The Japanese keep redesigning and improving their cars, while the American automakers just give up and cancel it when sells poorly instead of making it better
Here in SoCal, where I've attended hundreds of car shows through the years, I never, repeat never have seen one of these rare beauties on display...nor on the road for that matter. Beautiful design and concept; I now want one!
My friends’ father ran a driving school and bought an ‘82 Olds Omega. I learned to drive in that car and thought it was an easy to drive, comfortable, good handling car. It must have been reliable because I saw him use it every day and racked up about 200,000 miles on it.
I drove a 1981 and 1982 4-cylinder versions, fleet cars for company. They both were fine cars. Both were hatchback versions and very very roomy and versatile. As a company car I like them but they were smaller than what I used to have, and the 4-cylinder had almost no power. But in those years, almost no cars had power!
The citation is the base pillar of the other problems GM had in the 80s-90s. With that being said I do own a 1980 X11 2dr coupe (not hatch back). It's fun to drive and was also my daily while I was swapping head gaskets in my truck.
In 1980 my GF mom was given 4 dr. Auto 4cyl Citation and I drove that car a lot from Mass to Maine for many years and always impressed at the room and the power for a 4 cyl.
I wish I could find an X11 in mint condition. Good stuff as always my friend. You're welcome to do a reaction video of my X Car video. It is one of my most controversial efforts not only due to the subject mater, but also due to my unconventional and rather experimental... visual references and accoutrements. lol
My older brother had a X11. It looked the part but was woefully doomed to constant failure. He liked but it was the reason he ended getting a 1976 Duster coupe with a slant 6. Had the Strasky and Hutch paint scheme. Shortly after that he went import and has never really came back.
Jon, the joke at our shop was the Citations all came with rear window defrosters to keep your hands warm while you were pushing them. In my opinion this was one of the biggest piles of junk my shop worked on. The big 3 just could not build reliable small cars in the eighties. The GM V6 vibrated so much we called it a paint shaker, and vibrations can cause a lot of problems. I have to agree with you about the Citation, but at the same time I have a Dodge Colt story no one would believe.
I made a presentation about GM and to simbolise the contrast between "the good days and the nasties" I put the OG 66 Toronado on top and a Citation on the bottom I still look at that slide and think "I could have not have summarised it any better" In GM's heyday whatever compromise was made for profotability was not "apparent for the avg customer", many cars like "descended from the hyper uranium of stylists' ideas". In the 1980s constraints were so strong GM became synonymous with lazy rebadging.
A guy who lives near me has an old Citation. It's been parked in his driveway for years, awaiting restoration, with no progress yet. The first time I saw it I was like "holy crap, a Citation. I haven't seen one of those in decades".
I won a red 1981 X11 from a raffle. What a fun and very versatile car at that time. I really miss it. Reliability was pretty good actually. Great handling and power from the 2.8 litre V6. Wish I had it today.
Interesting to think that with inflation, that's roughly $31k. A new Civic Si, which I guess would be "comparable" (i.e. sporty version of an economy car) is $29k.
My Dad was a tool & die maker for GM for 35.2 years. He was always amused, and impressed with the influence of Ross Perot. His famous quote: "Trying to get GM to be economically efficient is like trying to teach an elephant to tap dance." GM bought him out of influence by paying him $75M, or was it $750M? The latter I think. Their egos could not stomach Perot's honesty.
I feel, and felt at the time, that GM missed an opportunity by not offering the sporty handling and trim on the 4 door also. That would have been more of a challenge to the competition. Sportiness with practicality.
The only reason I know the Citation is because when I was a kid, some friends of the family bought one in 1980 _or_ 1981. It was a Maroonish/Purplish colour. Another reason is because I come from a drag racing family and in 1980 Funny Car driver, Billy Meyer, fielded a Citation bodied car (one of the most impressive looking Funny Cars to this day {Yellow, Hawaiian Tropic Sponsor} look it up!) and finally a mint Citation appeared out of _nowhere_ on my Grandma's Street a few years ago (it stood out like a lighthouse in the blackest night) Bright red, with silver trim, rustless and sounded nice. The Citation is not on my radar of favorite cars or anything (although as time progresses and vehicles become more and more "amoeba" shaped and ugly and priced out of range of the regular folks) more cars of the 1980's _creep_ into my "wheel house". These are topic vehicles that I will always look at. Have you ever done the Chevy Celebrity? (my 1st car. a handmedown from parents. A 1984 Chevy Celebrity _Eurosport_ Wagon. (84's were the nicest looking year) Anyways, thanks for a swell show on something different! Addendum: In 1984, The Citation was "branded" the _Citatation II_ even though Chevy didn't do a thing to warrant the name change...LOL!
