How to Hang Floor Joists on ICF Concrete Walls: LVL Beams and Open Web Floor Joists
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- Опубліковано 11 тра 2021
- How to Hang Floor Joists on ICF Block Walls
Episode 14: In this episode, John is onsite learning about how the crew hung floor joists off the LVL beam for the first floor. The web joists were specifically engineered and built for just our house and the ICF walls. The LVL beams were fastened to the ICF block and into the concrete used in the initial pour. John also takes you downstairs to show how wood framing is connected to the ICF block, in our case Fox Blocks. Our amazing wood crew managed to complete the entire first floor and the stairs in just ONE DAY! The benefits of using open web floor joists are discussed along with why we went with 9 foot ceilings in our basement rather than the standard 8 foot. Enjoy!
Contractors and suppliers in this episode:
Fox Blocks ICF Forms
Area Information:
Table Rock Lake Chamber of Commerce
www.visittablerocklake.com - Навчання та стиль
Everytime yt recommends a channel like this, just makes me so giddy happy I live where there are no building codes!
Yes! It does make things easier for us DIYers!
I've seen some ICF builds where they don't even use a rim joist for the floor joists, they have special hangers that are forced through the foam _before_ the concrete is poured then the concrete locks the hanger in place. You would still need a rim joist on the walls parallel to the flooring joists, just not the full perimeter. You do need to be very accurate and plan ahead with those, you wouldn't have the flexibility of using the rim joist.
Awesome, really enjoy seeing the progress
Awesome content and coverage of the build.
Beautiful. Those look much more substantial than standard I-joists.
Thank you for watching!
And they allow all your HVAC, plumbing and electrical to be above the ceiling in the basement.
My brother has those open web floor joists. He uses a remote control toy truck with headlights to pull computer cables.
Brilliant!
Giving me ideas! Thanks!
All i can say is this: Your videos are great. I am learning a ton of stuff. The comments provide equal learning, if not more. Thanks for the great content. Cheers from Astorville Ontario Canada.
Thank you for watching! I love this community of smart people and am so glad the comments and videos have been helpful.
Thank you for your video, they are very informative.
Again, a very cool video. I'd never heard of web joists before and I like them. Reminds me of engineered rafters/trusses. It would absolutely make running plumbing and ductwork much easier. Nine foot ceilings are a good idea.
Common method in my area is to turn the brickledge form inward and the floor trusses sit on that. I needed 10” core form and there was no brickledge form in that size at the time, so upsized to 12” core for basement and 6” core above, and that left a nice ledge for floor system.
Some manufacturers do not recommend using a brick ledge as a joist hanger. The product I use suggest either the one shown in the video or a bracket manufactured by Simpson ties for ICF.
I like the oversized basement form idea.
Great work, I'm a truss designer it's a pleasure if i can help in any case of truss designing
There are hangers for ICF that are let into the forms before the pour so you don't need a ledger. Then you only need a ledger at the edges parallel to the floor trusses.
Really curious what type of anchor bolt would be required to hold the leger board with that kind of weight ??
They make an optional trimable joist 6" & 12" trimable. Also I would put a dalup of construction glue in the bottom of the hanger to keep it from squeaking.
Would you guys be open to my family and I making a trip to check out your project? We are a couple months away from starting our own ICF build but it will be DIY and I'd like to get eyes on a project beforehand if possible. We aren't to far from the Ozarks.
are those approved hanger screws?
Is the on center of the floor truss 24 inches?
Good Morning.
It’s great seeing everything come together. Gotta ask a question though. Why not make the floor concrete like in the garage and for the roof. Was it a engineering issue or possibly cost, or both
Hi John! Really just a cost issue. We had just that one section of flooring and decided to go with the open web versus extending the LiteDeck (which is expensive).
@@LakeLotBuild Any idea what the cost is approximately for the lite deck installation per square foot? I’m also building a flat roof and leaning towards concrete to be able to add a rooftop space. Thank you for putting these videos together!
Educational Video. I noticed the bracing of the ICF was wood, was there a reason you did not use the ICF bracing system?
Nope. That's just what our ICF builder used. We were able to reuse all of the 2x4s for framing in the house so it didn't end up being a waste of wood.
