The Truth About 5v5 in Overwatch 2.....
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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I disagree.
6v6 was worse because you had worse performance with the extra player.
Five players on each team means you get a lot better frame rate. You also have better carry potential. And there’s less stuff going on which means less visual clutter.🎉
@@cloudGGs bro what. Do you got a degree in yappin 💀
the experimental 1-3-2 was still better then 1-2-2 imo
@@cloudGGs that's a you problem. get some glasses, a higher refresh rate monitor, and a better CPU/GPU in your PC. all those problems are on you, not the game.
First i don’t believe that 6v6 is the right solution to the game because the balance team will never a-dress the core issues.
I think the right solution is 5v5 open queue but, with some adjustment
What if when you start the game on open queue and if 2 players choose support the role will be closed.
meaning maximum is 2 players from same role.
This will make the game diverse
And you can change between the roles
For more details
2 tank 1 DPS 2 support
Or
1 tank 2 DPS 2 support
Or
2 tank 2 DPS 1 support
Somehow, despite the game making like 5 times less money in a year than Overwatch 1 did in a few months, the esports ending, the massive amount of info we got that proves 5v5 has been ruining game balance, etc.....these people STILL believe it's better all because random youtubers told them double shield was bad and apparently the only meta to exist besides GOATS.
If shields actually were a problem......how come they were NEVER an issue during launch when there were no hero limits? You could have 3, 4 Reinhardts and this problem STILL didn't happen. Almost like the issue was the horrid balancing later on and the addition of ridiculously broken abilities like Baptiste's immortality field.
There's a word for those people. Drones
Imagine a game that is exactly the same as overwatch except when you type a 200 character password (somehow the game prevents you from alt tabbing and searching it) you instantly win, this wouldn't be an issue for a long time but after a while the game would be ruined.
Because overwatch on launch was dog shit people queing for whatever the fuck they wanted even if it meant throwing your games is garbage
Lmao you just repeated everything you heard in this video and call others drones? The irony
Too many shields was the problem. As DPS you couldn’t get a big ult off because shields would pop up all around you.
No I actually saw this video a day before Samito posted it I just needed someone with a better explanation to point the obvious. Samito just happened to watch this same video I watched in his free time and made a video about it. Lol@@TheOtherDoughnut
I hope that with quicker play, we get a 6v6 experiment and just make it the way it was.
We should just replace open queue with 6v6. Most open queue games run a 2 tank 2 support comp anyways, so it wouldn't hurt anything, but it would bring a million players back.
I TALK WYD HERE
@@P-39_Airacobra that old mode lost more players than 5v5 ever did but ok
@@knightsky4438 what mode?
This is not Fortnite
"This is why two tanks was bad!" shows several clips of baptiste turning bastion immortal.
Which btw would happen again in ow2 with bap+lifeweaver and guess who? Sigma.
@@batatanna yeah but bastion is not on permanent sentry form any more
@@Bismarck9871 but now got insane mobility instead
@@batatanna doesn't mean anything
means he can get into some weird angles and then get out free because of lw. Which used to be a bigger problem but since now's dev team is much better it got patched quicker
@@Sunderpun1
I wish they'd let us just try 6v6 in a gamemode or Quick play for a weekend or something I think the entire community would be behind it once they see how it feels freshly in their minds again vs 5v5.
They reworked the game completely so that won’t work or have nearly the same feel as og 6v6
No entirely true but I do feel it wouldn't work well with all the buffs
@@Flightkid90of course they should rebalance a bit, but who cares, it would be a blast, I'm all for it!
Customs
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 5vs5 dont work and still there is
6v6 was so much better for the average player. You never saw these broken “metas” in ranks below low gm tbh. Down in plat-diamond it was always something different and the game felt good. You felt like you had more control as a tank to do what you want. Now the only thing you can do as tank is stand in-front of the enemy tank or else you are throwing. 6v6 is the only thing that can save this game.
I enjoy current way more
This man has more passion than the actual devs 😂 gotta respect honesty
6v6 needs to come back bro keep preaching
It does 100%!
The devs split the community by introducing 5v5. No one was even thinking about player size until overwatch 2.
