Very well said! Thank you for putting this out there. I couldn't agree more. After 6 weeks having my 16-year-old formerly buggy driving standardbred mare (who had been purchased from a kill pen). I hired a trainer. I felt I needed a professional. My horse could be ridden but didn't seem to understand what I was asking from her all the time. The trainer yanked on my horses face at least 3 times. It was painful to watch! The trainer did this when my horse " stepped into her space" or she wanted her to back up.. My horse became tighter, less focused on the trainer and more high headed each time. After the 3rd time, I said "she knows how to back up, she does it all the time coming in and out of gates. Can't I just say backup?" The trainer responded with "You can, but if you're on a trail ride what if someone else tells their horse to back up?" I was not so articulate as you explain in this video. I did get my point across after watching my horse stare at me and move towards me as if to say "why?", or maybe.."help". I had to stop it and offer some kind of reassurance to my horse. The training session set us back. We had spent hours in sub zero temperatures getting comfortable with each other. She had been approaching me , following me into the barn, allowing me to touch her face, forelock, ears, etc.. I had become a place of comfort for her. The other horses in the herd were still pushing her around.. Post 1 training session, my mare was very distrustful and flinchy when I tried to touch her face. It took about a week to get back to where we had been. I truly felt that I had betrayed her trust in bringing this individual to her. Your comparison to the halter/handshake is impactful and memorable. The halter and lead rope as an extension of us is a perfect way to describe what it is. I LOVE the reference to them "honoring" us with consent to halter them!
I've pinned your comment as I think it's a great story that really articulates the results from this method. I'm sorry you had to go through it but it'll all work out. Horses get past things quickly if it's a one time thing and they understand when a person is making a solid effort to make things safe and good. That week of work will make things that much stronger in the end.
When Graeme says it's abuse and there is a better way, you can believe it. Graeme always amazes me with how kind and patient he is with his herd. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you, Graeme, for educating yet again. I can't count the number of times I've seen the casual use of this snapping motion in videos, making it seem normal and harmless. I hope your video spreads wide and far.
oh wow, good for you for speaking up! I agree, whether it's in person or online, I think people need to speak up if possible. I definitely agree on the keeping calm and heart centred part too
I'm sad that this type of video needs to be put out there but grateful for you to do it. What a terrible way to treat your best friend! That is most definitely abuse. I can't imagine how much this sets back that level of trust between horse and rider.
VERY Good Advice-Thank You!!! Some people just don’t realize how Sensitive a horse’s head-IS!!! With ANY Living Being-It’s an Automatic First Reaction to Move AWAY from-PAIN... It Doesn’t Mean-to be Aggressive, Disobedient Or Anything Else... Other Than What It-IS...Confused AND Hurt. Granted-Spontaneous Accidents Happen... Still-Speaking On An Every Day Level... Being-Thoughtless and Inconsiderate to ANY Horse... IS-Being...A Truly BAD-Horse Person. Your Horse-IS... Your-Partner AND Friend... He Or She SHOULD Be Treated-As Such. Always. 😇
This is exactly what I am being taught to do when a horse tries to ‘lead me’ to the arena, to back them up, or fix a behavior. I bought my first horse last august and it’s just too much to spill here but he is currently at a trainer 4hrs away. Before he left he would greet me, follow me, back up, side pass, bend side to side. I went yesterday to see him and the trainer said he knew nothing and bucks all the time. Crow hops at the tie block, and I watched him interact with the trainer- eyes bugging out of his face, completely tucked into himself the whole time. But bc I feel I have no other options he is staying another month. He didn’t seem to know who I was. He was mentally checked out. I spent 2.5hrs loving on him, taking him on a walk and by the end his eyes were soft again but his mind was still somewhere else 😭💔 I’m new to horses, took me 35 yrs for the little 3yr old girl who fell in love with them to finally buy one. He’s a young mustang, needs people who know but unfortunately I feel I’m in a corner. His feet were so perfect when I left him there, 4wks later I’m being told he needs shoes on all four?? And I’ve seen your video on horse shoes… 🥺 I’m getting to the point of not affording these trainers but not having my own space to keep him and feeling stuck. No one seems to be on the same page with what I’m trying to do with him, except you. Being greener than my horse it’s hard to manage. I bought him thinking the horse world was full of people like me who want the relationship, but everything is a job and an expectation. If I could send my baby to you I would!! Maybe like summer camp for the family lol 😄 Sadly, I did not even recognize his demeanor. When my young kids hugged him to say goodbye, he closed his eyes for the really long hugs. It’s just very sad. I can’t bring him back until he’s ‘safe for me to ride’ The barn he was at when I first got him, I can bring him back to but no trainers. I lack confidence and ‘he has my number..?’ So I’m left with just forever doing groundwork…never riding. You could private message me somehow, I’d love more insight. Maybe you know of someone in my area that thinks like you and I, and has your knowledge and approach. I need someone who can do the doing and then teach me. Thank you for what your providing for horses and their owners🩵
For yourself and your horse, please rescue the horse from this trainer 😳🙏😢 This is a horse being traumatized by a horrible, abusive trainer! You WILL find someone who can help you, even if it’s someone who helps YOU remotely. There are lots of qualified, horse-centered trainers who give online consultations and lessons from a distance, if you cannot find someone closer. You CAN do this. The horse - and you - deserve better!
I'm in agreement with Kathy, I would remove my horse from that situation and demand my money back if possible. Until you do that, I'm not sure what I'd suggest for you. First, get your horse back and then assess where it's at. You're in the corner you put yourself in, so you have the full ability to get yourself back out :) Once you start walking the good path, you'll be so much more empowered for it.
