THIS is Why Car Engineers and Car Mechanics Don't Always Get Along!
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- We look at a classic case of why Car Engineers and Car Mechanics don't always get along because of some of the designs that are not repair friendly.
This 2010 Lexus RX350 is a prime example of that with 2 integrated servos that require disassembling the whole interior to replace and without a sure way of testing.
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As a retired tech, I can vouch for the fact that engineers have never given a second thought about serviceability . Their goal is ease of assembly and reduced cost.
Not true that they don’t care or think about it. Engineers have bosses too and often must do as they’re directed.
@@paulferreira8342 When you have to remove a bumper and fender to replace a headlight, someone, somewhere doesn’t care.
Assembly and reduced cost? If it was that easy…when designing cars they have to balance reliability, performance, technology integration, safety, cost and durability. All competing priorities and serviceability being in that mix. Your comment is like all a tech does is replace worn part with newer part.
The goal of automotive engineers’ *management* is low parts and assembly costs. Not necessarily the engineers themselves.
Same goes for programmers. I work in IT and I’ve witnessed the frustration good programmers experience answering to those in charge instead of writing good code.
@@johnt7776 Oh look. An offended engineer. You act like placing a starter inside a bell housing or an injection computer in the valley of an intake is balancing reliability. Book sense vs common sense.
HINT: Tape off your defrost vent when you get a new windshield. The windshield installer doesn't care if they drop stuff into your defrost vent.
Thank you! I need my windshield replaced.
Great idea!
Now that is a pro tip!
Once I saw a dead spider near the defrost vent. It’s been there for a while so it’s dried up and brittle. I tried to pick it up but it broke in two pieces and fell in the defrost vent. I hope it’s not going to be an issue. In hindsight I should have use a vacuum to suck it out.
Good reminder!
Windshield replacement can be messy
This has to be 1 of the best Car mechanics on UA-cam. He knows his stuff, no question. He is very polite and honest. And unfortunately, we know the stories about some mechanics who are not honest. Thank you Car Care👍👍👍👍👍👍
LOL... Keep Guzzling that Koolaid 😂
Retired from Lexus and this brings back nightmares 😂
😢😢😢😢😢😢
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
😣😣😣😣😣😣
Take 3 deep breaths, it will be OK.
Thank you, as a 30+ year mechanic I appreciate your input to the many “bad design “ tasks. You just can’t explain why a job takes so much time to do! Unless you show customer. I might also add some of the things that will break during this job, some plastic connections will break because they are old and brittle.
You do us proud to show customers what is involved. I watch all your videos, as I always like to see how another mechanic approaches a job! Thanks !!
Remember the days of slide levers on the dash? PERFECTION!
Serious... my 99 Corolla is getting a bit long on the tooth sometimes, but then I see a video like this and all of a sudden I remember while this old dog is still around.
LOVE the standard three knob and/or slider HVAC design from the 90s and early 00s. So simple. And they still work.
yup, cable driven.
I had a Yaris with mechanical controls for temperature (valve) and blend door. Simple perfection. Now I have a 16 Camry with electronic controls. It is Toyota so maybe it will last a long time but then for sure how long will it last?
I'm a car engineer that used to work on cars all the time, I try to make my stuff serviceable when it's possible. I replaced the heater core and blend door actuator on a Lincoln Navigator once, that was a 10 hour job. The HVAC box is about the first part that gets installed on the line.
Most engineers have zero or near zero car knowledge. The #1 Design Directive: Cost savings. #2: Design for assembly (ease of assembly, fewer fasteners, ergonomics to eliminate line worker repetitive stress injuries, etc). #3: Make it last at least the length of the warranty, our internal directive is 15 years. I asked my boss early on how we take into account how to work on the car, he just laughed.
Absolutely! I worked for a manufacturer and "every vehicle has to be assembled, not every one will need repairs" was something many in vehicle development and assembly engineering would say.
Sometimes they are thoughtful of the repair guys. The evap and heater core should have an access port for easy repair.
@@rwdplz1 car engineer?
@@Holt0216 Senior Automotive Design Release Engineer, the video title said 'car engineer'
Exactly. Mechanics are only thinking from their perspective, which as natural and common a human thing to do as it comes. Of course 2nd+ owners and mechanics like ease of maintenance and repair; but on the car lot, those things don’t sell cars. This is another case of people just being dissatisfied with collective human behavior. People buy cars based on the dumbest things… A trip they have coming up the following weekend, and so on. It’s “our “ collective fault as humans. People buying American and leasing expensive German cars are the biggest contributors, but really anyone buying a new car contributes to the phenomenon. That being said if no one bought new ones, there could not be any good used ones to buy…
A shop I worked at long long ago used to call the HVAC box the "double cheeseburger," because typically either the technician that had to work on it had a heart attack, or the customer had a heart attack when presented with the estimate.
