Ssj3 gotenks being the only one would've been a perfect tori moment and a great call back to the lessons learned in the cell saga and the kids didn't learn cause of them literally not being born yet.
and it would go with the whole "next generation" thing goku had since he mastered ssj1 (not sure about 2), while gotenks would one-up him by mastering ssj3
Narratively i agree with Gotenks exclusively having SSJ3. However Goku going SSJ3 the first time and in Janemba movie was extremely hype. Sometimes you just don't know what could have been.
Haven't watched Dragonball Z in years but the explanation I recall hearing from the show was that Goku had a degree of mastery of the SSJ3 form but this mastery was obtained while he was dead and competing in other world battles but in the battles on Earth the form drained his time there and when he was brought back to life he realized just how draining the form was on his living body. Given this late discovery it makes sense imo that Goku would try to hold onto the form he utilized in other world in the hopes of one day surpassing that limit. However the fact that even Goku cant master the form in the living world kinda adds some prestige to the form and makes me think that one day if we ever saw the form mastered by Goku or otherwise that it would stack up against even the Super Saiyan God forms.
ssj3 is loved cuz its cool removed in a vacuum, in reality, tis a character assasination in the part of goku. But i dont really expect dragon ball fans to actually care about the story
Goku cared too much about Vegeta and his pride to go ssj3 on him instead of having a tough fight. I’m sure he knew they could defeat Buu and wanted that challenge.
No he didn’t he never wanted Buu to be released in the first place Holding back would only hurt Vegeta’s pride which Goku has never held back in a fight
I'm glad there are *some* people who actually think about dragon ball takes before saying shit, its refreshing to see people ACTUALLY READ THE FLIPPIN MANGA
What makes it worse that he hasn't mastered the SS3 form by the ToP is that by the time of the ToP in the manga he DID master/perfect the SSB form which also had a significant stamina/power problem.
I think i saw in a fan animation they made having a tail make SSJ3 actually usable to its maximum potential. I feel like they should have done something with that to make the form seem better
Yo I'm fr surprised, Carthu didn't mention every issue. Another MASSIVE issue is that Gotenks never, EVER uses SSJ2 because of the existence of 3. He's so NOT a warrior for someone with Saiyan blood that it's seething. EDIT: Move on, I've already seen Gotenks' SSJ2 hairstyle when entering 3. It's in the show, it just sucks. I also changed learned to use in that second sentence, just shit wording on my part.
@ADINO_STUDIO Hold on, just WHAT are you talking about? That's definitely not what was said... He said she might be able to make it to 3. Now, to be clear, I feel like it is obvious that 2 must be known to some extent to reach 3. I'm mainly having the issue with the fact that it's never shown or used by them, let alone individually. SSJ3's existence is exactly why SSJ2 Gotenks never is seen.
Gotenks has SS2. He just never had a reason to use it since he wanted to show of SS3 since that form got him out of the Room of Spirit and Time and matched Super Boo.
@@MereMere Nah actually, I'm taking back this whole comment. He actually shows off SSJ2 while turning into 3. Either way, you once again said something that someone else said and I then replied to.
Yeah which is why its even stupider he never got ssj3 back to the same level or close to the control he had when hes dead dead ssj3 goku had next to no down sided
@@FLYYADIGG24And EVEN Stupider That He Didnt Even Treat SS3 Like It Was SS And Master It Because It Basically Was SS Just.. More Energy And Stamina Draining ( Ignoring The Power Boost And The Appearance Change) Like Dam Was The Energy Drain THAT Bad Goku?!
Yeah your argument falls flat on its face when you realize that Goku also learned two ki sensitive techniques in both the Kaioken and the Spirit Bomb, while still dead. The Kaioken also not only drains him, but actively hurts him upon use. Plus if he ever uses beyond his natural limit that his body can handle, it will literally kill him. As his own energy would multiply far too much and cause him to implode. Yet Goku not only knew his limitations before he was revived, but alive as well. Unlike SSJ3, he would later reuse and master the form in greater levels, and finesse. Even somehow he has infinite ki while dead he should still know the amount used for a technique or form. He did not lose the ability to sense or manage Ki upon death. So there is no excuse why Goku inuniverse would not see the flaws of SSJ3. Especially for not freaking seven years.
@@TSO_SageThat's the point of the form though. If he mastered it then SSJ3 would be the new SSJ2 and then he would have to go further again to gain more power in exchange for stamina. You can't really master it bcuz the whole point is pushing urself to your limits
7:48 In my opinion Goku is the only person who has ssj3 is because it shows Goku's way of things. Remember goku is the type of guy to break his limits it shows Goku going further beyond. This is why Vegeta never got ssj3 he could never train enough to get this form. But my issue with ssj3 is how he didn't master it that's really stupid to me. Goku is the type of guy to learn about the form first, so he'd know about the stamina lost and start training to master it immediately and even if he couldn't master the form. Goku would master the ki drain/stamina drain. Goku did this with ssj when he realized the problems with ssj grades 2 and 3 the problems Vegeta and Trunk's failed to realize. And the T.O.P ssj3 scene really was just stupid. After all these years goku still hasn't mastered ssj3. At this point I just think the writers are doing a nostalgia bait by keeping ssj3 the same. But he's still my glorious king 🔥
Best way to use the form ironically enough is when you’re not even alive before you master it he11 even the saiyan cacs technically have a mastered version
You're cooking on most of that, but I have to argue that the part of "Vegeta could never train to this point" is only applicable in the buu saga. I imagine that during the however long jump between buu saga to battle of gods, Vegeta probably had the power to unlock it, but saw its ineffectiveness and tucked it away. Especially considering NOW, he should be more than capable of taking that form, it's just a point of "why would he?"
It is kinda crazy and in a way hilarious that Toriyama introduced new concepts such as SSJ3, Fusions, and Gohan getting another power boost for the Buu arc just for the main villain to be defeated by a concept introduced back in the Saiyan Saga with the Spirit Bomb
I feel like ssj3 makes sense. This is the guy that uses shit like kaio ken that is meant for short bursts and wrecks his body if used for too long/too high a level
What Goku should've really done is focus on "mastering" SSJ2 similar to grade 4. If Vegeta can get angry enough at SSJ2 to surpass Goku's ki at SSJ3, it tells me that SSJ2 could've definitely get mastered. Trunks didn't get beat up too badly in the Zamasu arc when he boxed SSJ3 Goku. Yes, he was stronger, but Trunks has nobody to train him and Black is too OP
I agree on the points of ssj3 being redundant, tho I do think ssj3 being used by goku wasn’t exactly regression to the full extent. It makes goku a troll and a liar and regresses a bit, yeah. But goku didn’t really know how extensive the drawbacks of ssj3 were until he was in a living body. Nor did he expect to get as tired from it as he did. He just knew it made him so much more faster and stronger but was hard to maintain. Which depending on how ya think of it, makes it a better form than grades 2 and 3.Plus it’s also not said how long goku even had access to ssj3 to even have mastered it. Could’ve been 7 years, could’ve been 7 months. It’s just said during those 7 years he learned ssj3. If anything, I think ssj3 should’ve been used as an absolute last ditch effort. It makes goku so much more powerful than ssj2 yet he can’t maintain it for long so he should use it to try to end battles as quickly as possible that he wouldn’t be able to with ssj2.
