The 40k universe is fantastic. The people running GW are not. Kevin Rountree(GW CEO) is acting like a hypocrite. Warhammer 40k-Rouge Trader launched in September 1987... After copy/pasting entire sections from these... Robocop(July 1987) Starwars(1977) Dune(1965) Starship Troopers(1959) The Foundation(1951) Enders Game(1985) Judge Dredd(1977) Aliens(1979) Lord of the Rings(1954) Terminator(1984) Startrek(1966) Rambo(1982) Preadator(1984) 1984(1949) Animal Farm(1945) The Forever War(1974) Call of Cthulu(1928) Then get mad if anything remotely resembles what they ripped off. They are the Disney of Great Britain
As someone who works in us trademark law I'll just say frivolous "lawfare" is all too common. Legislation hasn't caught up to anti-slapp levels in frivolous trade infringement claims
Edit. Something I think got a little ignored too is the complexity of establishing venue in these matters. Jurisdiction alone would be a legal fight that neither side wants, and guys like Gamza really couldn't afford
To take 100% of someone's labor because they took 1% of your IP is ridiculous. They should be required to at least offer a licensing opportunity. People are PRECISELY buying from Gamza specifically to avoid GW for their behavior just like this. There is no "brand confusion"
@@ac833 GW could not afford it either. But they know they never have to vigorously defend more than a handful to intimidate every small creator. Some of the legal shit show is not GWs fault, but they are exploiting its flaws nonetheless.
@@USALibertarian Gamzas problem is that he creates content with clickbait titles actively flaming GW so it would be very hard to defend him against claims that he's infringing. You aren't entitled to use anyone's legally protected property unless it's true fair use. Creating stls then using GWs name to sell them as proxies for their system is a little too obvious
Would be fascinating to see what happened if Warner Bros or Frank Herbert's estate knocked on GW's door and told them that they can't have a God-Emperor any more.
Just a quick update gamza was able to put his stuff back on his patron because he contested the copyright strike and games workshop did not reply back to Patreon to reinforce their claim
If GW wont lower its pricess (witch they can indeed do) 3d printing will become more and more common. Also, I would love if all the various companies and creators that GW has "drew inspiration" from their creations came knocking one day with the same attitude
Yeah… The whole “Lower prices is easy” spiel is a very closed minded and immature view. Inflation, energy costs rises thanks to world markets and events, overhead costs due to running and hiring employees, renting property, shipping, British and international taxes, material costs and their need to make a profit, like every other company.
@@smoketinytom except that its not, the real pricesbof those have been thoroughly explained, and they are making over 900% profit on their product, and it has increased in price that far exceeds all economic metrics. They find ways to cut costs, and raise prices. They take the most liberal definitions of currency exchange and raised the prices in Austrlia to nearly killing that market. GW could charge half of what they do, and they'd probably sell way more and increase that... but they are frozen in their current model and greedy.
The starcraft one is a nice circular design copy as when it was in early development it was ment to be a licensed 40k game and the marines originally were GW space marines that when the developers lost the license they had to change the look just enough to not look like space marines anymore. GW then copy that look for the leagues of votan is just fucking hilarious as copying something to make them look different to space marines they copied something that was originally a space marine 🤣
Warcraft was the one that was pitched to GW for a license. Starcraft was Blizzard basically rubbing GW's nose in it (GW wanted too much control over the IP, which is why the original negotiations collapsed).
@@markwatson8714 From what I recall, the contract negotiations collapsed because it was _Blizzard_ who wanted too much control. IIRC, it was one of Blizzard's co-founders who wanted to make a licensed Warhammer game, but the rest of the team had had bad experiences working on prior licensed titles and they pushed to develop their own IP.
@@dungeonsanddobbers2683 It was one of those hilarious bad calls GW tends to make from time to time. When Blizzard approached them for use of the Warhammer name GW was still under the impression videogames weren't likely to go anywhere (in fairness it was 1993; Myst was the biggest selling PC title and the original Doom had only just made it's debut). They basically refused to even contemplate something approaching a licensing deal, instead wanting something more akin to a one off contract that would need to be re-negotiated and replaced if anything changed - like say Blizzard wanted to release an expansion. To be fair to both companies they each had reasons to be cagey. Blizzard had just finished working with DC which was a painful experience by all accounts. GW had just had their ambitions for Advanced Heroquest and Battle Masters smashed by MB games deciding to drop the titles.
Space Marines are from Starship troopers and Star Wars. The Necrons are terminators. The Tau are Gundam. The Tyranids are xenomorphs. The Orks are Orcs mixed with Mad Max. 40k is the most unoriginal pile of rip-offs that ever existed. A galaxy spanning empire run by an emperor and various factions contribute to the emperor's goals because by doing so they keep leverage and remain relevant. Their ships are piloted by psychic mutants that fold space time... Weaponized sound, religious overtones, imperial super soldiers, planets run by nobles, fighting in hand to hand combat in the age of lasers and nukes... Thats Dune by Frank Herbert, not fan fiction by Rick Priestly.
What anyone thinks of Gamza is meaningless. The important thing is that GW is continuing it's very aggressive, bullying copyright defense. The behavior makes me less and less likely to do any business with them. I already quit buying their paints. I was planning to play Old World when it came out (assuming there are dwarfs) but I really have to ask myself why? There are just too many other companies out there with good games and good minis who will appreciate my patronage more than GW would.
Do Old World if you want: just pirate the rules from the web. GW will lose a boat-load if we all just start pirating their copy, and buy miniatures from FLGS only.
@@scepteredisle Gamza tends to winge for the sake of doing so, bitching about things to the point where i know a ten year old kid who was perfect by comparison.
Anyone else getting flash backs to what happened to the music industry sticking with CDs because 'no one will use a computer to download an MP3'. Games workshop real are going to be the CD player of the hobby industry. Also the podcast The fluffenhammer has covered the all the stuff GW has ripped off I great detail over the years
His designs were similar to GWs, but then GW also made their new Sagittarius as close a copy of the Gremlin from halo. Its only a matter of time before someone hits them with a lawsuit with all the material they "borrow"
Contextually, Gamza'z designs are blatant rip off of GW's, as a cheaper alternative. A lot of stuff in media is borrowed, but Gamza was literally making GW stuff. Soooo, I kinda see why.
GW is the epitome of predatory capitalism. They've sold the soul of their brand and watered it down selling their broken and constantly changing proprietary product with pay to play stats and models that are obsolete the same week they come out. Coming after smaller creators and bullying them with the fear of litigation yet not coming after larger brands is revealing of their business practices. The points expressed in this video are salient. I got into the hobby when White Dwarf had articles on DIY terrain crafting and kitbashing and still featured 3rd party models etc. All the life has been sucked out. They are nothing but bullies and they are shooting themselves in the foot with their disgusting quest for profit
Not only this but literally 90% of their copyright protected "IP" was stolen from other more popular works of science fiction amd they never even had any legal issues. They stole when they wanted to and now are prosecuting fans for "stealing"
@@KneeCapHill not only that, but the stats are things all players need easy access to. Wahapedia doesn't have any lore or non stats. If GW was smart, which they apparently aren't, they would let Wahapedia do their job for them and not bother them, otherwise they will have to do it themselves and it'll cost them.
Plasteel comes from Dune before Dredd. And... you know the Fremen of Dune? They have this underlying psychic link that generally unifies their purpose so the general mood of the tribe reinforces itself throughout. It's called the Tau. The TAU.
I would love to see a break down of the Chapterhouse Lawsuit. I remember following it on Bell of Lost Souls back in the day. Every time there was a new information, I gobbled it up. I even read some of the final legal document (that was available to the public). It was fascinating, and I would love to see a short series based on it going through the lead up, trial, and results. I realize that is a ton of work, and I am like one of four people who would love to see it.
GW is blanket c&d all the small guys, if Gamza is an example of the smaller company/content creator telling them no, maybe hopefully more people will keep saying no... Or a firm can jump in and swoop in to take the low hanging fruit Games Workshop is handing out
I was a commission painter in the late '90s, and I often sold painted miniatures on Ebay. The cease and desist letters I got from GW where for listings with the words orc, ork, space marine, Imperial Guard, troll, goblin... it was amazing. None of those words could be said to be their intellectual property!
This reminds me of a discussion I had with friends when GW killed WHFB and replaced it with space marines fantasy. A friend of mine he this idea that a huge part of the reason GW killed WHFB after some very lacklustre support and a directly pisspoor "end times" run was that not only most names (Dwarves, High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves etc) were not possible to copyright as they are generic descriptors of these fantasy peoples, but even high elf models and the rest were next to impossible to "enforce". Try to get the idea that "No, no they may call them landsknechten, but they are CLEARLY our own original design, Empire greatswords!" to stand up in any court outside of a banana-republic. GW is a perfect example of how shitty our societal system allows companies to act...to quote James Stephanie Sterling: "You can't steal from corporations...its called re-appropriating what the corporations stole in teh first place".