Back when I did line work, I had a rule that if the box came out, everything got replaced. Either a whole new HVAC assembly, or every serviceable part got replaced, and I would discount labor to prevent double-billing.
As for the engineering side of things, I stopped being angry a long time ago. The reality is, the engineers are very specifically tasked with finding the most efficient design for assembly, not for service. Every single engineer that works on these vehicles is absolutely capable of creating field-serviceable designs, but their management's directives do not budget for it. It's not the engineers' fault. They have X-amount of labor hours allocated for the design of a subsystem, with a bullet-point list of goals to acheive.
Hello,
By saying everything gets replaced, what parts are you referring to? I think I know but I'm still learning.
Thank you so much. 😊
@@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat If not the entire HVAC assembly, then any and all serviceable parts. Evaporator core, heater core, any and all actuators, any foam and/or padding on the various doors and baffles, vacuum hoses, grommets, valves, etc. Every HVAC assembly can be so different, it's difficult to be specific, but I approach it on a case-by-case basis.
It's always a good idea to check for TSBs regarding common failure items within the HVAC assembly and address them while the assembly is out of the vehicle, even if it's not currently a problem.
In a real-world scenario, you'll do your diagnostics to address the customer complaint, and look up the repair procedure. If the procedure involves removing the HVAC assembly, STOP and immediately talk with the customer to let them know it's an expensive repair to see if they even want to proceed. If they do, let them know you'll put a couple estimates together, for both fixing only the problem they brought it in for, and also a quote for rebuilding/replacing the entire HVAC assembly. Keep your focus on educating your customer and helping them make the best decision for them. Don't worry about "selling" a higher priced job. Sell yourself, educate your customers, and just be honest, and you will do better than 90% of the people around you. :)
@@rhkips I hear you 100%. What gets me is some people know every app on their $1000+ phone but their vehicle that costs tens of thousands more they have no basic clue how it works but when told this is broken or that should be replaced, all of a sudden they are an expert and know a guy who can fix it cheaper. Oy vey... I tell ya, I don't expect them to know every detail about every system but damn... learn a few things of how stuff works and more so, be open to a professional showing them what, why, and how something is messed up.
I'm sure you get it. Thanks for the info. What are some of your favorite vehicles?
No ild parts are going back for sure. Doing a timing chain and belt for example? Everything gets replaced. Replacing radiator? New hoses and clamps unless they been replaced within 3 years. I not going in twice unless the customer want to pay for twice 😂😂😂.
@@ahmadghosheh3104 yea right!!! I'm with you. Forget doing 2x the work.
As Rainman Ray says, "I love my job, I'm doing it twice." It just makes sense but I do understand sometimes the whole system is not in their budget and they just want the single failed part replaced. They can't think about a month, a season let alone next year when something in the same location fails and the motor or whatever has to be torn open again.
Give me a classic car any day.
AMD, We have reached the point where Toyota should be getting your pre-approval before they release a new car or modify an existing design . 😉😁
Then toyota would be boycotted by their bean counter😂
Agree
Agreed...
The engineer's egos would not allow a Mechanic to advise them. Sort of like a grunt sergeant advising a wise-ass college boy 2nd. lieutenant from West Point in the field. It supposedly happened a lot in Vietnam and cost a lot of lives.
I second that! Toyota MUST be approved by Ahmed before any car is released in the U.S. I highly doubt that Ahmed can be bought off nor will he cave into the pressures of lobbyists. Let's call Congress and legislate this into law.
The more I watch your programs the more apprehensive I get about my car. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. You're educating me about things in my car I'm not really sure I want to think about.
Make sure there's enough $$$ on your credit card when you go in for repairs on these newer cars!
Then let me show you how brakes really work, that will give you nightmares.😂
It's not only cars. I used to be able to repair most anything in my home. We just had our one month old washing machine repaired under warranty. We had to wait for over a week to get a replacement part. It took the tech about 4 hours to complete for some reason. I was out and when I returned home my wife was fuming. The tech left leaving dirty fingerprints all over the machine and chipped paint, the damn thing works worse than before. When I called the store where we purchased the Washer the guy I was talking to said Yeah, ok and hung up on me. That was a day ago and NOTHING! My blood pressure is slowly rising. I'm going right to the store manager and insist they return my $12.000+ and come and take it back.
If I repaired someones car like that I would have been fired.
The more I watch these programs because I watch the car Wizard to is either lease a car or drive a junker.
What I do when I’m taking something like this apart is put the bolts and screws in plastic bags and number the bags according to the stages of the disassembly. Then reverse the order for the reassembly. And take videos if you can.
As an engineer, they mainly design based on lowering labor costs for the factory. If they can make it easier for mechanics, they will. But the manufacturers cost takes priority
Priority: Use and Dispose!
Makes sense.
