This is ESSENTIAL to be a GOOD Offlaner | Whose Fault Is It Anyways? #18
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Is your team holding you back from climbing the ladder? Let's find out! This time we take a look at an offlaner who doesn't know how to play on his own when the support leaves. We break down 4 preventable deaths that would make his lane much better.
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And if you're interested in being in a future episode, leave a comment with:
1) Match ID (within the last week)
2) Who you are playing
3) Explain why you think you're right and the team is wrong
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One more thing: as an offlaner you can always aggro the creeps by a-clicking the enemy portrait that is showing on the map currently. This way you can always aggro creepwaves by not even moving the cam. Useful for other lanes too!
Wow I never knew this thanks lol 🤝🤣
@@areyousrsrightneowbro It's a pretty unknown thing. You cannot use the spells this way though.
@@Goboxel wait really? I remember trying it once and it didn't work so I never tried again. Maybe it tried on a hero that wasn't showing on the map.
I'll have to try this in a real game! It doesn't seem to work in a test lobby for me though :(
@@Goboxel you can use spells on your team mates this way when its hard to click on them
i think in this bracket what important is to manage little money you have and have clear mind to think don't focus on blame
Do more offlane videos
1) Match ID: 7241706015
2) Legion Commander - Offlane | Ancient 3
3) This game was painful, i made a mistake by purchasing Mails vs Dagger, should have gone dagger and then Mails, my lane was ok, we won it, but idk why i went roaming the map after i got t1 i should have stood there so i could farm my Blink dagger and kick MK harder from the lane, mid game was NOT easy, OD got fat, and Pugna+Undy were flaming Sniper real hard for his 100% true lack of brain and big mouth, Slark was definetly a bad player no doubt, but i cant get into their minds so i chilled and tried to play with that in mind, OD got Linken really fast but i decided to trust team to pop his BKB so i could get AC to counter MK desolator so my team wouldnt get destroyed, game stucked around min 35, i'm sure we lost because we lacked dmg (I had a lot, but is was physical, vs such high armors+tide E.... it is not so effective, MKB for Slark+Sniper would have been perfect and game winning, i think maybe my Aghanim was a bad purchase, i think refresher was better (or maybe it was ok, and i needed something else....) our team was bad, game felt hard so it was probably our picks which were not good
Late game was organized but the difference was too big, I am good.... but i have limits in what i can do, sometimes i dont catch all the information on screen, and it was what happen.... maaaaaaaaaaaybe some crazy blinks :D :D i think those bets were worth the risk (late game i mean min 35+). In the end we lost, and i went to grab a coffee and calm myself from this depression
Pls ZQuixotix pick me
Match ID: 7215752756
Hero i play: AA
Hero messed up: Facless Void
We lost all lanes more or less, but they did have superior lane matchups. Void fell onto jungle and refused to take creeps under tower and help defend tower. Even when the offlaner came to take his place he did not go to the offlane, crwating 0 preasure, vs a lineup that cant really do much to him untill VERY late timings (SF, TA, Timber, Clinks, Treant).
After that he went midas, malestorm, shadowblade before going manta, and did not purchase a single survivability item, even after getting killed solo over and over. Also refused joining team and getting picked off repeatedly.
Just felt like a BKB would have gone a long way here, and maybe a MoM instead of malestorm.
On my side a halberd could have been nice I guess, but was trying to keep everyone alive while doing most od the warding😅
as a mirana 4 spammer .. 4 main. THANK YOU SO MUCH. I have so many complaints for leaving when the off is safe under tower.
