Rolling weight is always a top consideration when touring, as it is the total amount of weight the rider is pedaling down the road, which includes everything, even the rider's bodyweight (which is often the heaviest single factor in the whole thing). A rolling weight of 350 is quite a load, not so much of a consideration on flat ground, but when traversing mountain passes, a rider will certainly feel, and be affected by, that amount. Lighter is always better for a tour.
steve
Good information thank you
Well, it's just my opinion of course, but seems to me that the more "stuff" that is between me and a bumper, the better my chances. And the potential that I could steer my trike off the road without flipping or being thrown off because of its three wheels (bikers are always knocked off onto the ground when struck) is another plus in my mind.
steve
Rear bicycle radar gives both sound and visual presence of approaching vehicles from behind rider.
Radar allows knowledge of both relative speed and reducing distance from rider's trike.
That lets rider know when to look at one's rearview mirrors.
Maximizes safety while minimizing need to study rear mirrors for traffic getting closer to rider's trike.
On your rear radar, do cars with radar detectors pick it up? If so, they might think there is a cop up ahead, and all of a sudden become very vigilant, driving slower and safer.
steve
Do not own one yet, but I would like to own one!
They have videos on Amazon/UA-cam, etc, showing them in use. Watch them!
The cars do not slow down in the videos, but it IS a Game Changer for us NOT having to study our
rear-view mirrors while riding on car-shared roads!!!!!!
The radars are also indicative of Cyclists coming up on you too. Game changing!!!
The range is farther than a city block away! WOW!
The most HUGE cycling Safety Device I have EVER seen!
Both moving LED indicator light AND sound warnings!
This changes everything for BOTH Road and Cycling Trail! @@EZSteve
This radar doesn't make sense, because If you are riding on a road with normal to heavy traffic, that radar won't stop beeping and you will turn it off or just won't pay attention to it. And if you are riding somewhere where there is almost no traffic, you will be able to easily hear the approaching car without radar.
Work perfectly on bicycle trails where hearing approaching bicycle is not easy.On heavy car roads, not as much.@@ivanilarionov1893
@@ivanilarionov1893 I have never used anything like this radar, but my question is whether it sets off radar detectors in cars so that the drivers slow down, thinking there is a cop up ahead. If so, then it seems a radar emitting device that makes no noise and does not flash, might be useful.
I see that everyone is discussing how the trikes are more unusual and the cars slow down and give them a wide berth, so they are more secure than a bike. But I haven't seen anyone discussing the following scenario - you are crawling on a hilly windy road without a shoulder and the approaching car doesn't see you because of a curve. Suddenly after the curve it sees you, but it is too late, because of the speed difference. If you were a normal cyclist, you can drive just on the edge of the pavement, and almost half your width will be outside of the road. But on a trike you cannot do that, because one of the wheels has to be outside of the road. Another scenario - the approaching car sees you, but cannot overtake, because there is opposite traffic, or lack of visibility. You are crawling with 3-4 km/h, thus stopping the traffic and forming a line of vehicles and at some point someone starts to overtake dangerously. Or another one - riding on a heavy traffic road with no shoulder and it happens that 2 big trucks going in opposite directions pass each other exactly on the same line with you - I really doubt that a big truck will lower it's speed fom 100 to 10-15 km/h to wait for the perfect conditions to overtake. Have you been in such situations and what is your experience?
Those are several valid concerns that a rider new to recumbent trikes might ponder prior to a trike tour, and it is good to think about these things before heading out for sure. After riding thousands of miles over the years, amidst millions of cars during that time, I have been successful at avoiding these scenarios that seem so perilous in words. I have written much material regarding these things, because in my view and experience, it's really not all that worrisome for a rider who is comfortable riding in car and truck traffic.
As just one example. take curves on a mountain road, and the thought that a car will come around, see the triker at the last second, and be unable to avoid striking the trike. The issue comes in what I have long since termed "blind rights", in other words, mountain curves that curve off towards the right, thereby hiding a recumbent trike rider ...
I have pedaled through hundreds of these situations on roads with little or no shoulder. The way I avoid the blind right problem stated in the comment is to only enter the curve if either of these two things is present:
1) There is no traffic coming behind me that would overtake me once I am in the blind right curve, or
2) I make sure the lead car driver clearly sees me prior to me entering the blind right, thereby ensuring that my presence is know to at least the lead driver, who affects the vehicles following
Yes, it is indeed possible to discuss scenarios that sound so perilous on paper or while just sitting around talking that someone new to this would just shrug their shoulders and not even take a chance out on the road with motorized vehicles, but in reality, a savvy rider will rarely (if ever) fall into situations as discussed above. Avoiding these circumstances in the first place is the best way.
steve
@@EZSteve I understand your strategy for these blind curves, and I suppose it will work in many cases with light traffic, but I doubt it will work well with high traffic. One of the exits of my town (the capital of Bulgaria) is exactly like this - very steep and curve after curve. And since there are villages nearby, sometimes the traffic in both directions is almost continuous - car after a car. Even if you enter the curve without a car behind you, until you finish it some will come for sure. The other thing that will happen is that you will stall the traffic. There is a public transport on this road - busses that drive slower than the cars and they cause lines of 10-15 or more cars behind them. I cannot imagine what could do something riding with 5 km/h :) The drivers here are not very nice and won't tolerate you very long until they try to overtake you even in not very appropriate moments and places. There are cyclists on this road and the cars overtake them all the time, no matter of the place, often not leaving a lot of space.