Holt0216
That makes sense
And consumers should respond by not buying cars that have components that are not accessible.
@@s.j.5850kinda hard when they all follow boss discretion. Most vehicle hardly last longer than 10+ years. Some surpass it because of good maintenance and driver driving habits (not running cheetor speed on a family car).
I just got Tbone on my Toyota Camry 2008. Now I notice most vehicle have that stupid start/stop engine and 4 or 6 Cylinder Turbo. The market is going that way. Either I find a vehicle with none of that with good reputation, reliability and low mileage is kinda hard. It takes time which I don't have because of insurance, rental expiration time limit, work and etc.
Some engineer probably got an award for finding a way to control all of those doors with one motor.
It's the same with buyers. If they find a supplier who offers a few cents less, they are congratulated. And too bad for reliability...
I think one motor controlling multiple doors like that is common. My 2010 Civic does the same thing. The difference is, the servo motor is accessible from under the dash - a little awkward, but definitely doable.
I will NEVER again complain about changing the blend-door actuator on my Grand Marquis; what a mess! GREAT VIDEO!
Once upon a time there was access for some car air handler units through the engine bay. That is no longer an option because there is no space to access that side, especially with transverse engines. Nowadays you have to open your wallet wide when you go in for repairs.
Never keep a car past the warranty.
Recent "updates" made on cars, make used cars with turbos,9 speed transmission and lots of useless tech,a drive the little people into the poorhouse.
My 2007 Lincoln Town Car was pretty easy to change all the blend door and mode door servos on the heater box without doing all that. You can access them through the glove box, radio hole, and instrument cluster hole. Not needing to remove the entire dashboard.
Brig back the Grand Marquis and the Colony Park!!!
@@merrillschaps2325 Hi, I have the same problem in my 2006 Grand Marquis . Can you suggest a couple of websites/ videos where I can learn how to fix it? Thanks in advance !!
I absolutely HATE these servo motor jobs and evaporator jobs, especially this time of the year. When I first started in the business almost 30 years ago, these jobs were easy. You could get the evaporator out in less than an hour. Now the job takes a whole f-ing day or more and I hate it.
longer time equals more money and profit
@@RATCHETMAN1001 Nah, that job takes at least a day and more and there's only so much you can charge. Jobs like that are a break even job, meaning the flat-rate time and the actual time to do the work are pretty much the same. That's like doing warranty work.
@@CamKrazy2000 location and experience and reputation , not everybody can charge the time and value. im lucky i can.
Remember doing this to a 2010 Camry. I took the dash out with the heater box and steering column attached, as they did on the assembly line. Hung the complete assembly from a hoist arm with ratchet straps, took HVAC box off, and replaced all motors, heater core and evaporator. Have to say, doesn't matter who the manufacturer of the car is, this is SOP on all cars for the last 10-15 years,.
Don
I had a 2007 Tundra Limited with no heat on the drivers side.
My 20 year old 1972 Corolla’s heater worked awesome. Simplicity is key.
Dash levers and cables worked. No servos, no electricity except blower motor power.
In the old days, our fingers were the motors what moved the wired that positioned the doors.
In France, regarding the Citroën brand, we said: "why keep it simple, when you can make it complicated"!! Some of their cars were a nightmare for mechanics
My professor in school told us something I've always remembered, "engineers live in a theoretical laboratory world of their own design, mechanics on the other hand live in the real world and have to correct engineer's design".
Your professor was an ignorant idiot. Every engineer works based on a tech-spec and main goals are system efficiency, reliability and cost. Serviceability is a secondary goal however components are graded, so for instance you have "easier" access to critical engine or transmission components (grade one), and harder access to grade three (HVAC) components. HVAC Engineers are also limited in design because grade one and two components take precedence. Your "professor" who I'm sure never worked a day in an industrial environment, assumes everything is as easy as his unfeasible conference papers and can BS about Engineers.
That’s simply not true. Engineers design focus is on functionality AND serviceability, where things start to go awry for service folks is in the manufacturing engineering process where many changes occur to adapt to a more streamlined manufacturing process, serviceability is not a priority here. Unfortunately.
I guess if the professor is only talking about some design engineers. As a manufacturing engineers, I spend a lot of time on the production floor with techs and talk to them constantly. There's a lot more to engineering than being in world of our own design and there are many different types of engineers and we are constantly looking at other people designs. I see both sides of the story.... my dad was a mechanic and I'm a manufacturing engineers (but worked on cars all of my life), for the mechanics out there, it is way more complex than you would think designing something....just try to design something like a flashlight... you'll find it harder than you'll think it is. With that being said, there are definitely bad designs out there and it is always easier to see things in hindsight.... that's why bad engines usually get sent back to the manufacture to be analysis and to learn from
@@ValidAsian My late professor, was referring to design engineers. Not the production engineers who have to correct the people at design.