I barely play Dota 2. I’m terrible, absolutely horrible, but this is still cool
Love your videos
5 mins into the video and I just realized the drow is pos 5
1) 7218942694
2) Warlock
3) 5k mmr roleQ game as 4, pick warlock. BM is unhappy with my hero choice, wants WD in his lane instead. Both BM and SF speak spanish while WD and I speak english. Causes some confusion and I start top before portal-ing bot. SF feeds 1v2 after getting hooked, backing away, then going for a risky raze kill. SF tp's back and lane is normal for a moment. Wave is pushing so I go to deward their observer on the high ground that they gave away with movement. SF follows the wave and plays ridiculously aggressive and gets hooked again and dies. SF is very unhappy and stops playing to flame me. I mute him and play as normal, but SF just keeps getting hooked over and over again. I almost thought he was griefing. I make portal plays and get a kill top, and rally WD to come bot and we get a double kill. We are behind, so I stack a lot which lures the enemies in and we get several kills, and get SF ancient stacks. We are so behind and I stall lanes with shard. I turn a bad fight with an insane ult -> e combo at around 24:30 and we almost win a big teamfight off of it (forgot Q RIP). I really tried to carry from pos 5 but SF was just too heavy.
Would you consider making such videos for people a little higher MMR? Like 4k 😊
Nice vid as always!
Here's my submission:
MatchID: 7202719978
I am the Timbersaw.
This is around 2.2k mmr, I was playing Timber mid vs Tinker and won lane pretty hard early and managed to transition it into side lane ganks that helped my team win their lanes. We were dominating, but my team went for some stupid engages with Spirit Breaker and Lifestealer and didn't know how to play around Tinker so we eventually ended up losing a few big fights that catapulted the enemy team back into the game and they eventually won. I know I fucked up on a few occasions feeling that I am stronger than I was and therefore feeding once or twice, but I did a lot of work early to make sure we have a strong game and then my team just let me down. What can I fix for the future to win such games? And also any tips for playing vs Tinker? I was able to pop his shield many times with my R therefore muting his blink CD, but still my team would never really capitalize and we couldn't stop him.
Another one more bad gameplay rewarded with a win and now this mfer thinks he is better than his rank
He dont know why we call offlane as offlane
He got super lucky they were dumb and didn't get nullifier.
1) Match ID: 7213541273
2) I am techies pos 5
3) Think i won my lane with WR against viper and lion. We overall had a great mid game where we dominated but my SB mostly played by himself on the opposite end of the map even when we were pushing towers, ended up getting caught a few times and feeding making it a 4v5. My mid was also kinda bad with his positioning (silencer), always caught out (3 blink daggers on oppo). Thought i positioned relatively well to prevent oppo jumping onto me, but given that we were behind, should i have been the bait at times and just let myself get committed on so my cores can come in after? Was i too safe?
Also i usually go aura build (mek, to greaves later on. pipe. maybe force staff/lotus depending on the game), i dont know if i could itemise differently to affect the game more. Def couldve helped my mid more before he fell way behind. tried a couple of ganks, think we got him once, but the other time ended up dying alongside my silencer when they tp-ed.
1) 7211861405
2) Mars
3) I think I played the lane pretty well but my team lose the other 2 lanes. I'm not sure what to buy during the game so that I can come back to the game. I think I messed up the last 2 arenas, and cost us the game. Would be great to have some more more advice that can help me and the viewers improve when it comes to offlane!
Match ID : 7201823394
Hero : bara
i lost 20 games this week coz stupid pos 1 and 2 in my rank Do NOT BUY A BKB and they answer its just a waste , i follow ur guide and meta i watch every single video u make i learn alot BUT Iam STILL STUCK HERE
i really cant quit dota but i hate the mmr system
It's crazy how different people have wildly varying strengths and weaknesses at the lower MMRs. Necro has the presence of mind to pull his own hard camps, look around on the map, spot rotations, carries dust etc. but then rushes Kaya and doesn't level heartstopper until like level 5 lol
yeaaa… I was going to say “this person is crusader? Seems low guardian pre-7.33 at best” but you point out some fair points I guess
Definitely true. Not sure it stops at low mmr though. You telling me that siractionslacks has the same skillset as other players in his bracket?
