As a native St. Louisan, I can attest that the general sentiment toward the NFL today is "go suck it!" We don't want another team. We've been screwed twice. Most folks forget that Bill Bidwell relocated the Cardinals to AZ much the same way, the difference being that the Cardinals were such a terrible team that we were happy to see them leave. Some area residents have overlooked what happened with the Rams and now cheer for the Chiefs, but many more locals don't even turn on their TVs on Sunday afternoon. Are we a football town? Ask the XFL.
May the Battlehawks entertain the citizens of St. Louis until the days of the USA are no more. Ha ha. And I pray blessings over you and the people of your city. St. Louis will always have a special place in my heart ever since I went on a mission trip to the Dream Center there in 2019. :)
I'm of the opinion that St. Louis won't get another NFL team until Goodell is out as commissioner as well as certain owners (you know of whom I speak). Further, it should not be another relocated team, as the Cardinals (Chicago) and Rams (Cleveland by way of LA) were. In the meantime, Ka-Kaw is the Law, and I'm hoping for more good things from the BattleHawks.
@@skidawg22 Agree that it shouldn't be a relocation team, if at all. It would have to be a new expansion, which is tough since the league isn't in expansion mode now that they have a tidy 32 teams. But I'm okay with no team except the Battlehawks.
@soulcabby the NFL would never allow the Bears to leave Chicago. As for the Jags they’re spending hundreds of millions to renavate their current stadium so they are going anywhere either.
@soulcabbyyou’re on crack if you think the bears are leaving the Chicago area. They might leave the city itself but not to anywhere outside Chicagoland. The jaguars aren’t leaving either, they’re getting a new stadium
Right. They can each save a dime, and watch the franchise move to a better stadium and be super bowl champs again. Having a champion in your city is not worth a dime.
I am also a proud St. Louisan. I am a Battlehawks season ticket holder and went to Rams games when they were in town. It never felt like a “win”, losing the NFL is devastating for a city. Especially one with such a rich history in North American sports.
@@scarpfishCan’t speak on the Atlanta Flames, but in the case of both the Atlanta Thrashers and St. Louis Rams + St. Louis Cardinals the teams were absolutely terrible and ran awfully. Of course they didn’t succeed. You can’t blame that on the fanbase or city. Do we think the Golden Knights would’ve been as successful in Vegas had they not been instantly successful? I don’t. The Rams were bad in St. Louis after like 2005 and historically bad in the 2010s. It was pretty clear to everyone here that it was intentional by Kroenke. It’s no coincidence that within a few years of moving from STL to LA that the Rams won a Super Bowl and were suddenly willing to build a competitive team. The Rams were plenty successful in St. Louis when it seemed like management and ownership was actually attempting to put a good product out on the field.
I went to the last Rams game. The fact the fans fought the bitter end for the squad speaks to how dirty we got done by not just the NFL but by those in charge at the time of the city and state.
That's mostly correct. Thanks for doing a great job on this. For more detailed information, the sports law podcast Conduct Detrimental did a number of episodes on the St. Louis lawsuit. I highly recommend checking those out.
Stan's also very much hated in North London by Arsenal fans (the SOB owns Arsenal). I've heard but can't confirm that he's also hated in Denver (he sold the Nuggets and Avalanche to his wife, and owns Colorado Rapids).
@@skidawg22we dislike Kroenke in Denver because his company Altitude will not make a deal with Comcast to allow broadcasting of the regular season Nuggets and Avalanche games, so 90%+ of the fanbase in Colorado can’t even watch the games. This has been going on for several years now. Both companies are greedy but Comcast is willing to make a deal but Kroenke won’t budge. It’s irritating.
@@skidawg22 Kroenke may have "sold" the teams to his wife, but he was on the ice to hoist the cup 2 years ago and handed out rings aa few months ago at the nuggs banner game. As annoying as it is to not have the games on Comcast - i think most of us in Denver are happy with Kroenke ownership and the championships he's brought us
It doesn’t matter how successful a team or loyal a fan base is. The NFL will do whatever it wants to do. The Eagles almost moved before Norman took over in 1985. This was a historic franchise that might not have had a ton of success in the post Super Bowl era but there always is a loyal following and a season ticket waiting list decades long.
Wow, that is wild, I didn't know there was ever a threat of them moving! As much as I cheer for the Eagles to lose each and every game they play, I could not imagine the NFL without the PHILADELPHIA Eagles! Sincerely, a Cowboys fan.
@@cardboard87 yeah one of the previous Owners Lenard Tose had a lot of gambling debts. The guy who he made a deal with to get him out of debt, let him maintain ownership, but the team would have to be in Phoenix. In fact the only way Philadelphia found out was because a reporter in Phoenix broke the story early and knew a lot of the local politicians.
