USB on a server can work, I've done it myself.. but for the $300 you'd spend on this, you can have all the hardware minus drives for the NAS you built on a Supermicro X10SLL server board and no USB compromises. Mine with a Quadro P400, 3 of those WD Red 4 TB drives, 3 SSDs and a 2.5 Gb Nic in it draws under 30 watts at idle, and I still have room for an HBA if I need more storage. Mini-PCs have plenty of utility in a home lab, but I wouldn't use one as a NAS if your drive requirements forced you to use USB storage.
Yep, 200$ price tag or 6hhd support either is better, but in this case, i rather get the nas, and enjoy the wireless life, + i can install casaos, then wire guard and then I can access it from anywhere
Really wish these enclosures had SAS/SATA connectors to bypass the USB entirely for the HD bays-it would still mean bridge chips for the NVMe to SATA, which would probably increase the cost, but I don't really want to connect via USB if I can help it.
hey, im currently thinking about what solution would be the best and thought a mini pc and a usb enclosure would do the trick. Why would you not recommend doing this? What's the advantage of using SATA directly?
@@simon057 reliability. SATA connections just work. SATA drivers are bomb proof, the connectors are physically much more secure than USB, and there is not the data protocol conversion to go through like has to be done with USB.
For a lot less money I've been really impressed by the Syaba 8 bay DAS, which is also over USB. I've had no dropouts that I can perceive, and this is running on a N95 mini PC serving up Jellyfin, SMB, and Hyper-V.
This video came out at the perfect time! I'm looking to use a mini PC as an all-in-one home server for a 2.5gb router, NAS, Plex, etc. Really looking forward to your long term review, especially if things drop out!
$300 too much for that. We should start seeing more offerings like this from other vendors as the chipsets are main stream now. USB by DESIGN is RELIABLE! The problem is the specific chipsets and old firmware on them (both host and device).
The easy way of adding more drives to your home server is to simply buy an ATX/mATX case with a lot of 3.5" slots. People who buy mini PCs for NAS use cases will end up spending more money and taking up about the same space as an mATX case when adding a DAS.
I’d disagree. even an matx case would be much bigger than a DAS and mini pc and if you’re using a mini pc size probably matters to begin with. Do you have any suggestions of an MATX case that has more than 4 3.5” slots?
Terramaster is one of those companies who's products usually make me go "That's cool, but it's also $20-60 more than I'm comfortable paying for that quality of device", and they almost broke the pattern with this one. NVMe storage is too expensive for those transfer speeds, but without those slots it's functionally the same device as it's predecessor, which had the same price problem as always.
The price tag, for something to add 4x SATA plus 4x m.2 device to an existing PC/Server seems to be quite good. But as you mentioned I don’t see a use case for me. With that amount of drives I either would like to use hardware raid spanning ALL drives, or ZFS. But ZFS via USB seems janky. On the other hand I like to see devices with compromises for less money. Thunderbolt would be nice, but I guess it would ramp up the price significantly…
I have been having a similar issue with my zfs pool/samba crashing multiple time throughout the transfer alll the time. Dmesg sadly doesn't show any errors when it happens. I have looked all over, but I haven't been able to find what is causing the issue. It was nice to see that I'm not the only one who has these kinds of dropouts.
@@stan464 well for raid or some other NAS software you need low level access to the drives. Unraid or true as come to mind that don't like USB attached drives
I use a terramaster 4 bay USB Jbod with a mini-pc. Works pretty good, and is fast enough for storing photos and doing my rsync backup from my plex server. It runs nextcloud no problem and I really enjoy how low power my setup is.
I am a newbie when it comes to networking and NAS solutions, but I have a idea of one I want to try but I’m unsure if it’s feasibility. My solution to a small NAS is to use a mini-PC (Beelink Mini S12 Mini PC) with a 128GB NVME M.2 for the OS and Urbackup as the NAS software solution, a 4Tb SATA 2.5 SSD for interior storage expansion. That’s for the first part, the further expansion plan is to attach a 4 Bay HDD Cage Chassis, connecting it to the Beelink through a NVME M-Key PCI Express to SATA 3.0 Adapter Converter Hard Drive Extension Card. My only unsure portion of the NAS, is my decision to power the 4 Bay Chassis using a Pico UPS (24pin DC ATX PSU 12V DC Input DC 12V 150-watt Pico PSU) as the power source attaching a COMeap ATX Power Jumper Cable to turn the chassis on/off. On paper it seems as if it should work but of course like I stated I’m a newbie. What do you think? Would it work?