Overwatch 2 as a tank player feels like blizzard shot your best friend and gave you the smoking gun to hold when the cops show up. It makes me so sad what this game turned into. This whole thing has genuinely made me want to start working on games and try and get hired by blizzard so at least theres 1 person who cares about the fucking game in the company.
I completely agree, with all the changes on heros like Orisa who dosent even have a barrier anymore, 6v6 most likely wasnt the problem, when i play tank it feels like the whole enemy team is after me, cuz they know if i go down the whole team goes down, then i get yelled at for not being a better tank
Bring back 6v6
Samito is truly a goat for making this video, MUSIC TO MY EARS. HES HEAVILY STUDIED THE GAME. BLIZZARD NEEDS TO LISTEN
Wrecking ball never survived the transition to 5v5 over a year later. Tragic.
I felt the same way when they added Role Queue to fight Goats when 90% of the players couldn't pull it off because it took teamplay and started the whole "it takes forever to find a game because no one wants to play tank" that snowballed into 5v5
Please keep applying pressure to bring back 6v6.
I literally can't even say anything on the subreddit without getting crucified.
I cant wait for Overwatch 3 where we get back to 6v6 and get 10 minutes of the Overwatch movie every three seasons for $15
As a tank main, i can't stand the current format. It's ridiculous and the only thing Blizzard do is make excuses and refer us to their 'numbers'.. I call bullshit on their numbers. They're so disconnected from their community it's ridiculous..
How on earth they didn't figure out they should've dropped the barriers health pools or the lamp timer is beyond me. 8 seconds for the lamp with 250 hp where you could just hide it behind a corner and bunker it down with double barriers is just ridiculous.
The major issue, is that they didn't even bother tweaking each hero to fit into 5v5, especially support heroes and tanks. They figured removing one tank was enough and didn't even bother looking at support/tanks and their kits, before it was too late. Some heroes haven't even been tweaked for 5v5 yet..
6v6 could've been so much better if the balancing team and the management team had functional brains and actually tried to balance the stuff that was so obviously unbalanced.
All we can do now is wait and see what happens post lay offs and whether or not Microsoft put people who know what they're doing on Team 4.
Also something else to point out that you didn’t mention sam was that Orisa was completely reworked. She was insanely essential to bunker comps, and maybe she would have still been used but her shield being gone is massive.
All they had to do was rework sigs kinetic grasp, nerf the other shields and do small reworks. Released ram and jq. Then things would have worked out. And the changes to cc plus a baptiste nerf and or rework as well
I think that the problem is tanks were designed to mitigate damage with shields, now that reworks have happened I’m sure that things will be much better for example orisa rework gets rid of sig orisa double shield. There’s also characters to bypass shields now like ramattra and junkerqueen. I think that trying 6v6 again with the reworked tanks could work, it may also help with the problem that nothing dies, considering now there is another large health pool to keep up meaning the window of opportunity is greater. Tanks like wrecking ball and Winston are extremely hard to work with their team because they aren’t designed to take ALL the attention of the enemy team. I do think that some of the older tanks like Reinhardt do need some attention as well to get their kits to the same level as others
6v6 is the way to move forward..
Amen!
Well overwatch moved to a 5v5 format not because of gemeplay reasons but because they knew they were blizzard and about to batter overwatch 2 wich no one would play a year after release just so you could find games faster i hope this explanation helps you Samito and shines a light on blizzards greatness
People who defend 5v5 and say double shield was the reason 6v6 was bad literally have -4 braincells.
instead of 6v6, my camp is 5v5 but 5 roles instead of 3. 2 extra roles being flex tank and flex sup. This requires half of the dps, tank, sup heroes to be soft reworked and shift to flex tank and flex sup role. example: mei > flex tank, sym > flex sup etc.. main tanks would be rein, ram, sig, orisa, winton
People that still defend 5v5, where now you only have to bully their tank and snowball through the entire enemy team.
Because this is more fun, and by going 5v5 you can experience a more diverse gameplay this way....
In 5v5 if your tank dies you’re team is fcked
Its not about 6v6 vs 5v5, its about role queue vs open queue, and about the balance philosophy chronically boosting tank and support characters to make people wanna play them just as much as people wanna play dps. If you make it 5v5 open queue, and make tanks dps and supports all equally balanced, meaning any combination of roles is viable, you fix the game. Maximally suppress hard counter dynamics, remove 1 shots and immos, make rezz an ult and make mercy have to manage her resources, and you not only fix it but make it great.