I really do feel for your difficult situation. A young Mustang would be a lot of work for someone new to horses as you mentioned you are and I mean that not to disrespect you in any way, I know I would also struggle immensely. You clearly love your horse and want the best for him which is the foundation of a good partnership that can be built upon. I do hope that you can take your horse out of this situation and find someone genuine and empathic that will be able to work with your horse and help you and your horse towards a lasting deep partnership together.
@@odileflint7082 thank you. Yes, I knew he would require lots of training and love but thought I had people around me to go on the journey with him. He has taught me a lot and we love doing ground work /games together but I need a solid hands-on trainer to ride him through the learning bc I’m not equipped to. I am in the process of getting him back and will spend the next few months regaining our relationship while I will keep searching for the right person help🩵
Great teaching once again ! You are so so good at communicating your wisdom. I use your methods every single day I am with them . Annie and Bear are the same age . He will be 2 June 11. It has been so fun watching as you raise her to be such a gentle , happy Horse . And she is beautiful 💞 No snapping ever ! Thank you 💞 Laura 💞 Bear 💞 Willow
🤗🐴🌟 I have NEVER and I would NEVER do that. 🌟Good, Graeme, that YOU demonstrated/explained an incorrect training method. YES, detrimental 🐴 mentally & physically.
Wow. This was so well articulated. Seeing the clip of Linda actually made my heart hurt. Hearing you say the halter is an extension of you was something I had never even really thought of. I wish you could see the notebook that I have where I write down the things you teach. I have to pause your videos all the time so I can write down your wisdom. Thank you for how honest you always are. And Annie is SUCH a good girl and she is looking so beautiful.
@@StableHorseTrainingOh gosh, all the credit for any book, kind sir- would go to you. You should consider writing one!!!! The things you teach are things I want engrained in my braing forever, and I am sure many of the others here feel the same way. Graeme- you are always very humble- but I will butter you up for all of eternity just so you know how amazing you truly are. I haven't ridden since I was a young girl. I wish I had followed my heart back then and stuck with it, but we all know how life can go. Now, im in my late 30's, dealing with this crappy Lyme disease- but the light at the end of the tunnel for me is going back to school and I hope I get the chance to share with my classmates the amazing things I have learned from you. (I will also certainly tell them how to find you online).
I've thought about it but have never really been sure of what I'd write about or how I'd put it together. Maybe one day. Thank you for the compliments, that's very kind and generous of you to say. That's great that you're coming through it all and off to school soon. I'm quite sure it will all go very well!
Thank you so much for sharing that characterization of the halter, especially #3. While I've never pulled down on the lead, you've given me a light bulb moment - the halter as an extension of me. Only love and kindness should go through the rope, and the halter should be a hug! 💞🦄💞
I'm SOOO glad that you do these videos. If you can bring awareness and change the minds and hearts of others, that's huge for these beautiful beings! Seeing the clip of that video immediately made my ears so hot. People like that are animal abusers and I'd strongly argue that with anyone. I could never in my life see that happening and not say something. I know firsthand horses can sometimes be a handful. Abuse is never the answer. Growing up, I had family members who were horribly mean to most animals, especially their horses. I remember getting belted so bad because I couldn't contain my anger towards someone, and I yelled at them to just stop! Once I grew up and had a choice, I've never had anything to do with any of them. I'm so passionate about this subject.
Thank you! I have seen multiple equestrians on UA-cam do this exact method and while I am not an equestrian and may never have a horse due to my living situation in a city that does not accommodate a horse's needs for herd life, foraging, and space, I have always thought "this looks mean" whenever I would watch a video and see them snap a lead rope down the horse's head especially when it comes to younglings. I don't get the sense of treating a horse or another animal with such an archaic, detrimental technique that can lead to abuse and at this point, I agree that it needs to be discarded into the garbage bin. Anyway, Annie is adorable especially with that gorgeous mane.
Yes, there are some very well "loved" horse trainers on UA-cam that use this technique all the time and justify it as if they are doing the very best they can for the horse. They're not. It's mean and quite literally kindergarten level of horsemanship, if we'd even call it that.
I had no idea! No one has told me this before and I'm afraid I have done it! My gelding is quite pushy and often walks ahead of me to cut me off to eat grass while I'm leading him. Thank you for all you teach!!!
Great lesson. I learned a lot. I haven't had the honor to spend much time with horses, but I love them nonetheless. I'm no fan of people who are cruel to animals, and I never would have known that a halter could be such a tool of cruelty if used improperly.
This is such a healthy way to look at horse training and just interaction with horses in general. Thanks for sharing such an important message, Graeme.
Thank you for educating people in such a clear and sensible way - not only telling them what to do or not to do but WHY. Annie is a perfect example of your gentle, consistent, and fair methods - a wild and scared horse is now calm and totally trusting in you to keep her safe.
That was good information. My philosophy is that gentle training makes a gentle horse. Snatching on a lead rope is not gentle training, neither is jerking on bridle reins. Both of them cause pain response of throwing the head up as a reaction to pain. I wish more people would watch you. You’re an amazing horse trainer. God Bless you.
This is so moving. Everything we attach to a horse should be with the understanding that it is an extension of ourselves and our relationship with them. You articulated this very well and it is with great hope that more people involved with all aspects of horse care really take this to heart.
🙏❤️ I do not understand how anyone could not be horrified by hurting a horse with these way-too-common practices. 😢 Unless a life is literally in immediate danger (which is extremely rare), then I can’t believe people still do this. Yet ofc this is how I was taught.