Yeah I always thought that SSJ3 could have had been handled more like the Z movies or more like Kaioken, were he's in SSJ2 for most of the fight and is a bit weaker than the enemy and then goes SSJ3 for quick burst during attacks or defending since it's such a huge jump in power, similar to the SSG-SSB switch in DBS but with SSJ2 and SSJ3. All of a sudden it has so much more use it isn't even funny, or again use it more like the movies where he uses it for longer and tries risking it all, it would add a lot more tension the the fights
Honestly most of everything is just facts. Personally tho I've always liked that it wasn't mastered, less because of that fitting goku(it does not fit at all, goku is always shown a prodigy himself, constantly understanding how he should use different forms and the value each holds), but i've always treated it as a form indicating a regression in Goku's mindset. It's tied to him because without him it wouldn't exist (whether you agree it should have been a gotenks exclusive or not). Him being clouded in the fact he NEEDS someone to succeed him leads him to create a new form that isn't 100% natural and should not realistically exist. Thus it being created imperfect from the beginning leads to it's inability to be mastered. Whereas ssj2 feels like a natural extension to ssj, and the concepts talked about in cell. Ssj3 feels radically different, in the way the eyebrows disappears and the hair grows. To me that's like what ssj would be if it slowly started turning you into an oozaru (which is essentially ssj4). So it kind of being the odd duckling heightens why i like it. It being discarded also adds to that feeling it gives me. Now that a new avenue has been opened up there's no use for a form like that, it should stay in the past. However it really is overrated, between appearing in the messiest DBZ arc, and essentially being an form you could remove with super minor tweaks. To me the only real argument you have for it's existence is goku vs kid buu, since goku being the only real one to hang comes off that form, but even than it's not like you couldn't do something like that without it. Nor does that really give you any added value besides vegeta admitting his admiration for goku.
I always found it weird that goku put soo much hope onto goten and trunks without having spent much time with them. A lot of ppl like to link that as the same situation as gohan but its not he trained with gohan in the time chamber and knew gohan's power and was confident gohan could beat cell thats why they left the chamber early
@@Bobby-lo3kj Goku can see the potential but never beyond that. He knew for a fact Gohan can beat Cell…If he was a fighter which Goku didn’t think about. He knew Gotenks could beat buu but didn’t think about how immature as fighters they are as well as Fat buu becoming Super Buu.
'SSJ3 is regression for Goku because Grade 4' Except Grade 4 didn't beat Cell, stamina is useless if you dont have the raw stats to keep up. Grade 4 was created to maintain agility in battle, stamina preservation was a side effect, one Goku did acknowledge but it wasn't the main reason. So Grade 4 didn't beat Cell, a powered up version of Super Saiyan that maintains and boosts agility as well as strength did. That would be Goku's main takeaway. Under the pretense of the afterlife and its energy consumption mitigation, Goku creating SSJ3, a powered up form of Super Saiyan that retains and boosts agility as well as other stats seems reasonable. I have multiple other issues with Carthu's points, but I'll ask this, what proof do we have that Goku *hasn't* mastered SSJ3? Do we have any statements from Goku himself? 'Goku has a knack for stamina preservation' I mean he blatantly says he doesn't do that in the Moro arc. Grade 4 was really the only time.
3:19 I think this point specifically was where Carthu really cooked. I always assumed the energy emitted transferred into Buu's awakening cause that's literally all anyone uses as a counter to why Goku shouldn't have gone SSJ3 against Vegeta. The knowledge that only Babadi's minions can increase the resurrection is much worse in Goku's case cause he literally could've stopped all of this by just knocking Vegeta out. I feel like there's him trolling because he thinks Buu's a threat that can be neutralized easily when he is awake and then there's him actively helping the reawakening by not going all out. Honestly, I much prefer it being Gotenks exclusive because it leads to a couple less issues.
I think because ssj3 was one taped by beerus and it has a drain stamina but if your body is dead it has infinite energy even the transformation is iconic fusion reborn and wrath of the dragon with the transition
I would recommend that you react to Carthu’s video on Orange Piccolo called The Road to Orange Piccolo. He gives a good reason onto why Orange is a good form. And also this video is right, ssj3 is not very good in hindsight the more I think about it.
There was a comment by toriyama where he says that when designing 3 he thought it was 2. Without that oversight and a bit of foreshadowing it woulda been fine. Also you asked why he didn’t master it, in GT it’s implied that he did when he literally says if I had my adult body this would be much easier. He also says it’s easier in other world.
if i’m not mistaken SS3 is a “Other World” exclusive form. when Goku was dead he had unlimited ki, so stamina and ki drain wasn’t a problem over there. He didn’t account for it to drain him so quickly while on earth. Not sure if that’s true or holds much water but i believe i read it somewhere.
I doubt this is an "otherworld exclusive" thing. Besides the fact that its entirely unheard of despite how common transformations are in this universe, I feel like if Goku just had higher stamina then he would get this form regardless. We have no idea if ki can translate to a single aspect or it HAS to be everything at once, but hypothetically he could just start small, increase his stamina, and get the transformation then. After thats said and done, he can make it bigger and better
I remember when I saw ss3 vs Beerus. Goku entered the form so fast and easily when compared to in Buu Saga that I thought he did master it. Then we get to Goku vs Trunks and there's no mention of a stamina issue at all. It's like the writers forgot there was an issue with 3 and remembered it during the tournament of power. "Oh shit, Goku is supposed to have stamina problems, let's fix that now."
I like what Zeon and Aggro said about Super Saiyan 3. It's a power form used for ending a fight quickly, but that's not how Goku fights. Basically if you can't get the job done in 5 min as SSJ3, you aren't gonna get the job done at all as SSJ2
Goku black masterd Ss3 seen in Heros sprouting eyebrows. It can be used as a counter Atk like when Trunks uses his grade 3 form just for counters. Maybe it's due to the fact that he didn't have his tail present. Since it's technically an Oozaru variant.
Thinking about it, Super Saiyan 3 reminds me of what Super Saiyan Rage is in my opinion. Both are new forms that have massive potential under the right circumstances but we’re never realized to their fullest potential because of the writing. Don’t get me wrong, Goku going SSJ3 against Buu will always be an iconic moment in Z. But SSJ3 was quickly sidelined after God and Blue were introduced with it only being used in a few cases. (Goku’s level 3 in Fighterz, stopping Trunks’ sword to power gauge, the Dragon Fist in Warth of the Dragon.)
9:34 but that "fact" about SSJ2 is just wrong, shown in the cell fight and flat out stated in the Buu resurrection. SSJ2's flaw is DURABILITY. it may be harder to damage a SSJ2 user but when they take damage they take more damage.
He had super saiyan 3, but it was unstable transformation. That's what he was trying to explain to everyone he had the power. Yes, but it wasn't something he could easily tap into or control and he knew it would run out his time he had for his day on earth, everybody misses that detail though.
I really do believe Toriyama made SSJ3 just to have a new and stronger headliner transformation for the saga. Each saga in Z had a new and stronger headliner form, Saiyan saga had Kaioken Frieza saga had SSJ, Cell saga had SSJ2, Why not keep up the same trend? With the little to no foreshadowing SSJ3 had I truly believe Toriyama made SSJ3 right after the Majin Vegeta fight to have a form for the front page
if goku ever mastered super saiyan 3 and made its energy drain near negligible or completely nonexistent and amped it by mixing it with kaoken it would be a monster i mean now a days it would be seen as nothing because the god forms but it sounds like it could nearly compare to super saiyan 4
Honestly here’s my easy fix: Goku doesn’t use 3 at all in the boo saga going into the final fight. Then Vegeta tells him he has to be the one to fight because he saw that Goku was hiding some new power when they were fused. “It’s nowhere near ready… I can’t manage its power properly that’s why I didn’t use it before… yada yada yada” “We have no choice you have to use it now!” Goku then uses 3 to fight boo and loses because of the drawbacks he said before (same as original) and has to rely on the spirit bomb. I really think just saving it for the very end of the arc as an absolute last resort really solves a lot of the problems with it.
