Must Have Rocket Appartamento Upgrades!
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2021
- E61 Pressure Gauge: geni.us/I2GGnQ
E61 Temperature Gauge: geni.us/P8hO9uJ
Flow Control Video: • E61 Flow Control Kits ...
Try our coffee! geni.us/4AAmhpj
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The Rocket Appartamento is a great espresso machine. Possibly, still the best looking heat exchanger E61 machine out there. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't have some flaws. Mainly, the lack of a PID, and the high pressure it's running right out of the box. Today, we'll be looking at an E61 pressure gauge and an E61 digital temperature gauge from Coffee Sensor that will allow you to easily overcome those two issues.
#coffee #espresso #rocketappartamento
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E61 Pressure Gauge: geni.us/I2GGnQ
E61 Temperature Gauge: geni.us/P8hO9uJ
Flow Control Video: ua-cam.com/video/ip90Ysl6J3s/v-deo.html
Try our coffee! geni.us/4AAmhpj
(As an Amazon associate, I earn from qualifying purchases)
This was a helpful video. I have a new-to-me old expobar that was running at 209* this morning and I now know to purge it longer than expected, then trade it in for a BDB.
Amazingly simple and easy to great results. Superbly done, super great tips, thank you
Dang this is awesome info... I've owned my Appartamento since about 2017 and it has been flawless since then and I've really enjoyed the coffee that comes out of it, however now seeing this I'm really interested in fine tuning it with these upgrades. I don't really dabble outside of a few different types of roasts so I think it will be interesting to see the difference. I think Temperature will play a massive difference in flavor. I do usually purge the Group head if the machine has been on for a long time but like you said sometimes I only turn it on and am brewing within 20 min or might not purge enough. Also, you are saying that the Bar is set to almost 12psi from factory... this could explain some over or fast brew times as that water is really pushing espresso through much faster than I want it to.
Your naked basket brew looks way slower than mine when coming out and I'm using a pretty decent grinder "silencio" at a pretty fine grind.
Amazing commentating. Very clear and concise speaker
I love this channel and LifestyleLab actually will help you out with questions!!
Definitely supporting this channel!!
Thanks for tuning in!
Having a permanent group head pressure gauge for me is essential. It’s a clear and concise indicator if there’s ever a problem with the water pump. Every machine should come with one ☝🏽
Ah can’t wait to see the flow rate video :D what a tease!
Timing is everything with it, I seem to have had a a routine that gave a consistent shot. Italian beans and having the grind set helps a lot
Loving the new studio look!
Awesome Video Quality and edit. nice job
Friendly reminder though, group temp brew temp. Do portafilter temp readings along with group thermometer read out, so you could compensate in your mind for every future brews.
Absolutely!
The manufacture of the sensor, and my personal tests, found that the brew temp is about 2 degrees cooler than the measurement shown at the temp sensor
Great video thanks for sharing. I’ve ordered both gages for my new Rocket Appartamento.
One small gripe…are there any better different thermometer gages, (other than this kind of cheap looking plastic digital gage)? Perhaps a mechanical gage, or even a digital gage in a more handsome enclosure? Just a shame to have my lovely very Italian Rocket espresso machine with a cheap looking 1970’s plastic digital-watch style gage square in the middle on the front.
Related question… When the plastic temp gage battery eventually fails, do you need to remove the whole gage from the group head to change the battery?
What a tease there at the end brother
I love this! I have bought the machine and the two gauges and it’s coming tomorrow. I assume I can teenpartwture surf until the gauge reads ny desired brew temp , then immediately pull the shot. Is that what you do?
This is so cool! Is there any way to have both the pressure gauge and the temperature gauge at the same time?
Can you adapt a smart profiler to this espresso machine? If you add the flow control does it affect your pressure as you increase and decrease the flow? Or does the flow rate not affect the pressure?
If you eventually buy a smart profiler is it interchangeable between this espresso machine and your Flair 58?