@@ValidAsianShame on you for being so ignorant.
i was able to repair blend door servo 2002 Lexus RX300. took apart servo and adjusted the drive screw mechanism by following youtube video and it still works 40K miles later. no parts required. Grateful after watching this 2010 Lexus nightmare!!!!
Toyota engineering should have a seasoned tech on the design team.
Why, it's better for Toyota if they can sell a new car instead of expensive work being done on the old one.
It's not even about that any automaker is looking for the cheapest & easiest way to build the vehicle. I work on equipment all the time and some things just aren't designed with service in mind. This is why all the Toyota yuppies drive me crazy because it's the same sh*t as everyone else makes. Some stuff is easy to fix and some stuff won't. That's how it will always be for any vehicle ever made.
It doesn't work like that... When someone with knowledge in one area of a company takes that knowledge into a new area of the company, they are indoctrinated and become disenfranchised quickly. It's hard to care when no one else cares. The paycheck is the same either way.
This makes one appreciate older vehicles. How much technology do you really need. Everything has its price.
The fancy touch screen and digital dashboard is all cost cutting. Its almost never for innovation.
Analog design is very expensive, especially when it has to be accurate in multiple conditions.
Preach bro. Engineers can design anything, but the cars of today have become too complicated. We need the engineers from past generations. We also need mechanics like you CCN also.
I hear you. But it's a very nostalgic comment people make all the time about 'the good ole days' when things were simpler. Would you really want to go back to those simpler cars that weren't as safe or as comfortable or even as reliable? We all have cars from our past that we absolutely loved at the time. But if we're honest with ourselves, we know that they just wouldn't stack up against modern cars for comfort, reliability, safety or performance. Especially when you compare how many weeks wages they cost back then compared to now.
@@dougsullivan9022Yes. Many of us would go back to the simplicity of older cars. Many of us elect to remain there as long as possible.
It should the choice of the buyer if they want to be nannied or not. Wish builders would/could make simple cars for the U.S. market. But lawyers & regulations have ruined new cars for me.
Blame management. They’re the ones telling us that our budget cannot afford the simplification of analog systems vs an electrical system jammed into a touch screen.
You’d be surprised how complex an analog dashboard design process is compared to a digital dashboard.
@@dougsullivan9022 In one way sure, technology advances and we get better things. Except it's just all a money hog and whatnot. Shorter lifespan, it's a continued trend in basically many industries making anything technical like.
Still driving my 2007 Highlander base model, my wife got a brand new rav4 and I feel lost in that thing with all the buttons haha. I like older cars more than these new fancy ones.
just my 2 cents for those who own old cars like me, if you live in very hot weather and get just few days of cold weather like in south Texas, after having issues with broken recycle doors or the actuators, many times in the past I noticed that in my case always happened the first days of winter..... so after years working in injection molding I learned that no matter what plastic is ALL gets drier and more brittle in cold weather, there are even some plastics that once molded and cooled down we used to ship them in a bag with water inside so it could absorbed the moisture and not be brittle when got to the assembly line in winter, so, this is what I do since like 7 years ago and have not had an issue since then with all my old cars I cycle the AC system once a month with AC cold and the heat also even if we are 100F, (air up, mixed, only floor, defrost etc) just driving on the express way at consistent speed, of 65 or 70 so the coolant flow is high and also clean the evaporator core, I got to the conclusion that if you don't frequently cycle all these plastic parts they will get harder to move and especially if you have not used your heater for 8 months and then you turn it on a very cold day when the plastic is dry and brittle and... "snap" a gear or a lever breaks or a recirculating door side post and that is it... $1,000 or more to repair..... also I like doing this to keep fresh clean coolant inside the evaporator core.......
Like everything else. USE IT or LOSE IT!! LOL!!
Oh for the days of mechanical ONLY without interference from computerized assemblies. Touch screens look cool, but aggravate the simplest action we used to do for our selves.😢
@@henrymorgan3982 motors wear out
This is a good demonstration of why sometimes a mechanic comes back saying a bunch of parts need to be replaced for what seems like a minor issue to us, the customers. Mechanics aren't always trying to gouge us, folks.
I am a mechanic and I repair my personal cars the same way I recommend work to customers. I’ll do a lot of “while I’m there” work to mitigate going back in later. It can be more expensive in parts, but it saves in future labor repairs.
Having been an almost lifelong shade tree mechanic, I have done a lot of note taking during disassembly, including step by step numbering. Also I don't shy away from things that are not meant to be disassembled. As I do this I keep things in mind as to make improvements in the repair. There is no limit to the satisfaction gained from such a successful repair. Almost makes the extra hours worth it. By the way, service and repair manuals are useful to an extent as well...in conjunction with note taking when repairing the "unrepairable".
