We tried every method we could find with some old chains we had. We found they are all within one full link of each other. I always use method two, my boss uses the same kind of thing as method two, though, by using the maximum length, not the minimum.
This may help some. I just replaced the chain of my bike (Cannondale Evo /Sram Red 10sp) and tried the three different ways. I would have removed 7 links using the big-big way and 6 using both the small small trough the derailleur and math way. I ended up removing 6 as 7 seemed a bit tight for me.
Be careful using method two on shimano 11 speed with shadow rear derailleur. Depending on if your B screw was adjusted correctly, or at all on a new install, that will have a an impact on the measurement you get. I’d suggest using method #1 for the above instances. As an side, I got a brand new cannondale Topstone 105SE that had a chain two links too long, and the B screw was run in practically all the way to make up for the slack (the jockey wheel was nowhere near where it should of been). When I corrected the length using method #1, I had to go back and adjust the B screw about 3-4 turns out from where it had been, but the jockey wheel was now where it should be in proximity to the biggest cog, and the slack was properly taken up in the small-small gears.
I tried the first and second methods to see if there was any difference. The set up is a 48-38-28 triple on the front and a 12-28 on the rear. With the second method the chain was three inches longer than the first. If I can be bothered to faff around with measurements and maths I might do the third later. My own method is to put the chain on the big ring at the front and the small ring at the rear and set the chain so the derailleur cage is vertical. Doing this gave me a length between the two other measurements.
Excellent informative video. Method one did the trick for my bike. Upgraded the front sprocket to a higher tooth count and wasn’t sure how to measure a new chain before this video.
FOR TRIPLE CRANKSET USERS: If you are like me and are measuring the chain using the chainring/cassette method for a TRIPLE CRANKSET, then the little/little method is more accurate. This is because you can see and make sure that the rear derailleur is stretched far enough to keep the chain from rubbing. You can still use the big/big method, however instead of adding two links only add ONE link. The reason being is because the difference from the biggest to the smallest chainring on a triple is larger vs. a double chainring.
Thank you Dan; very clear demonstration. Too many chain takes on-line! I use the second method you demonstrated. Soooo easy and never had a problem. GCN-best.
How I do it is the easiest way. Shimano chain, put the chain on the largest sprocket in de back and the largest sprocket in the front. Just as in this video for Method I. Pull the chain tight, find the corresponding link. Add two full links and cut the chain there. KMC chains, same procedure, only when you add two full links then go one back and cut the chain there and attach the missing link. This works for me every time with no hassle. I use this method on single, double and triple systems and it always works fine.
If not much trouble, could you please cut 3 chains using 3 methods and line them side by side? What's about setups with roadlinks and other "extensions" for "spin to win" oriented climbing? The reason why I'm asking is that I'd suggest that the method that results in longer chain length shall be used as a starting point. One can remove some link(s) if the chain rattles when coasting. The recommended by GCN " helicopter tape" must be applied to the chain stay before experimentation.
What I've always done was putting chain on the biggest chainring in front and biggest cog in the back and stretching it so the cage is moved almost maximum to the front. In worst case scenario the chain would scratch the cage when on smallest cogs (rear and front), which would meant either that the cage is to short or cassette and chainrings don't match. Although you don't risk breaking rear derailleur.
Thanks for the vid and for explaining so well what I'd been struggling a little to interpret on the page. I'll have to wait until Monday to see how the bike rides but I'm feeling fairly confident about getting it right next time even if I didn't manage it this time.
I used method 1, then put the chain through the derailleur and connected it together. Then check the chain isn't rubbing against itself at rear derailleur when on smallest cogs (though how many people cycle with gears set on those cogs - to much flex in it under those circumstances). If in doubt, start with a slightly longer length, as it's easier to remove a link than having to putting one in (and it's more secure).
Method 2 is best all-around, although it sacrifices some shifting crispness...which is why the Shimano method works on cage angle to give the best performance.
