Super cool to hear the discussion on different keys. Do you have the other radio broadcasts, Anti Alea, Strauss, and On Competition? Will you be able to post them at some point, and if not, is there anyway I could get a link to listen to them? Thanks.
Anti Alea and the Strauss documentaries I can post soon. But I don't know which one you mean by 'On Competition'. Can you give me some more clues? Bruce
What surprises in the discussion between Gould and James Kent about keys is that they both gloriously miss the point: Bach's Wohltemperiert does NOT mean Equal Temperament at all! So that's why in Bach's time you could easily distinguish different keys because the scales they produced were not the same. This is what the great scholar Malcolm Boyd has to say about it: " The term 'well-tempered' in Bach's title need not be taken as indicating our modern temperament in which all twelve semitones in the octave are equal. Bach's contemporaries were reluctant to abandon what his pupil Johann Philipp Kirnberger once referred to as 'the variegation of the keys', and several irregular 'well-tempered' tunings were proposed, including a particularly influential one by the organist and theorist, Andreas Werckmeister. Bach may have been influenced by Werckmeister's ideas (not only about temperaments), but his preferred tuning was probably nearer one proposed by the Italian composer and theorist, Francesco Antonio Vallotti". And nearer to us, Bradley Lehman has proposed a tuning deduced from the convoluted figure that adorns the title page of Book 1 of the WTC! See www.larips.com/ for more details.
1. This was not well known in the 1900s, in fact many newer books on Bach also believe it is equal temperament. To be honest, there is no 100% proof Bach did not disprove of equal temperament but it is likely. 2. Key colors are evident even in equal temperament.
Sarabande from overture in the french style is C sharp minor first time, c minor second time (not, as the subtitles or the interview claim, c minor then b minor). Possibly broadcast is pitch shifted by 100 cents? Edit: Broadcast is 100 cents higher, Beethoven's fifth sounds in c sharp
Thank you. The Berg is something special. Considering all the tedious Bach playing there is out there, any smack about GG's performances of Bach unavoidably comes off just self important or 'academic', or both, like one of the characters Gould satirizes in his skits. However, the wealth of good performances on the internet these days does seem to have almost made inferior recordings of Classical music a thing of the past.
There's a big selection of new classical music, true. But the editing can sometimes leave a lot to be desired. Gould edited his own recordings; his meticulous care is evident and unsurpassed.
Plenty of good performances today but so many of them marred by imprecise technicalities. Lack of multiple takes, editors who maybe don't have the time to care deeply about every note . . . There is plenty of "music" to listen to, but not many recordings that are masterpieces in their own right as Gould's are.
In sixty something years of listening to Gould's Bach, I finally now am able to be completely satisfied with his renderings without having to resort to analytical cross-listenings with other performers. There simply is no other artist needed, for Bach, in my opinion. In Gould's recordings, you have perfection of execution, at least. And taste-wise, I couldn't be happier. All you pedal-happy players, bye bye!
@@drvonkrankmeister8094 Sir Nigel Twitte-Thornwaite agrees! Actually he insists, there are none as masterful as Gould's. The reason they could not care deeply about every note, is they could never play as technically precise as Gould. He was a never to be bested technician, that is certain!
Yes, you are right! And it is not in B minor, either. I suppose he was thinking of 'Es ist vollbracht', the Alto aria in B minor from the St John Passion. This seems to fit the context.
@@brucecross1164 yeah! I mean, it's called 'echo' and he doesnt echo! What's more annoying is that in the TV program Gould recorded called 'the question of instrument', he even remarks, using the italian concerto as an example, how he wouldnt want to mess with bach's (not-often) written dynamics, and it just blows my mind I can never find French overture without him just flat out ignoring the dynamics in the echo that lend it its name !!! For contrast, I recommend Evgeni koroliev's version. He does an amazing job with the dynamics there.
@@samanthayork3125 I don't find really interesting Bach on the piano except with Glenn Gould. Because if you want to really hear Bach, there is Leonhardt, or Koopman, playing on period instruments and knowing about the style. Glenn Gould it's a different thing than just Bach on a piano. But I understand the point of view of piano fanatics. I come from the early music, so my point of view differs from how a modern instrumentalist would measure a good or not good interpretation.
@@classicalemotion But keep in mind: Bach (and so many others, especially Beethoven) would have gone nuts to have the modern grand piano. Not knocking early instruments; I love them too. Just saying that earlier composers would have flipped to have such an instrument. After all, Bach had an organ to play; much larger even than the grand piano, and you can be sure he loved it! He even re-worked violin pieces for the organ. Of all composers, Bach is the most malleable, and deservedly so.
Canada is proud to have Gould as a wonderful musician
The more I listen to this man the greater my appreciation. Truly great. Inexpressible transported by his work..
oh my god, finally a live recording of Glenn playing a Brahms Intermezzi. It is very similar to his legendary studio recording.
It's playing like this that made me a GG fan all those years ago.
Thank you for your rich, interesting, eccentric and beautiful beautiful content.
Thanks for sharing this precious content!
grazie
Super cool to hear the discussion on different keys. Do you have the other radio broadcasts, Anti Alea, Strauss, and On Competition? Will you be able to post them at some point, and if not, is there anyway I could get a link to listen to them? Thanks.
