Repeating flintlocks have to be my favorite guns, such creative designs that gunsmiths had to come up with before we had self-contained cartridges, wonder how many other designs got lost in history.
I am german, Brittas boyfriend, and german style trained metal worker ( Facharbeiter). When watching historic mechanical items, firearms, watches, measure Instruments etc., i am always astonihed, what the craftsmen of old days could do, for a modern metal worker unbelieveable.
My grandma was a Kaltoft with a direct line back to the Kaltofts mentioned in this video. He and his siblings were making these for the Kings of Denmark, Sweden and England (Charles II) and the Tsar of Russia) back in the 1600's.
This is simply fascinating. If only I could take a look at the internals... The ingenuity required to come up with something like this is quite something.
Mortimer, Lorenzoni, Cookson, all of these apparently used the same basic mechanic. I'd like to know what was the difference between them, they seem really fascinating.
That is an amazing piece of engineering. Myself, wife, son and Dad came over to the Easter weekend Joust, it was great. It was my Wife's first visit and she was impressed, the boy and my Dad have been quite a few times in the past. Anyone into the history of this green and sometimes not so pleasant land should visit.
I'm sure you've heard this at least once before. You sir, must have one of the best jobs in the UK, Europe, hell the whole world. Every man who's ever been into firearms, like me, must be envious beyond measure. The collection you're the lord and master of, must be the largest in the world. Not in just numbers, but variety. Was this a job you aspired too, or did life just steer you there by happenstance? You get to look at, touch, hold, love and even fondle guns most people didn't even know existed. You've been blessed. Yes, I admit it, I'm envious. I'm also happy for you and happy the UK seems to have found a man up to the task of caring for this collection and also sharing it with the world. Thank you sir. God bless you, assuming you have one. If not, John Moses Browning might be a good candidate.
If you could find a CAPt North's pistol they would make a great pair for a pirate captain he could claim he had marked north and south. Lovely pistol just the right size.
If you're that curious about the powder charge, perhaps sand could be an inert simulator to avoid risk and damage. Any grains of sand that don't pour out easily can just be blown out with compressed air.
I call 'em Lorenzoni, 'cause the first time I was made aware of them, was from Forgotten Weapons, and that's what Ian calls 'em. Only makers that would attempt these were the highest quality makers, else they'd just be a fancy pipe bomb.
You who have looked at alot of weapons in games might find it interesting, if you didn’t already know, that roughly this design is in the old computer RPG game ”Arcanum of steamworks and magic obscura”. Though in the game it’s called ”long range pistol”
Absolutely wonderful pistol, thank you for showing us Jonathan. Although if it is based on my experience of flintlock firing, the flint would break after the first shot haha
I cant remember what book it was, but I think it was in the Sackett series by Louis Lamor, where one of these pistols was used.. Now that I saw the crank on the left side. I recognize it.
Bacelli Lorenzoni sounds like an enticing pasta dish at a high end Italian restaurant. Apologies to Italians everywhere but that’s what Im choosing to visualize at the moment.
Thanks for another engaging video. A fantastic piece of handmade precision engineering, it must have been fabulously expensive to purchase. You might measure the size of the powder reserve shown at 7:51 with a depth micrometer and calipers, then divide that by the number of balls to get a rough idea of the powder charge per shot, assuming the reserve would be completely filled?
hi, Jonathan !!! very interesting pistol, but very dangerous too ! because the weel bolt, that take the powder and the ball, while wheel to bring them in the barrel, it can gives a spark and causing a blowup of the powder storaged in the handle magazine ...!!! in the seventeen century in italy a gunsmith of name Giacomo Berselli maked a repeating pistol like that, and another gunsmith of name Michele Lorenzoni maked several rifles the same than pistol ! good video like everytime bye and good work for the next video 👍👋
If the barrel (etal) is difficult to extract from its detent in the box, just fold in a suitable ribbon, that pulling its extremities later will get the job done without scratching anything. If you use a fancy red ribbon, you indeed will get away with not making it evident that it indeed did not come with the case.
I think Ian had a rifle with this sort of mechanism in his show a couple of years ago and demonstrated it pretty well... Maybe put a link into your description too?