I've always big big plus two with a medium cage rear mech. If running a longer cage method two might be ideal. A rear mech can take up some extra slack, but if two short you always have problems when shifting in unusual chain angles
First method give shortest possible. Second method give Longest possible. Third one give somewhat short too. Shimano's one in their tech doc give quite medium length. (big chain ring+smallest cassette through all derailleur and the rd going straight down vertically). For me, i trust Shimano.
A trick is to put FD into the big ring and the RD into second last big gear in back. Feed the whole chain through the big ring into the cassette through that gear ( second biggest cog). Continue to feed the chain into the pulleys all the way and now bring the 2 chain pieces together, hold them with the c clip tool. Now move the rear derailleur bottom cage by hand forward to 2 inches past the cassette biggest. Now use the c clip to move out chain links untill the excess is out. Cut chain here to fit. This is the proper way to do this as it eliminates all guessing.
Which method is best though? It would have been interesting to see a comparison of all three methods to see how close they are and also to see which length you guys prefer.
YMMV, but I think using the shortest cog and chainring is better, because you may want to change your cassette for one with larger cogs depending on the terrain
In my opinion whichever method you use you have to make sure that the chain is not shorter than the result of method 1. Chain has to be long enough to allow for big-big combination even if you don't normally use it. Otherwise you risk snapping the chain or damaging the drivetrain if you selected that gears by accident.
would be nice to see method 1 used then fitted through the derailleur. I only have 1 from sprocket and 7 rear so I would think that would be the best. Is there any metric equation ? :)
I'd be tempted to suggest that (the late, great) Sheldon Brown's method (no 1) ought to give the same result as the mathmatical method (no 3) as it's fundamentally doing the same thing. SB also mentions that "SRAM 1X systems require two extra complete links."
Are there different gauges of chain??? How do I know which power link to buy??? I am fixing up an old bike.... I don't know anything about bikes.... I would appreciate any help........
curiously, while Daniel shows putting the chain on the big chainwheel and big cog, stretch it tight and back off one, the video he points to shows Simon pulling the chain tight and backing off two links. Way to be consistent, guys.
If you're not using a power link, you should be. Best invention ever... Yup, even better than your iPhone. Makes cleaning your bike and drivetrain a breeze.
Can you help me understand why the second method has to be on flat ground? I don't see how that would have any impact on the chain sizing vs. on a work stand?
I just got a used bike . The small cog gear on the derailleur is toughing the gear set gear . I adjusted the B screw all the way in but its not enough to move it away so that there is space between them . How does the spring that is around the derailleur bolt into the frame work ?
Whoever had the idea of zooming out when he's pointing out something is either a troll or not the sharpest tool in the shed. Otherwise, I appreciate your help. Thanks a lot.
Sorry if this is a dumb question: are these methods also valid for "crank forward" designs? A friend gave me an Electra Townie 700c 21 speed several years ago, and it needs a new chain. Several forums have mentioned that crank forward bikes usually require especially long chains (around 1 1/2 times the length of a traditional design), but so far I haven't found any that get into the particulars of figuring out how long a chain is needed, and of course Electra's website has zero useful information on where to get compatible parts.
If you use method 2 as your chain measurement, can you reduce the big chain ring from a 52t to a 50t without adjusting the length of the chain? It would seem you would need to if using method 1.
Hi, please let me know if there is a calculation available for a set up including both 1} ) an oval chain ring; and 2) ceramic speed pulley wheels. Thnx
2:40 that is how I adjusted on my bike, I fell off the bike 2 times because I was pedaling standing (not on seat) and while hitting small bumps chain jumped off the front sprocket. I think it needs to be more tight.
Hi great video and very educational indeed. Question. For method 3. 1. Applicable to Single Speed? 2. Application to Single Speed with OSPW? I have tried this method and discovered that my chain is too long by 10cm. Any negative effect on my drivetrain is its too long?
Campagnolo users should note that they need to use a Campagnolo specific method. When I used these method my chain was three links too short! Search “Park Tools : How to size a Campagnolo Bicycle chain”
If the first two methods give the same chain length. I use first one but now it seem to me my chain is little (about 4 links) short. May be second method is the best one with taking one link less.
