Animal Rights Name The Trait Game
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- Опубліковано 25 кві 2024
- A thought experiment involving the name that trait game.
This clip is from Talk Heathen, Episode 08.16 for April 21, 2024 with Sofia Spina and ObjectivelyDan!
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Cats demand gently that you respect their needs - dogs hope that you will respect their needs because of the adoration they show for you - love them both
Sea Otters have a trait you probably want to ignore 😂
It is not possible to live and not cause other organisms to die. But it is possible to do so while causing the least amount of suffering as possible. So… no hunting for pleasure, no farming without due care for the animals' welfare - both physical and mental, and choosing foods that do the least harm. That's not always vegetarian, but is usually a diet heavy in plant foods. That also extends to things like what you drive or where you build your house. Ideally, leaving the world a better place than when you arrived.
Should we support slaughterhouses if we have other options?
@@ChaseAvior Industrialized slaughterhouses that kill hundreds of thousands of animals annually, require the target animal to be trucked hundreds of kilometres in uncomfortable and distressing conditions, then kept for hours or days in the facility, with the smell of death and the distressed sounds and sights of other animals? All while you have other options? Hmm, I'll have to think about that. /s
@@ChaseAviorDoes all meat based food come from slaughterhouses?
@@shawn092182 The vast majority.
If we find an alien plant organism with different DNA from humans but acts, looks, and thinks just like humans, is it okay to kill it for food? If yes, then what's the difference between that organism and humans? If no, then what's the difference between that organism and earth plants?
Thanks for taking my call! 🙂
Buddy, the trait that gives us the right to eat animals is we breed animals to eat. Chickens dont exist in the wild, nor do cows or pigs. Theyre designed critters made to be food for us. Why is it that you care more about the suffering of chickens who barely know they exist versus actually exploited peoples who pick and package the vegetables that you eat. You always claim the ethical high ground, but it comes off as putting animals before humans. Humans are human, they will always put humans above animals. All your examples come down to individual exceptions. You're trying to build a false dichotomy.
Your points we're frustratingly straw man. Lacking the potential for sapience would be a real example. Another interesting one to see you tackle would be design. Humans function better when provided a diet that includes meat. Im not suggesting a moral system built on eating whatever meat we can get, but we cannot deny our biological need for meat, ethically sourced or otherwise. You wouldnt say "lion, dont eat meat, it's wrong" but you make exceptions for us. Hell, you dont even say "hey raccoons, dont eat meat" even though you claim they are intelligent and equal in ethical treatment.
@@TrappyJenkins If we were to breed certain humans for slaughter, would that be okay with you?
@@TrappyJenkins Why would you use a lion to base your morality on? They eat competing prides cubs. Does that mean I can eat my neighbors children?
We don't hold non-human animals higher than humans. (Though my animal companions are superior to all humans, lol).
All we ask is that we leave them alone. I'd rather we didn't breed chickens, cows, and pigs into existence just to live a life of misery and then be eaten.
"Humans are humans." Yes, that's true. Non-human animals are people in non-human bodies. Humans are animals. If humans are people, so are non-human animals.
End the slavery and exploitation of all animals!
@@TrappyJenkinswait.. so we shouldn't eat like wild caught salmon?
You think disabled people are lesser humans? Wow, dude.
Dan the vegan man 🤘
Dan rocks!
Go Dan!! 💚
that's not reductio ad absurdum, absurdity in the fallacy doesn't merely mean something that you personally think is crazy or unpleasant
I dont need to shoot aliens to be alive. I do need meat atm until we can make our own meat. So yea ..
Vegans have a reduced risk of cancer,
type 2 diabetes, and heart disease.
Vegan diets are appropriate
for all stages of the life cycle,
including pregnancy, lactation, infancy,
childhood, adolescence, older adulthood,
and for athletes.
- Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
A balanced Vegan diet
gives you all the nutrients
your body needs.
- National Health Service
Vegan diets are healthy
for people of all ages.
- British Dietetic Association
Fallacy of Leading the Question
Are you saying it is okay to slaughter humans? If not, then the question is appropriate. What's the difference between the two beings?