@@impressjeweler519 Same, I thought it was a herald play with how he gets himself killed in the first wave, only used creep aggro to pull the wave into his own tower, it's just absolute noobie game play.
Just found your channel. Pretty new to DOTA but I was a longtime league player. You're a great coach, good info and enjoyable to watch!
Thank you, welcome to Dota!
That efficient death in the early game Archon below won't understand, when I used to be in lower bracket they'll just passive-aggressive flame you and some triggers their cry baby state
Man, appreciate your videos so much. Since I've started to watch and analyze my own games with your points. It's actually made me enjoy dota even more.
That's awesome to hear!
as an archon offlane player, this video actually helps me a lot. Thank you
Okay but fr that little itemization box that pops up at the end of the video where you walk through itemization is freaking sweet lol
Imagine playing the hero that gets 32 health and mana per creep denied/farmed (and 192 health and mana for a kill on a hero) and not leveling that ability when you are on the backfoot
Hey man appreciate the video. 2k scrub here. I'd love to see a video from you about the principles of taking high ground. As a support main I find that while I can often secure victory in the lane, which often leads to winning the mid game, I lose some games I should win feeding as our team wipes on the high ground multiple times leading to a coin toss end game.
@Zquixotix My Senapiiii❤
Match ID: 7210277637
Juggernaut Ancient 1.
I understand you prolly don't have the time to watch the entire game. Summary in my perspective.
Firstly I believe it is all my fault. That's the mindset I need to improve.
1st mistake I made was right as lane started. I used spin and took heavy damage.
2nd mistake I died to razor around minute 8 solo Idk what I was thinking that was so stupid.
3rd mistake was my item decision to buy blink dagger it felt useless.
4th mistake: I dont remember if I had aegis or wanted to do rosh top. But I was top and my team took a gank mid. I kept voice comm my team not to go without me but they went and died. We lost rax.
Overall my item build felt trash vs PL.
If I had another chance I would have gone Fury>SNY>Mjollnir>BKB and then butterfly/Mkb.
I would love for you to critique me as much as you can. Laning stage/Mid game/Late game type if possible. Oh also by the end I got flustered and bought aghs recipe to have slot for cheese. PL just felt overwhelming. But I know RTZ would've carried that game. So why can't I?
Help me learn how noob I am Senapii much love to you bro! ❤❤
Liking and commenting on my own comment cause I really want you to notice this. Sorry if it's lame sir.
I mean Senpaiii not Senapii zzz
Here's my submission:
Match ID: 7213992246
I am the Timbersaw.
I am not high ranked, just a Herald/Crusader player looking to get better at the game. We made the laning stage hard for faceless void and AA at bottom and we were kinda dominating early to mid game, I couldn't tank from mid game onwards, whatever item I made had no effect on my tankiness. I built magic resistance items like pipe, BKB but they didn't help that much and QoP and AA kept killing me. Riki was playing safe lane carry and didn't have much impact in team fights and he didn't use his invi to gank AA and I didn't see him much in teamfights, Weaver tried but he couldn't carry alone. What mistakes did I make in teamfights and what could I have done better or different? Was my itemization bad? Should I have gone blademail or lotus orb or both? Was I using my bkb or pipe in the wrong way?
Match ID: 7229127748
POV: Meepo
I don't know why the matchmaker pit us like this. There are divines on both teams while I am legend. Also, I think SF is a smurf account. And while a little bit of a difficult matchup, what with Grim and Shaker aoe abilities, I still am confident in my Meepo pick and plays (I played into Shaker and into Grim before), and I think even with the skill gap I can give them a run for their money. What ends up happening is my Huskar keeps dying for mid T1, trying to find kills, and in skirmishes; Clinkz, Snap, and Pugna don't even take the enemy safelane T1 tower, and all our T1 towers are taken down leaving me with no space on the map to find a way to come back into the game. I even double stacked ancients for myself, a trick I've learned since new-frontiers update, but only took one of the stacks.