GM’s hubris was shining brightly when they engineered these X-bodies. My relatives owned an ‘84 Skylark Limited sedan…while plush and comfortable, the car was a mechanical disaster from day one (2 auto transmission failures, steering rack replacement and chronic overheating issues most noteworthy). With the arrival of more and more Japanese competition by the early 80s, GM (and the Big 3 as a whole) really doomed themselves with such half-baked products.
I had an Olds Omega. Best looking and riding pile of crap ever to roll out on four wheels. Trunk would fill with water, dump transmission fluid at random times, stalled when breaking hard or cornering (Simple fix, but took too long to figure it out), clear coat that might as well have been skipped for the length it lasted. About the only good thing was the price, $600.
The X-11 would make for a fun project car. Upgrades would include: -SC 3800 engine -4 wheel anti-lock disk brakes -improved suspension -OBD2 diagnostics -new dash with a horizontal radio and HVAC -16" GM wheels...IROC? Have I left anything out?
I remember when these cars were new. I thought they really looked great, but I guess the quality was bad. I also remember riding in a 1980s Honda Accord, and it really amazed me how it rode. I can see why the Japanese dominated car sales because the engineering and build quality were great.
I am not a fan of the X-body cars(including the Citation). They just weren't made right. The X-11 was a bad attempt at a performance version. By the way, I believe the Dodge Aspen and Plymouth Volare were recalled more than the X-body cars.
I've read before the X-body cars were the most recalled, but I've never actually found an article or data that summarizes that. I'd love to do an episode about the most recalled cars, but what little info I find is not exactly reliable.
I had an '82. I thought it was a great driving car for the time. Mine was even modified by Bill Mitchel of Special Vehicle Development in Cheshire CT. It was lowered, aluminum engine cradle bushings, Koni gas shocks, poly urethane engine dog bone bar, no cat, etc. It became really formidable. Unfortunately, by about 65Kmi, it was done. Everything imaginable that could've gone bad went bad. Leaks, milkshakes, bad wheel hub bearings... The transaxle needed rebuilding too...Oh yeah...Even the rod bearings went bad. There was a secret campaign in which GM rebuilt the engine due to the milkshakes. And a recall to replace the 2 pc rope rear main seal with an angular seal. Which still leaked. Great concept and general design. Horribly bad execution, imo.
I remember the X cars well. The X11 looks great. It is sad. They really could have had it all. We had a Celebrity Eurosprt wagon with the 2800, it was a nice motor.
Braking problems have been fixed. *Ends stop 45° off center* The 80's had different standards. The brakes were never fixed. Just made not as bad. I may have the wrong platform, but I believe GM got in a bit of trouble for tweaking the EPA milage tests over them.
It does go to show how 40 years of progress has changed our expectations of a car's braking ability. The X-bodies still had drum type brakes in the rear and discs up front. That setup commonly resulted in the front wheels coming to a stop before the back wheels would resulting in the back swinging out due to rear end momentum. Even in the early 90's this type of swing out wasn't eliminated on economy cars. When I was in high school in the early 90's my mom had a 1st generation Mazda Protege, and while it had disc brakes on all 4 wheels, it's rear suspension design made the car prone to swapping ends if you had to make an emergency braking effort while in a turn. The problem was that if you hit the brakes in a turn, the rear suspension allowed the rear outside wheel to "tuck" under (ie positive camber where the top of the wheel is farther out than the bottom of the wheel) - which reduced that wheel's traction and allowed the back end to spin around with little warning. Today's drivers have gotten too used to 4 wheel anti-lock disc brakes with traction and stability control computers that they would have a difficult time driving some of these older cars. For that matter, they would have a hard time controlling many of the modern higher powered (250hp+) cars today if these driver aids weren't there. Think how challenging a Mustang GT or Hemi-powered Charger/Challenger would be to keep on the road without modern braking and traction/stability control computers.