Yep, I noticed that WHFB died around the same time as Chapterhouse and Spots, and speculated much the same thing. A lot of their 40K stuff got rebranded or deruled if there was no current model, but I'm guessing it wasn't enough to cross that arbitrary cancellation line. I still can't wrap my head around the Primaris units by name, for that matter it stands to reason that the entire Primaris came about to close the copyright gap as well.
So one small issue with your theory here. You can't copyright names. It's literally copyright 101, barebasic rule of copyright. You can trademark names, but trademarks have very different rules to copyrights. And even if your theory wasn't flawed on its very foundational level. How do you explain units named "Lord Executioner" or "Chosen" still being a thing? And guess what? Greatswords are still called Greatswords too!
Even if we do manage to beat GW and get everything that was stolen from us back, we would just end up going back to fighting amongst ourselves because like the Orks, we spend more time fighting each other than fighting our enemies
Fascinating! I remember a very xenomorph 'inspired' Hive tyrant back around 3rd edition. Was the Queen from Aliens. I remember being disappointed and thinking they could done better.
I believe (and I could be wrong here) that 20th Century Fox gave GW a taste of their own medicine with that one. Which is why the miniature was redesigned and OOP relatively quickly. The 2nd edition Hormagaunt models (despite being a pain in the arse to get to balance) were also very representative of our favourite phallus-headed struggle snuggle space monster.
There was a time when people were able to judge other people, and we judged them by their actions. I Loved the skit, and the bit about how we all collectively agreed not to make fun of Michael Moorecock's name! (I'm coincidentally re-reading the Elric saga now).
It's almost like the hoarding of capital and laws that support publicly traded companies doing nearly anything to preserve profit are a bad thing. Who would have guessed?
By all means preserve profit just don't be a douchebag. I don't know where you are from but do some digging on how the railroad industry in the US is being brought to its knees by those seeking to profit off it. They are making life living hell for the railroad workers just to line their pockets and they are causing massive issues with the supply chain.
@@armando_barreda Really? Let's compare bad pension companies and the federal govt and its social security program. In social security people are forced to pay in by penalty of law. And at some point. A lot of people that paid in are going to get ripped off an awful lot.
Another part to this story that has been left out is Gamza has put these files up on cults for free and they are great. i have them all and have printed off 40 necrons and saved a packet.
@@jtowensbyiii6018 no it wasnt he was selling them as part of his patron ass hole thats why they came for him for proffiting off their ip so he gave them away for free. Maybe look into things befor commenting and you wont look so ignorant or in your case stupid
Thank you for addressing this. A lot of artists are creating models that are way to similar to GW properties. I like to see models that are obvious "counts as" but clearly distinct and often improvements at least in style to GW models. I still hate seeing GW going after any alternative to their product, especially when they are completely unwilling to take advantage of a growing aspect of the hobby. If GW sold stls of weapons and bits, for a reasonable price and not by a GW reasonable price, they would get so much good PR from the community without hurting their own sales. I don't know why they bury their head in the sand on this.
Because they are the old bear in the market, unwilling to change and inevitably going to fall because of their inertia not allowing them to change with the times.
@@marine3250l good, I kind of hope they do fall and eat the dust, I myself swapped to battletech because of mech, and because they would let you use stand ins for any model and love customized models and paints, and they are cheaper because you don't need over 4 models to play a game. So a lot cheaper to get into. GW needs a reality check
Selling STL's would be a moronic business idea for GW. Once the files are out there they would be shared amongst the playerbase for free and GW would get almost nothing from them. Not a great idea.
GOD im so torn on this one. On the one hand gamza isnt the most "inviting to the public" personality for the product, on the other GW sending a cease and desist over his stl's is kinda scummy too
That's the thing. They don't disapprove of his antics because they think he's wrong per se, they disapprove because others might take offense at the shit he vomits daily and that might impact their brand. It's the wrong move, for the wrong reason, against someone who kind of deserves it, but not for being a plagiarist.
Understatement of the year with Gamza. He turned from a fanboy into one of the most vitriolic complainers of GW because of GW's clamp down on the fan community. There was a level of bitterness and anger to his videos post clamp down which was kind of shocking to see.
Your opinion on Gamza as a personality should be irrelevant. GW is in the wrong for shutting down small businesses that offer alternatives to their overpriced FOMO driven plastic.
I'm not one to generally protect GW, but the C&D is appropriate. This "product" by Gamza exists explicitly to undermine their business and as a competitor, and you cannot easily argue it merely as an homage.
@@JamesSerapio But... Isn't that competition? Competition as in what drives the market? It is not a straight copy and everyone can see that, so it's not like making fake Nike shoes. But it's close enough to compete for the business of people who love evil undead robots from space.
Gamers Workshop will never make their products cheaper and will keep bullying anyone who does a better job at making parts, or miniatures and actually knows how to use 3D design and a printer. I feel better about taking a break from Warhammer 40k and working on Gundam/Gunpla models and much happier now.
@@rangda_prime yeah.. but still, they will notr se it.. and they still shoot on whales...thats were their money comey from. People who buy 12 Landraiders to make a gigantic whatever-tank
I don't know, can't we just go back to a time when everybody just enjoyed everybody's work for what it was, I'm sure back in the 80s we did just that, I remember actually going to citadel miniatures and they would just cast whatever metal figs you wanted and everything was cool, crazy how things change so much
That's "God Emperor Gamza, beloved by all." No judge made him do it, Patreon made him take them down. He also posted a new video 3 days ago saying he won that one, because GW didn't respond to them on the counter claim, allowing the reupload of his files. So, always push back against GW because they'll fold, because they know they have nothing to stand on, like the bullies they are.
My deepest sympathies to Rich Whiteman on the recent passing of his great aunt. 😞 It's so sad to hear that she was killed in a tragic car accident. People should be very grateful to Rich for selflessly finding the strength to appear in this video during his period of mourning.
The fun and the hypocrisy of Games workshop is that each one of their ideas is like 10 other ideas all thrown into a blender. So most of their stuff could get sued by 10 different people. "Inspirations" include but are not limited to Dune, Starship Troopers the book, Starship Troopers the movie, The book Heart of darkness which inspired the film Apocalypse Now, and boy are they lucky no ancient mythologies and pantheons have anyone to sue over stealing their stuff. Ancient Egypt at least three different times between The Necrons, The Thousand Sons and Horus. That's right, Interesting little tidbit. The ancient Egyptian god Horus led a rebellion against Ra.
There is a reason why I found my way to Bolt Action/Konflikt 47 lately, even when admitting that I really enjoyed 40K in 9th edition after a long hiatus. It is really sad to see that GW after behaving for ONE edition of 40K again got back to their worst behavior against fans, against creators and against providers of alternative models. TBH I really don't even like Gamza, he is IMO quite a moron in most of his videos and most of the time not really likable too. I also do not think that 3D printing will become a replacement for model companies like GW in the near future BUT 3D printing and also suppliers for 3D files like Gamza make our beloved hobby much more richer and interesting.
The irony is that GW would never actually defend their IPs thru the legal process. They couldn't afford to either on a significant scale. But the fact they could do it once allows them to intimidate any small creator that can't even do it once. So the notion GW is "obligated" to defend their IP is ridiculous on its face.
Well.. Gamza slapped his wet one right in the face of GW... He literally stood there and asked them to take their best shot. And fire they did. Not to victim blame in general but in this case he kinda had it coming. That does not make what GW does any more right.. (after all the only reason we do not have Space Marines or Hight Elves any more are because those terms are common use and can´t be copyrighted) But as my old nan used to say... Two roosters fighting does not make a omelett... Or in other words.. two wrongs does not make one right. But the core problem here is compyright and how "fairly close" is very much good enough.
He asked for it? Why because he shits on GW? because he sells 3D files and pushes the use of 3D printers over using GW? company's can't just fabricate ridiculous claims and go after someone just because "They asked for it".
I agree with you with copyright on terms like Space Marine and Inquisitor, but I agree with GW with the copyright on Gamza because if I was given one of Gamza's models I would think it was a Necron model. The Space Marines I say have enough diversity in their model look that I could but some twists to how it looks and it could look completely different. I'll admit that the Imperial Guardsmen look a lot like starship troopers, but what makes them different is war gear as the two have very different looking wargear. Some Ork models definitely couldnt be copyrightable, but some could. What I'm personally trying to say is that the name copyrights are stupid I agree, but your argument for how necrons are like the terminators is like they're inspired, but not direct copy's like Gamza's. Necrons are inspired by terminators, but not exact copy's. The only thing that I couldn't tell the difference would be judge dread and the adeptus arbites.
Space Marines in 40k are very obvious knock offs of the Starship Troopers from the book the movie was based on. Humans in power armor which grants extreme strength and enhanced senses, who descend from orbit in drop pods, and who carry tank level weaponry. The Heinlein estate has the money to fight a lawsuit with GW and if they could get the Herbert estate in as well it would be glorious.
100% with you on your analysis. I used to really like them as a company. But since about 2000 they have become shadier and shadier to the point that I no longer really care about their products.
Not a lot they could go after them for. It's not a breach of copyright or trademark to market yourself as a better version of someone else's product, in fact trying to prevent someone doing so runs quite a big risk of putting you on the wrong side of fair competition legislation.