Thank you so much. I love my appartamento but no matter what bean I tried it all tasted burnt. This is as good as installation of a PID. I have gone through so many videos and reviews my head spun. I'm hoping this will keep me from putting it up for sale.
It’s so frustrating that some of these thousand-dollar machines do not run at nine bars. I don’t think it should be up to the consumer to tweak things; it should come out of the box running at nine bars, in my opinion.
yea it's honestly nonsensical
Actually, 9 bars is for the commercial style (rotary?) pumps. This uses a vibratory pump which requires higher pressure. 12 bars is what Rocket engineers found to be a good pressure for proper flow rate.
Depends where you’re measuring the pressure. At the group head, where the interaction with the puck is, the pressure should be 9 bar
I had to adjust mine so it was 9 bar on the group head using a pressure gauge
Almost 2 grand and you need upgrades, no thanks, pass
Hello when are you going to make a flow control video ? Can’t wait to watch .
Great video. Any idea when the flow profile device video will drop? Cheers.
1 1/2 turns was perfect for 9 bars. thank you
I'd love to see Lelit mara x review. Cheap e64 machine with PID
Do you have any links to the specific parts. I looked on a coffee parts (in Australia) website and there's a alot to choose from.
Both these issues are pushing me to the MaraX. Having a pressure gauge, an option to prioritise brew temp over steam and a basic PID, all for £400 less , makes it a bit of a no brained. I prefer the look of the rocket though.
Usually in the morning I turn it on, set a 25 minute timer to heat up, go eat, then make 2 double shots with 4 seconds flush.
The temp probe was a game changer on this machine for me, especially coming from more of a beginner perspective.
I couldn't get away from constantly overly bitter shots no matter what I did. Once I had the temp probe installed, like you, I couldn't believe how much water had to be initially flushed after the heat up process to get to an ideal brew temp. No wonder all my shots were bitter.
I've had the temp probe in place for about a year now and have just this week found out that my Appartamento could also be running at a higher than ideal pressure, so I have a guage on the way.
It really is astonishing that these costly machines should have these quirks, which are so vitally important, yet virtually no information or guidance supplied from the manufacturer. They should be set up out the box at 9 bar at the group with some simple guidance to say that after a 45 min heat up 150-200ml flush will be required. That alone would have saved me months and months of pouring shots down the sink.
With all that said, once you know, this is a very good machine capable of pulling excellent espresso which I can do consistently now and look forward to further improvements by lowering the pressure.
Some may say this is part of the learning process of the e61 group on an HX machine and they may be right, to a point. There is a learning process, of course, but running at 13 bar out the box when 9 is the industry standard, and requiring a 40 second flush off the bat without so much of a hint, well, they could do better!
Is there any way, besides that 40sec flush, to lower the temp to the ideal temperature? This is what a PID does, right? Just seems very wasteful to have to dump all that water. And is that flush time only after the initial warm up (or a significant period of the machine sitting idle)? Thank you!
You could switch the machine back off and let it cool down. Either method will need to be done after any period of sitting idle, EVEN on PID models. This is a general drawback of heat exchanger machines based on the fundamental design.
They heat brew water by running a tube through the steam boiler. If water stands for too long in that tube, it will overheat.
@@LifestyleLab_ That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation of how an HX machine works, and how that relates to this scenario. I'm going to be investing in the sensors you mentioned to get more hands on here!
Count me in on that problem!
@@amiller72 Try collecting it in a cup. I did for awhile then just poured it back in the tank.
Hello
how can we change headlight bulb for rocket appartamento?
thank you
I bought the flow control on the Rocket Cellini but for some reason the pressure gauge keeps vibrating and can’t seem to fix it 😢
i bought one before i really knew what I was doing or needed. so wish I had one with a PID to regulate water temp for different roasted bean profiles. i installed the temp gauge . so worth it . i found the same with purging. often a whole cup. didn't know about the bar adjustment. i think this is needed ASAP/
have been thinking about selling it a descent but might hold off for a little while.