My problem with SSJ3 is just that it feels like a step backwards from the lessons learned when mastering Super Saiyan. Goku knew there was a form that surpassed Super Saiyan but decided not to use it cause of the handicaps, choosing to instead to master the normal Super Saiyan to the point it doesn’t drain any energy from him. Edit: I’ll also add I feel the only thing SSJ3 adds in the original story is the Vegeta number one scene. To me I don’t know how that scene would’ve worked without SSJ3 as it shows Vegeta that no matter how hard he pushes himself Goku will always find a way to go further which causes him to finally respect Goku. Without SSJ3 I don’t know how that scene would play out
Except Grade 4 didn't beat Cell. Stamina is useless if you don't have the power to keep up. Grade 4 was mainly about retaining agility. In the afterlife where energy drain is mitigated, SSJ3 is a reasonable continuation.
Issue with the theory is that you both worked so hard to prove yourselves right that you didn’t look hard enough for reasons why you might be wrong. Just from memory I’m sure Goku in the anime mentioned the stamina drain wasn’t an issue in other world why he didn’t think about the drawbacks of the form until he was back on earth, then by the time a new threat came along he was already far beyond 3 so yes, of course there’s no point “mastering” it..:Waste of time
Ngl SSJ3 will always be one of my favourite forms. it’s design is great, it has a downside which allows goku to learn and improve from it and it’s also badass as fuck
I might be overlooking something but Goku doesnt use ssj3 a lot in the buu saga and im pretty sure thats because its an inefficient transformation. he only uses it when ssj2 cant do the job or when they are literaly gonna DIE if not used. Plus if goku had a ssj3 transformation that didnt consume energy then he might have beat kid buu at the end of the arc and then i have to bring up sages arrgument he uses a lot...."what are you sacrificing to have these changes?"
Well I do think the only imperfected Kakarot transformation DOES have some potential tension that’s added to a scene if you just have one “aw no… the form in my temporary mortality is even getting strained… I’m not sure if even my biggest moves would work right now and if that doesn’t work, the earth is doomed… I Have To keep containing this power or the world could be doomed!” THAT could’ve put in stakes to him using more power and explained Why he didn’t try using the ultimate power against Vegeta when trying to focus on helping the kaîôshīn stop the whole Májīn issue… But man does it feel odd that he never tried developing a means of maintaining SSJ3 longer… or accessing it faster like they treat the God to Blue transformations during attacks idea… But they somewhat feel like the mortal body improvement is left out for focus on trying to do weird beginner angel imitation training, etc. in super… But Z ending with just base form super Saiyan then getting pushed by magically healed Super Saiyan for the push does feel like a comfortable ending to the final villain… But still no one develops Three in any way besides Vegeta unlocking ONLY the Eyebrow loss? What does that mean?! Is he using 3 but without pushing his mortal body to expend 800 times the lifeforce or whatever cause instead he’s just focused on Destruction instead of growing out his hair? It does still give me that vibe like the horrible haircut that he gets in GT which has to be a Bulma did it while he’s unconscious OR because when he uses SSJ3 his hair is too long & then the haircut could make a little sense but a Saiyan having hair cut is not good from the way I remember… But if the hair doesn’t grow then how does Kakarot get the hair growth form?! It’s all funky and mysterious and they probably know that giving concrete lore will upset however many fans or whatever… I dunno how we fix this besides maybe short scene when training with Whīs where he tells Kakarot that his final Saiyan transformation clearly hasn’t been worked on right or tells him how he doesn’t recommend simply using their god kí to undo the stamina drain and contain the power within their body because of whatever god stuff they can do which COULDVE created a time where some moment where they can’t use god or blue transformations Finally lets a New kind of Three become some amazing power for mortals or whatever… maybe that’s what make Jiren start producing aura and doing the magical eyeball pushing nonsense? Just an idea? Anyone think there’s better times or moments the form could’ve been used with more impact or celebration or whatever? Maybe in the future it’s an UI stacking form? But that doesn’t even feel right logically in my own head… : D It’ll always look cool but I guess for Toriyama it probably felt like a Joke form “what the hell do these battle manga fans want next ?! Am I gonna make Goku’s hair grow out even more like his kid?! I mean that makes sense with a half human and- actually it WOULD be Funny…” is that how it happened? Anyone think I might be on to something there? Best would’ve been Vegeta NOT Realising he’d become super Saiyan 3 when he blew himself up because his mortal body couldn’t even contain in and so him at king Yemma/Ènmà’s desk is the ultimate golden SSJ3 but he doesn’t even realise it which Would’ve been kinda hilarious… I’d love for Vegeta to simply Not Understand he already became SSJ3 with final explosion… I think he wears that transformation best cause it’s the only way he returns to More Normal Vegeta Hair…. Oh no… Did he let Bulma cut his hair JUST to force himself to push out his hair more whilst transforming? That COULD be the hilarious way he gained the transformation… but it’s too painful to Vegeta fans’ pride collectively innit?! : D Now I have said too much….
There's an ENTIRE fan manga dedicated to Vegito literally being called Ultra Vegito. Regardless of what you think about it, that should speak towards SSJ3 being less popular, as that shit is hella blown up now.
I think a cool story for a SSJ3 Vegeta would be if Vegeta still forces Goku into the fight and during this fight, Vegtas new Majin power unlocks SSJ3 catches Goku off guard, and loses to Vegeta legitimately Vegeta tries SSJ3 against Buu It still doesn’t work and he does final explosion as a last-ditch effort.
It's funny as fuck how in the future trunks arc in the manga, Trunks masters SSJ2 to the point it's about as strong as SSJ3 lol making SSJ3 look even more stupid
@@BlaxkSun I mean what is there to really explain it just doesn’t make much sense. As soon as he witnessed Vegeta turn SSJ2 he should have busted out SSJ3. I believe Toriyama just didn’t come up with it at the time or at least a finalized design. If he did it’s just terrible writing.
@@shangothunder1055 Goku for intent and purposes didn’t know or think Vegeta had SSJ2. He thought he was going to just roll Vegeta, literally in the actual exchange in the manga, which for some reason people don’t read for the actual context, Goku said I’m going to finish this quick went SSJ2 then Vegeta responded in kind transformed to SSJ2 himself and told him it won’t be that easy. SSJ3 would’ve drained him out completely in a fast amount of time which everyone seems to forget about
I agree w/ the standpoint that the form is underwhelming wholeheartedly… HOWEVER, it does make sense that Goku was the one who found it because of the fact that in the other world, Goku was fighting day in and day out with no stamina drain, no energy drain just straight hooping for the love of the game. SSJ3 is an otherworldly transformation that is understandably difficult to translate back into the living world. The next problem with the form is that it’s hard to even train. Either his sparring partner would get packed up too quickly for him to really get a chance to use the form, or they are of divine energy. There’s no real in between. Majin Buu and maybe Ultimate Gohan are the only two that could possibly hang with Goku, but Ultimate Gohan isn’t limited by stamina so he pretty much wins by default, and majin buu would literally only be there to be a punching bag until Goku gets tired.
12:00 im pretty sure universally people thought he didnt use ssj3 against vegito because he didnt wanna hurt his pride and was stalling me personally it makes sense but i don't like it goku shouldve turned ssj3 and told him he'll never reach the form because of his mind set and the way he trains and one tap him vegeta will realize tht he's been going about his training and everything else wrong and does a whole 180 and well see his character progression throughout the ar so when he says at the end when goku is fighting buu " u better then me kakarot" it would hold more weight
SSJ3 is only good for the principles used in it. Which sucks because GT is the only thing that builds on it. SSJ3 draws out the potential within the cells, which ssj4 later incorporates.
The SSJ3 problem is because its hard to animate.... thats why we had the god forms, way easier to animate cause all you had to do is change the hair colour and the aura...