@@markwatson8714 Yes, but I mean, Discourse's whole point was that they have zero ground to stand on yet still do it anyway gambling on the smaller company giving in before it even hits a court.
@@albundy5492 Here's hoping! I think the best thing Gaetano ever did was to start moving away from all things even sniffing of GW. OPR can and should stand alone. It's not just "free 40k/AoS alt" and deserves to be seen as such.
The term Plasteel didn't actually originate with 2000AD either. I'm not entirely sure Harry Harrison created Plasteel and Ferroconcrete but he certainly used them in his 1961 novel "The Stainless Steel Rat"... though it is said that there aren't any original stories any more I do wish GW had been just a little more creative in their plagerism ;)
I don't know who came up with plasteel, but ferroconcrete is an engineering term originating in the 19th c., for the practice of reinforcing concrete with iron/steel rods or rebar, which itself goes back another hundred years. You might have been thinking of ceramite, (used alongside plateel and adamantium in power armor) and it's possible GW thought they coined that one, but it's apparently a hard building stone the color of red clay tiles, and the registered trademark of an electronic component company for their ceramic capacitors. They can fight with Disney over adamantium, lol.
At this point I've lost hope for GW as a company. They have been doing this sort of thing for decades, and a company that doesnt adapt with the times or use new technology to their advantage deserves to slowly die off. Use their own Corpo logic against them. As for Gamza he's a bit of an edge lord with a chip on his shoulder. Entertaining, but mostly harmless. He didn't deserve to get slapped with the Law Hammer.
My favorite was what has happened with Raging Heroes. When they were really small time, they had a manticore model that they made a lamassu alternate head for. They got a C&D from GW for that part...Just as the WHFB Storm of Magic expansion was launching, along with GW bringing their own *ancient* lamassu model back to sale. After the Chapterhouse trail RH has went full throttle on making entire alternative model lines for GW armies, as well as a few of their own fun lines lol
Well they backed down because they were in the wrong, Pretty much he done what Chapter House did years ago and they won their cases but it ruined them, also there are countless ther stuff much like that all over the place online be it on MMF, Pateron, gumtree etc...
Don't forget that the main reason Chapter House 'suceeded' was because they made things that GW didnt. That's why GW now flat out refuse to have rules for models that don't exist (even down to loadouts for characters)
I remember the Space Marine book case There was a search for terms in the sphere of wargaming, not that trademarks can't lapse, or that prior use is not contentious, but the point with "Space Marines" as a term in wargaming pre-dates GW's use of it, in FGU's figure wargame "Space Marines"
You’ve gotta remember back to the 90’s when FASA got weaker to the point they went out of business by an American distributor of Robtech claiming battle tech infringed there IP.
@@paulhalforc1889 FASA was stupid; first for using the designs with different names, and for deciding to fight instead of making small changes since they were not selling Macross or Dougram models. The current unseen mechs are redesigns. Marauder and Wasp had to be completely changed
And I love the Dougram and Crusher Joe mechs especially. And I really love in Dougram when the "battlemaster" mech was wearing a legit snowsuit. Anime is so weird.
It's funny that GW a company that stole multiple ideas from other IP's sue other because they claim IP imfrigement. I just wish someone would sue GW for copyright imfrigement and they lose hard. I doubt that this would teach them humility but at least they would know what it feels like.
I've made Gamza's proxies, and threw him some money. I also have them backed up on drive after drive, in case they ever get pulled. But so far, Cults3d have been great to deter corpo influence
That's another good point in this, them going after him will change nothing. The files are out there and can be distributed by anyone. They're just so hopelessly behind the curve.
@@jtowensbyiii6018 totally wrong with that bud. GW's constant price hikes stem from them joining the stock market & investors fervent greed 20ish years ago. 3d printing has only been around 1/3 to a 1/4 off that time & even then that's only starting to get good.
I ran Chapterhouse. If you want some facts let me know. We weren’t bankrupt by the case, I stopped the business because of the burnout from the legal battle.
Being an old boy seeing blister packs drop from 4 metal minis to 3 in the mid nineties, it feels that gw got super focused on minmaxing profit, ignoring their borrowed ideas. And now they have to be the loudest dog to try and keep others away. But 3d printing is something that really needs to be embraced as it's only going to get cheaper and more accessable.
@@DiscourseMinis or Spiral Arm Studios (Maelstrom's Edge) - they even sell terrain greeblie sprues and have links to "how to make things using our greeblie sprues"
Make what you want of gamza and his views, GW deserve all the shit they get. They have copied and pasted every bit of medieval, fantasy and sci-fi genre's they can get their skaven-esque mits on. Would love to see the owners of the Dune trademark flatten GW now.
Got to love their IP protection because so many of the ideas they trade on have always been taken from the wider sci-fi and fantasy genre. These days they simply now just throw their weight and use of expensive lawyers around against those who can't afford to fight them.
In the late 70's there was an Anime called "Star Blazers" and in one of the Episodes they featured a character called "Sgt Kox" who lead a group of "Space Marines" against Gamelon forces.
I have been wanting to get a Mordheim band started ever since I looked over the PDF of the rules in 2004. Then one day at my local flgs I saw on the used area for sisters of Sigma minis which I purchased. Recently on Etsy I saw for $41 a set of 15 3D print minis of the sisters. For $41 I am getting five novices, five sisters, three sister superiors, an augur and a Matriarch. If I remember correctly $40 got you eight sisters of sigmar. What a deal now all I got to do is just wait. I'm currently having fun building up my warbands for the other official ones like the witch hunters all I really need to use is a reaper mini which already uses a witch hunter. I'm going to start working on a undead warband and I also have skin models I don't really need to use more time models I can just use my own models from The collection I have built over the years
The MWG guys are pretty prudent so probably consulted with a copyright lawyer. They aren't using any GW trademarked names/designs, and there's not a direct congruency to the design language of the miniatures.
You judge Gamza too hard. He is VERY progressive: unlike other uber-men, he WOULD allow you to leave the house to work. As long you remember to keep the house clean.. /s
Gamza had it coming. He kept tugging on the tail of GW and they finally turned around and gave him the bite he was looking for. What they did to him or at least tried to do to him. It was just a warning implying they can go even further next time. People wanna keep trifling with these big companies and somehow think they're untouchable. Sorter reminds me of the guys that kept messing with Nintendo.
In this case, it seems kinda like GW wasn't in absolute wrong, but i might be wrong. It's not like GW isn't doing the big corpor copyright abuse tactic of throwing around copyright claims and, if they are in the wrong, they won't suffer any consequences - for poor people and small businesses, the trial process itself is the punishment. "Space Marine" copyright is just plain ridiculous for example, but that's how it is. GW and other big businesses like trying to abuse their money and just keep hoarding copyright, which they, in an ideal situation, wouldn't be able to hoard, cause they know that if someone decides to fight them, that person wi just go bankrupt while fighting off frivolous bs lawsuits.
@@Alex-cq1zr The Space Marine copyright is still one the dumbest things they tried to do. That's why they had to start using Astartes a lot more. I think they also had a similar copyright issue with the Eldar at one point.
@@abelbabel8484, This is a lesson for him. He now knows GW can come after him anytime and I am sure if they wanted they could've answered him on his counterclaim.
@@Trinioutsider34 On the contrary, he has the written assurance of patreon that they now hold GWs claims to be spurious and will not comply with any future takedown requests. He's bulletproof now.
its like we still in Medieval times, You need to be rich to have justice. Please do not spend a dime on GWS people. Lets play all the other games, Lets buy all the other models. ITs the only way to destroy this evil who picks on week people.
The truth is that no matter how many times this occurs thousands and thousands of people will continue to buy their products and support them. GW knows this. For me I have been playing other games and painting those models like Warmachine and Malifaux and Conquest. For me I know I’m happier in the hobby now.
Holy shit the Kangaroo Court was exactly what I needed today to brighten my mood. The video on the whole was really good (I mean, your content is good so no surprise) but the Court segment just... chef's kiss
I have to say it. I don't like Gamza. Never have. Never will. And I also have to admit, that he was blatantly marketing his product as the cheaper GW alternative. His designs are also very close to *some* GW sculpts, but nevertheless original designs in my opinion. That does not stop me from thinking, that GW and their tactics are despicable. That is one of the reasons, why I stopped buying their product years ago. The others are: 1. Their games are crap. 2. Their sculpts are mediocre at best, although production quality is good. 3. Their pricing is abusive. So, in order to save the hobby, we, as consumers, need to band together and vote with our money and stop buying their product, until such time, that GW changes their way. I know that a boycott will probably not work, but let's try to make sure, that more and more customers jump ship and stop buying their product.
So promote the guy you claim to dislike, because he is doing the exact thing you want us all to do. "I dislike the guy doing what I want us all to do" seems like a weird fucking take.
@@samhobbs9116 I don't like Gamza as a person or persona, hence MY choice not to support him, just as it is MY choice not to buy from GW anymore, because I do not like their tactics. Gamza is not the only content creator out there. It is also MY choice to support other content creators that produce miniatures and models and game systems. Nothing weird about my take, least of all fucking weird, to put it in your terms.