@@WOLFXJ13 When the taxpayers of the crap city have heavily subsidized the sports team's play palace, just for the owner to tank the team, so no one shows up at games, so the owner has an excuse to blackmail the city for a newer nicer play palace or treatens to relocate, no the team shouldn't be able to leave, at least not without cleaning up the mess they caused.
@@WOLFXJ13No, a team should be a representative of the people and soul of a city. Not some corporation who’s only in it for the money and will jump ship the money they smell money elsewhere. The NFL is a souless plastic league. The only team with any real connection to its city are the Packers due to being a fan owned team. All teams should be fan owned, but the money grubbing NFL won’t allow it.
@@scarpfish No but there have been far more relocations in the NFL over the years than in baseball or the NBA. In fact the only relocation recently in baseball were the Montreal Expos now they could change soon with Oakland.
As a Lifelong St. Louis Resident, seeing my city get screwed out of teams twice was bad, but the way Kroenke went about moving the Rams was simply Villainous. He actively badmouthed us as "not Sports-friendly". Which is ludicrous, considering that: a) The Cardinals draw 3 million every year, b) the Blues always have a solid season ticket base and frequently sell out, c) The Football Cardinals typical went 4-9-1, hosted 1 playoff game in 25 years, and still hit 90%+ of stadium capacity despite being rarely competitive, and d) the Rams had a 5 year record of 15-65, worst in NFL History! Maybe provide a competitive team and see how they get supported. The Battlehawks are a prime example. The only way I'd want an expansion team is if the owners were forced to sign a 99 year lease with a $10 billion penalty for breaking it.
Just be happy you didn’t have to pay for a stadium with your tax money. These greedy corporate welfare clowns want to sucker people into paying for things they can afford and yet still pay no taxes on their revenue.
I don't understand why a city would want a football team. Waste of time, waste of money, waste of space, waste of energy, waste of traffic every sunday.
I always laugh my ass off every time someone says St. Louis "got screwed out of two teams." Where do you think those teams came from? Were the Cardinals and Rams expansion teams? Original franchises in your city? No, on both counts! Truth is the Cardinals were stolen from Chicago and the Rams were stolen from Los Angeles. You hypocrites had no problem when an owner of a team left another city because they thought they could get a better deal in yours, yet when those same teams move on to yet another city to get an even better deal you play the victim and claim you were screwed. Truth is, St. Louis lost TWO NFL teams it couldn't hold on to, and after the lawsuit you will never get another one. Deal with it.
@@MarkMay-cr6bvthe difference is that Chicago and LA would have got a team one way or another. LA is too big a market to not have one and Chicago had the bears. St. Louis isn’t as big a market so it hurts way more to have the team leave.
Yay for St. Louis! I'm tired of pro sports teams and corporations strong arming cities and states into tax reparations and abatements leaving the tax paying citizens to make up the difference plus pay taxes when you purchase as in TIFs.
The NFL Relocation committee recommended the Rams stay in St. Louis based upon its new stadium proposed for building but still needed owner contribution. As a result of the St. Louis lawsuit it was learned owner approval for Stan Kroenke to move only was approved once Kroenke signed an indemnification agrrement to compensate NFL owners from any St. Louis lawsuits. The St. Louis lawsuit seemed like a long shot but did settle out of court. A better resolution would have been for the NFL to give St. Louis an expansion team if they wanted to appease Stan Kroenke who did have a few owners back him. Surprising to me it was just released in the media St. Louis TV viewership of the NFL is on par with Kansas City even though there is no longer an NFL team. I am not one of them but do follow the BattleHawks and Mizzou. You did a great job with this video. Your information also came out in a large article by the St. Louis Post Dispatch following the lawsut settlement. This article did an even more thorough job including when Kroenke years prior purchased the land for SOFI and his E-MAILS with other owners and Goodell.
I was able to win high school state championships three years in a row inside of the dome before the Rams left St. Louis. It was awesome but the Edward Jones Dome was definitely not up to par for a professional football team.
St Louis didn't "win", St Louis blinked. Kroenke and the league were scheduled to go to court in St Louis the week of the Super Bowl, being played in Kroenke's new stadium featuring Kroenke's LA Rams. This was about to overshadow the league's marquee event and could have been devastating for the league. Kroenke, would have been compelled to testify as well as the NFL commissioner and some of the other league owners, most likely including Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, who helped push through the Rams move with other league owners. In exchange Jone's construction company got the contract to build Kroenke's So-Fi Stadium, so he would have been in big trouble as well. This had the makings of a 2 BILLION dollar settlement that would have shaken the league and made Stan Kroenke a pariah (if he isn't already) among league owners and would have forever changed how cities and leagues handle team relocations. Instead, Stan paid 570 million dollars-Kroenke is worth 39 BILLION. In other words, he paid a parking ticket. St Louis had Kroenke and the NFL by the short hairs but they let these scum bags off the hook. I promise you the NFL breathed a sigh of relief the day they wrote that check to St Louis.