@@jameshastey3058 *Still* had rear drum brakes? My 06 Corolla and my dad's '12 Civic have drum brakes. So did most of our cars, including '02 Protege. Every car has different handling characteristics, and drivers got to know them back then. Now the nanny computers do the job for you, which for most people is good, as most people view the car as an appliance. People STILL have problems controlling high powered cars, partially due to the reliance on assist systems - that's not real driving, that's commuting. Google "Mustang leaving a show" and you'll see what I mean: A lack of respect for the laws of physics and a dulled sense of "driving".
When I started working on cars the Citations were 5 or more years old and they did not get much respect. We had customers with Honda, Volvo, VW and other brands, who liked their cars and were willing to keep them in a good state of repair. The Citation might have had some issues but it was, in my opinion, generally serviceable. I think it had a problem with self esteem.
I bought a 1981 Citation new, had very few problems with it. It was a base car with no options not even a radio! It was a 4-cylinder, 4-speed trans. The car came with power brakes, no power steering, and wasn't too hard to steer. A woman I worked with bought a 1980 Citation that had every option, power windows, power seat, it even had little vent windows in the back behind the rear doors! My car got 40 mpg and was peppy. The only real issue with it is the trans failed. (was under warranty)
Hear me out on this. I worked my entire life in the restaurant business and the thought of taking my wife to dinner on mother's day or valentines day would scare the hell out of me. Terrible service long waits questionable standards. Why is that not the sane with cars? 800000 citations itself first year in their wildest dreams did they expect that. At least a restaurant can look at a calendar. It's a recipe for disaster pun intended. Hour first video on x car was enjoyed by me all those years ago glad you are still making the magic.
This was a top of the line late model version of the X-body, and even it had significant flaws mentioned by MW. Having driven one of these, I would never wish even my worst enemy to have to drive one of these. The fit/finish was generally bad, and things fell apart on them far too quickly due in equal parts to poor materials quality and poor workmanship during construction. The vertically mounted radio/AC controls were another pain in the rear and eyesore. Please review the Mazda Protege ( ua-cam.com/video/4oaX8QOd0FA/v-deo.html ). My family had one of these when I was growing up and overall have fond memories of it - minus it's tricky handling traits in emergency braking.
GM in the 80s: “Modest cars for modest expectations.” They didn’t like the under hood accessibility for the mechanic. I have a feeling packed engine bays were the trend all cars were heading towards then vs the citation being that bad individually. You need to remove the intake manifold on my 2006 Toyota to change the back 3 spark plugs. That’s certainly no better than the Citation. Probably worse.
I'm convinced that the story of The Big Three is a tragedy. Every time they get the styling right, handling right, ergonomics right, and price right, the cars plagued with problems. When they get the reliability problems right, the car is hideous. When they get All the above right, fuel prices destroy the vehicle's market.
I had a 1981 Citation X11 It was not fun to drive, but would have made it with much better with a different Transmission. It had a 4 speed with 4th being overdrive. Then the real problems began the rear main seal started leaking. Chevy would not fix it under Warranty. It was then I heard about 2.8 V6 having many problems. Time to get rid of it.
How many UAW members does it take to change a light bulb? It takes 6. You best not say nuthin bout it !!! GM employees used to harrass me about the Toyota i bought. They did NOT like that union joke.
GM, Ford & Chrysler don't like to spend money to fix problems and they like to resist recalls. They will come with a cheap software fix instead of developing a more expensive fix. Unlike the Japanese who care about building good quality and reliable cars and their reputation, the Big 3 American Automakers were more focused on reducing costs and increasing profits
I don't know man. The hatchback versions I've always found quite ugly. The two door notchbacks, particularly the Buick and Olds looked OK. Although the domestic competition wasn't much better I'd have easily gone with the Reliant or Fairmount instead.
