3.19 completely threw me off mining. You used to be able to mine every rock and the good ones with quantanium could be told by the texture and the RS signature. Now its complete RNG. the different rocks types hardly matter, you cant visually tell if the rock will have what you want, even if you find a good rock its RNG if its the right size. I can make 400k/hr in a ROC, I cant come close to that in a prospector. Its a complete joke.
I want mining to go away from a mission system to more of a discovery of coordinates that you may acquire from an NPC or even a player that may give you a rough location to a mining site to do further scanning. once the major overhauled to scanning is done. I think they mentioned Quantum probes, and then mining would make more sense just how they have it in Eve online. Salvaging needs to get to a point players have to take more time cutting and slicing a ship and possibly having to go in and turn off a fuel line or extract fuel so the ship doesn't blow up during salvaging. this disintegration feature really needs to go bye-bye. makes that whole gameplay Loop way too easy.
I don't do enough mining or salvage to call myself a miner or salvager but the main thing I want to mention that affects every aspect of the game (especially industrial gameplay) that I really want to be a focus is "rock, paper, scissors". There really should be several ways to skin the cat. I hate games or game loops that have a meta tied to it. The problem with meta gameplay is all it takes is a small amount of practice and a really decent youtube video, and you are already a master at something. Kinda like what Red was saying in regards to creating refining processes for yourself. There should never be the right way of doing something. Fine tuning and finding A method for doing a particular process that works well for you may not work well for someone else but is okay because you took the time to refine your own process. Just as they took the time to refine their own process. One may or may not be slightly better than the other but that is okay because this was achieved through literal thousands of hours of refining and tuning to get to this knowledge. Skill and time are what shape the method. If there is a quantum drive that can do x,y,z but all the others can only do x and y, then why would anyone ever want any other drive? Having gives and takes are what will ultimately help shape SC's economy into what they are wanting it to be. So I say all of this to say, this is where I hope CIG focuses their attention this year, as far as industrial gameplay and really all gameplay, to get the game to a balanced state. I know this is an undertaking, but Balance and stability will ultimately help this game reach the level it is seeking to achieve. Thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope I made sense.
*Elemental deposits of different quality makes no sense* Tin is tin after all. What should affect material quality is the refining process. A good process resulting in purer material, e.g. higher quality. Likewise, some post-processing into bars, wire, whatever, should also affect product quality.
Ships that can break apart based on stress and many other factors. Why not Rocks doing the same? Why can't I cut off the side of a rock that is all inert material, or focus a harmonic beam at a fracture seam of a rock? 3D scanned Rocks too. Do it!
so i like hauling thats my thing being able to head out to player mining outposts and load up then haul to where they want in a contract will be cool and that gos for ships ground vehicles etc
the pure insult that misc ships are ugly ,how dare he !!🤔 misc is my fav ship designer (altho some do need some gold standart like the freelancer etc ) i love my hull-c that has been broken for over a year now the only issue is the servers.
While I admit I use redmonsters tools, the lack of information from devs I don’t find to be a bad thing. I’ve played MMOs for 25 years, the most fun I’ve had in any of them were the periods of time that they weren’t data mined to crap and everyone was learning. If it’s there I’ll use it, but man I wish the learning stages lasted longer on newer games.
@ the benefit to player refineries in eve was that there basically were none in most areas of 0.0. Even if they were much less efficient, they made 45 jump trips back into 3 jump trips. A worthwhile trade. It should be similar here. Player refineries ever being more efficient than stanton refineries is stupid.
The changes I hope they make to mining is, you can extract from any rock, but you gotta take all the chaff/garbage you don't necessarily want like inert materials. Currently extraction power is a useless stat, to the point there isn't even a reason for it to be in the game, and there's zero difference between Size 1 and Size 2 mining heads for the size of the fragment you can extract from. Fracturing a rock should be something you do to make the extraction more profitable, not to allow you to extract from it at all.
it wouldnt surprise me if that reputation stuff spacemonkey talked about for refineries is already in the works, based on the weird cosmetic trespassing bug around some of stanton's lagrange stations. i reckon theres some new code thats mostly turned off and collecting data for stuff like this
ROC Mining for me its been great, I dont like salvage on a vulture, but i spent some time sslvaging with the multitool, you dont make money whatsoever but for some reason its so satisfying, if a see a ship or panel floating around I stop and get that rmc with the multitool, I just hope they would integrate this more to the economy.
