This is why I don't date outside of the Faith. Had to break up with my girlfriend of 3 years after I realized her profession of Faith didn't line up with her actions and beliefs.
Not everyone that gets baptized in water receives the Holy Spirit. So if they don't or receive that gift or comforter from God then they're not of Faith.
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@@abrm31222 that’s because water has nothing to do with receiving the Holy Spirit, water Baptism is the outward expression of calling on the name of the Lord in faith not a act in which one is made regenerate, it is through faith one is United to Christ and that’s on Gods timetable not anyone else’s.
Me and my wife were unbelievers. She had a double life of faith where she participated of Catholic church, but also she made witchcraft. I was agnostic and I could not care less about her faith. I turned myself to Christ without anyone involved in this process, because I felt God calling me: suddenly I felt that Christ words were truth and I start to believe it. Then I started to read the bible, to study it, then I turned myself to Christ, I confessed my faith, I started to pray and God responded all my questions about the bible. I convinced my wife to gradually abandon witchcraft and turn herself truly to a life in Christ, because she even left the church after some point and she was going for a destructive path. She followed my lead and she changed her mind and her behavior. On our path to repentance, we were gradually abandoning our past lives. We destroyed pagan books and witchcraft stuff that she owned, she got out of her pagan groups. I abandoned my satanist music and many, many other things that were against God. This path of repentance is not over. We are, day by day, learning to walk in Christ, learning about holiness, fasting, life of prayer and living only to glorify God. We would be at this point at some church, but all churches around us are closed because of the pandemic. Many addictions and many sins got behind us and I'm so thankful to God for that. And the path continues. I'm eager for more repentance and more relationship with the Holy Spirit and more learning into building my character in Christ. I don't recognize anymore who I was years ago and it's all thanks to God. Everything I learn with the preachers, with bible study (and with study bible) and with theology books, I teach her. And God is teaching me with many ways, including dreams, trials and using other Christians. God works in mysterious ways. I would not condone this couple before learning what fruit they will bear from this relationship. God can reach the hearth of an unbeliever and change it. Even so, Pastor John have experience about this issue that I don't have, so I would follow his advice for sure.
Thank you for your transparency Brother in sharing your testimony! Sounds like the coronavirus season has also been a tremendous blessing to you and your wife, drawing you closer to our Holy Father and studying The Bible, as it also has for me. I pray you and your wife continue to be blessed in this precious time of consecration to The LORD. .
So happy to hear about your testimony, my brother. Praise be to God. But, you married an unbeliever when you were an unbeliever. Pastor John is talking about a believer marrying an unbeliever. Both are different. And bible is very clear on both subjects.
Você é brasileiro? Que legal ouvir sua jornada e perceber como o Espírito Santo trabalhou na vida de vocês! Que Ele seja glorificado por isso! Que Ele continue guiando e guardando vocês. Um abraço fraterno!!
I say hallelujah and praise the Lord for your testimony!!! May the spirit of the Lord guide you even deeper into His love and revelation. Thank you for sharing and encouraging me to walk righteously as well!!!! Bless you brother!
I was 19 when i met my unbelieving husband. I had a child outside of marriage within 6 months. I was saying i believed in God my whole life and said the prayers of salivation, however, i believe i was very deceived, i was not living the life of a Christian. I was also attending a deceptive church.. I felt guilty being with an unbeliever, yet i felt i was stuck in the position of having a child with him. I went to my pastor and told him my guilt of living in fornication and being with an unbeliever. I told him that I wanted to abstain until marriage but he hadn't proposed yet. However, he told me i cant just stop being intimate him because that's cruel to a man. He said I was under God's grace even while in this sin because we have a kid while unmarried. He said we were already spiritually married. I was SO VERY confused. In tears. We ended up having twins. He finally proposed, I felt the right thing was to marry him and not break up our family. Now, i have come out of deception and completely turned my life around. I have come to the true understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ and why I an in need of a savior. I feel my job now is to live for God and let my life be a testimony to my husband. He is supportive and will go to church with me if I ask. He doesnt ovject to me teaching our children about God. We pray every day for his salvation. He says he will believe if he sees proof of God. But what he has seen from churches in deception has pushed him away. He also believes Christianity cannot be the only way to heaven. It breaks my heart. But im believing in God. He knows his heart. I cannot force anything. I can only be diligent in my prayers for him. 🙏🙏
Very good teaching. I am impressed that John Piper is prepared to excommunicate professing Christians who marry non-believers. A marriage is an extremely deep bond between 2 people, so to marry a non-believer is bound to massively impact the believer's walk with the Lord. And I think this should be disciplined with excommunication until there is genuine repentance.
I became a true believer while already engaged and had 2 children with an unbeliever. After my conversion i had a choice to either leave my partner and thus my children, or marry her. I could no longer live in sin by living with her unmarried, but i also did not want to split up my family but i also had convictions of marrying a non-believer. After counsel from church leadership they advised I should marry her as it didn’t seem like God would want to leave my kids without a father in the home. It is difficult. The closer I get to Christ the further I get from her. It does teach me how to love someone better, it teaches me to be patient and helps me to learn not to be judgmental. At times our mindsets are so far apart but I keep my convictions to the best of my ability. my children are being raised to love God and to pray at night and come to church with me on the weekends. I wonder if I made the right decision. Regardless, I will love God and follow the narrow path and love my wife and children.
I am in this exact situation but engaged. Also, with someone who seems to say they are a believer, but the fruits of the spirit aren't there (which I hate making that judgement call but it's what I see). No conviction of sin at all, no reading of the word, me not wanting to fornicate was a huge issue once I was saved...I'm stuck not knowing what to do. Knowing the heart is deceitful, I just want to move out and be done, but I don't want to break up the family due to our 3 kids which I feel is sinful. I just want God to free me from this burden. 😪
I think you were bound to each other and became one flesh when you slept with each other and thereby formed a family. In that sense, the church was preserving that union that was already created. Paul's advice to people who become Christians who are already bound to non-Christians applies -- remain together if the non-Christian spouse will remain with you.
What Piper fails to mention is that being married to someone, without God, can destroy your spouse spiritually. If your spouse is a carnal or lukewarm Christian, or even more so, an unbeliever; your attempts to win them Christ by being an example and encouraging them to draw closer to God; may lead to them despising you and rejecting God. They may become lost because they were never truly ready for a truly saved spouse and had no idea of the pressure put on them to be truly saved. Therefore, you can make your spouse reject Christ if you are a godly influence. But what may likely also happen is your spouse may draw you into carnality if they are a carnal Christian; or into sin if they are an unbeliever. This will eventually ruin your testimony for Christ, and again, cause your spouse to reject God when they see a so- called Christian sinning. Thus, many Christians in the comments, are only seeking a spouse because of themselves- their loneliness, their emptiness, their pain. And they may be tempted to risk their relationship with God to make themselves happy. But what about your spouse? If God doesn't ordain the marriage, you can cost them their soul and be the deciding factor of why they end up in hell. What a terrible feeling! Now, God allows for marriages to stay together if a couple is already married and one becomes a believer but if one is single then they should remain that way until God provides a spouse. To do otherwise may damn yourself; but even worse, the one you dearly love, your spouse. You do not want this on your conscience. Also, what is ironic is that you may end up single anyway. Your spouse may leave because they may reject the pressure to be saved if you are a godly spouse. Or you may have to leave because of repeatedly being drawn into lukewarmness or sin if you are not a godly spouse. Therefore, single Christians should be content to be single because you can ruin someone else's life and soul. It is not all about you. This is from someone who ignored God, got married, and had a terrible 10 year marriage. My husband is still unsaved and may now never seek God because of my ungodly behavior by being drawn into sin. I also terribly hurt my relationship with God in the process. And end the end I am now single which is what God asked of me in the first place. I deeply regret this and wish I would have been content in Christ alone.
I was with this girl. I experienced almost everything you’ve explained. They’re quite confident in their unbelieving and I knew that. It caused me to become lukewarm and mute how I felt. That being said I asked my past relationship for advice but the words came out wrong. My then girlfriend found out and saw how I was telling my ex that I was worried my girlfriend didn’t believe in God. We broke up and now she is even farther form believing in the Lord and it’s my fault. Prime example as you mentioned of how it can damage others and ourselves. My heart and mind still want to work things out though. We’re both young and maybe she could open her eyes. That’s an unrealistic expectation but I’m still maybe learning to accept that.
I can tell you that I married a non-Christian during a period when I had left the church and was essentially living a non-Christian life and it has been a very difficult time. I believe that Satan has a much bigger ability to get in and create havoc and I’m now walking through the heartbreaking challenge of having a young believing daughter who can’t properly rejoice in the thought of heaven as immediately she think of “what about Mum”? I know that pain as my Dad left church before I way born and I’ve spent my life worrying about his salvation. Just some real life experience of “why not to do it”
@@davida6146 that’s hard to say. I love her and we’ve had lots of happiness together. But also a LOT of heartache that probably wouldn’t be there otherwise. Especially around decisions that really need to involve trusting God. Or just getting your own thinking straight
I'm still an unmarried person. I know all those things in this video. I prayed for my love, but it seems to be an unanswered prayer. I started to think of having an unbeliever. But at the same time, I am also afraid that could ruin my life, and will get divorced badly. Thank you for the preaching.
Any move made in desperation is destined for disaster. While being single may be lonely, a bad marriage can be lonely and/or excruciating. Don't give up on Him. Whether you remain single your whole life or you end up married, that other person CANNOT be your source of joy. Only God can bring true joy and peace.
If you seek to find someone......draw closer to Christ. Wait and be patient. If it's not happening fast enough , that means God is doing work on you. Throw aside the images and the fake reality of what the world regards as relationship. God wants to show you his way. Who ever he gives to you will be beautiful and perfect , but you must first choose Christ and lose yourself in him. Walk away from Hollywood worldy, celebrity nonsense, none of it is real.🙏🏽♥️
Wait on the Lord. I too was in your position so I went for an unbeliever. We dated for 3+ years than I rejected him when he proposed to me because I just couldn't bear my guilt. Tonight I feel completely broken. He was my best friend and he was loyal, kind, good etc much better in character than the Christian men I met in my community. But he didn't care about Jesus. I don't think I made the wrong choice because Jesus is my everything but I do feel alone. I hurt my best friend and the person I love so much. I should have never entered into the relationship if I was going to back out like this.. I thought if I prayed he will come to Christ but it's not happening now. I just need to let it out.
Something to remember is that God never promised a husband/wife. If you feel that your prayer is unanswered, maybe God is saying either yes, not yet, or no.
I find it troubling how many preachers seem to think that doing nothing in the church to help single Christian’s meet each other for marriage will end well . Way too much focus on the problem after the sin and not enough focus on helping people where it really matters. I know of very few ministries that help singles as they keep getting older and the internal pressure is there and God isn’t taking it away and no one seems to care.
You are welcome God bless you Beloved, I don't know you. in person but God knows you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (BANABAS MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state Nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348079861301) tell him I sent an you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you .......
wow such powerful words. I never really thought that deeply about all this, and in hearing this question my initial thought was “what's the big deal?”, without realising that the non-believing spouse is not 'respecting his/her spouse', but rejecting Christ! I cannot really fathom what local tradition or distorted thought I had that made me believe it wasn't that good to date a non-believer but wasn't but wasn't that evil either. I have heard friends' non-believing significant others say 'they respect christianity' without realising despite what they say they reject Christ! Oh, how difficult it is to live rightly in this world where such evil is openly accepted!
I almost made that mistake of doing that. Truth be told I fell away from God but when I was on fire for him, I was suggesting marrying someone that didn't believe because I knew that eventually he will come to Jesus after me praying for him.
I don't think you could be so sure that he would come to Jesus. And in any case a Christian should only want to be in a Jesus-team marriage from the outset.
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You prayers don’t have the power to convert a person my friend, and no Christian can fall away as they are kept by God and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
I don't like that Pastor John is taking 2 verses out of context; 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 and 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 ....to justify removing people from his church. These verses are not talking about a man who wants to marry a non-believer... one is talking about a man who doesn't want to work for his food and shelter, and the other is talking about a man who is sexually immoral. These clearly are sins the bible is talking about. I believe it is a highly recommended and sound strategy to marry a Christian if you are Christian, but God works in mysterious ways, and for those situations, there is the Grace of God. 1 Corinthians 7:9 However, if they are unable to exercise self-control, they should marry, for it is better to be married than to burn with passion. I'm not advocating that Christians should marry non-Christians, but there should not be a hard line.... and it's definitely definitely not a justification to kick them out of your church for trying to obey 1 Corinthians 7:9 .....To Pastor John - You sound like a shrewd man. I would be more concerned about the sin in your own life than that of a man who just doesn't want to burn in lust and try his best to make his life work. There are worse things you can do :| Remember John 8:7 ....Jesus didn't say 'he without sexual sin' he said 'Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.' Discipline can only happen by the hand of someone who loves that individual (the sinner). Did your heart ache when you had to remove that person from your church? Or was it easy? Just curious
@@neffetitiedwards1530 Yes, but a large majority of the time that doesn't happen, from what I have seen. And in any case, it is the wrong thing for a Christian to do, because a Christian marriage needs to be up and running in spiritual unity from the beginning.
@@neffetitiedwards1530 The thing with that is, if you already show that you will disobey God by marrying an unbeliever, how can it then be expected that you will reflect Christ well enough for the sanctification of your spouse. If you try to witness to your spouse they'll just think to themselves, "they don't even love God enough to obey him, why are they trying to get me to? He clearly isn't that important to them, so why should I want what he offers?" It is just bad news all around, and it should not be done, period.
I dated and married an unbeliever and I repented for this. I wish I was attending a bible based church that got me by the shoulder to shake me up with Gods truth. I deceived myself. I wasn’t attending any church at the time. Sanctify and help my family Lord!!!!
I actually think this teaching could be quite dangerous in some parts of the world. Let’s say you’re somewhere where the percentage of Christians is very small and actually potential Christian life partners rarely if ever cross your path. What happens is that Christians often end up marrying the first Christian that does cross their path - however incompatible they are. I have seen this many times and it always ends in tears. Some of the worst marriages I've ever come across started in this way - they are far worse than marriages where a Christian is married to a decent human being who non-Christian but is not obstructive to the Christian's faith. I mean yes God is sovereign and can miraculously bring the perfect life partner along regardless of where you are. But God's normal way of working is through normal means. He doesn't normally drop money on our lap: we're supposed to go out and work. in the same way, if we want to find a life partner, we normally have to go looking for one. I also think that this is sometimes a "system" issue. By that I mean, where (usually) single women significantly outnumber single men in church circles then that is the fault of churches and single women shouldn't be expected to shoulder the burden of lifelong singleness or church discipline because churches have failed to win men for Christ.
Wow... I have thought about this a lot lately. How do we fix this systemic issue? There are soo many potential Godly, marriage-aged women, while marriageable men of the same standards/potential are lacking in church settings. The ratio of marriageable women to men in church is soo skewed, that I have heard several stories of women in their 40s single, devasted, and unmarried giving up hopes on ever being able to have children. It's easy to preach the bible and bible bash, without providing real solutions to real problems. I think the elders also ought to come up with ways to help these women that have been trying to do their best. Women that have attempted to stay within biblical confines for most of their fertile lives, in vain. Thanks for speaking up.
I can understand your concern, and yeah, I've definitely been in churches that were predominantly female, and perhaps part of this is on us males for falling short in bringing other men to Christ and to the church; however, I also want to challenge a few of the presuppositions in your thoughts too: 1. It is not necessarily God's will for everyone to be married. Depending on where you are, I think church culture can tend to jump on the bandwagon of societal culture that romantic love and marriage are among the ultimate aims of life. But the only marriage that the Bible guarantees is our union with Christ. God may will it that we find a spouse in this life, but He may also will it that we remain single (and that is not a bad thing, as Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 7, singleness can be an advantage for doing ministry). 2. Our obedience to Christ is more important than our happiness in marriage. It is heartbreaking that there are marriages in the church that we see are unhealthy and not reflections of Christ's love for the church. However, if we look at scripture, especially passages like the sermon on the mount, we can see that Jesus's calling for us to love and live in righteousness isn't always comfortable or easy, and often puts us at the disadvantage in life and relationships. Now that doesn't mean anyone should marry a Christian who seems like they would make a poor spouse, but it also doesn't mean that they should opt to marry a nonbeliever either. Our call is to holiness and obedience to Christ and if we can't do that in marriage, then we must do it in singleness. 3. What a healthy Christian marriage should look like: You used the word "incompatible", which can mean a lot of things. But I want to make the argument that two Christians, who are both loving Jesus and striving to love each other the way that He commands, should still be able to have a Christ-glorifying marriage, regardless of any issues of incompatibility. Yes, we should use wisdom in choosing our spouse; yes, being married to someone who is incompatible might make the marriage more challenging, but I would argue that in the situations you've referenced, the problem was probably less from incompatibility and more from the failure on the part of the two believers to love and submit to each other the way God commands. But yeah, sorry all that was so long, and kudos to you if you've actually read it all. What you mentioned are legitimate concerns, and it's alright to consider them, but I think, as Christians, at the end of the day we have to ask ourselves: What is better, to pursue holiness and follow God's commandments? Or to heed our own wisdom in pursuit of our own desires? Anyways, hope this was helpful for you somehow. God bless!