Ironically much of this cumulated in to what became the Chevy Uplander, a spazed over Uplander that shockingly wasn't much better. The same basic bored out 2.8, Same basic transmission with some upgrades and an extra gear. Yet if you drive that it felt in many ways still built on stilts. Yet I loved the look of the Citation, but no doubt it had a long list of seemingly simple problems. I was shocked to see not much had actually changed.
@johnnymason2460 They both shared the same engine family. That's what relation. The 3500 v6 litterally is just a bored out and pumped up 2.8, the transmission isn't all that different as well. The Uplander had a 4 speed electronically controlled transmission. But much of that was just bolt ons over the years. But of course knowing both models so well, you probably knew that already. 😉
@@PearComputingDevices Having engines from the same engine family doesn't make the Citation and the Uplander related. It just means they had engines from the same engine family. A lot of GM vehicles used engines like that.
@johnnymason2460 Actually it does. It's basically the same 60 degree engine but highly upgraded. It's a direct ancestor to the newer 3500. It's also definitely not the only link from a platform perspective. You could probably drop a 3500 in to a Citation without much problems physically. There's not much of an advantage to doing that and it would be a nightmare to even try getting the computer to work with the engine for sure but physically they're very closely related.
@@PearComputingDevices That still only means the engines are related. The vehicles themselves are not related. Remember that same 3.5 liter ohv V6 was also used in the Impala at some point.
No disrespect meant, Jon, but only the Pontiac Aztec is uglier than the Chevy Citation and it's X-Body brethren. I will agree that the body stability through the slalom was fairly impressive.
This car is a classic example of GM's mismanagement. Sure, it's an impressive performer, but the parts (F41 suspension, rally gauges, et al) that make it that way are not standard, and the odds of you finding a car equipped like this in dealer stock is slightly lower than winning a Powerball jackpot. Leave it to GM to provide Motorweek with a ringer, leading buyers to end up with a pig in a poke from dealer stock. Talk about Bait and Switch!
GM assigned a young engineer named John Heinricy (Heinrocket) to develop a performance version of the Citation, thus the X-11. John worked on it as if it was his personal car as a hard-working South Dakota farm kid. He succeeded in developing an award winning SCCA race car. The 1981 X-11 won two national championships (the 1981 was the fastest with 0 to 60 times of around 8 seconds). John went on to become Director of the GM Performance Division. He also became an accomplished driver wining 12 SCCA Nation Championships in various GM cars. In 2014 John was induction into the Corvette Hall of Fame. I've owned a 1984 X-11 since 1988 and still love driving the car.
It was amazing how quickly these disappeared. By the late eighties, in Maryland at least, they were a rare sight.
You're absolutely right. For the millions sold, by the end of the decade you just never saw them.
The Japanese keep redesigning and improving their cars, while the American automakers just give up and cancel it when sells poorly instead of making it better
You can thank the unions for the lack of any leftover money to improve upon a design.
Here in SoCal, where I've attended hundreds of car shows through the years, I never, repeat never have seen one of these rare beauties on display...nor on the road for that matter. Beautiful design and concept; I now want one!
My friends’ father ran a driving school and bought an ‘82 Olds Omega. I learned to drive in that car and thought it was an easy to drive, comfortable, good handling car. It must have been reliable because I saw him use it every day and racked up about 200,000 miles on it.
Thanks for sharing!
I drove a 1981 and 1982 4-cylinder versions, fleet cars for company. They both were fine cars. Both were hatchback versions and very very roomy and versatile. As a company car I like them but they were smaller than what I used to have, and the 4-cylinder had almost no power. But in those years, almost no cars had power!
The citation is the base pillar of the other problems GM had in the 80s-90s. With that being said I do own a 1980 X11 2dr coupe (not hatch back). It's fun to drive and was also my daily while I was swapping head gaskets in my truck.
In 1980 my GF mom was given 4 dr. Auto 4cyl Citation and I drove that car a lot from Mass to Maine for many years and always impressed at the room and the power for a 4 cyl.
I wish I could find an X11 in mint condition. Good stuff as always my friend. You're welcome to do a reaction video of my X Car video. It is one of my most controversial efforts not only due to the subject mater, but also due to my unconventional and rather experimental... visual references and accoutrements. lol
I appreciate that, and that might be fun. Thanks for being here!