There's a lot of blamethrowing and hostility in the air, and I don't think the team tried to give me a fair chance to get into the game.
See, I am thinking to myself: with blink I can find a way to secure kills for my agha, and then I could follow up with bkb; however between the 10 and 15 minutes mark the map became much smaller, and the game quickly spiraled out of control.
Is the loss completely due to Huskar? What could I have done to give myself a chance in this game? I would value input from after the 6 minutes mark more, because I think I won't be able to lane better than I already have.
Any suggestions to the feeding huskar would also be appreciated as he is on my friends list.
Got left alone by my 5 yesterday but he still sponged my xp, then when i was finally high enough to jungle, my 4 was out here taking all the safe farm with undying. Being new is so shitty.
@Zquixotix Am I supposed to blame somebody else to be featured in your video? I like taking accountability bro 😢
My juggernaut is trash I guess so roast me hard I left a comment earlier huhuhu
Match 7222569213
I was playing Medusa. Our early game was horrendous, mid and offlane was feeding and I thought the game was over but I kept farming to get items to hopefully turn the game around. Later on we started to win fights and hold our high ground and after we won a fight near our mid tier 2, I told my team to go tp roshan but they walked through our jungle and got caught and the game got out of control after that.
Post you playing another character live , low effort but hard game, don’t even care if your quiet and thinking it’s DOTA!
As a pos3 necro spammer I hate this build. No greaves against such a right click heavy enemy team, no Shiva's to counter their lifesteal, octarine and ghost scepter are both just asking for nulifier and the greedy dagon is the cherry on top.
Z , can u review more offlane games in 5k bracket ..really need it
Ahhh... good old low rank players blaming their teammates :D
Techies actually was decent for this bracket lol.
The techies was doing great. wtf is wrong with this guy?
I wonder if diving to the mid tower wouldn't had made the mid creep battle happen at the enemies side from the start? Sounds mildly annoying for our mid.
If he goes into tower fast enough, the first creep wave won't aggro to him until they meet the other creeps. It might mess up equilibrium a little bit, but SF is also dead so his midlaner might be able to adjust before SF gets back
Hey Zquixotix, do you watch “Whose Line Is It Anyway?”? Awesome bonkers show 😂
I used to! I don't watch much TV nowadays so I haven't seen the new version
Match Id : 7213485871
Hero: shadow demon
Summary: Picked sd because i didnt know which support to pick that could pickoff a jugg so I wanted to be able to save my carries, jugg shows he is clearly more competent than my cores so i felt pressured to shut him down and forced too much, just didnt know what to do about jugg
Match ID - 7217775770
I'm playing as Slark
I am of the opinion that this particular match belongs to the "unwinnable" category that is beyond one's grasp to influence no matter their performance as every damn fight was always a 4v5 and most of them were reactive or lacked purposes.
It was going fine at the start but the wave felt out of control. Lina did decently with the early kills though I don't remember her pulling or helping me shove the wave. She didn't block camp in the laning phase and hardly ever warded so I don't really know what was her impact. Oracle was helpful with his False Promise, but he died a lot of meaningless deaths so the enemy become too well-fed. I'm not sure how useful Eul, Force Staff, and Glimmer is here with Duel present but the lack of Pavise, Medallion, Crimson, and AC really hurt when there were Medu and Death Ward around as well. DK was really conservative with his ult and showed up late despite being our only tank and supposed initiator so I'm not actually sure what's he even contributing to our team. He even went BKB when they have tons of immunity-piercing stuffs as well as physical damage and an early Silver Edge from LC, instead of building more armor for the team or even himself. Also, I don't really understand why Sniper opted for Mjolnir and Silver Edge instead of just building a Linken when he was clearly struggling against LC and Husk.