Finally Discourse slips in a Night Lords reference! I've only been waiting like a year now for this moment! ................ Ahhh.............worth every click!
Bethesda has the rights to the word “scrolls” they come at people all the time who put that word in any title. This is pretty common stuff. Sucks but not something only GW does just something all companies with IP do.
@@DiscourseMinis i agree. Often the legal departments are so far removed from the dev and creators that they just attack everything. They are not into the hobby they are in to suing people and court cases. But I agree this stuff needs to be reigned in you cannot claim ownership of words like “scroll” or “ space marine” they are just too general.
I'm a bit surprised GW didn't go after FASA Corporation because one of the battlemech in the Battletech game is called the Warhammer which is also known by two other names but licensing is a crazy beast at times! However, FASA was facing its own legal issues with Harmony Gold (Robotech) at the time and GW back then wasn't that awful and possessive of a company in the mid 1990s. Their fall from grace came (I believe) at the start of the 2010s. Also, Heinlein came up with the concept of the trooper in powered armor in his 1963 Novel *Starship Troopers* (the anime is 100X better than the Verhoven movie!!)
Heinlein's, Megacity's, and Star Wars' ideas of powered armour are probably why some GW's most detailed lore is the genetic engineering of the 7-8ft Astartes and the bonding to the black carapace. To distinguish the idea as unique and not directly derivative. Also, they can't just sue for the term Warhammer. It's very much about if it creates market confusion in any way. Their branding of Warhammer a for a series of games and now a chain of stores.
I'm not sure its a huge red flag GW goes after small creators and not large corporations. Because large corporations have legal departments who are smart enough not to commit copyright infringement. Pepsi isn't making Ultramarine flavored soda. Disney didn't announce a Tau Disney+ show this weekend. Even Blizzard who everyone says stole Starcraft and Warcraft from GW weren't dumb enough to make Jim Raynor into a Primaris and make the Zerg into a HiveFleet. ChapterHouse Studio was straight up making "Space Marine White Scars Captain" as a product. And CHS studios very specifically didn't win their trial and then went bankrupt, they were ordered to pay GW like $30,000 in damages for all the claims GW won in court, which was like a full 1/3rd of them. Gamza was just straight up selling a Necron model. Smaller creators think they're too small for notice, that laws only apply to big corporations. And that's not how it works. People don't just get a pass because they can't afford a legal team.
Hey Lee, I didn't want to go too deep into Chapterhouse in this, that would take a full video to really deconstruct and talk about as it's quite complicated. I know what you mean regarding larger companies being smarter about how they graft from other properties but tbh I think in practice that's not quite true & there's lots of other properties that GW COULD argue cribbed quite heavily from them but they don't even blink an eye. Whereas when it comes to less powerful individuals and companies, GW constantly overreach in what they think they own & where they decide to act. They don't go after bigger companies because it would an expensive litigation that they could potentially lose. That fear doesn't exist for smaller content creators. GW's behaviour definitely fits the pattern of trademark bullying. And I disagree on whether that model was truly a Necron or not, but ultimately it's a spectrum.
It was a sixty forty split in the end no money did trade hands and gw had to pay own legal costs (Charterhouse was probono) so no one won but gw lawyers had assets frozen and other plays that destroyed Charterhouse
This is so true and I can relate as I have had a similar situation. One of the more recent GW offenders is the blatant rip-off of Artel W’s Ironboss to make the new Ork Warboss in MegaArmor.
Gamza is an abrasive and unlistenable fellow (IMO) but his works are no more plagaristic than any others. I mean there are people scanning FW models and selling the STLs on ETSY. GW would do better going after those. Gamza does like to poke the bear though, so i can't feel too sorry for him.
I'm not sure if Cadians are the best example. The plastic ones seem to be pretty obviously inspired by the metal ones that predate the Starship Troopers movie.
one of the main problems with the legal system is that "the process is the punishment" for the vast majority of people
hugely agree
The 40k universe is fantastic.
The people running GW are not. Kevin Rountree(GW CEO) is acting like a hypocrite.
Warhammer 40k-Rouge Trader launched in September 1987...
After copy/pasting entire sections from these...
Robocop(July 1987)
Starwars(1977)
Dune(1965)
Starship Troopers(1959)
The Foundation(1951)
Enders Game(1985)
Judge Dredd(1977)
Aliens(1979)
Lord of the Rings(1954)
Terminator(1984)
Startrek(1966)
Rambo(1982)
Preadator(1984)
1984(1949)
Animal Farm(1945)
The Forever War(1974)
Call of Cthulu(1928)
Then get mad if anything remotely resembles what they ripped off. They are the Disney of Great Britain
As someone who works in us trademark law I'll just say frivolous "lawfare" is all too common. Legislation hasn't caught up to anti-slapp levels in frivolous trade infringement claims
Edit. Something I think got a little ignored too is the complexity of establishing venue in these matters. Jurisdiction alone would be a legal fight that neither side wants, and guys like Gamza really couldn't afford
To take 100% of someone's labor because they took 1% of your IP is ridiculous. They should be required to at least offer a licensing opportunity.
People are PRECISELY buying from Gamza specifically to avoid GW for their behavior just like this.
There is no "brand confusion"
@@ac833 GW could not afford it either. But they know they never have to vigorously defend more than a handful to intimidate every small creator.
Some of the legal shit show is not GWs fault, but they are exploiting its flaws nonetheless.
@@USALibertarian Gamzas problem is that he creates content with clickbait titles actively flaming GW so it would be very hard to defend him against claims that he's infringing. You aren't entitled to use anyone's legally protected property unless it's true fair use. Creating stls then using GWs name to sell them as proxies for their system is a little too obvious
@@USALibertarian IT's a copyright issue, not a trademark issue.
Would be fascinating to see what happened if Warner Bros or Frank Herbert's estate knocked on GW's door and told them that they can't have a God-Emperor any more.
I would love to see this.
I want Egypt and a bunch of other countries sue them for 'cultural appropriation'. I wonder what would be left of Wh40k after that.
"We need to talk to you about your las-guns and navigator guilds." :D
Better still if the God-Emperor himself makes his views known via a visitation of his Imperial Guard to Warhammer World.
@@Furzkampfbomber only the Tau will remain
Just a quick update gamza was able to put his stuff back on his patron because he contested the copyright strike and games workshop did not reply back to Patreon to reinforce their claim
Amazing
Gamza: contested
GW Legal Team: surprise pikachu face
If GW wont lower its pricess (witch they can indeed do) 3d printing will become more and more common.
Also, I would love if all the various companies and creators that GW has "drew inspiration" from their creations came knocking one day with the same attitude
Especially for forgeworld stuff. Those prices are laughable.
@@remusventanus5341 yeah and for mediocre quality to boot…
@@remusventanus5341 i buyed someday two forgeworld minis and they weren't worth the price *cough fck Resin cough*
Yeah… The whole “Lower prices is easy” spiel is a very closed minded and immature view.
Inflation, energy costs rises thanks to world markets and events, overhead costs due to running and hiring employees, renting property, shipping, British and international taxes, material costs and their need to make a profit, like every other company.
@@smoketinytom except that its not, the real pricesbof those have been thoroughly explained, and they are making over 900% profit on their product, and it has increased in price that far exceeds all economic metrics. They find ways to cut costs, and raise prices. They take the most liberal definitions of currency exchange and raised the prices in Austrlia to nearly killing that market. GW could charge half of what they do, and they'd probably sell way more and increase that... but they are frozen in their current model and greedy.
"Moorcock. A man so respected in the fantasy community that we have collectively agreed not to make fun of his name."
Tea spat through nose.
The starcraft one is a nice circular design copy as when it was in early development it was ment to be a licensed 40k game and the marines originally were GW space marines that when the developers lost the license they had to change the look just enough to not look like space marines anymore. GW then copy that look for the leagues of votan is just fucking hilarious as copying something to make them look different to space marines they copied something that was originally a space marine 🤣
Warcraft was the one that was pitched to GW for a license. Starcraft was Blizzard basically rubbing GW's nose in it (GW wanted too much control over the IP, which is why the original negotiations collapsed).
GW: We will totes rip offer star craft but make it chibi... muahahaha
@@markwatson8714 From what I recall, the contract negotiations collapsed because it was _Blizzard_ who wanted too much control. IIRC, it was one of Blizzard's co-founders who wanted to make a licensed Warhammer game, but the rest of the team had had bad experiences working on prior licensed titles and they pushed to develop their own IP.
@@dungeonsanddobbers2683 It was one of those hilarious bad calls GW tends to make from time to time. When Blizzard approached them for use of the Warhammer name GW was still under the impression videogames weren't likely to go anywhere (in fairness it was 1993; Myst was the biggest selling PC title and the original Doom had only just made it's debut). They basically refused to even contemplate something approaching a licensing deal, instead wanting something more akin to a one off contract that would need to be re-negotiated and replaced if anything changed - like say Blizzard wanted to release an expansion.