Uhm, Just attempted method three on a custom build project. Measured twice, counted twice (to be certain), then applied those calc's into your formula... When the outcome produced a Chain that's "FAR TOO SHORT", I retraced my calc's, re-equated them again to your formula, then became annoyed as I followed your instruction verbatim! ...This method might work in limited situations but certainly does not in my case.
@@mynameisHOPKIRK it does in this specific case. what people [and me] want to know is, do the 3 methods give reproducible results using the ^SAME^ gear ratio, ie the bike in this video. science.
Does any of these three method could be use with a MTB and "1 x 10 or 1 x 11 setups" to get optimal chain length ?I'm running a 1 x 10 hardtail fatbike, (10 - 42 at the back and 30 tooth oval chainring at the front) and I think the second method will be spot on, but what your thoughts ?Cheers
But how do we know what length (no of links) chain to buy in the first place? Is there a way to calculate this based on cassette and chainring size? I'm rebuilding an old Specialized MTB that had no chain to start with.
Say I am installing a new chain on a bicycle built from scratch. Do I install the shifter and shifting cables first, or do I install the chain first and then the shifting cables?
Looking at the video, method 1 doesn't need the derailleur while method 2 you need the chain to go through the rear derailleur. I'm like you, I'm searching for the right chain sizing video. I'll probably use the first one. Since I have not installed my derailleur yet.
Zooming out at a crucial time of the video.. thanks
Method 3 really worked, my chain was 3.7 cm longer, that's why the gears didn't change smoothly, now everything is perfect. Thank you so much.
it would have been interesting to know just how many links each method ended up suggesting as the optional length as a comparison.
Followed first method large chainring front and large at the back plus add on two extra links worked a treat so simple to do. Cheers
You should have compare each chain length for each method, then you can go to the conclusion. That would be much more awesome !!
yes, that !
I came here looking for this exact comment!
Agree!
We tried every method we could find with some old chains we had. We found they are all within one full link of each other.
I always use method two, my boss uses the same kind of thing as method two, though, by using the maximum length, not the minimum.
It's amazing how complicated this can be! Thankfully, most of the time we can use an existing chain to compare!
GCN you should have compared the number of links for each method to see how comparable they were! Science!
I just tried both, used a marker pen to mark the link and got the same results with both methods.
Its logic, not science.
@@ddpp3492 Vulcan go home!
@@copypaste3526 lol
This may help some. I just replaced the chain of my bike (Cannondale Evo /Sram Red 10sp) and tried the three different ways. I would have removed 7 links using the big-big way and 6 using both the small small trough the derailleur and math way. I ended up removing 6 as 7 seemed a bit tight for me.
For years and years I've wasted hours trying to get the chain length right .... thankyou for such a useful video.
Be careful using method two on shimano 11 speed with shadow rear derailleur. Depending on if your B screw was adjusted correctly, or at all on a new install, that will have a an impact on the measurement you get. I’d suggest using method #1 for the above instances. As an side, I got a brand new cannondale Topstone 105SE that had a chain two links too long, and the B screw was run in practically all the way to make up for the slack (the jockey wheel was nowhere near where it should of been). When I corrected the length using method #1, I had to go back and adjust the B screw about 3-4 turns out from where it had been, but the jockey wheel was now where it should be in proximity to the biggest cog, and the slack was properly taken up in the small-small gears.
I tried the first and second methods to see if there was any difference. The set up is a 48-38-28 triple on the front and a 12-28 on the rear. With the second method the chain was three inches longer than the first. If I can be bothered to faff around with measurements and maths I might do the third later.
My own method is to put the chain on the big ring at the front and the small ring at the rear and set the chain so the derailleur cage is vertical. Doing this gave me a length between the two other measurements.
Excellent informative video. Method one did the trick for my bike. Upgraded the front sprocket to a higher tooth count and wasn’t sure how to measure a new chain before this video.
THANK YOU! This was the best presentation for me regarding the standard male to female linkage as well as the allowance for a quick/master link!!!
thank you so much! Method 3 enabled me to check the factory installed length. Perfect.