I went for Echo Sabre before Diffusal since I thought I could hold out the lane and farm a bit instead of forcing unnecessary early fights. Dunno why Sniper didn't take that Aegis but I doubt it would have made a difference. Maybe I should have joined the team with Rosh, or the fight that happened afterwards but it didn't felt right playing into a Medusa without mana burn. Was my item choice and absence a mistake here? Later on, i died attempting to deward while Oracle was out of range farming a camp. It was my bad for that mispositioning, yet I felt like he's also at fault for not staying closer and placing sentries or at least farming the small camp instead. We also took a bad fight after smoking without DK and fighting outside highground (with Oracle of all people leading the charge). However, I still blame DK for this one since not only did he decided to go farm as a pos 3 while the enemy attempted highground, he returned too late despite being our main tank and having tp available the whole time. I can tolerate Sniper taking farm since he's essential for both defending and pushing highground, but DK just simply did not understand his role this game and took a lot of safe farm when he should have been making space and obtaining more map control alongside the supports so I and Sniper can farm instead. Lina should have brought detection and bought more wards, Oracle could have positioned himself better to die less, they both should have stayed with DK so he can push out the wave, and DK could have stuck with them so they can ward effectively without feeding.
Our backline is too brazen while the tanky frontline is cowardly, and there is always someone out of position so they either die early or contribute nothing every fight. While I'm aware of of my misplays and faults such as going into 3 invis without bringing Dust, it feels unlikely that anything I could do as an individual would steer this match toward victory even if I have played more optimally.
Anyhow, I would really appreciate your inputs and pointers to root out what could have been done better to improve my impact in this game and raise that little chance of a comeback, no matter by how little. Always looking forward to your contents! :D
Match id: 7212198369
I was playing snap pos5 , we had a decent lane (almost lost) . But our offlane ck was dominanting the early game , he was good but our team ignores to push towers . I became toxic bcse I just came outta a game where Mirana griefed for no reason . Me n ck had beef & we made a comeback , I want you to review this long game and put some valuable inputs so that I can learn from them.
1) Match ID 7217026837
2) Spiritbreaker
3) We started the game quite pleasant, I joined the Axe oon his jumps, but at a certain point we were losing the ganks with Clinkz and Dawnbreaker in enemy team being too fast to join in on the catches. I told my Axe we gotta stop that. I gotta say im genuinely curios if we should have commited more heroes to the ganks, stop ganking at all and farm /def fights or if we should have done sth totally different. (Archon II)
That Necro itemization honestly reminds me of the 7.0 days when Agh Scepter upgrade increased the damage on Reaper’s Scythe and made it lock out buyback, so people were just getting aghs, eblade, and dagon, and would run around scything people from full health and then popping eblade + dagon on them before the scythe landed.
Match ID: 7230678778
Hero: Primal Beast
Hey ZQuixotix! I'm currently Ancient 5 bracket. i think me and my support bane did pretty ok during the laning stage here, even managed to get some good rotations later on with the pos 5 giving space for the sniper to farm his items but i think the main reason why we lost this game is the doom pos 1 last pick on our team. i think its really bad pick because we have no real carry to fight the bloodseeker during the later stages of the game. he just gets linkens and our doom pos 1 is useless in teamfights. i think what i really lack to go up the next level is macro as i think i could've done better in the laning stage. i'd love to hear your thoughts on this so i can learn from the mistakes that i did in this game, even if you roast the living hell out of me :D
Bruh, necro is one of my main pos 3 and this guy items build at 10 mins is just so cringe. Wand, rain drops, wraith band/bracer, phase/brown boot & urn. Come on....
I usually just click the portrait on topscreen to creep aggro if there are no heroe nearby, mid is almost always show if you dont have time to oook minimap before
1 question from a necro wannabe: when you get gun on do you press Q once rightaway or do you wait for the time to press W then Q? His Q has really short cd but i seem to die 1 sec from using it again everytime
this kind of player not trying to think on their own instead searching someone to blame of their fault build poor
"NMNP" (No mana, no problem) will be my Crusader team name. That describes us a lot. xD
Crusader is really the new Herald in this new ranking system.
