Priests aren't forced to perform marriages. The Roman Catholic Church and Church of England don't perform gay marriages. It is actually still illegal for the Church of England to perform them.
Yeah that really bothered me, just a bloke arguing something that is untrue (and he almost certainly knows is untrue), very strange. If his objection was that Marriage should be a religious affair and should be between opposite sexes, I'd still wholly disagree but just say that. Making up some procedural point about forcing religious officers to officiate marriages they disagree with is strange. Then saying the "damage" is done and that's why there's no one against it now, rather than it made society better and produced happy secure same-sex couples (who then form families and purchase property in the classical Tory vision of an ideal property focused democracy). Rory presses him but gives in when it's clear he will never concede anything, and later correctly points out the actual state of things in the post-interview wrap up.
Ye that really didn’t make sense, no priest is being compelled to perform a gay wedding, they can give a blessing however, that point really made him look silly.
@@user-eq5ub5rs3g I agree but.. There were cases of civil marriage 'doers' losing their jobs by refusing to carry out gay weddings. They were bigoted but it did happen
Well done Rory, you weren't comedically frustrated, you were calling out BS. You were doing the proper thing. I love Alastair, but his, finding it all a laugh because it's his mate, routine, was highly frustrating to watch. Maybe the truest insight to Westminster this podcast has ever given.
I agree - both Campbell and Davis laughing about the fact that Davis had no idea what do to once it was confirmed we'd be leaving the EU (@32:45) was infuriating. Like, Davis pushed for Brexit and now he find's it funny that he didn't have any plan in place for if we left?!
Pipe down. Surgeons and doctors will sometimes make jokes about horrific situations because if you don't, you will die miserable eventually. Engineers will laugh about their terrible implementations. Its part of being human to find ways to bring humour to very difficult situations. However. I do find David to be more establishment than rory at this point. Its his croney brigade in power for the majority of the last 60 years yet he just blames the new lot for not respecting parliament. Well who did they fucking learn from david?
Love to know who was snorting cocaine in the Westminster toilets. I'm convinced Boris would fail a hair follicle test. And this guy. How else can you explain this insane confidence?
Rory not having it, and good on him, really stands his ground. It's clear Rory has a strong moral compass, which is probably why he felt so uncomfortable in parliament.
Rory was a terrible politician, purely because he has such strong principles. People like Davis are able to climb the greasy pole because they’re grubby and lack any real integrity.
@@HomemadeBrownies1 you need to get over your fawning to Tories. Rory walks softly but is at heart a Tory. Self centred, selfish and arrogant. His support for the nasties trying to take over the National Trust to remove references to slave owning was gross as his whining about the green belt being untouchable is selfish and self interested.
@@verityviolet Many across the political spectrum see Protecting the green belt as an important policy. The policy is designed to protect arable lands and maintain the natural environment around towns, suburbs, and villages.
It's very rare that I finish an episode of Leading and end up with a lesser opinion of the guest. Political opinion on the matter aside, Davis came across as a stubborn, defensive tool when discussing gay marriage. Good on Rory for challenging him on it.
His stubborn homophobia on the gay marriage issue was bizarre from a man who claims to follow logic in deciding his political positions. "you've forced these people out of a job as a priest" he says, making priests' feelings more important than gay & bisexuals' human rights. A strange kind of 'logic' indeed
@@oliviaaaaaah1002 Not to mention that the story about priests being forced out for refusing to marry people is a blatant lie. (Some have been forced out for other reasons, obviously.)
I often wonder what the state has to do with what people get up to in their own homes. Why shouldn't folks of the same gender marry? What harm does it do? Is there so much happiness in the world that we should make an effort to stamp some of it out? Like with abortion, it's not about harm to the state, it's about the petty joy of interfering in lives.
David Davis appeared arrogant and sloppy - typical old school guy who has such conviction in his over inflated opinion that he doesn’t listen, digest or consider other points of view.
What Davis says about priests being forced to marry gay couples is just factually wrong. The 2013 act that legalised gay marriage included explicit protections so that they wouldn't have that obligation. They even amended the Equality Act as part of it. He says "if you carry out marriages you carry out marriages" but it's just not true
Haha, what a brilliant answer! I always say things like these about brexit as well. If they always say "the UK and Europe" then maybe it's more factual to stay outside the EU.
God hes so arrogant. His claims on trade are totally specious. His pivot to Taiwan when Rory was speaking about China utterly disingenuous. He was totally unprepared for the european negotiations
Episodes like these would make me angry, but now I'm just relieved that buffoons like Davis are far away from power and we can finally ignore them for a good while.
Neither of you took uphill campaign in support of Alex Salmond and the sturgeon government 's corruption of the Scottish legal system. Alexandra MacRae.
Davis confirms two things we already knew: 1/ That none of the campaigners for leaving the EU, including the likes of Cash, Bone and IDS who had been droning on about it for decades, never wasted a single nanosecond working out what leaving the EU would entail, or what the UK's post-brexit relationship should be. And they never did any planning at all. The analogy is of people wanting the ship they are on to leave a safe haven to embark on a voyage without any thought for where they would end up (and Johnson ensured that they did it without a compass and charts). 2/ His definition of brexit's success is that it isn't as catastrophically bad as some are alleged to have predicted.
They never thought they would win as why would people be so stupid - they could not really believe idiot Cameron and remain had fought such a poor arrogant campaign
I found David Davis to be a surprisingly difficult interviewee. He didn't seem to listen, frequently spoke over Rory, and lacked self-awareness. I would suggest not booking him again.
@@BjørjaBear I read Barnier's book (an excellent read, by the way). I seem to remember that he liked Davis personally but did not rate him professionally. I could be mis-remembering.
I actually found him rather dull and must have fallen asleep a few times as I don't recall much of what was discussed at the end. For all eyesight issues, Cummings was right - he is as thick as mince.
Rory comes in on the attack, like a jilted ex-girlfriend, on a Conservative who at least has some modicum of conservative beliefs. Asking silly gotcha's like were you "wrong" about gay marriage🙄 (perhaps he should ask some of his Afghan friends about that as well). Meanwhile, Nick "Luvvie" Clegg (Director, Global Affiars at Meta) gets the kid gloves. Says it all.
What the last 15 years or so have shown is that our political masters are really not very clever. From Johnson to Raab to Rees-Mogg to Dorries to Truss to Gove, they're so mediocre. They led us into the abyss and now we want to get out, they've disappeared.
Exactly and to spout false economic figures as a 'benefit', someone should ask these Tories every time they do this, why are you not using the standard comparison method instead of the misleading 'micro' comparison method that produces your figures.
The first half of the interview he came across as quite arrogant and smarmy. But, he was much better in the second half. I don’t agree with a lot of what he said but towards the end he was very honest, authentic, and most of all quite impressively, he was ridiculously sharp and quick witted. It was a great interview either way.
‘Despite myself I’m an expert in these bloody things’ ! Such a revealing statement showing that he’s another Liz Truss with no self awareness, arrogantly thinking that all he did was good for the country even as it crumbles before us. So much material for history to play with in his obituary.
“I’ve done more European negotiation than anyone else in the world”. Not only is that obviously bullshit, but it’s also indicative of why we had such a bad rep in Europe pre-Brexit. They always had professional negotiators and we had people like Davies.
@@zensibleone2295 Well Campbell will say anything stupid .... But for the record the difficulty was that Remainers took over Parliament from 2017 to 2019 and blocked everything May tried to do with the EU. Like with majorities of over 250! Starmer was regularly taking instructions from the EU so those people in Parliament like Starmer, Greave, Soubry and Bercow were 5th Columnists damaging our negotiating position. What Johnson was able to salvage in a matter of weeks (or No Deal) showed what could be done with the EU with a strong hand rather than both hands shackled by arcane procedures and (forgive me) traitors who refused to accept the decision made by the UK electorate in 2016.