I’m showing 0 bar at the head on my new Rocket espresso machine with an unloaded basket. Loaded 11 bar. Isn’t it better to test with a loaded basket?
The best mod is a 2nd boiler 😎
Is it possible to get a differenr $2,000 espresso machine that already has these upgrades?
Thanks for the great video. My steam wand is detached from the my Rocket Appartmento. Is there an easy way to put it back on? and which tools do I need? Thanks
I been told you should never remove it, an error I did too thinking I had to pull it off to clean it. Now it keeps leaking a few drips everytime the machine heats. Not a big deal, just a bit annoying.
Hi. Where is the flow control knob video ? Can’t find it 😩
If you purchase your machine from a reputable retailer they'll calibrate the machine for you. My retailed did this for me and when I put in the pressure gauge - for fun - it was adjusted perfectly for 9 bars at the group. Just check with the people you purchase from as you purchase it.
Not sure it necessarily has to due with whether they're reputable or not... some retailers have a policy to adjust down to 9 bar when possible, some don't
It looks great, but I think the Synchronika and the R58 look great too!
This is for we chumps who have a weakness for hot Italians.
@@taroman7100 I have a Synchronika and I can’t keep my eyes off of the Puristika lol
@@enyceofnyc But unfortunately the Synchronika is much bigger. I hope they soon will upgrade more of their heat exchanger models with PID and also make a more decorative model like the Appartamento. That would be a top seller.
Thank you for the great suggestions! I see that you collect the flushed water in a pitcher. Is it ok to then put it back to the tank, once cooled? Or should it be thrown away? Thanks!
Definitely thrown away, you don’t want to be putting dirty water into your tank / boiler 👍
Did he ever release the flow control mod video don't see it on his channel
Where does this 9 bar come from? It was a very surprising figure and info for me. I have an older version of this machine and now this video has just nailed into my head that I need to adjust but I'd like to know what the outcome will be and how better the coffee will be
9 bar is the "traditional" pressure espresso is brewed at when using a 58mm portafilter. Machines started using higher pressures to accommodate for different portafilter sizes, and for pressurized filter baskets. But on a machine like this, it should really be at 9 bar
I would highly recommend giving it a try. Worst case, you just put it back!
Another youtube channel has tested and measured the Temperature Gauge you have used. You must taken into account that the temperature of the water that is coming out of the group head is circa 2 grade celsius lower as measured at the Temperature Gauge. That is because of the position where the Temperature Gauge is installed.
Yes!
This information is also explained clearly in the manual that came with the gauge :)
Can you please share a link for the bottomless portafilter and basket you are using for the appartamento? Thanks.
That's actually the portafilter from the Flair 58! Aha
I recommend checking out Pesado on the high end, or Crema Coffee Products on the cheaper side.
Baskets, I'm a fan of IMS Nanotech
I bought the equipment you suggested for my appartamento.
My brewing pressure was 10 bar with a naked filter, so I kept it that way .
However the thermometer shows 75-80 degrees when idle with 1 Bar pressure at the boiler after 1.5 hours heating up. When i brew it goes as high as 81.
Any idea what this could be?
Honestly could just be that the thermometer isn't inserted all the way so it's reading low.
Another great and informative video. Perhaps you could do a video on the dual pressure gauge that replaces the bottom right hand gauge. It combines both the brew pressure and the bar boiler pressure. It’s the same size as the Bezzera gauge # 7432524
Really interesting video. I have a GCP and instead of "upgrading" to one of the Prosumer beauties, where you still need even more mods to get the machine you really want, I am tempted to try my hand at a Robot or perhaps Flair 58. Aren't there machines with built in temp control (PID) at the same price point as the Rocket?