I literally got this inspiration from a person that sent me to a UA-cam channel with extremely high praises for the channel owner that is reasonably popular right now and this is his go to move quite often. I can't stand watching the guy and what he does but people love it. They also love horses and are trusting his framing and techniques. The end justifies the means kind of story line is his thing. People eat that stuff up especially when presented as a success in the end. Lack of experience and understanding has the general public having no idea what has been done and why it's so bad or how there are far superior methods... Anyways, hopefully I can bring a bit of awareness to the technique and the objective observations and understandings we can come to for it.
@@StableHorseTraining I don't know much about horses but I would watch a lot of videos by one particular trainer who was always working with 'problem' horses and always shaking the rope at them. Recently I watched Jesse Drent working with a 'problem' horse. It's amazing how Jesse was able to accomplish a lot of the same things that this other 'trainer' does without being a bully.
Hi Graeme, I think you didn't see it but Annie ate something at the very end of the video... Anyway, your presentation makes a lot of sense. You are so talented in feeling what a horse feels. You have a lot of empathy for them👍The problem is people doing the other ways, do it because they were told that way and aren't even aware they are causing pain. Then they are surprised to get the opposite result e. g. head up repeating their action causing more pain. I tell you I have seen this so many times and must admit very humbly, to have done it myself, maybe (not sure, among the many things I did wrong by pure ignorance) ... 😳 Just thinking of the many times I saw a horse lift his head, while handled with a halter on, and surely with a bridle on causing pain in the mouth! I saw people struggling to get a horse lower his head and get the opposite result! Thank you for making people aware of their weakness in that sense.
Yes, it was a leaf :) Thanks! Yes, empathy is a good word here for sure but there are so many people that have commented (let alone all the ones that haven't) that can see clearly how unkind it looks. I understand there are a pile of trainers using it and teaching it because they were probably taught it and use it, and so on and so forth. That said, critical thinking needs to take place at some point along the line here...
@@StableHorseTraining yes, 👍each action depends on how people were trained and then along the years of getting experience, their own judgement and common sense should prevail on what is kind or unkind to a horse I think. When I see how horses are handled or abused in film sometimes... One wonders whether it is real or special effects... For simple riders the unkind starts with the bit and how they pull on the reins for some of them.
Omg yes j 100% agree. I was just thinking about this topic the other day. I’ve taught my horse to back up like 4 different ways, all starting with liberty and then adding a touch cue (either a touch to the neck or a light neck rope cue) as I’m doing the liberty cue and with my body position (as well as a voice cue) so the horse learns they mean the same thing. There is straight up no reason to use the “Clinton Anderson” backing up technique and when I see any horse trainer use it I honestly just think they don’t know what they are doing at all…like all it does is teach a horse to be head shy and be afraid of your touch on the head and face and for them to fling their head up on you. I can’t think of a worse method then a clip under the halter chin and using it against them. I will always advocate for 100% Bitless riding and liberty training for communication.. as well as no snaps on halters. Btw good video, more people need to stop stupid techniques that hurt the horse and their relationship with their horse. I also gentle and train mustangs, the last thing they need is bad training techniques.
Thanks so much for making this video. I've seen so many videos on UA-cam where horse 'trainers' do this in a mistaken effort to get their point accross you often hear them say things like they are 'showing them who is boss' where I really suspect it's another case of ego driven behavior and dominance that's magnified even further when they believe they have an online following. Thank you for educating people as it's easy to forget there are many that watch horse videos on UA-cam that have little or no experience of horses that may incorrectly assume that those 'trainers' were demonstrating horsemanship as opposed to what it really is - abuse and bullying.
My pleasure. It's true, many people see it as a horse deserving and I've seen a particular trainer being "sorry" to have to be so rough and a pile of people discouraging him from even saying sorry as they feel it was totally justified and was a good part in sorting that horse out.
Thank you for this post. I am a confirmed believer in kinder gentler training, for all animals. Animals think, feel, need and want as well as are fully aware of the circumstances. A horse could be in charge of a situation at any moment.
You are totally right, when trainers say the wipe is an extension of your hands to rub and make the horse feel good. The rope and halter are also an extension of your hand, and the tugging of the rope would be as if you use your hands to hit and cause pain to the horse. I'm training my first mustang right now. I'm not a professional trainer and she is almost ready to go under saddle and I can't think of any reason why I would need to yank on my horse's halter. if a trainer has to resort to pain that's not a good trainer.
Gentle, patient, calm communication. The animal that trusts their handler will not harm them is far more responsive to training and care. Most of the time I just use a lead rope doubled up and laid over their neck, not tied or clipped, no halter. The horses walk with me on the cue of the rope. Gentle pressure and release and they get where we are going.
Appreciate you. I've watched MANY horse channels and really felt bad whenever seeing people jerk on the halter. I felt like there had to be a better way
I have only used that method twice. And it was for 1 reason only. When nothing I was doing was working to gather the horses attention when they were in fight or flight mode and entering into a dangerous space for them and me. It was used to say "hey, snap out of it". Immediately after doing it I released them from the lead line giving them the ability to go through their reaction before attempting to work with them again. Any time I see someone using this method for any other readers it hurts my heart. I felt terrible after having to do that. But thankfully, I feel like the horses understood as I was able to approach them at liberty immediately after their reactions were over.
Talking about the King I'm appalled by the situation of the Kings Guards in White Hall who tolerate such a mass tourism harrassing their horses for a selfie. It should be forbidden to approach them within a few meters. They have to stand still for hours chewing their bits, touched by hundreds hands a day..
Thank you for pointing this out. I've seen this done and I never thought it was right to do. It's always good to learn these things, so we know it's something we don't do even if others think it's right. It was always my gut feeling it was wrong to do.