My previous car was a 2012 Kia Rio5. The A/C stopped working after about 7 years. I had an extended warranty, so I had the dealer service it. Like this Toyota, the heater core/evaporator unit is buried in the dash and the entire front of the inside of the car has to be removed as that assembly is one of the first things put in the car when it is made (so, everything else has to be removed to get it out). The repair was about $3500 and the dealer had the car for the week (covered under my extended warranty plan). Just wanted to share since the issue in the video isn't an exclusive issue with Toyota (it's pretty much this way in every car).
Interesting comment to me because I have considered later KIA models instead of Toyota. After doing some research, I stay with Toyota for reliability. This video and your comment demonstrates why an extended manufacturer warranty can be worthwhile.
@@ashleycampbell6825 I have had the AC system fail on several previous vehicles, which is why I buy the extended warranties. I also prefer to keep my vehicles long term (10 years) and I often find that stuff starts to go after 7 years, so I find I get good value from them. The extended warranty on my Kia was $2300, but I was able to get about $7000 in repairs covered by it in the last 2 years I had it.
The Car Wizard went through many of these.
I'm a Mechanic who further did Automotive Engineering at University, most of my classmates had never held a spanner before, these are the guys who're designing some of these designs and surprisingly the chief engineer approves such designs.
I'm more than happy with the ice cold AC on my 1997 corolla which is all manual sliders for the direction and recirc controls. Only I button to turn the AC on and off, the way it should be.
Yep. I have a 94 4x4 toy pickup and a 96 4x4 tacoma, and have been into the dash for light replacements. Not difficult dashes to work on. I will avoid new vehicles as long as I can.
Yep bro. My 93 4runner also has a similar layout with cup holders in front of the 2 center vents also. Drinks become cold for drinking in less than 10 minutes lol.
Anyone who is shopping for a 2010 to 2015 RX350, check the hvac system for functionality if there is an issue , ask for a $5000 off asking price.
Everything made today is designed to be as cheap as possible to manufacture,
with zero thought given to reparing it.
I have been servicing consumer electronics since the early 70's, back then they
had removable plates so that you could gain access to replace the parts that
often failed, then as the years went by the stopped fitting them, so you had to waste
hours dismantling the entire unit and have no way of been certain that you had
replaced all the faulty components until it was reassembled exactly the same as this
cars HVAC unit is.
We made our own extension adapters to allow testing before it was fully rebuilt.
So i feel your frustration.
Todays servos and actuators have a finite life, yet they are used everytime the car is
started, crazy or what ?
This dude is great. Thx for the weather strip video for my 2015 ES on the sunroof. Fixed it perfectly - no more ratting and wind noise.
Former engineering manager here: engineering is an art of tradeoffs among function, cost, schedule, reliability, manufacturability, serviceability, longevity, etc. The biggest problems occur when there's not an easy way to take some of these "abilities" into account. As others have mentioned, getting inputs/feedback from "downstream" parties like suppliers, manufacturing, service, and end users is critical, but often not sufficiently looked for or listened to. Finally, sometimes we're just plain not smart enough, knowledgeable enough, or talented enough to find a way to make it better enough.
Oh, and this big pile of inputs & tradeoffs is why certain makes are better at cost, or better at appearance, or more reliable....
Toyota engineers should really should do a focus group with technicians like you prior to developing a new engine.
Which would add more cost for Toyota... not likely to happen 😊
Engineers don't design engines based on their own wishes and experience. They design based on Marketing's requirements. Fullfilling those requirements commonly requires irrational ideas.
@@PrOrHoexactly. The company doesn’t care if they’re not making money. Also some engineers don’t know what it’s like to have to fix stuff
You think they don't have smart engineer/mechanics? All this is done on purpose to save cost during manufacturing. They don't make money making mechanic lives easier 🤦
@@mj8495
Having a vehicle designed for ease of serviceability would be a huge selling point for buyers looking for a forever car
I thought the starter motor on the tundra's were bad, ha! Having done Shotokan Karate with a Japanese man many years in Miami, I have come to appreciate the Japanese culture and thought process. Looking into other aspects of their culture you see just how thoughtful and creative they are. Example in Japanese gardens when the garden architect or planner has the beauty laid out low in small shrubs or rocks or other low lying things the stepping stones on the path gradually become smaller and less flat more irregular so your footing is slightly unsettled and you naturally lower your eyes. The oposite is true when the beauty is higher the stepping stones become larger and flat. This brings your vision to the area the garden planner wants you to see and enjoy. You are going over a pond on a foot bridge and there is an unexplained "Z" pattern where you have to slow down and turn and walk a short distance the turn again etc. once again it is there to slow you down and give you the opportunity to look around and find the water below and enjoy the fish etc. Japanese flower arrangement, Food prep and presentation, interior design etc. etc. this is a very old culture, very thoughtful people. THEN, THEN you have a starter motor that cost $2000 in labor because it is way in the back inside the engine or worse what you just showed us. Wow! They should be ashamed, these engineers have let thousands of years of culture and heritage down. There is a not so advanced Kata, "Hiean Godan" where the angle of the arm is such that you have to think of a drop of water slowly running down from you shoulder and dropping out between your two knuckles. There is very little of any of that in some of these designs it is truly shameful and looking at the thousands of years of Japanese culture, very UN- Japanese.