Not all history goes to the junk bin. This wouldn't and shouldn't be there, its an important bit to show that rate of fire and ease of use were always considerations for as long as there have been firearms. Much like the "Perdition to Conspirators" firearm or the 1790's 200 shot Chambers Flintlock machine gun. Its less a developmental dead end and more a spring board. We stand where we are because of those works of those who came before.
Kalthoff repeater predates the Lorenzoni by some decades I think. Patent in France to Guillaume Kalthoff in 1640, but documentation tracks back to the 1620s. There's an absolutely fascinating network of early repeater technologists in this period, doubtless drawn in part from the extreme violence of the Religious Wars / European Wars of Religion, a bloodletting which would not be matched in Europe until the 20th C. "Volcanic" I always thought referred to the "charge in bullet" design, a sort of early caseless cartridge, popularized as the Rocket Ball in the mid 19th C.
I expect the reality of loading it, involved rather alot of tapping and smacking the side of the pistol to fill the loading drum... Especially after the first couple of shots
I wonder how often the powder in the magazines went off when the pistol was fired? That would be 'interesting'.....Black powder ignites VERY easily ans it wouldn't take much of a gap (.001") would be plenty, for the flash to get into the magazine(s)..... Lovely bit of work though.
Jonathan knows that. But if you were carrying a pistol on campaign it is unlikely to be this. This would be the showpiece you keep at home and show off to your fellow gentlemen and maybe do a bit of target shooting.
Back then Polish Winged Hussars were required to not only fully equip themselves but also their battle company. The apprentice received only board and lodging, and training under the watchful eye of the knight was payment. The groom/coachman and possibly the bodyguards as the light cavalry accompanying the officer were paid from his purse. Of course, the salary was not enough to support students or adjutants, but they could be paid handsomely if the war brought loot.
(until the 18th century) Never go against Italians when it comes to find ways of killing in droves. ..... and the British transformed everything into a magnificent piece of style.
I wonder if there were lorenzoni type machine guns, just connect the lever to the hammer to re-cock and fire it each time and install a self-priming pan from a prussian musket
actually Jonathon i think it is Thomas South there's something about the way the handle is engraved makes me think the T is an initial not part of captain!
When you may afford such artwork, you may afford the wine to be drunk before the duel. I sense this might be classed as an unfair advantage however, as you have 7 chances to 1 of getting something damaged on the opponent. :)
It's not to much a twist to the barrel, but Damascus steel. It's early for western adoption of Damascus, but much more common later in early cartridge shotguns, in the back half of the 19th century.
Magnificent! British gun engravers then and now, are the best. American guns are a bit repetitive with the running leaf and scroll. Germans are just too... Teutonic. Italian and Spanish a bit too florid. High end British guns are always perfect. They don't cross the line into "too much." Each British engraver has his own original and elegant designs and motifs and part of the magic is that they don't overdo it.
Could these guns be have been used for "hobby hunting"? the repeating mechanism, lack of rifling and sizeable calibre made me think of a self-defence item, but the barrel's length certainly doesn't allow it to be carried as such. So, I thought, what about it being some noble/bourgeois hunting implement?
I would want a not-quite-that-amateur machinist. The explosive forces are not small, and I wouldn't want to see anyone hurt if anything was slightly out of place.
The more I see ancient "assault weapons" the more it solidifys my belief that The second Amendment doesn't only apply to single shots Also you could open cannons back then
Repeating flintlocks have to be my favorite guns, such creative designs that gunsmiths had to come up with before we had self-contained cartridges, wonder how many other designs got lost in history.
I am german, Brittas boyfriend, and german style trained metal worker ( Facharbeiter). When watching historic mechanical items, firearms, watches, measure Instruments etc., i am always astonihed, what the craftsmen of old days could do, for a modern metal worker unbelieveable.
There's a 1625 breechloading wheellock musket that used iron cartridges. Very interesting gun.
The demon gunsmith of Fleetstreet
😈
Attend the tale of harvey mortimer.
Of harvey! Of harvey mortimer!
Etc etc
I’m astonished to realize I would totally watch “What Is This Box”
I know you don’t do it in this series, but I’d love to see this thing, or an accurate replica, being loaded and fired. It seems ingenious.
I can't imagine what it's like to hold something in your hands that has such an incredible history.