FOR TRIPLE CRANKSET USERS: If you are like me and are measuring the chain using the chainring/cassette method for a TRIPLE CRANKSET, then the little/little method is more accurate. This is because you can see and make sure that the rear derailleur is stretched far enough to keep the chain from rubbing. You can still use the big/big method, however instead of adding two links only add ONE link. The reason being is because the difference from the biggest to the smallest chainring on a triple is larger vs. a double chainring.
Thank you Dan; very clear demonstration. Too many chain takes on-line! I use the second method you demonstrated. Soooo easy and never had a problem. GCN-best.
Method 2 is the best. Simple and effective.
How I do it is the easiest way. Shimano chain, put the chain on the largest sprocket in de back and the largest sprocket in the front. Just as in this video for Method I. Pull the chain tight, find the corresponding link. Add two full links and cut the chain there. KMC chains, same procedure, only when you add two full links then go one back and cut the chain there and attach the missing link. This works for me every time with no hassle. I use this method on single, double and triple systems and it always works fine.
Thanks GCN for posting, great help. If it helps anyone else, I used method 2 and it gave me a chain length that matched my old chain length exactly.
If not much trouble, could you please cut 3 chains using 3 methods and line them side by side?
What's about setups with roadlinks and other "extensions" for "spin to win" oriented climbing?
The reason why I'm asking is that I'd suggest that the method that results in longer chain length shall be used as a starting point. One can remove some link(s) if the chain rattles when coasting. The recommended by GCN " helicopter tape" must be applied to the chain stay before experimentation.
Great video i used method 1 and 3 you cant't go wrong thanks
Just did method 2, looking forward to commute tomorrow 👍
Small cog to small chain ring always works for me. Thanks
have to agree with all comments below there spot on, as using big to big leaves more tension on rear derailleur than the other way.
Thanks! That was exactly what I needed. It measured out all three ways. You guys are great!
What I've always done was putting chain on the biggest chainring in front and biggest cog in the back and stretching it so the cage is moved almost maximum to the front. In worst case scenario the chain would scratch the cage when on smallest cogs (rear and front), which would meant either that the cage is to short or cassette and chainrings don't match. Although you don't risk breaking rear derailleur.
Yes, a much more common sense method.
Method 1, camera zooms out every time he says "here" and "there"?!!! Can't see which links he's pointing at...
Yes I know, that was really annoying!!
He definitely needs to redo version 1
Lawrence Ball exactly what I'm dealing with right now 😂😂
Here there and everywhere!
And points with fat thumbs
Tried method 3 for my already fitted chain (114 links) and the equation gave 113.5, pretty accurate in my case!
What equation did you use to figure out the number of links from method 3?
Thanks for the vid and for explaining so well what I'd been struggling a little to interpret on the page. I'll have to wait until Monday to see how the bike rides but I'm feeling fairly confident about getting it right next time even if I didn't manage it this time.
You're welcome!
You could have provided link counts for every method, it would be interesting to compare.
Shimano reccommends to add 4-6 Links if you work with the first method, otherwise you run the risk of overextending the rear derailleur.
I used method 1, then put the chain through the derailleur and connected it together. Then check the chain isn't rubbing against itself at rear derailleur when on smallest cogs (though how many people cycle with gears set on those cogs - to much flex in it under those circumstances). If in doubt, start with a slightly longer length, as it's easier to remove a link than having to putting one in (and it's more secure).
Well done. Nice and concise. You answered all of the detailed questions i had in my head.
Excellent and thank you. How does one turn the soundtrack off without losing the voice?
Good tips
Method 2 is best all-around, although it sacrifices some shifting crispness...which is why the Shimano method works on cage angle to give the best performance.
I've always big big plus two with a medium cage rear mech. If running a longer cage method two might be ideal. A rear mech can take up some extra slack, but if two short you always have problems when shifting in unusual chain angles
First method give shortest possible.
Second method give Longest possible.
Third one give somewhat short too.
Shimano's one in their tech doc give quite medium length.
(big chain ring+smallest cassette through all derailleur and the rd going straight down vertically).
For me, i trust Shimano.