Some bmws have the starter motor in the transmission, Having it the intake is far easier by comparison
I had a late model Camry that had a piece of a cell phone mount that fell down in the center vents causing major issues. Had to stick a camera down in to verify the issue. People, please don't attach things to your HVAC vents, no cell phone mounts, no air fresheners, no nothing. It's just too costly when something breaks like this.
It would be cool to see disassembly of the HVAC unit itself. For those curious like me…I think a video of it would be great!
Things that I saw that broke the blend doors. Coins, broken glass, clips from air fresheners, and loose screws.
Not a big fan of auto temp control. It just seems like sure-fire way to shorten the life of the servos. I keep mine in manual.
My car turns 30 next year and the climate air works just fine.
I'm in awe of your commitment to customer service and your expertise and your willingness to generously share it with us! Thank you.
Throwing left over bolts and screws that's how I fix most of my
old cars. Thank you for you dedication during this. You are truly a trooper !
I was a gasoline and diesel tech for many years and in the 80's when they started using electronics (not well) I decided to go to college to be smarter thinking they are the folks that will get paid the most. I was correct but I decided it was easier to work as a BSEE than a tech and the engineers looked down on techs not all but many of them. I have worked with all the engineering disciplines over many years and most couldn't keep a job as a tech and many would never get hired. In a perfect world they should work together as they did in Detroit in the 1950 and 60s. The techs were called method engineers and would review the engineers designs for sanity albeit many times the bean counters had more influence with management. Remember everyone reports to someone regardless of position or rank. When Henry Ford made his first model Ts they were so good that he found out they were not selling any parts such as tie rods etc. He made them stop producing parts that were so long lasting again it is about money. Every decision that has been ever made can almost always be traced back to MONEY and it hasn't changed in my 75 years if anything it is worse now and will probably continue. I expect car manufacturers will start reducing their warrantees down from three years and 36000 miles for most of them until eventually it will be like buying a toaster and get a one year warranty. I am an old man and we get very cynical as we age but mark my words and I am on the record.
I love the way You Think Sir ! While Youre in there . . . . It saves money for the customer in the long run
Boy o boy, now this is a project for sure. It's is exactly like you say, you must take great care taking all this "stuff" apart, bagging and marking the fasteners/clips, etc, take pictures also. There is no way you could get this back together write if you are sloppy taking it apart. I just can't imagine trying to do this job for the first time and getting it right. I was glad to hear that you are replacing the heater core while inside, don't leave anything to chance. Anyway of taking that assembly apart, perhaps finding the thing that fell inside jamming the actuator. I know you said it doesn't come apart but you are replacing the assembly so it doesn't really matter if you break that lovely plastic to get at the culprit. I can only imagine all the dealer techs calling out sick when this job rolls in. God bless you CCN for taking the time and care to do this job the way you would want it done in your own car....
Haha, as an engineer with previous technician background. I can tell you it's not the engineers. It's those business people that keep kicking us to make it cheaper.
Kick the accounts back and tell them it will cost sales in the long run as soon as the word gets out on how much it will cost to replace an inaccessible part on the car!
I too went from the tools to a design manufacturing/fabrication environment and concur.
A servo motor went out in my 2007 Tundra and something jammed up the white plastic gear bad enough to snap the white plastic, my Toyota mechanic was able to repair the white plastic part using a hot wire weld and then he replaced the servo. All is well.
I can't believe this. Those who designed this have lost their minds. And of course they don't care because the bill will be passed on to the owner of the vehicle.
I attended a GM tech school in the mid 80's. The Instructor said his normal job was looking at the placement of various parts and systems. He said they would see how hard or easy it would be for a tech to service, disassemble, reassemble. He said we win some and loose some. All of us agreed they lost more than won.
My 06 Frontier needed a new recirc motor. Out came the entire dash. While out, I replaced the recirc motor, air mix (hot/cold)motor, cleaned the reason why the recirc door was binding, made sure other doors operated smoothly and reassembled everything. I used the green masking tape method. Wrap the tape around screws and ID their location. Same for nuts, other hardware and both sides of the electrical connectors. Takes longer, saves time and patience with reassembly.
Same with my wife's 06 Sorento. The Kia also got a new evaporator and heater core.
Both were completed at home in my garage.
I've done several Ford trucks and one Escort at work in the past. No one else in the shop wanted to do them. They all took time.