@@1chish That is total nonsense. The problem is that May was so paranoid about being seen as a Remainer that she insisted on an absurdly hard version of Brexit, one that flatly contradicted all promises made by all of the Leave campaigns. And instead of the prominent voices in Leave correctly saying “No, that’s not what we told the voters we’d do” they all jumped on board and made anything approaching a sensible approach politically impossible. All of which led inevitably to May’s awful deal, and Boris pretending his version was substantially different. Brexit always was and remains a terrible idea, and the likes of Johnson, Farage and Davies did everything they could to make sure it was as bad as it could possibly be. And far too many leavers are pathetically scrabbling around for arguments to pretend that something other than Brexit being a stupid idea is the cause of it going so badly.
His towering conceit is only matched by his ignorance and total lack of self-awareness. That a man like this can become so successful is as damning an indictment of our political system as any ive ever seen.
Unfortunately, people like this are doing better than they should in many white collar jobs. Particularly successful in the short term, where their massive egos and ability to deflect questions land them the big job. Usually they benefit from leaving quickly because they are, in fact, useless and damaging, and get found out.
I don't think he's been successful. His Brexit project has been a failure and it's arguable that his beloved Thatcher's project is now proven to be a failure too.
One thing has been proved over the last fifteen years is that you don't need brains to succeed in British politics. I wonder how many of our politicians have ridden high at PMQs on a tide of cocaine.
Excellent. I’m a retired Anglican priest and long term Labour Party member, and I greatly enjoy this channel. I find it so creative, and admire how you get things to hold together, and how you draw people into the debate. I think you two are a great combination, and you enable insight which is often missing. David Davies is an interesting man doing politics for the right reasons. Whilst I’ll always be Labour, it was a sad day for me when Rory dropped out of the leadership race, and I hope he will one day return to front line politics. Great interview. Thank you.
What an egotistical, unpleasant man, right up there with David Frum, but not quite at the height of "obnoxiousness" of James Rubin. Thank you, Rory, for being a voice of compassion, sense, and logic; which you endeavor to inject into the conversation.
It's just an old school arguing (not debating) technique as it's often doing the same as butting in, by dominating the talking space, but it comes off as peevish if you get wound up by laughter.
The fact that he sits back and laughs over the Brexit vote shows his utter lack of seriousness over this affair. A shameful position, given that it's done such damage. He ought to swing for it. A fool, if I ever saw one.
A fascinating character. I can see why Davis didn't become leader, he doesn't fit neatly into any 'box'. Like Rory I would agree with many of his views on the loss of meritocracy, etc but, also agreeing with Rory, his refusal to accept the he's been wrong about anything was very annoying. On Brexit, the idea that we are doing more with Far Eastern economies such as Taiwan because of Brexit is utterly fatuous, there was nothing stopping us as members and there's nothing helping us now.
Errr ... there was something stopping us in our trade policies. It was called the EU, its ownership of ALL trade policy and the fallout from it External Tariff. We traded with non EU countries on EU terms not British terms which are very different. We can now, for example, trade freely with every member of the CPTPP which is the fastest growing group of economies in the world. member states of the EU cannot do that.
@@Smiffy55ukx ... Sigh .... and now we have poor sarcasm .... Are you really that stupid you think I cannot see what you did there? Let me quote from the Statistiches Bundesamt: "According to preliminary results, goods worth 254.5 billion euros were traded between Germany and the People's Republic of China in 2023 (exports and imports)" Note 'IMPORTS are included. In fact Germany ran a nett trade deficit with China to the tune of $145 Bn a year. But in exports which are the key one the top three in 2023 were: USA: $170.77 billion. France: $125.8 billion. Netherlands: $119.13 billion. FunFact: when the UK was in the EU it ran a nett trading deficit of over £75 Bn a year. Since leaving that deficit has fallen by 30%. So the cost of trading with the EU is less as we increase trade with non EU countries. Don't try to be clever mate. Just have a factual discussion.
@@1chish "We traded with non EU countries on EU terms not British terms which are very different." with only a few exceptions, such as the nearly utterly useless (to us) CPTPP, we trade today on almost the exact same terms as we did when we were in the EU. The UK has largely just rolled over all the previous agreements. Also, the CPTPP is a laughable thing to bring up because the UK already had bilateral trade deals (again, rolled over) with nearly all the members of the CPTPP. Thus, the OBR calculated that in the long term (over 15 years) the increase in GDP is likely to be: 0.04%. Trade expert David Henig stated that benefits from Britain's accession to the trade bloc impact had been "hugely overhyped", adding that "some companies will benefit, but the effects will be very small"
@@DaveArray Last point first: Henig is Director of the UK Trade Policy Project at the think-tank European Centre for International Political Economy (ECIPE). He works at Utrecht University. So no bias there then ... 😂🤣 How can we trade on the same terms when the decisions are made by OUR elected Government not an unelected bureaucracy in Brussels. You denigrate the trade deals done as 'roll overs' when that is just not true. For example we have trade deals with countries that have no trade deal with the EU (which really only has 4). So explain that? And you cap your bias by calling the CPTPP " utterly useless". A trading bloc with a combined gross domestic product (GDP) of around £12 trillion. 🤦♂ If CPTPP is so pointless why do 11 of the fastest growing economies belong to it .....
What a thoroughly unpleasant man. He's factually wrong about priests 'having' to conduct gay marriages, which they actually still cannot do, he overinflates his standing in Europe, so poor was he at his job he was 'sidelined' when he produced failure after failure. Yet despite this seems to have arrogance beyond nearly anyone I can see in British politics at the moment. Not sure what he is 'Leading' but he had absolutely no worth in interviewing
He seems at one point to have conflated China with Taiwan. How did this guy get to the position he was in? Arrogant, ill-informed and rude - Rory displayed levels of patience that warranted canonisation.
The level of arrogance spilling out of Stephen Jones-Williams is outstanding. I’ve rarely seen someone so foolish and so self deluded. steviechat absolutely destroyed him.
He wasn't destroyed at all, though he was (I think) wrong about churches being forced to do same sex marriages, because they aren't. Yes he's arrogant but that's probably be essential to be a senior political leader. As a PM you want a PM that will stand up to Trump, Putin, Jinping, or von der Leyen.
@@jacquelinechubb4577 I think, Jacquie, he was soft because of his fearsome reputation. If you hammer everyone in argument, how to you get anyone to appear on your show? For instance, Alex Phillips was crushed by him and refuses to debate with him again.
@@brianbell3836 Same has happened with James O’Brien. Regardless of what you think of him, he’s a fierce interviewer and has put people like Farage and Rees-Mogg off from coming back.
It’s also because Alistair is susceptible to flattery. You can see on a few occasions Davis attempting to divide Rory and Alistair by flattering one and dismissing/insulting the other.
From the moment the referendum was announced as a binary "yes" / "no" choice, it was the absolute inevitable answer brexiteers were always going to give. "Brexit was a good idea but it was badly done" was the only answer they could ever really give
"The system didn't want me", "The establishment was against me", Wah Wah Wah. A man who has gone through his whole life never once taking accountability for a single one of his actions.
No , I particularly didn't enjoy hearing Alister jeer at Rory in the closing minutes .. But Rory is well able for it and I appreciated his side of how he saw the rather irritating guest . Bravo Rory .
It's rare you see one of their guests tap dancing like that. Most of the people they have are serious individuals. I don't know how Davies was when he started out in politics, but he seems to me to have been out of his depth in the last decade or so, and making a fool of himself.
The Iraq war, which Campbell and (initially) Rory supported - and which Davis vociferously opposed - caused far more harm than anything Davis has done. I know he comes off badly here, but DD was for years on the right side of many important questions, also including compulsory ID cards, prolonged detention without trial and other civil liberties issues. Sorry to disrupt the series of near-identical comments in this chat.
This interview focused on all the policy differences between David and Alistair/Rory. Compare that to the recent interview with Hillary Clinton that gave her a chance to talk about the things they agreed about: Irish unification, women's rights, etc.
Both his insipid character and profound incompetence really came out well on this podcast. Probably best for him to join Liz in utter shame for their records.