My grandma was a Kaltoft with a direct line back to the Kaltofts mentioned in this video. He and his siblings were making these for the Kings of Denmark, Sweden and England (Charles II) and the Tsar of Russia) back in the 1600's.
This is simply fascinating. If only I could take a look at the internals...
The ingenuity required to come up with something like this is quite something.
Saw one of these on forgotten weapons.
Gunsmiths were extremely creative.
Woah, really cool!
"Repeating" and "flintlock" are not words one would expect to see put together, but apparently that is a thing that exists.
Just wait until you hear about the flintlock machine gun
Fascinating. Thank you so much for these videos. This one proves that "repeating arms" have always been a natural progression in the technology.
That's the most ornately decorated bomb that I've ever seen.
This is fucking phenomenal engineering holy shit.
Mortimer, Lorenzoni, Cookson, all of these apparently used the same basic mechanic. I'd like to know what was the difference between them, they seem really fascinating.
Beautiful piece of art.
That is an amazing piece of engineering. Myself, wife, son and Dad came over to the Easter weekend Joust, it was great. It was my Wife's first visit and she was impressed, the boy and my Dad have been quite a few times in the past. Anyone into the history of this green and sometimes not so pleasant land should visit.
Those are really cool and it doesn't take too long to reload
I'm sure you've heard this at least once before. You sir, must have one of the best jobs in the UK, Europe, hell the whole world. Every man who's ever been into firearms, like me, must be envious beyond measure.
The collection you're the lord and master of, must be the largest in the world. Not in just numbers, but variety.
Was this a job you aspired too, or did life just steer you there by happenstance?
You get to look at, touch, hold, love and even fondle guns most people didn't even know existed. You've been blessed.
Yes, I admit it, I'm envious. I'm also happy for you and happy the UK seems to have found a man up to the task of caring for this collection and also sharing it with the world.
Thank you sir. God bless you, assuming you have one. If not, John Moses Browning might be a good candidate.
What an amazing mechanism! Very ingeniously designed and beautifully decorated too.
If you could find a CAPt North's pistol they would make a great pair for a pirate captain he could claim he had marked north and south. Lovely pistol just the right size.
Or they might annihilate each other in an enormous explosion like matter and antimatter if they ever touched...
Creative, good craftsmanship and history.
Very educational. Thanks for bringing it up. Since this is not a muzzleloader, the barrel might as well have been rifled.
Cool.
Just remarkable.
Beautiful weapon.
Gorgeous.
What beautiful object
Impressive beast, impressive engineering.
If you're that curious about the powder charge, perhaps sand could be an inert simulator to avoid risk and damage. Any grains of sand that don't pour out easily can just be blown out with compressed air.
The risk of explosion with that thing must be massive, even when it's so beautifully made.
That's really cool!! I'd never heard of this before.
I was at Fort Nelson today, not sure you would get those guns on the table. I unexpectedly saw an SLR (the finest assault rifle), so a good day
Strictly speaking the SLR is a battle rifle, but your point remains valid.
Not an " assault rifle" both the intermediate cartridge and full automatic fire are missing.
And I was lucky enough to carry one in SE Asia in 1867/68 with the Australian Army. Heavy but lovely.
@@alonsocushing2263 self loading musket ?
@@snowflakemelter1172 Yes. We had a couple but were told that as they are very valuable, we could only use them in an emergency.
Will we ever get to see Jonathan show any artillery pieces?
I call 'em Lorenzoni, 'cause the first time I was made aware of them, was from Forgotten Weapons, and that's what Ian calls 'em.
Only makers that would attempt these were the highest quality makers, else they'd just be a fancy pipe bomb.
LOL, indeed.
The remarkable Jonathan Ferguson
You who have looked at alot of weapons in games might find it interesting, if you didn’t already know, that roughly this design is in the old computer RPG game ”Arcanum of steamworks and magic obscura”. Though in the game it’s called ”long range pistol”
Absolutely wonderful pistol, thank you for showing us Jonathan. Although if it is based on my experience of flintlock firing, the flint would break after the first shot haha
I cant remember what book it was, but I think it was in the Sackett series by Louis Lamor, where one of these pistols was used.. Now that I saw the crank on the left side. I recognize it.
could you do a video on the luty 9mm sub machine gun?.