I love the video and agree completely it's a waste of a form. I feel ss1 is the limit break and ss2 is from a place of angry or pain but ss3 has no purpose in the story. I always wonder why super kaioken wasn't used more than just for the filler underworld arc and honestly it would make more sense if goku wanted to kill buu it's a technique and it would make sense why he didn't fight for a while and would be consistent with his serious view on buu as a threat. That just my thoughts but alwaysfantastic video
Ssj3 if it was gotenks exclusive transformation would've made it slighty better and followed by goku who trains to make it better. Because that form has the same issues of grade 3 like whaaaat?
Super saiyan 3 is one of my favorites based on cool factor ngl, it it’s defense Goku can’t “master” Super Saiyan 3, because it’s not natural. Goku learned it when he was dead and he didn’t have a physical body. Goku only used super saiyan 3 as MAX power. Only time he’s used 3 is when he’s absolutely needed to… but then that just raises the question of why it was created in the first place so I guess he’s right wow. To make it better, having gotenks actually be effective with it but that means he’d have to be useful fr
Here is the funny thing. GT did Their transformations better I Always found it interesting that DBZ was about "MY ULTIMATE FORM" everyone said its my ultimate form this ultimate form that. And saiyans are like the only mutants trying to get better forms I always thought that it was the narrative to push to that peak where you are whole in body and spirit SSJ4 Did that fuck in GT Goku getting his tail and mastering his saiyan side gave him SSj3 without any stamina drain he was missing the control he got as a saiyan something he lost for so long due to the negativity it brought. They didnt do it perfectly but the motive and narrative was there SSJ4 was just an evolution and the perfect form rather than another super saiyan form. And here is something funny. In GT, Z, Super when a saiyan is transformed if they get beaten and knocked out they get knocked out of the form. SSJ4 is the only transformation where its impossible to get knocked out of the form. on top of that training in SSJ4 Actually increases your base at the same time where as the other forms just improve the form
Ssj3 is a BAD, but the only person(s) that make sense to have that form…..would be gotenks Hear me out. Goku wanted Goten and Trunks to be the next defenders of earth, right? Imagine instead of Goku, Gotenks is the one who unveils ssj3. That’s hypebeast for the simple fact that the tots unlocked a new ssj form, which furthers Goku’s “finding a successor” agenda. BUT due to their inexperience as fighters and just for being tots, they don’t master it. Ssj3 actually fits a character like Gotenks, NOT Son Goku
Uh Vegeta just got it, and GOT A MEANINGFUL WIN WITH THE FORM, meaning that it is not completely useless outside of Goku using it, As Vegeta got the first SSJ3 win in over 30 years defeating tamagami 2, and making the form look strong and powerful again.
I agree that ssj3 is not a good form overall, but the regression argument not so much. Wouldn't there be a point where the raw boost in power overshadows the drawback of energy use?
My issue with SSJ3 is that it dismisses the whole mastery element that was the build up to SSJ2. SSJ2 had a whole saga dedicated to Goku and Vegeta both trying to figure out how to master Super Saiyan and go beyond. SSJ3 just feels like a situational move like Kaioken. Good for a quick powerup but bad for a longer fight. It doesn't represent any kind of greater mastery or understanding of the Super Saiyan form. It's just a temporary raw power increase.
Ssj3 should be a better version of grade 2 and three with more speed and agility but the stamina drain isn’t that bad but it’s still there and also maybe a precursor to super Saiyan four
What I hate about the "oh goku the one who mastered super saiyan made an inefficient form" argument is that GOKU DID NOT KNOW SINCE HE HAD INFINITE STAMINA IN HEAVEN. OML
@@DgSezn No, the difference between goku being dead in the afterlife and Vegeta being dead was Vegeta was granted a pass, the same pass Goku got when he went to Earth for 1 day and we know that body has stamina while Goku being in the afterlife(Dead goku who cannot physically teleport to earth) has INFINITE STAMINA. Goku even stated that SS3 is a form only to be used in the afterlife because on earth (even with his dead body pass) He gets exhausted while in the afterlife he doesn't, he doesn't even feel the effects and says so himself when he regained his life.
@@Jeff-fo3ck Goku has been shown to to use too much energy in the afterlife that’s the whole reason he had to run on it instead of flying and why he used the nimbus instead of flying He never said ss3 never put strain on his body or that he didn’t know about the energy drain cause he said having a living body uses up even more energy
The after life still has the same rules on ki if you use too much you will still run out of it otherwise the Kaio-Ken would be able to stack Infinitely
What if now hear me out Vegeta unlocks super Saiyan 3 and his fight with buu. But he still has to resort to final atonement because of the energy drain
Honestly, I feel like Vegeta should’ve had SSJ3 and had developed it in secret, and Goku should’ve developed Super Kaioken, with Majin Vegeta SSJ2 being stronger than SSJ2 Goku, forcing him to power down and break out Super Kaioken, which pushes Majin Vegeta to reveal his trump card of SSJ3 when he realizes that Goku either A: Didn’t discover it himself Or much more likely B): Chose to go a different path as he felt it was ineffective in comparison to the potential of Super Kaioken
peak react as per usual 🤝🤝🤝
L
Carthuuuu I seeee youuuu 👀
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@@Zamasu-op7zz 🤖🤖🤖🤖
Ssj3 gotenks being the only one would've been a perfect tori moment and a great call back to the lessons learned in the cell saga and the kids didn't learn cause of them literally not being born yet.
Exactly
erm ackshually🤓🤓🤓 trunks was born but he was also only a year old
@@emperortoho nooo not the nerd emoji 😭
and it would go with the whole "next generation" thing goku had since he mastered ssj1 (not sure about 2), while gotenks would one-up him by mastering ssj3
Ssj3 Goku looks really good as a mc Donald's employee
Vegeta and SSJ3 Goku serving Big Macs as a side hustle.
@@Generalmituna8079 fr
Even got the mc hairline kinda
Just put the fries in the bag, bro
@@Generalmituna8079 ur mituna pfp made me wince, I did not expect a fellow homestuck in here.
Narratively i agree with Gotenks exclusively having SSJ3. However Goku going SSJ3 the first time and in Janemba movie was extremely hype. Sometimes you just don't know what could have been.
Haven't watched Dragonball Z in years but the explanation I recall hearing from the show was that Goku had a degree of mastery of the SSJ3 form but this mastery was obtained while he was dead and competing in other world battles but in the battles on Earth the form drained his time there and when he was brought back to life he realized just how draining the form was on his living body. Given this late discovery it makes sense imo that Goku would try to hold onto the form he utilized in other world in the hopes of one day surpassing that limit. However the fact that even Goku cant master the form in the living world kinda adds some prestige to the form and makes me think that one day if we ever saw the form mastered by Goku or otherwise that it would stack up against even the Super Saiyan God forms.
if your looking for that I suggest any of the db fan Mangas that what you're looking for.
Learning about how Majin Buu's work with inflicting pain, makes me wonder how much f*cking energy came from VIdel?
guys videl did something
Gohan’s energy put that thing at half, and Spovobich killed some people prior to Babidi popping him like a balloon
The energy isnt from Videl the energy is from people with the Majin mark inflicted damage
@@davimaybeYeah and spopovich destroyed her
Goku going ssj3 for the first time is the coolest transformation scene in db to me beside ui
ssj3 is loved cuz its cool removed in a vacuum, in reality, tis a character assasination in the part of goku. But i dont really expect dragon ball fans to actually care about the story
17:40 you fuckin killin me with the voice man, spot on
Goku cared too much about Vegeta and his pride to go ssj3 on him instead of having a tough fight. I’m sure he knew they could defeat Buu and wanted that challenge.
the pride thing is dub only. his only excuse in the manga is he was scared of the time limit
he never mentioned it in the actual story.