Brig was so overpowered on released that she caused a chain reaction of massive buffs to other heroes that lead to other shitty metas.
Mei Freeze was better. Doomfist uppercut was better. Bring back 6v6!
Double shield was great and it caused an actual front line to exist.
Exactly!
Can't play ball like I did in OW1, I have zero front line presence and just pop instantly. I can't play doom like I did in OW1 because his kit got gutted for 5v5 and just crumbles without the perfect team comp and playing ultra passively. These are the only 2 characters I was good at and practiced a lot of mechanics to improve my value on the field, both as an off-tank AND a dps... But now I can't even play the game because I'm forced to play the rock-paper-scissors tank bs and can't get anywhere NEAR the value I did in OW1 being an annoying pest in the backline. The removal of the off-tank role and moving doom across roles has completely killed the game for me.
Samito game design > ow devs game design
As a bronze to Plat player double sheild was was never a problem at my ranks playing 6v6.
This is totally based. When it was announced OW2 was going to a 5v5 format, I thought to myself "Hmm, okay. This will be different. I'll play it for a while and see how I feel." Well, after about 4-5 months I realized that it was crap, and I've been a 6v6 advocate ever since. I literally have more fun playing open queue in 5v5 than role queue, and I almost never queue tank. I literally didn't have a rank on tank for two seasons because I hated it so much.
Loved overwatch 1 as a casual tank player , not played overwatch 2 since it replaced my og game as Team play is virtually non existent from what i have seen since 5 v 5, i miss 6v6 much more fun. All they had to do was split the tank roles into main and off tank, only 1 of each could be picked.
I wish we could've seen Ram as a tank in 6v6, genuinely could've been a good solution to double shield. Even tankfist might've been more bearable to play as an off tank, being able to make plays without eating up all the CC would've made for a way better gameplay loop than cycling slam-punch on and off for ult charge the entire match.
The supports are arguably strong enough individually for there to really just be one. They could try 2-2-1 which might give some of the player agency back to tanks and allow for a more dynamic gameplay of playing keep away from the supports.
Samito always with refreshing takes. No one analyzes harder.
This video covers exactly what I thought when I returned from Overwatch 1 to O2 since years of not playing. Also to add, there is no 2nd tank to protect the backline supports as the game became an endless diving the supports to progress. Its so 1 dimensional.
the hero we need
A 6v6 mode would be great or a 5v5 open queue mode that is actually cared for and i wouldnt be against having a role cap in open queue either so you cant have 3 tanks which makes it boring or the other way around where 3 idiots pick dps which is extremely fucking annoying
Overwatch 1 was a classic case of designing things to be interesting and/or cool and they succeeded in that however, that doesn't work in competitive scenarios since the goal posts will always move around as teams work together to find different strategies, sadly there is no sweet spot you have to lean into one or the other, sure you can have elements of cool and competitive but there will always be something in the way of making them as enjoyable as they could be if you go all in, you can typically split the game in half though where you have duplicates but adjusted for the scenario which is more work but more worth it I find.
double shield and 5v5 being standard for esports were the only 2 reasons we went to 1 tank. Orisa no longer has a shield, both rein and sigs shield have less health. And there's now characters who can ignore shields. OW esports is doing a full revamp so there's no reason to not have 6v6 come back and have tank duos be amazingly fun again.
The last fps to Win GOTY was BioShock (2008)
Not just that you also could pull the team into sig ult with orisa lmao 🤣
As a support main 6v6 was so much better. We didnt do as much damage but we could actually "support" the team instead of being glorified DPS. As much as i enjoy Illari, I like healing more.
As someone that fluctuated in OW1 between gold and diamond, it always felt like the game was being balanced around the Overwatch league meta comps. The diamond players would use them fine but in gold/plat those comps were hot poo. The need for trying to always balance OWL watchability and trying to control metas is what made 6v6 unfun. It took all the organic chaos out of the game that it had when it was nominated for GotY and turned it into a sterile match with two identical comps every match by the end. If you weren't great with the characters of that meta, you're going to hate that season. OW2 feels the same way now except it's blantanly OP hero releases to sell DLC that are creating that sterile boring environment.