Flair 58 video coming soon ;)
But yes, there absolutely are machines in the Appartamento's price range with a better feature set
Yes Breville Dual Boiler, Rancilio Silvia Pro, and Lelit Mara X.
the brewhead thermometer - do you have to add 2° celsius to the reading? i have the same model and always wondered if you have to do that
Yes, that's what the thermometer manufacturer (Coffee Sensor) suggests you do. Add 2deg to the reading.
I don't even own any espresso machines but everytime i see your vids i get excited and tempted to get into the espresso + latte art game. Pleasantly surprised to see how cheap that Coffee Pressure sensor is. I was thinking of getting the Sage / Breville Barista Express but seeing how important 9 bar of pressure is and all that stuff, does the Barista Express even does 9 bar of pressure or does it unfortunately go higher than that ? I'm looking for something for me to play around and make espresso with but also something simple enough that my dad can use too hence why i'm so tempted by the Barista Express these days.
The Barista Express does run higher than 9 bar out of the box. They've done this because of the 54mm portafilter, and to accommodate for people who want to use pressurized portafilters.
Regardless of this, it is still one of my most recommended machines at its price point. Its a good way to see if you enjoy the hobby, without spending a boat load of money on a machine AND capable espresso grinder
@@LifestyleLab_ Awesome, thank you so much for taking time with my question :D keep up the great videos as i really find them informative and so professionally well made 😄
Great video. Are those 2 upgrades possible to try on The Barista Pro?
No, these are only for E61 group machines. Besides, the Barista Pro already has a PID temperature controller, and the pressure is not adjustable (without voiding the warranty)
@@LifestyleLab_ thx. And how we find out real pressure The Barista Pro is using during extraction?
Using the temperature gauge, has anyone else experienced the temperature reading going up by about 3deg C as soon as you flip the lever to start the extraction? I'll get the temp gauge to right where I want it - let's say 88 C - then when I start the extraction, the temp reading shoots up to 91 or even 92 C. That's a big difference. Which reading should I be aiming for - the idle temperature or the brewing temperature?
You need to consider both. When the pump is not running , the probe is measuring the temperature of the group head. When the pump is running , it’s measuring the temp of the water. The two (group head and water) will interact with each other, so a quick and easy way to estimate the actual temp hitting the puck is “around” an average of the two. In your case that would mean around 90C.
Do you think that dual boiler pid e61 group head machines can also possibly have the overheated brewhead water problem that you described?
Some will have a temperature measurement right at the group. But MOST will suffer from this exact problem because the PID is only regulating the temperature back at the boiler. And any time a tube of brew water is sitting long enough inside a boiler of steam, it will eventually overheat
@@LifestyleLab_ Not exactly. Dual boiler E61s generally don't use a heat exchanger setup. That is they keep the boilers separate. On ECM, Profitec, and Rocket the brew water is constantly circling via thermosiphon, between brew boiler and group. The water is either being heated in the boiler or keeping the group warm.
Is this necessary to do with your apartmento if you’re having no issues with your espresso? Lowkey worried I’ll break it if I go around messing with it like that
I mean, nothing is really "necessary"
If you're 100% happy with your espresso, why change it? :)
Awesome video! What bottomless portafilter, basket and tamp do you recommend for apartmento?
Pesado make beautiful portafilters
I use IMS baskets and love them
Tamper: geni.us/iLWk4Q
Thanks so much for the response, I really like this channel!
I noticed a lot of provision baskets were 58.5 and 58.65. So I wanted to get a tamp that would fit those baskets without being too loose or too tight.
Do you think a 58.5 tamp like Normcore is too tight for a 58.5 basket or too loose for a 58.65 basket?
Sorry I know I am getting in deep with all this research lol
@andrewr3403 any “precision” tamper will work seamlessly with brand name precision baskets. Don’t worry there. The tolerance is built in
Someone is missing an opportunity to create a combination pressure/temperature gauge for the E61 ! It should exist and would be amazing.
That would be awesome!
Have been waiting years for this as well. It’s possible to make a splitter to allow the temp probe to reach the water with another port for pressure but it requires machining and knowledge I do not possess!