I wish I had an answer for this question about marriage to an unbeliever in more complex situations. The situation I'm thinking of involves a believer from an unreached people where arranged marriages are the norm. Obviously the commands of Scripture are the same. But in the context where marriage is an expectation in the society, and there aren't any believing potential spouses in the area, and where marriage is a family choice rather than just a personal choice, I wonder if this changes anything about how the question is answered.
The Bible answers this exact question in 1 Corinthians 7:13-14. Beware if a “church leader” avoids the clear, biblical answer, and instead, provides a self-serving answer. Did you notice this “church leader” provides an answer that focuses on requiring the believer to get permission from the church elders regarding who to marry. It also dictates that the believer apologize to church leaders for marrying a non-believer. Also, this “church leader” completely misinterpretes the Bible verses about excommunication. In Matthew 18:15-18, Jesus describes excommunication as being appropriate for someone who continues to live in sin, not someone who “sinned” in the past. Otherwise, we’d all be excommunicated. The answer in this video is what you might expect from a Pharisee, not from a disciple of Jesus. Jesus taught that we should love and encourage each other, not excommunicate members who have committed sins in the past or neglect to get approval from and/or apologize to “leaders in the church.” My answer to this question is to read 1 Corinthians 7:13-14 and Matthew 18:15-18. Also, pray about how you can best show love and encouragement to the believer and their non-believing spouse. In that situation, I would hope I’d be led to show love, not condemnation, and help that couple to come to Christ together. Also, I hope my prayers would lead me to help them find a truly Christian community that doesn’t try to excommunicate them for past “sins” like not having elders approve their choice in a spouse and not apologizing to church leaders afterwards.
This was so helpful, Pastor John. We are walking into the situation right now with my sister. Do you have any articles or videos where you discuss how we ought to consider attendance at the ceremony, since she is a Christian and her fiance is not? Weve really struggled to know what to do.
@@hannah-rosebjelan1807 So sorry to hear that. I ended up attending as an observer, but not a celebrant. It was challenging to not clap/toast often, but I feel that I was able to maintain a respectful and kind presence. Feelings were hurt, but have already started to mend a couple months after the fact.
While I agree in general, I would point out an issue with this response - what of people who have already made commitments before they began to follow Christ? What of people with children out of wedlock, what of men who have already effectively married a woman, and after becoming a Christian feels convicted to be there for the wife that he refused to acknowledge or accept? Would that not possibly be an act of repentance to make right what he has done wrong? There may be circumstances that would be very difficult to judge, and would largely depend on the heart of the individual, and the circumstances.
I hesitate to say out of respect for him but I think Piper is being too strong here (that is to say, goes further than the bible does). He talks about "explicit" biblical commands forbidding marriage between believers and unbelievers but the verses he quotes are no such thing and he should know it. "She is free to marry whoever she wishes but he must belong to the Lord" is written specifically to widows (you can argue that it's therefore implicit for first marriages too but this is by definition not "explicit") and the "not worthy of me" mentions only parents and children (again, there's an argument to be had about implicit principle but it is not explicit on this topic). Given the lack of explicit command I could well believe a sincere believer would not think it forbidden to marry an unbeliever and so the act is not necessarily deliberate defiance (Piper's first level of sinfulness). I am no expert in this but it does seem this is an area the bible gives some freedom (as it often does and one would expect for a book misistering across many times and cultures) and the believer needs to think, read and pray hard to discover what God's will is for their situation. I do believe it is often unwise for Christians to marry non-christians and so I haven't done it myself (given they couldn't be united on the deepest/spiritual level and there are questions to be asked about whether the believer is truly prioritising Christ in their life) but I am of the opinion Piper is overstepping the bible here by his blanket condemnation. It may seem admirably "bold" and "clear" but I would say being so unequivocal lacks the nuance of the biblical revelation.
I disagree because of what happened in my marriage. I was unequally yoked for a 10 year marriage and am now 33 and soon to be divorced. My husband caused me to backslide, which is what being married to an unbeliever ultimately causes. If you cannot be faithful to God while being single, you will surely fail being faithful to God with an unbelieving spouse. Bad company corrupts good manners. You may say this is for acquaintances, but even more so for a spouse! So not only can you hinder your relationship with God, you can cause your spouse to reject God because you have ruined your testimony of Christ. In this, you are not only damning yourself but also your spouse. I know you are being optimistic and so was I. I thought I could change my spouse but he changed me. Now I don't know if I can ever be forgiven for falling away from God. This is a serious topic with eternal consequences and should not be rationalized away.
Agreed. This severe perspective I believe comes more from personal experience dealing with damage done through such relationships than from scripture. It is tempting to put up stricter boundaries than the Bible itself in order to keep people as far from danger as possible, but that itself is a danger. One clear way to tell the strict boundary is man-made is by watching how the rule changes when the circumstances become complicated by a premarital pregnancy. If the couple has "only" had premarital sex, it's sin if you go forward with a marriage, but if the sex produces a pregnancy then the sin does a flip: then it's sin to abandon the relationship. The logic of the rule falls apart in the face of a situation where it is obviously unjust. God's commands don't do that. Often in such relationships the root sin occurred long before things catch the attention of the church as they scramble to stop a marriage, which may or may not be sinful in itself, and may even be done out of a repentant heart to set past wrongs right.
@@DeanaJacksonFrazier “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9 NIV
Hello. I believe you mean 1 Corinthians 7:12, so I will address that. Quite simply, those instructions are for individuals who are married and then come to faith, and what to do with that after certain difficulties arise. It is not referring to believers who want to marry an unbeliever in the hopes they will convert them. Paul says in verse 16, "For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?" The answer being that you don't, and you should not blatantly disobey God while trying to validate it in this manner. Hope this helps.
@@limpingllama57 Thank you for the correction and attempt at clarification! I was honestly stumped when it came to harmonizing those verses with the rest of Scripture that clearly forbids us from engaging in fellowship with an unbeliever without the intention of sharing the Gospel with them; let alone marry them. I knew their had to be an explanation for it I just wasn’t seeing.
You are welcome God bless you Beloved, I don't know you. in person but God knows you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (BANABAS MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state Nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348079861301) tell him I sent an you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you .......
@@MrMister441 your right! 1 Timothy 4:10 - The New International Version (NIV) 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
But what about parents who have children who turn away from their Christian upbringing, or a sibling who no longer wants anything to do with God... is the love they have for Christ in question simply because they continue to love and maintain a relationship with their unbelieving child, or siblng?? What is the difference between that and a spouse?
Well, if the church is a cult, & it doesn't approve of the marriage, then it does what a cult typically would do: Disrupt the lives of the married couple. If its not a cult, then it respects the married couple & does the right thing by *STAYING OUT OF THEIR MARRIAGE*
I mean according to this guy, if you marry an unbeliever you’re forsaking God. And so what if the Church Excommunicates you, you are still bound with the person you marry, so you ask the elders to bless your repentance for? It’s a good thing these elders can’t dangle your salvation in front of you only membership, which is only paper. Another congregation will take you in.
Then why does Paul say "For the unbelieving husband is made holy through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy through her husband. Otherwise, your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy."? 1 Corinthians 7:14 NRSV Does this verse not make it okay to marry an unbeliever? Am I just misunderstanding what Paul was saying?
Unfortunately, this podcast didn’t go into these biblical details and only spot picked one verse so I had to do some digging. The verse Piper picked doesn’t address marriage, its actually about RE-marriage. I believe every word in the Bible matters and that was not emphasized in this podcast. So then i thought The verses you just quoted, certainly made me think that it was OK to marry a non-believer. And just as importantly, that it would be OK for your children. However, I didn’t want to leave any stone unturned, so I started looking in the Bible to see if there were any other passages from the New Testament about marrying a non-believer. The Old Testament rules don’t apply in the sense that we are not under the law anymore. Rather, they are a guide for how the people of Israel should have lived back in that time (and have a few more purposes but not important for the purposes of this discussion). And so... boom, we come to 2 corinthians 6:14-17. Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. There’s much more to these verses but this is a clear commandment from Paul. So voila, the Bible is clear about not marrying an unbeliever, it’s just that this Bible podcast did not address the verse you selected and chose a verse focused on remarriage ha ha. But I get Piper’s intention. ONLY because I found 2 corinthians 6:14-17 though. So i think they were unintentionally sloppy on this podcast (most of their episodes are helpful though and I know Piper is tried and true so this is just an exception). ALL THIS TO SAY, regarding your verse... hahah is that when read in context, that whole section is about marriage and singleness regarding Corinthians who were already married or not married yet. Thus, your verse can safely be determined that it is about people who are already married versus ones that want to marry an unbeliever. May the Lord correct me if I have misspoken. Like Piper, i’m just trying my best to be helpful from a bible based standpoint. Lastly, I only wrote all this out because I legitimately had the same thought you did ha ha and I had to dig through all of that so I felt it was more rewarding if I shared what I just went through.
@@reginaldchesterfield8110 I agree with your conclusions and I appreciate your heart for searching out truth in God’s word. Just one question for you to think about: If God says not to consider a non-believer for re-marriage, wouldn’t the same prohibition also apply for a first marriage? Also, there is nothing in 2 Corinthians 6:14-17 that makes the passage apply specifically to marriage. It’s about deep or meaningful relationships (alliances) with unbelievers in general. Yes marriage is perhaps the most obvious example, but not the only one. My point: I don’t think pastor John was “sloppy” in using a verse about remarriage to teach that God forbids marriage to a non-believer in the first place. Just as you are not sloppy to use a verse that forbids alliances with non-believers, when the verse does not speak specifically about marriage. God bless you.
Paul was speaking to people who were already married and then came to faith in Jesus. He is telling a believer not to sinply divorce their spouse simply because they don't believe.
@@reginaldchesterfield8110 I appreciate you digging through the texts to find this. I ask God everyday to give me the wisdom to follow his laws in the most accurate way. May the Lord be with you all.
@@jesusislord9707 this is so true. We must remember that in Paul’s time, Christianity was still very new. Most people were born into Jewish or Pagan families, and many were married adults when they came to Christ. It isn’t the same for people who were born into the faith, and had the chance to make Christ a consideration in their choice of a spouse.
I asked God one day if he was real that he would send someone to tell me about him, He did! She invited me to church I would of stopped going but they asked me to help at Bible n schools no idea why I agreed but I did I started learning the Bible through the stories I was so drawn to the Lord then one day I was handed a Bible tract that night I read it and was born again my life changed so much, I was engaged and about to be married I had no idea I wasn’t to marry an unbeliever with very limited knowledge and such a new babe in Christ 😢 as I grew it got harder and harder it breaks my heart constantly right now he’s out drinking at a nightclub there’s seasons of such discouragement and the pain in my heart is almost unbearable at times sadly I’ll cast my cares upon the Lord but then I’ll see the storm soon after and sink again it’s so hard seeing your children not want Christ either please pray I’ll trust and not focus on my pain etc 😢
I currently have someone who did this. A few years ago a friend of mine married someone is not a Christian. We all warned him not only was it wrong but that there would be problems. Present day and she is cheating on him and they're doing counseling and its most likely heading for divorce....
@@NadiA-lt2hh exactly, even Christian marriages aren't perfect... sometimes two unbelieving spouses have a better relationship with each other than two Christians...
@@davida6146 You’re so right about that. I’ve seen tons of non-Christian marriages thrive (or what looks like thriving) and Christian marriages (where Christ should be the glue) plummet. Disturbing, but I’m not surprised these days. Just disappointed ☹️
Any advice would be nice. I was a believer at the time, and I ended up dating this young lady who said that she was also a believer. However, I did have some dreams that kind of, which I believed, expressed that I should not marry her, but I was hurt because I discovered another young lady that I thought I was going to marry, got married to someone else, despite some red flags, I continued to pursue the current young lady I was dating. It was crazy because even Christian songs would come on the radio that appeared to warn me as well, but I consistently dated her, and we ended up having a child out of wedlock and I eventually married her. We were both miserable even to this day. We had big arguments, and she began drinking a lot. Getting intoxicated, being stressed, and saying that she couldn't take this anymore. She wants to leave. I also, can admit, during our early times of struggles when she was pregnant, she told me that she didn't want to be with me then as well, but I was persistent because of the child. I did make some mistakes during that time as well. I have had interactions with other women and didn't mention it until after we were married. No excuse, but I believe I did it because of the pain of having a child not being married and being rejected at the same time. I really think that God was trying to warn me of all of this, and I was disobedient and still did my own thing. I definitely will want to repent and get back on track with the will of God. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.
I feel like in practice this becomes: (1) date and marry the non-Christian, (2) everyone feels bad for a little while, (3) everyone's cool again and you got the marriage you wanted to get away with anyways. It's bad until you actually do it and then it's suddenly good.
I don't believe that a Christian marrying a non Christian is sinful. What is sinful is to have something that is more important to you than God, it could be your career, alcohol, a relationship, a hobby. 1 Corinthians 7 : 39 is an instruction to believing women only to marry someone who is a Christian because in those times, the man was the head of the family so if he was a Christian (Paul's gaoler) the whole household became Christians, but equally if he was a Pagan, the whole household becomes Pagan. There is no instruction from Paul saying a man should not marry a non believer because his faith could not be challenged my his wife in his role as head of the household. 1 Corinthian 7: 17 says that each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them. 1 Corinthians 7 : 14 says that the unbelieving husband has been sanctified by his wife and the unbelieving wife through her believing husband . I am married to a women who is not a Christian but she asks me to pray with her and for her, and she respects and wants me to put God first in how I make decisions. Perhaps this is what being sanctified through a believer means. I think that being disciplined by a Church over this is wrong. Only God can convict us of sin and too many Churches "target" members who have lifestyles that are visibly not right on message while ignoring the hidden sin.
1 Corinthians 7:39 doesn’t necessarily mean only marry another Christian. I have heard people say in the Lord modifies the verb marry, instead of the person she was to marry.
Can someone help me? Now that I have listened the this msg (I have yet confessed to the girl that I like even though I know she likes me) After listening to this msg, I am very temped to just go ahead and confess, get together then afterwards repent. Which means I am willfully sinning. What should I do?
Lord😔 I pray this stops cause it really confuses singles who are trusting God for Godly spouses. Do they now go out and date whoever they please knowing that they will be forgiven? I have had to leave someone I deeply cared about because he wasn’t a believer and I know it was the right thing to do, however I went through the comments and it’s becoming very common in the Christian community. Im saying this with love, do not marry someone who’s soul still belongs to the kingdom of darkness. You are not called to convert people in romantic relationships, that is how you comprise your morals by falling into sexual sin with someone who has no commitment to Jesus. This is not how we were called to evangelise😞
I put the person I married above Christ. I have been in season searching for answers when I should have sought them out before getting married. I want to serve him and repent of my sin. But I don’t know where to begin.
I understand what the apostle is trying to convey with not divorcing your unsaved spouse, but I believe divorcing is something that should happen when it is safe to do so. The marriage should be seen as a mistake. Certainly do not have children if this can be avoided. From a spiritual perspective , Paul also talks about being unequally yoked with the unbeliever. Spiritually this will become a fight for your soul. The enemy will now use that individual to strip away at your faith. The fact that your spiritual eyes had not seen the danger in the first place, means that your faith is not on solid ground. Yes, divorce Satan's agent in your life. It is unlikely that he/she will turn to Christ , though it was the light that drew them, that same light is what they seek to blow out. The marriage is doomed as they will be a thorn in your side. The only way it will work is if you let the devil win, by letting the unsaved spouse have his way. Divorce them as soon as you are able and run for your life !!!
Been in this situation 10 years ago and only to realise that the reason why I failed to follow the biblical teachings of marrying someone? because I'm just a professing carnal Christian.
Reading scripture I never got the impression that marrying an unbeliever was a sin. Just a really ill advised and bad idea that probably wouldn’t end well. An extremely high-risk proposition that absolutely WILL have more problems down the line.
@@ReformedSooner24 correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Bible say the children would be santicfied along with the unbelieving spouse, on behalf of the believing spouse? How does that work?
Yeah the excommunication deal, if you don’t submit too the elders,is let them do that. It’s almost that you have to ask the church for permission in regards to who you marry.
A person can make a good a case for allowing them to remain, as they could for removing them. Kinda of like the rapture. Everyone has an opinion, but none of those opinions are able to assemble the scriptures on top of one another without one rejecting the other. You got the same thing here. Any hard and fast rule is usually wrong, and does more harm than good. Kinda of like should I give this guy some money who's begging for it on the street. I know good and well he's going to buy alcohol with it. But is that my job to determine whether or not the Spirit that moved in me was right or not? It's not my job to determine what he does with the money, it's my job to move based on the Spirit. I think in some situations it could be as it is in this video. But this is not a one size fit's all problem. It's just not.