I dont think those are cargo grids on the MMISC Fortune. They look more like refineries inside an internal compartment with windows, like on the Vulture.
I really wish SC would get started on an API like ED has. That way third party apps could access the data and make it available to the users. The community will always do a better job for tooling than the devs.
This discussion made me overthink the whole quality aspect of the materials, and the way they are stated to be implemented seem a bit odd to be honest. Wouldn’t it make way more sense to differentiate between ore quality and material quality? As in (similar to now) the ore quality only determines how much of a given resource can be extracted from the given amount of ore during refining. And the quality of the resource that has been extracted by refining would be determined by the refining method. So, for example refining 1 SCU of high-quality gold ore could yield 0.5 SCU of high-quality gold or 0.7 SCU of low-quality gold. And 1 SCU of low-quality gold ore could yield 0.2 SCU of high-quality gold or 0.5 SCU of low-quality gold. This would make the refining step way more interesting and at the same time allow for more diverse mining experiences. Like let’s say high-quality gold ore could be harder to reach and only spawn in smaller pockets (lore wise maybe because all the good large deposits have long been mined), these would be perfect for small ships. But there could be still a lot larger ore deposits, but of lower quality and therefore only profitable if mined in larger quantities, by larger ships. By splitting ore quality from refined quality, both types of ore could still be used to gain any quality processed material. Now how to make high-quality refined materials sparse and valuable? Make them require more advanced and costly (catalysts/time) refining blueprints to refine. Also, it would make a lot more sense to have refining blueprints for specific resources, this would make it possible for there to be someone whose best at reefing gold, or best at refining copper or iron. Would love to hear your opinion on this
sellable markers would cause a lot of issues, you need an in game player reputation system to go along with it, otherwise the scammers would be going crazy with it. I.E. anyone want to buy the location to a 150k mass quant rock? 100k, sure, then you arrive and nothing there. Without being able to leave the seller a poor review, this would be heavily abused. I believe this is why we havent seen this yet, because it needs other systems to support it. 13 years in, you would think they would have more social features in game, including working parties, orgs, etc, but here we are.....server meshing right?
Actually, they did illogical distributions on purpose. They wanted players flying around all day for the simplest of tasks. Just because there was not that much content and not have everyone at one place.
"state of industry" video with the Odyssey as the thumbnail. A ship who's concept was sold years ago and it still isn't even being worked on. SC has kind of just become a joke to me now.
@AnswerTheCallSC think of the people who gave feedback on dogfighting before being ignored over master modes. And why the passive aggressive comment? Is this because of that time I called you out about calling people "plebs"?
Hey. Thanks for the Regolith shoutout! Great episode overall too.
eye infection === hangover
found the programmer (===)
@@hamzakharal8276 !false
Pink eye
3.19 completely threw me off mining. You used to be able to mine every rock and the good ones with quantanium could be told by the texture and the RS signature.
Now its complete RNG. the different rocks types hardly matter, you cant visually tell if the rock will have what you want, even if you find a good rock its RNG if its the right size. I can make 400k/hr in a ROC, I cant come close to that in a prospector. Its a complete joke.
Cool, Red Monster I need a lot of help learning how to mine in Star Citizen. Thanks for having him on Salt.
what tool where they talking about of that guy raychaser ? could not hear it
HTTPS:\
egolith.rocks
@@AnswerTheCallSC Yup. That's the one.
56:35 I think the Fortune will lower salvage capacity, as in only having one salvage head, but more cargo and / or buffer capacity.
I want mining to go away from a mission system to more of a discovery of coordinates that you may acquire from an NPC or even a player that may give you a rough location to a mining site to do further scanning. once the major overhauled to scanning is done. I think they mentioned Quantum probes, and then mining would make more sense just how they have it in Eve online. Salvaging needs to get to a point players have to take more time cutting and slicing a ship and possibly having to go in and turn off a fuel line or extract fuel so the ship doesn't blow up during salvaging. this disintegration feature really needs to go bye-bye. makes that whole gameplay Loop way too easy.