I'm looking for a way to keep local backups of some of the data on my existing NAS and I feel like this is actually a perfect thing to fill with smallish surplus drives and plug into one of my existing MFF home servers. I was almost resigned to just buying a beefy external HDD but this is a more interesting solution
The reason I'm looking for SSDs is one, for minimum power draw, and two, because I no longer like the idea of mechanical devices being involved with my storage. In case you're looking for an all-M.2 SSD NAS, I figured out how to stuff 32 M.2s into a single PC using not-so-commonly available (but still consumer) hardware. It would use a few PCIe bridges, but ask me how! :-D
@@EVR1AL The key component is the OWC U2 Shuttle - a device with a PCIe bridge that allows you to use 4 M.2 drives from a U.2 connection which uses 4 Gen3 PCIe lanes. On an AM5 motherboard with x4x4x4x4 bifurcation, like the ASRock X670E Steel Legend, you can get a card that will convert an x16 slot into 4 U.2 connectors. These aren’t easy to find, but that’s 16 M.2s already. This same board has 4 M.2 slots, each supplying 4 PCIe lanes, and you guessed it, you can get M.2 to U.2 adapters, for 16 more M.2s. And you still have a Gen3x4 PCIe slot open for a 10GBe network adapter, but if you really want, you could use that slot for… another 4 M.2s.
*Thank you for the video* Yeah, I'm looking at an e-hba card and a similar 4-bay enclosure that accepts both SAS/SATA drives. Slightly more expensive but guaranteed to work flawlessly.
You confirmed my suspicions that true as usb drivers suck I’ve run windows server with a usb pool for five years. When I tried truenas on a mini pc with usb drives, it crapped out in 2 hours
For that pricetag, I would be tempted to get it as a local device-specific bulk storage device, but knowing that I can build my own bulk storage device for less than half that price, makes it a non-starter for me personally. But if they’re reliable long-term, I would definitely suggest someone else in my life to get that since that’s cheap enough and expandable enough to solve the problems of my less tech savvy friends and family.
I agree even a $300-350 5-6 Bay HDD plus 2 M.2 Slot would be much better option for homelab as it could allow you to scale up quickly. Not super familiar with options to connect to DAS but would love something a little bit more reliable than a USB C.
I have no problem with slightly off-center hybrid devices for special use cases. This device seems more like a layered hybrid model where every quirk is built off of another hybrid feature. In addition to the intermittent USB connection, this is probably going to result in a disaster that is difficult if not impossible to resolve. I wouldn't avoid using one if it was available but I'm not exactly seeking something like this out.
Looks like the perfect way to get much more disk space to my growing Jellyfin Library. I started wit 1TB now i am at 2,8TB within 4 Months (all legal btw). I have about 4 TB left, but i think its just a matter of time i need more space :D Greetings from germany
I love the idea especially after looking for a way to upgrade my dads 4 year old qnap again especially when he dosent like it when I use it to live edit for friends or keep my downloads and documents off my pc. Something about a constant live connection that slows it down but regardless of that I hope the qnap could still keep up with say the ms-01 as of hearing about from I think it was ltt computex video idk but it looks like a beast I just hope my dad likes it since he keeps telling me pc hardware can’t work as a server well it can just costs a lot something about putting a loan mower on a push bike over a e-bike again idk. Oooww I wonder how hard it would be to make a 3D printed slide bay case for the qnap and the ms-01 to keep the cables hidden and clean for the tv shelf anyhoo thanks for vod
I like the idea of this device but I think for most people they should just get the D4 because like you were finding fast ssds especially nvme over USB has problems with reliability, whereas I've been running a D4 with all SATA drives on a trueNas system running from a mini PC for several months now without any problems.
Ive always had issues when using usb storage with a server. So i started using unraid with older sata2 host adapters which worked alot better than usb. By never dropping out. But they are much slower when only running sata 2 speeds. My cages for hotswapping drives also are only sata 2. Have 2 four bay and 1 three bay enclosure that fit in 5.25 bays. The 4bays use three 5.25 bays and the 3bay uses two 5.25 bays. My inwin q500 cases both have five 5.25 bays. Plus they fit five or six 3.5 drives internally.
It is definitely the wrong mix of drives. 4x3.5 and 4x2.5 would make more sense, but also just 8x3.5 to just pile on storage. However, I think a smaller enclosure that had 8x2.5 slots for all flash would be an awesome spot for this. The single USB connector I feel precludes the need for NVME. Now I also think bringing all the connections to a switchable option for a 8087 or 8643 connection instead of USB would give even more flexibility, then any system can use the USB connection, but a dedicated workstation could use the higher speed native link
the real issue i have with these nas designs is the cost - why not just use an older pc for more ram, better cpu etc - at serious savings so diy you get the best of both worlds - value and performance. please do an occulink diy nas project and put in fast networking? maybe make it a das
USB storage (any kind, high end or low end) do eventually loose connection and reset themselves, so they are not suitable for VM storage. It disconnects and re-enumerates, which leaves VMs hanging. Run them long enough and they will all disappoint.
This is an interesting product. I'm not sure where it would fit in my life, though. I'd have to find a place for it first. Interesting as always, thanks!
Exactly. Why has no one made a JBOD enclosure with Oculink yet? I don't know if I have even see a USB 4 one yet. It would be perfect to create a low power home NAS with a mini PC.
The prices of these external hard disk enclosures are absolutely inflated. There is no way this thing justifies a price of 300$. For 50$ we can talk about it.
The enclosure itself costs about ten bucks in metal and forming, the backplane and such about twenty, the fans another five, the power supply at least forty for one that you'd actually want to use, then the manufacturing of thd enclosure...I think they're too expensive, too, but 50 bucks would be them selling at a loss just on materials alone.