@@LightDragon777 Romans 7:15 "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I." I need "scriptures" I only need one. And so should you, and so should the pastor. All though there are multiple scriptures that speaks to how over and over again despite knowing what's right we do wrong. There are more than one stories from the largest hardest hitters in scripture Moses and Noah and David who where all murders and lying sinners. You know those stories right? Sleeping with your girls, and DRUNK to! Killing your best friend to cover up your affair! King David was one of the worst, and the best example on how we don't do what we should do. EVER! Romans 3:12 "They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." No one does what is right, not even one! ............................................ The pastor gave the right biblical response. And that's all did. And also.... Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" And that offense abounds everyday in your life and mine. All of us that claim the name of Christ step outside and sin everyday! We do it without thinking, or with thinking but we do it. A thought can enter the mind and not even come from us but having now thought it we are guilty of it. You could pick apart anyone life who believes in Jesus and say , " see look there! They don't love Christ ". That would be easy to do to anyone!
@@trustenbaker8766 Maybe it would help to go back and watch the video again, I think you might have misunderstood a bit what was being said. I don't think Pastor Piper's intention was to say that all Christians should be examined for any sin and then cast out of the church when they commit it. You're correct in quoting the scriptures to show that we are all sinners and that sin deserves grace. But it also deserves repentance and discipline (as we see in Matthew 18:15-17 and 1 Corinthians 5:1-5). Let's start with the example you brought up of David. He sinned, but when Nathan confronted him with his sin, he repented and was given grace. That being said, even after, God still disciplined him, through the death of the child. But let's compare it to the example that was given to Pastor Piper. From what we've heard, the person in this example knowingly and willfully disobeyed both God's Word and his spiritual shepherds, and has yet to show sorrow or repentance for his sins. From what I understood, Pastor Piper was encouraging the church elders to first confront this man with his sin, and-if he failed to repent-only then excommunicating him. So the problem here wasn't that he sinned (as you said, we all do that), the problem was because it is willful unrepentant sin. But yeah, I think it's important to remember that Paul, the same one who wrote the passage you quoted in Romans, also wrote the admonition to excommunicate in Corinthians. The first isn't meant to be an excuse of sin, but express sorrow and repentance over one's own sinfulness. The latter (along with the passage from Matthew) are meant to show how Christians should handle unrepentant sin within the Church. And again, as Pastor Piper pointed out, the ultimate aim is not to punish or judge, but in hopes that the person might recognize their sinfulness and repent.
It's similar. A "lukewarm or carnal Christian" may not be a Christian at all. Only God knows for sure. But choosing to live in unrepentant sin qualifies them for being excommunicated from the church themselves. And if they are excommunicated from the church for their lack of repentance over their sins, the church is to treat them as an unbeleiver. That is to say, they are to love them. Serve them. Care for them. And preach the gospel to them. But they shouldn't marry them in that state.
@@sandraking7085 The Greek word ekklesia, usually translated as 'church' in English translations, is found in the New Testament about 114 times. And in almost all of these examples the word refers either to the one worldwide universal church or to a local congregation of Christians.
1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
Yes, but this doesn't mean that it's OK to marry an non-believer. Paul is saying that if someone becomes a Christian who is already married to a non-believer, all is not lost. But it is still wrong to marry an unbeliever, as Paul himself makes clear in the same chapter in v. 39.
@@jomalielhernandez2817 In almost all circumstances, yes. Every Christian should give their all to follow Jesus with their whole life, and it should be clear that being closely bound to a non-believer is bound to stop a Christian giving their all to the Lord. I do think there are maybe very rare exceptions, such as when in Islamic countries a teenage girl is threatened with death if she doesn't marry a Muslim. But at most, there would only be very rare exceptions.
Unfortunately, this podcast didn’t go into these biblical details and only spot picked one verse so I had to do some digging. The verse Piper picked doesn’t address marriage, its actually about RE-marriage. I believe every word in the Bible matters and that was not emphasized in this podcast. So then i thought The verses you just quoted, certainly made me think that it was OK to marry a non-believer. And just as importantly, that it would be OK for your children. However, I didn’t want to leave any stone unturned, so I started looking in the Bible to see if there were any other passages from the New Testament about marrying a non-believer. The Old Testament rules don’t apply in the sense that we are not under the law anymore. Rather, they are a guide for how the people of Israel should have lived back in that time (and have a few more purposes but not important for the purposes of this discussion). And so... boom, we come to 2 corinthians 6:14-17. Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. There’s much more to these verses but this is a clear commandment from Paul. So voila, the Bible is clear about not marrying an unbeliever, it’s just that this Bible podcast did not address the verse you selected and chose a verse focused on remarriage ha ha. But I get Piper’s intention. ONLY because I found 2 corinthians 6:14-17 though. So i think they were unintentionally sloppy on this podcast (most of their episodes are helpful though and I know Piper is tried and true so this is just an exception). ALL THIS TO SAY, regarding your verse... hahah is that when read in context, that whole section is about marriage and singleness regarding Corinthians who were already married or not married yet. Thus, your verse can safely be determined that it is about people who are already married versus ones that want to marry an unbeliever. May the Lord correct me if I have misspoken. Like Piper, i’m just trying my best to be helpful from a bible based standpoint. Lastly, I only wrote all this out because I legitimately had the same thought you did ha ha and I had to dig through all of that so I felt it was more rewarding if I shared what I just went through.
But if you excommunicate a Christian who marries a believer because they're living in sin, then shouldn't you also excommunicate every Christian who's living in sin? The alcoholics, people who have sex outside of marriage, liars, embezzlers, etc?
1 Corinthians 7:13-14 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
Yes, in some sense the unbelieving husband or wife is sanctified by the believer. But of course this doesn't mean that it is OK to marry an unbeliever. Paul himself speaks against this in v. 39 of the same chapter.
A lot of people have opinions but heres some bible facts not discussed in this podcast: Unfortunately, this podcast didn’t go into these biblical details and only spot picked one verse so I had to do some digging. The verse Piper picked doesn’t address marriage, its actually about RE-marriage. I believe every word in the Bible matters and that was not emphasized in this podcast. So then i thought The verses you just quoted, certainly made me think that it was OK to marry a non-believer. And just as importantly, that it would be OK for your children. However, I didn’t want to leave any stone unturned, so I started looking in the Bible to see if there were any other passages from the New Testament about marrying a non-believer. The Old Testament rules don’t apply in the sense that we are not under the law anymore. Rather, they are a guide for how the people of Israel should have lived back in that time (and have a few more purposes but not important for the purposes of this discussion). And so... boom, we come to 2 corinthians 6:14-17. Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. There’s much more to these verses but this is a clear commandment from Paul. So voila, the Bible is clear about not marrying an unbeliever, it’s just that this Bible podcast did not address the verse you selected and chose a verse focused on remarriage ha ha. But I get Piper’s intention. ONLY because I found 2 corinthians 6:14-17 though. So i think they were unintentionally sloppy on this podcast (most of their episodes are helpful though and I know Piper is tried and true so this is just an exception). ALL THIS TO SAY, regarding your verse... hahah is that when read in context, that whole section is about marriage and singleness regarding Corinthians who were already married or not married yet. Thus, your verse can safely be determined that it is about people who are already married versus ones that want to marry an unbeliever. May the Lord correct me if I have misspoken. Like Piper, i’m just trying my best to be helpful from a bible based standpoint. Lastly, I only wrote all this out because I legitimately had the same thought you did ha ha and I had to dig through all of that so I felt it was more rewarding if I shared what I just went through.
Your right your absolutely right. But the thing is, he's saying if you weren't married to them but you dated and married them knowing that they didn't believe in Jesus. The passage that your talking about (And I could be wrong), but bare with me. Can be talking about if your already married to them and then after marriage you put your faith in Jesus but your husband or your wife didn't.
@@neffetitiedwards1530 Ah yes I see, that makes perfect sense. Coming to an understanding while in the marriage. And then when speaking of the husband or wife changing their unbelieving spouses mind about the Faith maybe verse 16 could encourage the couple but idk. Thanks for your response!
@@BCDC123 I believe you’re right in the case of verse 16 “For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife? I heard the story on K-love, and this woman was married to a man that she loved deeply, for 37 years, he was an atheist, and slowly, as she would listen to k love he would shut it off, or change the channel and then he would listen to it. And then he started singing with her! And now he is saved!! Haha praise God! All glory goes to Him forever and ever. :’ )
As a Christian born and raised, I'm sorry but I find this very intolerant. There are many people who are non-Christians that are perfectly good people. Of course if your girlfriend/Fiancee makes it a point to make fun of your faith a good Christian would willingly (and likely happily) disengage from that relationship. I've stumbled many times in my life and I've always appreciated my family and friends who are Christians always reaching out to me to keep the faith. Matter of fact, I think I'll go tell them how much I appreciate them later
Pastor Piper has adviced from his deep love of Christ, his enjoyment of the Gospel and his adherence to the word of God is worthy of wholesome praise. However, I wouldn't advice anyone to do as he says. I'm not as learned as him, and I'm in no closeness to God, nowhere near as Pastor Piper, that's for sure. But as a faith we're doing it wrong if we just apply the word without loving examination. If her relationship with him was motivated by lust or any other worldly emotion at the helm it would be wise to adhere to the holy word as it is. But we must not make the mistake that the Pharisees made, of putting the law above love. If her relationship with him was motivated by wholesome love, then it was given by God. Only God puts that kind of love in a person's heart. Jesus, the perfect man, put his love for us above the law. Pastor Piper doesn't know God's plan for that couple, or if through that man's love for that believer woman, he'll come to Christ. We don't know, and we don't care to know either. Pastor Piper could have asked about the nature of the relationship, about the fruits of that relationship for both people involved. He didn't care about it, he stopped at the law and forgot about the love. As followers of Christ we must prioritize Godly love above strick adherance to a single interpretation of the holy word, because God acts through misterious means, else we run the risk of becoming like the pharisees instead.
Im no pastor and I know the answer to this question. you love the unbeliever. you accept and pour out the love and grace that God gives us onto them and make them feel welcomed.
That is different than marrying them, and if you truly love the unbeliever you will want them to repent, and be saved. Imagine how hard it would be to love and live with a person that you know ultimately will spend eternity in Hell, imagine what might happen to any children that come from such a marriage.
This is so dangerous. If you can't be faithful to God while single, you won't be able with an unbelieving spouse. They will start to pull you away from Christ and ultimately God will fight against your marriage.
If you love another more than you love Christ, you’re not worthy of Christ. Whether you love a believer or a non-believer more than you love Christ, thats unworthy. I don’t know why Pastor John only applies that to the unbeliever. I have found many faith professing christians have anger and unforgiveness in their hearts, as well as an extra helping of knowledge of good and evil, but knowledge cannot save us, it only helps us fall. We are saved by the blood of Christ bathing us in repentance and forgiveness. “Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us” To that end, I would rather court a humble non-believer than an intellectual know-it-all believer. And I shall not marry anyone who does not forgive others and especially her mother and father. And doing so I believe she would come back to a child-like faith like Christ calls us to
I'm sure John Piper would also agree that it's unworthy to love a believer more than Christ, but that wasn't relevant for the topic in this video. You should only court a devout Christian. If someone refuses to forgive, that is not a good sign that they are a genuine believer.
@@maxaplin4204 I see that there are a lot of Christians in name but not in action. Is it possible to be a Christian in action but not in name? Would it be wrong to court such a person? Thanks for your reply
@@Grizzly6XL You can't be a Christian in action unless you are acting through a belief in Christ (hence the title, Christian). I know what you mean, though. Some people whom I have met (and whom I desperately pray would know Jesus) seem to have "better" actions than some Christians I know... 🙄
@@Grizzly6XL You are right that there are a lot of Christians in name but not in action. I don't think that the opposite would happen - i.e., Christians in action but not in name, because confessing Christ as Lord is such an important part of the Christian life. For, example, in Matt 10:32-33 Jesus teaches: 'Therefore, everyone who will acknowledge me before others, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before others, I will also deny him before my Father in heaven.' (CSB) If someone doesn't openly confess that Jesus is Lord, I believe it would be wrong to court them.
A marriage covenant not approved of God is not a valid holy covenant. Staying in such a covenant is more of a sin as any person that remains in an occultic covenant. God does not honor a marraige becauase it is "legal" by the court system. It is only what "God" has joined together that should not be put asunder. If it is the devil that joins them together, it should be put asunder. If in a culture that allows a man to marry two sisters, a man marries two sisters legally, does not make it a righteous marraige when the Bible commands not to marry two sisters? I don't agree that a marraige to an unbeliever should be acceptable to the church just because "they have married". It is just remaining is sin. It is like stealing and repenting, but retaining the loot.
Why is ostracism the answer? Jesus never ostracized others; He did teach "distancing" though ("...let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."), but that's different from ostracism. I'm not a pastor, but I would have answered it differently. I would have said two verses right away. Romans 8:28 (KJV) "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." This means that because of the believing spouse's love for God, things will work together for that spouse's good. and 1 Corinthians 7:14 (KJV) "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." W.E. Vine's commentary on the previous verse is this: "the unbelieving husband or wife is relatively set apart through his or her believing partner, and abiding in the natural union instead of breaking it by leaving, receives a spiritual influence holding the possibility of actual conversion", which, if you'll think about it, can actually be congruent with Romans 8:28
I think that there is a lot wrong with that statement. For starters, ostracism is the answer because it is Biblical. Even in the example you gave, you agree with this. Jesus said to treat them as heathens or tax collectors, these people could not be a part of the church because they were unrepentant, likewise with modern-day unrepentant souls, they are to be excluded (ostracized) from the church, seen as an unbeliever in need of evangelism instead of a brother, because that is what they've shown themselves to be. Second, Romans 8:28 is completely irrelevant here. The Bible commands that believers are not to marry unbelievers. If the believer truly loved God, then they would obey his word and not commit a blatant sin. You cannot say "I am going to scam somebody for all they're worth, but because I love God then it will all work out for good for both of us." That is ludacris, if you love God, you wouldn't disobey Him by scamming. If you disobey Him, you cannot be certain He will bless it, in fact, you very well may be punished by Him, and you should be by the church as well because your soul is in danger. And finally, 1 Corinthians 7:14 is also irrelevant here. These instructions are for individuals who are married and then saved, and therefore has nothing to do with this. Paul later says, "how do you know if you will save your spouse?" The answer is that you don't, and it is a foolish, dangerous game to play thinking that you can blatantly disobey God and yet expect yourself to then reflect Christ accurately to your spouse in a manner that will edify them. More likely than not, you will be the one to cave because you have already shown your willingness to go against your faith for the sake of the relationship, and you will do it again, meaning your soul is in jeopardy. Because your soul is in jeopardy, the church must then act to attempt to preserve you and bring you back to your senses by disciplining you.
A couple of points: First, ostracism has 2 goals: (1) to bring the sinner to repentance; (2) to act as a deterrent so that others in the church don't sin in the same way. As Paul says in 1 Cor 5:6: 'Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little leaven leavens the whole batch of dough?' If sin is tolerated in a church, it can easily infect others. And in almost all circumstances it is a grave sin for a Christian to marry a non-believer. Second, the context of 1 Cor 7:14 is very different from the topic in this video. This video is about people who are already Christians marrying non-believers. 1 Cor 7:14 is about people who are already married to non-believers when they become Christians. In this verse Paul is saying that if someone becomes a Christian when already married to a non-believer, it is not a disaster. God is still in control. But there is no doubt that Paul would not want a Christian to get into that situation if they could avoid it.
@@maxaplin4204 Can you please point to any written testimony where by ostracism, a sinner has repented? Preferably one from the Bible please? "This video is about people who are already Christians marrying non-believers. 1 Cor 7:14 is about people who are already married to non-believers when they become Christians." Isn't that what the questioner meant from 0:28 to 0:35? To quote: "The believer was forewarned and went ahead with the union anyway; now the marriage has been formalized". So it does apply here because the marriage has already happened between a believer and a non-believer, based on the questioner's description.
@@Melech77 OK, a few points: First, in 1 Cor 5 Paul criticises the Corinthians for not excommunicating/ostracising a man who is in grave sin. It is debated whether this man is referred to as repentant in 2 Cor 2:5-7. I'm afraid I don't have time to look into this in detail to see if I think these passages are referring to the same man. However, the Bible clearly commands ostracism with a view to the sinner's repentance (1 Cor 5), so we can be confident that God wouldn't instruct this if it never works. Second, in my earlier comment I distinguished between (1) people who are already Christians before marrying a non-believer and (2) people who are already married to a non-believer before becoming Christians. I said that this video is about (1) and not (2), whereas 1 Cor 7:12-14 is about (2). But your quote from the questioner is also about (1)! 'The believer was forewarned and went ahead with the union anyway'. This clearly implies that this person is a believer before getting married, meaning that it is not like the situation of 1 Cor 7:12-14. Third, it is true that both the situation discussed in this video and 1 Cor 7:12-14 have in common a believer married to a non-believer. But the issue in the video is about church discipline for a sin that has been recently committed. So for the purposes of church discipline, 1 Cor 7:12-14 isn't relevant.
Dude, you hit the exact point I’m thinking about. Piper is wrong out removing the guy’s membership, we are clearly taught that you should be confronted first and given a chance to repent. And then there are much more instructions, but only after all of those instructions do you ostracize them. Bible up!