Another banger samito, I can't wait to see your tank video
How many 5v5 videos we gonna have? Samito milking this.
Even if they brought back 6v6, it would not work. The entire engine, geometry and structure of the game was changed in ow2. Maps were shrunked, models, code etc etc. Hopefully Microsoft see's what these guys did and brings back ow1 source engine and servers. Only way. Such a shame what the ow2 team did, they took some god like code from people from M.I.T and around the world and just destroyed it, deleted it.
I agree with the point of 6v6 being better for the game, but I still like 5v5 better. As a tank main, I like having all the pressure on me, but I get why people don't like that.
Amen! Brother
We should seriously spam Phil Spencer and go over blizzards head
It might sound ridiculous (and is) but he’s been proven to actually play their games (infamous clip of him in fallout 76)
I genuinely think that if there’s even a chance of getting the game to change for the better it would have to come down from all high.
The funny thing bout this vid when I watched it, was that tanks didn’t do nothing crazy that proved that we need one tank.
Can we atleast just make 6v6 a game mode in OW2 as an event and see what happens plz? Tanks maybe be more over powered but I mean we can tune shit back.
When OW1 had won the Game of the Year award, it was not that busted yet, btw, sam... this is obvious. There were not that many things to abuse in this game. However, all of that was not particularly a 6v6 issue, it was always team4's issue on balancing the game. Hence, it does not matter if it is 5v5 or 6v6, they will find ways to keep this game in a broken state in terms of balance.
Yeah that's sort of the point in the first place. Community is trying to prove that 6v6 was better and keeps being met with "but double shield".
The whole point is: if the average match for most players looked like this back in 2016, would it ever have a chance at being acknowledged as the game of the year by a general public? Nominated maybe.. but a win? Very unlikely.
The format influences the gameplay which influences the highs and lows that come with it at every turn - which defines how exciting matches feel and those affect emotions and experience of the player as a whole.
Tanks die for support crimes has been the motto of Overwatch since season 3.
Most people sadly only have the memory of a Goldfish its sad how many people refuse to see what is happening in front of them.
i remember when Orisa came out i loved playing Orisa then they buffed her to all hells and i lost interest the bad balance made the game feel bad after the OW2 update the game felt garbage i quit after two days.
people struggle admitting when something they like has issues but if you really love something you will point out all of the the issues since you want it at its best not at its worse
For the most part all that was needed to make 6v6 great is CC tuning and shield health / shield removals
Orisa & Sigma's barriers weren't the primary issue, it was Fortify & Kinetic Grasp making the ranged tanks too survivable against brawl and dive comps, which is why we saw Orisa + Sigma mirrors all the time.
Que times will go insane with 4 tank players in every game.
MB 1 tank with 3 dps?
Honestly they should have a quickplay weekend that brings back 6v6.
Now we really don't have to be worried because Blizzard will fix it with self-heal passive for everyone so that every hero can feel easy to play in low ranks.
WTH Blizzard! you cant make every hero viable in low ranks as well as high skill in top ranks. Just look at what they are planing with Tracer. That hero required a lot of skill and now devs are dumbing that hero so it can have great impact in low ranks, but they forgot that she will end up busted in top ranks.
Actually it was a couple of fps that was game of the year halo was one of them got to remember before goty awards which is barley over 10 years old it was other originations doing it
I don't know how long we need to talk about the OG heroes being better than most of the DLC heroes until the dev team actually does something about it
Sam absolutely destroyed the double shield excuse. It wasn't the shields. It was the lamp, brig, orisa sc, pull and fortify, sigma grasp and rock. All DLC heroes and abilities you had to deal with once you get past the shields. OW1 Hanzo ult gives no fcks about shields, and guess what? Nothing dies to Hanzo dragons, not because shields.. but because of Bap lamp. Double shield pro 5v5 indoctrination dies today. Rein / Winston double shield was in the game forever and never used or was never oppressive.. not because of shields.. but because Rein and Winston did not have extra abilities to make such a comp work Also brig and bap were not in the game til llater. Thank you Sam
Dva player preach the word i say this everytime you win or slightly do well on dva its instant laster tag vs mei,zar,sym,maybe moria,zen then just roll over die be sad game over ... fun ❤😊
edit: but everything you said, is true sam. I want to play tank but all this makes it so depressing especially if solo queued or going against xims
QUOTE MY GOAT
I don't think even if Blizzard knew what it was doing would have fixed Overwatch's problems. Since yeah, they were going through Developers quicker than UBISOFT.