I agree. I have a lot of experience with mammals and mostly human. How would we like being haltered and jerked on at the head and neck. I just have always thought about horses, domestically, versus in the wild. There’s nothing in the wild, that duplicates, a halter, bit bridle lead rope…. If I’m ever blessed enough to have a horse, then it will be a liberty relationship. And yes, the halter and lead rope are exactly the element of the relationship is being used. It should be a kind, gentle and patient use.
I think people don't care about a horses feelings. They just say it's just a horse whenever they mistreat it, they don't seem to understand. The cognitive dissonance is strong with them.
First job I ever had with horses I was taught to do that, never did cus I thought it was just mean, the place I worked at that taught me it also used stud chains so the horses either had them on the nose or gums so that snapping hurt them alot! not sure why they had them but this barn was always in such a rush so that could be that it got work done faster, hurting horse made them back up fast. My boos even knew she was hurting them but she wanted work done fast! not sure why we had to get everything done so fast as we had 12 hours to get all our work done it was so stressful for me cus we where rushed so much we got 10 hours of work done in 6 some people have no patience and days when the barn had shows was the worst. I also remember that Linda parelli video what makes it all the more worse was the horse is blind in one eye so he can't see well so he was probably really really confused.
Really good content, a great precise and easy to follow video on why this is a bad thing. You always impress me with your teachings. Question, do you think this is why some horses don’t like the top of their head touched or are not happy being haltered because of pain in the past caused by a human doing this?
I was taught by a couple people to yank on the lead rope hard to get the horse off the grass as I was leading it. Seemed so wrong. What do you do if they won't get off the grass? Wouldn't it be better to use the tail of the lead rope (gently swinging it) from behind to get them moving?
I wouldn't treat it a lot different than if I was going to try to get a horse to cross a waterway. Their head being up isn't a priority to me, it's having the feet move with mine. As mentioned, the lead and halter can be used to "draw" a horse, so I would pull and not give up. Many people have so little patience that they try something and seconds later they are losing it with whips, yanking and yelling. It's so weird. I'd practice and practice with that horse to get it to a point where I could use a vocal command like "up" and I'd have their head to me. Reward with gratefulness and kindness and they'll go anywhere you go in time. A person that is yanking is one that is yelling. If that has to happen more than once, then it's the human that isn't growing, not the horse's problem at that point. Bad teacher of the horse.
What is the best solution for a horse that pins her ears, bits, and kicks when working around them? She’s perfect once your able to groom her and get her tacked up.
That reminds me of how the police feel once they get handcuffs on a criminal. They behave so much better once they know they're fully caught. If I were to observe what you're describing, I'd say that horse utterly hates the person touching them. I would encourage that person to somehow convince that horse to like them. This may not be a possibility if the horse is in pain (which I 100% expect based on that behavior) and I would take a look at the horse's feeding schedule, feet, back and legs.
This sounds like an intense pain/rage response. No horse behaves in this way for no reason. And like Graeme said, once tacked up most horses will know its no use trying to communicate their feelings about it… at that point their nervous system goes into “I need to cope with this” mode 😢
The lady I purchased her from bought her as a 2 year old from an auction with no details on her. She is currently 6 years old and absolutely hates being worked around. She has major stall aggression as well so we take her into the ally way but still acts up a lot.
Just imagine the next time she "acts up" that she's being forced to yell at you "please stop! for the love of god and everything good, please stop doing that! I'm scared and need reassurance and care!". Perhaps that will change your mind a little bit about what she's feeling after being locked up in her jail cell and then tied up in cross ties to do the bidding of her human master. Children hold in trauma for a very very long time, I imagine you're dealing with a bit of that plus whatever has been put into her since then. This interview might be good for you if you have the time for it: ua-cam.com/video/CPxwq46Xycg/v-deo.html
Very well said! Thank you for putting this out there. I couldn't agree more.
After 6 weeks having my 16-year-old formerly buggy driving standardbred mare (who had been purchased from a kill pen). I hired a trainer. I felt I needed a professional. My horse could be ridden but didn't seem to understand what I was asking from her all the time.
The trainer yanked on my horses face at least 3 times. It was painful to watch! The trainer did this when my horse " stepped into her space" or she wanted her to back up.. My horse became tighter, less focused on the trainer and more high headed each time. After the 3rd time, I said "she knows how to back up, she does it all the time coming in and out of gates. Can't I just say backup?" The trainer responded with "You can, but if you're on a trail ride what if someone else tells their horse to back up?"
I was not so articulate as you explain in this video. I did get my point across after watching my horse stare at me and move towards me as if to say "why?", or maybe.."help". I had to stop it and offer some kind of reassurance to my horse.
The training session set us back. We had spent hours in sub zero temperatures getting comfortable with each other. She had been approaching me , following me into the barn, allowing me to touch her face, forelock, ears, etc.. I had become a place of comfort for her. The other horses in the herd were still pushing her around.. Post 1 training session, my mare was very distrustful and flinchy when I tried to touch her face. It took about a week to get back to where we had been. I truly felt that I had betrayed her trust in bringing this individual to her.
Your comparison to the halter/handshake is impactful and memorable. The halter and lead rope as an extension of us is a perfect way to describe what it is. I LOVE the reference to them "honoring" us with consent to halter them!
You made a great point
I've pinned your comment as I think it's a great story that really articulates the results from this method. I'm sorry you had to go through it but it'll all work out. Horses get past things quickly if it's a one time thing and they understand when a person is making a solid effort to make things safe and good. That week of work will make things that much stronger in the end.
👍
Praying for people to get educated on how to train and treat their horses with out harming them mentally and physically 🙏❤
So good. I was horrified (!!!!!) to see how that woman was treating the horse under her care. I’m glad you addressed this issue.