I don't understand why Piper always assumes that churches are functional as an organisation. Who said that elders from the church were involved? I'm not sure I've ever attended a church where I even knew who the elders were, much less heard of somebody receiving counsel from them in any sort of authoritative way. I bet this pastor simply had a few conversations with the person and nothing much came of it. That may be the limit of social ties in today's society. And surely the "response" is simply to love the person? Sooner or later this couple is going to discover they've put themselves in a hard place.
Most, if not all reformed churches work this way. You vote on elders, they make decisions along with the Pastor who is also an elder, a teaching elder. It is very concerning to be in a church and not know who, or have approved of the elders making church decisions.
@@ashleyparton-pelaez9886 I'm sure it varies widely but I often find there's a huge gap between the theology on paper and what actually happens procedurally, especially in the Reformed world. And from my vantage point, the social and cultural capital required to do what Piper describes is not insignificant. If we wanted to take this further, how did said person date and propose to the nonbeliever, presumably over a period of 12+ months, without getting anything from the church? The problem is so much deeper than what happened with regard to any church elders at the time of choosing to marry.
@@StarStrife100 yeah, I agree with Joyce here. When you exemplify a problem, you have to assume everything else is functional to make it as general as possible; otherwise you're just adding variables. A nonfunctioning church is a huge problem, but a separate problem nonetheless
@@StarStrife100 while others recommend you look for another church, I'll acknowledge that our world is woefully lacking in good, sound, biblical churches for many different reasons. Piper DOES describe a situation that requires "massive cultural and social capital" but that's the kind of church Scripture calls us to. Sadly, there are many places that lack this kind of church. This is both the fault of the churches themselves and the people who attend them. Those strong in the faith must bear with the failings of the weak, but doing so wisely is very challenging indeed. There's also simply a lack of good churches everywhere. Good, bible believing churches in the world isn't the norm, it's the exception.
Wow. Such arrogance and lack of compassion. How about repenting to this formal single adult in your church for idolizing marriage in the church so that singles feel inadequate or they are missing out. How about acknowledging the need of singles for intimacy and companionship in the body. I am an older single adult who has always desired marriage and felt like an outsider in many of the former churches I have been a member. I have had pastors that don’t even feel comfortable shaking my hand. If I had been dating at that time I would not even shared it.How about empathy.? Praying for the marriage and the salvation of the unbelieving spouse . Was it the best choice maybe not but it is not deserving of church discipline. This is what is wrong with complentarianism a nutshell .
While the church does need to repent of it's idolizing of marriage. And more willingly embrace singles, even celebrate their greater freedom to serve the Lord. That does not justify having no response of church discipline on some level for a professing believer and member who willingly and knowingly goes against both Scripture and the leading of their church body. Such rebellion is very serious, and it's ultimately against Christ. Anyone who rebels against Him, His Word and His Church is very possibly not a genuine believer, and needs to be shaken up by church discipline, with the hope that they would either repent from their sinful choice, or would realize they haven't truly made Christ their Lord, not just their loving Savior.
You are confusing a number of issues here. A few points, if I may: First, it is not arrogant or lacking in compassion to discipline Christians when they fall into sin. This is the main point of 1 Cor 5. For a Christian to marry a non-believer is a grave sin and needs strong discipline. Second, yes, marriage is very commonly idolised in the church. In 1 Cor 7:7 Paul teaches that, all other things being equal, singleness is to be preferred. Third, complementarianism is a separate issue.
This is a completely different issue though. I definitely understand your struggle, I'm glad I found a church that's not afraid of physical contact. Not sure how anything he said was arrogant.
If it is not a marriage from God, and it causes you to pull away from Christ, GOD WILL FIGHT AGAINST YOUR MARRIAGE. God will put it on your heart to leave or cause your unbelieving spouse to leave because your obedience. God hates divorce but He hates sending people to Hell more. This is where I disagree with Piper. God may in the future want this woman to divorce for the sake of her soul and she should divorce and stay unmarried for life.
My only problem with this message is... "the Banning Church membership? " Really? Did God call you juror and judge now? I've been to churches that demand your membership after so many visits... where do y'all find even MEMBERSHIPS in a biblical reference? Turn your back on a sister/ BROTHER for a mistake... 🤔 Maybe, that widows mind and heart is messed up. But , you ain't been through it.. so how would you even know, huh? Did you visit her like God commanded?🤔 Why not help her instead of kicking her while she's down?? Because your perfect... correct?..lol. I am that widow and not a one if y'all bothered to help me..so put your self righteous condemning, law abiding, ungrateful, ( UN-GRACEFULL) ways where your hearts are...up your behind. Explain to Jesus one day how you were to busy condemning the widows fear grief and confusion to lend a helping hand. See how far that gets you. Remember, if you choose to NOT DEPEND on GRACE but keep ONE part of the law you must keep it ALL.. Shalom
A few points in reply, if I may: First, excommunication from the church is a biblical practice that aims to bring the sinner to repentance and to deter others in the church from sinning. So, for example, in 1 Cor 5:1-2 Paul tells the Corinthians: 'It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and the kind of sexual immorality that is not even tolerated among the Gentiles--a man is sleeping with his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Shouldn't you be filled with grief and remove from your congregation the one who did this?' (CSB) Marrying a non-believer is also a grave sin that needs to be similarly disciplined. You complain about Christians being judge and juror. But in the same chapter, in verses 12-13, Paul explicitly tells his readers to judge in this way: 'For what business is it of mine to judge outsiders? Don't you judge those who are inside? God judges outsiders. Remove the evil person from among you.' (CSB) Second, I am very sorry to hear of your bereavement. But suffering is never an excuse for disobeying biblical principles. Being single is hard. I know, because I have been single for all of my 51 years. But God is here to help me, and I would never consider marrying a non-believer. Third, I don't know the details of your experience of being badly treated and not helped by others. I am sorry to hear about it. But that is really a different issue.
Yes, God did put His church in authority over those within it. 1 Corinthians 11-13 "But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." Paul tells us to not even eat with an unrepentant person. He also tells us to remove them from our midst. How else are we supposed to take that? You are right, we are not perfect, but a truly saved person, when confronted about their sin will repent, those who hard-heartedly refuse to accept they sinned are likely not saved and, in an attempt to preserve the church from sin and to encourage the repentance of the unrepentant one, they need to discipline them.
@@maxaplin4204 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? And please don't try to compare your being single 51 years to a couple who was married 34 years. God allows us to go through hardships to comfort others as they through it. Obviously you can't conceive it, so please don't say nothing at all...
@@sandraking7085 A few points: First, yes, there is a wrong kind of judging that Jesus speaks against in Matthew 7. But Paul also instructs Christians to judge in 1 Cor 5:12-13. So there is a positive kind of judging and negative kind. You need to accept what Paul says in these verses and not blame those of us who don't brush them aside. Second, I have read a number of your comments on this video, and it is very ironic that your spirit seems to be very judgmental. You seem to be very bitter for some reason and to be quick to fire out accusations at people. For example, you say that I shouldn't compare myself being single for 51 years with you being married for 34 years. But you must know that you hadn't told me how long you were married. And I expressed sympathy with your bereavement, but you were nasty to me in return. What's going on? It is really quite remarkable that you criticise people for being judgmental, yet it is some time since I interacted with anyone as judgmental as you!
@@maxaplin4204 I'm aware that we are to judge the sin and not sinner. I watched your video and I was taken aback by the judgment you told the church to employ on others marital mistakes sir.....So for you to imply I'm judgmental is ironic to say the least. However, I would like to add I grew up in a Church that had the same beliefs as yours. When a greasy biker stumbled in one day..nobody offered to shake his hand. Instead they stared at him until he left. I ask you, is that what Jesus would have Christians do? Our new pastor was young, and wore shorts one day. They accused' him of being demon possesed until he left the church. My cousin got pregnant out of wedlock ( mistakes happen to Christian's too, right?..) and they were told unless they both stood in front of the church and confessed their sins , they were no longer allowed to be members. Both left indefinitely. The church is not their saviour..its a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It's called mercy.. it's called Grace. If the Lord practices it, aren't we called to be like him as well? My point. Law abiding Christians can be the worst "hypocrites" there are and cause MANY to turn from salvation which is meant to be simple and free for all. It's a gift. Not earned through the church. And thank God, or we'd all be in trouble! Have a blessed evening brother. Shalom
As a believer and lover of Jesus Christ, committed to him and his leading, I'd point to the Gospel of Grace that HE came to give and what he died for. No where in the bible did Jesus turn ANYONE away even the worst sinner, and WE are CALLED to be JUST LIKE HIM as believers. Putting a dividing line between me as a believer and an unbeliever as if I'm supposed to reject them and NOT LOVE THEM AND/OR SHOW THEM GRACE LIKE JESUS MODELED FOR ME is just wrong (whether its for marriage or not). If anyone who is a believer decides to LOVE an unbeliever, and decides to marry them, what is it to you? (as Jesus said in John 21:22) That's not YOUR choice, that's the other person's choice and that decision is between that person and Jesus NOT anyone else. He allows us free will for a reason and that includes believers not just unbelievers. Whatever happens (good or bad) in that relationship (between a believer and unbeliever) let that be between them and Jesus within the confines of the believers personal, intimate relationship with Jesus. Bottom line, hate the sin not the sinner. That's what HE modeled for us when he was here on earth. (By the way, no, I'm not married nor dating an unbeliever in case you are wondering about the motivation behind my point of view).
Please don't call wanting to get down with someone "love." People these days dangerously twist the meaning of the word love to mean sex and that's what your doing. A Christian and a non Christian are incompatible. Plus, what about the part about not being unequally yoked? I have every right to question a person who thinks they can do things like that. You can love unbelievers without marrying them. What a dangerous message you send.
@@dog_curry i never said anything about "getting down with someone is love." I never said that. You interpreted what I said about love as "sex outside of marriage" and I never said that YOU interpreted that. The gospel message of Grace to love an unbeliever is NOT dangerous and I never called it "sex." Jesus came to LOVE SINNERS and FORGIVE and SAVE SINNERS. That's basically my point. Question whatever you want but what other people choose to do or not do is basically not your concern. It's God's concern. Live YOUR life and follow Jesus and extend love and grace to others; again love the sinner not the sin. That was my message nothing else.
@@josiewelsy1 Your advice is dangerous and can actually lead to the spiritual death of the believer. If a person cannot remain faithful to God as a single person, they will have even more difficulty with an unbelieving spouse. If someone is unsaved, they will eventually lead you into sin. Bad company corrupts good morals. Even moreso for a spouse! Not only that, you can ruin your testimony for your spouse and they may never be saved because you were not a consistent godly influence.
@@DeanaJacksonFrazier ..and likewise, if someone is saved they can also eventually lead you into salvation. It works both ways (1 Corinthians 7:14). with all due respect, you don't have to like nor accept my comment. Stay safe with just the believers, do as you wish so long as you do it with love and grace like Jesus. Because he came to love everyone! And his one and only primary command is to *love* one another (John 13:34-35). Especially the unbeliever whom he died for (Romans 5:8).
@@josiewelsy1 At one point, I thought like you. It ended up being a nightmare. The reality is that more often than not, an unbeliever corrupts a believer.
John Piper is absolutely right that Christians shouldn't marry non-Christians. However, I do think that there are probably extremely rare exceptions to this. The sort of thing I have in mind is something like the following: In a deeply Islamic country a teenage girl comes to Christ. Her Muslim father tells her that she must marry a certain young Muslim man in an arranged marriage. She says that she won't because she is a Christian. Her father tells her that he will kill her if she doesn't, and she knows he is serious. (This does happen. It is what is known as an honour killing.) She decides to go ahead with the marriage. I think in situations like this it is probably God's will for a Christian to marry a non-believer. But this would obviously be extremely rare.
@@mybigfatexpatlife6865 We should certainly love God more than anything, including our own lives. I wasn't for a moment suggesting that we should compromise on that. But I would want to make a couple of points. First, I think it might sometimes be most loving towards God for a girl in the situation I mentioned to marry a non-believer. One main reason why marrying a non-believer is usually wrong is because it will massively hinder what that Christian can achieve for God. But I think sometimes a girl in this situation might be able to achieve more for God by remaining alive in a bad marriage and continuing to do some sort of Christian work on earth than by dying. Second, the Bible itself leads us to believe that exceptional situations sometimes arise where something that would normally be sinful is not now sinful. A good example is the midwives in Exod 1:15-21. In this passage, the midwives lie to Pharaoh in order to stop babies being murdered. And God blesses the midwives. In normal circumstances lying is wrong. But in this example, and in other biblical examples too, lying is condoned by God because of the dire situation. (I am not saying that lying is acceptable in every dire situation. For example, we must never deny that we are Christians, even if it costs us our lives.)
@@maxaplin4204 the midwives were lying to prevent another sin. Marrying a Muslim does not prevent sin. Why is life so precious that we have to compromise our beliefs in order to continue with it? I am a privileged person living in a first world country with an abundance of resources at my disposal, and freedom to do so many things; I have no idea what it's like to be in that situation. However, if I were in that situation, I hope I choose death.
@@dog_curry I applaud the way that you are looking to obey God above all else. However, I would want to make a few points in reply: First, marrying a Muslim in the example I gave would in fact prevent another sin - the sin of murder. It would stop the father of the girl murdering her. Second, we should never compromise on what we believe is the will of God. Nor should we compromise on our beliefs. But I would say that our beliefs should sometimes allow for rare exceptions to principles. So if we believe that it might be the will of God occasionally for a believer to marry a non-believer, we wouldn't be compromising on our beliefs. Third, I think it is possible you might be right that it is never the will of God for a believer to marry a non-believer in any circumstances. But I doubt it. I can easily see God wanting some girls in the above situation to stay alive so that they can do Christian work for him.
@@maxaplin4204 That does make sense. It looks like God does allow sinning to prevent another sin. But then another question arises- why aren't we killing everyone to prevent them from sinning? I would like to know your thoughts on that.
MIU SIK, our modern culture (especially American) encourages independence, freedom, liberty. In honor of those values we should let others do whatever they want. But those values are counter to those of God's Word. We are called to be servants of Christ, which can often look like giving up our freedom, submitting to authorities in humility, and serving God more than our own desires. If we truly have Christ as our Lord, we must obey him. He calls us to love His Church, and protect her, by warning the members against unrepentant sin. Living in such sin likely indicates a lack of genuine saving faith. And a lack of saving faith is very serious. We are all condemned to eternal damnation without it.
Thanks for teaching so clearly and boldly about this. I hear so many people try to dance around the issue.
This is why I don't date outside of the Faith. Had to break up with my girlfriend of 3 years after I realized her profession of Faith didn't line up with her actions and beliefs.
That must have sucked man.
Wow I went through the exact same situation, also for three years. I feel your pain, and would also never date outside the faith again.
Well done for putting the Lord first.
Not everyone that gets baptized in water receives the Holy Spirit. So if they don't or receive that gift or comforter from God then they're not of Faith.
@@abrm31222 that’s because water has nothing to do with receiving the Holy Spirit, water Baptism is the outward expression of calling on the name of the Lord in faith not a act in which one is made regenerate, it is through faith one is United to Christ and that’s on Gods timetable not anyone else’s.
Me and my wife were unbelievers. She had a double life of faith where she participated of Catholic church, but also she made witchcraft. I was agnostic and I could not care less about her faith. I turned myself to Christ without anyone involved in this process, because I felt God calling me: suddenly I felt that Christ words were truth and I start to believe it. Then I started to read the bible, to study it, then I turned myself to Christ, I confessed my faith, I started to pray and God responded all my questions about the bible. I convinced my wife to gradually abandon witchcraft and turn herself truly to a life in Christ, because she even left the church after some point and she was going for a destructive path. She followed my lead and she changed her mind and her behavior.
On our path to repentance, we were gradually abandoning our past lives. We destroyed pagan books and witchcraft stuff that she owned, she got out of her pagan groups. I abandoned my satanist music and many, many other things that were against God. This path of repentance is not over. We are, day by day, learning to walk in Christ, learning about holiness, fasting, life of prayer and living only to glorify God. We would be at this point at some church, but all churches around us are closed because of the pandemic. Many addictions and many sins got behind us and I'm so thankful to God for that. And the path continues. I'm eager for more repentance and more relationship with the Holy Spirit and more learning into building my character in Christ. I don't recognize anymore who I was years ago and it's all thanks to God. Everything I learn with the preachers, with bible study (and with study bible) and with theology books, I teach her. And God is teaching me with many ways, including dreams, trials and using other Christians.
God works in mysterious ways. I would not condone this couple before learning what fruit they will bear from this relationship. God can reach the hearth of an unbeliever and change it. Even so, Pastor John have experience about this issue that I don't have, so I would follow his advice for sure.
Thank you for your transparency Brother in sharing your testimony! Sounds like the coronavirus season has also been a tremendous blessing to you and your wife, drawing you closer to our Holy Father and studying The Bible, as it also has for me. I pray you and your wife continue to be blessed in this precious time of consecration to The LORD. .
So happy to hear about your testimony, my brother. Praise be to God. But, you married an unbeliever when you were an unbeliever. Pastor John is talking about a believer marrying an unbeliever. Both are different. And bible is very clear on both subjects.