I did enjoy it gentlemen, thank you. After years of disliking David Davis’s politics I warmed to him while listening to the story of his childhood, his upbringing. Also, I admired his apparent cross-party thinking. Would have been more willing to respect his views at that point. However, from the moment the conversation turned to the death penalty, gay marriage, Brexit, I realised he hasn’t changed. He limits his arguments to points that support his beliefs, seems unwilling to adapt. His views on meritocracy appear limited only to further opportunities for those coming from below, they don’t recognise that some from within the ‘establishment’ may also have earned their place.
What really annoys the hell out of me is that wealthy people like him brush Brexit off like it was nothing and it doesn’t matter when ordinary people and people in poverty have been severely hurt by the economic impact of Brexit and to him it’s like nothing changed. It’s not nothing to the children going hungry, or the pensioner with hypothermia or the 30 year old still living with their parents unable to start their own family. We have been severely hurt economically from Brexit, compounded by the cost of living crisis and declining public services. We are hurting, people are dying and it’s like one big joke and was inconsequential to people like him 🤬🤬
The problems you speak of have nothing to do with Brexit or the pandemic the real problem in Britain is the decline that no one speaks of, since we joined the Eu under Heath the economy went into nose dive we had joined a organisation we were in no fit state cope with the lost of manufacturing did more damage , Not to mention cheap coal from EU messed up the coal industry that employed so many men , along came Thatcher that merely switched the economy from manufacturing to a service economy. facing bankruptcy, then the north sea oil revenues came in saving Britain . The failure to establish a serious manufacturing base that produces real wealth is the problem ,until this is rectified expect more of the same regardless of who is in power only fools put the blame on individual political persons
C'mon, this is ridiculous. Brexit was a drop in the ocean compared to the impact of our pandemic response. A needless and harmful act of economic suicide which people still don't want to address.
@@rolandhawken6628 the problems absolutely are Brexit. We lost free trade with our biggest trading partners. The reason manufacturing left Britain is because in a globalised world (I’m going to use today’s figures here) why would a business want to manufacture here when labour costs £10.40 per hour when they could set up in Thailand for example where labour costs £2.05 per hour. This has been a problem going back to thatcher, which is why she shut down manufacturing because it wasn’t profitable and required huge state subsidies and coal was severely on the decline worldwide because oil was on the rise as it is far more energy efficient, though I very much disagree with how thatcher dealt with the entire situation. Now because we left the eu we willing left a £22 trillion market where we had free trade, therefore now because of border checks and tariffs prices have been driven up. Additionally businesses now have to jump through so many hoops because of the red tape that businesses have gone bankrupt, or had to move from Britain to the EU (as it’s more profitable) or they significantly raised prices to compensate for all the above reasons. This has led to decreased trade, meaning now the economy isn’t growing as quickly and also means the government is getting less tax receipts that can then be used to invest in our infrastructure and public services. If you really look at the data, which is all freely available, you will see that this has in fact hurt us significantly
@@Anonuser-s5j Having lived through the EU saga joining in the first place put the British economy into a nose dive I knew over forty people who worked in our coal industry and we had sorted the problem of pollution connected with it . Cheap coal flooding in from EU put thousands of miners out of work they were sacrificed on the alter of EU ,and Thatcher went along with it like they all did I know this to be fact I worked for a company connected with coal stations .Then you have the fact we had the most efficient agriculture system in the world and we were shackled to France that had the worst. Our industry was inefficient esp manufacturing but the unions were totally unreasonable. The labour costs in manufacturing are not the main factor because most man is full automated you are living in the past and do not understand manufacturing . There is no will to build factories because of climate crap so no real wealth can be created in short Britain is finished in the EU or out the EU no difference just a matter of time before total collapse ,and chaos
@@rolandhawken6628 like I said coal was on the decline globally - every nation was moving from coal to oil, which had nothing to do with eu it was just science. Oil was way more efficient, as in you got more for your money, all you need to to do is look at the statistic of coal and oil usage for the time period. As I said before manufacturing was on the decline in ALL western bastion because it make no sense whatsoever for a business to use expensive labour when they can move abroad and get the exact same product for 90% cheaper. This is not me agreeing with that sentiment, it is merely the reality of the situation. This is why you see during that time period western economies were transition from manufacturing and agricultural economies to service based economies. Again this is just a fact, which joining the eu or not would’ve made no difference. The country must move forward and deal with the reality of Britain in the 21st century. Instead of trying to return to a fictional glorious past, we must move forwards and do what is best for Britain now, in 2024, not 1970s Britain. The facts are leaving the EU hurt our economy, and everyday normal people. The manufacturing sector you seem to care about has also been hurt. As an example our steel industry has suffered and is leaving Britain to set up shot in the Netherlands, because industry wants and needs to trade in the EU.
@@UmbertoDavidPanda He is another one that goes on and on about Thatcher. I just don’t get it🤷🏼♂️ Great when Rory pushed back and Davis tried to laugh it off.
DD proved statistically that Brexit wasn't as bad as feared. AC and Rory had no comeback. AC too heavily invested in his Brexit view that he can't accept any economic statistics.
Well done Rory. Davis has a chip on his shoulder the size of the Isle of White. That's why he kept poking with the "Establishment" and referencing "PhDs". Compensating for secretly low self esteem.
I found this conversation interesting and quite the charged atmosphere. Always a joy to hear some vastly opposing views come together and challenge each other's opinions.
That's how the conservatives see Rory, they think he's wet/weak. They see his hesitation and lack of confidence as weakness and a lack of knowledge, against their confidence.
Love the summing up. Rory I was getting as irritated as you were. But yet again what a great duo. You compliment each other. I and others would love to know how you two paired up. An episode for the future?
We’re blessed to have Rory. Right? Thank goodness this man is now irrelevant. Right? Baffled as to how anyone would want to work with someone like this. Right?
As someone who sits outside immediate access to politicians, it is quite difficult to judge whether our UK political players can be as awful as we imagine, based on their avowed policy positions and judgement. This interview lays bare the reality, at least in this case, that David Davis is really this clumsy, arrogant, and full-of-himself as we suspected. Well done Rory Stewart not just for seeing past the bluff and bonhomie (shades of Johnson) and reveal something of the character of the man. How in love he is with himself.
I have a great admiration for Rory, as a journalist his ministerial, and diplomatic experience is fantastic for actually holding ideas to account. A true public servant! Thanks Rory
His body language is classic, hands behind his head, trying to exert power when he was wrong on gay marriage and crossing his arms when he knew he has been called out! He really isn’t academic or principled as he likes to believe.
He's incredibly dim but has clearly worked hard to become incredibly confident. He also gets confused and angry when challenged. He might match Liz Truss in overconfidence/stupidity.
I flicked to thr gay marriage part, watched 3 mins and gir angry. I've had enough of being angry these days, so I switched off. David Davis reminds me of every part of this country's problems. I've had enough of being angry of it.
I've been asking many times on Quora and Reddit for any positives of 14 years of tory government and the only thing anyone came up with was gay marriage.
There are some small things that weren’t awful, and they’re all from those first five years. On their own it was just an uninterrupted chain of incompetence, corruption and cruelty.
David Davis was rude and abrasive towards Rory from the start for absolutely no reason. Kept dismissively referring to Rory as “him”, and constantly calling him “establishment” in a very patronising manner. What an arrogant person.
i like this channel, i am not anti brexit, not a leftie , not woke, but love the content. i do wish rather than the general "brexit is crap" they actually deep dive in what areas as i would be interested. nobody does that seriously. listing areas and trying to find solutions. as Davis did, he listed areas we are now doing better in than the EU, which no one will talk about. a friend of mine runs a packaging company, based around the world, its smalled depo in sittingbourne, its trebled in size, now one of the largest due to deals with china, india, morroco etc due to non EU regulations. There are huge successes we dont study and failures we dont specify.. But id love to really understand those areas with challenges and why they are having difficulty.