Yeah. I remember reading something about Jones being in the middle of it. That same article hinted that the rest of the owners were worried that the lawsuit could force them to open their books, something none of them are keen on since one can only imagine how many "hidden fees" and other money laundering schemes are wrapped up in these stadiums. The cozy relationship the league has with gambling houses may have even come out. Strange things happen when people get on the stand. Not saying it would have played out that way, but the money the league declares is only a fraction of the revenue they generate. As I recall, the other owners were pretty pissed off about the way the Rams owner handled the entire affair.
@@itinerantpatriot1196 you are 100% correct. Only the Raiders and Chargers voted against the Rams move. Only the Rams were given permission to move. Behind closed doors Kroenke threatened to sue his fellow owners if they didn't go along- a bluff I'm sure but it worked. Jones, who is an LA native and his cowboys train in Thousand Oaks ca outside LA, which the St Louis Rams did their final season i believe. Hmmmm...wonder why? Jones carried Kroenke's water. The night of the fateful NFL vote, Kroenke was nowhere to be found, however, I'm sure you can find video somewhere, someone got a camera on Jerry Jones, who was asked if St Louis is an NFL city, to which he replied "St Louis IS and NFL city." When the league was going to lose in St Louis court, the other NFL owners panicked. It was reported Kroenke sent his attorney in (Kroenke doesn't like to get his hands dirty) to tell the other owners Stan was going to negotiate his own settlement with St Louis and the other owners were going to get sued and dragged into court one by one. Not wanting that to happen they came up with the joint payment out of court to St Louis. This is why St Louis and its attorneys had no spine. They could have and would have gotten twice what they got if they had better legal representation.
The city of St Louis could buy the naming rights to the St Louis battle Hawks and pay the expansion team fee and have a permanent team. The city can qualify for infrastructure grants and loans if they spend money on that stuff. Due ownership sale like green Bay does, stadium naming rights with votes from local voters, SSL sales and surrounding urban development leases. That should give them enough money.
I grew up in Maryland - the Colts left. I lived, for many years, in St. Louis. The Cards left, the Rams came and went. Look at the Cleveland Ravens, the "your name here" Rams, and so on. The NFL has no business attaching the names of cities to teams. The franchises are vagabonds, perpetually looking to "monkey branch" to a better deal. Not only are the players free agents, but the teams are as well. I would rather burn the money than buy a ticket to an NFL game.
@@robertewalt7789the original Cleveland Browns franchise. They moved to Baltimore and Cleveland sued the nfl to retain the Browns franchise. The Browns1.0 rebranded to the Ravens and the Cleveland Browns 2.0 were an expansion team in 1999 (I think that was the year. So much shifted around in the 90s/early 00s)
it’s sad too because it’s usually the struggling cities that see their teams leave. it’s like a visual, emotional and visceral demonstration of your hometown losing national relevance. it’s not just about the sport
In 1993 I was a 6yr old lad when I fell in love with the game of football due to this guy called Jerome Bettis who was drafted by the Los Angeles Rams. A Los Angeleno at my first game was hooked from the very start so my devastation was unfathomable when my rams left only two years later. I didn’t know how teams could just leave. I didn’t believe it. I was told the owner passed & it didn’t makes sense to me. I didn’t understand widow tax exemptions or care that Georgia was from St Louis so that’s where she wanted to relocate them. I felt terrible. But nonetheless stayed a fan. (Still have old St Louis rams gear) That said it’s unfortunate for the ppl of St Louis. Especially for the 6yr old kid who fell in love with the greatest show on turf. But business is business. Glad both cities were able to experience SB wins in this lifetime. Great upload.
It always comes down to money, btw LOVE the vid, I just wish you had gone into more detail about some of these practices. I didn't know the NFL lent money to these cities (or owners) to build the stadiums. Very interesting...more vids like this with more deets plz!
And now St. Louis has one of eight teams in the UFL, which will be successful. The Battlehawks are already a beloved team and support will continue to grow.
BattleHawks led the UFL in attendance, averaging 34K in '24. The next closest was DC Defenders at 14K. It's not even close, and a direct result of the NFL's mistreatment of St. Louis.
I respectfully disagree. Thing is, the NFL keeps their books closed so we don’t know if the settlement actually harmed them. Also, these non-disclosure agreements keeps their secrets private. A lot of this needs to come to light someday!