Você é brasileiro? Que legal ouvir sua jornada e perceber como o Espírito Santo trabalhou na vida de vocês! Que Ele seja glorificado por isso! Que Ele continue guiando e guardando vocês. Um abraço fraterno!!
Praise the Lord 🎉🎉❤
I say hallelujah and praise the Lord for your testimony!!! May the spirit of the Lord guide you even deeper into His love and revelation. Thank you for sharing and encouraging me to walk righteously as well!!!! Bless you brother!
I was 19 when i met my unbelieving husband. I had a child outside of marriage within 6 months.
I was saying i believed in God my whole life and said the prayers of salivation, however, i believe i was very deceived, i was not living the life of a Christian. I was also attending a deceptive church..
I felt guilty being with an unbeliever, yet i felt i was stuck in the position of having a child with him.
I went to my pastor and told him my guilt of living in fornication and being with an unbeliever. I told him that I wanted to abstain until marriage but he hadn't proposed yet. However, he told me i cant just stop being intimate him because that's cruel to a man. He said I was under God's grace even while in this sin because we have a kid while unmarried. He said we were already spiritually married.
I was SO VERY confused. In tears. We ended up having twins. He finally proposed, I felt the right thing was to marry him and not break up our family.
Now, i have come out of deception and completely turned my life around. I have come to the true understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ and why I an in need of a savior.
I feel my job now is to live for God and let my life be a testimony to my husband. He is supportive and will go to church with me if I ask. He doesnt ovject to me teaching our children about God. We pray every day for his salvation. He says he will believe if he sees proof of God. But what he has seen from churches in deception has pushed him away. He also believes Christianity cannot be the only way to heaven. It breaks my heart. But im believing in God. He knows his heart. I cannot force anything. I can only be diligent in my prayers for him. 🙏🙏
Keep praying, my sister. The Lord will reveal Himself to your husband when the time is right. Have faith. He will do wonders in your life.
I'm in the same situation God bless you and I'm praying for you!
@@chuckstrains7604 thank you! Same for you!
@@kajananselvarajah2723 thank you!
@@Nicole-po7mp s o you marry a atheist or hindu or muslim or jews which religons your husband following and your child also following which religons?
Very good teaching.
I am impressed that John Piper is prepared to excommunicate professing Christians who marry non-believers.
A marriage is an extremely deep bond between 2 people, so to marry a non-believer is bound to massively impact the believer's walk with the Lord. And I think this should be disciplined with excommunication until there is genuine repentance.
I became a true believer while already engaged and had 2 children with an unbeliever. After my conversion i had a choice to either leave my partner and thus my children, or marry her. I could no longer live in sin by living with her unmarried, but i also did not want to split up my family but i also had convictions of marrying a non-believer.
After counsel from church leadership they advised I should marry her as it didn’t seem like God would want to leave my kids without a father in the home.
It is difficult. The closer I get to Christ the further I get from her. It does teach me how to love someone better, it teaches me to be patient and helps me to learn not to be judgmental. At times our mindsets are so far apart but I keep my convictions to the best of my ability.
my children are being raised to love God and to pray at night and come to church with me on the weekends.
I wonder if I made the right decision. Regardless, I will love God and follow the narrow path and love my wife and children.
I am in this exact situation but engaged. Also, with someone who seems to say they are a believer, but the fruits of the spirit aren't there (which I hate making that judgement call but it's what I see). No conviction of sin at all, no reading of the word, me not wanting to fornicate was a huge issue once I was saved...I'm stuck not knowing what to do. Knowing the heart is deceitful, I just want to move out and be done, but I don't want to break up the family due to our 3 kids which I feel is sinful. I just want God to free me from this burden. 😪
I think you were bound to each other and became one flesh when you slept with each other and thereby formed a family. In that sense, the church was preserving that union that was already created. Paul's advice to people who become Christians who are already bound to non-Christians applies -- remain together if the non-Christian spouse will remain with you.
What Piper fails to mention is that being married to someone, without God, can destroy your spouse spiritually. If your spouse is a carnal or lukewarm Christian, or even more so, an unbeliever; your attempts to win them Christ by being an example and encouraging them to draw closer to God; may lead to them despising you and rejecting God. They may become lost because they were never truly ready for a truly saved spouse and had no idea of the pressure put on them to be truly saved.
Therefore, you can make your spouse reject Christ if you are a godly influence. But what may likely also happen is your spouse may draw you into carnality if they are a carnal Christian; or into sin if they are an unbeliever. This will eventually ruin your testimony for Christ, and again, cause your spouse to reject God when they see a so- called Christian sinning.
Thus, many Christians in the comments, are only seeking a spouse because of themselves- their loneliness, their emptiness, their pain. And they may be tempted to risk their relationship with God to make themselves happy. But what about your spouse? If God doesn't ordain the marriage, you can cost them their soul and be the deciding factor of why they end up in hell. What a terrible feeling! Now, God allows for marriages to stay together if a couple is already married and one becomes a believer but if one is single then they should remain that way until God provides a spouse. To do otherwise may damn yourself; but even worse, the one you dearly love, your spouse. You do not want this on your conscience.
Also, what is ironic is that you may end up single anyway. Your spouse may leave because they may reject the pressure to be saved if you are a godly spouse. Or you may have to leave because of repeatedly being drawn into lukewarmness or sin if you are not a godly spouse.
Therefore, single Christians should be content to be single because you can ruin someone else's life and soul. It is not all about you. This is from someone who ignored God, got married, and had a terrible 10 year marriage. My husband is still unsaved and may now never seek God because of my ungodly behavior by being drawn into sin. I also terribly hurt my relationship with God in the process. And end the end I am now single which is what God asked of me in the first place. I deeply regret this and wish I would have been content in Christ alone.
I was with this girl. I experienced almost everything you’ve explained. They’re quite confident in their unbelieving and I knew that. It caused me to become lukewarm and mute how I felt.
That being said I asked my past relationship for advice but the words came out wrong. My then girlfriend found out and saw how I was telling my ex that I was worried my girlfriend didn’t believe in God. We broke up and now she is even farther form believing in the Lord and it’s my fault.
Prime example as you mentioned of how it can damage others and ourselves.
My heart and mind still want to work things out though. We’re both young and maybe she could open her eyes. That’s an unrealistic expectation but I’m still maybe learning to accept that.
I can tell you that I married a non-Christian during a period when I had left the church and was essentially living a non-Christian life and it has been a very difficult time. I believe that Satan has a much bigger ability to get in and create havoc and I’m now walking through the heartbreaking challenge of having a young believing daughter who can’t properly rejoice in the thought of heaven as immediately she think of “what about Mum”?
I know that pain as my Dad left church before I way born and I’ve spent my life worrying about his salvation.
Just some real life experience of “why not to do it”
If you could, would you have chosen not to marry your spouse?
@@davida6146 that’s hard to say.
I love her and we’ve had lots of happiness together. But also a LOT of heartache that probably wouldn’t be there otherwise. Especially around decisions that really need to involve trusting God. Or just getting your own thinking straight
I'm still an unmarried person. I know all those things in this video. I prayed for my love, but it seems to be an unanswered prayer. I started to think of having an unbeliever. But at the same time, I am also afraid that could ruin my life, and will get divorced badly. Thank you for the preaching.
Any move made in desperation is destined for disaster. While being single may be lonely, a bad marriage can be lonely and/or excruciating. Don't give up on Him. Whether you remain single your whole life or you end up married, that other person CANNOT be your source of joy. Only God can bring true joy and peace.
If you seek to find someone......draw closer to Christ. Wait and be patient. If it's not happening fast enough , that means God is doing work on you. Throw aside the images and the fake reality of what the world regards as relationship. God wants to show you his way. Who ever he gives to you will be beautiful and perfect , but you must first choose Christ and lose yourself in him. Walk away from Hollywood worldy, celebrity nonsense, none of it is real.🙏🏽♥️
Wait on the Lord. I too was in your position so I went for an unbeliever. We dated for 3+ years than I rejected him when he proposed to me because I just couldn't bear my guilt. Tonight I feel completely broken. He was my best friend and he was loyal, kind, good etc much better in character than the Christian men I met in my community. But he didn't care about Jesus. I don't think I made the wrong choice because Jesus is my everything but I do feel alone. I hurt my best friend and the person I love so much. I should have never entered into the relationship if I was going to back out like this.. I thought if I prayed he will come to Christ but it's not happening now. I just need to let it out.
Something to remember is that God never promised a husband/wife. If you feel that your prayer is unanswered, maybe God is saying either yes, not yet, or no.
@@douglasmcnay644 whole life??? I guessed you are a married man
I was thinking about this topic the other day and God has spoken.
That makes two of us☺️
Three of us.
me too！
Me too.
I have a brethren in such a dilemma
I find it troubling how many preachers seem to think that doing nothing in the church to help single Christian’s meet each other for marriage will end well . Way too much focus on the problem after the sin and not enough focus on helping people where it really matters. I know of very few ministries that help singles as they keep getting older and the internal pressure is there and God isn’t taking it away and no one seems to care.
Amen 🙏🏻 thank you for teaching on this!!!
You are welcome God bless you Beloved, I don't know you. in person but God knows you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (BANABAS MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state Nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348079861301) tell him I sent an you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you .......
Good word, instructions Pastor John stay well and be blessed!
Very wise words Pastor John. I love this
wow such powerful words. I never really thought that deeply about all this, and in hearing this question my initial thought was “what's the big deal?”, without realising that the non-believing spouse is not 'respecting his/her spouse', but rejecting Christ! I cannot really fathom what local tradition or distorted thought I had that made me believe it wasn't that good to date a non-believer but wasn't but wasn't that evil either.
I have heard friends' non-believing significant others say 'they respect christianity' without realising despite what they say they reject Christ!
Oh, how difficult it is to live rightly in this world where such evil is openly accepted!
Great insight on this topic
This is a good, biblical response, thank you!!!
Thank you
Pastor John, how do you define excommunication? Could you explain? How should it play out practically?
I almost made that mistake of doing that. Truth be told I fell away from God but when I was on fire for him, I was suggesting marrying someone that didn't believe because I knew that eventually he will come to Jesus after me praying for him.
I don't think you could be so sure that he would come to Jesus. And in any case a Christian should only want to be in a Jesus-team marriage from the outset.
You prayers don’t have the power to convert a person my friend, and no Christian can fall away as they are kept by God and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
I don't like that Pastor John is taking 2 verses out of context; 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 and 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 ....to justify removing people from his church. These verses are not talking about a man who wants to marry a non-believer... one is talking about a man who doesn't want to work for his food and shelter, and the other is talking about a man who is sexually immoral. These clearly are sins the bible is talking about. I believe it is a highly recommended and sound strategy to marry a Christian if you are Christian, but God works in mysterious ways, and for those situations, there is the Grace of God. 1 Corinthians 7:9 However, if they are unable to exercise self-control, they should marry, for it is better to be married than to burn with passion.
I'm not advocating that Christians should marry non-Christians, but there should not be a hard line.... and it's definitely definitely not a justification to kick them out of your church for trying to obey 1 Corinthians 7:9 .....To Pastor John - You sound like a shrewd man. I would be more concerned about the sin in your own life than that of a man who just doesn't want to burn in lust and try his best to make his life work. There are worse things you can do :| Remember John 8:7 ....Jesus didn't say 'he without sexual sin' he said 'Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.'
Discipline can only happen by the hand of someone who loves that individual (the sinner). Did your heart ache when you had to remove that person from your church? Or was it easy? Just curious
Okay how early or how late do you upload these videos?😂
this is going to end badly
What do you mean?
Sometimes marriages like that ends beautifully with the Spouse coming to Jesus Christ and putting their faith in him
@@neffetitiedwards1530 Yes, but a large majority of the time that doesn't happen, from what I have seen. And in any case, it is the wrong thing for a Christian to do, because a Christian marriage needs to be up and running in spiritual unity from the beginning.
@@neffetitiedwards1530 The thing with that is, if you already show that you will disobey God by marrying an unbeliever, how can it then be expected that you will reflect Christ well enough for the sanctification of your spouse. If you try to witness to your spouse they'll just think to themselves, "they don't even love God enough to obey him, why are they trying to get me to? He clearly isn't that important to them, so why should I want what he offers?" It is just bad news all around, and it should not be done, period.
Godbless ....
Well said!
I dated and married an unbeliever and I repented for this. I wish I was attending a bible based church that got me by the shoulder to shake me up with Gods truth. I deceived myself. I wasn’t attending any church at the time. Sanctify and help my family Lord!!!!
Same
Do not mix yolk has nothing to do with race that has to do with being a Christian do not mix unchristian and Christian
This is truly a biblical answer...❣❣❣
I actually think this teaching could be quite dangerous in some parts of the world. Let’s say you’re somewhere where the percentage of Christians is very small and actually potential Christian life partners rarely if ever cross your path. What happens is that Christians often end up marrying the first Christian that does cross their path - however incompatible they are. I have seen this many times and it always ends in tears. Some of the worst marriages I've ever come across started in this way - they are far worse than marriages where a Christian is married to a decent human being who non-Christian but is not obstructive to the Christian's faith. I mean yes God is sovereign and can miraculously bring the perfect life partner along regardless of where you are. But God's normal way of working is through normal means. He doesn't normally drop money on our lap: we're supposed to go out and work. in the same way, if we want to find a life partner, we normally have to go looking for one. I also think that this is sometimes a "system" issue. By that I mean, where (usually) single women significantly outnumber single men in church circles then that is the fault of churches and single women shouldn't be expected to shoulder the burden of lifelong singleness or church discipline because churches have failed to win men for Christ.
Wow... I have thought about this a lot lately. How do we fix this systemic issue? There are soo many potential Godly, marriage-aged women, while marriageable men of the same standards/potential are lacking in church settings. The ratio of marriageable women to men in church is soo skewed, that I have heard several stories of women in their 40s single, devasted, and unmarried giving up hopes on ever being able to have children.
It's easy to preach the bible and bible bash, without providing real solutions to real problems. I think the elders also ought to come up with ways to help these women that have been trying to do their best. Women that have attempted to stay within biblical confines for most of their fertile lives, in vain.
Thanks for speaking up.
I can understand your concern, and yeah, I've definitely been in churches that were predominantly female, and perhaps part of this is on us males for falling short in bringing other men to Christ and to the church; however, I also want to challenge a few of the presuppositions in your thoughts too:
1. It is not necessarily God's will for everyone to be married.
Depending on where you are, I think church culture can tend to jump on the bandwagon of societal culture that romantic love and marriage are among the ultimate aims of life. But the only marriage that the Bible guarantees is our union with Christ. God may will it that we find a spouse in this life, but He may also will it that we remain single (and that is not a bad thing, as Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 7, singleness can be an advantage for doing ministry).
2. Our obedience to Christ is more important than our happiness in marriage.
It is heartbreaking that there are marriages in the church that we see are unhealthy and not reflections of Christ's love for the church. However, if we look at scripture, especially passages like the sermon on the mount, we can see that Jesus's calling for us to love and live in righteousness isn't always comfortable or easy, and often puts us at the disadvantage in life and relationships. Now that doesn't mean anyone should marry a Christian who seems like they would make a poor spouse, but it also doesn't mean that they should opt to marry a nonbeliever either. Our call is to holiness and obedience to Christ and if we can't do that in marriage, then we must do it in singleness.
3. What a healthy Christian marriage should look like:
You used the word "incompatible", which can mean a lot of things. But I want to make the argument that two Christians, who are both loving Jesus and striving to love each other the way that He commands, should still be able to have a Christ-glorifying marriage, regardless of any issues of incompatibility. Yes, we should use wisdom in choosing our spouse; yes, being married to someone who is incompatible might make the marriage more challenging, but I would argue that in the situations you've referenced, the problem was probably less from incompatibility and more from the failure on the part of the two believers to love and submit to each other the way God commands.
But yeah, sorry all that was so long, and kudos to you if you've actually read it all. What you mentioned are legitimate concerns, and it's alright to consider them, but I think, as Christians, at the end of the day we have to ask ourselves: What is better, to pursue holiness and follow God's commandments? Or to heed our own wisdom in pursuit of our own desires?
Anyways, hope this was helpful for you somehow. God bless!
@@LightDragon777 .
I wish I had an answer for this question about marriage to an unbeliever in more complex situations. The situation I'm thinking of involves a believer from an unreached people where arranged marriages are the norm. Obviously the commands of Scripture are the same. But in the context where marriage is an expectation in the society, and there aren't any believing potential spouses in the area, and where marriage is a family choice rather than just a personal choice, I wonder if this changes anything about how the question is answered.
The Bible answers this exact question in 1 Corinthians 7:13-14.
Beware if a “church leader” avoids the clear, biblical answer, and instead, provides a self-serving answer. Did you notice this “church leader” provides an answer that focuses on requiring the believer to get permission from the church elders regarding who to marry. It also dictates that the believer apologize to church leaders for marrying a non-believer.
Also, this “church leader” completely misinterpretes the Bible verses about excommunication. In Matthew 18:15-18, Jesus describes excommunication as being appropriate for someone who continues to live in sin, not someone who “sinned” in the past. Otherwise, we’d all be excommunicated.