@@CarthusDojo Damn, not even the sub huh 😂
@theinktician hes always ready lmao
No he didn’t he never wanted Buu to be released in the first place
Holding back would only hurt Vegeta’s pride which Goku has never held back in a fight
I'm glad there are *some* people who actually think about dragon ball takes before saying shit, its refreshing to see people ACTUALLY READ THE FLIPPIN MANGA
What makes it worse that he hasn't mastered the SS3 form by the ToP is that by the time of the ToP in the manga he DID master/perfect the SSB form which also had a significant stamina/power problem.
I think i saw in a fan animation they made having a tail make SSJ3 actually usable to its maximum potential. I feel like they should have done something with that to make the form seem better
Yo I'm fr surprised, Carthu didn't mention every issue. Another MASSIVE issue is that Gotenks never, EVER uses SSJ2 because of the existence of 3. He's so NOT a warrior for someone with Saiyan blood that it's seething.
EDIT: Move on, I've already seen Gotenks' SSJ2 hairstyle when entering 3. It's in the show, it just sucks. I also changed learned to use in that second sentence, just shit wording on my part.
@ADINO_STUDIO Hold on, just WHAT are you talking about? That's definitely not what was said... He said she might be able to make it to 3.
Now, to be clear, I feel like it is obvious that 2 must be known to some extent to reach 3. I'm mainly having the issue with the fact that it's never shown or used by them, let alone individually. SSJ3's existence is exactly why SSJ2 Gotenks never is seen.
Gotenks has SS2. He just never had a reason to use it since he wanted to show of SS3 since that form got him out of the Room of Spirit and Time and matched Super Boo.
@@MereMere Nah actually, I'm taking back this whole comment. He actually shows off SSJ2 while turning into 3. Either way, you once again said something that someone else said and I then replied to.
Goku actually didn’t know the side effects of ss3 until he used it in a living body.
Yeah which is why its even stupider he never got ssj3 back to the same level or close to the control he had when hes dead dead ssj3 goku had next to no down sided
@@FLYYADIGG24And EVEN Stupider That He Didnt Even Treat SS3 Like It Was SS And Master It Because It Basically Was SS Just.. More Energy And Stamina Draining ( Ignoring The Power Boost And The Appearance Change) Like Dam Was The Energy Drain THAT Bad Goku?!
Yeah your argument falls flat on its face when you realize that Goku also learned two ki sensitive techniques in both the Kaioken and the Spirit Bomb, while still dead. The Kaioken also not only drains him, but actively hurts him upon use. Plus if he ever uses beyond his natural limit that his body can handle, it will literally kill him. As his own energy would multiply far too much and cause him to implode. Yet Goku not only knew his limitations before he was revived, but alive as well. Unlike SSJ3, he would later reuse and master the form in greater levels, and finesse. Even somehow he has infinite ki while dead he should still know the amount used for a technique or form. He did not lose the ability to sense or manage Ki upon death. So there is no excuse why Goku inuniverse would not see the flaws of SSJ3. Especially for not freaking seven years.
kinda like the KAIOKEN right ? 😂 my issue still remains bro he never masters the form
@@TSO_SageThat's the point of the form though. If he mastered it then SSJ3 would be the new SSJ2 and then he would have to go further again to gain more power in exchange for stamina. You can't really master it bcuz the whole point is pushing urself to your limits
7:48 In my opinion Goku is the only person who has ssj3 is because it shows Goku's way of things. Remember goku is the type of guy to break his limits it shows Goku going further beyond. This is why Vegeta never got ssj3 he could never train enough to get this form. But my issue with ssj3 is how he didn't master it that's really stupid to me. Goku is the type of guy to learn about the form first, so he'd know about the stamina lost and start training to master it immediately and even if he couldn't master the form. Goku would master the ki drain/stamina drain. Goku did this with ssj when he realized the problems with ssj grades 2 and 3 the problems Vegeta and Trunk's failed to realize. And the T.O.P ssj3 scene really was just stupid. After all these years goku still hasn't mastered ssj3. At this point I just think the writers are doing a nostalgia bait by keeping ssj3 the same. But he's still my glorious king 🔥
Sorry if this is long and all but I just wanted to get this out.
Yeah I get what you mean it was definitely underutilized by the writers.
Best way to use the form ironically enough is when you’re not even alive before you master it he11 even the saiyan cacs technically have a mastered version
You're cooking on most of that, but I have to argue that the part of "Vegeta could never train to this point" is only applicable in the buu saga. I imagine that during the however long jump between buu saga to battle of gods, Vegeta probably had the power to unlock it, but saw its ineffectiveness and tucked it away. Especially considering NOW, he should be more than capable of taking that form, it's just a point of "why would he?"
thumbnail is insane 💀
Ssj3 is just majestic. Not as iconic as the others. But that transformation and look is just epic
It is kinda crazy and in a way hilarious that Toriyama introduced new concepts such as SSJ3, Fusions, and Gohan getting another power boost for the Buu arc just for the main villain to be defeated by a concept introduced back in the Saiyan Saga with the Spirit Bomb
If SS3 got that MacDonalds sponsorship then he ain’t doing too bad for himself
I purposely didn't watch this video when it came out just so I could react to with Sage.
I feel like ssj3 makes sense. This is the guy that uses shit like kaio ken that is meant for short bursts and wrecks his body if used for too long/too high a level
What Goku should've really done is focus on "mastering" SSJ2 similar to grade 4. If Vegeta can get angry enough at SSJ2 to surpass Goku's ki at SSJ3, it tells me that SSJ2 could've definitely get mastered. Trunks didn't get beat up too badly in the Zamasu arc when he boxed SSJ3 Goku. Yes, he was stronger, but Trunks has nobody to train him and Black is too OP
I agree on the points of ssj3 being redundant, tho I do think ssj3 being used by goku wasn’t exactly regression to the full extent. It makes goku a troll and a liar and regresses a bit, yeah. But goku didn’t really know how extensive the drawbacks of ssj3 were until he was in a living body. Nor did he expect to get as tired from it as he did. He just knew it made him so much more faster and stronger but was hard to maintain. Which depending on how ya think of it, makes it a better form than grades 2 and 3.Plus it’s also not said how long goku even had access to ssj3 to even have mastered it. Could’ve been 7 years, could’ve been 7 months. It’s just said during those 7 years he learned ssj3. If anything, I think ssj3 should’ve been used as an absolute last ditch effort. It makes goku so much more powerful than ssj2 yet he can’t maintain it for long so he should use it to try to end battles as quickly as possible that he wouldn’t be able to with ssj2.
Yeah I always thought that SSJ3 could have had been handled more like the Z movies or more like Kaioken, were he's in SSJ2 for most of the fight and is a bit weaker than the enemy and then goes SSJ3 for quick burst during attacks or defending since it's such a huge jump in power, similar to the SSG-SSB switch in DBS but with SSJ2 and SSJ3. All of a sudden it has so much more use it isn't even funny, or again use it more like the movies where he uses it for longer and tries risking it all, it would add a lot more tension the the fights
Honestly most of everything is just facts. Personally tho I've always liked that it wasn't mastered, less because of that fitting goku(it does not fit at all, goku is always shown a prodigy himself, constantly understanding how he should use different forms and the value each holds), but i've always treated it as a form indicating a regression in Goku's mindset. It's tied to him because without him it wouldn't exist (whether you agree it should have been a gotenks exclusive or not). Him being clouded in the fact he NEEDS someone to succeed him leads him to create a new form that isn't 100% natural and should not realistically exist. Thus it being created imperfect from the beginning leads to it's inability to be mastered. Whereas ssj2 feels like a natural extension to ssj, and the concepts talked about in cell. Ssj3 feels radically different, in the way the eyebrows disappears and the hair grows. To me that's like what ssj would be if it slowly started turning you into an oozaru (which is essentially ssj4). So it kind of being the odd duckling heightens why i like it. It being discarded also adds to that feeling it gives me. Now that a new avenue has been opened up there's no use for a form like that, it should stay in the past. However it really is overrated, between appearing in the messiest DBZ arc, and essentially being an form you could remove with super minor tweaks. To me the only real argument you have for it's existence is goku vs kid buu, since goku being the only real one to hang comes off that form, but even than it's not like you couldn't do something like that without it. Nor does that really give you any added value besides vegeta admitting his admiration for goku.