I was slightly surprised when a (British) EU Commission person involved in negotiating with Davis told me succinctly "he's thick and obnoxious" when I asked what he's like. Now I see why
This was a hard listen. Never trust a man who smiles too much. His arrogance, downright stupidity and inability to own up to his mistakes were only counterbalanced by Rory’s logical arguments. I have never seen Rory look so pissed off!!!
Very nice to see fundamental disagreements on this show! But without it becoming shouty and unpleasant. I like David Davis even though I disagree with some of his views but I can fully understand his manner will irritate many!
I don't know if we saw the real David Davis, or he just had his guard up the whole time whilst trying to appear at ease. Possibly he just prefers sparring than actual discussion? Sadly at times he displays the poor leadership quality of mistaking confidence for competence, and seems incapable of self-reflection and would rather re-fight battles of the 80s and 90s, rather than consider what is in the here-and-now. And his bickering style of cutting in and talking over others, without having a point to make was tiresome. (and very Johnson-esque, butting in with noise, not words).
Apart from Scotland and central London, Britons voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU. Free movement is a double edged sword. I don't want endless uncontrolled migration from eastern Europe taking British jobs, thanks. It's done, anyway. Quit whining.
What crap - kids are free to move in the EU but maybe yours are too lazy to do a bit of paperwork. I guess they’ve never travelled to the big wide world outside the EU? As for living and working in the EU, so there is more effort involved, that’s life and a fair trade for not being tied to an undemocratic political project that will drive the EU members further to the far right over the next decade.
@@ZZ-ek7mx For 90 days at a time. It's considerably more difficult to work or study, like we did when we were younger. It's not "a bit" of paperwork, it's quite a lot. Compare to what it was 5 years ago: booking a flight. That was it. We've even had to leave educational programmes, Erasmus etc, which were enormously beneficial. The "eastern Europeans" are still here, they applied for their PRs before the deadline, although some are moving back now because even their "shithole" countries are doing better than ours in many ways now. eg: availability of reasonably priced housing, jobs, stable economy.
What an utter plonker Davis is. I often watch Rory’s and Alastair’s interviews with politicians I’m sceptical of, and end up appreciating a more human, reasonable side to them. After watching this, I’m more convinced than I was before of Davis’s lack of depth and judgement. And the frequent, inane laughter is embarrassing
A very immodest man with a lot to be modest about.
I think you mean embossed about
he's an office politician - 17 years at Tate and Lyle says it all
Priests aren't forced to perform marriages. The Roman Catholic Church and Church of England don't perform gay marriages. It is actually still illegal for the Church of England to perform them.
Otherwise there would probably be a schism.
The wokies are trying to change that
Yeah that really bothered me, just a bloke arguing something that is untrue (and he almost certainly knows is untrue), very strange. If his objection was that Marriage should be a religious affair and should be between opposite sexes, I'd still wholly disagree but just say that. Making up some procedural point about forcing religious officers to officiate marriages they disagree with is strange. Then saying the "damage" is done and that's why there's no one against it now, rather than it made society better and produced happy secure same-sex couples (who then form families and purchase property in the classical Tory vision of an ideal property focused democracy).
Rory presses him but gives in when it's clear he will never concede anything, and later correctly points out the actual state of things in the post-interview wrap up.
Ye that really didn’t make sense, no priest is being compelled to perform a gay wedding, they can give a blessing however, that point really made him look silly.
@@user-eq5ub5rs3g I agree but.. There were cases of civil marriage 'doers' losing their jobs by refusing to carry out gay weddings. They were bigoted but it did happen
Well done Rory, you weren't comedically frustrated, you were calling out BS. You were doing the proper thing. I love Alastair, but his, finding it all a laugh because it's his mate, routine, was highly frustrating to watch. Maybe the truest insight to Westminster this podcast has ever given.
Yup, Alistair's laughing because he's a 24k BSer recognising another BSer who's not as good at it as him
Campbell is an odious person. Represents along with David Davies all that is wrong with our political system.
I agree - both Campbell and Davis laughing about the fact that Davis had no idea what do to once it was confirmed we'd be leaving the EU (@32:45) was infuriating. Like, Davis pushed for Brexit and now he find's it funny that he didn't have any plan in place for if we left?!
Pipe down. Surgeons and doctors will sometimes make jokes about horrific situations because if you don't, you will die miserable eventually. Engineers will laugh about their terrible implementations. Its part of being human to find ways to bring humour to very difficult situations. However. I do find David to be more establishment than rory at this point. Its his croney brigade in power for the majority of the last 60 years yet he just blames the new lot for not respecting parliament. Well who did they fucking learn from david?
Love to know who was snorting cocaine in the Westminster toilets. I'm convinced Boris would fail a hair follicle test. And this guy. How else can you explain this insane confidence?
Rory not having it, and good on him, really stands his ground. It's clear Rory has a strong moral compass, which is probably why he felt so uncomfortable in parliament.
Moral compass?? Rory had no problem serving in Iraq as a form of colonial overlord, but then again he was at Eton old chap.
Rory was a terrible politician, purely because he has such strong principles. People like Davis are able to climb the greasy pole because they’re grubby and lack any real integrity.
@@ZZ-ek7mxget over yourself mate.
@@HomemadeBrownies1 you need to get over your fawning to Tories. Rory walks softly but is at heart a Tory. Self centred, selfish and arrogant. His support for the nasties trying to take over the National Trust to remove references to slave owning was gross as his whining about the green belt being untouchable is selfish and self interested.
@@verityviolet Many across the political spectrum see Protecting the green belt as an important policy. The policy is designed to protect arable lands and maintain the natural environment around towns, suburbs, and villages.
It's very rare that I finish an episode of Leading and end up with a lesser opinion of the guest. Political opinion on the matter aside, Davis came across as a stubborn, defensive tool when discussing gay marriage. Good on Rory for challenging him on it.
Yes. I did admire Davis - thought he was a bright, sober politician. Now he seems a dismissive bore. Can't see Rory ageing that way.
His stubborn homophobia on the gay marriage issue was bizarre from a man who claims to follow logic in deciding his political positions. "you've forced these people out of a job as a priest" he says, making priests' feelings more important than gay & bisexuals' human rights. A strange kind of 'logic' indeed
@@oliviaaaaaah1002 Not to mention that the story about priests being forced out for refusing to marry people is a blatant lie. (Some have been forced out for other reasons, obviously.)
I often wonder what the state has to do with what people get up to in their own homes. Why shouldn't folks of the same gender marry? What harm does it do?
Is there so much happiness in the world that we should make an effort to stamp some of it out?
Like with abortion, it's not about harm to the state, it's about the petty joy of interfering in lives.
Rory is just like this tool...a Tory
David Davis appeared arrogant and sloppy - typical old school guy who has such conviction in his over inflated opinion that he doesn’t listen, digest or consider other points of view.
What Davis says about priests being forced to marry gay couples is just factually wrong. The 2013 act that legalised gay marriage included explicit protections so that they wouldn't have that obligation. They even amended the Equality Act as part of it. He says "if you carry out marriages you carry out marriages" but it's just not true
Davis is just plain wrong a lot
He finds facts quite inconvenient, apparently
@@Rory626 Firm believer in logic, except where it disagrees with his opinions
Rory basically said that and he just ignored him
His claim about export volumes and growth RE Brexit were also utter S##te which was frustrating to not be challenged on
This level of arrogance needs to be studied
"When he looks in the mirror he's sees very little to dislike".
I know but Alistair and Rory are the presenters........
Yes within the slime that is Mr A Campbell and Mr R Stewart.
Traitors both of them.
@@MrAoldham😂
Yes, Rory is awfully arrogant.
As a dutch person, maybe Brexit wasn't such a bad idea if it got us farther away from this guy...
(appreciate the podcast guys!)
If only Brexit actually happened in any meaningful way
😂
Haha, what a brilliant answer! I always say things like these about brexit as well. If they always say "the UK and Europe" then maybe it's more factual to stay outside the EU.
Hear, hear...
Not all who voted for Brexit were racists but all our racists voted for Brexit.