Having the train new developers on Overwatch's mechanics is probably why Overwatch 2's Developers are so heavy in using the nerfbat.
problem is the made it 5v5 without adjusting ANY of the existing heroes they designed for 6v6 so they game just constantly feels like its in a constant open beta until they get it right
*begins slow clap* not a falshood to be found
The sad part is even if the devs agreed that 6v6 was better, I'm sure their biggest fear is that it would be yet another massive PR blow to revert another huge feature that justified the "2" in the title. At this point though, who cares, the people who are gonna hate are gonna hate no matter what.
this guy goes into such depth nice
For me the great thing about this 5v5 v 6v6 discussion is that top players disagree about it. I know at least KarQ is very much in favor of 5v5. It shows that even in the toppest of top ranks, there's not always one correct solution to a problem. It encourages lower rank players like me to have opinions too.
I, a plat player, am pro 6v6.
Heroes being badly balanced is why they made 2-2-2. It’s also why they went from 6v6 to 5v5. 5v5 means that your tank gets countered super easily and if they don’t switch (or your supports to help them) you’re basically screwed. Counter picking is more of a requirement than ever and most people refuse to switch or simply can’t play the hero needed. 5v5 was a mistake. Add that in with the rank inflation and the fact that the highest rank feels like a circus and complete luck of the draw in terms of what kind of skill level your teammates and opponents will have, and you have exactly why ow2 is a failure.
Get em Sam!!! Only streamer even touching this obvious point. 6v6 was better.
I’d be down if they considered a 6v6 game mode and have both so this conversation can end. 6v6 wasn’t better in my opinion but I can also see people’s opinion on some of it. Tired of seeing people complain about this when the dev team will more likely have no intention of going back to this.
BRING back 6v6
Just go back to 6 v 6 . How can they fumble the ball THIS HARD!!!!!!! Sheesh im so sick of it.
Holy Crap I remember how strong bap was
He is right, people who disagree have not even a minimal grasp on how the game works
I’ve been watching your videos because I wasn’t sure 6v6 was better, but it’s so clear now🥹😭💔 I remember how upset I was when 5v5 was announced but the copium was strong… and I may need another hit ‘cause this makes me wanna cry actually lmfaoooo BRING BACK OVERWATCH
6v6 wasnt the problem, the balance was
exactly man
Balance is easier with less people
@@Literally___Me it's not the number of people. It's the balance team who's incapable of doing anything right
@@Literally___Me I mean you say that but one of the heroes causing problems for 6v6 was reworked entirely going into OW2, and it honestly feels like some of the new heroes - most notably the tanks - are being designed for a 6v6 environment still
All they had to do is rework Orisa, release very few shield centric tanks and gg.
6v6 felt strategic 5v5 is just call of duty with abilities Overwatch lost its identity im just happy I got to play it in its prime always will have my old clips for memories
I miss the tank mind games I miss actually being able to peel for my supports can’t do that now
You can thank blizzard for not correcting their initial balance and hero design issues, then removing a tank to force the role into a more linear counterpick playstyle as a bandaid solution. Since the removal of a tank, I don’t play it anymore since I was an off tank player. I only play it if I am queueing open queue
@@flouse. it just feels dead no mind games no nothing just another death match shooter that what made overwatch special it was different it just feels like everyone is off doing their own thing now . Tanks could literally cover each other weaknesses supports got more peel certain heroes were kept in check because of two tanks even if my other tank wasn’t that good i could pull the weight and DPS actually felt fun I miss self destruct with grav I miss my Reinhardt getting a juicy earth shatter my zarya using graviton and I come in with a game winning nano blade to clean everything up there’s nothing like this in OW2 at all
@@eruza_7716 so real, tank is so dumbed down now. nothing felt better than peeling for ur supports or setting up ur dps for an aggressive play on an offangle.
@@Diren_7exactly???!!
We have the same exact thing rn in 5v5 just having 2 Mauga's shoot each other while getting immortality non-stop with tones of healing. Difference is, 6v6 bunker actually required teamwork, now its just all spam.