JESUS. Who else is Red gonna be featured by this week? Guy is out here doing WORK preaching about industrial SC.
Great epi as always. Just wanted to let Croncy know he is always missed :D
A Salty Monster show!!!
or a monster salty show?
I don't do enough mining or salvage to call myself a miner or salvager but the main thing I want to mention that affects every aspect of the game (especially industrial gameplay) that I really want to be a focus is "rock, paper, scissors". There really should be several ways to skin the cat. I hate games or game loops that have a meta tied to it. The problem with meta gameplay is all it takes is a small amount of practice and a really decent youtube video, and you are already a master at something. Kinda like what Red was saying in regards to creating refining processes for yourself. There should never be the right way of doing something. Fine tuning and finding A method for doing a particular process that works well for you may not work well for someone else but is okay because you took the time to refine your own process. Just as they took the time to refine their own process. One may or may not be slightly better than the other but that is okay because this was achieved through literal thousands of hours of refining and tuning to get to this knowledge. Skill and time are what shape the method. If there is a quantum drive that can do x,y,z but all the others can only do x and y, then why would anyone ever want any other drive? Having gives and takes are what will ultimately help shape SC's economy into what they are wanting it to be. So I say all of this to say, this is where I hope CIG focuses their attention this year, as far as industrial gameplay and really all gameplay, to get the game to a balanced state. I know this is an undertaking, but Balance and stability will ultimately help this game reach the level it is seeking to achieve. Thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope I made sense.
Resume @38:00
Hm. If inert material plays into the grade of material, that could make the module that reduces the amount of inert material VERY valuable
*Elemental deposits of different quality makes no sense*
Tin is tin after all.
What should affect material quality is the refining process.
A good process resulting in purer material, e.g. higher quality.
Likewise, some post-processing into bars, wire, whatever, should also affect product quality.
Ships that can break apart based on stress and many other factors.
Why not Rocks doing the same?
Why can't I cut off the side of a rock that is all inert material, or focus a harmonic beam at a fracture seam of a rock? 3D scanned Rocks too. Do it!
so i like hauling thats my thing being able to head out to player mining outposts and load up then haul to where they want in a contract will be cool and that gos for ships ground vehicles etc
the pure insult that misc ships are ugly ,how dare he !!🤔 misc is my fav ship designer (altho some do need some gold standart like the freelancer etc ) i love my hull-c that has been broken for over a year now the only issue is the servers.
Starlancer is awesome.
They aren't my favorite but I don't think they are ugly. I like some of the space boats xd
MISC/Mirai will always be my favorite manufacturers
While I admit I use redmonsters tools, the lack of information from devs I don’t find to be a bad thing. I’ve played MMOs for 25 years, the most fun I’ve had in any of them were the periods of time that they weren’t data mined to crap and everyone was learning.
If it’s there I’ll use it, but man I wish the learning stages lasted longer on newer games.
Thanks to you both for this
Oh no, you have to actually explore to find mining deposits!?! The horror…
Feel better Croncy, you are handsome.
player refineries being better than established ones is stupid and unrealistic.
unrealistic yes, but makes gameplay sense. The game needs to have mechanics that encouraged player to player interactions.
@ the benefit to player refineries in eve was that there basically were none in most areas of 0.0. Even if they were much less efficient, they made 45 jump trips back into 3 jump trips. A worthwhile trade. It should be similar here. Player refineries ever being more efficient than stanton refineries is stupid.
Ship mining shouldn't be 100% easy and guaranteed.
mby add a spectrum ingame where ppl can share info about different "jobs" areas ( a kin what is described in the lore)
Hi from Hawaii 🏝️
Salty Voldemort and red monster thanks for sharing 🪐
The changes I hope they make to mining is, you can extract from any rock, but you gotta take all the chaff/garbage you don't necessarily want like inert materials. Currently extraction power is a useless stat, to the point there isn't even a reason for it to be in the game, and there's zero difference between Size 1 and Size 2 mining heads for the size of the fragment you can extract from. Fracturing a rock should be something you do to make the extraction more profitable, not to allow you to extract from it at all.
it wouldnt surprise me if that reputation stuff spacemonkey talked about for refineries is already in the works, based on the weird cosmetic trespassing bug around some of stanton's lagrange stations. i reckon theres some new code thats mostly turned off and collecting data for stuff like this
Ok but wouldn't. Prospecting be a game loop. A. Exploration game play loop, it would make sense to me anyway
Where's your favorite place to mine? asking for a friend.