My older brother had a X11. It looked the part but was woefully doomed to constant failure. He liked but it was the reason he ended getting a 1976 Duster coupe with a slant 6. Had the Strasky and Hutch paint scheme. Shortly after that he went import and has never really came back.
Jon, the joke at our shop was the Citations all came with rear window defrosters to keep your hands warm while you were pushing them. In my opinion this was one of the biggest piles of junk my shop worked on. The big 3 just could not build reliable small cars in the eighties. The GM V6 vibrated so much we called it a paint shaker, and vibrations can cause a lot of problems. I have to agree with you about the Citation, but at the same time I have a Dodge Colt story no one would believe.
We had an 84 Colt. That was a tough little car.
I've always liked the design, and as a kid, I got to see the tail end of these in the 90s. As problematic as it is, I'd love to have one.
I made a presentation about GM and to simbolise the contrast between "the good days and the nasties" I put the OG 66 Toronado on top and a Citation on the bottom
I still look at that slide and think "I could have not have summarised it any better"
In GM's heyday whatever compromise was made for profotability was not "apparent for the avg customer", many cars like "descended from the hyper uranium of stylists' ideas". In the 1980s constraints were so strong GM became synonymous with lazy rebadging.
A guy who lives near me has an old Citation. It's been parked in his driveway for years, awaiting restoration, with no progress yet. The first time I saw it I was like "holy crap, a Citation. I haven't seen one of those in decades".
I won a red 1981 X11 from a raffle. What a fun and very versatile car at that time. I really miss it. Reliability was pretty good actually. Great handling and power from the 2.8 litre V6. Wish I had it today.
Interesting to think that with inflation, that's roughly $31k. A new Civic Si, which I guess would be "comparable" (i.e. sporty version of an economy car) is $29k.
I agree the Citation X11 is a sharp car!!
My Dad was a tool & die maker for GM for 35.2 years. He was always amused, and impressed with the influence of Ross Perot. His famous quote: "Trying to get GM to be economically efficient is like trying to teach an elephant to tap dance." GM bought him out of influence by paying him $75M, or was it $750M? The latter I think. Their egos could not stomach Perot's honesty.
It was $750 million, but that was to Perot and 3 others. I think Perot got $700mil of that?
I built the 1/24 Scale Monogram model kit of the Citation X11 in my teenage years... I would love to locate another one to build someday...
I bet if you could locate one of these today( in decent shape) it would be somewhat collectible..
Somewhat. I think you'd need to find that special person to want one. :)
I feel, and felt at the time, that GM missed an opportunity by not offering the sporty handling and trim on the 4 door also. That would have been more of a challenge to the competition. Sportiness with practicality.
A four-door sports car is an oxymoron...IMNSHO
The only reason I know the Citation is because when I was a kid, some friends of the family bought one in 1980 _or_ 1981. It was a Maroonish/Purplish colour. Another reason is because I come from a drag racing family and in 1980 Funny Car driver, Billy Meyer, fielded a Citation bodied car (one of the most impressive looking Funny Cars to this day {Yellow, Hawaiian Tropic Sponsor} look it up!) and finally a mint Citation appeared out of _nowhere_ on my Grandma's Street a few years ago (it stood out like a lighthouse in the blackest night) Bright red, with silver trim, rustless and sounded nice. The Citation is not on my radar of favorite cars or anything (although as time progresses and vehicles become more and more "amoeba" shaped and ugly and priced out of range of the regular folks) more cars of the 1980's _creep_ into my "wheel house". These are topic vehicles that I will always look at. Have you ever done the Chevy Celebrity? (my 1st car. a handmedown from parents. A 1984 Chevy Celebrity _Eurosport_ Wagon. (84's were the nicest looking year) Anyways, thanks for a swell show on something different! Addendum: In 1984, The Citation was "branded" the _Citatation II_ even though Chevy didn't do a thing to warrant the name change...LOL!
GM’s hubris was shining brightly when they engineered these X-bodies. My relatives owned an ‘84 Skylark Limited sedan…while plush and comfortable, the car was a mechanical disaster from day one (2 auto transmission failures, steering rack replacement and chronic overheating issues most noteworthy). With the arrival of more and more Japanese competition by the early 80s, GM (and the Big 3 as a whole) really doomed themselves with such half-baked products.