Of course it's a loss for them, $790 million is not pocket change. NFL's revenue in 2021 was 11 billion, now that's the revenue not the profit, the profit will be much less when all is said and done and all the expenses and paychecks are dished out, so ya can bet losing almost 1 billion out of your 11 billion revenue is going to have a good sting especially on Kroenke and rich people also don't like having to pay up any amount of money especially such a large sum. Is that payout going to cripple or seriously hurt the NFL or Kroenke? No, of course not, but it's definitely a loss for them. If it was just pocket change for them, they wouldn't spend 5 years trying to fight this case and get it tossed, they would settle pretty quickly, but they fought it till the end and finally settled only because fighting on would result in an even bigger loss.
@@tomatoisnotafruit5670 and the NFL will never forget that in future expansion plans or another potential relocation. STL took the money, wonder what the hell they did with it.
@@mreppen1 NFL will never forget what? that they got exposed and had to pay compensation for breaking their own rules? Why are you trying to make the NFL the victim here lol
@@tomatoisnotafruit5670 my point is the NFL gave the City the money, and they will not forget that fact. STL will never get an NFL team again. STL took the money.
I'm not a native, but I've lived in the STL since 76. I loved Big Red football. I was not happy when they left, but I was realistic and understood the business side of sports. When the Rams moved here, I was suspicious once I saw the lease arrangement on the barn...i mean dome.. It seemed to me a short-term rental. I started telling everyone in 99 to enjoy it while it lasts, and everyone thought I was crazy lol. I think it was obvious from the beginning that the Rams were not going to be a staple in the Stl. I'm not bitter or upset about it. We got two superbowl appearances and 1 championship! Life goes on. One thing I'll say about this Midwest city is that there are too many gullible sports fans. They eat up the garbage and bs fed to them by their local sports journalists. The journalists that state the truth don't last long or get delegated to bad time slots on the airwaves and get the least amount of push. Pro sports is business, plane and simple!
According to St. Louis sports historian and author Greg Marecek who has since passed away tthe Cardinals leaving had to do with a clash of the separate St. Louis city and county governments not agreeing on a location for a new football stadium. Bill Bidwell thought Phoenix was right away building him a new stadium but lack of funding there it took 18 years so they played at Arizona State all those years. Attendance was not an issue in St. Louis. I followed them all their years here from 1960-1987 after they moved here from Chicago.
The history should stay with the city. The Browns did it right. Johnny Unitas belongs to Baltimore, Earl Campbell to Houston. If greedy owners move, the colors , name and history should stay with the city.
The NFL has no loyalty whatsoever for any city where one of their franchises is located. Except for Green Bay, the Giants, the Jets or Dallas, every team can and will be able to bolt into a “better” city. What’s to stop Miami from being moved to Orlando? Nothing at all. The Saints going to Miami? Nothing at all. It’s at a point where the NFL has no loyalty whatsoever to any metropolitan area where a team is located. MLB steadfastly refuses to allow a team moving out of their current home without a very specific reason. The NBA is like the NFL, a team can move wherever it wants whenever it wants to.
This is because MLB is legally exempt from antitrust laws. These laws make it a lot easier for metropolitan areas to keep their teams. The NFL, NBA and NHL are not exempt from these laws, and must provide guidelines on relocation to provide a fair process for the cities involved as well as keep them out of trouble with the federal government. It's ignoring those guidelines that was the basis for the St. Louis lawsuit. Meanwhile, the Chargers and Raiders were in cities that were unwilling to follow those guidelines, hence why it's a lot easier to say their moves were even more justified than the one being talked about here.
As a St.Louisan, we beat them for 790 million and there always is football on Saturdays 😁😀😂 I don't care what happens to the 790 million in the city of St.Louis or the lawyers got paid bigly, what I care about is the city of St.Louis beat the NFL and made all of the owners pay especially Kroenke. It's about principle, we don't need the NFL. It always was about the money Kroenke was going to make moving the team back to LA but we got a piece of the pie too. The NFL isn't undefeated any longer in relocation.
Now look at us. Four sports teams, one being an original MLB team and the other being a hockey team that's been here since the 60's, along with St. Louis Football being brought back and we just got an MLS team. Kroenke, Goodell, I made sure to buy both of you some kneepads. You'll be there for a while. Hail to the Lou.
And don't forget that the Rams refused to refund licensing fees and pre-paid season tickets to St. Louis fans. Their reasoning: the Rams are still playing, local fans can still attend the home games 2 time zones away.