To be fair to both companies they each had reasons to be cagey. Blizzard had just finished working with DC which was a painful experience by all accounts. GW had just had their ambitions for Advanced Heroquest and Battle Masters smashed by MB games deciding to drop the titles.
Space Marines are from Starship troopers and Star Wars.
The Necrons are terminators.
The Tau are Gundam.
The Tyranids are xenomorphs.
The Orks are Orcs mixed with Mad Max.
40k is the most unoriginal pile of rip-offs that ever existed.
A galaxy spanning empire run by an emperor and various factions contribute to the emperor's goals because by doing so they keep leverage and remain relevant. Their ships are piloted by psychic mutants that fold space time... Weaponized sound, religious overtones, imperial super soldiers, planets run by nobles, fighting in hand to hand combat in the age of lasers and nukes...
Thats Dune by Frank Herbert, not fan fiction by Rick Priestly.
What anyone thinks of Gamza is meaningless. The important thing is that GW is continuing it's very aggressive, bullying copyright defense. The behavior makes me less and less likely to do any business with them. I already quit buying their paints. I was planning to play Old World when it came out (assuming there are dwarfs) but I really have to ask myself why? There are just too many other companies out there with good games and good minis who will appreciate my patronage more than GW would.
Do Old World if you want: just pirate the rules from the web. GW will lose a boat-load if we all just start pirating their copy, and buy miniatures from FLGS only.
Truth. I despise Gamza. GW going after him doesn't make me like GW more.
You can get really good dwarf models from a ton of independent mini companies. You can get better rules from a ton of independent games developers.
@@rangda_prime why do you despise him?
@@scepteredisle Gamza tends to winge for the sake of doing so, bitching about things to the point where i know a ten year old kid who was perfect by comparison.
Anyone else getting flash backs to what happened to the music industry sticking with CDs because 'no one will use a computer to download an MP3'.
Games workshop real are going to be the CD player of the hobby industry.
Also the podcast The fluffenhammer has covered the all the stuff GW has ripped off I great detail over the years
we dont have a justice system, it's more like an auction.
His designs were similar to GWs, but then GW also made their new Sagittarius as close a copy of the Gremlin from halo. Its only a matter of time before someone hits them with a lawsuit with all the material they "borrow"
Hopefully it'll be Disney or Microsoft. Then it'll be a good fight.
I'm surprised GW never went after Pixar for Buzz's blatant Space Marine rip-off cosplay :)
@@robertlocock5636 Heinleins work isn't public domain yet. GW can't attract the attention of big dogs.
Contextually, Gamza'z designs are blatant rip off of GW's, as a cheaper alternative. A lot of stuff in media is borrowed, but Gamza was literally making GW stuff. Soooo, I kinda see why.
They won't sue, because they know how frivolous it is, unlike GW who frivials.
GW offering STL files at reasonable prices would actually change the game. Imagine all the OOP things they could offer!?
ha yeah right if theydo that they'll overprice the shit out of it
@@commanderdeadhead812 Hence why I said "reasonable prices" lol. We all know it'll never happen, because GW does GW things
They would require you to buy a GW printer with GW resin and the license would cover one cycle of the print for probably 60% of the retail price
I would support that
GW is the epitome of predatory capitalism. They've sold the soul of their brand and watered it down selling their broken and constantly changing proprietary product with pay to play stats and models that are obsolete the same week they come out. Coming after smaller creators and bullying them with the fear of litigation yet not coming after larger brands is revealing of their business practices. The points expressed in this video are salient. I got into the hobby when White Dwarf had articles on DIY terrain crafting and kitbashing and still featured 3rd party models etc. All the life has been sucked out. They are nothing but bullies and they are shooting themselves in the foot with their disgusting quest for profit
Does capitalism mean something else where you are from?
there is healthy capitalism, AND THERE IS FANATICAL CAPITALISUM.
and the way I see it, GW are full on **PREDATORY FANATICS.**
Not only this but literally 90% of their copyright protected "IP" was stolen from other more popular works of science fiction amd they never even had any legal issues. They stole when they wanted to and now are prosecuting fans for "stealing"
@@KneeCapHill not only that, but the stats are things all players need easy access to. Wahapedia doesn't have any lore or non stats. If GW was smart, which they apparently aren't, they would let Wahapedia do their job for them and not bother them, otherwise they will have to do it themselves and it'll cost them.
@@OdinMagnus they much rather shit out a new physical codex every 6 months and sell it to you
Plasteel comes from Dune before Dredd. And... you know the Fremen of Dune? They have this underlying psychic link that generally unifies their purpose so the general mood of the tribe reinforces itself throughout. It's called the Tau. The TAU.
I would love to see your take on Chapterhouse. Your meticulous ability to research these things would undoubtedly lead to some unique insights.
I would love to see a break down of the Chapterhouse Lawsuit. I remember following it on Bell of Lost Souls back in the day. Every time there was a new information, I gobbled it up. I even read some of the final legal document (that was available to the public). It was fascinating, and I would love to see a short series based on it going through the lead up, trial, and results. I realize that is a ton of work, and I am like one of four people who would love to see it.
I cant wait for 3D printing technology to evolve even more. The price is already coming down and quality getting better.
I just got some 3d printed heads and shoulders for my "super vampire soldiers" and was blown away by how good they were
It is their bro. It is there
It's already there buddy, some of the files look absolutely fantastic, often better than gw
The Elegoo Mars 2 Pro is excellent and costs the equivalent of 3 boxes of Primaris Marines on Amazon now. No time like the present my friends :)
You could easily mistake GW as an American company with the amount of litigation that they push.
You're pretty naive if you think this is an American company thing.
The Disney of tabletop wargaming
Aint that the truth
I'm pretty sure there are offices on US
@@mrrselfdestruction1077 its easier to file bullshit suits in america
GW is blanket c&d all the small guys, if Gamza is an example of the smaller company/content creator telling them no, maybe hopefully more people will keep saying no... Or a firm can jump in and swoop in to take the low hanging fruit Games Workshop is handing out
I was a commission painter in the late '90s, and I often sold painted miniatures on Ebay. The cease and desist letters I got from GW where for listings with the words orc, ork, space marine, Imperial Guard, troll, goblin... it was amazing. None of those words could be said to be their intellectual property!
Games Workshop: How DARE you copy our almost-exact copies of the Terminators from the Hollywood Terminator franchise! How DARE YOU GAMZA!
Or the ABC Warriors from 2000AD.
Daaaammmmn youuuu gammzzzzaaaa
@@Kingofsea7591 DAAAAAMN UUUU GAMZAAAAA U SONUVAAAA BEEEEEEEECHHHHHH!!!!
John Steakley used the term Plasteel in his 1984 novel, Armor.
This reminds me of a discussion I had with friends when GW killed WHFB and replaced it with space marines fantasy. A friend of mine he this idea that a huge part of the reason GW killed WHFB after some very lacklustre support and a directly pisspoor "end times" run was that not only most names (Dwarves, High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves etc) were not possible to copyright as they are generic descriptors of these fantasy peoples, but even high elf models and the rest were next to impossible to "enforce". Try to get the idea that "No, no they may call them landsknechten, but they are CLEARLY our own original design, Empire greatswords!" to stand up in any court outside of a banana-republic.
GW is a perfect example of how shitty our societal system allows companies to act...to quote James Stephanie Sterling: "You can't steal from corporations...its called re-appropriating what the corporations stole in teh first place".
Yep, I noticed that WHFB died around the same time as Chapterhouse and Spots, and speculated much the same thing. A lot of their 40K stuff got rebranded or deruled if there was no current model, but I'm guessing it wasn't enough to cross that arbitrary cancellation line. I still can't wrap my head around the Primaris units by name, for that matter it stands to reason that the entire Primaris came about to close the copyright gap as well.
WHFR dies for much the same reason. It was one of the better roleplay systems, and had engaging modules.
Mmmmm your tears are salty af, gw is doing better than EVER BEFORE, aos spits on the old system in terms of quality
So one small issue with your theory here. You can't copyright names. It's literally copyright 101, barebasic rule of copyright. You can trademark names, but trademarks have very different rules to copyrights.
And even if your theory wasn't flawed on its very foundational level. How do you explain units named "Lord Executioner" or "Chosen" still being a thing? And guess what? Greatswords are still called Greatswords too!
Even if we do manage to beat GW and get everything that was stolen from us back, we would just end up going back to fighting amongst ourselves because like the Orks, we spend more time fighting each other than fighting our enemies
Fascinating! I remember a very xenomorph 'inspired' Hive tyrant back around 3rd edition. Was the Queen from Aliens. I remember being disappointed and thinking they could done better.
I believe (and I could be wrong here) that 20th Century Fox gave GW a taste of their own medicine with that one. Which is why the miniature was redesigned and OOP relatively quickly.
The 2nd edition Hormagaunt models (despite being a pain in the arse to get to balance) were also very representative of our favourite phallus-headed struggle snuggle space monster.
There was a time when people were able to judge other people, and we judged them by their actions. I Loved the skit, and the bit about how we all collectively agreed not to make fun of Michael Moorecock's name! (I'm coincidentally re-reading the Elric saga now).