The answer in this video is what you might expect from a Pharisee, not from a disciple of Jesus. Jesus taught that we should love and encourage each other, not excommunicate members who have committed sins in the past or neglect to get approval from and/or apologize to “leaders in the church.”
My answer to this question is to read 1 Corinthians 7:13-14 and Matthew 18:15-18. Also, pray about how you can best show love and encouragement to the believer and their non-believing spouse.
In that situation, I would hope I’d be led to show love, not condemnation, and help that couple to come to Christ together. Also, I hope my prayers would lead me to help them find a truly Christian community that doesn’t try to excommunicate them for past “sins” like not having elders approve their choice in a spouse and not apologizing to church leaders afterwards.
Agreed!!!! This guy really needs to look into ex-communication...
This was so helpful, Pastor John. We are walking into the situation right now with my sister. Do you have any articles or videos where you discuss how we ought to consider attendance at the ceremony, since she is a Christian and her fiance is not? Weve really struggled to know what to do.
i am in the same boat , not sure how to navigate
@@hannah-rosebjelan1807 So sorry to hear that. I ended up attending as an observer, but not a celebrant. It was challenging to not clap/toast often, but I feel that I was able to maintain a respectful and kind presence. Feelings were hurt, but have already started to mend a couple months after the fact.
While I agree in general, I would point out an issue with this response - what of people who have already made commitments before they began to follow Christ? What of people with children out of wedlock, what of men who have already effectively married a woman, and after becoming a Christian feels convicted to be there for the wife that he refused to acknowledge or accept? Would that not possibly be an act of repentance to make right what he has done wrong?
There may be circumstances that would be very difficult to judge, and would largely depend on the heart of the individual, and the circumstances.
I hesitate to say out of respect for him but I think Piper is being too strong here (that is to say, goes further than the bible does). He talks about "explicit" biblical commands forbidding marriage between believers and unbelievers but the verses he quotes are no such thing and he should know it. "She is free to marry whoever she wishes but he must belong to the Lord" is written specifically to widows (you can argue that it's therefore implicit for first marriages too but this is by definition not "explicit") and the "not worthy of me" mentions only parents and children (again, there's an argument to be had about implicit principle but it is not explicit on this topic).
Given the lack of explicit command I could well believe a sincere believer would not think it forbidden to marry an unbeliever and so the act is not necessarily deliberate defiance (Piper's first level of sinfulness).
I am no expert in this but it does seem this is an area the bible gives some freedom (as it often does and one would expect for a book misistering across many times and cultures) and the believer needs to think, read and pray hard to discover what God's will is for their situation. I do believe it is often unwise for Christians to marry non-christians and so I haven't done it myself (given they couldn't be united on the deepest/spiritual level and there are questions to be asked about whether the believer is truly prioritising Christ in their life) but I am of the opinion Piper is overstepping the bible here by his blanket condemnation. It may seem admirably "bold" and "clear" but I would say being so unequivocal lacks the nuance of the biblical revelation.
I disagree because of what happened in my marriage. I was unequally yoked for a 10 year marriage and am now 33 and soon to be divorced. My husband caused me to backslide, which is what being married to an unbeliever ultimately causes. If you cannot be faithful to God while being single, you will surely fail being faithful to God with an unbelieving spouse. Bad company corrupts good manners. You may say this is for acquaintances, but even more so for a spouse! So not only can you hinder your relationship with God, you can cause your spouse to reject God because you have ruined your testimony of Christ. In this, you are not only damning yourself but also your spouse. I know you are being optimistic and so was I. I thought I could change my spouse but he changed me. Now I don't know if I can ever be forgiven for falling away from God. This is a serious topic with eternal consequences and should not be rationalized away.
Agreed. This severe perspective I believe comes more from personal experience dealing with damage done through such relationships than from scripture. It is tempting to put up stricter boundaries than the Bible itself in order to keep people as far from danger as possible, but that itself is a danger. One clear way to tell the strict boundary is man-made is by watching how the rule changes when the circumstances become complicated by a premarital pregnancy. If the couple has "only" had premarital sex, it's sin if you go forward with a marriage, but if the sex produces a pregnancy then the sin does a flip: then it's sin to abandon the relationship. The logic of the rule falls apart in the face of a situation where it is obviously unjust. God's commands don't do that. Often in such relationships the root sin occurred long before things catch the attention of the church as they scramble to stop a marriage, which may or may not be sinful in itself, and may even be done out of a repentant heart to set past wrongs right.
@@DeanaJacksonFrazier “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”
1 John 1:9 NIV
Honest question: How should we reconcile 1 Cor. 7:12-16 with the passages John read?
Hello. I believe you mean 1 Corinthians 7:12, so I will address that. Quite simply, those instructions are for individuals who are married and then come to faith, and what to do with that after certain difficulties arise. It is not referring to believers who want to marry an unbeliever in the hopes they will convert them. Paul says in verse 16, "For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?" The answer being that you don't, and you should not blatantly disobey God while trying to validate it in this manner. Hope this helps.
@@limpingllama57 Thank you for the correction and attempt at clarification! I was honestly stumped when it came to harmonizing those verses with the rest of Scripture that clearly forbids us from engaging in fellowship with an unbeliever without the intention of sharing the Gospel with them; let alone marry them. I knew their had to be an explanation for it I just wasn’t seeing.
Let's remember Hosea. That is how we need to be.
You are welcome God bless you Beloved, I don't know you. in person but God knows you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you,I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them,in prayers,i saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evil mirror, and with motive to destroy. But as I speak to you now her time is up, Render hand of favour with Anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (BANABAS MOTHERLESS FOUNDATION) in kebbi state Nigeria before 2DAYS with faith, as I Rise my hands towards heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will receive double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. Ask for their acct details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on +2348079861301) tell him I sent an you. For it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit saith the lord (zechariah 4:6). You shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you .......
That's a special case. Not a pattern we are encouraged to follow
@@MrMister441 your right!
1 Timothy 4:10 - The New International Version (NIV)
10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
But what about parents who have children who turn away from their Christian upbringing, or a sibling who no longer wants anything to do with God... is the love they have for Christ in question simply because they continue to love and maintain a relationship with their unbelieving child, or siblng?? What is the difference between that and a spouse?
what is this music in video "Ambush Satan with Song - John Piper" ? Thanks
@@benrankin3193 Thanks!
Well, if the church is a cult, & it doesn't approve of the marriage, then it does what a cult typically would do:
Disrupt the lives of the married couple.
If its not a cult, then it respects the married couple & does the right thing by *STAYING OUT OF THEIR MARRIAGE*
I mean according to this guy, if you marry an unbeliever you’re forsaking God. And so what if the Church Excommunicates you, you are still bound with the person you marry, so you ask the elders to bless your repentance for?
It’s a good thing these elders can’t dangle your salvation in front of you only membership, which is only paper.
Another congregation will take you in.
Then why does Paul say "For the unbelieving husband is made holy through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy through her husband. Otherwise, your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy."?
1 Corinthians 7:14 NRSV
Does this verse not make it okay to marry an unbeliever? Am I just misunderstanding what Paul was saying?
Unfortunately, this podcast didn’t go into these biblical details and only spot picked one verse so I had to do some digging.
The verse Piper picked doesn’t address marriage, its actually about RE-marriage. I believe every word in the Bible matters and that was not emphasized in this podcast.
So then i thought The verses you just quoted, certainly made me think that it was OK to marry a non-believer. And just as importantly, that it would be OK for your children.
However, I didn’t want to leave any stone unturned, so I started looking in the Bible to see if there were any other passages from the New Testament about marrying a non-believer. The Old Testament rules don’t apply in the sense that we are not under the law anymore. Rather, they are a guide for how the people of Israel should have lived back in that time (and have a few more purposes but not important for the purposes of this discussion).
And so... boom, we come to 2 corinthians 6:14-17. Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. There’s much more to these verses but this is a clear commandment from Paul.
So voila, the Bible is clear about not marrying an unbeliever, it’s just that this Bible podcast did not address the verse you selected and chose a verse focused on remarriage ha ha. But I get Piper’s intention. ONLY because I found 2 corinthians 6:14-17 though. So i think they were unintentionally sloppy on this podcast (most of their episodes are helpful though and I know Piper is tried and true so this is just an exception).
ALL THIS TO SAY, regarding your verse... hahah is that when read in context, that whole section is about marriage and singleness regarding Corinthians who were already married or not married yet. Thus, your verse can safely be determined that it is about people who are already married versus ones that want to marry an unbeliever.
May the Lord correct me if I have misspoken. Like Piper, i’m just trying my best to be helpful from a bible based standpoint. Lastly, I only wrote all this out because I legitimately had the same thought you did ha ha and I had to dig through all of that so I felt it was more rewarding if I shared what I just went through.
@@reginaldchesterfield8110 I agree with your conclusions and I appreciate your heart for searching out truth in God’s word. Just one question for you to think about: If God says not to consider a non-believer for re-marriage, wouldn’t the same prohibition also apply for a first marriage? Also, there is nothing in 2 Corinthians 6:14-17 that makes the passage apply specifically to marriage. It’s about deep or meaningful relationships (alliances) with unbelievers in general. Yes marriage is perhaps the most obvious example, but not the only one. My point: I don’t think pastor John was “sloppy” in using a verse about remarriage to teach that God forbids marriage to a non-believer in the first place. Just as you are not sloppy to use a verse that forbids alliances with non-believers, when the verse does not speak specifically about marriage. God bless you.
Paul was speaking to people who were already married and then came to faith in Jesus. He is telling a believer not to sinply divorce their spouse simply because they don't believe.
@@reginaldchesterfield8110 I appreciate you digging through the texts to find this. I ask God everyday to give me the wisdom to follow his laws in the most accurate way. May the Lord be with you all.
@@jesusislord9707 this is so true. We must remember that in Paul’s time, Christianity was still very new. Most people were born into Jewish or Pagan families, and many were married adults when they came to Christ. It isn’t the same for people who were born into the faith, and had the chance to make Christ a consideration in their choice of a spouse.
I asked God one day if he was real that he would send someone to tell me about him, He did! She invited me to church I would of stopped going but they asked me to help at Bible n schools no idea why I agreed but I did I started learning the Bible through the stories I was so drawn to the Lord then one day I was handed a Bible tract that night I read it and was born again my life changed so much, I was engaged and about to be married I had no idea I wasn’t to marry an unbeliever with very limited knowledge and such a new babe in Christ 😢 as I grew it got harder and harder it breaks my heart constantly right now he’s out drinking at a nightclub there’s seasons of such discouragement and the pain in my heart is almost unbearable at times sadly I’ll cast my cares upon the Lord but then I’ll see the storm soon after and sink again it’s so hard seeing your children not want Christ either please pray I’ll trust and not focus on my pain etc 😢
I currently have someone who did this. A few years ago a friend of mine married someone is not a Christian. We all warned him not only was it wrong but that there would be problems. Present day and she is cheating on him and they're doing counseling and its most likely heading for divorce....
A very common story, sadly.
Very normal circumstances nothing unusual or surprising
Unfortunately, cheating is happening in a lot Christian marriages as well. And this is very troubling.
@@NadiA-lt2hh exactly, even Christian marriages aren't perfect... sometimes two unbelieving spouses have a better relationship with each other than two Christians...
@@davida6146 You’re so right about that. I’ve seen tons of non-Christian marriages thrive (or what looks like thriving) and Christian marriages (where Christ should be the glue) plummet. Disturbing, but I’m not surprised these days. Just disappointed ☹️
Would you attend the wedding of a close Christian friend/relative if they're firm on marrying a non-Christian?
Any advice would be nice. I was a believer at the time, and I ended up dating this young lady who said that she was also a believer. However, I did have some dreams that kind of, which I believed, expressed that I should not marry her, but I was hurt because I discovered another young lady that I thought I was going to marry, got married to someone else, despite some red flags, I continued to pursue the current young lady I was dating. It was crazy because even Christian songs would come on the radio that appeared to warn me as well, but I consistently dated her, and we ended up having a child out of wedlock and I eventually married her. We were both miserable even to this day. We had big arguments, and she began drinking a lot. Getting intoxicated, being stressed, and saying that she couldn't take this anymore. She wants to leave. I also, can admit, during our early times of struggles when she was pregnant, she told me that she didn't want to be with me then as well, but I was persistent because of the child. I did make some mistakes during that time as well. I have had interactions with other women and didn't mention it until after we were married. No excuse, but I believe I did it because of the pain of having a child not being married and being rejected at the same time. I really think that God was trying to warn me of all of this, and I was disobedient and still did my own thing. I definitely will want to repent and get back on track with the will of God. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.
I feel like in practice this becomes: (1) date and marry the non-Christian, (2) everyone feels bad for a little while, (3) everyone's cool again and you got the marriage you wanted to get away with anyways. It's bad until you actually do it and then it's suddenly good.
I don't believe that a Christian marrying a non Christian is sinful. What is sinful is to have something that is more important to you than God, it could be your career, alcohol, a relationship, a hobby. 1 Corinthians 7 : 39 is an instruction to believing women only to marry someone who is a Christian because in those times, the man was the head of the family so if he was a Christian (Paul's gaoler) the whole household became Christians, but equally if he was a Pagan, the whole household becomes Pagan. There is no instruction from Paul saying a man should not marry a non believer because his faith could not be challenged my his wife in his role as head of the household. 1 Corinthian 7: 17 says that each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them. 1 Corinthians 7 : 14 says that the unbelieving husband has been sanctified by his wife and the unbelieving wife through her believing husband . I am married to a women who is not a Christian but she asks me to pray with her and for her, and she respects and wants me to put God first in how I make decisions. Perhaps this is what being sanctified through a believer means. I think that being disciplined by a Church over this is wrong. Only God can convict us of sin and too many Churches "target" members who have lifestyles that are visibly not right on message while ignoring the hidden sin.
1 Corinthians 7:39 doesn’t necessarily mean only marry another Christian. I have heard people say in the Lord modifies the verb marry, instead of the person she was to marry.
Can someone help me? Now that I have listened the this msg
(I have yet confessed to the girl that I like even though I know she likes me)
After listening to this msg, I am very temped to just go ahead and confess, get together then afterwards repent.
Which means I am willfully sinning. What should I do?
It's been a year. How are things on your side concerning this matter?
Lord😔 I pray this stops cause it really confuses singles who are trusting God for Godly spouses.
Do they now go out and date whoever they please knowing that they will be forgiven? I have had to leave someone I deeply cared about because he wasn’t a believer and I know it was the right thing to do, however I went through the comments and it’s becoming very common in the Christian community.
Im saying this with love, do not marry someone who’s soul still belongs to the kingdom of darkness.
You are not called to convert people in romantic relationships, that is how you comprise your morals by falling into sexual sin with someone who has no commitment to Jesus. This is not how we were called to evangelise😞
I put the person I married above Christ. I have been in season searching for answers when I should have sought them out before getting married. I want to serve him and repent of my sin. But I don’t know where to begin.
Whoa its that serious??? I didn't know God took it that seriously
I understand what the apostle is trying to convey with not divorcing your unsaved spouse, but I believe divorcing is something that should happen when it is safe to do so. The marriage should be seen as a mistake. Certainly do not have children if this can be avoided. From a spiritual perspective , Paul also talks about being unequally yoked with the unbeliever. Spiritually this will become a fight for your soul. The enemy will now use that individual to strip away at your faith. The fact that your spiritual eyes had not seen the danger in the first place, means that your faith is not on solid ground. Yes, divorce Satan's agent in your life. It is unlikely that he/she will turn to Christ , though it was the light that drew them, that same light is what they seek to blow out. The marriage is doomed as they will be a thorn in your side. The only way it will work is if you let the devil win, by letting the unsaved spouse have his way. Divorce them as soon as you are able and run for your life !!!
Been in this situation 10 years ago and only to realise that the reason why I failed to follow the biblical teachings of marrying someone? because
I'm just a professing carnal Christian.
Powerful.
How does one repent if this kind of sin is commited? 😔
Reading scripture I never got the impression that marrying an unbeliever was a sin. Just a really ill advised and bad idea that probably wouldn’t end well. An extremely high-risk proposition that absolutely WILL have more problems down the line.
@@ReformedSooner24 correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Bible say the children would be santicfied along with the unbelieving spouse, on behalf of the believing spouse? How does that work?
Yeah the excommunication deal, if you don’t submit too the elders,is let them do that.
It’s almost that you have to ask the church for permission in regards to who you marry.
It isn’t the damn church’s place to react. They need to mind their own business.
Please where did the bible say the church excommunication?, what verse in the bible please ?
Matthew 18:17 and 1 Corinthians 5:13 are some about it.
A person can make a good a case for allowing them to remain, as they could for removing them. Kinda of like the rapture. Everyone has an opinion, but none of those opinions are able to assemble the scriptures on top of one another without one rejecting the other. You got the same thing here. Any hard and fast rule is usually wrong, and does more harm than good.
Kinda of like should I give this guy some money who's begging for it on the street. I know good and well he's going to buy alcohol with it. But is that my job to determine whether or not the Spirit that moved in me was right or not? It's not my job to determine what he does with the money, it's my job to move based on the Spirit.
I think in some situations it could be as it is in this video. But this is not a one size fit's all problem. It's just not.