I saw a house with web floor joist and the top 2x4 extended about 6” beyond the web joist and that sat on top of the foundation wall. Did not look right. Hanging on a 2x4 on the flat !! Please give me your insight
Sorry if I missed it in the comments but what was the length of the span the floor trusses covered? I am working on the plans for a 34 ft. wide walk out basement and am looking at an ICF wall running down the long axis of the basement to split the 34 ft. span in half and provide maximum support for the floor truss system.
Ours spanned 26 feet. The engineers can make them span much further though by modifying the trusses.
Great work with longreach (timber web ) floor trusses. Used walling plate hangers to connect. How much maximum span of trusses
It really depends on how big the truss is. We worked with the company and the engineers to make sure that ours were strong enough to span 26 ft.
After discussion they agreed to review, they were thinking it has I-joist but they found open web truss joist. Now they are telling web truss is expensive and strong but sound is expected. I find the sound very annoying, is there a way to reduce it. Builder tried multiple time and saying all is good and this cannot be perfect. Floor is little bouncy too. Please suggest. Sound is primarily in second floor hanging area like Game room with kitchen under it.
Beautiful view and nice video. Is that Table Rock Lake?
It is indeed!
@@LakeLotBuild we’re getting ready to build on Beaver Lake down in Rogers, AR. I wonder if that company comes down this way? I may call and see.
Aww, we lived on Beaver Lake for 8 years. We were in Rogers and our view was of the HW 12 bridge over the lake. We loved it there. I'm sure there are ICF companies in the area that can probably do a good job!
Man I bet we could throw a rock and hit your old place! Ironically we moved here from Southwest Missouri!
What method would you suggest to reinforce an open web truss to support weight pulling down? For example, hanging a swing or workout equipment from the truss in the basement.
You would just need to work with the engineers at the trust company to make sure that it could meet your application needs.
Trusses designed accordingly how many load will be applied on it.. . Like an extra load applied on trusses where a bath tub will be located and trusses will be designed accordingly.
My architect want to use the ICF concrete roof panel. If you don’t mine, What is the price range for such roof?
I think ours ended up being around $25 per square foot. That was JUST the concrete roof. You have to coat it or cover it to keep it from leaking and that has been an additional $3-5 per sq foot.
At 9:36, you show the hangers coming through the rim joist and then fastened using nut and washer. What is the diameter of the hangers? what is the diameter of the whole hole in the rim joist? I can't imagine them being very tight as you have line up that many numbers of hangers with holes. right?
I think these are 3/4 inch bolts. They are set into 8 inches of concrete, so pretty substantial.
@@LakeLotBuild And what was the diameter of the hole in the rim board? Aligning that many holes with that many bolts must have been very difficult unless if you make the hole really oversize. right?
@@hameedtalebi2351 ...pretty sure the holes are drilled, then hanger/bolts slid through & tightened, then the entire rim joist is mounted to the ICF's webbing with the bent hanger passed through the large cut-outs made in the foam, then it's secured fully once the concrete sets.
@@hameedtalebi2351 ah, I see. The holes through the concrete where the styrofoam is cut away is around 4-5 inch diameter. You can see that process in the clip I inserted when David says "you can edit that in" right at the start of his interview.
@@LakeLotBuild I am not an expert in house building, but from stand point of physics, this doesn't seems right. Basically, what keep the rim joist in place is the friction caused by tightening the nuts and washer. At first, this will work, but overtime if the nut get lose, it may cause some sagging in the floor. right? @"Kode Harvey" has a video that makes more sense: ua-cam.com/video/3r7deql-CIk/v-deo.html
the bottom chord of the floor truss system in my house is not attached, there are no load bearing walls and Its ICF.. does this make sense?
If I'm reading this correctly, I would suggest joist hangers because wood is stronger in compression than in suspension.
We are about to close on selling a home that suffers from one of those joists that was compromised by a plumber that needed a path for his pipe (yes we disclosed it). It's always the joist between plumbing clusters, so any water overflow in the bathroom or the kitchen flows backwards towards the wall and under the cabinets. NEVER again. When we build I will insist on those open joists. If any contractor even THINKS of cutting into an open joist, I will fire them, have them pay for its replacement and then have them flogged (OK. Maybe not that far, but I will be tempted).