Except for one Ford Truck, all the other vehicles worked as designed with no problems on startup. That truck had a bad A/C compressor unknown to me. Yes I fixed it.
Green tape, take your time, replace parts in those assemblies that WILL break soon.
Why change working parts? "I do the job ONCE, so I don't have to do it over or again!"
Thank you AMD for this video.
Oh my goodness, you must have the patience of Job .
How about a choke cable and knob for good old fashioned operation.
Got to love the engineers that never touch what they design when it breaks. We put up a dart board in the shop with their pictures on it.
Seriously? You made it sound as if they do NOT do ANY testing or if even if they do test, that nothing ever breaks.... Lets suppose they do test, and something does break, then what, the engineers just go, "not my problem" and "never touch what they designed when it breaks"?
@@minienigma I'll do the same. Seriously? Do you deal with this stuff on a daily bases? Yes, I'm serious. Why design a access hole too small for a valve to fit through after it's unbolted? Why locate a switch or drive motor in a place were the switch is longer than the room given to remove it? Why put a two hand to loosen connector in a one hand space? Why use off the wall hardware you need to buy special tools for? In the case of the Lexus and most every modern car out there, why design it were most of the car needs to be torn apart to do something simple. I may not work on cars very often but I do work on other specialized products with the same problems. One little bad sensor mounted on the side against all the structure when it would take 5 minutes to change it were located a inch different. Besides, a engineer told me some of his co hearts think like that and he wastes time worrying about us mechanics having to fix it quick.
I love your commitment to doing only high quality work and your attention to detail. Its rare these days.
Hi AMD, would love to see how an expert like you does a coolant exchange on a 2GR-FKS. They don't have top bleeder valves like the old 2GR does.
Wow! Insane in the membrane. You are the king of Buyer Beware and Be Informed! Like many UA-camrs you are a gem
My grandpa would have loved your channel. He was a second generation mechanic and he used to say a lot of the same things you say today.
I love your content, sir.
the engineers never set one foot in the shop
Its 14 years old. In BMW X5 (diect competitor to RX Lexus) its common to pull the dash out like this on 5 year old cars to replace evaporator. Lexus may not be perfect but they are a lot more serviceable than the European competitors.
Thank you for taking the time to educate us. Your are a true blessing!
Cars (and many other things like mobile phones, laptops etc) should be easily repairable by design. The automotive industry should hire this guy for a review of the engineering principles, it would be a huge value for the brand.
Rip vent out. Reach in with your hand, and move the flap. Easy. Is it elegant? No. Does it work? Yes. These electronic control systems are a nightmare when they break. Remember the three-knob setups? Ever had one of those break?
Thank you for explaining the various aspects of this issue. 🙂
You forgot to say how much it all cost (Parts, labor).
You might run away screaming when you hear the price
Just a guess 2,900 parts and labor.
That amount of disassembling reminds me of when I had to change the heater core in my 1986 Taurus. Same thing, right to the firewall.
A fascinating video. Thanks for posting.
Really appreciate your attention to detail. Hate it when folks leave out washers.
Just knowing the sequence of how that goes back together....
You are a fine mechanic.
Mechanics exist because engineers need heroes too! FACT
Very smart man I'm always amazed on the work he does
That square cut out area to the right of the expansion valve at 14:47 is for the immobilizer computer for some models. Of course they make it difficult to get to for good reason, but the labor is the same.
You're the best Ahmed. Knowledgeable, highly skilled, generous of spirit and a great communicator. Thank you 🙏
Maybe a screen over the defrost to keep out junk👍
Great idea! Why didn't Toyota think of it?
@@johngaither9263 Because it will get clogged with dirt over time, then you'll see a video about having to rip up the whole dash to clean a screen.
@@ashyu_ The cabin filter stops that.
If you go to a tractor auction the pre emission -computer tractors are the most desirable. Everything today is over engineered and planned to fail !
It only has to last as long as the warranty, after that you PAY $$$$!!!
AMD your sheer skill and expertise and integrity are always amazing to me. Your videos are profoundly informative and I enjoy watching them thank you for all you do and Jose thank you for all your work to young man!
Simplest explanation, they are bloody tired when designing it and the back to auto mode of saving space is always the good solution
Off topic: I’ve got 70,000 miles on my Mazda CX-5. And I have To say that so far it’s been a total pleasure to own and drive this vehicle each and every day. After having driven Toyota/Honda products my entire life, I believe I’m a Mazda guy from here on out. More bang for the buck as well. Zoom Zoom!
you are saying that if you are buying new a Mazda will be less than a Toyota?
@@makeitpay8241
Comparatively, yes.
I never understood the concept of DUAL CLIMATE ZONE. You have two people within one or two feet of each other requesting different temperatures. How is that efficient?