$50? For an enclosure, multiple PCBs with 4 m.2 slots AND 4 SATA slots and all the associated controllers, power supply, USB 10gbps controller, and a fan. Tell me you know nothing about computers without telling me:
@@surewhynot6259 For 300 I can assemble a computer consisting of a case with at least 4 hard disk bays, power supply, a 13th Gen i3, 32 GB Ram and the matching mainboard (all new). And I'm not even using the very cheapest parts. And I then have a system with which I can fully utilize the performance of the drives (especially the SSDs). There are even complete 4-bay NAS systems starting at 150. Even if the manufacturing costs were that high (and they aren't), there would hardly be a reason for this product category to exist. But apparently there are enough people (apple users?) who simply don't care about price performance.🤷♂
For 300 I can assemble a computer consisting of a case with at least 4 hard disk bays, power supply, a 13th Gen i3, 32 GB Ram and the matching mainboard (all new). And I'm not even using the very cheapest parts. And I then have a system with which I can fully utilize the performance of the drives (especially the SSDs). There are even complete 4-bay NAS systems starting at 150. Even if the manufacturing costs were that high (and they aren't), there would hardly be a reason for this product category to exist. But apparently there are enough people (apple users?) who simply don't care about price performance.
I have never had good luck with USB storage, and I've never had good luck with lots of USB devices all at once, hanging eight drives off one USB bus is cursed and I want nothing to do with it.
13:29 I wonder if the higher random read bandwidth vs. sequential might be because the drive can split the load over multiple NAND chips when it's random...
I like you videos! Please consider being other NVME SSDs. These when filled with more than 250GB will drop to 70MB/s. You can find plenty of Amazon reviews and independent tests.
These nas solutions always seem short sighted to me when you can get a Rosewill RSV-L4412U that has 3 times the hot swap sata storage, pair that with a sas card/expander, and you aren't limited to the performance of whatever chipset terramaster puts in them. Yes you end up paying more but being able to swap out hardware as things need updating means you won't need to retire the entire device nearly as quickly.
Always go for the G4 generation of the HP elitedesk machines, they have 10gb/s usb. I'm running Unraid on a HP ELITEDESK 800 G4 with an i5-8500T, internal nvme cache drive and a TerraMaster D6-320, which can hold up to 6 drives. Works great so far.
The enclosure are crying out for an ethernet port. So you can use it as a NAS or a DAS. The lack of any cooling for the M.2s could be a problem, if you do a massive amount of content ingestion.
Will this SSD fit in the U2 slot of the Minisfoorum MS-01 and function without any issues? It's a Western Digital Ultrastar DC SN650, U.3, 15MM, 15,360GB, 2.5-inch, PCIe 4??
the asmedia chips are a cheap way to turn usb to sata and usb to pcie and not worth as an NAS unless its an external hdd enclosure but then ur DIY nas are much superior for 200$
I've had so many problem running a raid with a usb enclosure , had so many problem how it would pass the drives , with the same serial no and model , plus tons of error before it would drop a disk .
It's not a bottleneck at all. It won't stall your 4k video over USB, you can still send files over USB just as fast as 1gb ethernet. 10 or 100 GB for home use reminds me of people that buy Hellcats buy never have raced them.
This is the issue the RTL9210 and the RTL9210b are shit chips, i have tried running a pair of usb nvme enclosures with those chips in raid1 and direct and there are issues with random crashes and disconnects(brand makes no difference), Even after updating their firmware not much improves. We are at a stage where usb to sata is rock solid but usb to pcie(nvme) is still shit. Can't find a single non thunderbolt chip that is stable. The day such a chip exists is the day where a usb4 40gb/ usb 20GB dual mode enclosure will be stable and possible.
@@marcogenovesi8570 I get ya, but a company of this size was not going to make a wide portfolio of offerings and not build them, but for tiny POCs at smaller companies, yeah, that's the whole point of crowd funding.
good luck getting the full performance of those drives with the bottleneck of the single usb 3.2 port on the back. this is not a good replacement for a nas if you need fast data transfer speeds.
For me, it seems like a waste of money for janky hardware with limitations. I'm not sure who their target audience is for this. But thank you for the comprehensive review!
i have 2 hdd drives conecting with sata and im using truenas scale inside proxmox with sata controller passthrough , drives are mirror and im having the same problem with 0 speed transfering files frequently , what do u suggest?
Can you do a video like "cool things to do with rs232(serial port)"? Its 2024 and a lot of mobos still bring it. I guess its useless. Maybe you can show me i'm wrong LOL
I have tested connecting different SSD to TrueNAS and even Debian with ZFS - always the same problem. But not only SSD - enything related to USB connection. And ZFS. Probably ZFS/TrueNAS acts differently on disks and USB is not its fafourite.