I'm so sorry that happened to you. We walked through a house under construction one time and we saw where the HVAC contractor had run HUGE round ducts through the joists of the main floor. Horrible.
@@LakeLotBuild It amazes me that this happens AND it gets past the inspectors. This is why we will be acting as GCs when we build. I appreciate material like this that give us heads up on things to watch out for and things to consider as we get closer to building.
At Pacific ICF we supply AMVIC ICF forms and Simpson ICF VL ledger anchors, at 4 ft o.c. for easily bolting on the ledger. In fact there are only two slots required to cut through ICF foam for the anchor arms to hang inside the concrete, later on the ledger is installed with some Simpson bolts every four feet along two facing walls. These cannot be used outside however ( for a deck) and another bolting system could be used. You can attach bolts pre concrete to the ledger and install the ledger before pouring the wall, make holes in ICF foam between webs but cut them on a 45 ish degree angle so the concrete area is larger on inside of form ( strength). This video shows a lot of work for the same result
I’m surprise that there wasn’t any liquid nail used in the floor joists hangers to stop squeaking noise
Why do they need such big cutouts on the outside of the foam wall for the anchor bolts? It seems like they would only need to be marginally larger than the diameter of the bolt itself, this would help reduce the amount of exposed concrete and therefore keep thermal transfer down
It ‘supports’ the bolt as it passes through the 2 inches depth of the foam. The bolts each have amazing shear strength, but could bend under load over time ( steel is malleable). Also, tensioning the bolts would have the effect of pulling the beam into and crushing the foam. Having the concrete surrounding the bolts allows the beam to be fully tensioned to the concrete, and for the bolts and concrete to work together to prevent sagging of the beam over time.
Excellent question and answer thank you
@@andrewallason4530what kind of bolts are those ? Are those special bolts or just regular J bolts for concrete ?
Why drill a 4 in hold through ICF for what should’ve a 5/8 hole
What's the L/ on those trusses?
"Laminated"
Did the truss manufacturer think of using Top-chord bearing to sit on the ledger board? Seems like a ton of money could've been saved by avoiding buying all those hangers. Those Simpsons add up quick
Watched another ICF build of the things he said if doing it again instead of solid joist he would use what you are calling open web floor joust.
If you are in new build, why not put the mini-split cassette in the ceiling and run air ducts to your son's room and other locations in the basement? I mean, that is why you used trusses in the first place. I love the split condenser technology, but hate the wall units in a house. Put them in a shop or garage, but mechanicals shouldn't be visible in a living space.
You make a great point! We are talking to our HVAC shop about this now.
What are the dimensions of this build?
The footprint is 25 x 50 foot. We have two levels. There will also be a full rooftop deck spanning the entire footprint.
Im pretty sure those truss joists are installed upside down
I hope they took those construction screws out of the hangers. Those are not designed for sheer and will fail.
Yep! They go back with a special nail gun used only for the hangers.
@@LakeLotBuild Just make sure they remove those screws and use structural screws in their place. You can't set nails in holes that had screws. That is not how you hang a hanger. Even if temporarily..
This is obviously an amazing and 3xpensive build. What I don't understand is why you don't have an elevator. We all get old and an elevator would allow you to stay in your lovely for the rest of your life. One elevator would add about $69k to the build. Just wondering.
We are actually on a really tight budget. We went with ICF concrete build because it is the same or less than lumber right now. We will finish everything on the inside just my wife and I. Thank you for watching!
would love to hear some pros/cons from Dave about LVL vs something like a Watkins joist hanger.
ua-cam.com/video/38Sam16wJjw/v-deo.html
It all comes down to cost and preference.. Those simpson or watkins hangers are pricey and don't have as much play.
no wood cocrete only roofs Thank you stay away from wood please guys especially in Florida hurricanes and Termites Thanks or use Cedar wood instead of white pine cedar the critters dont like than the wood would be okay
Ugh. So much for a thermal break. He would have been much further ahead to remove the round piece of foam after the pour, added the bolt and returned the foam. 6" is way more than enough concrete to hold. Why did they go the extra step to make it worse? This is negating the reason to have ICF in the first place. Just the bolt alone through the foam would be a huge loss, imagine the loss to the thermal mass after this.