Amén
Could you provide some examples of scripture that would contradict what Pastor John advised?
@@LightDragon777
Romans 7:15
"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I."
I need "scriptures" I only need one. And so should you, and so should the pastor. All though there are multiple scriptures that speaks to how over and over again despite knowing what's right we do wrong.
There are more than one stories from the largest hardest hitters in scripture Moses and Noah and David who where all murders and lying sinners. You know those stories right? Sleeping with your girls, and DRUNK to! Killing your best friend to cover up your affair! King David was one of the worst, and the best example on how we don't do what we should do. EVER!
Romans 3:12
"They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
No one does what is right, not even one!
............................................
The pastor gave the right biblical response. And that's all did.
And also....
Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound"
And that offense abounds everyday in your life and mine. All of us that claim the name of Christ step outside and sin everyday! We do it without thinking, or with thinking but we do it. A thought can enter the mind and not even come from us but having now thought it we are guilty of it.
You could pick apart anyone life who believes in Jesus and say , " see look there! They don't love Christ ". That would be easy to do to anyone!
@@trustenbaker8766 Maybe it would help to go back and watch the video again, I think you might have misunderstood a bit what was being said.
I don't think Pastor Piper's intention was to say that all Christians should be examined for any sin and then cast out of the church when they commit it. You're correct in quoting the scriptures to show that we are all sinners and that sin deserves grace. But it also deserves repentance and discipline (as we see in Matthew 18:15-17 and 1 Corinthians 5:1-5).
Let's start with the example you brought up of David. He sinned, but when Nathan confronted him with his sin, he repented and was given grace. That being said, even after, God still disciplined him, through the death of the child.
But let's compare it to the example that was given to Pastor Piper. From what we've heard, the person in this example knowingly and willfully disobeyed both God's Word and his spiritual shepherds, and has yet to show sorrow or repentance for his sins. From what I understood, Pastor Piper was encouraging the church elders to first confront this man with his sin, and-if he failed to repent-only then excommunicating him. So the problem here wasn't that he sinned (as you said, we all do that), the problem was because it is willful unrepentant sin.
But yeah, I think it's important to remember that Paul, the same one who wrote the passage you quoted in Romans, also wrote the admonition to excommunicate in Corinthians. The first isn't meant to be an excuse of sin, but express sorrow and repentance over one's own sinfulness. The latter (along with the passage from Matthew) are meant to show how Christians should handle unrepentant sin within the Church. And again, as Pastor Piper pointed out, the ultimate aim is not to punish or judge, but in hopes that the person might recognize their sinfulness and repent.
@@LightDragon777
Well no I didn’t watch the whole video again. I’ll do that later
The idea of miscommunication is not biblical.
How about marrying a lukewarm /carnal Christian? Please I need answers
It's similar. A "lukewarm or carnal Christian" may not be a Christian at all. Only God knows for sure. But choosing to live in unrepentant sin qualifies them for being excommunicated from the church themselves. And if they are excommunicated from the church for their lack of repentance over their sins, the church is to treat them as an unbeleiver. That is to say, they are to love them. Serve them. Care for them. And preach the gospel to them. But they shouldn't marry them in that state.
@@andrewsharp4950 thank you! God bless
@@andrewsharp4950 Is the word Church even in the Bible... Or the Hebrew Greek text?
@@sandraking7085 The Greek word ekklesia, usually translated as 'church' in English translations, is found in the New Testament about 114 times. And in almost all of these examples the word refers either to the one worldwide universal church or to a local congregation of Christians.
You should only consider marrying someone who is a devout follower of Jesus, someone who is fighting hard to follow the Lord.
1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
Yes, but this doesn't mean that it's OK to marry an non-believer. Paul is saying that if someone becomes a Christian who is already married to a non-believer, all is not lost. But it is still wrong to marry an unbeliever, as Paul himself makes clear in the same chapter in v. 39.
@@maxaplin4204 is it a sin to marry a non-believer?
@@jomalielhernandez2817 In almost all circumstances, yes. Every Christian should give their all to follow Jesus with their whole life, and it should be clear that being closely bound to a non-believer is bound to stop a Christian giving their all to the Lord.
I do think there are maybe very rare exceptions, such as when in Islamic countries a teenage girl is threatened with death if she doesn't marry a Muslim. But at most, there would only be very rare exceptions.
Unfortunately, this podcast didn’t go into these biblical details and only spot picked one verse so I had to do some digging.
The verse Piper picked doesn’t address marriage, its actually about RE-marriage. I believe every word in the Bible matters and that was not emphasized in this podcast.
So then i thought The verses you just quoted, certainly made me think that it was OK to marry a non-believer. And just as importantly, that it would be OK for your children.
However, I didn’t want to leave any stone unturned, so I started looking in the Bible to see if there were any other passages from the New Testament about marrying a non-believer. The Old Testament rules don’t apply in the sense that we are not under the law anymore. Rather, they are a guide for how the people of Israel should have lived back in that time (and have a few more purposes but not important for the purposes of this discussion).
And so... boom, we come to 2 corinthians 6:14-17. Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. There’s much more to these verses but this is a clear commandment from Paul.
So voila, the Bible is clear about not marrying an unbeliever, it’s just that this Bible podcast did not address the verse you selected and chose a verse focused on remarriage ha ha. But I get Piper’s intention. ONLY because I found 2 corinthians 6:14-17 though. So i think they were unintentionally sloppy on this podcast (most of their episodes are helpful though and I know Piper is tried and true so this is just an exception).
ALL THIS TO SAY, regarding your verse... hahah is that when read in context, that whole section is about marriage and singleness regarding Corinthians who were already married or not married yet. Thus, your verse can safely be determined that it is about people who are already married versus ones that want to marry an unbeliever.
May the Lord correct me if I have misspoken. Like Piper, i’m just trying my best to be helpful from a bible based standpoint. Lastly, I only wrote all this out because I legitimately had the same thought you did ha ha and I had to dig through all of that so I felt it was more rewarding if I shared what I just went through.
I think most of us have realized one way a "professing believer" can abuse his chance to repent by pretending to repent
You're right. But it's also a responsibility of the church to do what they can, within reason, to determine if the repentance is likely to be genuine.
@@andrewsharp4950 Yes, well put. There will usually be some degree of uncertainty, but the church leadership need to do their best.
But if you excommunicate a Christian who marries a believer because they're living in sin, then shouldn't you also excommunicate every Christian who's living in sin? The alcoholics, people who have sex outside of marriage, liars, embezzlers, etc?
1 Corinthians 7:13-14 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
Yes, in some sense the unbelieving husband or wife is sanctified by the believer. But of course this doesn't mean that it is OK to marry an unbeliever. Paul himself speaks against this in v. 39 of the same chapter.
A lot of people have opinions but heres some bible facts not discussed in this podcast:
Unfortunately, this podcast didn’t go into these biblical details and only spot picked one verse so I had to do some digging.
The verse Piper picked doesn’t address marriage, its actually about RE-marriage. I believe every word in the Bible matters and that was not emphasized in this podcast.
So then i thought The verses you just quoted, certainly made me think that it was OK to marry a non-believer. And just as importantly, that it would be OK for your children.
However, I didn’t want to leave any stone unturned, so I started looking in the Bible to see if there were any other passages from the New Testament about marrying a non-believer. The Old Testament rules don’t apply in the sense that we are not under the law anymore. Rather, they are a guide for how the people of Israel should have lived back in that time (and have a few more purposes but not important for the purposes of this discussion).
And so... boom, we come to 2 corinthians 6:14-17. Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. There’s much more to these verses but this is a clear commandment from Paul.
So voila, the Bible is clear about not marrying an unbeliever, it’s just that this Bible podcast did not address the verse you selected and chose a verse focused on remarriage ha ha. But I get Piper’s intention. ONLY because I found 2 corinthians 6:14-17 though. So i think they were unintentionally sloppy on this podcast (most of their episodes are helpful though and I know Piper is tried and true so this is just an exception).
ALL THIS TO SAY, regarding your verse... hahah is that when read in context, that whole section is about marriage and singleness regarding Corinthians who were already married or not married yet. Thus, your verse can safely be determined that it is about people who are already married versus ones that want to marry an unbeliever.
May the Lord correct me if I have misspoken. Like Piper, i’m just trying my best to be helpful from a bible based standpoint. Lastly, I only wrote all this out because I legitimately had the same thought you did ha ha and I had to dig through all of that so I felt it was more rewarding if I shared what I just went through.
This is for those who married an unbeliever before they became a Christian.
Do people from other denominations count as unbelievers?
What about 1 Corinthians chapter 7 verse 12 - 14?
Your right your absolutely right. But the thing is, he's saying if you weren't married to them but you dated and married them knowing that they didn't believe in Jesus. The passage that your talking about (And I could be wrong), but bare with me. Can be talking about if your already married to them and then after marriage you put your faith in Jesus but your husband or your wife didn't.
@@neffetitiedwards1530 Ah yes I see, that makes perfect sense. Coming to an understanding while in the marriage.
And then when speaking of the husband or wife changing their unbelieving spouses mind about the Faith maybe verse 16 could encourage the couple but idk.
Thanks for your response!
@@BCDC123 I believe you’re right in the case of verse 16 “For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
I heard the story on K-love, and this woman was married to a man that she loved deeply, for 37 years, he was an atheist, and slowly,
as she would listen to k love he would shut it off, or change the channel and then he would listen to it. And then he started singing with her! And now he is saved!! Haha praise God! All glory goes to Him forever and ever. :’ )
Not saying husbands or wives can save in verse 16 ( just to clarify) only God has the power to save
@@elizaleski9618 Right, seed sowing is all we can do and God makes the increase. Thanks for sharing about K-love! That’s great!
It’s impossible to marry( become one with Christ) to an unbeliever.
As a Christian born and raised, I'm sorry but I find this very intolerant. There are many people who are non-Christians that are perfectly good people. Of course if your girlfriend/Fiancee makes it a point to make fun of your faith a good Christian would willingly (and likely happily) disengage from that relationship. I've stumbled many times in my life and I've always appreciated my family and friends who are Christians always reaching out to me to keep the faith. Matter of fact, I think I'll go tell them how much I appreciate them later
But what about being unequally yoked?
You cant be born a Christian.
Pastor Piper has adviced from his deep love of Christ, his enjoyment of the Gospel and his adherence to the word of God is worthy of wholesome praise. However, I wouldn't advice anyone to do as he says. I'm not as learned as him, and I'm in no closeness to God, nowhere near as Pastor Piper, that's for sure. But as a faith we're doing it wrong if we just apply the word without loving examination.
If her relationship with him was motivated by lust or any other worldly emotion at the helm it would be wise to adhere to the holy word as it is. But we must not make the mistake that the Pharisees made, of putting the law above love. If her relationship with him was motivated by wholesome love, then it was given by God. Only God puts that kind of love in a person's heart. Jesus, the perfect man, put his love for us above the law. Pastor Piper doesn't know God's plan for that couple, or if through that man's love for that believer woman, he'll come to Christ. We don't know, and we don't care to know either.
Pastor Piper could have asked about the nature of the relationship, about the fruits of that relationship for both people involved. He didn't care about it, he stopped at the law and forgot about the love. As followers of Christ we must prioritize Godly love above strick adherance to a single interpretation of the holy word, because God acts through misterious means, else we run the risk of becoming like the pharisees instead.
remove the believer from the church? does the Lord remove a believer from the book of life if marry to an unbeliever?
No, but it's a good indication the person isn't a believer.
Im no pastor and I know the answer to this question. you love the unbeliever. you accept and pour out the love and grace that God gives us onto them and make them feel welcomed.
That is different than marrying them, and if you truly love the unbeliever you will want them to repent, and be saved. Imagine how hard it would be to love and live with a person that you know ultimately will spend eternity in Hell, imagine what might happen to any children that come from such a marriage.
This is so dangerous. If you can't be faithful to God while single, you won't be able with an unbelieving spouse. They will start to pull you away from Christ and ultimately God will fight against your marriage.
If you love another more than you love Christ, you’re not worthy of Christ. Whether you love a believer or a non-believer more than you love Christ, thats unworthy. I don’t know why Pastor John only applies that to the unbeliever.
I have found many faith professing christians have anger and unforgiveness in their hearts, as well as an extra helping of knowledge of good and evil, but knowledge cannot save us, it only helps us fall. We are saved by the blood of Christ bathing us in repentance and forgiveness. “Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us”
To that end, I would rather court a humble non-believer than an intellectual know-it-all believer. And I shall not marry anyone who does not forgive others and especially her mother and father. And doing so I believe she would come back to a child-like faith like Christ calls us to
I'm sure John Piper would also agree that it's unworthy to love a believer more than Christ, but that wasn't relevant for the topic in this video.
You should only court a devout Christian. If someone refuses to forgive, that is not a good sign that they are a genuine believer.
@@maxaplin4204 I see that there are a lot of Christians in name but not in action. Is it possible to be a Christian in action but not in name? Would it be wrong to court such a person? Thanks for your reply
@@Grizzly6XL You can't be a Christian in action unless you are acting through a belief in Christ (hence the title, Christian). I know what you mean, though. Some people whom I have met (and whom I desperately pray would know Jesus) seem to have "better" actions than some Christians I know... 🙄
@@Grizzly6XL You are right that there are a lot of Christians in name but not in action.
I don't think that the opposite would happen - i.e., Christians in action but not in name, because confessing Christ as Lord is such an important part of the Christian life.
For, example, in Matt 10:32-33 Jesus teaches:
'Therefore, everyone who will acknowledge me before others, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before others, I will also deny him before my Father in heaven.' (CSB)
If someone doesn't openly confess that Jesus is Lord, I believe it would be wrong to court them.
The church keeps its mouth shut and mind there own business its not a sin to marry an unbeleiver,it might be a bad idea but its not a sin.
It is and can lead to the spiritual death of the believer.
A marriage covenant not approved of God is not a valid holy covenant. Staying in such a covenant is more of a sin as any person that remains in an occultic covenant. God does not honor a marraige becauase it is "legal" by the court system. It is only what "God" has joined together that should not be put asunder. If it is the devil that joins them together, it should be put asunder.
If in a culture that allows a man to marry two sisters, a man marries two sisters legally, does not make it a righteous marraige when the Bible commands not to marry two sisters?
I don't agree that a marraige to an unbeliever should be acceptable to the church just because "they have married". It is just remaining is sin.
It is like stealing and repenting, but retaining the loot.
Yes, shunning sinful church members is a big wittnessing tool for Christ....not.
This is pure insanity💀
Why is ostracism the answer? Jesus never ostracized others; He did teach "distancing" though ("...let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."), but that's different from ostracism.
I'm not a pastor, but I would have answered it differently. I would have said two verses right away.
Romans 8:28 (KJV) "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." This means that because of the believing spouse's love for God, things will work together for that spouse's good.
and
1 Corinthians 7:14 (KJV) "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."
W.E. Vine's commentary on the previous verse is this: "the unbelieving husband or wife is relatively set apart through his or her believing partner, and abiding in the natural union instead of breaking it by leaving, receives a spiritual influence holding the possibility of actual conversion", which, if you'll think about it, can actually be congruent with Romans 8:28
I think that there is a lot wrong with that statement. For starters, ostracism is the answer because it is Biblical. Even in the example you gave, you agree with this. Jesus said to treat them as heathens or tax collectors, these people could not be a part of the church because they were unrepentant, likewise with modern-day unrepentant souls, they are to be excluded (ostracized) from the church, seen as an unbeliever in need of evangelism instead of a brother, because that is what they've shown themselves to be.
Second, Romans 8:28 is completely irrelevant here. The Bible commands that believers are not to marry unbelievers. If the believer truly loved God, then they would obey his word and not commit a blatant sin. You cannot say "I am going to scam somebody for all they're worth, but because I love God then it will all work out for good for both of us." That is ludacris, if you love God, you wouldn't disobey Him by scamming. If you disobey Him, you cannot be certain He will bless it, in fact, you very well may be punished by Him, and you should be by the church as well because your soul is in danger.
And finally, 1 Corinthians 7:14 is also irrelevant here. These instructions are for individuals who are married and then saved, and therefore has nothing to do with this. Paul later says, "how do you know if you will save your spouse?" The answer is that you don't, and it is a foolish, dangerous game to play thinking that you can blatantly disobey God and yet expect yourself to then reflect Christ accurately to your spouse in a manner that will edify them. More likely than not, you will be the one to cave because you have already shown your willingness to go against your faith for the sake of the relationship, and you will do it again, meaning your soul is in jeopardy. Because your soul is in jeopardy, the church must then act to attempt to preserve you and bring you back to your senses by disciplining you.
A couple of points:
First, ostracism has 2 goals: (1) to bring the sinner to repentance; (2) to act as a deterrent so that others in the church don't sin in the same way.
As Paul says in 1 Cor 5:6:
'Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little leaven leavens the whole batch of dough?'
If sin is tolerated in a church, it can easily infect others. And in almost all circumstances it is a grave sin for a Christian to marry a non-believer.
Second, the context of 1 Cor 7:14 is very different from the topic in this video. This video is about people who are already Christians marrying non-believers. 1 Cor 7:14 is about people who are already married to non-believers when they become Christians.