This seems to be just an external hard drive on steroids. I can see it in a video editor's office who comes with a MacBook and just plugs the usb-c in. Not for any networked/nas usage
These manufacturers can't do an enclosure with a PCIe card half height half lenght for a better connectivity? Also someone need to do the 10 inch rack if somebody really care about home rack. (Yes, it's a norm for home)
Kickstarter and that USB Cutouts make that thing simply not worth it for anything. Because, if you need a backup, which should be reliable i don’t pickup one of those. I can see that thing freaking out frequently on backup creation and when you need the backup the most it wouldn’t be there. No thanks Edit: And if i look up on amazon there are USB to M.2 Adapters for around 19 Bucks each per NVMe SSD, which are 86 in Total, but you need 3 USB Ports and SATA USB Adapters for around 8 bucks each, which add it up to 108 Bucks in Total, if you want to go over USB, for some weird reason. So how the heck did they come to the price point of freaking 300 Bucks for this?! Even if i add a good USB Hub i don’t come to that price. Sry absolutely not worth it.
200 and especially 300 dollar pricetag is crazy expensive for a plastic enclosure with a 5 dollar PCB with sata ports. this couldn't have cost them more than 40 dollars a unit
Brownies Recipe Ingredients: 140 grams of chocolade 4 eggs 300 grams of sugar 120 grams of flour 250 grams of butter Preparation: 1) Preheat the oven to 160 °C. 2) Beat the eggs with the sugar. Do this using a mixer. 3) Melt the chocolate with the butter. 4) Mix the egg mixture with the melted chocolate butter. 5) Mix in the flour. 6) Bake for 35 minutes in small in a large low mould.
If you're just gonna store "home" movies, shows and music for your Plex / Jellyfin stuff it'll be more than enough coupled with an NUC that supports thunderbolt 10gbps. Way better solution than stacking external HDDs and their poorly designed power bricks and plugging them into a usb hub.
Mixed bag of feelings. Nice setup (4+4 makes some sense) but "unoptimal" execution (1 sata 2 port controller, 2 sata controllers for drive 3 and 4, 4 USB to PCIe controllers for NVMe). Reasonable size but complicated and "too tailored" user scenarios for RAID0, RAID1 and so on. Reasonable capable connection, but this box calls Thunderbolt, USB4 or OcuLink for earn full advantage of NVMes Probably as engineer and cost-to-functionality ratio makes more sense that I can't understand (I know nothing about product and board design) but... how much far from this is, pricely speaking, a 2 bay/2NVMe NAS? I can't really see any fitting scenario for my brains. Also: with 7 USB to something chips in there, this box is a overbuilt USB hub with storage bays. Probably version 2 will be designed in a different way, a way that I could find with a salt of more sense. It's the second box coming from a crowfunding project, yet from known brands in this channel.
It's hardly worth the $200 price tag seeing the build quality and simplicity of it. It's a cheap enclosure + electronics of a 4 bay HDD to USB dock + 4 slow nvme readers + pcie packet switch so like total of $50-100 in electronics, and sell price should be like $150.
too expensive for what it can actually do, the USB portion clearly is a design mistake, should have opted for higher speed usb, creating a hybrid spinning / m.2 is not a bad idea on it's own, but only enabling hardware raid on the first 2 spinning drives is questionable at best. this device has too many limitations to actually be useful
Thanks for the information about passing through the serial numbers. That was information that I couldn't find anywhere else.
_Serial number passthrough_ in TrueNAS is shown at 5:50 in the video, for anyone who might have missed it or wants to revisit that part.
USB on a server can work, I've done it myself.. but for the $300 you'd spend on this, you can have all the hardware minus drives for the NAS you built on a Supermicro X10SLL server board and no USB compromises. Mine with a Quadro P400, 3 of those WD Red 4 TB drives, 3 SSDs and a 2.5 Gb Nic in it draws under 30 watts at idle, and I still have room for an HBA if I need more storage. Mini-PCs have plenty of utility in a home lab, but I wouldn't use one as a NAS if your drive requirements forced you to use USB storage.
Which case did you use?
@@angryox3102 Currently it's in an old desktop case I had lying around.
Yep, 200$ price tag or 6hhd support either is better, but in this case, i rather get the nas, and enjoy the wireless life, + i can install casaos, then wire guard and then I can access it from anywhere
Factoring costs basically same
Lol or network mount it and run a tailscale subnet with this device and the same thing
Really wish these enclosures had SAS/SATA connectors to bypass the USB entirely for the HD bays-it would still mean bridge chips for the NVMe to SATA, which would probably increase the cost, but I don't really want to connect via USB if I can help it.
hey, im currently thinking about what solution would be the best and thought a mini pc and a usb enclosure would do the trick. Why would you not recommend doing this? What's the advantage of using SATA directly?
@@simon057 reliability. SATA connections just work. SATA drivers are bomb proof, the connectors are physically much more secure than USB, and there is not the data protocol conversion to go through like has to be done with USB.
For a lot less money I've been really impressed by the Syaba 8 bay DAS, which is also over USB. I've had no dropouts that I can perceive, and this is running on a N95 mini PC serving up Jellyfin, SMB, and Hyper-V.
This video came out at the perfect time! I'm looking to use a mini PC as an all-in-one home server for a 2.5gb router, NAS, Plex, etc. Really looking forward to your long term review, especially if things drop out!
$300 too much for that.
We should start seeing more offerings like this from other vendors as the chipsets are main stream now.
USB by DESIGN is RELIABLE!
The problem is the specific chipsets and old firmware on them (both host and device).