Hey, I'm reading it for the first time right now! How about that.
It's almost like the hoarding of capital and laws that support publicly traded companies doing nearly anything to preserve profit are a bad thing. Who would have guessed?
As opposed to the govt massing all that power for themselves? Thank God that never goes wrong!
By all means preserve profit just don't be a douchebag. I don't know where you are from but do some digging on how the railroad industry in the US is being brought to its knees by those seeking to profit off it. They are making life living hell for the railroad workers just to line their pockets and they are causing massive issues with the supply chain.
@@cheeseburger12 False dichotomy.
@@armando_barreda Really? Let's compare bad pension companies and the federal govt and its social security program. In social security people are forced to pay in by penalty of law. And at some point. A lot of people that paid in are going to get ripped off an awful lot.
Another part to this story that has been left out is Gamza has put these files up on cults for free and they are great. i have them all and have printed off 40 necrons and saved a packet.
Ya that's why he is being shut down, duh
@@jtowensbyiii6018 no it wasnt he was selling them as part of his patron ass hole thats why they came for him for proffiting off their ip so he gave them away for free. Maybe look into things befor commenting and you wont look so ignorant or in your case stupid
*Knock off necron.
He's not doing anything that GW themselves haven't done....
@@alexpeterson5809 Oh i totally agree. I printed a load they are brilliant
The synopsis of Gamza in the beginning is like poetic gold.
As a former customer of Chapter House I would love to find out more about that situation.
Thank you for addressing this. A lot of artists are creating models that are way to similar to GW properties. I like to see models that are obvious "counts as" but clearly distinct and often improvements at least in style to GW models. I still hate seeing GW going after any alternative to their product, especially when they are completely unwilling to take advantage of a growing aspect of the hobby. If GW sold stls of weapons and bits, for a reasonable price and not by a GW reasonable price, they would get so much good PR from the community without hurting their own sales. I don't know why they bury their head in the sand on this.
Because they are the old bear in the market, unwilling to change and inevitably going to fall because of their inertia not allowing them to change with the times.
@@marine3250l good, I kind of hope they do fall and eat the dust, I myself swapped to battletech because of mech, and because they would let you use stand ins for any model and love customized models and paints, and they are cheaper because you don't need over 4 models to play a game. So a lot cheaper to get into. GW needs a reality check
@@allytank-itykitty7417 yeah I abandoned gw long ago, now if I'm purchasing gw stuff I do it used 🤣
Selling STL's would be a moronic business idea for GW. Once the files are out there they would be shared amongst the playerbase for free and GW would get almost nothing from them. Not a great idea.
@@dave-macleod and yet companies are finding a lot of success with just that, selling STLs.
GW just being GW. Plus silencing a vocal critic, and 3d printer is a win win win for GW
Considering the amount of newcomers in recent years, maybe a video on the chapter house trial isn't a bad idea.
I very much would like a vid on Chapter House.
GOD im so torn on this one. On the one hand gamza isnt the most "inviting to the public" personality for the product, on the other GW sending a cease and desist over his stl's is kinda scummy too
That's the thing. They don't disapprove of his antics because they think he's wrong per se, they disapprove because others might take offense at the shit he vomits daily and that might impact their brand. It's the wrong move, for the wrong reason, against someone who kind of deserves it, but not for being a plagiarist.
Understatement of the year with Gamza. He turned from a fanboy into one of the most vitriolic complainers of GW because of GW's clamp down on the fan community. There was a level of bitterness and anger to his videos post clamp down which was kind of shocking to see.
Your opinion on Gamza as a personality should be irrelevant. GW is in the wrong for shutting down small businesses that offer alternatives to their overpriced FOMO driven plastic.
I'm not one to generally protect GW, but the C&D is appropriate. This "product" by Gamza exists explicitly to undermine their business and as a competitor, and you cannot easily argue it merely as an homage.
@@JamesSerapio But... Isn't that competition? Competition as in what drives the market? It is not a straight copy and everyone can see that, so it's not like making fake Nike shoes. But it's close enough to compete for the business of people who love evil undead robots from space.
Gamers Workshop will never make their products cheaper and will keep bullying anyone who does a better job at making parts, or miniatures and actually knows how to use 3D design and a printer.
I feel better about taking a break from Warhammer 40k and working on Gundam/Gunpla models and much happier now.
Yep. In the end they're just driving customers away.
@@rangda_prime yeah.. but still, they will notr se it.. and they still shoot on whales...thats were their money comey from. People who buy 12 Landraiders to make a gigantic whatever-tank
Wish everyone would teach them a lesson by not buying anything from them for months on in.
Remember that every time you buy a GW product, you're funding GW lawyers.
I did a Google: Rich Whiteman was a jazz bassist.
I don't know, can't we just go back to a time when everybody just enjoyed everybody's work for what it was, I'm sure back in the 80s we did just that, I remember actually going to citadel miniatures and they would just cast whatever metal figs you wanted and everything was cool, crazy how things change so much
That's "God Emperor Gamza, beloved by all."
No judge made him do it, Patreon made him take them down. He also posted a new video 3 days ago saying he won that one, because GW didn't respond to them on the counter claim, allowing the reupload of his files. So, always push back against GW because they'll fold, because they know they have nothing to stand on, like the bullies they are.
Good on him for standing up to the Nottingham nutcases.
My deepest sympathies to Rich Whiteman on the recent passing of his great aunt. 😞 It's so sad to hear that she was killed in a tragic car accident. People should be very grateful to Rich for selflessly finding the strength to appear in this video during his period of mourning.
It was an especially trying time for him has had only been fixing her old car up a couple of days before. All that hard work wasted
at around 11:32 minutes, when Discourse proclaims an alternative path, millions of CEOs just cried out and fell ill to a sudden and mysterious death.
The fun and the hypocrisy of Games workshop is that each one of their ideas is like 10 other ideas all thrown into a blender. So most of their stuff could get sued by 10 different people. "Inspirations" include but are not limited to Dune, Starship Troopers the book, Starship Troopers the movie, The book Heart of darkness which inspired the film Apocalypse Now, and boy are they lucky no ancient mythologies and pantheons have anyone to sue over stealing their stuff. Ancient Egypt at least three different times between The Necrons, The Thousand Sons and Horus. That's right, Interesting little tidbit. The ancient Egyptian god Horus led a rebellion against Ra.
There is a reason why I found my way to Bolt Action/Konflikt 47 lately, even when admitting that I really enjoyed 40K in 9th edition after a long hiatus. It is really sad to see that GW after behaving for ONE edition of 40K again got back to their worst behavior against fans, against creators and against providers of alternative models.
TBH I really don't even like Gamza, he is IMO quite a moron in most of his videos and most of the time not really likable too. I also do not think that 3D printing will become a replacement for model companies like GW in the near future BUT 3D printing and also suppliers for 3D files like Gamza make our beloved hobby much more richer and interesting.
@@theDackjanielz 8th was well liked??? That burning turd was LIKED?!?!?!
The irony is that GW would never actually defend their IPs thru the legal process. They couldn't afford to either on a significant scale. But the fact they could do it once allows them to intimidate any small creator that can't even do it once. So the notion GW is "obligated" to defend their IP is ridiculous on its face.
@@actualwafflesenjoyer That's for trademark, not copyright.
So much of 40k is stolen too.
Frank herberts estate might want to look into this god emporer thing......
So happy to see a skit. I love the skits :D
they will be returning :D
@@DiscourseMinis Yay! Those are always fun!
Well.. Gamza slapped his wet one right in the face of GW... He literally stood there and asked them to take their best shot. And fire they did. Not to victim blame in general but in this case he kinda had it coming. That does not make what GW does any more right.. (after all the only reason we do not have Space Marines or Hight Elves any more are because those terms are common use and can´t be copyrighted) But as my old nan used to say... Two roosters fighting does not make a omelett... Or in other words.. two wrongs does not make one right. But the core problem here is compyright and how "fairly close" is very much good enough.
Ummm they backed down their claim and didn't go forward he made a video about it
He asked for it? Why because he shits on GW? because he sells 3D files and pushes the use of 3D printers over using GW? company's can't just fabricate ridiculous claims and go after someone just because "They asked for it".
Gamza did nothing wrong.
I agree with you with copyright on terms like Space Marine and Inquisitor, but I agree with GW with the copyright on Gamza because if I was given one of Gamza's models I would think it was a Necron model. The Space Marines I say have enough diversity in their model look that I could but some twists to how it looks and it could look completely different. I'll admit that the Imperial Guardsmen look a lot like starship troopers, but what makes them different is war gear as the two have very different looking wargear. Some Ork models definitely couldnt be copyrightable, but some could. What I'm personally trying to say is that the name copyrights are stupid I agree, but your argument for how necrons are like the terminators is like they're inspired, but not direct copy's like Gamza's. Necrons are inspired by terminators, but not exact copy's. The only thing that I couldn't tell the difference would be judge dread and the adeptus arbites.