I had an Olds Omega. Best looking and riding pile of crap ever to roll out on four wheels. Trunk would fill with water, dump transmission fluid at random times, stalled when breaking hard or cornering (Simple fix, but took too long to figure it out), clear coat that might as well have been skipped for the length it lasted.
About the only good thing was the price, $600.
Ugh.... that sounds horrible. I've always hated the name Omega for that car. Like... "Last"? It just sounds ominous
The fact that the Iron Duke was the only 4 cylinder option throughout its run says volumes about GM innovation in the 1980s...
The X-11 would make for a fun project car. Upgrades would include:
-SC 3800 engine
-4 wheel anti-lock disk brakes
-improved suspension
-OBD2 diagnostics
-new dash with a horizontal radio and HVAC
-16" GM wheels...IROC?
Have I left anything out?
Doesn't sound like it would be a Citation anymore! LOL
@@AllCarswithJon
The end result would be the Citation III 😎
@@AllCarswithJonSounds like it would be a better Citation to me.
I remember when these cars were new. I thought they really looked great, but I guess the quality was bad. I also remember riding in a 1980s Honda Accord, and it really amazed me how it rode. I can see why the Japanese dominated car sales because the engineering and build quality were great.
They are very attractive in x11 or 2 door sedan versions
In 1983 we had a term for this car & its like. Starts with s & ends with t....
I am not a fan of the X-body cars(including the Citation). They just weren't made right. The X-11 was a bad attempt at a performance version. By the way, I believe the Dodge Aspen and Plymouth Volare were recalled more than the X-body cars.
Aspen/Volare held the record. The X cars beat it mostly because of higher initial sales.
I've read before the X-body cars were the most recalled, but I've never actually found an article or data that summarizes that. I'd love to do an episode about the most recalled cars, but what little info I find is not exactly reliable.
I had an '82. I thought it was a great driving car for the time. Mine was even modified by Bill Mitchel of Special Vehicle Development in Cheshire CT. It was lowered, aluminum engine cradle bushings, Koni gas shocks, poly urethane engine dog bone bar, no cat, etc. It became really formidable. Unfortunately, by about 65Kmi, it was done. Everything imaginable that could've gone bad went bad. Leaks, milkshakes, bad wheel hub bearings... The transaxle needed rebuilding too...Oh yeah...Even the rod bearings went bad. There was a secret campaign in which GM rebuilt the engine due to the milkshakes. And a recall to replace the 2 pc rope rear main seal with an angular seal. Which still leaked. Great concept and general design. Horribly bad execution, imo.
I remember the X cars well. The X11 looks great. It is sad. They really could have had it all. We had a Celebrity Eurosprt wagon with the 2800, it was a nice motor.
Braking problems have been fixed.
*Ends stop 45° off center*
The 80's had different standards. The brakes were never fixed. Just made not as bad. I may have the wrong platform, but I believe GM got in a bit of trouble for tweaking the EPA milage tests over them.
It does go to show how 40 years of progress has changed our expectations of a car's braking ability. The X-bodies still had drum type brakes in the rear and discs up front. That setup commonly resulted in the front wheels coming to a stop before the back wheels would resulting in the back swinging out due to rear end momentum. Even in the early 90's this type of swing out wasn't eliminated on economy cars. When I was in high school in the early 90's my mom had a 1st generation Mazda Protege, and while it had disc brakes on all 4 wheels, it's rear suspension design made the car prone to swapping ends if you had to make an emergency braking effort while in a turn. The problem was that if you hit the brakes in a turn, the rear suspension allowed the rear outside wheel to "tuck" under (ie positive camber where the top of the wheel is farther out than the bottom of the wheel) - which reduced that wheel's traction and allowed the back end to spin around with little warning. Today's drivers have gotten too used to 4 wheel anti-lock disc brakes with traction and stability control computers that they would have a difficult time driving some of these older cars. For that matter, they would have a hard time controlling many of the modern higher powered (250hp+) cars today if these driver aids weren't there. Think how challenging a Mustang GT or Hemi-powered Charger/Challenger would be to keep on the road without modern braking and traction/stability control computers.