The easy way of adding more drives to your home server is to simply buy an ATX/mATX case with a lot of 3.5" slots. People who buy mini PCs for NAS use cases will end up spending more money and taking up about the same space as an mATX case when adding a DAS.
I’d disagree. even an matx case would be much bigger than a DAS and mini pc and if you’re using a mini pc size probably matters to begin with. Do you have any suggestions of an MATX case that has more than 4 3.5” slots?
@@wojtek-33 thanks for the suggestions! Both look good but still a bit bigger. Very cool though if you want more powerful hardware
price is too high vs diy
Terramaster is one of those companies who's products usually make me go "That's cool, but it's also $20-60 more than I'm comfortable paying for that quality of device", and they almost broke the pattern with this one. NVMe storage is too expensive for those transfer speeds, but without those slots it's functionally the same device as it's predecessor, which had the same price problem as always.
The price tag, for something to add 4x SATA plus 4x m.2 device to an existing PC/Server seems to be quite good. But as you mentioned I don’t see a use case for me. With that amount of drives I either would like to use hardware raid spanning ALL drives, or ZFS. But ZFS via USB seems janky.
On the other hand I like to see devices with compromises for less money.
Thunderbolt would be nice, but I guess it would ramp up the price significantly…
I have been having a similar issue with my zfs pool/samba crashing multiple time throughout the transfer alll the time. Dmesg sadly doesn't show any errors when it happens. I have looked all over, but I haven't been able to find what is causing the issue. It was nice to see that I'm not the only one who has these kinds of dropouts.
19:42
I'm sure it will work for years, look at the chia handbook, people have done it for 200TB total USB connected to usb pi's, much less a pc.
I wish this was just a dumb 4 bay with either a sff-8088 or sff-8644 and sas support.
Qnap has drive enclosures like that.
Stick an external card in the mini PC and you can add 4 HDDS via sata to your PC
@@BR0KK85But then you are stuck paying 3/4 the price for something similar.
@@stan464 well for raid or some other NAS software you need low level access to the drives. Unraid or true as come to mind that don't like USB attached drives
@@BR0KK85can you tell me a specific qnap enclosure model number like that? Not sure what to look for
I use a terramaster 4 bay USB Jbod with a mini-pc. Works pretty good, and is fast enough for storing photos and doing my rsync backup from my plex server. It runs nextcloud no problem and I really enjoy how low power my setup is.
I am a newbie when it comes to networking and NAS solutions, but I have a idea of one I want to try but I’m unsure if it’s feasibility. My solution to a small NAS is to use a mini-PC (Beelink Mini S12 Mini PC) with a 128GB NVME M.2 for the OS and Urbackup as the NAS software solution, a 4Tb SATA 2.5 SSD for interior storage expansion. That’s for the first part, the further expansion plan is to attach a 4 Bay HDD Cage Chassis, connecting it to the Beelink through a NVME M-Key PCI Express to SATA 3.0 Adapter Converter Hard Drive Extension Card. My only unsure portion of the NAS, is my decision to power the 4 Bay Chassis using a Pico UPS (24pin DC ATX PSU 12V DC Input DC 12V 150-watt Pico PSU) as the power source attaching a COMeap ATX Power Jumper Cable to turn the chassis on/off. On paper it seems as if it should work but of course like I stated I’m a newbie. What do you think? Would it work?
I'm looking for a way to keep local backups of some of the data on my existing NAS and I feel like this is actually a perfect thing to fill with smallish surplus drives and plug into one of my existing MFF home servers.
I was almost resigned to just buying a beefy external HDD but this is a more interesting solution
The reason I'm looking for SSDs is one, for minimum power draw, and two, because I no longer like the idea of mechanical devices being involved with my storage. In case you're looking for an all-M.2 SSD NAS, I figured out how to stuff 32 M.2s into a single PC using not-so-commonly available (but still consumer) hardware. It would use a few PCIe bridges, but ask me how! :-D
How? 1 m2 for 1 PCI lane?
@@EVR1AL The key component is the OWC U2 Shuttle - a device with a PCIe bridge that allows you to use 4 M.2 drives from a U.2 connection which uses 4 Gen3 PCIe lanes. On an AM5 motherboard with x4x4x4x4 bifurcation, like the ASRock X670E Steel Legend, you can get a card that will convert an x16 slot into 4 U.2 connectors. These aren’t easy to find, but that’s 16 M.2s already. This same board has 4 M.2 slots, each supplying 4 PCIe lanes, and you guessed it, you can get M.2 to U.2 adapters, for 16 more M.2s. And you still have a Gen3x4 PCIe slot open for a 10GBe network adapter, but if you really want, you could use that slot for… another 4 M.2s.
Thanks for the review as I am looking at a way to add more disks to my Unraid server. Cheers from Nova Scotia...
*Thank you for the video*
Yeah, I'm looking at an e-hba card and a similar 4-bay enclosure that accepts both SAS/SATA drives. Slightly more expensive but guaranteed to work flawlessly.