@@cmscss I think you could find a Tee and screw it onto the E61 tap hole. One side of the Tee for the temperature, the other side for pressure.
@@riffmeisterkl I answered several times but my comment keeps being auto-deleted. Not sure why, was just discussing what others had told me about what's required for an adapter. Will see if this comment gets posted and try again because it's a much-needed product for HX machines - brew pressure and temp at the same time.
@@riffmeisterkl Comment keeps being deleted - obviously there's some coffee terminology the UA-cam bots don't like!
When you're messing with the pressure to get it just right, do you reinstall everything between blind pulls or are there components that you can leave uninstalled while fine tuning?
You'll have to put the water tank holder and water tank back in each time. The rest of the lids etc can be left off
@@LifestyleLab_ Awesome, appreciate the response. I'm taking delivery of my Appartamento in a few hours, but probably won't be able to get my hands on a pressure gauge for a few weeks. How was the machine before you lowered the pressure?
Still a very enjoyable machine :)
Definitely wait for the gauge because some retailers already lower the pressure for you
Did you make more than a 360 turn from the dot you made to reduce the pressure to 9 bars??
Yes, it takes quite a few turns from my memory
Hey there! I am currently getting 11 bar when brewing actual espresso and 13 bar when brewing a blind basket. I was informed that 10 bar is where this machine should be as it has a vibration pump. Would 9 bar be too light testing with a blind basket?
Comes down to personal preference 🤷♂️
But yes, if you're looking 9 bar on a puck, you'll want a higher pressure with a blind basket
@@LifestyleLab_ thanks so much for the reply! I just made the adjustment and waiting for my machine to heat up. What bar pressure do you get when brewing your espresso? Fingers crossed for less bitter taste and less channeling!
Just got a rocket appartamento, do i have to buy a E61 pressure gauge, or can I make one and half turn without it?
Depends if you want to be spot on :)
You could just lower the pressure until you’re happy with it. But if you’re a beginner, you might not have a good feel as to where that should be… up to you!
Can you do a must have video for the Gaggia classic pro please!
Something I can definitely look into!
Do you have a video where you could add both the pressure and temp gauge with a tee fitting?
Worth a shot! But no, I don’t have such a video
@@LifestyleLab_ ua-cam.com/video/JlgXGrb4lVE/v-deo.htmlsi=vUR5GeYOWN8Wm--Y
does there a machine exist that hast this gauges installed and does not need so much heat up time?
Heat up times are pretty similar across machines, but there are lots with PID and pressure gauges built in
What is the ideal temperature at the cup ?
The same of brew temp?
No such thing as “ideal” temp. Just like there’s no ideal grind setting or brew ratio. Espresso temp is generally in the range of 90-95 Celsius, where you fall in that range depends on your coffee and taste preferences.
Temp in the cup will depend on brew temp, and how warmed up your cup is before brewing. Comfortable drinking temp is generally around 60 degrees C
What about that flow control device? i’ve just got an appartamento and would like to know your feedback on that!
Get it if you have the budget!
Video is a bit delayed, but it is worth it
In his review, James Hoffman used a Scace device and found consistent temperatures at the portafilter in the 92-94C range.
Unless the machine is left sitting idle, then it has a tendency to overheat, as with any heat exchanger. I've measured it as high as 107C
It has nothing to do with being cheap, that’s just the nature of how a heat exchanger system works… it water is left in a pipe going through a steam boiler, eventually it overheats
Can you tell a difference? Was it worth the mods? My Appartamento takes 25 seconds to flush before it stop sizzling!
The drop down to 9 bar is a noticeable difference, yes absolutely! Far easier to run a nice shot with no channeling.
Temperature will depend on how accurate you happened to be before doing the mod.
adressing the pressure issue - i asked my dealer and they said that rotatory pumps should be at 9 bars (overpressure valve), but vibration pump should be set at least at 10-11. Could you please explain that to me, whether it is true or not? Thank you
Depends on whether he's referring to pump pressure or group pressure.