Only thing the 5v5ers can remember is double shield that only existed because of poor shitty hero design and power creep that they never addressed as they abandoned the live game to go work on Overwatch 0.1
I’m willing to bet double shield wasn’t as common as people made it out to be
I think you're totally correct. Overwatch 1 metas were always pretty fun until Brigitte and Sigma came out. The developers forgot to program a specific weakness for Sigma, a do it all monster. I guess you could say his brawl is inferior to other tanks but if you paired him with Orisa he was a fucking menace lol. Blizzard couldn't figure out why their hero design was bad so they removed the role.
100% true and real brother
Exactly. And it's like they ignore how much heroes are having to be reworked. It's almost like the overwatch cast wasn't built for 5v5😅
@@eruza_7716your right, you only saw it in masters + so only 5% of the player base
10:10 Dafran went this bunker comp there specifically to counter widow/tracer cheater. I remember this game. Its not like they wanted to play it, it was their only option to draw/win.
OH MAN, i remember too
Your not wrong
If a strat is so op that it counters CHEATING, it tells you everything you need to know.
@@AzureRoxe it countered widow oneshot with aimbot. In ow2 against widow cheater you would have to also go bastion and sigma.
@@AzureRoxeHonestly though isn’t that the beauty of OW1? We had walls (Widow ult) and aimbot (Soldier ult) as balanced parts of the game because shields and tanks were so good at counteracting these threats. You can counter cheaters in OW2 by just going ball and being unheadshottable, I don’t think the fact their comp and TEAMPLAY countered a cheater means that it was a bad game. Granted, I agree double shield, immo, and fortify/grasp were lame, but those were balanceable if Blizzard ever tried.
@AzureRoxe your sounding dumb.
it was the only effective tactic available at that time. Who wouldn't do it
All it took was for blizzard to nerf 4 characters, and i promise 5v5 wouldn't have to become a thing.
I think they would rather let the game die than talk about 6v6. It's sad.
Because it would be an admission that OW2 was a failure.
@@cookiemonster-p420 Thing is tho because Microsoft bought Blizzard, they might be able to place blame on Activison Blizzard and use the buyout as a way to 'return to the game we love'. But I am only hoping
Oh they'd much rather let it die. Because (and this is just my speculation) the company is probably shorting it's own game, so as long as they can keep it alive enough to sell skins, they're making good money off of it doing poorly probably.
@@christopherlee9026 Weird. Because it has potential to be one of their highest money makers.
Although I agree the games devs are piss poor. I don’t think it would be smart of them to keep the game on life support with skins. That’s how they left OW1 since 2018
The thing that would kill the game is 6v6 so idk what you're talking about ^^
I had more fun losing games in OW than I had winning games in OW2
Amen
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE DEAF PEOPLE IN CHAT!! I genuinely thought I was the only one but than again I'm a tank main. Specifically rein😅
Plus all I see these days is roll or get rolled, no in between.
Sounds like a losers mentality to me.
@@ReaveIdono if that's what you got from that. I can't help you😂
Showing a clip of 6v6 at its worst and using that as the basis of your argument is like if i showed the worst game of Lebrons career and said this is proof he sucks.
OW community gaslighting at its finest baby!!
EXACTLY
For real though, as Sam said as well it’s like if you only showed Mauga on comp release for what ow2 was like… yeah it was shit and you were having bad players able to climb by just picking Mauga, nothing with format just hero balance
Well, to be fair, he grabbed that clip from another individual on how THEY were complaining about double shield. I find that clip to be an example on how NOT to play OW. Those braindead "metas" was also the problem. Very much like today, if you're not picking specific characters to try and roll the other team, then people just rage. When the game is supposed to let you mix it up and everything can be countered, but most people don't want to think outside the box.
@@TheHellsingHQ I mean tbf though I have a bastion one trick acc that I got to top 500 last season of ow1, only one of two bastions mains in top 500 because most people at gm level knew how to deal with it but it really came down to team comp for me not skill, but that’s not a format issue instead hero balancing. Was funny tho because I hadn’t ever made it to gm even on my main account and I would have people flame me and be toxic for picking bastion so I made an alt to just play bastion so it wouldn’t matter what ppl thought or if they threw, and once people saw bastion was all I played they wouldn’t complain and just play and it worked better… idk some people are just dumb
Literally
Spitting facts.