It isn't about efficiency... it is about selling features for couples with different temperatures 😊
This job requires a well experienced mechanic with patience in taking the whole unit out. Thank you AMD for a detail explanation of the engineer issue with bad design.
YOUR LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE IS AMAZING.
A True Professional !!!
This guy is super knowledgeable. Nothing but respect.
you're a good mechanic & you take good decisons sir☝👍
ICE engines (& ICE vehicles in-general) were ruined when the pursuit of absolute maximum fuel economy to meet various regulations resulted in 100% direct-injection (carbon sludge) engines, small-displacement GDI turbo economy engines, start/stop engine tech, cylinder-deactivation engine tech, & belt/chain design CVT transmissions. Good luck finding any new ICE vehicle today with none of that garbage.
The 24 4R is about it and it’s getting replaced soon.
A bore scope is helpful if you have one
You are exactly correct about things getting into the HVAC assembly and jamming doors. In my experience it is mice bringing nuts and or nesting material into there. It's about 80% of the time it's mice. Toyota needs to block off the fresh air intake with wire mesh to keep them out. I do it on every Corolla and RAV4 if my customers have evidence of mice in their cars.
You rock Ahmed!! Bless you for sharing your knowledge and skill in easy to understand language.
Not even half a mechanic. But this guy explains stuff in such a way that I kind of understand it.
Heater/ evaporator core asking to be replaced
One word........WOW!!!
This is why I keep my vents on defrost at all times. When inevitably the actuator fails, as long as my heat and AC still work I don't have to mess with it. I wouldn't be surprised if the cost of this repair was more than half the value of the car.
You are a one of a kind.
Why are there not more of you?
Thank you for sharing this disaster and your master mechanic solution.
For those engineers you speak of, to make things easy for you and us might cut into the bottom line profits for the CEO's and the stock investors.
To replace the clock lightbulb I need to take off half the dashboard. Honda Odyssey 2001. Nightmare SUV.
Sounds like another feature when designer hated her manager? A previous winner was the installation of car battery inside the front wheel well.
How much would that job be at a dealer?
What a level of dedication and commitment! Fully therally explained!
I heard that amazon used to trained their engineers by placing them on support job. Same practice can be useful for car engineers.
…of all the places to put that bolt!…
What was the final bill for this project?
Amed said it was on the house because he made a youtube video of it.
One arm, one leg, and a grandkid. 😮
I love it when you put these issues on multi media. everything other than engine and gear box is compromised, sound systems, seats,, infortainment systems sunroofs, air conditioning, cooling systems, suspension, window winders. Make you think they do much for services or longivity.
You're amazing. See you in a couple weeks for my upcoming Trans Fluid service, and Engine and Hybrid Converter Coolant service.
Lets see the tear down !
Getting the middle finger from Toyota engineers.
I am a nearly 50 years hard core home shop DIY mechanic, and I've done a couple of dashboard strip downs to work on the HVAC systems. I can't speak for Lexus, but on American cars I figured out how to change it from a 3 day long nightmare to a more manageable 1 day out and in and done job. I don't know if this in any of the factory service training, but I realized that the entire dashboard including the steering wheel and upper column can be removed as a complete assembly and then placed on a work bench for easier servicing - vs. disassembling the entire dashboard into pieces inside the car. Here is my basic outline besides the obvious stuff: 1) remove the drivers seat 2) remove the pinch bolt attaching the intermediate steering shaft to the upper steering column and drop the intermediate steering shaft out of the way. 3) unplug the approximately 5 or 6 or 7 dashboard wiring harness connectors including the one that goes through the firewall on the driver side. 4) there are usually about 8 or 10 bolts that attach this complete loaded dashboard assembly to the car 5) get a helper because the dash assembly is heavy and an awkward shape and pull the entire dash assembly WITHOUT separately removing the steering wheel, upper column, air bags, sound system, HVAC controls etc. etc. 6) place this entire dashboard assembly on your workbench. More or less it takes 2+ hours to get the complete dashboard assembly out, then a solid hour changing out all the various actuators, then a solid 2 hours reinstalling. Best part is you still get to charge the 18 or 22 hours (or more) that the flat rate guide allows for labor.
It's not just the car industry that has this problem. Many,many years ago, when I worked for a company that made products for the DOD and unit would be assembled and you'd get to a point that the final screw to finish the assembly could not be installed. There was no access. The design engineer was call down from the top floor and see what the problem was. Many a time, he would ask me how to solve the situation. Maybe an access hole or a slide panel would work. It made me feel so good that he would ask me for a suggestion.
There is a Toyota tech named Omar who parts shotgun every car he has to do a diagnostic on. Beware people make sure he doesn’t work on your car or you’ll keep having problems.
I heard this guy named Alberto is really gay he likes to suck on customers shift knobs before returning the vehicle back to the customer.
Alberto also said he would suck CCN pee pee