You confirmed my suspicions that true as usb drivers suck
I’ve run windows server with a usb pool for five years. When I tried truenas on a mini pc with usb drives, it crapped out in 2 hours
I mean you might get better speeds with a M.2 to sata adapter but this is neater.
plus this could be a fairly substantial small backup drive storage.
for me its easy with the right sata cables for some of the drives though i need to work on cable management
For that pricetag, I would be tempted to get it as a local device-specific bulk storage device, but knowing that I can build my own bulk storage device for less than half that price, makes it a non-starter for me personally. But if they’re reliable long-term, I would definitely suggest someone else in my life to get that since that’s cheap enough and expandable enough to solve the problems of my less tech savvy friends and family.
I agree even a $300-350 5-6 Bay HDD plus 2 M.2 Slot would be much better option for homelab as it could allow you to scale up quickly. Not super familiar with options to connect to DAS but would love something a little bit more reliable than a USB C.
I have no problem with slightly off-center hybrid devices for special use cases. This device seems more like a layered hybrid model where every quirk is built off of another hybrid feature. In addition to the intermittent USB connection, this is probably going to result in a disaster that is difficult if not impossible to resolve. I wouldn't avoid using one if it was available but I'm not exactly seeking something like this out.
I think success in life should be measured in the number of days you took naps during the day!
Or by the number of cups of coffees consumed
Looks like the perfect way to get much more disk space to my growing Jellyfin Library. I started wit 1TB now i am at 2,8TB within 4 Months (all legal btw). I have about 4 TB left, but i think its just a matter of time i need more space :D
Greetings from germany
I love the idea especially after looking for a way to upgrade my dads 4 year old qnap again especially when he dosent like it when I use it to live edit for friends or keep my downloads and documents off my pc. Something about a constant live connection that slows it down but regardless of that I hope the qnap could still keep up with say the ms-01 as of hearing about from I think it was ltt computex video idk but it looks like a beast I just hope my dad likes it since he keeps telling me pc hardware can’t work as a server well it can just costs a lot something about putting a loan mower on a push bike over a e-bike again idk.
Oooww I wonder how hard it would be to make a 3D printed slide bay case for the qnap and the ms-01 to keep the cables hidden and clean for the tv shelf anyhoo thanks for vod
I like the idea of this device but I think for most people they should just get the D4 because like you were finding fast ssds especially nvme over USB has problems with reliability, whereas I've been running a D4 with all SATA drives on a trueNas system running from a mini PC for several months now without any problems.
Ive always had issues when using usb storage with a server. So i started using unraid with older sata2 host adapters which worked alot better than usb. By never dropping out. But they are much slower when only running sata 2 speeds. My cages for hotswapping drives also are only sata 2. Have 2 four bay and 1 three bay enclosure that fit in 5.25 bays. The 4bays use three 5.25 bays and the 3bay uses two 5.25 bays. My inwin q500 cases both have five 5.25 bays. Plus they fit five or six 3.5 drives internally.
It is definitely the wrong mix of drives. 4x3.5 and 4x2.5 would make more sense, but also just 8x3.5 to just pile on storage. However, I think a smaller enclosure that had 8x2.5 slots for all flash would be an awesome spot for this. The single USB connector I feel precludes the need for NVME. Now I also think bringing all the connections to a switchable option for a 8087 or 8643 connection instead of USB would give even more flexibility, then any system can use the USB connection, but a dedicated workstation could use the higher speed native link
the real issue i have with these nas designs is the cost - why not just use an older pc for more ram, better cpu etc - at serious savings so diy you get the best of both worlds - value and performance. please do an occulink diy nas project and put in fast networking? maybe make it a das
Does this machine connect using UASP. As a lot of USB DASs say they do. Yet it does not work.
USB storage (any kind, high end or low end) do eventually loose connection and reset themselves, so they are not suitable for VM storage. It disconnects and re-enumerates, which leaves VMs hanging. Run them long enough and they will all disappoint.
This is an interesting product. I'm not sure where it would fit in my life, though. I'd have to find a place for it first. Interesting as always, thanks!
Replace the USB connection with Oculink and then I might be interested.
Exactly. Why has no one made a JBOD enclosure with Oculink yet? I don't know if I have even see a USB 4 one yet. It would be perfect to create a low power home NAS with a mini PC.
I wonder if an m.2 to 5x SATA adapter would work with this.
The prices of these external hard disk enclosures are absolutely inflated. There is no way this thing justifies a price of 300$. For 50$ we can talk about it.
The enclosure itself costs about ten bucks in metal and forming, the backplane and such about twenty, the fans another five, the power supply at least forty for one that you'd actually want to use, then the manufacturing of thd enclosure...I think they're too expensive, too, but 50 bucks would be them selling at a loss just on materials alone.
$50? For an enclosure, multiple PCBs with 4 m.2 slots AND 4 SATA slots and all the associated controllers, power supply, USB 10gbps controller, and a fan. Tell me you know nothing about computers without telling me:
@@surewhynot6259 For 300 I can assemble a computer consisting of a case with at least 4 hard disk bays, power supply, a 13th Gen i3, 32 GB Ram and the matching mainboard (all new). And I'm not even using the very cheapest parts. And I then have a system with which I can fully utilize the performance of the drives (especially the SSDs).
There are even complete 4-bay NAS systems starting at 150.