@@ChaseAvior do you know what the fallacy is? Did I say that is my stance?
The difference is DNA.
If we find an alien plant organism with different DNA from humans but acts, looks, and thinks just like humans, is it okay to kill it for food? If yes, then what's the difference between that organism and humans? If no, then what's the difference between that organism and earth plants?
@@shawn092182 do you understand the fallacy?
It is not moral to kill anything living for food. Save the plants!
I hear you. The thing that prevents me taking the leap towards vegetarianism is that it is a natural action. Animals kill each other to survive, it's a food chain. I'm definitely open to having my mind changed.
Plants have no brain or pain receptors.
@@anthonythompson1680 Is that an Appeal to Nature fallacy? A lion would kill a child. Does that make it okay for us to kill children?
@@anthonythompson1680 It's true that other animals kill each other to survive, but we can't pick and choose certain things to justify from animal behavior. The animal kingdom is full of rape, murder, incest, etc., but you wouldn't accept those actions for humans.
The whole point is that a lion doesn't understand the harm they do. Humans understand the harm of our actions and should try to be better.
On a side note, "natural" justification isn't a good baseline for a moral framework because nothing about the modern world we live in is natural anyways.
Plants are not sentient, animals are not
So what’s the trait that makes plants okay to slaughter but not animals?
Plants have no brain or pain receptors.
Plants are not sentient
Plants are not sentient
Lack of sentience and nervous systems are usually pointed to.
@@sarahallegra6239Some, if not all, plants, are sentience, and do feel pain, just different from some animals.
"Name the trait" certainly isn't the start and end of the vegan discussion.
But reflecting on how we treat other sentient beings is so much more than just a "fun thought experiment" (5:15).
Let's say you go back a few hundred years (or you go to some countries in the modern day, or you find some people with questionable beliefs in this country). You find someone who doesn't believe in equal rights. How would you argue against that? If you try to argue with them by digging into what the actual traits are that differentiates humans of different races, that justifies giving rights to some people but not others, would you accept them saying that's absurd and it's just a "fun thought experiment"?
This is not to say humans and other animals are exactly the same, but this dismissive attitude to moral discussion is exactly how societies accept moral atrocities.
Thanks for your input!
objectively dan - wash and coif your hair
🍍
@@CycocelVocalist love objectively dan, just a suggestion from a viewer
It's called styling gel. You would know this if you had any.
@@godsire6217 oof! lol. truly meant no harm to him - he's great. Just a comment about presentation. But maybe my views on that are dated
The trait I pick is taste. If the animal tastes good, I eat it. Easy-Peasy.
Problem with that one is that it enables cannibals to do their thing
@@Macluny as ghoulish as non-murderous cannibalism is, it is not ethically bad as best I can tell. Do you have a specific reason to be against it.
@@DariusRoland We're talking about slaughter. Why is it oaky to slaughter animals, but not humans? Taste? Well, humans might taste good. Does that make it okay to slaughter humans?
@@DariusRolandLet’s be real, no one thinks that eating something that lived a happy life and died of old age is immoral. Non-murder cannibalism and meat eating aren’t really comparable. A better comparison would be the meat farming methods we use today and (I’m serious) the actual f*cking Holocaust.
@@DariusRolandbut you dont eat non murdered animals, so this is irrelevant. As mentioned, if taste pleasure is your argument, cannibalism is justified
This call is hilariously stupid
Why? How do you think you would feel if you were the victim in a slaughterhouse?
@@ChaseAviorHow do you think plants feel?
@@shawn092182 Plants have no brain or nervous system.
People are all humans…that’s the trait we should use.
Circular
Is that the same as the DNA trait?
Non-human animals are people in non-human bodies. Humans are animals. If humans are people, so are non-human animals.
@@jonascreed7825
So an alien, as mentioned in the call, basically the same as a human, just not homo sapien, are on the menu?
Non-human animals are people in non-human bodies. Humans are animals. If humans are people, so are non-human animals.
Not all people are human.
Wow, his first argument is that disabled people are lesser people. Wow, dude.