Truly the Winchester of the 1600s
Interesting to see those automatic priming pan, that technology could be used on flintlock pepperbox type pistols and rifles.
Bacelli Lorenzoni sounds like an enticing pasta dish at a high end Italian restaurant. Apologies to Italians everywhere but that’s what Im choosing to visualize at the moment.
Question
I saw holders for everything but flash pan powder. Where would you have that?
Thanks for another engaging video. A fantastic piece of handmade precision engineering, it must have been fabulously expensive to purchase. You might measure the size of the powder reserve shown at 7:51 with a depth micrometer and calipers, then divide that by the number of balls to get a rough idea of the powder charge per shot, assuming the reserve would be completely filled?
A good rule of thumb of thumb is caliber≈grains of powder. I’m guessing since this had a powder “cylinder” it was probably about 20grain
Jonathan, do You have any (even vague) data or mentions considering reliability of such gun design?
It is a really nice box though.
I’d really love to know how reliable m these things actually are in practise
hi, Jonathan !!!
very interesting pistol, but very dangerous too !
because the weel bolt, that take the powder and the ball, while wheel to bring them in the barrel, it can gives a spark and causing a blowup of the powder storaged in the handle magazine ...!!! in the seventeen century in italy a gunsmith of name Giacomo Berselli maked a repeating pistol like that, and another gunsmith of name Michele Lorenzoni maked several rifles the same than pistol !
good video like everytime
bye and good work for the next video
👍👋
If the barrel (etal) is difficult to extract from its detent in the box, just fold in a suitable ribbon, that pulling its extremities later will get the job done without scratching anything.
If you use a fancy red ribbon, you indeed will get away with not making it evident that it indeed did not come with the case.
I think Ian had a rifle with this sort of mechanism in his show a couple of years ago and demonstrated it pretty well... Maybe put a link into your description too?
ua-cam.com/video/neQmNuaysCo/v-deo.html Here, a Lorenzoni pattern (that is the magazine style) built by Wilson in the UK...
The issue with the barrel not lining up....could there have been a "washer" (maybe leather or brass which is now missing) to make a gas seal?
I love early repeating firearms. They may have been relegated to the junk bin of history, but they're always creative and inventive.
Not all history goes to the junk bin. This wouldn't and shouldn't be there, its an important bit to show that rate of fire and ease of use were always considerations for as long as there have been firearms. Much like the "Perdition to Conspirators" firearm or the 1790's 200 shot Chambers Flintlock machine gun.
Its less a developmental dead end and more a spring board. We stand where we are because of those works of those who came before.
Was this repeating mechanism used for repeating muskets or rifles as well?
Cool
Kalthoff repeater predates the Lorenzoni by some decades I think. Patent in France to Guillaume Kalthoff in 1640, but documentation tracks back to the 1620s. There's an absolutely fascinating network of early repeater technologists in this period, doubtless drawn in part from the extreme violence of the Religious Wars / European Wars of Religion, a bloodletting which would not be matched in Europe until the 20th C. "Volcanic" I always thought referred to the "charge in bullet" design, a sort of early caseless cartridge, popularized as the Rocket Ball in the mid 19th C.
That was always my understanding of the Volcanic as well. Although he's the expert, I think Jonathan is misusing the term here.
I realy like watching this channel I just wish for better camera work, more detailed close ups would be great
Sir, how expensive such a pistol could be back then?
Señor Spielbergo strikes again...
.
Just saying, but checking isn't entirely decorative, it helps with grip.
An excellent gun and presentation, thanks.
The barrel sems hexagonal, rather than octagonal?
I expect the reality of loading it, involved rather alot of tapping and smacking the side of the pistol to fill the loading drum... Especially after the first couple of shots
How would Nelson have operated this?
Monster Hunter Bowguns suddenly make sense.
"I don't want to take this apart"....or shoot it, I imagine..😬seems crazy dangerous design.
シリンダー外部の上下の穴はなんのためにあるのですか?
ガス抜き？
As Brad Pitt said at the end of Se7en, “What's in the box?!”