Surprisingly, many people need to hear this. Thank you Graeme for reminding people how bad this is! ❤🐴🐎🐴❤
When Graeme says it's abuse and there is a better way, you can believe it. Graeme always amazes me with how kind and patient he is with his herd. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
It's not in him to be anything else but nice to them
The more I listen to your quiet and sensible way of explaining everything the more I admire your ways
Thank you very much
Thank you, Graeme, for educating yet again. I can't count the number of times I've seen the casual use of this snapping motion in videos, making it seem normal and harmless. I hope your video spreads wide and far.
Thanks Ayeda, me too. We'll see what happens! Hopefully a change
Importance in the details
oh wow, good for you for speaking up! I agree, whether it's in person or online, I think people need to speak up if possible. I definitely agree on the keeping calm and heart centred part too
I'm sad that this type of video needs to be put out there but grateful for you to do it. What a terrible way to treat your best friend! That is most definitely abuse. I can't imagine how much this sets back that level of trust between horse and rider.
Thanks Teresa. Yes, it's not good at all and I sure hope I can make a small difference in this world for some horses and people.
This is a very beautiful and respectful attitude 🙏
VERY Good Advice-Thank You!!!
Some people just don’t realize how Sensitive a horse’s head-IS!!!
With ANY Living Being-It’s an Automatic First Reaction to Move AWAY from-PAIN...
It Doesn’t Mean-to be Aggressive, Disobedient Or Anything Else...
Other Than What It-IS...Confused AND Hurt.
Granted-Spontaneous Accidents Happen...
Still-Speaking On An Every Day Level...
Being-Thoughtless and Inconsiderate to ANY Horse...
IS-Being...A Truly BAD-Horse Person.
Your Horse-IS...
Your-Partner AND Friend...
He Or She SHOULD Be Treated-As Such.
Always.
😇
I've noticed stallions getting handled like this very often in videos when they're being shown. It's a very sad thing 😞
Yes, a lot of stallions get treated horribly.
This is exactly what I am being taught to do when a horse tries to ‘lead me’ to the arena, to back them up, or fix a behavior. I bought my first horse last august and it’s just too much to spill here but he is currently at a trainer 4hrs away. Before he left he would greet me, follow me, back up, side pass, bend side to side. I went yesterday to see him and the trainer said he knew nothing and bucks all the time. Crow hops at the tie block, and I watched him interact with the trainer- eyes bugging out of his face, completely tucked into himself the whole time. But bc I feel I have no other options he is staying another month. He didn’t seem to know who I was. He was mentally checked out. I spent 2.5hrs loving on him, taking him on a walk and by the end his eyes were soft again but his mind was still somewhere else 😭💔 I’m new to horses, took me 35 yrs for the little 3yr old girl who fell in love with them to finally buy one. He’s a young mustang, needs people who know but unfortunately I feel I’m in a corner. His feet were so perfect when I left him there, 4wks later I’m being told he needs shoes on all four?? And I’ve seen your video on horse shoes… 🥺 I’m getting to the point of not affording these trainers but not having my own space to keep him and feeling stuck. No one seems to be on the same page with what I’m trying to do with him, except you. Being greener than my horse it’s hard to manage. I bought him thinking the horse world was full of people like me who want the relationship, but everything is a job and an expectation. If I could send my baby to you I would!! Maybe like summer camp for the family lol 😄
Sadly,
I did not even recognize his demeanor. When my young kids hugged him to say goodbye, he closed his eyes for the really long hugs. It’s just very sad. I can’t bring him back until he’s ‘safe for me to ride’ The barn he was at when I first got him, I can bring him back to but no trainers. I lack confidence and ‘he has my number..?’ So I’m left with just forever doing groundwork…never riding. You could private message me somehow, I’d love more insight. Maybe you know of someone in my area that thinks like you and I, and has your knowledge and approach. I need someone who can do the doing and then teach me.
Thank you for what your providing for horses and their owners🩵
For yourself and your horse, please rescue the horse from this trainer 😳🙏😢 This is a horse being traumatized by a horrible, abusive trainer! You WILL find someone who can help you, even if it’s someone who helps YOU remotely. There are lots of qualified, horse-centered trainers who give online consultations and lessons from a distance, if you cannot find someone closer. You CAN do this. The horse - and you - deserve better!
I'm in agreement with Kathy, I would remove my horse from that situation and demand my money back if possible. Until you do that, I'm not sure what I'd suggest for you.
First, get your horse back and then assess where it's at. You're in the corner you put yourself in, so you have the full ability to get yourself back out :) Once you start walking the good path, you'll be so much more empowered for it.
I really do feel for your difficult situation. A young Mustang would be a lot of work for someone new to horses as you mentioned you are and I mean that not to disrespect you in any way, I know I would also struggle immensely.
You clearly love your horse and want the best for him which is the foundation of a good partnership that can be built upon. I do hope that you can take your horse out of this situation and find someone genuine and empathic that will be able to work with your horse and help you and your horse towards a lasting deep partnership together.
@@odileflint7082 thank you. Yes, I knew he would require lots of training and love but thought I had people around me to go on the journey with him. He has taught me a lot and we love doing ground work /games together but I need a solid hands-on trainer to ride him through the learning bc I’m not equipped to. I am in the process of getting him back and will spend the next few months regaining our relationship while I will keep searching for the right person help🩵
Great teaching once again ! You are so so good at communicating your wisdom. I use your methods every single day I am with them . Annie and Bear are the same age . He will be 2 June 11. It has been so fun watching as you raise her to be such a gentle , happy Horse . And she is beautiful 💞 No snapping ever ! Thank you 💞 Laura 💞 Bear 💞 Willow
Thank you Laura :)
🤗🐴🌟 I have NEVER and I would NEVER do that. 🌟Good, Graeme, that YOU demonstrated/explained an incorrect training method. YES, detrimental 🐴 mentally & physically.