A trick is to put FD into the big ring and the RD into second last big gear in back. Feed the whole chain through the big ring into the cassette through that gear ( second biggest cog). Continue to feed the chain into the pulleys all the way and now bring the 2 chain pieces together, hold them with the c clip tool. Now move the rear derailleur bottom cage by hand forward to 2 inches past the cassette biggest. Now use the c clip to move out chain links untill the excess is out. Cut chain here to fit. This is the proper way to do this as it eliminates all guessing.
Replaced a chain for the first time last week literally without having a single thought about the chain length... Bike rides great! Lucky!
Which method is best though? It would have been interesting to see a comparison of all three methods to see how close they are and also to see which length you guys prefer.
I was thinking exactly the same thing - how do the three methods compare on the example bike.
YMMV, but I think using the shortest cog and chainring is better, because you may want to change your cassette for one with larger cogs depending on the terrain
+xGshikamaru Yes that seems sensible. Thanks.
In my opinion whichever method you use you have to make sure that the chain is not shorter than the result of method 1. Chain has to be long enough to allow for big-big combination even if you don't normally use it. Otherwise you risk snapping the chain or damaging the drivetrain if you selected that gears by accident.
lel
Can you combine 2 chain to make a longer chain?
would be nice to see method 1 used then fitted through the derailleur. I only have 1 from sprocket and 7 rear so I would think that would be the best. Is there any metric equation ? :)
Thanks, this is going to come handy next weekend when I'll be swapping my big chainring for 50t down from 52t!
I'd be tempted to suggest that (the late, great) Sheldon Brown's method (no 1) ought to give the same result as the mathmatical method (no 3) as it's fundamentally doing the same thing. SB also mentions that "SRAM 1X systems require two extra complete links."
Thanks for the video, I didn't understand anything
Good video, i want to know how many links in my ideal chain +/- delta?
Dan the future voice of the tour
Liked method 2 the best.
Are there different gauges of chain??? How do I know which power link to buy??? I am fixing up an old bike.... I don't know anything about bikes.... I would appreciate any help........
would like to see all 3 next to each other see what the length similarity is
I have used the equasion method and it worked. Great
When using the big chain ring, big sprocket technique should I pull the derailleur taught?
curiously, while Daniel shows putting the chain on the big chainwheel and big cog, stretch it tight and back off one, the video he points to shows Simon pulling the chain tight and backing off two links. Way to be consistent, guys.
If you're not using a power link, you should be. Best invention ever... Yup, even better than your iPhone. Makes cleaning your bike and drivetrain a breeze.
lol
Is a power link the same thing as a Master Link? I see both terms used and I'm new to biking.
That is why you use a KMC chain :)
I was so impressed that I donated to you on patreon. Find your money here, and there.
Cheers. Followed your method 1. Chain far too short... Great stuff ffs
Did the method one and the chain is far too short as well !
That deserves a CLICK on the globe . I subscribed :)
Can you help me understand why the second method has to be on flat ground? I don't see how that would have any impact on the chain sizing vs. on a work stand?
I just got a used bike . The small cog gear on the derailleur is toughing the gear set gear . I adjusted the B screw all the way in but its not enough to move it away so that there is space between them . How does the spring that is around the derailleur bolt into the frame work ?
Whoever had the idea of zooming out when he's pointing out something is either a troll or not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Otherwise, I appreciate your help. Thanks a lot.
Very helpful 😮
Works Great !
that was great just what l was looking for AND l like there s 3 options .l assume this even takes into account for different size derailleurs too??
Thanks bro
Really well prepared video!
Sorry if this is a dumb question: are these methods also valid for "crank forward" designs? A friend gave me an Electra Townie 700c 21 speed several years ago, and it needs a new chain. Several forums have mentioned that crank forward bikes usually require especially long chains (around 1 1/2 times the length of a traditional design), but so far I haven't found any that get into the particulars of figuring out how long a chain is needed, and of course Electra's website has zero useful information on where to get compatible parts.
If you use method 2 as your chain measurement, can you reduce the big chain ring from a 52t to a 50t without adjusting the length of the chain? It would seem you would need to if using method 1.
Would method #3 still work if using an oversized wheel pulley….?