I wonder how often the powder in the magazines went off when the pistol was fired? That would be 'interesting'.....Black powder ignites VERY easily ans it wouldn't take much of a gap (.001") would be plenty, for the flash to get into the magazine(s)..... Lovely bit of work though.
This is probably the closest you will come to a “Gucci” flintlock
This and Girardoni air rifle are completely space age tech at the time and show how advanced european craftsmen really were
At one time, all officers of the British military were required to buy their own sidearms that they would be their daily carry weapons 😊
Jonathan knows that. But if you were carrying a pistol on campaign it is unlikely to be this. This would be the showpiece you keep at home and show off to your fellow gentlemen and maybe do a bit of target shooting.
This was possibly just a private weapon to show off. Not their daily carry.
And although they were required to buy their own sidearms, there was still standards on what type and caliber had to be carried for duty.
Back then Polish Winged Hussars were required to not only fully equip themselves but also their battle company. The apprentice received only board and lodging, and training under the watchful eye of the knight was payment. The groom/coachman and possibly the bodyguards as the light cavalry accompanying the officer were paid from his purse. Of course, the salary was not enough to support students or adjutants, but they could be paid handsomely if the war brought loot.
(until the 18th century) Never go against Italians when it comes to find ways of killing in droves.
..... and the British transformed everything into a magnificent piece of style.
I doubt anyone will make a replica!? I wouldn't shoot it!
I'm surprised the blowback didn't ignight all the powder in the magazine and blow the thing to shreads.
Which ducal family is Captain South related to?
He'll been a baronet, I imagine. Lowlier fry but still entitled to arms.
I wonder if there were lorenzoni type machine guns, just connect the lever to the hammer to re-cock and fire it each time and install a self-priming pan from a prussian musket
There is also a letter T on the handle so it is more likely to be Captain Thomas South.
So this thing actually worked without blowing up??
Couldn't you just shim to compensate the over centering?
I'd want one that I could use left handed.
This makes me wonder if the Jonathan of 150 years from now is going to be holding up golden cartel AKs and I can only smile
Funny thing you say that after the golden Kalashnikov video a month ago...
Semi-auto flintlock 8)
This calls for a Bruno animation. But tjeez what a nice piece to blow your hand off sooner or later…
actually Jonathon i think it is Thomas South there's something about the way the handle is engraved makes me think the T is an initial not part of captain!
When you may afford such artwork, you may afford the wine to be drunk before the duel.
I sense this might be classed as an unfair advantage however, as you have 7 chances to 1 of getting something damaged on the opponent. :)
a pistol thats almost longer than a rifle
It's not to much a twist to the barrel, but Damascus steel. It's early for western adoption of Damascus, but much more common later in early cartridge shotguns, in the back half of the 19th century.
It takes seven balls? Sounds like my ex.
Your ex is a dragon?
@@korbetthein3072 She can be at times, yes.
@@HeathLedgersChemist So if I gather all 7 of her balls I get a wish?
Magnificent! British gun engravers then and now, are the best. American guns are a bit repetitive with the running leaf and scroll. Germans are just too... Teutonic. Italian and Spanish a bit too florid. High end British guns are always perfect. They don't cross the line into "too much." Each British engraver has his own original and elegant designs and motifs and part of the magic is that they don't overdo it.
Dark background on video is not good for perception of this interesting matter.
I would think it's Captain T. South
Lorenzoni, lorenzoni, give me the formioni.
Could these guns be have been used for "hobby hunting"? the repeating mechanism, lack of rifling and sizeable calibre made me think of a self-defence item, but the barrel's length certainly doesn't allow it to be carried as such. So, I thought, what about it being some noble/bourgeois hunting implement?
I would love to see this type of gun made by an amateur machinist. Maybe a UA-camr machinist will see this and become inspired
I would want a not-quite-that-amateur machinist. The explosive forces are not small, and I wouldn't want to see anyone hurt if anything was slightly out of place.
The work involved would be extremely expensive and a hobby machinist isn't a gunsmith.
The more I see ancient "assault weapons" the more it solidifys my belief that The second Amendment doesn't only apply to single shots
Also you could open cannons back then
አማረኛ
Victorian era always amuses me with its wackyness
Georgian not Victorian, modern revolvers and cartridges were developed in the Victorian period
Ww