God hes so arrogant. His claims on trade are totally specious. His pivot to Taiwan when Rory was speaking about China utterly disingenuous. He was totally unprepared for the european negotiations
I didn't think I could have any less respect for David Davis. Alistair & Rory have just proven that I was profoundly wrong.
Episodes like these would make me angry, but now I'm just relieved that buffoons like Davis are far away from power and we can finally ignore them for a good while.
Yes. He really is a massive clown. “Thick as mince” was how he was described in leaks, so accurate.
Neither of you took uphill campaign in support of Alex Salmond and the sturgeon government 's corruption of the Scottish legal system. Alexandra MacRae.
"Just you and the establishment" He's been in government for over 30 years hasn't he? How is he not the establishment?
It's a way of trying to get out of any intellectual baggage that comes with the political position he holds.
He’s a counter culture hippie radical don’t you know.
Do you also think that Jeremy Corbyn is part of the establishment ?
I'm nit-picking but he's been in Parliament for over 30 years. In government for 10.
@@StraitKnopfler Same difference
Davis confirms two things we already knew: 1/ That none of the campaigners for leaving the EU, including the likes of Cash, Bone and IDS who had been droning on about it for decades, never wasted a single nanosecond working out what leaving the EU would entail, or what the UK's post-brexit relationship should be. And they never did any planning at all. The analogy is of people wanting the ship they are on to leave a safe haven to embark on a voyage without any thought for where they would end up (and Johnson ensured that they did it without a compass and charts). 2/ His definition of brexit's success is that it isn't as catastrophically bad as some are alleged to have predicted.
They never thought they would win as why would people be so stupid - they could not really believe idiot Cameron and remain had fought such a poor arrogant campaign
I found David Davis to be a surprisingly difficult interviewee. He didn't seem to listen, frequently spoke over Rory, and lacked self-awareness. I would suggest not booking him again.
He seemed rather dense and dimwitted. I'd love to know what Barnier thought of him...
@@BjørjaBear I read Barnier's book (an excellent read, by the way). I seem to remember that he liked Davis personally but did not rate him professionally. I could be mis-remembering.
Surprising? He's a Tory and devout Brexiteer. Why on earth would you think he'd have listening skills and self-awareness?
I actually found him rather dull and must have fallen asleep a few times as I don't recall much of what was discussed at the end. For all eyesight issues, Cummings was right - he is as thick as mince.
@@jaidank Thank you for the tip on the book!
This was only made bearable by Rory standing up for common decency and holding this arrogant "gentleman" to some level of truth
Until this interview I liked David Davis even though I didn't like many of his opinions. Man, has that bubble been burst. I had no idea.
I agree with you entirely. His arrogance is off the charts🥵 What a self-righteous bigott!
Perhaps you should watch the video again. This is the first time I’ve actually thought that Rory was arrogant and was twisting the facts,
@@mick947 Which facts did he twist?
Rory comes in on the attack, like a jilted ex-girlfriend, on a Conservative who at least has some modicum of conservative beliefs. Asking silly gotcha's like were you "wrong" about gay marriage🙄 (perhaps he should ask some of his Afghan friends about that as well). Meanwhile, Nick "Luvvie" Clegg (Director, Global Affiars at Meta) gets the kid gloves. Says it all.
So much smugness with so little reason to be.
What the last 15 years or so have shown is that our political masters are really not very clever. From Johnson to Raab to Rees-Mogg to Dorries to Truss to Gove, they're so mediocre.
They led us into the abyss and now we want to get out, they've disappeared.
Exactly and to spout false economic figures as a 'benefit', someone should ask these Tories every time they do this, why are you not using the standard comparison method instead of the misleading 'micro' comparison method that produces your figures.
Full of his own shit and stuck in the 1980's style of self belief. No wonder Rory left the party with knuckle draggers like DD around
The first half of the interview he came across as quite arrogant and smarmy. But, he was much better in the second half. I don’t agree with a lot of what he said but towards the end he was very honest, authentic, and most of all quite impressively, he was ridiculously sharp and quick witted. It was a great interview either way.
‘Despite myself I’m an expert in these bloody things’ ! Such a revealing statement showing that he’s another Liz Truss with no self awareness, arrogantly thinking that all he did was good for the country even as it crumbles before us. So much material for history to play with in his obituary.
An amazing overestimation of his own abilities, like the other David, "Frost".
“I’ve done more European negotiation than anyone else in the world”. Not only is that obviously bullshit, but it’s also indicative of why we had such a bad rep in Europe pre-Brexit. They always had professional negotiators and we had people like Davies.
What an ignorant comment, talk about the tail wagging the dog..;
Most of our negotiations are done by civil servants, not ministers.
I thought this was an open goal waiting for Alistair to say, "That explains why Brexit is so bloody awful."
@@zensibleone2295 Well Campbell will say anything stupid ....
But for the record the difficulty was that Remainers took over Parliament from 2017 to 2019 and blocked everything May tried to do with the EU. Like with majorities of over 250! Starmer was regularly taking instructions from the EU so those people in Parliament like Starmer, Greave, Soubry and Bercow were 5th Columnists damaging our negotiating position. What Johnson was able to salvage in a matter of weeks (or No Deal) showed what could be done with the EU with a strong hand rather than both hands shackled by arcane procedures and (forgive me) traitors who refused to accept the decision made by the UK electorate in 2016.
@zensibleone2295 David's one of his mates so we had no chance
@@1chish That is total nonsense.
The problem is that May was so paranoid about being seen as a Remainer that she insisted on an absurdly hard version of Brexit, one that flatly contradicted all promises made by all of the Leave campaigns. And instead of the prominent voices in Leave correctly saying “No, that’s not what we told the voters we’d do” they all jumped on board and made anything approaching a sensible approach politically impossible. All of which led inevitably to May’s awful deal, and Boris pretending his version was substantially different.
Brexit always was and remains a terrible idea, and the likes of Johnson, Farage and Davies did everything they could to make sure it was as bad as it could possibly be. And far too many leavers are pathetically scrabbling around for arguments to pretend that something other than Brexit being a stupid idea is the cause of it going so badly.
His towering conceit is only matched by his ignorance and total lack of self-awareness. That a man like this can become so successful is as damning an indictment of our political system as any ive ever seen.
Unfortunately, people like this are doing better than they should in many white collar jobs. Particularly successful in the short term, where their massive egos and ability to deflect questions land them the big job. Usually they benefit from leaving quickly because they are, in fact, useless and damaging, and get found out.
I don't think he's been successful. His Brexit project has been a failure and it's arguable that his beloved Thatcher's project is now proven to be a failure too.
@@SuezWSuezW hes not struggling to pay his bills tho is he
@@karlos72 Tory banker?
One thing has been proved over the last fifteen years is that you don't need brains to succeed in British politics. I wonder how many of our politicians have ridden high at PMQs on a tide of cocaine.
Excellent. I’m a retired Anglican priest and long term Labour Party member, and I greatly enjoy this channel. I find it so creative, and admire how you get things to hold together, and how you draw people into the debate. I think you two are a great combination, and you enable insight which is often missing. David Davies is an interesting man doing politics for the right reasons. Whilst I’ll always be Labour, it was a sad day for me when Rory dropped out of the leadership race, and I hope he will one day return to front line politics. Great interview. Thank you.
He lost to Bozo the clown
You've been very charitable to David Davis. Despite his good intentions, his arrogance and lack of knowledge is off the charts.
To think he was negotiating Brexit on behalf of the UK...
David Davis is so unbelievably arrogant for someone who has been wrong about everything.
He went to negotiate with the EU and had zero paperwork.
That's the problem with many of our politicians
@@martinlorman7773 You need a notebook at least.
I'm a big fan of Alastair Campbell but why is he so chummy with him? Horrible Tory
rubbish - right about brexit - compared to the two other traitorous idiots.
What an egotistical, unpleasant man, right up there with David Frum, but not quite at the height of "obnoxiousness" of James Rubin.
Thank you, Rory, for being a voice of compassion, sense, and logic; which you endeavor to inject into the conversation.
This is painful to listen to, and thank god for Rory standing his ground.