I honestly always preferred 6v6, as I played more of zarya/sigma/winston by the end of overwatch 1. But I can also see how 5v5 at the time appealed more to the people who were hungry after the awful content drought, as it felt fresh. But oh man, they really have to wake up by now and stop being stubborn.
The ones who need to wake.up are the 6v6 people. This clearly shows that adding a 2nd tank gives you exponentially higher value....
@@ReaveIdonoNo shit, i wanted to play a more moba styled fps not a cod style deathmatch game. If you didn't want twp tanks at the time too bad you ould ahve played cod.
@lukeaustin4465 I played with two tanks. It wasn't what you described in the first place lol. The two tanks eliminated any moba anything because several DPS characters were super useless and just had to hide behind Tanks until someone got bored and got out of position and punished for it on the defensive side.
The only characters that could do anything meaningful where the highly mobile ones such as Genji, Sombra, Pharah, Tracer, Doomfist and Echo or the two one shot heroes of Widow and Hanzo.
76, Reaper, Junk, Mei, Ashe (Without Mercy), McCree, Sym, Torb, Bastion. That's half the DPS roster being mostly useless because two Tanks were that powerful. Even Roadhog was kind of useless as you could just DM or Bubble his hooked target. Highnoon? Let me DM all 6 Shots on reaction to him saying "DRAW". Visor? Let me DM most of the ult. Tank Config? Let me DM most of the shots. Deathblossom? Let me DM most of the shots. Molton Core? Gonna eat those. Level 3 Turret? Let me DM That while my team blows it up. Shield Gen? Gonna go destroy that for free every time. And I could track these ults and save DM for all of them because I had a 2nd team to block trash damage. The only reason you even think OW2 is a "COD deathmatch" is because you are too bad to play the game due to poor habits learned from having Tank players like me stop all the ULTs of the enemy team. Get gud and stop crying. I did. You can too.
@@ReaveIdono okay so why didn't the devs remove defense matrix then? Even Jeff Kaplan said that he regretted giving dva dm. Also I'm master's 1 on tank so you telling me to get good is strange. Also dva was useless against a rein zarya comp with lucio speed boosting them right up in your team's face. What you described was a balance issue not a format issue. Dva should have never had dm because as you correctly said it countered way too many ultimates.
@lukeaustin4465 I just used Dva because I played her as the off tank. I still did the exact same things when playing Main Tank as Winston with his bubble. Which then allowed my 2nd tank to cover any trash damage at the front, depending on who my other tank player was. And if it was a Dva, we'd just bum rush supports and kill them for free. Damage Mitigation abilities are just too strong. Look at what they tried to do with Sym having Infinite Ammo on Shields? She still got rolled. Reaper with his ridiculous Life Steal? Still got rolled. Junk and his absurd Damage buffs? Still got rolled.
I definitely agree that supports had some healing creep as well with later ones but nothing changed other than how I could be even MORE aggressive with the added healing because I could at any moment block infinite damage.
The overwatch team explaining why they chose 6 players before or shortly after the game came out. “6 players allows each player to feel like they have impact on the game without feeling overwhelmed” if I remember the quote correctly.
So now fuck the single tank player on each team. I used to be a tank main because I found the role hard, but rewarding. It was fun because when my other tank was miles better than me, I got motivated to pull my weight and follow their plays. If I was the good tank on the team, I felt the pressure of having to work for two people, but I was relieved to see that taking on said pressure let my other tank attempt to shine themselves. Even when I lost, I felt I could learn something. It was either the other tanks were gods compared to me and my other tank. Or it was that the 2 tanks were on my level and my other tank was lacking. Still, I felt every game had something to teach me. Yet now all I feel is pressure and expectations from my team. Yet no one will complain about dps because obviously one of them is better than the other and can fill in the role in the game, same with support. Yet I'm alone and still have a tough role to fill in. All attention is on me, both friendly and enemy, and it eats me out. Not even wins make me happy, because I feel exhausted after that. In OW1, I could play for hours with no fatigue, now I lose 3 games in a row and win 1 and feel anxious when wanting to play another game... It got really overwhelming
Get this man on the dev team 🙏
what dev team? Microsoft is firing everybody and "soft" shutting down support for this dead ass game
Thanks Samito for being the loudest voice in the 6v6 debate. i fear there is no hope we will ever go back... but its good to keep being loud about it!!