It's a forced form in every way, goku himself forced the form out, which i feel like fits.
I always found it weird that goku put soo much hope onto goten and trunks without having spent much time with them. A lot of ppl like to link that as the same situation as gohan but its not he trained with gohan in the time chamber and knew gohan's power and was confident gohan could beat cell thats why they left the chamber early
Yeah I never understood that, he came back for literally one day and said hey 👋 goten we never talk but I trust the world to you
@@Bobby-lo3kj Goku can see the potential but never beyond that. He knew for a fact Gohan can beat Cell…If he was a fighter which Goku didn’t think about. He knew Gotenks could beat buu but didn’t think about how immature as fighters they are as well as Fat buu becoming Super Buu.
F to the people above me
My favorite streamer always come up with good content
Blud u aint even watch the vid💀💔
@@kaiOnTheWeb OK? AND
@@kaiOnTheWeb dude you know these videos are re-uploads from the stream, right
Tomorrow Lonks Takes will be defending it! So hyped
Our hero!
'SSJ3 is regression for Goku because Grade 4'
Except Grade 4 didn't beat Cell, stamina is useless if you dont have the raw stats to keep up. Grade 4 was created to maintain agility in battle, stamina preservation was a side effect, one Goku did acknowledge but it wasn't the main reason.
So Grade 4 didn't beat Cell, a powered up version of Super Saiyan that maintains and boosts agility as well as strength did. That would be Goku's main takeaway.
Under the pretense of the afterlife and its energy consumption mitigation, Goku creating SSJ3, a powered up form of Super Saiyan that retains and boosts agility as well as other stats seems reasonable.
I have multiple other issues with Carthu's points, but I'll ask this, what proof do we have that Goku *hasn't* mastered SSJ3? Do we have any statements from Goku himself?
'Goku has a knack for stamina preservation'
I mean he blatantly says he doesn't do that in the Moro arc. Grade 4 was really the only time.
3:19 I think this point specifically was where Carthu really cooked. I always assumed the energy emitted transferred into Buu's awakening cause that's literally all anyone uses as a counter to why Goku shouldn't have gone SSJ3 against Vegeta. The knowledge that only Babadi's minions can increase the resurrection is much worse in Goku's case cause he literally could've stopped all of this by just knocking Vegeta out. I feel like there's him trolling because he thinks Buu's a threat that can be neutralized easily when he is awake and then there's him actively helping the reawakening by not going all out. Honestly, I much prefer it being Gotenks exclusive because it leads to a couple less issues.
I think because ssj3 was one taped by beerus and it has a drain stamina but if your body is dead it has infinite energy even the transformation is iconic fusion reborn and wrath of the dragon with the transition
I would recommend that you react to Carthu’s video on Orange Piccolo called The Road to Orange Piccolo. He gives a good reason onto why Orange is a good form. And also this video is right, ssj3 is not very good in hindsight the more I think about it.
There was a comment by toriyama where he says that when designing 3 he thought it was 2. Without that oversight and a bit of foreshadowing it woulda been fine. Also you asked why he didn’t master it, in GT it’s implied that he did when he literally says if I had my adult body this would be much easier. He also says it’s easier in other world.
if i’m not mistaken SS3 is a “Other World” exclusive form. when Goku was dead he had unlimited ki, so stamina and ki drain wasn’t a problem over there. He didn’t account for it to drain him so quickly while on earth. Not sure if that’s true or holds much water but i believe i read it somewhere.
I doubt this is an "otherworld exclusive" thing. Besides the fact that its entirely unheard of despite how common transformations are in this universe, I feel like if Goku just had higher stamina then he would get this form regardless. We have no idea if ki can translate to a single aspect or it HAS to be everything at once, but hypothetically he could just start small, increase his stamina, and get the transformation then. After thats said and done, he can make it bigger and better
Ssj3 looks like ssj1 grade 2 but in ssj2
I always saw SS3 as an incomplete transformation. And I thought god ki would help Goku master the form. Boy, was I wrong.
What are your thoughts on beast gohan just being the ultimate form while in ssj2
Crazy cus ever since ssj3 I always wondered why it wasn't used but they used ssj2
4:55 he did that to not hurt vegeta's feelings knowing that fighting in equal forms would help vegeta heal his pride
I remember when I saw ss3 vs Beerus. Goku entered the form so fast and easily when compared to in Buu Saga that I thought he did master it. Then we get to Goku vs Trunks and there's no mention of a stamina issue at all. It's like the writers forgot there was an issue with 3 and remembered it during the tournament of power. "Oh shit, Goku is supposed to have stamina problems, let's fix that now."
If I remember correctly in dragon ball gt after goku gets his tailed pulled out, he actually fixes the whole power consumption issue of ssj3.
ssj 3 is such a letdown, goku never mastered it nor gets main Ws…😭😭
I like what Zeon and Aggro said about Super Saiyan 3. It's a power form used for ending a fight quickly, but that's not how Goku fights. Basically if you can't get the job done in 5 min as SSJ3, you aren't gonna get the job done at all as SSJ2
BSOLZ cameo got me dying😂😂
Goku black masterd Ss3 seen in Heros sprouting eyebrows. It can be used as a counter Atk like when Trunks uses his grade 3 form just for counters. Maybe it's due to the fact that he didn't have his tail present. Since it's technically an Oozaru variant.
Sage are you ok are you sick because you're not streaming can you do a league stream
Thinking about it, Super Saiyan 3 reminds me of what Super Saiyan Rage is in my opinion. Both are new forms that have massive potential under the right circumstances but we’re never realized to their fullest potential because of the writing. Don’t get me wrong, Goku going SSJ3 against Buu will always be an iconic moment in Z. But SSJ3 was quickly sidelined after God and Blue were introduced with it only being used in a few cases. (Goku’s level 3 in Fighterz, stopping Trunks’ sword to power gauge, the Dragon Fist in Warth of the Dragon.)
I think the super manga never talked about him not being able to have inefficiencies in stamina drain from SSJ3
9:34 but that "fact" about SSJ2 is just wrong, shown in the cell fight and flat out stated in the Buu resurrection. SSJ2's flaw is DURABILITY. it may be harder to damage a SSJ2 user but when they take damage they take more damage.
That thumbnail 😂😂😂😂
Ssj3 will always have a place in my heart love that form
Tbh they should have saved ss3 for gohan when he got his potential unlocked then connected to rage and hidden power like super sayian 2
The fact that Goku’s hairline changes to Vegeta’s in ssj3 in the manga is crazy to me😂😂
He had super saiyan 3, but it was unstable transformation. That's what he was trying to explain to everyone he had the power. Yes, but it wasn't something he could easily tap into or control and he knew it would run out his time he had for his day on earth, everybody misses that detail though.
I know this is off topic, but does anyone interpret Beast Gohan as a SSJ version of Potential Unleashed or is that just me?