In this verse Paul is saying that if someone becomes a Christian when already married to a non-believer, it is not a disaster. God is still in control. But there is no doubt that Paul would not want a Christian to get into that situation if they could avoid it.
@@maxaplin4204
Can you please point to any written testimony where by ostracism, a sinner has repented? Preferably one from the Bible please?
"This video is about people who are already Christians marrying non-believers. 1 Cor 7:14 is about people who are already married to non-believers when they become Christians."
Isn't that what the questioner meant from 0:28 to 0:35? To quote: "The believer was forewarned and went ahead with the union anyway; now the marriage has been formalized". So it does apply here because the marriage has already happened between a believer and a non-believer, based on the questioner's description.
@@Melech77 OK, a few points:
First, in 1 Cor 5 Paul criticises the Corinthians for not excommunicating/ostracising a man who is in grave sin. It is debated whether this man is referred to as repentant in 2 Cor 2:5-7. I'm afraid I don't have time to look into this in detail to see if I think these passages are referring to the same man.
However, the Bible clearly commands ostracism with a view to the sinner's repentance (1 Cor 5), so we can be confident that God wouldn't instruct this if it never works.
Second, in my earlier comment I distinguished between (1) people who are already Christians before marrying a non-believer and (2) people who are already married to a non-believer before becoming Christians. I said that this video is about (1) and not (2), whereas 1 Cor 7:12-14 is about (2).
But your quote from the questioner is also about (1)! 'The believer was forewarned and went ahead with the union anyway'. This clearly implies that this person is a believer before getting married, meaning that it is not like the situation of 1 Cor 7:12-14.
Third, it is true that both the situation discussed in this video and 1 Cor 7:12-14 have in common a believer married to a non-believer. But the issue in the video is about church discipline for a sin that has been recently committed. So for the purposes of church discipline, 1 Cor 7:12-14 isn't relevant.
Dude, you hit the exact point I’m thinking about. Piper is wrong out removing the guy’s membership, we are clearly taught that you should be confronted first and given a chance to repent. And then there are much more instructions, but only after all of those instructions do you ostracize them. Bible up!
Idk about others but I believe in all gods...
Then you aren't a Christian.
I don't understand why Piper always assumes that churches are functional as an organisation. Who said that elders from the church were involved? I'm not sure I've ever attended a church where I even knew who the elders were, much less heard of somebody receiving counsel from them in any sort of authoritative way. I bet this pastor simply had a few conversations with the person and nothing much came of it. That may be the limit of social ties in today's society. And surely the "response" is simply to love the person? Sooner or later this couple is going to discover they've put themselves in a hard place.
Most, if not all reformed churches work this way. You vote on elders, they make decisions along with the Pastor who is also an elder, a teaching elder. It is very concerning to be in a church and not know who, or have approved of the elders making church decisions.
@@ashleyparton-pelaez9886 I'm sure it varies widely but I often find there's a huge gap between the theology on paper and what actually happens procedurally, especially in the Reformed world. And from my vantage point, the social and cultural capital required to do what Piper describes is not insignificant. If we wanted to take this further, how did said person date and propose to the nonbeliever, presumably over a period of 12+ months, without getting anything from the church? The problem is so much deeper than what happened with regard to any church elders at the time of choosing to marry.
Wow you need a new church.
@@StarStrife100 yeah, I agree with Joyce here. When you exemplify a problem, you have to assume everything else is functional to make it as general as possible; otherwise you're just adding variables. A nonfunctioning church is a huge problem, but a separate problem nonetheless
@@StarStrife100 while others recommend you look for another church, I'll acknowledge that our world is woefully lacking in good, sound, biblical churches for many different reasons.
Piper DOES describe a situation that requires "massive cultural and social capital" but that's the kind of church Scripture calls us to. Sadly, there are many places that lack this kind of church. This is both the fault of the churches themselves and the people who attend them. Those strong in the faith must bear with the failings of the weak, but doing so wisely is very challenging indeed.
There's also simply a lack of good churches everywhere. Good, bible believing churches in the world isn't the norm, it's the exception.
Wow. Such arrogance and lack of compassion. How about repenting to this formal single adult in your church for idolizing marriage in the church so that singles feel inadequate or they are missing out. How about acknowledging the need of singles for intimacy and companionship in the body. I am an older single adult who has always desired marriage and felt like an outsider in many of the former churches I have been a member. I have had pastors that don’t even feel comfortable shaking my hand. If I had been dating at that time I would not even shared it.How about empathy.? Praying for the marriage and the salvation of the unbelieving spouse . Was it the best choice maybe not but it is not deserving of church discipline. This is what is wrong with complentarianism a nutshell .
While the church does need to repent of it's idolizing of marriage. And more willingly embrace singles, even celebrate their greater freedom to serve the Lord. That does not justify having no response of church discipline on some level for a professing believer and member who willingly and knowingly goes against both Scripture and the leading of their church body. Such rebellion is very serious, and it's ultimately against Christ. Anyone who rebels against Him, His Word and His Church is very possibly not a genuine believer, and needs to be shaken up by church discipline, with the hope that they would either repent from their sinful choice, or would realize they haven't truly made Christ their Lord, not just their loving Savior.
Christ doesn't complete us, He transforms us.
You are confusing a number of issues here. A few points, if I may:
First, it is not arrogant or lacking in compassion to discipline Christians when they fall into sin. This is the main point of 1 Cor 5. For a Christian to marry a non-believer is a grave sin and needs strong discipline.
Second, yes, marriage is very commonly idolised in the church. In 1 Cor 7:7 Paul teaches that, all other things being equal, singleness is to be preferred.
Third, complementarianism is a separate issue.
@@andrewsharp4950 Very well put.
This is a completely different issue though. I definitely understand your struggle, I'm glad I found a church that's not afraid of physical contact. Not sure how anything he said was arrogant.
If it is not a marriage from God, and it causes you to pull away from Christ, GOD WILL FIGHT AGAINST YOUR MARRIAGE. God will put it on your heart to leave or cause your unbelieving spouse to leave because your obedience. God hates divorce but He hates sending people to Hell more. This is where I disagree with Piper. God may in the future want this woman to divorce for the sake of her soul and she should divorce and stay unmarried for life.
My only problem with this message is... "the Banning Church membership? "
Really? Did God call you juror and judge now? I've been to churches that demand your membership after so many visits... where do y'all find even MEMBERSHIPS in a biblical reference? Turn your back on a sister/ BROTHER for a mistake... 🤔 Maybe, that widows mind and heart is messed up. But , you ain't been through it.. so how would you even know, huh?
Did you visit her like God commanded?🤔
Why not help her instead of kicking her while she's down??
Because your perfect... correct?..lol.
I am that widow and not a one if y'all bothered to help me..so put your self righteous condemning, law abiding, ungrateful, ( UN-GRACEFULL) ways where your hearts are...up your behind. Explain to Jesus one day how you were to busy condemning the widows fear grief and confusion to lend a helping hand. See how far that gets you. Remember, if you choose to NOT DEPEND on GRACE but keep ONE part of the law you must keep it ALL.. Shalom
A few points in reply, if I may:
First, excommunication from the church is a biblical practice that aims to bring the sinner to repentance and to deter others in the church from sinning.
So, for example, in 1 Cor 5:1-2 Paul tells the Corinthians:
'It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and the kind of sexual immorality that is not even tolerated among the Gentiles--a man is sleeping with his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Shouldn't you be filled with grief and remove from your congregation the one who did this?' (CSB)
Marrying a non-believer is also a grave sin that needs to be similarly disciplined.
You complain about Christians being judge and juror. But in the same chapter, in verses 12-13, Paul explicitly tells his readers to judge in this way:
'For what business is it of mine to judge outsiders? Don't you judge those who are inside? God judges outsiders. Remove the evil person from among you.' (CSB)
Second, I am very sorry to hear of your bereavement. But suffering is never an excuse for disobeying biblical principles.
Being single is hard. I know, because I have been single for all of my 51 years. But God is here to help me, and I would never consider marrying a non-believer.
Third, I don't know the details of your experience of being badly treated and not helped by others. I am sorry to hear about it. But that is really a different issue.
Yes, God did put His church in authority over those within it. 1 Corinthians 11-13 "But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." Paul tells us to not even eat with an unrepentant person. He also tells us to remove them from our midst. How else are we supposed to take that? You are right, we are not perfect, but a truly saved person, when confronted about their sin will repent, those who hard-heartedly refuse to accept they sinned are likely not saved and, in an attempt to preserve the church from sin and to encourage the repentance of the unrepentant one, they need to discipline them.
@@maxaplin4204 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
And please don't try to compare your being single 51 years to a couple who was married 34 years.
God allows us to go through hardships to comfort others as they through it.
Obviously you can't conceive it, so please don't say nothing at all...
@@sandraking7085 A few points:
First, yes, there is a wrong kind of judging that Jesus speaks against in Matthew 7. But Paul also instructs Christians to judge in 1 Cor 5:12-13. So there is a positive kind of judging and negative kind. You need to accept what Paul says in these verses and not blame those of us who don't brush them aside.
Second, I have read a number of your comments on this video, and it is very ironic that your spirit seems to be very judgmental. You seem to be very bitter for some reason and to be quick to fire out accusations at people.
For example, you say that I shouldn't compare myself being single for 51 years with you being married for 34 years. But you must know that you hadn't told me how long you were married. And I expressed sympathy with your bereavement, but you were nasty to me in return. What's going on? It is really quite remarkable that you criticise people for being judgmental, yet it is some time since I interacted with anyone as judgmental as you!
@@maxaplin4204 I'm aware that we are to judge the sin and not sinner. I watched your video and I was taken aback by the judgment you told the church to employ on others marital mistakes sir.....So for you to imply I'm judgmental is ironic to say the least. However, I would like to add I grew up in a Church that had the same beliefs as yours.
When a greasy biker stumbled in one day..nobody offered to shake his hand. Instead they stared at him until he left. I ask you, is that what Jesus would have Christians do? Our new pastor was young, and wore shorts one day. They accused' him of being demon possesed until he left the church. My cousin got pregnant out of wedlock ( mistakes happen to Christian's too, right?..) and they were told unless they both stood in front of the church and confessed their sins , they were no longer allowed to be members. Both left indefinitely. The church is not their saviour..its a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
It's called mercy.. it's called Grace. If the Lord practices it, aren't we called to be like him as well?
My point.
Law abiding Christians can be the worst "hypocrites" there are and cause MANY to turn from salvation which is meant to be
simple and free for all.
It's a gift. Not earned through the church.
And thank God, or we'd all be in trouble!
Have a blessed evening brother.
Shalom
Nice dose of religious bar shit crazy...
As a believer and lover of Jesus Christ, committed to him and his leading, I'd point to the Gospel of Grace that HE came to give and what he died for. No where in the bible did Jesus turn ANYONE away even the worst sinner, and WE are CALLED to be JUST LIKE HIM as believers. Putting a dividing line between me as a believer and an unbeliever as if I'm supposed to reject them and NOT LOVE THEM AND/OR SHOW THEM GRACE LIKE JESUS MODELED FOR ME is just wrong (whether its for marriage or not). If anyone who is a believer decides to LOVE an unbeliever, and decides to marry them, what is it to you? (as Jesus said in John 21:22) That's not YOUR choice, that's the other person's choice and that decision is between that person and Jesus NOT anyone else. He allows us free will for a reason and that includes believers not just unbelievers. Whatever happens (good or bad) in that relationship (between a believer and unbeliever) let that be between them and Jesus within the confines of the believers personal, intimate relationship with Jesus. Bottom line, hate the sin not the sinner. That's what HE modeled for us when he was here on earth. (By the way, no, I'm not married nor dating an unbeliever in case you are wondering about the motivation behind my point of view).
Please don't call wanting to get down with someone "love." People these days dangerously twist the meaning of the word love to mean sex and that's what your doing. A Christian and a non Christian are incompatible. Plus, what about the part about not being unequally yoked? I have every right to question a person who thinks they can do things like that. You can love unbelievers without marrying them. What a dangerous message you send.
@@dog_curry i never said anything about "getting down with someone is love." I never said that. You interpreted what I said about love as "sex outside of marriage" and I never said that YOU interpreted that. The gospel message of Grace to love an unbeliever is NOT dangerous and I never called it "sex." Jesus came to LOVE SINNERS and FORGIVE and SAVE SINNERS. That's basically my point. Question whatever you want but what other people choose to do or not do is basically not your concern. It's God's concern. Live YOUR life and follow Jesus and extend love and grace to others; again love the sinner not the sin. That was my message nothing else.
@@josiewelsy1 Your advice is dangerous and can actually lead to the spiritual death of the believer. If a person cannot remain faithful to God as a single person, they will have even more difficulty with an unbelieving spouse. If someone is unsaved, they will eventually lead you into sin. Bad company corrupts good morals. Even moreso for a spouse! Not only that, you can ruin your testimony for your spouse and they may never be saved because you were not a consistent godly influence.
@@DeanaJacksonFrazier ..and likewise, if someone is saved they can also eventually lead you into salvation. It works both ways (1 Corinthians 7:14). with all due respect, you don't have to like nor accept my comment. Stay safe with just the believers, do as you wish so long as you do it with love and grace like Jesus. Because he came to love everyone! And his one and only primary command is to *love* one another (John 13:34-35). Especially the unbeliever whom he died for (Romans 5:8).
@@josiewelsy1 At one point, I thought like you. It ended up being a nightmare. The reality is that more often than not, an unbeliever corrupts a believer.
John Piper is absolutely right that Christians shouldn't marry non-Christians.
However, I do think that there are probably extremely rare exceptions to this. The sort of thing I have in mind is something like the following:
In a deeply Islamic country a teenage girl comes to Christ. Her Muslim father tells her that she must marry a certain young Muslim man in an arranged marriage. She says that she won't because she is a Christian. Her father tells her that he will kill her if she doesn't, and she knows he is serious. (This does happen. It is what is known as an honour killing.) She decides to go ahead with the marriage.
I think in situations like this it is probably God's will for a Christian to marry a non-believer. But this would obviously be extremely rare.
Isn't that what following Christ is about? You should love God more than you love anything in this world, including your own life! Just my two cents.
@@mybigfatexpatlife6865 We should certainly love God more than anything, including our own lives. I wasn't for a moment suggesting that we should compromise on that.
But I would want to make a couple of points.
First, I think it might sometimes be most loving towards God for a girl in the situation I mentioned to marry a non-believer. One main reason why marrying a non-believer is usually wrong is because it will massively hinder what that Christian can achieve for God. But I think sometimes a girl in this situation might be able to achieve more for God by remaining alive in a bad marriage and continuing to do some sort of Christian work on earth than by dying.
Second, the Bible itself leads us to believe that exceptional situations sometimes arise where something that would normally be sinful is not now sinful.
A good example is the midwives in Exod 1:15-21. In this passage, the midwives lie to Pharaoh in order to stop babies being murdered. And God blesses the midwives.
In normal circumstances lying is wrong. But in this example, and in other biblical examples too, lying is condoned by God because of the dire situation. (I am not saying that lying is acceptable in every dire situation. For example, we must never deny that we are Christians, even if it costs us our lives.)
@@maxaplin4204 the midwives were lying to prevent another sin. Marrying a Muslim does not prevent sin. Why is life so precious that we have to compromise our beliefs in order to continue with it? I am a privileged person living in a first world country with an abundance of resources at my disposal, and freedom to do so many things; I have no idea what it's like to be in that situation. However, if I were in that situation, I hope I choose death.
@@dog_curry I applaud the way that you are looking to obey God above all else.
However, I would want to make a few points in reply:
First, marrying a Muslim in the example I gave would in fact prevent another sin - the sin of murder. It would stop the father of the girl murdering her.
Second, we should never compromise on what we believe is the will of God. Nor should we compromise on our beliefs. But I would say that our beliefs should sometimes allow for rare exceptions to principles. So if we believe that it might be the will of God occasionally for a believer to marry a non-believer, we wouldn't be compromising on our beliefs.
Third, I think it is possible you might be right that it is never the will of God for a believer to marry a non-believer in any circumstances. But I doubt it. I can easily see God wanting some girls in the above situation to stay alive so that they can do Christian work for him.
@@maxaplin4204 That does make sense. It looks like God does allow sinning to prevent another sin. But then another question arises- why aren't we killing everyone to prevent them from sinning? I would like to know your thoughts on that.
Mind your own business that’s how you should respond
That’s not the biblical response
If that's your response miu suk then it just highlights your immaturity
@@HearGodsWord speaking such a way to another person, shows a lack of patient love.
MIU SIK, our modern culture (especially American) encourages independence, freedom, liberty. In honor of those values we should let others do whatever they want.
But those values are counter to those of God's Word. We are called to be servants of Christ, which can often look like giving up our freedom, submitting to authorities in humility, and serving God more than our own desires.
If we truly have Christ as our Lord, we must obey him. He calls us to love His Church, and protect her, by warning the members against unrepentant sin. Living in such sin likely indicates a lack of genuine saving faith. And a lack of saving faith is very serious. We are all condemned to eternal damnation without it.
@@andrewsharp4950 it really doesn't.