Hehehe. I know he does do a Khon Kaen Pizza which uses some local sausage and the like. The Thais love this one. I prefer the real Italian meats and toppings personally.
Love science, pizza, and cold rise dough! Great content. I just subscribed and look forward to more deep dives. I’m going to give the 15% whole wheat pizza dough a spin. What are your thoughts on oil / fats preventing a crispy crust?
Actually alot has to do with baking times and Temps. As you saw in my video...the baking process for professional pizzaolos is fast and high. Regarding oils and fats, follow this guys recipe. It's amazing!
Thanks! If I understand correctly the DDT is 25C and DIRECTLY put in a 5C fridge? Divide & shape around the 30-hour mark. If not dividing at 30 hrs degass and continue fermenting up to 72hrs. Sounds like the balls would need to be degassed and left to proof on the day of use? I didn't see much about routine on this. The balls like really nice and springy.
@richardcernava4139 Ok, based on this comment, here is my response. 1. It is important that with whatever yeast or "leaven" you use that you understand the timing of the first punch back. This is when YOUR DOUGH HAS DOUBLED IN SIZE. It is NOT a time thing it is a visual reference. If your yeast (or whatever leaven) you are using does not give you double in size in say 12-20 hours then you need to increase it. After the first "punch back" you can either shape your dough into balls OR simply reseal it in the container. Regardless of which option you pick you need to ensure the dough is covered to prevent drying. After 36 hours (or when the dough has doubled in size AGAIN) the dough is again punched back and formed into balls. Now this process is for a pizza business where he needs product on hand and normally will use all his dough within 3 days. Are you a pizza business or a home baker? If you are a home baker, then you can use the dough directly after the first punch back. This is where your yeast balance with time objectives comes into play If a full 36 hours is what you want then you need a punchback plan somewhere in the middle of this time. Pizza is not generally cold fermented (and or cold stored for use) much longer than this unless you are a business and most commonly is prepared one day to bake the next. Although I have no idea how much water is in your dough, the salt levels you use and even what you are using to "leaven" your dough the key for understanding what is going on is the "DOUBLE IN SIZE" factor and the time it takes to achieve this. 3. As noted in the video. Yes you can store dough up to 72 hours if you need to accommodate a stock on hand situation when operating a business. However, if you just want to make bigger batches for personal use you may want to look at freezing some your dough. (Do some research on freezing pizza dough ie when and how)
Great video. Enjoyable to watch and lots of good info. As always. :) Just some mutterings - in no way criticism: It's a shame about the W factor not being an international standard. I bake with a lot of landrace and heritage flours having the W factor would be a good start with a new flour. But, as all bakers know - we need to learn how each flour we bake with behaves anyway. I am not a great fan of autolysis in home bread baking. As you know it was developed to shorten mixing time and reduce dough oxidation *for predominantly white flour doughs.* Read low enzyme flour. And, I am no fan of Improved Mixing in the home either. We can slow ferment our doughs for gluten development for more flavourful bread. Insert -
Oh and PS. I am not a big fan of autolyse also. It has mixed feelings among bakers. Some say critical....other say no real big difference. Technically, the concept is sound, with the real benefits realized with TIME. Ok, 30 minutes may do something, but hours or overnight autolyse will definitely contribute to bacterial action and aid in fermentation. Still, I am lazy and prefer overnight (or longer), fermentation. This pretty much covers all the basis for my liking. 😀 Cheers
@@nobsbaking6391 Yup, as a mere home baker, I totally agree. Modernist Bread is of that opinion too. I'm so pleased that Pizzeria is not near me. I don't have such strong will poser. Chuckles. Cheers
I attempted pizza dough with leaven and cold fermented. After 36 hours I was hardly able to stretch. I’m assuming this is gluten degradation from acid. Any pointers on how to prepare a natural leavened pizza dough that has nice elasticity?
@@richardcernava4139 Hi Did you mean natural leaven? AKA Sourdough? I am cautious of cold fermenting such doughs because, as you say, acidity and gluten degradation. The flour has to have high gluten levels in order to have sufficient gluten after the process. Generally speaking with a natural leaven four to five hour fermentation will develop good flavour as it is those same organic acids which react with the alcohol from the yeast which make the flavours. Yeast doughs produce a lot less acids and thus the helpfulness of the cold fermentation to give those acids that are there more time for their slow reactions. By stretchy I assume you mean elasticity. The only way to preserve that is to start off with high gluten flour such as 14% protein or to reduce the fermentation time by avoiding long cold fermentation with natural leavens. Or, to have a fresh low acidic natural leaven starter. To keep the acid levels lower ferment the starter and the dough at about 24C. The yeast is active at that temperature, but the Lactobacilli are less active. LABS become a lot more active at around 30C and it is they that produce most of the acids. I hope this helps. Cheers
Thank you maestro for featuring this video i've learned a lot from you.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience 🙏 God Bless
Does Giuseppe make an Isan/Italian fusion version, with kai yang topping? It seems only right!😁
Hehehe. I know he does do a Khon Kaen Pizza which uses some local sausage and the like. The Thais love this one. I prefer the real Italian meats and toppings personally.