Pump pressure for vibration pumps will be higher than the resulting group pressure.
What pressure you want to run at your group head is somewhat up to personal preference. Obviously 9 bar is a very widely accepted standard, but playing with higher or lower could yield better results for you and your coffee of choice
@@LifestyleLab_ thanks for the answer. If im right, one option would be upgrading appartamento with a flow control kit right? would you still adjust the pump pressure of a machine with flow control or would that be redundant?
Putting in a flow controller will not impact the pump pressure. Flow and pressure are independent
Hi which way did you turn down the pressure screw? Clockwise or reverse
Counter-clockwise when standing BEHIND the machine will lower the pressure.
@@LifestyleLab_ When you stand in front of the machine, it will still be counter-clockwise, won't it?
If you are in front of the machine it would appear that you are turning it clockwise
Are you still going to make the video on the flow control?
Just published!
ua-cam.com/video/ip90Ysl6J3s/v-deo.html
if you need to purge that much water then you better go with a DB. I even feel that I need to refill my profitec 600 so often so I'd imagine what would be like with the HX.
This is only in cases of extreme overheating, ie the machine is left at full temp for 30+ minutes. However, I do agree, HX machines do waste a lot of water to flushing
@@LifestyleLab_ Is that answer only revelent to HX WITHOUT a PID or even with one? I'd like to know since I bought my mom a Rocket Mozzafiato Chronometo Type V 2 years ago.
Was thinking of getting her the thermometer plugin though it's kind of ugly and cheap looking.
Are E61 with PID more temp stable than this? Or does it just control the boiler temp and group head still needs big flushes to get rid of the overheated water?
The second one. PID controls boiler temp, but brew water CAN still overheat. PID on a HX allows for different temps, but doesn’t have a huge impact on stability
@@LifestyleLab_ in your opinion what’s the most temp stable home machine? Single boiler with PID?
Breville Dual boiler is VERY temp stable. Otherwise, yes a single boiler or dual boiler with PID
With the temperature gauge, how do you adjust temperature for different roast beans?
You cannot actively change temperature, it is just a gauge. However, you can use it to inform your temperature surfing routine to get different brew temperatures
@@LifestyleLab_ I believe so. I was just trying to check out if you have any genius idea :)
I’ve now researched high and low to decide between HX and DB machines. Aside from PID on an HX, I just can’t understand why all these attempts are being made to obtain accurate brew head temp, when you can get a DB machine and get as close as possible to what the PID is set for a the group head. If the decision esteem HX and DB comes down to what kinds of coffees one makes- e.g., primarily milk based or not, it just seems that a DB will produce more consistent shots on avg, no matter how good one’s technique is at an HX.
Gosh, what am I missing?? I looked at thr Bezzera BZ13 that electronically heats the group head, in an attempt to increase boiler/group head consistency. Seems nice, but still, why not just get a quick heating DB and be done with it?
Heat exchangers are a more affordable way to allow for simultaneous steaming and brewing. If budget is no option, I think most would agree a true dual boiler is superior
@@LifestyleLab_ got it. Thank you!!!
I lowered both the exhaust pressure (9 bar) and the boiler pressure a while back. I'd like to know how much you usually leave the boiler pressure at?
I like to have the pump pressure measuring 9 bar at the group head. Boiler pressure I have never tweaked or played with, I’m happy with the steaming performance.
@@LifestyleLab_ OK, but the boiler pressure gauge at your house shows 1, or 1.2, or 1.2 (admittedly it fluctuates a bit). Thank you !
Normally right at 1, can creep up to 1.1 or 1.2 if left idle for long periods of time and slightly overheats
@@LifestyleLab_ thank you. But if I heard correctly, you're doing a 40-second flush? Since I'm using store-bought water with a low mineral content, that's a cost over a year... Is that right, 40 seconds?