Youd be surprised how often this stuff goes on at divine level as well lmao.
your content is really awesome - thx for teaching!
Learning new stuffs everyday. Keep it up man. Love your videos
What kind of team is that. 4,5 carries
Will you ever look at turbo games? :)
Amazing video
7213104572 - I dont often blame my team, but sometimes griefers gonna grief. I was the treant protector, and I think I did a lot of things well in the laning, and my team let you down. Im not perfect.. i may have even bought two different boots at one point.. but damn my team didnt know what to build at all or how to play together :(
What's wrong with their item builds? It looks fine to me
First! Great video btw.
I like this series. :)
ROFL no mana, no problem!
Time to max out my game then.
No heartstopper at level 3 is painful to watch
This whole video could be avoided if he added heartstopper at level 3. Full hp full mana and the lane is just over, WK and drow does nothing and its an easy kill at 6
Nearly the beginning you say "creep aggro does work globally" - what does this mean?
if you right click an enemy hero the creeps will start attacking you, regardless of where the enemy hero you're "attacking" is.
Sick
Wouldn't killing himself to the mid tower at the start still given the enemy some gold? Sincere question!
It would give some gold, but it's not a lot so it wouldn't be a huge deal. SF lost some gold so it would somewhat balance out. Plus, by going to lane super low, he ended up giving the gold to WK and lost out on gold/XP from creeps
@@ZQuixotix Ah I see. And the cost of walking back to base to TP to lane at full HP is less than the cost of giving SF the gold (like you said), and the WK kill.
That makes sense, but that also feels like any death you get where you barely survive means you should just kill yourself to the tower right after and give the opponent gold so you can have full HP the next time. Maybe it's based on how much regen you have or something.
I'm sure there's subtlety there I'm missing!
Honestly you're pretty spot on with that. Mainly as long as you are by yourself and it's still early in the game, dying to tower after you've killed the enemy can be pretty good to get all your resources back. But after the first few levels, the death timer starts to get longer and it's actually faster to just walk back. Or perhaps you have tons of natural Regen then of course you also don't have to die to reset. It's sort of a mental calculation of what will the lane be like when they respawn and come back. If you can't play the lane at all, probably reset. If you'll be fine, then you're good to go.
I'm sure there's more to consider like last hits and stuff, but hopefully that helps a bit! It's much more common for supports to do this but cores sometimes have situations for it like in this video!
@@TankorSmash suicide by tower only applyes before the 1min mark or if you are too tanky, usualy if you need to "reset" you just suicide on the neutral creeps during the laning phase.
You'd give like 2 creeps of gold to the enemy, but in return you don't lose 5 waves of creeps and still die to the enemy safe carry who now gets the same gold you avoided giving to the mid laner, but unlike the mid laner the carry *also* gets exp from you dying. It's best to just acknowledge that the enemy is going to get something in this trade, and go for the play that makes the trade more efficient for you than the enemy, rather than stubbornly trying to ensure that your enemy gets nothing.
Man this necro is so bad... How are you this bad, you didn't even take heartstopper until level 4. No wonder you lost.
1:00 is this serious advice?? Wouldn't that give the enemy SF gold? And then you'd also block the wave onto the SF's side of the map. You'd be massively trolling your mid laner as a support.. Isn't the whole point of the support to boost his laners????????????????
Absolutely! SF is dead and the first creep wave doesn't aggro until they meet in the middle. SF will get a little gold, but no XP for the death to tower (he also lost some gold for dying). This is for offlane Necro, but I'd give the same advice to a support hero in this position. Showing up to lane with no resources is pretty much a lost lane (which would make the game harder for everyone)
heralds have no concept of laning xD
even high legends and low ancients dont
your jokes just made my day thank you :) @ZQuixotix