Our Hyundai Pony didn't have brake problems :P The Citation seemed to have brakes by Lada.
@@jameshastey3058 *Still* had rear drum brakes? My 06 Corolla and my dad's '12 Civic have drum brakes. So did most of our cars, including '02 Protege. Every car has different handling characteristics, and drivers got to know them back then. Now the nanny computers do the job for you, which for most people is good, as most people view the car as an appliance.
People STILL have problems controlling high powered cars, partially due to the reliance on assist systems - that's not real driving, that's commuting. Google "Mustang leaving a show" and you'll see what I mean: A lack of respect for the laws of physics and a dulled sense of "driving".
"sell it today - fix it tomorrow" .. this attitude has been a problem for DECADES ... and will CONTINUE to be a problem for HUNDREDS of years !!
When I started working on cars the Citations were 5 or more years old and they did not get much respect. We had customers with Honda, Volvo, VW and other brands, who liked their cars and were willing to keep them in a good state of repair. The Citation might have had some issues but it was, in my opinion, generally serviceable. I think it had a problem with self esteem.
I bought a 1981 Citation new, had very few problems with it. It was a base car with no options not even a radio! It was a 4-cylinder, 4-speed trans. The car came with power brakes, no power steering, and wasn't too hard to steer. A woman I worked with bought a 1980 Citation that had every option, power windows, power seat, it even had little vent windows in the back behind the rear doors! My car got 40 mpg and was peppy. The only real issue with it is the trans failed. (was under warranty)
Thanks for sharing a positive experience with it!
You'd buy one now.... for $10,000.
But would you buy one for an inflation-adjusted $31,400?
That would be a hard "no". LOL
My next door neighbor had a 1983 not the x11 and he liked it ok.
Hear me out on this. I worked my entire life in the restaurant business and the thought of taking my wife to dinner on mother's day or valentines day would scare the hell out of me. Terrible service long waits questionable standards. Why is that not the sane with cars? 800000 citations itself first year in their wildest dreams did they expect that. At least a restaurant can look at a calendar. It's a recipe for disaster pun intended. Hour first video on x car was enjoyed by me all those years ago glad you are still making the magic.
Thanks!
This was a top of the line late model version of the X-body, and even it had significant flaws mentioned by MW. Having driven one of these, I would never wish even my worst enemy to have to drive one of these. The fit/finish was generally bad, and things fell apart on them far too quickly due in equal parts to poor materials quality and poor workmanship during construction. The vertically mounted radio/AC controls were another pain in the rear and eyesore.
Please review the Mazda Protege ( ua-cam.com/video/4oaX8QOd0FA/v-deo.html ). My family had one of these when I was growing up and overall have fond memories of it - minus it's tricky handling traits in emergency braking.
They were crap. Honda and Toyota were the biggest beneficiaries.
GM in the 80s: “Modest cars for modest expectations.”
They didn’t like the under hood accessibility for the mechanic. I have a feeling packed engine bays were the trend all cars were heading towards then vs the citation being that bad individually.
You need to remove the intake manifold on my 2006 Toyota to change the back 3 spark plugs. That’s certainly no better than the Citation. Probably worse.
Your first two minutes could have described any domestic manufacturer at that time.
I'm convinced that the story of The Big Three is a tragedy. Every time they get the styling right, handling right, ergonomics right, and price right, the cars plagued with problems. When they get the reliability problems right, the car is hideous. When they get All the above right, fuel prices destroy the vehicle's market.
Ah, the Big 3 as a Greek Tragedy... I love it!
And I agree. They couldn't get it all right, at the same time
The Japanese have honor, thus they designed and build great cars 🚗
I had a 1981 Citation X11 It was not fun to drive, but would have made it with much better with a different Transmission. It had a 4 speed with 4th being overdrive. Then the real problems began the rear main seal started leaking. Chevy would not fix it under Warranty. It was then I heard about 2.8 V6 having many problems. Time to get rid of it.
Handling on par with a GTI ..? How drunk was the guy testing this car ..?