Wow he's completely out of touch. How many times did he roar with laughter at his own jokes while Rory and Alastair sat completely silent?
This was the comment I was searching for. I didn't expect him to be such an obnoxious a tool!
It's just an old school arguing (not debating) technique as it's often doing the same as butting in, by dominating the talking space, but it comes off as peevish if you get wound up by laughter.
i was about to write a comment about exactly this.
Yes there was a lot of that.
The fact that he sits back and laughs over the Brexit vote shows his utter lack of seriousness over this affair. A shameful position, given that it's done such damage. He ought to swing for it. A fool, if I ever saw one.
Davis and his like are the reason the UK is in the mess they're in, the blind leading the blind..
Too true … so many tossers like Davies in all walks of life. Shame there isn’t some Davies gene we can start screening for.
Do some research. The UK is not doing worse than the EU
@@richardbrown7437keep living in that bubble little englander.
@@richardbrown7437But the Uk is doing worse as a result of not being in the Eu which is all that matters.
Really struggling with a terrible case of irony poisoning because David Davies has just suggested his reasoning is equivalent to a PhD thesis…
A fascinating character. I can see why Davis didn't become leader, he doesn't fit neatly into any 'box'. Like Rory I would agree with many of his views on the loss of meritocracy, etc but, also agreeing with Rory, his refusal to accept the he's been wrong about anything was very annoying. On Brexit, the idea that we are doing more with Far Eastern economies such as Taiwan because of Brexit is utterly fatuous, there was nothing stopping us as members and there's nothing helping us now.
Errr ... there was something stopping us in our trade policies. It was called the EU, its ownership of ALL trade policy and the fallout from it External Tariff. We traded with non EU countries on EU terms not British terms which are very different. We can now, for example, trade freely with every member of the CPTPP which is the fastest growing group of economies in the world. member states of the EU cannot do that.
@@1chish That's odd because Germany's biggest trading partner is China. The last time I checked Germany was a member of the EU.
@@Smiffy55ukx ... Sigh .... and now we have poor sarcasm ....
Are you really that stupid you think I cannot see what you did there? Let me quote from the Statistiches Bundesamt:
"According to preliminary results, goods worth 254.5 billion euros were traded between Germany and the People's Republic of China in 2023 (exports and imports)"
Note 'IMPORTS are included. In fact Germany ran a nett trade deficit with China to the tune of $145 Bn a year. But in exports which are the key one the top three in 2023 were:
USA: $170.77 billion.
France: $125.8 billion.
Netherlands: $119.13 billion.
FunFact: when the UK was in the EU it ran a nett trading deficit of over £75 Bn a year. Since leaving that deficit has fallen by 30%. So the cost of trading with the EU is less as we increase trade with non EU countries.
Don't try to be clever mate. Just have a factual discussion.
@@1chish "We traded with non EU countries on EU terms not British terms which are very different." with only a few exceptions, such as the nearly utterly useless (to us) CPTPP, we trade today on almost the exact same terms as we did when we were in the EU. The UK has largely just rolled over all the previous agreements. Also, the CPTPP is a laughable thing to bring up because the UK already had bilateral trade deals (again, rolled over) with nearly all the members of the CPTPP. Thus, the OBR calculated that in the long term (over 15 years) the increase in GDP is likely to be: 0.04%. Trade expert David Henig stated that benefits from Britain's accession to the trade bloc impact had been "hugely overhyped", adding that "some companies will benefit, but the effects will be very small"
@@DaveArray Last point first: Henig is Director of the UK Trade Policy Project at the think-tank European Centre for International Political Economy (ECIPE). He works at Utrecht University. So no bias there then ... 😂🤣
How can we trade on the same terms when the decisions are made by OUR elected Government not an unelected bureaucracy in Brussels. You denigrate the trade deals done as 'roll overs' when that is just not true. For example we have trade deals with countries that have no trade deal with the EU (which really only has 4). So explain that?
And you cap your bias by calling the CPTPP " utterly useless". A trading bloc with a combined gross domestic product (GDP) of around £12 trillion. 🤦♂
If CPTPP is so pointless why do 11 of the fastest growing economies belong to it .....
What a thoroughly unpleasant man. He's factually wrong about priests 'having' to conduct gay marriages, which they actually still cannot do, he overinflates his standing in Europe, so poor was he at his job he was 'sidelined' when he produced failure after failure. Yet despite this seems to have arrogance beyond nearly anyone I can see in British politics at the moment. Not sure what he is 'Leading' but he had absolutely no worth in interviewing
He seems at one point to have conflated China with Taiwan. How did this guy get to the position he was in? Arrogant, ill-informed and rude - Rory displayed levels of patience that warranted canonisation.
The level of arrogance spilling out of Davis is outstanding. I’ve rarely seen someone so foolish and so self deluded. Rory absolutely destroyed him.
You probably need to rewatch the video if that's your view. I feel for you, my friend.
The level of arrogance spilling out of Stephen Jones-Williams is outstanding. I’ve rarely seen someone so foolish and so self deluded. steviechat absolutely destroyed him.
@@steviechatimpressed by his ego... Who cares what he says!
What a facile man Davis is
He wasn't destroyed at all, though he was (I think) wrong about churches being forced to do same sex marriages, because they aren't. Yes he's arrogant but that's probably be essential to be a senior political leader. As a PM you want a PM that will stand up to Trump, Putin, Jinping, or von der Leyen.
Davis is a strange man who seems to lack a serious core.
Vague, vacuous, unable to make a coherent point. He led Britain's Brexit deal negotiations...
'He's a lamb, you're a wolf'
Rory: Starts savaging Davis
That's a matter of perspective.
@@JackoJ15 The usual perspective then
did he though
@@goonies4616 A little bit tbf
Davis is disconnected from reality. We imported £100 billion from China and £4 billion from Tiwan
And NL makes the machines TSMC uses...
Davis is an absolute clown. Astonishing how he got such powerful positions in English politics
In English politics, an individual's drive and ambition can still overcome their lack of intellect and incompetence ...
Boorish and arrogantly stuck in the past, it was frustrating to see Alistair let him away with it while Rory battled with a bully.
Yes why was he so soft on him? Very irritating.
@@jacquelinechubb4577 I think, Jacquie, he was soft because of his fearsome reputation. If you hammer everyone in argument, how to you get anyone to appear on your show? For instance, Alex Phillips was crushed by him and refuses to debate with him again.
@@brianbell3836 Same has happened with James O’Brien. Regardless of what you think of him, he’s a fierce interviewer and has put people like Farage and Rees-Mogg off from coming back.
It’s also because Alistair is susceptible to flattery. You can see on a few occasions Davis attempting to divide Rory and Alistair by flattering one and dismissing/insulting the other.
@@tom_123 Davis is slippery. I think, though, R and A were simply playing 'good cop bad cop'.
Whenever I hear "the problem is not Brexit but how it was done" I hear the German "we could have won the war, we were stabbed in the back" argument.
There are parallels.
From the moment the referendum was announced as a binary "yes" / "no" choice, it was the absolute inevitable answer brexiteers were always going to give. "Brexit was a good idea but it was badly done" was the only answer they could ever really give
This man has got to be the most maddening interviewee I’ve ever watched!
He's a spends a long time saying very little.
Spends a long time saying nothing.
this one was hard to get through, David Davis' just unfortunately came across as insufferable for the majority of the talk
Lots of jabs at Rory for being 'establishment' from an MP from 1987, banker, etc...
Im really confused what was so bad. I thought they were taking jabs at each other
25:41 Lmao I have never seen Rory as visibly pissed off as he is here
"The system didn't want me", "The establishment was against me", Wah Wah Wah. A man who has gone through his whole life never once taking accountability for a single one of his actions.
I'd never much thought about David Davis. Now I think much less of him.
No , I particularly didn't enjoy hearing Alister jeer at Rory in the closing minutes .. But Rory is well able for it and I appreciated his side of how he saw the rather irritating guest . Bravo Rory .
What an obnoxious man. At least Rory held him to account.
Yes.