Wow. This was so well articulated. Seeing the clip of Linda actually made my heart hurt. Hearing you say the halter is an extension of you was something I had never even really thought of. I wish you could see the notebook that I have where I write down the things you teach. I have to pause your videos all the time so I can write down your wisdom. Thank you for how honest you always are. And Annie is SUCH a good girl and she is looking so beautiful.
I wish I could see that notebook too! That would be amazing to read through and could be the start of an amazing book! You should write one :)
@@StableHorseTrainingOh gosh, all the credit for any book, kind sir- would go to you. You should consider writing one!!!! The things you teach are things I want engrained in my braing forever, and I am sure many of the others here feel the same way. Graeme- you are always very humble- but I will butter you up for all of eternity just so you know how amazing you truly are. I haven't ridden since I was a young girl. I wish I had followed my heart back then and stuck with it, but we all know how life can go. Now, im in my late 30's, dealing with this crappy Lyme disease- but the light at the end of the tunnel for me is going back to school and I hope I get the chance to share with my classmates the amazing things I have learned from you. (I will also certainly tell them how to find you online).
I've thought about it but have never really been sure of what I'd write about or how I'd put it together. Maybe one day. Thank you for the compliments, that's very kind and generous of you to say. That's great that you're coming through it all and off to school soon. I'm quite sure it will all go very well!
We must use the halter to define our relationship with the horse - wonderful advice !! ♥️
It's sad that there will always be those humans that should not have pets or children.
This video was inspired by a reasonably popular UA-cam horse trainer actually... he uses this technique all the time and people love him.
@@StableHorseTraining may I ask who you refer to please
I don't make a point of calling out other channels or people on this channel. If you send me an email then I'll let you know.
Totally agree
Thank you for explaining the how and why of the proper us of the halter and rope.
My pleasure
Thank you so much for sharing that characterization of the halter, especially #3. While I've never pulled down on the lead, you've given me a light bulb moment - the halter as an extension of me. Only love and kindness should go through the rope, and the halter should be a hug!
💞🦄💞
Precisely.
I'm SOOO glad that you do these videos. If you can bring awareness and change the minds and hearts of others, that's huge for these beautiful beings!
Seeing the clip of that video immediately made my ears so hot. People like that are animal abusers and I'd strongly argue that with anyone. I could never in my life see that happening and not say something. I know firsthand horses can sometimes be a handful. Abuse is never the answer. Growing up, I had family members who were horribly mean to most animals, especially their horses. I remember getting belted so bad because I couldn't contain my anger towards someone, and I yelled at them to just stop! Once I grew up and had a choice, I've never had anything to do with any of them.
I'm so passionate about this subject.
Wow.. I'm sorry you had to put up with people that felt physical abuse was the answer, even against you...
Thank you! I have seen multiple equestrians on UA-cam do this exact method and while I am not an equestrian and may never have a horse due to my living situation in a city that does not accommodate a horse's needs for herd life, foraging, and space, I have always thought "this looks mean" whenever I would watch a video and see them snap a lead rope down the horse's head especially when it comes to younglings. I don't get the sense of treating a horse or another animal with such an archaic, detrimental technique that can lead to abuse and at this point, I agree that it needs to be discarded into the garbage bin.
Anyway, Annie is adorable especially with that gorgeous mane.
Yes, there are some very well "loved" horse trainers on UA-cam that use this technique all the time and justify it as if they are doing the very best they can for the horse. They're not. It's mean and quite literally kindergarten level of horsemanship, if we'd even call it that.
I witnessed this so many times growing up I hated it but at a young age I couldn’t say anything.
Kids do have a hard time, adults too for that matter!
I had no idea! No one has told me this before and I'm afraid I have done it! My gelding is quite pushy and often walks ahead of me to cut me off to eat grass while I'm leading him. Thank you for all you teach!!!
Great lesson. I learned a lot. I haven't had the honor to spend much time with horses, but I love them nonetheless. I'm no fan of people who are cruel to animals, and I never would have known that a halter could be such a tool of cruelty if used improperly.
Excellent, thanks for letting me know. Yes, in the hands of those that are rough, it's very very hard on them.
This is such a healthy way to look at horse training and just interaction with horses in general. Thanks for sharing such an important message, Graeme.
Thank you for educating people in such a clear and sensible way - not only telling them what to do or not to do but WHY. Annie is a perfect example of your gentle, consistent, and fair methods - a wild and scared horse is now calm and totally trusting in you to keep her safe.
my pleasure :)
That was good information. My philosophy is that gentle training makes a gentle horse. Snatching on a lead rope is not gentle training, neither is jerking on bridle reins. Both of them cause pain response of throwing the head up as a reaction to pain. I wish more people would watch you. You’re an amazing horse trainer. God Bless you.
Thank you very much Starlene
This is so moving. Everything we attach to a horse should be with the understanding that it is an extension of ourselves and our relationship with them. You articulated this very well and it is with great hope that more people involved with all aspects of horse care really take this to heart.
Thank you Sandy :)
🙏❤️ I do not understand how anyone could not be horrified by hurting a horse with these way-too-common practices. 😢
Unless a life is literally in immediate danger (which is extremely rare), then I can’t believe people still do this. Yet ofc this is how I was taught.
I literally got this inspiration from a person that sent me to a UA-cam channel with extremely high praises for the channel owner that is reasonably popular right now and this is his go to move quite often. I can't stand watching the guy and what he does but people love it. They also love horses and are trusting his framing and techniques. The end justifies the means kind of story line is his thing. People eat that stuff up especially when presented as a success in the end. Lack of experience and understanding has the general public having no idea what has been done and why it's so bad or how there are far superior methods... Anyways, hopefully I can bring a bit of awareness to the technique and the objective observations and understandings we can come to for it.