I really do believe Toriyama made SSJ3 just to have a new and stronger headliner transformation for the saga. Each saga in Z had a new and stronger headliner form, Saiyan saga had Kaioken Frieza saga had SSJ, Cell saga had SSJ2, Why not keep up the same trend? With the little to no foreshadowing SSJ3 had I truly believe Toriyama made SSJ3 right after the Majin Vegeta fight to have a form for the front page
He Mastered it in GT
if goku ever mastered super saiyan 3 and made its energy drain near negligible or completely nonexistent and amped it by mixing it with kaoken it would be a monster i mean now a days it would be seen as nothing because the god forms but it sounds like it could nearly compare to super saiyan 4
Ohhhh, so thats why they beat the shi outta Videl
Honestly here’s my easy fix: Goku doesn’t use 3 at all in the boo saga going into the final fight. Then Vegeta tells him he has to be the one to fight because he saw that Goku was hiding some new power when they were fused. “It’s nowhere near ready… I can’t manage its power properly that’s why I didn’t use it before… yada yada yada”
“We have no choice you have to use it now!”
Goku then uses 3 to fight boo and loses because of the drawbacks he said before (same as original) and has to rely on the spirit bomb. I really think just saving it for the very end of the arc as an absolute last resort really solves a lot of the problems with it.
My problem with SSJ3 is just that it feels like a step backwards from the lessons learned when mastering Super Saiyan. Goku knew there was a form that surpassed Super Saiyan but decided not to use it cause of the handicaps, choosing to instead to master the normal Super Saiyan to the point it doesn’t drain any energy from him.
Edit: I’ll also add I feel the only thing SSJ3 adds in the original story is the Vegeta number one scene. To me I don’t know how that scene would’ve worked without SSJ3 as it shows Vegeta that no matter how hard he pushes himself Goku will always find a way to go further which causes him to finally respect Goku. Without SSJ3 I don’t know how that scene would play out
Except Grade 4 didn't beat Cell. Stamina is useless if you don't have the power to keep up. Grade 4 was mainly about retaining agility.
In the afterlife where energy drain is mitigated, SSJ3 is a reasonable continuation.
Issue with the theory is that you both worked so hard to prove yourselves right that you didn’t look hard enough for reasons why you might be wrong. Just from memory I’m sure Goku in the anime mentioned the stamina drain wasn’t an issue in other world why he didn’t think about the drawbacks of the form until he was back on earth, then by the time a new threat came along he was already far beyond 3 so yes, of course there’s no point “mastering” it..:Waste of time
Ngl SSJ3 will always be one of my favourite forms. it’s design is great, it has a downside which allows goku to learn and improve from it and it’s also badass as fuck
Took might have got ssj3 about one day to a week before he came back because he probably was not training as hard as you think in the otherworld
I might be overlooking something but Goku doesnt use ssj3 a lot in the buu saga and im pretty sure thats because its an inefficient transformation. he only uses it when ssj2 cant do the job or when they are literaly gonna DIE if not used. Plus if goku had a ssj3 transformation that didnt consume energy then he might have beat kid buu at the end of the arc and then i have to bring up sages arrgument he uses a lot...."what are you sacrificing to have these changes?"
Well I do think the only imperfected Kakarot transformation DOES have some potential tension that’s added to a scene if you just have one “aw no… the form in my temporary mortality is even getting strained… I’m not sure if even my biggest moves would work right now and if that doesn’t work, the earth is doomed… I Have To keep containing this power or the world could be doomed!”
THAT could’ve put in stakes to him using more power and explained Why he didn’t try using the ultimate power against Vegeta when trying to focus on helping the kaîôshīn stop the whole Májīn issue…
But man does it feel odd that he never tried developing a means of maintaining SSJ3 longer… or accessing it faster like they treat the God to Blue transformations during attacks idea…
But they somewhat feel like the mortal body improvement is left out for focus on trying to do weird beginner angel imitation training, etc. in super…
But Z ending with just base form super Saiyan then getting pushed by magically healed Super Saiyan for the push does feel like a comfortable ending to the final villain…
But still no one develops Three in any way besides Vegeta unlocking ONLY the Eyebrow loss? What does that mean?!
Is he using 3 but without pushing his mortal body to expend 800 times the lifeforce or whatever cause instead he’s just focused on Destruction instead of growing out his hair?
It does still give me that vibe like the horrible haircut that he gets in GT which has to be a Bulma did it while he’s unconscious OR because when he uses SSJ3 his hair is too long & then the haircut could make a little sense but a Saiyan having hair cut is not good from the way I remember…
But if the hair doesn’t grow then how does Kakarot get the hair growth form?!
It’s all funky and mysterious and they probably know that giving concrete lore will upset however many fans or whatever…
I dunno how we fix this besides maybe short scene when training with Whīs where he tells Kakarot that his final Saiyan transformation clearly hasn’t been worked on right or tells him how he doesn’t recommend simply using their god kí to undo the stamina drain and contain the power within their body because of whatever god stuff they can do which COULDVE created a time where some moment where they can’t use god or blue transformations Finally lets a New kind of Three become some amazing power for mortals or whatever… maybe that’s what make Jiren start producing aura and doing the magical eyeball pushing nonsense?
Just an idea?
Anyone think there’s better times or moments the form could’ve been used with more impact or celebration or whatever?
Maybe in the future it’s an UI stacking form? But that doesn’t even feel right logically in my own head… : D
It’ll always look cool but I guess for Toriyama it probably felt like a Joke form “what the hell do these battle manga fans want next ?! Am I gonna make Goku’s hair grow out even more like his kid?! I mean that makes sense with a half human and- actually it WOULD be Funny…” is that how it happened?
Anyone think I might be on to something there?
Best would’ve been Vegeta NOT Realising he’d become super Saiyan 3 when he blew himself up because his mortal body couldn’t even contain in and so him at king Yemma/Ènmà’s desk is the ultimate golden SSJ3 but he doesn’t even realise it which Would’ve been kinda hilarious…
I’d love for Vegeta to simply Not Understand he already became SSJ3 with final explosion…
I think he wears that transformation best cause it’s the only way he returns to More Normal Vegeta Hair….
Oh no… Did he let Bulma cut his hair JUST to force himself to push out his hair more whilst transforming? That COULD be the hilarious way he gained the transformation… but it’s too painful to Vegeta fans’ pride collectively innit?! : D
Now I have said too much….
Is this a reup load 😂 felt like I seen this already
He watched it on stream yeah
There's an ENTIRE fan manga dedicated to Vegito literally being called Ultra Vegito. Regardless of what you think about it, that should speak towards SSJ3 being less popular, as that shit is hella blown up now.
No eyebrows always kills me I hate the way it looks
I think a cool story for a SSJ3 Vegeta would be if Vegeta still forces Goku into the fight and during this fight, Vegtas new Majin power unlocks SSJ3 catches Goku off guard, and loses to Vegeta legitimately Vegeta tries SSJ3 against Buu It still doesn’t work and he does final explosion as a last-ditch effort.
It's funny as fuck how in the future trunks arc in the manga, Trunks masters SSJ2 to the point it's about as strong as SSJ3 lol making SSJ3 look even more stupid
He didn’t use SSJ3 vs Majin Vegeta cause he thought Vegeta couldn’t go SSJ2
That makes no sense.
@@shangothunder1055 explain?
@@shangothunder1055 I got time
@@BlaxkSun I mean what is there to really explain it just doesn’t make much sense. As soon as he witnessed Vegeta turn SSJ2 he should have busted out SSJ3. I believe Toriyama just didn’t come up with it at the time or at least a finalized design. If he did it’s just terrible writing.