It's rare you see one of their guests tap dancing like that. Most of the people they have are serious individuals.
I don't know how Davies was when he started out in politics, but he seems to me to have been out of his depth in the last decade or so, and making a fool of himself.
Where was Campbell?
@@milsub59 Smirking in the background.
The Iraq war, which Campbell and (initially) Rory supported - and which Davis vociferously opposed - caused far more harm than anything Davis has done. I know he comes off badly here, but DD was for years on the right side of many important questions, also including compulsory ID cards, prolonged detention without trial and other civil liberties issues.
Sorry to disrupt the series of near-identical comments in this chat.
Fair point tbh
This interview focused on all the policy differences between David and Alistair/Rory. Compare that to the recent interview with Hillary Clinton that gave her a chance to talk about the things they agreed about: Irish unification, women's rights, etc.
Both his insipid character and profound incompetence really came out well on this podcast.
Probably best for him to join Liz in utter shame for their records.
I did enjoy it gentlemen, thank you. After years of disliking David Davis’s politics I warmed to him while listening to the story of his childhood, his upbringing. Also, I admired his apparent cross-party thinking. Would have been more willing to respect his views at that point. However, from the moment the conversation turned to the death penalty, gay marriage, Brexit, I realised he hasn’t changed. He limits his arguments to points that support his beliefs, seems unwilling to adapt. His views on meritocracy appear limited only to further opportunities for those coming from below, they don’t recognise that some from within the ‘establishment’ may also have earned their place.
What really annoys the hell out of me is that wealthy people like him brush Brexit off like it was nothing and it doesn’t matter when ordinary people and people in poverty have been severely hurt by the economic impact of Brexit and to him it’s like nothing changed. It’s not nothing to the children going hungry, or the pensioner with hypothermia or the 30 year old still living with their parents unable to start their own family. We have been severely hurt economically from Brexit, compounded by the cost of living crisis and declining public services. We are hurting, people are dying and it’s like one big joke and was inconsequential to people like him 🤬🤬
The problems you speak of have nothing to do with Brexit or the pandemic the real problem in Britain is the decline that no one speaks of, since we joined the Eu under Heath the economy went into nose dive we had joined a organisation we were in no fit state cope with the lost of manufacturing did more damage , Not to mention cheap coal from EU messed up the coal industry that employed so many men , along came Thatcher that merely switched the economy from manufacturing to a service economy. facing bankruptcy, then the north sea oil revenues came in saving Britain . The failure to establish a serious manufacturing base that produces real wealth is the problem ,until this is rectified expect more of the same regardless of who is in power only fools put the blame on individual political persons
C'mon, this is ridiculous. Brexit was a drop in the ocean compared to the impact of our pandemic response. A needless and harmful act of economic suicide which people still don't want to address.
@@rolandhawken6628 the problems absolutely are Brexit. We lost free trade with our biggest trading partners. The reason manufacturing left Britain is because in a globalised world (I’m going to use today’s figures here) why would a business want to manufacture here when labour costs £10.40 per hour when they could set up in Thailand for example where labour costs £2.05 per hour. This has been a problem going back to thatcher, which is why she shut down manufacturing because it wasn’t profitable and required huge state subsidies and coal was severely on the decline worldwide because oil was on the rise as it is far more energy efficient, though I very much disagree with how thatcher dealt with the entire situation. Now because we left the eu we willing left a £22 trillion market where we had free trade, therefore now because of border checks and tariffs prices have been driven up. Additionally businesses now have to jump through so many hoops because of the red tape that businesses have gone bankrupt, or had to move from Britain to the EU (as it’s more profitable) or they significantly raised prices to compensate for all the above reasons. This has led to decreased trade, meaning now the economy isn’t growing as quickly and also means the government is getting less tax receipts that can then be used to invest in our infrastructure and public services. If you really look at the data, which is all freely available, you will see that this has in fact hurt us significantly
@@Anonuser-s5j Having lived through the EU saga joining in the first place put the British economy into a nose dive I knew over forty people who worked in our coal industry and we had sorted the problem of pollution connected with it . Cheap coal flooding in from EU put thousands of miners out of work they were sacrificed on the alter of EU ,and Thatcher went along with it like they all did I know this to be fact I worked for a company connected with coal stations .Then you have the fact we had the most efficient agriculture system in the world and we were shackled to France that had the worst. Our industry was inefficient esp manufacturing but the unions were totally unreasonable. The labour costs in manufacturing are not the main factor because most man is full automated you are living in the past and do not understand manufacturing . There is no will to build factories because of climate crap so no real wealth can be created in short Britain is finished in the EU or out the EU no difference just a matter of time before total collapse ,and chaos
@@rolandhawken6628 like I said coal was on the decline globally - every nation was moving from coal to oil, which had nothing to do with eu it was just science. Oil was way more efficient, as in you got more for your money, all you need to to do is look at the statistic of coal and oil usage for the time period. As I said before manufacturing was on the decline in ALL western bastion because it make no sense whatsoever for a business to use expensive labour when they can move abroad and get the exact same product for 90% cheaper. This is not me agreeing with that sentiment, it is merely the reality of the situation. This is why you see during that time period western economies were transition from manufacturing and agricultural economies to service based economies. Again this is just a fact, which joining the eu or not would’ve made no difference. The country must move forward and deal with the reality of Britain in the 21st century. Instead of trying to return to a fictional glorious past, we must move forwards and do what is best for Britain now, in 2024, not 1970s Britain. The facts are leaving the EU hurt our economy, and everyday normal people. The manufacturing sector you seem to care about has also been hurt. As an example our steel industry has suffered and is leaving Britain to set up shot in the Netherlands, because industry wants and needs to trade in the EU.
What a confusing Tory. Not really sure what his politics are TBH. I think he is an MP more for status rather than making a difference.
Imagine being one of the people who voted for him.
@@UmbertoDavidPanda
He is another one that goes on and on about Thatcher. I just don’t get it🤷🏼♂️ Great when Rory pushed back and Davis tried to laugh it off.
I’m so happy Rory that you could find no common ground
David Davis = windbag. Hands down to Rory for calling him out. Alastair - strong as always on Brexit.
AC wasn't strong at all and DD didn't take Rory seriously
DD proved statistically that Brexit wasn't as bad as feared. AC and Rory had no comeback. AC too heavily invested in his Brexit view that he can't accept any economic statistics.
Great Pod , but my god what an arrogant man David Davis is , all bad Tory things wrapped up in one human
Well he doesn't appear to be obviously racist so there is that*. Otherwise I agree.
* I could be wrong.
Well done Rory. Davis has a chip on his shoulder the size of the Isle of White. That's why he kept poking with the "Establishment" and referencing "PhDs". Compensating for secretly low self esteem.
what a fantastic insight into the psychology of man and his level of self-esteem - talk about PhDs...
I found this conversation interesting and quite the charged atmosphere. Always a joy to hear some vastly opposing views come together and challenge each other's opinions.
Can't help but noticing David looking down and patronising towards Rory
Heard and saw it. I don't understand why personally. Rory took it well
the ‘do you own a computer’ around 40:30 … so patronising and insufferable. he was awful!
That's how the conservatives see Rory, they think he's wet/weak. They see his hesitation and lack of confidence as weakness and a lack of knowledge, against their confidence.
Arrogance, haughtiness, impatience for detail and limited intellect. David Davies is the ultimate personification of the Tory Brexiter.
It's amazing how you describe competence, experience, and firm views.
@@steviechatyou're the ultimate fanboy!
@@willdogzhitzzz if you say so
Well I think it’s arrogant of you to assume that any one who voted Leave is stupid. We all had our own reasons first voting just as you did.
@@1ThedairyAnyone who did vote leave was and is stupid
Love the summing up. Rory I was getting as irritated as you were. But yet again what a great duo. You compliment each other.
I and others would love to know how you two paired up.
An episode for the future?
Complement
We’re blessed to have Rory. Right? Thank goodness this man is now irrelevant. Right? Baffled as to how anyone would want to work with someone like this. Right?