I'm so grateful I found you Graeme ❣ 🐎 I've learned soooo much
@@StableHorseTraining I don't know much about horses but I would watch a lot of videos by one particular trainer who was always working with 'problem' horses and always shaking the rope at them. Recently I watched Jesse Drent working with a 'problem' horse. It's amazing how Jesse was able to accomplish a lot of the same things that this other 'trainer' does without being a bully.
Well... We might be thinking about the same guy. Good for Jesse for sorting things out better then. That's nice.
Hi Graeme, I think you didn't see it but Annie ate something at the very end of the video... Anyway, your presentation makes a lot of sense. You are so talented in feeling what a horse feels. You have a lot of empathy for them👍The problem is people doing the other ways, do it because they were told that way and aren't even aware they are causing pain. Then they are surprised to get the opposite result e. g. head up repeating their action causing more pain. I tell you I have seen this so many times and must admit very humbly, to have done it myself, maybe (not sure, among the many things I did wrong by pure ignorance) ... 😳 Just thinking of the many times I saw a horse lift his head, while handled with a halter on, and surely with a bridle on causing pain in the mouth! I saw people struggling to get a horse lower his head and get the opposite result! Thank you for making people aware of their weakness in that sense.
Yes, it was a leaf :)
Thanks! Yes, empathy is a good word here for sure but there are so many people that have commented (let alone all the ones that haven't) that can see clearly how unkind it looks. I understand there are a pile of trainers using it and teaching it because they were probably taught it and use it, and so on and so forth. That said, critical thinking needs to take place at some point along the line here...
@@StableHorseTraining yes, 👍each action depends on how people were trained and then along the years of getting experience, their own judgement and common sense should prevail on what is kind or unkind to a horse I think. When I see how horses are handled or abused in film sometimes... One wonders whether it is real or special effects... For simple riders the unkind starts with the bit and how they pull on the reins for some of them.
Omg yes j 100% agree. I was just thinking about this topic the other day. I’ve taught my horse to back up like 4 different ways, all starting with liberty and then adding a touch cue (either a touch to the neck or a light neck rope cue) as I’m doing the liberty cue and with my body position (as well as a voice cue) so the horse learns they mean the same thing. There is straight up no reason to use the “Clinton Anderson” backing up technique and when I see any horse trainer use it I honestly just think they don’t know what they are doing at all…like all it does is teach a horse to be head shy and be afraid of your touch on the head and face and for them to fling their head up on you. I can’t think of a worse method then a clip under the halter chin and using it against them. I will always advocate for 100% Bitless riding and liberty training for communication.. as well as no snaps on halters. Btw good video, more people need to stop stupid techniques that hurt the horse and their relationship with their horse. I also gentle and train mustangs, the last thing they need is bad training techniques.
Wonderful explanation, Graeme. Thanks so much for doing this video!! Annie did great too!
Well said! Beautiful Annie was a great assistant.
Hi Annie! Great to see she's growing up well.
Well put. Thank you. Do you have a video on how to attach the lead rope on the halter properly without the snap?
I do: ua-cam.com/video/kn2nw62J6MU/v-deo.html
Thanks so much for making this video. I've seen so many videos on UA-cam where horse 'trainers' do this in a mistaken effort to get their point accross you often hear them say things like they are 'showing them who is boss' where I really suspect it's another case of ego driven behavior and dominance that's magnified even further when they believe they have an online following.
Thank you for educating people as it's easy to forget there are many that watch horse videos on UA-cam that have little or no experience of horses that may incorrectly assume that those 'trainers' were demonstrating horsemanship as opposed to what it really is - abuse and bullying.
My pleasure. It's true, many people see it as a horse deserving and I've seen a particular trainer being "sorry" to have to be so rough and a pile of people discouraging him from even saying sorry as they feel it was totally justified and was a good part in sorting that horse out.
Thank you for this post. I am a confirmed believer in kinder gentler training, for all animals. Animals think, feel, need and want as well as are fully aware of the circumstances. A horse could be in charge of a situation at any moment.
You are totally right, when trainers say the wipe is an extension of your hands to rub and make the horse feel good. The rope and halter are also an extension of your hand, and the tugging of the rope would be as if you use your hands to hit and cause pain to the horse. I'm training my first mustang right now. I'm not a professional trainer and she is almost ready to go under saddle and I can't think of any reason why I would need to yank on my horse's halter. if a trainer has to resort to pain that's not a good trainer.
I hope things go really well for you on your training path with your horse!
Gentle, patient, calm communication. The animal that trusts their handler will not harm them is far more responsive to training and care. Most of the time I just use a lead rope doubled up and laid over their neck, not tied or clipped, no halter. The horses walk with me on the cue of the rope. Gentle pressure and release and they get where we are going.
Such a sweet little girl Annie is! Thanks for spreading kindness to horses 💜
Seeing that woman being so brutal to the horse both enraged me and pains my heart
"Defines our relationship." Wow.❤❤❤
Appreciate you. I've watched MANY horse channels and really felt bad whenever seeing people jerk on the halter. I felt like there had to be a better way
There is a better way, a far far better way to get what they want done and also a better version of what they think they want too...
Me too @limitedtime5471
Very important information for horse owners. Thanks.
Excellent Vide0!
A good and elaborate explanation/ teaching of this subject.
Irritating story from ms Tracy about "trainers". Good that you pinned the comment.