Even if the manufacturing costs were that high (and they aren't), there would hardly be a reason for this product category to exist. But apparently there are enough people (apple users?) who simply don't care about price performance.🤷♂
For 300 I can assemble a computer consisting of a case with at least 4 hard disk bays, power supply, a 13th Gen i3, 32 GB Ram and the matching mainboard (all new). And I'm not even using the very cheapest parts. And I then have a system with which I can fully utilize the performance of the drives (especially the SSDs).
There are even complete 4-bay NAS systems starting at 150.
Even if the manufacturing costs were that high (and they aren't), there would hardly be a reason for this product category to exist. But apparently there are enough people (apple users?) who simply don't care about price performance.
If this was made with thunderbolt, it would probably make a lot more homelab sense.
I have never had good luck with USB storage, and I've never had good luck with lots of USB devices all at once, hanging eight drives off one USB bus is cursed and I want nothing to do with it.
13:29 I wonder if the higher random read bandwidth vs. sequential might be because the drive can split the load over multiple NAND chips when it's random...
Reminds me of a more modern Drobo 5C. But without the Drobo version of RAID built in.
I like you videos!
Please consider being other NVME SSDs. These when filled with more than 250GB will drop to 70MB/s.
You can find plenty of Amazon reviews and independent tests.
Hi, love the videos as always, but I hear a clock in the back ground and it drives me insane, perhaps you can move it somewhere further away, thanks
These nas solutions always seem short sighted to me when you can get a Rosewill RSV-L4412U that has 3 times the hot swap sata storage, pair that with a sas card/expander, and you aren't limited to the performance of whatever chipset terramaster puts in them. Yes you end up paying more but being able to swap out hardware as things need updating means you won't need to retire the entire device nearly as quickly.
How are you liking the MS-01? I'm absolutely in love with mine, primarily gaming, recording, editing. with a thunderbolt E-GPU
the F4-212 is not available or purchase yet, but it's been on their site for months
Might be nice for offsite backups
Always go for the G4 generation of the HP elitedesk machines, they have 10gb/s usb. I'm running Unraid on a HP ELITEDESK 800 G4 with an i5-8500T, internal nvme cache drive and a TerraMaster D6-320, which can hold up to 6 drives. Works great so far.
The enclosure are crying out for an ethernet port. So you can use it as a NAS or a DAS. The lack of any cooling for the M.2s could be a problem, if you do a massive amount of content ingestion.
needs TB 4 or 5 and I'd buy asap
Where can I find the info charts you have for motherboard info. (Different video I know😅)
Will this SSD fit in the U2 slot of the Minisfoorum MS-01 and function without any issues? It's a Western Digital Ultrastar DC SN650, U.3, 15MM, 15,360GB, 2.5-inch, PCIe 4??
It sounds good, but I personally would have preferred an NVME DAS
This may be secretly a 20/24 HDD "NAS" , buy 4 M.2 to 4/5 Sata adapters
The UGREEN NAS completely decimates this...
UGREEN OS not ready for Prime Time.
the asmedia chips are a cheap way to turn usb to sata and usb to pcie and not worth as an NAS unless its an external hdd enclosure
but then ur DIY nas are much superior for 200$
NVME is not hotplugable because of pcie so that could be the reason for the errors.
I do like watching your videos, but the NAS is too expensive.
Does the D8 Hybrid work with Synology/Xpenology NAS?
I've had so many problem running a raid with a usb enclosure , had so many problem how it would pass the drives , with the same serial no and model , plus tons of error before it would drop a disk .
It's funny to hear you say 10gb bottleneck when I'm only running 1gb.
It's not a bottleneck at all. It won't stall your 4k video over USB, you can still send files over USB just as fast as 1gb ethernet. 10 or 100 GB for home use reminds me of people that buy Hellcats buy never have raced them.
This is the issue the RTL9210 and the RTL9210b are shit chips, i have tried running a pair of usb nvme enclosures with those chips in raid1 and direct and there are issues with random crashes and disconnects(brand makes no difference), Even after updating their firmware not much improves. We are at a stage where usb to sata is rock solid but usb to pcie(nvme) is still shit. Can't find a single non thunderbolt chip that is stable. The day such a chip exists is the day where a usb4 40gb/ usb 20GB dual mode enclosure will be stable and possible.
sounds like a good plan of companies to ask upfront if someone may buy their products
These companies WILL produce this stuff, it is just marketing with an earlybird discount. It's false modesty
Lol. This is cloudfunding while pretending to be testing the water.
@@testshoot these crowdfundings are usually to test how big the first run will be
@@marcogenovesi8570 I get ya, but a company of this size was not going to make a wide portfolio of offerings and not build them, but for tiny POCs at smaller companies, yeah, that's the whole point of crowd funding.
good luck getting the full performance of those drives with the bottleneck of the single usb 3.2 port on the back. this is not a good replacement for a nas if you need fast data transfer speeds.
For me, it seems like a waste of money for janky hardware with limitations. I'm not sure who their target audience is for this. But thank you for the comprehensive review!
Exactly my problem right now... 😂
i have 2 hdd drives conecting with sata and im using truenas scale inside proxmox with sata controller passthrough , drives are mirror and im having the same problem with 0 speed transfering files frequently , what do u suggest?