Why? Why would somebody move a team to St Louis when they can make way more money elsewhere? I can’t believe you people think the billionaires that own these teams care about your feelings. It’s absolutely ridiculous… “I’m going to buy an NFL team for $7 billion just so St Louis people’s feelings aren’t hurt”
St. Lous didn't roll over or cower at the feet of the NFL. They took them to court and won. As a result, they will never get another NFL team. I firmly believe the NFL is vindictive like that. Look at the way they treated that cameraman in Miami. They needed to beat him down just so they could feel big and important. Good on Hill for basically canceling out their vindictive move.
I certainly believe they'll only come back once Goodell is out as commissioner and certain owners (Stan and Jerry Jones in particular) are dead and gone. Further, it would have to be an expansion team. No more relocated teams (people tend to forget that the Cardinals were originally a Chicago team, while the Rams were from Cleveland by way of LA).
I still have relative living in St. Louis and my cousin is still a Rams fan. He said alot of sports fans in St. Louis is still hurt by Stan Kroenke relocating the Rams but that wasn't the worst thing he committed. It was the bashing of St. Louis sport fans and how he portray the city as the worst place for an NFL team to play for. When it was exposed about what he said, Stan became the most hated man in the city.
St Louis fans are the most smug, obnoxious people on the planet. They act like they invented baseball. You’d think they win the WS every year with how these people talk… they have 2 in my lifetime. The Astros won 2 in the last 6 years. The Blues literally just injured people to win their Stanley Cup, I have never seen the NHL gift wrap a team a SC like that. It was embarrassing. The Blues will never win another SC in your lifetime, I promise. The NHL gave them their one. The Rams fans claim that a Super Bowl was stolen from them by the Patriots, cause they actually had to play the game and weren’t just given the SB trophy. They don’t even have an NBA team… you guys are great in your own mind.
@@josephsmith2417 Show us on the doll where St. Louis sports fans hurt you. The St. Louis Cardinals baseball team has the second most World Series wins of any team (second only to the NY Yankees). Most years they are winners of their division (not that they have much competition from the other teams some years). Are you still mad about that Pujols bomb in Houston in the playoffs? ua-cam.com/video/lsEuTYbDRwE/v-deo.html Or just mad your team cheated to win and got caught? And the Blues weren't even expected to beat Winnipeg in the first round. Or are you mad about the double overtime win the Blues had over Dallas? ua-cam.com/video/v_NQRWPwR3Y/v-deo.html Shit, Bishop is the only reason that game lasted that long. Never mind the SJ Sharks handpass that led to the Sharks win.ua-cam.com/video/lex0ba6F3LY/v-deo.html O'Reilly played with a cracked rib for most the playoffs from an injury he received against Winnipeg. www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/stanley-cup-final-2019-playoff-mvp-ryan-oreilly-played-through-rib-injury/1dveajxk80vaj18wklafm53s59 Hockey is physical sport. Just like when Kadri took out Bennington in the playoffs a couple of years ago. Or when Grant Fuhr was taken out in 1996 when he was backstopping a super team of NHL stars for St. Louis. And the fact that the Patriots recorded the Rams practices to learn the plays seems kinda like cheating of most fans I bet. We get it you don't like St. Louis sports teams. Bias confirmed.
The Cardinals were originally from Chicago before moving to St Louis and then eventually Phoenix. The Rams were originally based in Los Angeles before moving the team to St Louis. They moved back to Los Angeles in 2015. The Chargers were originally based in Los Angeles. They played one season in Los Angeles before moving to San Diego. When San Diego would not approve a new stadium for the Chargers, the team asked to move back to LA. The Raiders were originally based in Oakland. In 1984 they moved to Los Angeles and in 1995 moved back to Oakland. In 2015 they were among 3 teams trying to move back to Los Angeles. The Chargers. RAIDERS, and the Rams. Only 2 teams would be approved to move, leaving the Raiders as the odd team out. Now they are in Las Vegas.
True but they moved to LA in 1946 and won two championships pre superbowl era. So they have a longer history in LA, I think they were formed in 1936 in Cleveland@@myleslong5584 . Same thign with the dodgers right, they started in NY
The LA Colosseum got a nice cleanup / refresh / update to field lighting and team facilities ahead of the planned USC dates to meet NFL standards for the Rams. It was great to see Rams back in the old stadium for a season or two before they went to SoFi stadium.
I feel bad for the Chargers, playing in a soccer stadium and then being the little brother to the Rams at the new stadium. Chargers need to go back to San Diego where they are beloved. L.A. doesn't need two teams.
4 year after the Rams went back to LA and sued NFL and won the lawsuit,the city of St Louis bounce back when they landing a MLS ⚽ Team in late August of 2019 and builted CityPark the stadium of home of the soon to be MLS Cup Playoff bound St Louis City SC. Two months before St Louis got the MLS team, the St Louis Blues of the NHL,won the Stanley Cup over the Boston Bruins
If I lived in Missouri I would not watch the NFL anymore after this. Their are a lot of good sports to watch. They don't have the hype but are just as good. Another thing is that nobody remembers why everyone left LA in the first place. Fair weather fans. Some people never learn.