@@ivanilarionov1893 Those traffic dynamics you discuss sound horrible. Yes, our roadways in all countries are very inadequate, made for motorized vehicles back in the early 1900s, when cars were much smaller and less powerful, with far fewer motorists on those early road systems.
Our societies have not kept pace with the growth of motorized vehicles during the past 100 years or more, so we are left with truly antiquated roadways that are not at all friendly to human powered travelers like cyclists and pedestrians. Governments at all levels rarely see a need to spend huge amounts of their money just to provide safer traveling to cyclists, people they see more as kids or using cycles for recreational purposes.
We are not taken seriously at all, and even here in Oregon, the state in which I live, the "Oregon Coast Bike Route" draws ten thousand cyclists each riding season, and the state benefits tremendously because cyclists like to ride along the Pacific Ocean, but the state has not upgraded the road to modern standards and needs, and has left the cyclists hanging out to dry, with many sections of the road not at all safe for people who pedal for transportation.
Governments as a whole, worldwide, will never take any meaningful attempts to safeguard human powered people ... such people, who do not use cars, are not where the money is, and governments, as we all realize, follow the money always (motorists and motorized transportation bring in the money through commerce, but cyclists have no such roles).
Being a cyclist will always be a challenge when it comes to staying alive and safe in a sea of cars and trucks!
steve
@@EZSteve Some european contries have quite good cycling infrastructure - like Netherlands, Germany, Denmark. But there the cycling is extremely popular way of transportation and they are mostly flat. Here in Bulgaria cycling is growing in popularity, but most of the people still prefer their cars. So on one side there is some pressure for developing inner city cycling infrastructure, but on the other side nobody wants to spend a lot of money for it and to take from the streets to make real bike lanes. This leads to some half baked and even comical and inadequate infrastructure. Like painting a line on the pavement 50cm from the curbs and calling this a bike lane. Or painting lines on the sidewalks which sometimes ends in a tree, or a buss stop. Or they transfer to the other sidewalk without a crossing point.
@@ivanilarionov1893 Fifty centimeters isn't much, and certainly, a painted line won't protect a cyclist. Yes, the one thing we can definitely count on from governments in most locales is that we cyclists are not important enough to keep us safe. I count on myself and my sense of survival when it comes to where, when, and how I should ride. I sure can't count on my elected officials to watch out for me!
steve
excellent.. smart riders ride Recumbent tadpoles..
if you are ever hit... the cost of injury is high.. get an attorney and have them subpoena the drivers phone records for texting and driving.. You camera will give you the exact time/date stamp to prove they were texting..
Delta recumbent far superior if recumbent rider is rear-ended!
ALSO, NO DISASSEMBLY IF A REAR FLAT TIRE OCCURS!
Yep, whether delta or tadpole design, a three wheeled vehicle is much safer than a two wheeled vehicle, which is easily knocked over, sending the rider into a perilous situation. I like bikes too, but as I get older, I value my well-being more and more, so I start thinking about this stuff (which most folks never consider, or figure they'll never get hit ... those two guys who were struck by the judge never thought they would get hit that day either).
steve
@@EZSteve My Friend Steve.. this spring i want to ride over to both, Tillamook or and out to Stanton park campground in Vernonia.. I'm a fare season camper.. don't like the cold or rain.. and they have hot showers/electric for charging lights.. :). Maybe you would want to meet up with me.?
@@rdkuless That would be a ton of fun Rob! I know a guy who has ridden the Banks to Vernonia trail, and he really enjoyed it. I've ridden through Tillamook on my Pacific Coast tour a while back. Lots of great riding in this state. My situation however is that I don't own a car, so to meet up and ride somewhere, I would have to leave from home, make a loop to the destination, and then ride back home, and at this time, that is probably not likely to be a possibility. I am doing my riding these days locally, keeping it short and simple, rather than the ultra long adventures I have taken over the years prior. I think I am getting more reserved and cautious the older I get, not so willing to take on the risks associated with the cross country rides I specialized in during my initial triking years.
steve
Sorry, but if a car is going at a moderate speed, all of the “strong stuff” behind you will fold. It’s either mild steel or malleable aluminum. And the wall thickness of the tubing are not such that they should ever be viewed as a part of some safety cage. Bikes/trikes are made to be strong for their intended use, riding. They are not built to be subjected to impacts or collisions with stationary objects or vehicles like cars and trucks.
That is absolutely correct if a car smacks right into the rear at speed ... no amount of rack is going to stop it. Many times in these "rear end" accidents however, they are glancing blows, which always sends bicyclists careening off their bikes and onto the ground because balance cannot be maintained under those conditions. A recumbent trike may stand a slightly better chance of allowing a modicum of control so the rider may at least be able to steer in a semi-controlled manner off the roadway. Whether on bike or trike, not all car interactions are a given death situation happily. But yes, none of us cyclists can stand up to a motor vehicle, even when they are going "slow" for a car. It's all a matter of pure happenstance how it goes in each situation. High visibility is the key, along with safe riding practices.
steve
@@EZSteve I believe the stability is a very key point. I know for myself I am looking at that as some of my saving grace. And a glancing blow will be very helpful as long as you are afford a glancing blow in the direction of moderate safety.