ROC Mining for me its been great, I dont like salvage on a vulture, but i spent some time sslvaging with the multitool, you dont make money whatsoever but for some reason its so satisfying, if a see a ship or panel floating around I stop and get that rmc with the multitool, I just hope they would integrate this more to the economy.
I dont think those are cargo grids on the MMISC Fortune. They look more like refineries inside an internal compartment with windows, like on the Vulture.
I really wish SC would get started on an API like ED has. That way third party apps could access the data and make it available to the users. The community will always do a better job for tooling than the devs.
Pinkeye zombie? I hope he gets better soon.
This discussion made me overthink the whole quality aspect of the materials, and the way they are stated to be implemented seem a bit odd to be honest.
Wouldn’t it make way more sense to differentiate between ore quality and material quality? As in (similar to now) the ore quality only determines how much of a given resource can be extracted from the given amount of ore during refining. And the quality of the resource that has been extracted by refining would be determined by the refining method.
So, for example refining 1 SCU of high-quality gold ore could yield 0.5 SCU of high-quality gold or 0.7 SCU of low-quality gold. And 1 SCU of low-quality gold ore could yield 0.2 SCU of high-quality gold or 0.5 SCU of low-quality gold. This would make the refining step way more interesting and at the same time allow for more diverse mining experiences. Like let’s say high-quality gold ore could be harder to reach and only spawn in smaller pockets (lore wise maybe because all the good large deposits have long been mined), these would be perfect for small ships. But there could be still a lot larger ore deposits, but of lower quality and therefore only profitable if mined in larger quantities, by larger ships. By splitting ore quality from refined quality, both types of ore could still be used to gain any quality processed material.
Now how to make high-quality refined materials sparse and valuable? Make them require more advanced and costly (catalysts/time) refining blueprints to refine. Also, it would make a lot more sense to have refining blueprints for specific resources, this would make it possible for there to be someone whose best at reefing gold, or best at refining copper or iron.
Would love to hear your opinion on this
RIP crankle
The constant Discord notification sound.... please mute it during podcasts lol
This drove me insane. I kept checking my own discord lol
sellable markers would cause a lot of issues, you need an in game player reputation system to go along with it, otherwise the scammers would be going crazy with it. I.E. anyone want to buy the location to a 150k mass quant rock? 100k, sure, then you arrive and nothing there. Without being able to leave the seller a poor review, this would be heavily abused. I believe this is why we havent seen this yet, because it needs other systems to support it. 13 years in, you would think they would have more social features in game, including working parties, orgs, etc, but here we are.....server meshing right?
Actually, they did illogical distributions on purpose.
They wanted players flying around all day for the simplest of tasks.
Just because there was not that much content and not have everyone at one place.
Too much risk for not enough reward although i'll keep mining. It's just chill.
Ah I remember the days when EVE wasn't pay to win... miss those days...
So what you’re saying is just not have exploring in the game so you can follow a guide on some 3rd party website.
"Mining data" "salvage" okay I'm out.
They can't release the Galaxy without refining.
Why not? They released plenty of other ships without their features.
Yea all the data running/explorer ships say otherwise lol
The "misc fortune kills the vulture" is as dumb as "the RAV4 kills the CR-V" or "bloodborne kills dark souls" more things is good full stop.
"state of industry" video with the Odyssey as the thumbnail. A ship who's concept was sold years ago and it still isn't even being worked on. SC has kind of just become a joke to me now.
Any mining, industry, construction in the game now is effectively placeholder, so why worry? It will change completely again soon I'm sure.
So what you are saying is...dont give feedback during the feedback phase...got it
@AnswerTheCallSC think of the people who gave feedback on dogfighting before being ignored over master modes. And why the passive aggressive comment? Is this because of that time I called you out about calling people "plebs"?
@@unblessedcoffee1457 He's very passive aggressive constantly
Pink eye? Not cool