Hi, please let me know if there is a calculation available for a set up including both 1} ) an oval chain ring; and 2) ceramic speed pulley wheels. Thnx
I'm considering moving to a set of Rotor Q-Rings. Are there any special concerns in gauging the correct chain length?
Love the podium pic of Si in the background
TY
Great video
Thank you
Surely method 1 and method 3 depend on if you running a short cage or long cage mech?!
I think method 2 makes the most sense since today's derailleurs manage to stretch out much further when using the big rings.
2:40 that is how I adjusted on my bike, I fell off the bike 2 times because I was pedaling standing (not on seat) and while hitting small bumps chain jumped off the front sprocket. I think it needs to be more tight.
It would suggest your tensioner is worn out or doesn't move freely because of dirt in its joint
Hi great video and very educational indeed. Question. For method 3.
1. Applicable to Single Speed?
2. Application to Single Speed with OSPW?
I have tried this method and discovered that my chain is too long by 10cm. Any negative effect on my drivetrain is its too long?
i love that bike so much
Does all this calculations work for an oval chainring as well?
Can I apply this method even though my rd has an oversized ceramic speed pulley?
Do all three and use the two closest lengths!
Very informative and awesome video. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and techniques to the world.
Dear GCN can you please compare chain length of three methods. Viewers are interested to know that....
Campagnolo users should note that they need to use a Campagnolo specific method. When I used these method my chain was three links too short! Search “Park Tools : How to size a Campagnolo Bicycle chain”
If the first two methods give the same chain length. I use first one but now it seem to me my chain is little (about 4 links) short. May be second method is the best one with taking one link less.
Uhm, Just attempted method three on a custom build project. Measured twice, counted twice (to be certain), then applied those calc's into your formula... When the outcome produced a Chain that's "FAR TOO SHORT", I retraced my calc's, re-equated them again to your formula, then became annoyed as I followed your instruction verbatim! ...This method might work in limited situations but certainly does not in my case.
I like method 2 the best since I ride 1x with fat cassettes so it puts the least amount of stress on the mech in the largest cog.
Well, was waiting for how many links or the length measurement for each of the 3 different methods. :(
That doesn't matter... each specific set up will have its own particular length depending on what gear ratio you have on your bike.... you know.
@@mynameisHOPKIRK it does in this specific case. what people [and me] want to know is, do the 3 methods give reproducible results using the ^SAME^ gear ratio, ie the bike in this video. science.
Does any of these three method could be use with a MTB and "1 x 10 or 1 x 11 setups" to get optimal chain length ?I'm running a 1 x 10 hardtail fatbike, (10 - 42 at the back and 30 tooth oval chainring at the front) and I think the second method will be spot on, but what your thoughts ?Cheers
It would be nice if the video or text also included the equation for chain length in cm, for those of us who aren’t metrically impaired.
multiply or divide by 2.54, as you know. Chains are made in inches, like it or not
But how do we know what length (no of links) chain to buy in the first place? Is there a way to calculate this based on cassette and chainring size? I'm rebuilding an old Specialized MTB that had no chain to start with.
Method 3 then
best for the money.
If i use the 1st method (big chain and big cog) and have a medium cage derailleur do i need to add a link or two?
Knowing me I'm going to use all three methods to make sure I get it right. I hope there is no conflicts.
is it true that while using the equation, if your jockey wheels have 11 teeth instead of 10, you add 2 to the final outcome?
Can I use method 2 if I have a single chainring up front?
this has been a great help mate thank you very much : )
Does these methods work for oval chainrings like rotor and osymetric?
Say I am installing a new chain on a bicycle built from scratch. Do I install the shifter and shifting cables first, or do I install the chain first and then the shifting cables?
Looking at the video, method 1 doesn't need the derailleur while method 2 you need the chain to go through the rear derailleur. I'm like you, I'm searching for the right chain sizing video. I'll probably use the first one. Since I have not installed my derailleur yet.
Hi there. What would happen if you make your chain one link loger or one link shorter? Is it a big deal? Thanks,
too short is a big deal and dangerous, too long is not as big of a deal.