Thanks! Yes, not an unusual story though... unfortunately
I have only used that method twice. And it was for 1 reason only. When nothing I was doing was working to gather the horses attention when they were in fight or flight mode and entering into a dangerous space for them and me. It was used to say "hey, snap out of it". Immediately after doing it I released them from the lead line giving them the ability to go through their reaction before attempting to work with them again. Any time I see someone using this method for any other readers it hurts my heart. I felt terrible after having to do that. But thankfully, I feel like the horses understood as I was able to approach them at liberty immediately after their reactions were over.
Honestly Graeme, I think you should be honoured, a Knighthood perhaps for your education in cruelty free horsemanship. 😍🐎UK.
Thanks! Let's get a hold of the king for that one then :)
Talking about the King I'm appalled by the situation of the Kings Guards in White Hall who tolerate such a mass tourism harrassing their horses for a selfie. It should be forbidden to approach them within a few meters. They have to stand still for hours chewing their bits, touched by hundreds hands a day..
I don't think the royal family has ever been known to treat their horses well. Ever. Absolute neanderthals in that regard.
Thank you for pointing this out. I've seen this done and I never thought it was right to do. It's always good to learn these things, so we know it's something we don't do even if others think it's right. It was always my gut feeling it was wrong to do.
my pleasure :)
I agree. I have a lot of experience with mammals and mostly human. How would we like being haltered and jerked on at the head and neck. I just have always thought about horses, domestically, versus in the wild. There’s nothing in the wild, that duplicates, a halter, bit bridle lead rope…. If I’m ever blessed enough to have a horse, then it will be a liberty relationship. And yes, the halter and lead rope are exactly the element of the relationship is being used. It should be a kind, gentle and patient use.
I love this!
Good!!!! I've seen this on other videos (had a crack at them obv) So overly agressive and horses communication is so subtle.
Thank you ! Great info. 👍
Well said 👍.
There are too much videos on UA-cam of bad trainers or riders.
Well done sweet Annie 😍.
❤ thank you for getting this out there. God bless you
Right!
Well presented.THANK YOU.
I think people don't care about a horses feelings. They just say it's just a horse whenever they mistreat it, they don't seem to understand. The cognitive dissonance is strong with them.
I agree.
Great content
Thank you!
First job I ever had with horses I was taught to do that, never did cus I thought it was just mean, the place I worked at that taught me it also used stud chains so the horses either had them on the nose or gums so that snapping hurt them alot! not sure why they had them but this barn was always in such a rush so that could be that it got work done faster, hurting horse made them back up fast. My boos even knew she was hurting them but she wanted work done fast! not sure why we had to get everything done so fast as we had 12 hours to get all our work done it was so stressful for me cus we where rushed so much we got 10 hours of work done in 6 some people have no patience and days when the barn had shows was the worst. I also remember that Linda parelli video what makes it all the more worse was the horse is blind in one eye so he can't see well so he was probably really really confused.
As my vet said to me one day, slower is smoother and smoother is better.
Really good content, a great precise and easy to follow video on why this is a bad thing. You always impress me with your teachings. Question, do you think this is why some horses don’t like the top of their head touched or are not happy being haltered because of pain in the past caused by a human doing this?
Thanks Sam. Yes, this would definitely be a contributor to that reaction from a horse for sure.
Bravo!
I was taught by a couple people to yank on the lead rope hard to get the horse off the grass as I was leading it. Seemed so wrong. What do you do if they won't get off the grass? Wouldn't it be better to use the tail of the lead rope (gently swinging it) from behind to get them moving?
I wouldn't treat it a lot different than if I was going to try to get a horse to cross a waterway. Their head being up isn't a priority to me, it's having the feet move with mine. As mentioned, the lead and halter can be used to "draw" a horse, so I would pull and not give up. Many people have so little patience that they try something and seconds later they are losing it with whips, yanking and yelling. It's so weird. I'd practice and practice with that horse to get it to a point where I could use a vocal command like "up" and I'd have their head to me. Reward with gratefulness and kindness and they'll go anywhere you go in time. A person that is yanking is one that is yelling. If that has to happen more than once, then it's the human that isn't growing, not the horse's problem at that point. Bad teacher of the horse.
@@StableHorseTraining Thanks!
What is the best solution for a horse that pins her ears, bits, and kicks when working around them? She’s perfect once your able to groom her and get her tacked up.
That reminds me of how the police feel once they get handcuffs on a criminal. They behave so much better once they know they're fully caught.
If I were to observe what you're describing, I'd say that horse utterly hates the person touching them. I would encourage that person to somehow convince that horse to like them. This may not be a possibility if the horse is in pain (which I 100% expect based on that behavior) and I would take a look at the horse's feeding schedule, feet, back and legs.
This sounds like an intense pain/rage response. No horse behaves in this way for no reason. And like Graeme said, once tacked up most horses will know its no use trying to communicate their feelings about it… at that point their nervous system goes into “I need to cope with this” mode 😢
The lady I purchased her from bought her as a 2 year old from an auction with no details on her. She is currently 6 years old and absolutely hates being worked around. She has major stall aggression as well so we take her into the ally way but still acts up a lot.
Just imagine the next time she "acts up" that she's being forced to yell at you "please stop! for the love of god and everything good, please stop doing that! I'm scared and need reassurance and care!". Perhaps that will change your mind a little bit about what she's feeling after being locked up in her jail cell and then tied up in cross ties to do the bidding of her human master. Children hold in trauma for a very very long time, I imagine you're dealing with a bit of that plus whatever has been put into her since then. This interview might be good for you if you have the time for it: ua-cam.com/video/CPxwq46Xycg/v-deo.html
So how do you correct the horse then?
for what? What's your scenario that the horse isn't doing what you want?