Flush time completely depends on the group temperature. If you leave the machine sitting warmed up for an hour, yes, you'll need a very long flush. If you turn it on, warm it up, and immediately start pulling shots, the flush will be much much shorter. This is why a temp probe is critical if you care about exact temp
It was set at 12 bar with blind filter, but on FLOW?
Some machines drop the pressure up to 4 bar from blind to flow
Flow will completely depend on puck resistance. At a typical 2ml/s flow it was still hitting 11bar pre-adjustment
@@LifestyleLab_ thanks for the fast answer
So if 11 was at flow, maybe it's high
I don't have a permanent brew pressure gauge on my Epoca st1 , but with portafilter gauge, at 10bar closed system pressure the coffee was too flat, no taste, and bad mouthfeel
I set it to 12 bar(as came from factory) and the coffee was totally transformed
Unfortunately I don't know what is the pressure at flow, another guy on internet said that with this setting was 9 at flow
I know only one thing, that now the coffee tastes right, and I left it there
All that matters is what tastes good 👍
@@LifestyleLab_ I agree, that only matters 👍
And I found a temp&pressure gauge that can solve the problem
Try using a fan to cool the group head pre shot. You’ll want to read roughly 4c below desired temp
Interesting
Why has no one developed a pressure and temperature gauge for screwing into the E61 group head? Add BLE for Apps and you've got a real winner. I keep my temp gauge permanently in my HX E61 machine because I believe monitoring temp is more important than pressure. Yes I have that flow control fitted too.
That is the winning combo in my opinion as well. Pressure gauge is useful for setting up the initial pump pressure, then temp is more valuable.
Smart Espresso Profiler has E61 BLE pressure monitoring, maybe one day they'll integrate a temp probe
@@LifestyleLab_ Yeah I've been keeping an eye on Smart Espresso Profiler but $450 just for a BLE pressure gauge is too much. Might as well sell my HX and upgrade to a dual boiler with PID and not worry about temperature any more. It's really only useful on the E61 HX machines like the Apartmento but needs to be at a price point that doesn't make it the price difference between a HX and a dual boiler.
To be perfectly honest I find these a flaw with E61 with is, in my mind, not suitable for home environment. Yes, I know some crusaders will tell me the error of my ways, but having to leave a machine for 30-40min to heat up is a waste of time and energy (both yours and electric). I would much prefer someone come up with actively heated grouphead and making it almost free-for-all like the E61 is. Sage (Breville) Dual Boiler for instance takes the cake imho.
Great video, but now I can see why the Breville dual boiler is so good, and way way cheaper. Another thing, it has those 2 and much much more to offer.
There's a reason it's much cheaper. The internals and much of it is plastic. Don't expect it to last
@@Cenot4ph Thanks. I saw a Breville sitting on a counter in Tom Hanks home wondering why he doesnt have a four station piped in with his bank account.
damn, all that money for a machine that isn't calibrated out of the box, takes 30 mins to warm up and then retains overheated water in group head.
Hello! Just have a question, how legit is this coffee sensor company? I’m a little concern because I just order a pressure gauge from them
They're very legit!
I've spoken to the owner and he's a great guy
@@LifestyleLab_ that’s great to know! Thank you so much for responding.
I’m actually waiting for the pressure gauge to arrive and they contacted me yesterday so that awesome news!
The link for pressure gauge is not from Canada???
Coffee Sensor is American, yes
@@LifestyleLab_ but prices it showing in Euros
Any link for Canada as my parents are in Canada right now
They will bring it to India as i am planning to buy apartamento
You can order from that website to Canada
@@LifestyleLab_ sure i will thanks a ton..if i have any question will distrub you again
@@LifestyleLab_ btw apartamento TCA is out do you recommend?
3:13 Why don't you just drop a damp cloth on it? Purging the head just means more hot water will be flushed through so it won't exactly cool it to the desired temperature quickly - chances are the temperature of the water in the boiler is barely 10 degrees lower.