Not bad. I think they should have just stuck with the hard disk bays and brought the price down. Or made the SSD storage a separate device
Can you do a video like "cool things to do with rs232(serial port)"? Its 2024 and a lot of mobos still bring it. I guess its useless. Maybe you can show me i'm wrong LOL
Why usb? This is just stupid with 4 nvme slots, even the 4 hdds will fully saturate the 10gbit
I have tested connecting different SSD to TrueNAS and even Debian with ZFS - always the same problem. But not only SSD - enything related to USB connection. And ZFS. Probably ZFS/TrueNAS acts differently on disks and USB is not its fafourite.
maybe if it has at least thunderbolt 3 or a nic.
This seems to be just an external hard drive on steroids. I can see it in a video editor's office who comes with a MacBook and just plugs the usb-c in. Not for any networked/nas usage
Not sure why you are getting 5gb on the HP 800 G6. That's mean't to be a 10gb USB port.
but why use a NAS when you can put multiple SATA3 drives on a potato. you get the operating system functions by default on the side.
These manufacturers can't do an enclosure with a PCIe card half height half lenght for a better connectivity?
Also someone need to do the 10 inch rack if somebody really care about home rack. (Yes, it's a norm for home)
any good better value for money can someone suggest please
Man i wanna see you do lto video once… or bluray maybe
A better external connector or the driver work for USB is NEEDED. Either way it's ridiculous it's not done.
Kickstarter and that USB Cutouts make that thing simply not worth it for anything. Because, if you need a backup, which should be reliable i don’t pickup one of those. I can see that thing freaking out frequently on backup creation and when you need the backup the most it wouldn’t be there. No thanks
Edit:
And if i look up on amazon there are USB to M.2 Adapters for around 19 Bucks each per NVMe SSD, which are 86 in Total, but you need 3 USB Ports and SATA USB Adapters for around 8 bucks each, which add it up to 108 Bucks in Total, if you want to go over USB, for some weird reason. So how the heck did they come to the price point of freaking 300 Bucks for this?! Even if i add a good USB Hub i don’t come to that price. Sry absolutely not worth it.
Maybe off topic but it feels like TrueNAS is becoming less and less a good choice for home users.
USB4 would make more sense for having 4 nvme ports honestly
Nas is like. Nas is like. Nas is like. Nas is like.
at least your sponsor doesn't sell your user data, I might actually check them out... yes, please screen all your sponsors
200 and especially 300 dollar pricetag is crazy expensive for a plastic enclosure with a 5 dollar PCB with sata ports. this couldn't have cost them more than 40 dollars a unit
That's two now
200$ is more than my whole server is worth...
Brownies Recipe
Ingredients:
140 grams of chocolade
4 eggs
300 grams of sugar
120 grams of flour
250 grams of butter
Preparation:
1) Preheat the oven to 160 °C.
2) Beat the eggs with the sugar. Do this using a mixer.
3) Melt the chocolate with the butter.
4) Mix the egg mixture with the melted chocolate butter.
5) Mix in the flour.
6) Bake for 35 minutes in small in a large low mould.
If you're just gonna store "home" movies, shows and music for your Plex / Jellyfin stuff it'll be more than enough coupled with an NUC that supports thunderbolt 10gbps.
Way better solution than stacking external HDDs and their poorly designed power bricks and plugging them into a usb hub.
Mixed bag of feelings.
Nice setup (4+4 makes some sense) but "unoptimal" execution (1 sata 2 port controller, 2 sata controllers for drive 3 and 4, 4 USB to PCIe controllers for NVMe).
Reasonable size but complicated and "too tailored" user scenarios for RAID0, RAID1 and so on.
Reasonable capable connection, but this box calls Thunderbolt, USB4 or OcuLink for earn full advantage of NVMes
Probably as engineer and cost-to-functionality ratio makes more sense that I can't understand (I know nothing about product and board design) but... how much far from this is, pricely speaking, a 2 bay/2NVMe NAS? I can't really see any fitting scenario for my brains.
Also: with 7 USB to something chips in there, this box is a overbuilt USB hub with storage bays. Probably version 2 will be designed in a different way, a way that I could find with a salt of more sense.
It's the second box coming from a crowfunding project, yet from known brands in this channel.
I like the idea behind this product, but USB is a dealbreaker for me. If this would've featured an eSATA or SAS port, I'd open my wallet immediately.
No SSD cooling... :|
It's hardly worth the $200 price tag seeing the build quality and simplicity of it.
It's a cheap enclosure + electronics of a 4 bay HDD to USB dock + 4 slow nvme readers + pcie packet switch so like total of $50-100 in electronics, and sell price should be like $150.
I LOVE YPU
usb enclosures chokes data transfers on a single wire
too expensive for what it can actually do, the USB portion clearly is a design mistake, should have opted for higher speed usb, creating a hybrid spinning / m.2 is not a bad idea on it's own, but only enabling hardware raid on the first 2 spinning drives is questionable at best. this device has too many limitations to actually be useful
Too many drawbacks for this to be viable. Seems like they just threw features at it to make it sounds good in marketing.
Very expensive in any case, not worth it.