The move to LA was never about the fans it was always about money. The NFL wanted a team there so they could host events and Super Bowls. Part of the deal the Rams made with the league was they built a TV studio for the league and let them use it for free. St. Louis was nothing more than the sacrificial lamb in the leagues quest to get to LA
They asked a buddy of mine back in 2012/13 if he'd be willing to move to LA. He was a back-up Rampage (team mascot) and could of been the full timer if things worked out.
I am a proud St. Louisan but never caught on to the Rams. I have extended family in Kansas City and when my parents got together, my dad gave up the Royals and adopted the Cardinals and my mom, who never really cared much for the football Cardinals, adopted the Chiefs to cheer for, so I've always been a Chiefs fan. With no literal dog in the "Rams leaving" fight, I honestly didn't care if they ended up going, but damn did that ownership group do STL dirty. Screw them. And if I wasn't such a big Chiefs fan, I would have stopped watching the NFL all together with the way it was handled. Everyone clearly knew that they left for the money and the money only, and the NFL helped them do it...because of the money. I'm super thrilled that a-hole Kronke specifically stated that STL was "not a 3 team city" in his scathing report on the viability of STL as a continued home. Now we have STL City SC, that has a season ticket line literally decades long, to shove in his face. And yeah, I know MLS is not nearly as big as the NFL, but it still feels good. We support our teams when they care about us.
@@luke-i1w You got the point. CVC didn’t keep up with their promise and the Rams were able to go to Year to Year lease because of the CVC ineptitude and incompetence. Your own city failed you
@@1999bill1999 It was a crappy promise they had to make to get a team anyway because the NFL screwed them out of the expansion team that became the Jaguars (STL Stallions memorabilia was already made). Was it the right thing to do? No. Can I blame them for making such a stupid promise? Also, no. All government officials are idiots, so yes, they painted themselves into a corner by having a half built stadium and no team. The NFL sure as hell didn't help out the situation though. And STL had plans made to build a brand new stadium with their portion of the money all but collected, which met the criteria of not allowing the team to move based on the NFL's own relocation guidelines. Kronke (and Goodell) still shat all over it and the city as he was allowed to leave. The league then admitted that allowing the Rams to leave STL was wrong by settling out of court with the city just so they wouldn't get the huge and publicly viewable black eye that a drawn out court case would have given them. Take it from someone who saw it happen with his neighbors...Stan Kronke doesn't give two shits about you or any other fan out in LA. He just cares that you have more money in your pocket than the citizens of a "flyover" state.
It is so weird that teams move from city to city in USA. Flamengo from Brazil is in Rio de Janeiro since 1895, Real Madrid in Madrid since 1890, Manchester City in Manchester for long years. As a football ⚽️ fan, I’ve never seen any news saying teams would move city
What if he just say we leaving St Louis and returning to Los Angeles in the first place and that nothing St Louis can do about it and also say to St Louis don't put any money up to keep us because we gone or do anything you can keep the Lomdardi Trophy and the Banners i paying for ours own Stadium in Los Angeles and win ours own Championship in Los Angeles how things would be if he said and do that
College football proves that you don't have to get a new stadium all the time and in fact it's better when you don't. Think about the most iconic stadium in the NFL. Green Bay is old AF same thing with arrow head and Fenway Park in the MLB.
Syracuse University attempted to get a stadium, off campus, in the north end of the city, due to the Dome being too small. The mayor rejected it. The school then renovated the Dome and changed to JMA, dropping the 40-year Carrier name.
The funny part after Sofi Stadium was built. 49er, Eagle, Steeler, Cowboy, and Brown fans fill Sofi Stadium 80-20% in favor of their teams and not the Rams, where in St.Louis that was not the issue. When they were in St.Louis the Rams issue was the amount of fans, and the amount of $$$$. The Battlehawks in the XFL wont have the issue of fans or $$$$. They only have the issue of league $$$$. The Battlehawks are the draw of the league, and the$$$ of the league, they are worth the price of admission alone.
You really think kroenke cares what color jerseys are in the stands? All those raider, cowboys and whiner fans buy beer to gusto. Kroenke wins regardless. He making a killen in LA with concerts and other events. SoFi is a gold mine for him.
I even heard that when they moved from LA to st.louis they were always going to go back to LA. You can see it in the contract that st.louis sign. The main stipulation was that the Edward Jones Dome had to be in the top 10 of NFL Stadium.