“Oh but double shield”
I’d rather shoot shields than solo tank against an entire backline of unkillable supports with BS immortality abilities
Or solo tank an entire counter swap next fights
BUT BUT SUPPORTS ARE SO WEAK!!! 2 taps you as Kiriko then teleports back to the team without worry
I dont get your logic. Ow1 tanks couldnt kill supports alone either. You have to work together either way
@@emperortime2356your point legit stands with ow1 yes tanks HELP EACH OTHER -_-
At least I can queue for a game as dps without waiting a half hour like OW1.
good work samito i hope the impossible dream of getting 6v6 back could happen
OW1...more players, more viewers and a competitive League existed. OW2...less players, less viewers, no competitive league. 'Nough said.
I stopped playing with 5v5. I thought it was so boring with only 1 tank, I didn't even try.
@@Jay-eb7ik now game is more borring, you literally cant play your favourit char, cs easy to counterpick it
While I prefer 6v6, your claims of less viewers, less players (OW2 definitely has more players though), and no competitive league wasn’t a result of a change from 6v6 to 5v5
Tbf the league not existing is probably for the best cause now a more sustainable / healthy grassroots scene can happen
@@kamay7021I'm pretty sure it did until they stepped away from supoorting it to work on OW2. If they'd just kept providing a similar amount of content to OW it might well be more successful today than OW2 is.
Bring back 6v6! POG Samito 3
Let's go!!! Spam all OW2 videos with "Bring back 6v6". We can do it!
At least I can queue for a game as dps without waiting a half hour like OW1.
@finelinetv6039 fine let's do 7v7. 2-3-2. Anything but 5v5.
@@tyrantla7120 The tank experience is ass rn ill give you that
@@finelinetv6039tanks been bad tbh they copied the tank support DPS slots off from world of Warcraft and in that game you had 1 tank 3 DPS 1 support
hey creator of the video here, i preferred ow1 more teamplay, and i know the reason we have 1 tank isnt mainly due to double shield but it spiked interst in people and i liked double shield
also people barely post old games ecspecially if they are lower rated thats why majority of the videos are gm+
(and u linked the wrong video in the description)
^
I'll fix, usually channel managers put it on glad I'm reading these haha
I'm 100% agree 6v6 was much better in every way
It's very simple. In OW1 if you were to be "countered", the enemy team had to collectively swap 2 or more heroes to match or counter your frontline. In OW2 just a single person can swap to counter you and there's jackshit you can do besides swapping yourself to mirror or counter them. Anyone knows how MASSIVE of a difference it is to ask 1 player to swap, vs 2 or more players to swap? It's literally such a big difference that 90% of teams below Masters straight up won't do it cus it takes too much coordination and commitment. But that barrier doesn't exist in OW2 anymore because the frontline (in terms of pick and playstyle choices) is so limited with just one hero. You are always just one enemy swap away from being cancelled. And you have no other frontliner to rely on and cover your weaknesses, instead you're a puppet to your supports and pray they can bail you out if you get outscissored as you stick with your paper pick.
5v5 is so braindead. It's crazy we have had to go a full year before people actually started taking this seriously instead of perpetuating the mentality of "lets wait and see how it goes". We've waited for over a year. Time to acknowledge that shit just aint it fam. 6v6 as a format was objectively better in every single metric for both casuals and pros alike.
It's literally a counter-pick loop until the match time runs out, and others can't be bothered to notice the flaw in this design. It's insane.
It's so exhausting just having to constantly look out for a swap as soon as you spawn because you know it will happen.
Well said
Another side effect of going to 5v5 was that everything needs to defend itself because the tank cant be expected to help. Now we have everything being dps with dps basically having no bonuses like pasive heals.
which goes back to the original problem of dpss being the weakest role
@@batatanna because in 5v5 the threat or support of the 2nd tank went to the supports in the form of dps, mobility, abilities, etc.
yea when i was masters or lower support players still expect you to peel for them when they have all the help from the game that they cant die
5v5 was a bandaid fix for a lack of tank players and balance fuck ups. And now, like an untreated would, it has festered.