Anti Alea and the Strauss documentaries I can post soon. But I don't know which one you mean by 'On Competition'. Can you give me some more clues? Bruce
@@brucecross1164 perhaps the writer means the essay "We Who Are About to be Disqualified Salute You!"?
@@brucecross1164 There's an interview/essay he did on sports.
Yes, indeed. I have posted it here: ua-cam.com/video/TVf40oKpy18/v-deo.html
What surprises in the discussion between Gould and James Kent about keys is that they both gloriously miss the point: Bach's Wohltemperiert does NOT mean Equal Temperament at all! So that's why in Bach's time you could easily distinguish different keys because the scales they produced were not the same. This is what the great scholar Malcolm Boyd has to say about it: " The term 'well-tempered' in Bach's title need not be taken as indicating our modern temperament in which all twelve semitones in the octave are equal. Bach's contemporaries were reluctant to abandon what his pupil Johann Philipp Kirnberger once referred to as 'the variegation of the keys', and several irregular 'well-tempered' tunings were proposed, including a particularly influential one by the organist and theorist, Andreas Werckmeister. Bach may have been influenced by Werckmeister's ideas (not only about temperaments), but his preferred tuning was probably nearer one proposed by the Italian composer and theorist, Francesco Antonio Vallotti". And nearer to us, Bradley Lehman has proposed a tuning deduced from the convoluted figure that adorns the title page of Book 1 of the WTC! See www.larips.com/ for more details.
1. This was not well known in the 1900s, in fact many newer books on Bach also believe it is equal temperament. To be honest, there is no 100% proof Bach did not disprove of equal temperament but it is likely.
2. Key colors are evident even in equal temperament.
Glenn Gould, Arthur Rubinstein, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Bill Evans, Thelonious Monk, nobody else in the universe and over the universe.
Sarabande from overture in the french style is C sharp minor first time, c minor second time (not, as the subtitles or the interview claim, c minor then b minor). Possibly broadcast is pitch shifted by 100 cents?
Edit: Broadcast is 100 cents higher, Beethoven's fifth sounds in c sharp
Thank you. The Berg is something special. Considering all the tedious Bach playing there is out there, any smack about GG's performances of Bach unavoidably comes off just self important or 'academic', or both, like one of the characters Gould satirizes in his skits. However, the wealth of good performances on the internet these days does seem to have almost made inferior recordings of Classical music a thing of the past.
There's a big selection of new classical music, true. But the editing can sometimes leave a lot to be desired. Gould edited his own recordings; his meticulous care is evident and unsurpassed.
Plenty of good performances today but so many of them marred by imprecise technicalities. Lack of multiple takes, editors who maybe don't have the time to care deeply about every note . . . There is plenty of "music" to listen to, but not many recordings that are masterpieces in their own right as Gould's are.
In sixty something years of listening to Gould's Bach, I finally now am able to be completely satisfied with his renderings without having to resort to analytical cross-listenings with other performers. There simply is no other artist needed, for Bach, in my opinion. In Gould's recordings, you have perfection of execution, at least. And taste-wise, I couldn't be happier. All you pedal-happy players, bye bye!
@@drvonkrankmeister8094 Sir Nigel Twitte-Thornwaite agrees! Actually he insists, there are none as masterful as Gould's. The reason they could not care deeply about every note, is they could never play as technically precise as Gould. He was a never to be bested technician, that is certain!
@@normangensler7380 So good to hear from Sir Nigel, long-term comrade and, like me, expert on everything musical.
"Es ist Genug" is in the St. John Passion? I thought it was a choral from BWV 60
Yes, you are right! And it is not in B minor, either. I suppose he was thinking of 'Es ist vollbracht', the Alto aria in B minor from the St John Passion. This seems to fit the context.
@@brucecross1164 You see. You are so goddamn precious...!
the most frustrating Echo! :( I always wonder why he plays it like that.
I've had a look at the score and now I see what you mean!
@@brucecross1164 yeah! I mean, it's called 'echo' and he doesnt echo! What's more annoying is that in the TV program Gould recorded called 'the question of instrument', he even remarks, using the italian concerto as an example, how he wouldnt want to mess with bach's (not-often) written dynamics, and it just blows my mind I can never find French overture without him just flat out ignoring the dynamics in the echo that lend it its name !!! For contrast, I recommend Evgeni koroliev's version. He does an amazing job with the dynamics there.
@@samanthayork3125 I don't find really interesting Bach on the piano except with Glenn Gould. Because if you want to really hear Bach, there is Leonhardt, or Koopman, playing on period instruments and knowing about the style. Glenn Gould it's a different thing than just Bach on a piano. But I understand the point of view of piano fanatics. I come from the early music, so my point of view differs from how a modern instrumentalist would measure a good or not good interpretation.
@@classicalemotion But keep in mind: Bach (and so many others, especially Beethoven) would have gone nuts to have the modern grand piano. Not knocking early instruments; I love them too. Just saying that earlier composers would have flipped to have such an instrument. After all, Bach had an organ to play; much larger even than the grand piano, and you can be sure he loved it! He even re-worked violin pieces for the organ. Of all composers, Bach is the most malleable, and deservedly so.
@@palladin331 yes, and how Bach would've loved modern recording tech, too!