I agree
Space Marines in 40k are very obvious knock offs of the Starship Troopers from the book the movie was based on. Humans in power armor which grants extreme strength and enhanced senses, who descend from orbit in drop pods, and who carry tank level weaponry. The Heinlein estate has the money to fight a lawsuit with GW and if they could get the Herbert estate in as well it would be glorious.
“Art Theft is cool if a little guy is stealing from a big guy.” -Discourse, July 2022
The only thing I find humourous about this is how far Gamza is willing to go for a bit of attention. Dude is a walking bike and spoke meme.
Yeah but he said na then beta gw backed down cause they didn't have a case at all
@@Kingofsea7591 That doesn't make me like him more. He's a victim at most. Being a victim is not something worthy of praise.
@@armando_barreda how is he a victim if gw backed down winning against them
“Good artists copy. great artists steal”
-Pablo Picasso
100% with you on your analysis. I used to really like them as a company. But since about 2000 they have become shadier and shadier to the point that I no longer really care about their products.
GW: YOU CAN'T DEFEAT US, GAMZA, YOU SONOWABIAAAATCH!!
Gamza: No, I can.
GW: *angry pigs sounds*
The wrath of Butter Milk Bob is now ingrained into GW.
How poetic
@@GGallade It looks like his anger was so strong that his toilet couldn't handle such an exterminatus xD
I'm waiting for them to try and go after OPR. It's going to happen. That they haven't tried yet is honestly kind of the amazing part.
it could happen for sure.
Not a lot they could go after them for. It's not a breach of copyright or trademark to market yourself as a better version of someone else's product, in fact trying to prevent someone doing so runs quite a big risk of putting you on the wrong side of fair competition legislation.
Opr is too big already they could afford some lawyers gw Likes easy pickings
@@markwatson8714 Yes, but I mean, Discourse's whole point was that they have zero ground to stand on yet still do it anyway gambling on the smaller company giving in before it even hits a court.
@@albundy5492 Here's hoping!
I think the best thing Gaetano ever did was to start moving away from all things even sniffing of GW. OPR can and should stand alone. It's not just "free 40k/AoS alt" and deserves to be seen as such.
The term Plasteel didn't actually originate with 2000AD either. I'm not entirely sure Harry Harrison created Plasteel and Ferroconcrete but he certainly used them in his 1961 novel "The Stainless Steel Rat"... though it is said that there aren't any original stories any more I do wish GW had been just a little more creative in their plagerism ;)
I don't know who came up with plasteel, but ferroconcrete is an engineering term originating in the 19th c., for the practice of reinforcing concrete with iron/steel rods or rebar, which itself goes back another hundred years. You might have been thinking of ceramite, (used alongside plateel and adamantium in power armor) and it's possible GW thought they coined that one, but it's apparently a hard building stone the color of red clay tiles, and the registered trademark of an electronic component company for their ceramic capacitors. They can fight with Disney over adamantium, lol.
At this point I've lost hope for GW as a company. They have been doing this sort of thing for decades, and a company that doesnt adapt with the times or use new technology to their advantage deserves to slowly die off. Use their own Corpo logic against them.
As for Gamza he's a bit of an edge lord with a chip on his shoulder. Entertaining, but mostly harmless. He didn't deserve to get slapped with the Law Hammer.
My favorite was what has happened with Raging Heroes. When they were really small time, they had a manticore model that they made a lamassu alternate head for. They got a C&D from GW for that part...Just as the WHFB Storm of Magic expansion was launching, along with GW bringing their own *ancient* lamassu model back to sale.
After the Chapterhouse trail RH has went full throttle on making entire alternative model lines for GW armies, as well as a few of their own fun lines lol
Well they backed down because they were in the wrong, Pretty much he done what Chapter House did years ago and they won their cases but it ruined them, also there are countless ther stuff much like that all over the place online be it on MMF, Pateron, gumtree etc...
Don't forget that the main reason Chapter House 'suceeded' was because they made things that GW didnt. That's why GW now flat out refuse to have rules for models that don't exist (even down to loadouts for characters)
I remember the Space Marine book case
There was a search for terms in the sphere of wargaming, not that trademarks can't lapse, or that prior use is not contentious, but the point with "Space Marines" as a term in wargaming pre-dates GW's use of it, in FGU's figure wargame "Space Marines"
You’ve gotta remember back to the 90’s when FASA got weaker to the point they went out of business by an American distributor of Robtech claiming battle tech infringed there IP.
Well FASA was guilty.
Ah,"Harmony Gold, the OG trademark trolls.
Hardly, all the unseen designs are now available again as Harmony Good had no right to.stop Fasa using them!
@@paulhalforc1889 FASA was stupid; first for using the designs with different names, and for deciding to fight instead of making small changes since they were not selling Macross or Dougram models. The current unseen mechs are redesigns. Marauder and Wasp had to be completely changed
And I love the Dougram and Crusher Joe mechs especially.
And I really love in Dougram when the "battlemaster" mech was wearing a legit snowsuit.
Anime is so weird.
He deserved it. He actually told another young man on his other channel that he was wrong for being gay and he needs to try to fix himself. What a pos
"He was mean so he deserved to be oppressed"
Would be interested to hear more about Chapter house
There's a decent (if explicit) article on 1d4chan
Perhaps someone needs to set up a tabletop gaming convention and ban games workshop products. See how they like that.
a lot of gamza's 3d prints were literal 1 to 1 copies of 40k minis, he got what he deserved. thieves cant be thieveing
meanwhile at gw shops 50% of players 3d print complete armies and no one noticed lmaooo
They already dropped their case, he can do whatever he wants with his files
It's funny that GW a company that stole multiple ideas from other IP's sue other because they claim IP imfrigement. I just wish someone would sue GW for copyright imfrigement and they lose hard. I doubt that this would teach them humility but at least they would know what it feels like.
‘GOD DAMB GAMZA YOU SONOFABIACH’
I've made Gamza's proxies, and threw him some money. I also have them backed up on drive after drive, in case they ever get pulled. But so far, Cults3d have been great to deter corpo influence
That's another good point in this, them going after him will change nothing. The files are out there and can be distributed by anyone. They're just so hopelessly behind the curve.
I can vouch for that. Cults3D are very helpful with my stuff as well.
So you're why prices are so high and gw keeps shutting down you people, theives
@@jtowensbyiii6018 totally wrong with that bud. GW's constant price hikes stem from them joining the stock market & investors fervent greed 20ish years ago. 3d printing has only been around 1/3 to a 1/4 off that time & even then that's only starting to get good.
I ran Chapterhouse. If you want some facts let me know.
We weren’t bankrupt by the case, I stopped the business because of the burnout from the legal battle.
I really wanted that awesome conversion kit to make a Rhino look like the RT rhino. Shame to see your range go! Some cool stuff.
I still have most of the stock available I just don’t have the site going anymore.
@@Chapterhouse53 would love to touch base if you have a way of getting in touch.
And let’s be honest, Gamzas Russ tanks had 58 bolts modeled on it and GW had 60 bolts. Totally different.
Being an old boy seeing blister packs drop from 4 metal minis to 3 in the mid nineties, it feels that gw got super focused on minmaxing profit, ignoring their borrowed ideas. And now they have to be the loudest dog to try and keep others away. But 3d printing is something that really needs to be embraced as it's only going to get cheaper and more accessable.
Man I wish the Warhammer hobby had more people making miniatures besides games workshop they way over charge for the amount of plastic in their models
There are many creators out there that do sell "Warhammer" like models, many shown on the channel
There are lots of companies making nice proxies. For example, if I were starting an Imperial Guard army today I would go with Wargames Atlantic :)
Thanks for the heads up. I used the terminology "Warhammer hobby" so we can take their name from them per the last copyright video from discourse.
Check out Mantic Games
@@DiscourseMinis or Spiral Arm Studios (Maelstrom's Edge) - they even sell terrain greeblie sprues and have links to "how to make things using our greeblie sprues"
Yes going over the chapeterhouse case would be very helpful since you are a real lawyer.
@bobalooby sunshine Are you a GW fan?
If every judge read Dune before hearing a GW case they would never win one.
Make what you want of gamza and his views, GW deserve all the shit they get. They have copied and pasted every bit of medieval, fantasy and sci-fi genre's they can get their skaven-esque mits on. Would love to see the owners of the Dune trademark flatten GW now.
Frank herbert estate could fuck gw up.
So much of the setting is dune with the names changed.
Tolkien and Herbert estates could neatly split up GW into thirds with Moorcock.
Hurra! Old good Discourse showing us sketches! =) Love you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Got to love their IP protection because so many of the ideas they trade on have always been taken from the wider sci-fi and fantasy genre. These days they simply now just throw their weight and use of expensive lawyers around against those who can't afford to fight them.
In the late 70's there was an Anime called "Star Blazers" and in one of the Episodes they featured a character called "Sgt Kox" who lead a group of "Space Marines" against Gamelon forces.
You're addressing an important issue in a clear-eyed and reasonable way, yet what I take the most from this vid is, "yay, more skits!". That's on me.
Perfectly understandable Rob
I have been wanting to get a Mordheim band started ever since I looked over the PDF of the rules in 2004.