Thanks for this. I have been pissed at the NFL for years since the relocation. Seeing that Kroneke had to pay through the nose (even though he can afford it) did my heart good. A replacement franchise would have been interesting to have, but I think St. Louis can do without it. The Cards, Blues and MLS is fine for a city that seems to be hemorrhaging population.
With so many games on TV with various cable packages, fans can just pick their favourite team, it doesn't have to be in their "home" town. Besides going to games isn't such a great experience any more. High costs and traffic, unless you're a real like the stadium atmosphere. Might as stay at home or go to a bar with friends to enjoy the game and multiple games at the same time.
Thank you! I couldn’t agree more! Why pay your tax dollars to help billionaires get richer by financing stadiums you receive no economic benefit from? You can turn on your TV or streaming device and watch games from virtually any sport, in any city. And going to games in person is a cost-prohibitive and time consuming endeavor for many people and families. I grew up in Saint Louis and my favorite sport is NBA basketball. I enjoyed going to Cardinals games growing up, but attending sporting events was in no way even among the top 100 most important things to my existence. I now live in metro Atlanta and I sure as hell don’t root for the Hawks. I’ve had no problem enjoying being a fan remotely. Sports teams are great, but at what cost are they worth having in a city? The relationship, as with any business and consumer, should be mutually beneficial.
A good follow-up video would be on the successful start of MLS in St Louis this year 2023. Apparently planned along side the potential Rams football stadium, it may have gotten a long term boost by the Rams departing. eventually building a larger soccer stadium than originally planned, I'm not a soccer fan by any means but these combined stories seem like a sure fire way to turn St Louis into a rabid soccer city that puts NFL football in the rear view mirror. (and maybe convert the local sports scene too given MLS's usual involvement with local clubs...) I can only speculate if some of that $790M got directed to this but otherwise looks like it was done w/o taxpayer money: another reason to kick the NFL outta there. Also, National Rent-a-car was still involved and now has part of the ownership of the soccer team and stadium, so National Rent-a-car field was still created but for soccer, not pro football.
It also helps the new MLS team in St Louis that there is a rich history of soccer in the area as the University of St Louis has won multiple NCAA titles & the Stars played in the NASL from 1966-1977 using mostly local players.
The financial studies have been conducted. It turns out it’s never beneficial economically for citizens when municipalities pay for stadiums. It never works out for anyone except the richest guy in town (the team owner)
@JQUE94 you are 100% correct. Anyone who's spent anytime in LA knows that city only has a loyal fanbase to three teams-the Dodgers, Lakers and Raiders. If the Raiders switch locations with the Rams or Chargers and moved back to LA LA would be "Raider Nation". Fact. Nobody knows or cared about Kroenke in LA, nobody showed up for the Rams Super Bowl parade either. Two years ago I was stuck in traffic on my way to Dodger game and street vendors were selling Dodgers and Raiders merch to people stuck in Dodger Stadium traffic.
@@tomdulle1707 My pops is from LA and grew up in the 70's and 80's as a youngin so he got to see the glory years and the solid years in the 90's as well
@@tomdulle1707 I was in LA in the 70s, and the Rams owned LA, they were far bigger than the dodgers and the pre Showtime Lakers. They were bigger than the Raiders and they was none of the gang shit in their fan base. Fact.
@@mreppen1People who grew up in the 70's and 80's in Los Angeles were Happy to finally see all 3 teams Rams,Dodgers,and Lakers wins World Championship in a 16 months spans between 2020-2022 seeing their dreams come true to them
I would say the same for Cleveland, but at least they got the Browns back even though it's really in name only since the original Browns are now the Ravens. Before any trolls comments, I am aware of the argeement. When Art Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore, the team had to be renamed the Ravens because everything related to Browns franchise had to stay in Cleveland, outside of the players. As a result, Cleveland was without an NFL team for a few years.
I'm a Browns fan and I must say that we still don't really have a team and definitely haven't for most of my life. It's been a decades-long dog and pony show lol.
I'd think its origins started back when the Rams and Raiders left Los Angeles. Back then cities were happy to fund new stadiums (with conditions unfavorable to the cities) to get a team. Los Angeles wouldn't do that, they told the Rams that they would be willing to help expedite stadium development but not give it funding guarantees, exclusive rights, etc. After negotiations the Rams left for St. Louis and L.A. was left without a team, but the city held its ground. Eventually the NFL couldn't leave the L.A. market without a team and Kronke brought the Rams back, though not in the City of Los Angeles but the City of Inglewood on the site of the defunct Hollywood Park horseracing track. No public funds spent on the stadium beyond the regular public works additions to the area and assistance with expedited city processes to help it along. So both St. Louis and Los Angeles/Inglewood beat the NFL. Now Steve Balmer is building a new arena to house his Los Angeles Clippers almost right next door to the Ram's SoFi stadium, and doing it without public funds.