@@shangothunder1055 Goku for intent and purposes didn’t know or think Vegeta had SSJ2. He thought he was going to just roll Vegeta, literally in the actual exchange in the manga, which for some reason people don’t read for the actual context, Goku said I’m going to finish this quick went SSJ2 then Vegeta responded in kind transformed to SSJ2 himself and told him it won’t be that easy. SSJ3 would’ve drained him out completely in a fast amount of time which everyone seems to forget about
It’s a missed opportunity in dragon ball super for goten and trunks to master the potiential of super saiyan 3 😔
I agree w/ the standpoint that the form is underwhelming wholeheartedly… HOWEVER, it does make sense that Goku was the one who found it because of the fact that in the other world, Goku was fighting day in and day out with no stamina drain, no energy drain just straight hooping for the love of the game. SSJ3 is an otherworldly transformation that is understandably difficult to translate back into the living world. The next problem with the form is that it’s hard to even train. Either his sparring partner would get packed up too quickly for him to really get a chance to use the form, or they are of divine energy. There’s no real in between. Majin Buu and maybe Ultimate Gohan are the only two that could possibly hang with Goku, but Ultimate Gohan isn’t limited by stamina so he pretty much wins by default, and majin buu would literally only be there to be a punching bag until Goku gets tired.
Vegeta having ssj3 wouldn’t have made sense.
12:00 im pretty sure universally people thought he didnt use ssj3 against vegito because he didnt wanna hurt his pride and was stalling me personally it makes sense but i don't like it goku shouldve turned ssj3 and told him he'll never reach the form because of his mind set and the way he trains and one tap him vegeta will realize tht he's been going about his training and everything else wrong and does a whole 180 and well see his character progression throughout the ar so when he says at the end when goku is fighting buu " u better then me kakarot" it would hold more weight
SSJ3 is only good for the principles used in it. Which sucks because GT is the only thing that builds on it. SSJ3 draws out the potential within the cells, which ssj4 later incorporates.
The SSJ3 problem is because its hard to animate.... thats why we had the god forms, way easier to animate cause all you had to do is change the hair colour and the aura...
I love the video and agree completely it's a waste of a form. I feel ss1 is the limit break and ss2 is from a place of angry or pain but ss3 has no purpose in the story. I always wonder why super kaioken wasn't used more than just for the filler underworld arc and honestly it would make more sense if goku wanted to kill buu it's a technique and it would make sense why he didn't fight for a while and would be consistent with his serious view on buu as a threat. That just my thoughts but alwaysfantastic video
Really in hindsight, ssj3 is suppress down to the fact that the animators hate drawing the hair
If they hate drawing the hair then Raditz wouldn’t be brought back
Ssj3 if it was gotenks exclusive transformation would've made it slighty better and followed by goku who trains to make it better. Because that form has the same issues of grade 3 like whaaaat?
BIG SAGE NEVA THE LIL ONE
Super saiyan 3 is one of my favorites based on cool factor ngl, it it’s defense Goku can’t “master” Super Saiyan 3, because it’s not natural. Goku learned it when he was dead and he didn’t have a physical body. Goku only used super saiyan 3 as MAX power. Only time he’s used 3 is when he’s absolutely needed to… but then that just raises the question of why it was created in the first place so I guess he’s right wow. To make it better, having gotenks actually be effective with it but that means he’d have to be useful fr
Here is the funny thing. GT did Their transformations better
I Always found it interesting that DBZ was about "MY ULTIMATE FORM" everyone said its my ultimate form this ultimate form that. And saiyans are like the only mutants trying to get better forms
I always thought that it was the narrative to push to that peak where you are whole in body and spirit
SSJ4 Did that fuck in GT Goku getting his tail and mastering his saiyan side gave him SSj3 without any stamina drain he was missing the control he got as a saiyan something he lost for so long due to the negativity it brought. They didnt do it perfectly but the motive and narrative was there
SSJ4 was just an evolution and the perfect form rather than another super saiyan form. And here is something funny. In GT, Z, Super when a saiyan is transformed if they get beaten and knocked out they get knocked out of the form. SSJ4 is the only transformation where its impossible to get knocked out of the form. on top of that training in SSJ4 Actually increases your base at the same time where as the other forms just improve the form
Ssj3 is a BAD, but the only person(s) that make sense to have that form…..would be gotenks
Hear me out. Goku wanted Goten and Trunks to be the next defenders of earth, right? Imagine instead of Goku, Gotenks is the one who unveils ssj3. That’s hypebeast for the simple fact that the tots unlocked a new ssj form, which furthers Goku’s “finding a successor” agenda. BUT due to their inexperience as fighters and just for being tots, they don’t master it.
Ssj3 actually fits a character like Gotenks, NOT Son Goku
ONE issue with SSJ3 is there was ONLY SSJ3.
Uh Vegeta just got it, and GOT A MEANINGFUL WIN WITH THE FORM, meaning that it is not completely useless outside of Goku using it, As Vegeta got the first SSJ3 win in over 30 years defeating tamagami 2, and making the form look strong and powerful again.
I agree that ssj3 is not a good form overall, but the regression argument not so much. Wouldn't there be a point where the raw boost in power overshadows the drawback of energy use?
What’s stopping them from making Gotenks being the only able to mastering SSJ3 going forward?
My issue with SSJ3 is that it dismisses the whole mastery element that was the build up to SSJ2. SSJ2 had a whole saga dedicated to Goku and Vegeta both trying to figure out how to master Super Saiyan and go beyond. SSJ3 just feels like a situational move like Kaioken. Good for a quick powerup but bad for a longer fight. It doesn't represent any kind of greater mastery or understanding of the Super Saiyan form. It's just a temporary raw power increase.
Its because and god bless toryama but its because toryama does not like the form he hates it
Yo Sage My Boi You Should React To What If Goku Used Super Saiyan 3 Against Majin Vegeta By Carthu's Dojo Next Please Sage?!
The point of ss3 is to be bad or at least not the answer
Ssj3 should be a better version of grade 2 and three with more speed and agility but the stamina drain isn’t that bad but it’s still there and also maybe a precursor to super Saiyan four
What I hate about the "oh goku the one who mastered super saiyan made an inefficient form" argument is that GOKU DID NOT KNOW SINCE HE HAD INFINITE STAMINA IN HEAVEN. OML
That’s not true Vegeta was exhausted and lost so much energy he was knocked out from super saiyan against Kid Buu in the afterlife
That’s why Goku didn’t know it would drain so much energy and stamina because you drain it even more in living body
@@DgSezn No, the difference between goku being dead in the afterlife and Vegeta being dead was Vegeta was granted a pass, the same pass Goku got when he went to Earth for 1 day and we know that body has stamina while Goku being in the afterlife(Dead goku who cannot physically teleport to earth) has INFINITE STAMINA.
Goku even stated that SS3 is a form only to be used in the afterlife because on earth (even with his dead body pass) He gets exhausted while in the afterlife he doesn't, he doesn't even feel the effects and says so himself when he regained his life.
@@Jeff-fo3ck Goku has been shown to to use too much energy in the afterlife that’s the whole reason he had to run on it instead of flying and why he used the nimbus instead of flying
He never said ss3 never put strain on his body or that he didn’t know about the energy drain cause he said having a living body uses up even more energy
The after life still has the same rules on ki if you use too much you will still run out of it otherwise the Kaio-Ken would be able to stack Infinitely
What if now hear me out Vegeta unlocks super Saiyan 3 and his fight with buu. But he still has to resort to final atonement because of the energy drain
Honestly, I feel like Vegeta should’ve had SSJ3 and had developed it in secret, and Goku should’ve developed Super Kaioken, with Majin Vegeta SSJ2 being stronger than SSJ2 Goku, forcing him to power down and break out Super Kaioken, which pushes Majin Vegeta to reveal his trump card of SSJ3 when he realizes that Goku either
A: Didn’t discover it himself
Or much more likely
B): Chose to go a different path as he felt it was ineffective in comparison to the potential of Super Kaioken
*Top 3 best form in the whole show*
Dragon fist!
8:14 Pretty sure it’s brought up the SSJ3 he has not trained with it in a alive body. Also DB Super hoe Goku every chance they get