Then one day at my local flgs I saw on the used area for sisters of Sigma minis which I purchased.
Recently on Etsy I saw for $41 a set of 15 3D print minis of the sisters.
For $41 I am getting five novices, five sisters, three sister superiors, an augur and a Matriarch.
If I remember correctly $40 got you eight sisters of sigmar.
What a deal now all I got to do is just wait.
I'm currently having fun building up my warbands for the other official ones like the witch hunters all I really need to use is a reaper mini which already uses a witch hunter. I'm going to start working on a undead warband and I also have skin models I don't really need to use more time models I can just use my own models from The collection I have built over the years
It's curious to me that Ravaged Star by MWG Dave has not been attacked by GW. Maybe they are too big / too powerful in the hobby?
The MWG guys are pretty prudent so probably consulted with a copyright lawyer. They aren't using any GW trademarked names/designs, and there's not a direct congruency to the design language of the miniatures.
I'd be really interested in seeing a full blow-by-blow of the chapter house debaucle.
You judge Gamza too hard. He is VERY progressive: unlike other uber-men, he WOULD allow you to leave the house to work. As long you remember to keep the house clean.. /s
Had me at the first half
Gamza beat GW ending with Patreon threatening to ban GW if they did it again
Interesting, thanks for the followup.
Gamza had it coming. He kept tugging on the tail of GW and they finally turned around and gave him the bite he was looking for. What they did to him or at least tried to do to him. It was just a warning implying they can go even further next time.
People wanna keep trifling with these big companies and somehow think they're untouchable. Sorter reminds me of the guys that kept messing with Nintendo.
In this case, it seems kinda like GW wasn't in absolute wrong, but i might be wrong. It's not like GW isn't doing the big corpor copyright abuse tactic of throwing around copyright claims and, if they are in the wrong, they won't suffer any consequences - for poor people and small businesses, the trial process itself is the punishment.
"Space Marine" copyright is just plain ridiculous for example, but that's how it is. GW and other big businesses like trying to abuse their money and just keep hoarding copyright, which they, in an ideal situation, wouldn't be able to hoard, cause they know that if someone decides to fight them, that person wi just go bankrupt while fighting off frivolous bs lawsuits.
@@Alex-cq1zr The Space Marine copyright is still one the dumbest things they tried to do. That's why they had to start using Astartes a lot more. I think they also had a similar copyright issue with the Eldar at one point.
What bite? His patreon is up and running and GW hasn't answered his counterclaim.
@@abelbabel8484, This is a lesson for him. He now knows GW can come after him anytime and I am sure if they wanted they could've answered him on his counterclaim.
@@Trinioutsider34 On the contrary, he has the written assurance of patreon that they now hold GWs claims to be spurious and will not comply with any future takedown requests.
He's bulletproof now.
Oh damn that Yamaguchi reference. Going for the deep cuts from history.
*sigh* It’s getting harder and harder to be a fan :/
its like we still in Medieval times, You need to be rich to have justice. Please do not spend a dime on GWS people. Lets play all the other games, Lets buy all the other models. ITs the only way to destroy this evil who picks on week people.
The truth is that no matter how many times this occurs thousands and thousands of people will continue to buy their products and support them. GW knows this. For me I have been playing other games and painting those models like Warmachine and Malifaux and Conquest. For me I know I’m happier in the hobby now.
It's because people like myself enjoy the lore and the models that GW makes of.
Holy shit the Kangaroo Court was exactly what I needed today to brighten my mood. The video on the whole was really good (I mean, your content is good so no surprise) but the Court segment just... chef's kiss
I have to say it. I don't like Gamza. Never have. Never will. And I also have to admit, that he was blatantly marketing his product as the cheaper GW alternative. His designs are also very close to *some* GW sculpts, but nevertheless original designs in my opinion.
That does not stop me from thinking, that GW and their tactics are despicable.
That is one of the reasons, why I stopped buying their product years ago. The others are:
1. Their games are crap.
2. Their sculpts are mediocre at best, although production quality is good.
3. Their pricing is abusive.
So, in order to save the hobby, we, as consumers, need to band together and vote with our money and stop buying their product, until such time, that GW changes their way. I know that a boycott will probably not work, but let's try to make sure, that more and more customers jump ship and stop buying their product.
So promote the guy you claim to dislike, because he is doing the exact thing you want us all to do. "I dislike the guy doing what I want us all to do" seems like a weird fucking take.
@@samhobbs9116 I don't like Gamza as a person or persona, hence MY choice not to support him, just as it is MY choice not to buy from GW anymore, because I do not like their tactics. Gamza is not the only content creator out there.
It is also MY choice to support other content creators that produce miniatures and models and game systems.
Nothing weird about my take, least of all fucking weird, to put it in your terms.
@@travelminipainter No it's definitely weird.
Finally Discourse slips in a Night Lords reference! I've only been waiting like a year now for this moment! ................ Ahhh.............worth every click!
Bethesda has the rights to the word “scrolls” they come at people all the time who put that word in any title. This is pretty common stuff. Sucks but not something only GW does just something all companies with IP do.
Yeah, trademark bullying is endemic to a lot of industries, it needs to be regulated.
@@DiscourseMinis i agree. Often the legal departments are so far removed from the dev and creators that they just attack everything. They are not into the hobby they are in to suing people and court cases. But I agree this stuff needs to be reigned in you cannot claim ownership of words like “scroll” or “ space marine” they are just too general.
I'm a bit surprised GW didn't go after FASA Corporation because one of the battlemech in the Battletech game is called the Warhammer which is also known by two other names but licensing is a crazy beast at times! However, FASA was facing its own legal issues with Harmony Gold (Robotech) at the time and GW back then wasn't that awful and possessive of a company in the mid 1990s. Their fall from grace came (I believe) at the start of the 2010s. Also, Heinlein came up with the concept of the trooper in powered armor in his 1963 Novel *Starship Troopers* (the anime is 100X better than the Verhoven movie!!)
Heinlein's, Megacity's, and Star Wars' ideas of powered armour are probably why some GW's most detailed lore is the genetic engineering of the 7-8ft Astartes and the bonding to the black carapace. To distinguish the idea as unique and not directly derivative.
Also, they can't just sue for the term Warhammer. It's very much about if it creates market confusion in any way. Their branding of Warhammer a for a series of games and now a chain of stores.
I'm not sure its a huge red flag GW goes after small creators and not large corporations. Because large corporations have legal departments who are smart enough not to commit copyright infringement. Pepsi isn't making Ultramarine flavored soda. Disney didn't announce a Tau Disney+ show this weekend. Even Blizzard who everyone says stole Starcraft and Warcraft from GW weren't dumb enough to make Jim Raynor into a Primaris and make the Zerg into a HiveFleet.
ChapterHouse Studio was straight up making "Space Marine White Scars Captain" as a product. And CHS studios very specifically didn't win their trial and then went bankrupt, they were ordered to pay GW like $30,000 in damages for all the claims GW won in court, which was like a full 1/3rd of them.
Gamza was just straight up selling a Necron model. Smaller creators think they're too small for notice, that laws only apply to big corporations. And that's not how it works. People don't just get a pass because they can't afford a legal team.
Hey Lee, I didn't want to go too deep into Chapterhouse in this, that would take a full video to really deconstruct and talk about as it's quite complicated. I know what you mean regarding larger companies being smarter about how they graft from other properties but tbh I think in practice that's not quite true & there's lots of other properties that GW COULD argue cribbed quite heavily from them but they don't even blink an eye. Whereas when it comes to less powerful individuals and companies, GW constantly overreach in what they think they own & where they decide to act. They don't go after bigger companies because it would an expensive litigation that they could potentially lose. That fear doesn't exist for smaller content creators. GW's behaviour definitely fits the pattern of trademark bullying.
And I disagree on whether that model was truly a Necron or not, but ultimately it's a spectrum.
GW caved because they were in the wrong.
@@DiscourseMinis Basically, other companies can pay lawyers to tell GW to piss off. Small creators can't.
It was a sixty forty split in the end no money did trade hands and gw had to pay own legal costs (Charterhouse was probono) so no one won but gw lawyers had assets frozen and other plays that destroyed Charterhouse
So... I should change the name of my 28mm wholly non-eroticsci-fi skirmish game, Scuffle-Maul 69,000?
Space Marine is too generic a term.
This is so true and I can relate as I have had a similar situation. One of the more recent GW offenders is the blatant rip-off of Artel W’s Ironboss to make the new Ork Warboss in MegaArmor.
Gamza is an abrasive and unlistenable fellow (IMO) but his works are no more plagaristic than any others. I mean there are people scanning FW models and selling the STLs on ETSY. GW would do better going after those. Gamza does like to poke the bear though, so i can't feel too sorry for him.
I'm not sure if Cadians are the best example. The plastic ones seem to be pretty obviously inspired by the metal ones that predate the Starship Troopers movie.
It is a sad day when the irish get to take shoes for granted...
bloody english
@@DiscourseMinis Never should have allowed them outside the potato mines, I say. Once the irish are out of the pit, there is no putting them back in.