Do you have a recommendation for a whole wheat flour to mix with the "type 00" flour?
Just a regular whole wheat flour not coarse meal.
Love science, pizza, and cold rise dough! Great content. I just subscribed and look forward to more deep dives. I’m going to give the 15% whole wheat pizza dough a spin. What are your thoughts on oil / fats preventing a crispy crust?
Actually alot has to do with baking times and Temps. As you saw in my video...the baking process for professional pizzaolos is fast and high. Regarding oils and fats, follow this guys recipe. It's amazing!
Oh and PS. welcome to the NO BS family. 😀
Thanks! If I understand correctly the DDT is 25C and DIRECTLY put in a 5C fridge? Divide & shape around the 30-hour mark. If not dividing at 30 hrs degass and continue fermenting up to 72hrs. Sounds like the balls would need to be degassed and left to proof on the day of use? I didn't see much about routine on this. The balls like really nice and springy.
@richardcernava4139
Ok, based on this comment, here is my response.
1. It is important that with whatever yeast or "leaven" you use that you understand the timing of the first punch back. This is when YOUR DOUGH HAS DOUBLED IN SIZE. It is NOT a time thing it is a visual reference. If your yeast (or whatever leaven) you are using does not give you double in size in say 12-20 hours then you need to increase it. After the first "punch back" you can either shape your dough into balls OR simply reseal it in the container.
Regardless of which option you pick you need to ensure the dough is covered to prevent drying.
After 36 hours (or when the dough has doubled in size AGAIN) the dough is again punched back and formed into balls.
Now this process is for a pizza business where he needs product on hand and normally will use all his dough within 3 days. Are you a pizza business or a home baker? If you are a home baker, then you can use the dough directly after the first punch back. This is where your yeast balance with time objectives comes into play If a full 36 hours is what you want then you need a punchback plan somewhere in the middle of this time. Pizza is not generally cold fermented (and or cold stored for use) much longer than this unless you are a business and most commonly is prepared one day to bake the next.
Although I have no idea how much water is in your dough, the salt levels you use and even what you are using to "leaven" your dough the key for understanding what is going on is the "DOUBLE IN SIZE" factor and the time it takes to achieve this.
3. As noted in the video. Yes you can store dough up to 72 hours if you need to accommodate a stock on hand situation when operating a business. However, if you just want to make bigger batches for personal use you may want to look at freezing some your dough. (Do some research on freezing pizza dough ie when and how)
@@richardcernava4139
PS regarding your comment about degassing before final proof.. ALWAYS.
I was there 2 years ago, but unfortunately, the pizzeria was closed 😂.
The music from the water festival was played longer than needed 😄
Hahahaha that's why there is fast forward on youtube
Great video.
Enjoyable to watch and lots of good info. As always. :)
Just some mutterings - in no way criticism:
It's a shame about the W factor not being an international standard. I bake with a lot of landrace and heritage flours having the W factor would be a good start with a new flour. But, as all bakers know - we need to learn how each flour we bake with behaves anyway.
I am not a great fan of autolysis in home bread baking. As you know it was developed to shorten mixing time and reduce dough oxidation *for predominantly white flour doughs.* Read low enzyme flour.
And, I am no fan of Improved Mixing in the home either. We can slow ferment our doughs for gluten development for more flavourful bread. Insert -
Hahaha no problems. Your obvious skilled opinions are welcome.
Cheers
JP
Oh and PS.
I am not a big fan of autolyse also. It has mixed feelings among bakers. Some say critical....other say no real big difference. Technically, the concept is sound, with the real benefits realized with TIME. Ok, 30 minutes may do something, but hours or overnight autolyse will definitely contribute to bacterial action and aid in fermentation.
Still, I am lazy and prefer overnight (or longer), fermentation. This pretty much covers all the basis for my liking. 😀
Cheers
@@nobsbaking6391 Yup, as a mere home baker, I totally agree. Modernist Bread is of that opinion too.
I'm so pleased that Pizzeria is not near me. I don't have such strong will poser. Chuckles.
Cheers
I attempted pizza dough with leaven and cold fermented. After 36 hours I was hardly able to stretch. I’m assuming this is gluten degradation from acid. Any pointers on how to prepare a natural leavened pizza dough that has nice elasticity?
@@richardcernava4139 Hi
Did you mean natural leaven? AKA Sourdough? I am cautious of cold fermenting such doughs because, as you say, acidity and gluten degradation. The flour has to have high gluten levels in order to have sufficient gluten after the process.
Generally speaking with a natural leaven four to five hour fermentation will develop good flavour as it is those same organic acids which react with the alcohol from the yeast which make the flavours. Yeast doughs produce a lot less acids and thus the helpfulness of the cold fermentation to give those acids that are there more time for their slow reactions.
By stretchy I assume you mean elasticity. The only way to preserve that is to start off with high gluten flour such as 14% protein or to reduce the fermentation time by avoiding long cold fermentation with natural leavens. Or, to have a fresh low acidic natural leaven starter. To keep the acid levels lower ferment the starter and the dough at about 24C. The yeast is active at that temperature, but the Lactobacilli are less active. LABS become a lot more active at around 30C and it is they that produce most of the acids.
I hope this helps. Cheers