I'd like to drive one with a late 90s supercharged 3.8 v6 drivetrain....
How many UAW members does it take to change a light bulb? It takes 6.
You best not say nuthin bout it !!! GM employees used to harrass me about the Toyota i bought. They did NOT like that union joke.
Even the K cars and Fox body midsized Ford's were way better.
Room for 5 AND front wheel drive!!!!
One of GMs biggest POS they ever made.
GM, Ford & Chrysler don't like to spend money to fix problems and they like to resist recalls. They will come with a cheap software fix instead of developing a more expensive fix. Unlike the Japanese who care about building good quality and reliable cars and their reputation, the Big 3 American Automakers were more focused on reducing costs and increasing profits
I think that broadly that attitude has changed, especially at GM
I don't know man. The hatchback versions I've always found quite ugly. The two door notchbacks, particularly the Buick and Olds looked OK.
Although the domestic competition wasn't much better I'd have easily gone with the Reliant or Fairmount instead.
Ironically much of this cumulated in to what became the Chevy Uplander, a spazed over Uplander that shockingly wasn't much better. The same basic bored out 2.8, Same basic transmission with some upgrades and an extra gear. Yet if you drive that it felt in many ways still built on stilts. Yet I loved the look of the Citation, but no doubt it had a long list of seemingly simple problems. I was shocked to see not much had actually changed.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. The Chevrolet Uplander was a minivan from 2005-2009. It had no relation to the Citation whatsoever.
@johnnymason2460 They both shared the same engine family. That's what relation. The 3500 v6 litterally is just a bored out and pumped up 2.8, the transmission isn't all that different as well. The Uplander had a 4 speed electronically controlled transmission. But much of that was just bolt ons over the years. But of course knowing both models so well, you probably knew that already. 😉
@@PearComputingDevices Having engines from the same engine family doesn't make the Citation and the Uplander related. It just means they had engines from the same engine family. A lot of GM vehicles used engines like that.
@johnnymason2460 Actually it does. It's basically the same 60 degree engine but highly upgraded. It's a direct ancestor to the newer 3500. It's also definitely not the only link from a platform perspective. You could probably drop a 3500 in to a Citation without much problems physically. There's not much of an advantage to doing that and it would be a nightmare to even try getting the computer to work with the engine for sure but physically they're very closely related.
@@PearComputingDevices That still only means the engines are related. The vehicles themselves are not related. Remember that same 3.5 liter ohv V6 was also used in the Impala at some point.
I’ll take a Honda both cars were $$
It always reminds me of Nova.🤷🏻♀️
No disrespect meant, Jon, but only the Pontiac Aztec is uglier than the Chevy Citation and it's X-Body brethren.
I will agree that the body stability through the slalom was fairly impressive.
Did the X bodies become the A bodies? I think there was a connection between the X bodies and the J bodies...
The FWD A-body cars were stretched versions of the X-body cars. I believe the J-body cars were a different set of cars.
I think a Chrysler K car was the best. The X body cars weren’t great by all means.
This car is a classic example of GM's mismanagement. Sure, it's an impressive performer, but the parts (F41 suspension, rally gauges, et al) that make it that way are not standard, and the odds of you finding a car equipped like this in dealer stock is slightly lower than winning a Powerball jackpot. Leave it to GM to provide Motorweek with a ringer, leading buyers to end up with a pig in a poke from dealer stock. Talk about Bait and Switch!
One of the worst cars ever made. My brother had one in the late 80's and he spent a lot of money just to get it to barely run.
Well, yet another 1980's murrican car gone bad🤷🏻♂️
GM assigned a young engineer named John Heinricy (Heinrocket) to develop a performance version of the Citation, thus the X-11. John worked on it as if it was his personal car as a hard-working South Dakota farm kid. He succeeded in developing an award winning SCCA race car. The 1981 X-11 won two national championships (the 1981 was the fastest with 0 to 60 times of around 8 seconds). John went on to become Director of the GM Performance Division. He also became an accomplished driver wining 12 SCCA Nation Championships in various GM cars. In 2014 John was induction into the Corvette Hall of Fame. I've owned a 1984 X-11 since 1988 and still love driving the car.
Cool! Thanks for sharing!