Hate to point out the obvious if you already made sure of this. but you want 9 bar against a tamped coffee puck. Some UA-camrs (cough Hoon cough) just stick in a blank portafilter and measure the pressure against no resistance, which isn't the point lol.
Yes! That's why you'll notice with the blank portafilter it was actually reading higher than 9 bar.
Regardless, it does come down to personal preference. I know some people how run their machines at 8 bar with a blind basket 😮
Does this mean i have to look somewhere else if brewing 95 degrees is important to me..? Ughhh
Not necessarily, just mean you need a way to measure :)
E61 groups overheat slightly by nature, even the ones with PID
I’ve heard that vibratory pump machines should run at higher pressure with 12 bar being the standard.
Depends where you’re measuring the pressure. At the group head, where the interaction with the puck is, the pressure should be 9 bar
The reviews of this Appartamento tell me to buy something else with PID.
A heat echanger will always require flushing, even with a PID, just keep that in mind! However I do agree that more feature rich machines can be had for the same money :)
Dang it it takes that long too get the temp down to 200F, wouldnt it just be better to just heat up for 15-20 minutes before use instead of 25-30?
It would!
The challenge is knowing when its at the right temperature and not overshooting... overall it's been a very eye opening experience using a scale
@@LifestyleLab_ You should make another video testing exactly how many minutes it takes the machine to heat up to exactly 200F at the group head haha
I was actually thinking of doing something like that, haha
Just don't want it to be misleading if people have different E61 machines, or if the heating speed is different in Europe etc...
@@LifestyleLab_ I just received my appartamento today and saw that the manual actually says to allow it to heat up for 15-18 minutes! So we might be on to something haha
I've been used to turning it on when I wake up, but not making coffee for an hour or so. Also after that first round of breakfast drinks, leaving it on all morning for my late morning drink. In both cases, that amount of idle time overheats so much, I'm dumping SO much water to cool that I'm barely getting 3 drinks out of the full tank of water. Such a waste! So, yeah....gotta find a way to only heat it up for ~20mins before I want a drink. Adds some complexity to the workflow, but the results really are better (with proper temp and lowered to 9 bars).
As beautiful as it is, it is simply not good enough. For example the temperature keeps falling past 200 F/93 C. If it had PID and build-in pressure gauge it would be THE machine on the market.
You could use both gauges if you used a short stainless steel pipe nipple to a stainless steel t fitting this would branch off that single hole into two and allow for both gauges.
Still waiting on that flow control video
Wait no longer!
ua-cam.com/video/ip90Ysl6J3s/v-deo.html
Another flaw: no water level display or anything…nothing more annoying than starting the extraction and after a couple of seconds the machine stops because the tank is empty!
The WORST!
I now am trained to check the water each time I turn the machine on
7 Months later and I'm still waiting for that flow rate video :(
Might want to check our page a little more closely 😉
@@LifestyleLab_ Omg haha! I didn't see that notification for that video. Sorry haha!
Appartamento looks good but is a terrible value. Within $150, 4-5 manufacturers give you 2x the machine. CREM ONE HX might be 3x the machine for the same price.
Wow, Rocket is supposed to know what they are doing... Why the F would they put the default pressure as high as 12 Bar for no damn reason, on such a good machine which obviously ain't gonna be ever using cheap pressurised baskets like entry level appliance.
I could understand for the Gaggia Classic since it comes with both type of baskets... but Rocket?! Glad I didn't have to change it on my R58. At such price point it is unacceptable.
hello~ :) i am korea coffeemachine engineer!
I'm so happy I found the ECM Classika PID, it's my one titty sweetheart!
why would someone buy a nd machine and spend another $200 and time. why not just go straight to the DB.
$$$
before this video was planning to get Rocket Appartamento , now it is better to invest more on lelit bianca IMO
That's a pretty huge jump in price. Take a look at this:
ua-cam.com/video/fHJ3UTPdep0/v-deo.html