Thanks for doing the interview David, you showed your true colours. ...you probably think that's a compliment.
As someone who sits outside immediate access to politicians, it is quite difficult to judge whether our UK political players can be as awful as we imagine, based on their avowed policy positions and judgement. This interview lays bare the reality, at least in this case, that David Davis is really this clumsy, arrogant, and full-of-himself as we suspected. Well done Rory Stewart not just for seeing past the bluff and bonhomie (shades of Johnson) and reveal something of the character of the man. How in love he is with himself.
17 minutes in and the chip on his shoulder is huge.
The passive aggressive comments to Rory are so ironic and revealing.
He's afraid of Rory, Rory is far more intelligent and doesn't suffer Davis's disingenuous bs and that makes Davis very uncomfortable.
I have a great admiration for Rory, as a journalist his ministerial, and diplomatic experience is fantastic for actually holding ideas to account. A true public servant! Thanks Rory
Prime Minister David Brent.
That nails it!
This is the genius that showed up to the EU meetings with no documents and just his intellect.
What a shame he didn't listen more to his grandfather.
Was that Steve
This man represents the opposite of meritocracy. Absolutely has no idea what he's talking about.
Typical Tory, vague on everything with zero detail on anything.
Same with all politicians including Rory
You can't support Meritocracy and be a Royalist
His body language is classic, hands behind his head, trying to exert power when he was wrong on gay marriage and crossing his arms when he knew he has been called out! He really isn’t academic or principled as he likes to believe.
He's incredibly dim but has clearly worked hard to become incredibly confident. He also gets confused and angry when challenged. He might match Liz Truss in overconfidence/stupidity.
I like the interviews when Rory goes sqeaky
I flicked to thr gay marriage part, watched 3 mins and gir angry. I've had enough of being angry these days, so I switched off. David Davis reminds me of every part of this country's problems. I've had enough of being angry of it.
Sounds like you're emotionally unstable, mate.
@@shiptoast4465 you were just moaning about people being closed minded to opposing views and here you are doing exactly the same. Hypocrite.
Speaking the truth a majority of Brits agree with. Triggering the out of touch listeners of this podcast. Lovely stuff. Well done, sir.
Please don’t speak for the British People. You don’t have the right.
He doesn’t speak for the British people fortunately.
I've been asking many times on Quora and Reddit for any positives of 14 years of tory government and the only thing anyone came up with was gay marriage.
Which I'm pretty sure was passed mostly due to the LD coalition?
@@Brokout Yeah Cameron had to whip & still had rebels needed labour & libdems to get it across the line
@@Brokout More Conservatives voted against 134 vs for 126.
There are some small things that weren’t awful, and they’re all from those first five years. On their own it was just an uninterrupted chain of incompetence, corruption and cruelty.
@@awesomeocelot5379 I'm going to repost this in the main comment section.
217 Labour MPs supported gay marriage, for people's interest.
The phrase 'thick as a brick' always springs to mind when David Davis comes into any situation.
You’re being too kind. He is truly appalling
Anyone who can be out-thought by David Cameron can't be that bright.
Good on Rory for actually challenging him instead of leaning back and letting him prattle on like Alastair did.
You guys have had some wonderful guests so I won't complain about the occasional mistake. Keep going you are "usually" right.
David Davis was rude and abrasive towards Rory from the start for absolutely no reason. Kept dismissively referring to Rory as “him”, and constantly calling him “establishment” in a very patronising manner. What an arrogant person.
His scoffing by laughing at the matters put before him is his way of absolving himself. Horrid
Probably drunk
Much as I love your channel guys, I just can’t watch this one. David Davis is not good for my blood pressure!
DD comes across as an arrogant and unlikable man.
So do you.
@@shiptoast4465 I disagree
@@brianbell3836 I disagree with your disagreement
@@shiptoast4465 So, we finally agree.
@@shiptoast4465 🤡
Most of our trade comes from China not Taiwan. This guy swrioisly doesn't know what he's talking about but multiple times called himself an expert
Alistair's lack of empathy about Rory's obvious distaste for classism and grouping his thinking and values with people he despises is cringe.
It really is.
Please continue to interview current and former politicians. It's so so revealing, especially when they are relaxed and not in full robo-whipped mode.
Five years of experience as Europe Minister doesn’t mean anything if you clearly have no understanding of anything that happens.
i like this channel, i am not anti brexit, not a leftie , not woke, but love the content. i do wish rather than the general "brexit is crap" they actually deep dive in what areas as i would be interested. nobody does that seriously. listing areas and trying to find solutions. as Davis did, he listed areas we are now doing better in than the EU, which no one will talk about. a friend of mine runs a packaging company, based around the world, its smalled depo in sittingbourne, its trebled in size, now one of the largest due to deals with china, india, morroco etc due to non EU regulations. There are huge successes we dont study and failures we dont specify.. But id love to really understand those areas with challenges and why they are having difficulty.
I was slightly surprised when a (British) EU Commission person involved in negotiating with Davis told me succinctly "he's thick and obnoxious" when I asked what he's like. Now I see why
My god David Davis is absolutely unsufferable. Clearly rude to Rory throughout
Given what he helped do to this country and people, I do not think he deserves to be so happy.
He didn't appear to be happy.
38:43 never seen anyone been more David Brent
This was a hard listen. Never trust a man who smiles too much. His arrogance, downright stupidity and inability to own up to his mistakes were only counterbalanced by Rory’s logical arguments. I have never seen Rory look so pissed off!!!
Yes. Stewart obviously resents the kind of intellectual dishonesty as exhibited here.
Very nice to see fundamental disagreements on this show! But without it becoming shouty and unpleasant. I like David Davis even though I disagree with some of his views but I can fully understand his manner will irritate many!
David Davis is abit of a tosser isn't he? Well done Rory
Think it’s fair to say David doesn’t like Rory 😂
What an absolute fanny!
But, that's a total insult to fannys
I don't know if we saw the real David Davis, or he just had his guard up the whole time whilst trying to appear at ease. Possibly he just prefers sparring than actual discussion?
Sadly at times he displays the poor leadership quality of mistaking confidence for competence, and seems incapable of self-reflection and would rather re-fight battles of the 80s and 90s, rather than consider what is in the here-and-now.
And his bickering style of cutting in and talking over others, without having a point to make was tiresome. (and very Johnson-esque, butting in with noise, not words).
Good god, if he was chocolate he would eat himself. Utterly appalling character
He laughs so heartily while recounting how he took free movement away from our kids.
Get a grip
Apart from Scotland and central London, Britons voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU. Free movement is a double edged sword. I don't want endless uncontrolled migration from eastern Europe taking British jobs, thanks. It's done, anyway. Quit whining.
What crap - kids are free to move in the EU but maybe yours are too lazy to do a bit of paperwork. I guess they’ve never travelled to the big wide world outside the EU? As for living and working in the EU, so there is more effort involved, that’s life and a fair trade for not being tied to an undemocratic political project that will drive the EU members further to the far right over the next decade.
@@shiptoast4465 Instead, we have endless uncontrolled migration from Africa and South Asia. Brilliant.
@@ZZ-ek7mx For 90 days at a time. It's considerably more difficult to work or study, like we did when we were younger. It's not "a bit" of paperwork, it's quite a lot. Compare to what it was 5 years ago: booking a flight. That was it.
We've even had to leave educational programmes, Erasmus etc, which were enormously beneficial.
The "eastern Europeans" are still here, they applied for their PRs before the deadline, although some are moving back now because even their "shithole" countries are doing better than ours in many ways now. eg: availability of reasonably priced housing, jobs, stable economy.
Horrific this man is just horrific
Campbell? Yes sexed up dossier b@stard.
How insightful and tolerant.
@SuperHashie Agreed, Campbell is horrendous.
What an utter plonker Davis is. I often watch Rory’s and Alastair’s interviews with politicians I’m sceptical of, and end up appreciating a more human, reasonable side to them. After watching this, I’m more convinced than I was before of Davis’s lack of depth and judgement. And the frequent, inane laughter is embarrassing