When the Rams and Raiders left LA at around the same time it was miserable being a football fan in LA. Then LA didn't have a team for so many years it became a basketball/baseball town. The Rams and Chargers have a hard time now getting people in seats. Not even a Superbowl win by the Rams got LA to become a football town. The Rams should have stayed in St. Louis and the Chargers in San Diego.
And what has ST LOUIS done with NFL"s Money, Absolutely NOTHING to improve our city. I just wish we had another NFL team. instead. We were literally the worst team in the league for 15+ years after GSOT and we all still supported them, Jeff Fisher was hired to move the rams just like he did with the Oilers, then Houston got an expansion team. Why not St Louis too?
What’s crazy is that the legal counsel who signed off on the settlement on behalf of the Mayor’s office was a former employee of the Blitz law firm. We for sure could have gotten more, but the lawyers wanted to ensure that they got their cut. Makes sense, but damn what could have been.
I don't think the fan support would have been there at the time, everyone here was pissed at Kroenke and the NFL. In an ideal world the Chargers should have moved here, they have no business being in LA
Or maybe they should've gotten a 1995 expansion team. St. Louis had plans to get a new team that year and brand it as the "Stallions" Instead, Jacksonville and Charlotte got the new teams. As it turned out, the Jaguars considered moving to LA themselves. Now the rumor is----although maybe not very serious---is for the Jags to move to London, UK.
They lawyers took the case and weren’t charging the city unless they won money. Lawyers did t want a team. The lawyers wanted money. The city simply said go get them if you think you can get them. And they did and they won. This wasn’t never about another team. It was about the lawyers trying to get rich and the city gave them their blessing. Of course the city got their cut but each lawyer got over $100m or something close. Hat tip to the lawyers for taking a chance.
My family and I love to visit St. Louis several times a year, as a quick vaca. It is a great city that has a lot to offer for the family to enjoy. When the Rams left it saddened me that the Chiefs didn’t have a cross state rival, and until a NEW team can enter the league, we welcome all St. Louis residents to continue wearing red and gold for the Chiefs. Actually was nice to see a few shirts there when we visited the Lou a few weeks ago!
The Rams never should have left Los Angeles in the first place but St. Louis sold their soul to lure the Rams. There was an out clause which gave the Rams permission to leave St. Louis if the stadium (Edward Jones Dome) wasn't one of the top tiered stadiums in the league which it wasn't. Georgia Frontierie moved the team to St. Louis because of money and the sweet heart deal her hometown offered her. I think in the back of her mind she always knew the Rams would be worth more in the LA market and Kronkie knew this as well. Georgia Frontierie played both Los Angeles and St. Louis for all they got. She had 7 husbands and 2 husbands died in "accidents" especially her 6th husband Carroll Rosenbloom whom she inherited the Rams from. When she died she was buried in Los Angeles. So did she ever care for St. Louis?
Well said. It is why only the new stadium actuallly approved for building in St. Louis can be discussed for St. Louis but owner contribution in line with the rest of the league was still needed. That is why the NFL Relocation committee recommended the Rams stay in St. Louis and it was not about The Dome. A better resolultion would have been for the NFL to give St. Louis an expansion team. An owner would have been found for its lower scale stadium.
It's not St. Louis' fault that the dome got so outdated so quickly. Even the new stadium they were going to build already would be outdated; just look at Soldier Field.
@@halincadenza7165 Absolutely agree. But what the NFL did was wrong. They should've had to replace the team. Hell, make Khan move the Jags there. They'd do better than in Jacksonville
@@halincadenza7165 We still deserve an NFL team over some cities that have one right now though. Honestly the football cardinals should've never left in the first place
I heard there was talks around that time of Rush Limbaugh owning the St Louis Rams and (as a joke on his show) renaming it the Saint Louis Rush. I heard seriously The Rush Limbaugh deal was really going to go through until the players objected. How does that fit in this story?
In addition to being an extremely racist POS, Rush wasn't going to be able to buy the team anyway. Just ask Shad Khan about that right of first refusal that Stan exercised.
The thing with St. Louis is that it’s not a football city. It’s a baseball city because of the cities rich baseball history with dating back to the early days of baseball in the late 19th century. What I’m trying to say that unlike most cities in America, baseball is still our past time in St. Louis
Easily my favorite part of St. Louis City’s incredible inaugural season was joining in with Rapids fans for a hearty “Kroenke sucks” chant. Although, really we should thank Kroenke; we probably wouldn’t have pursued MLS as aggressively as we did without his assholery.
Wow… an MLS team. Those St Louis people are real awesome! They boo the NFL and cheer on soccer… you aren’t an American. Go watch those fairies play soccer during your 10 man circle jerk.
Born and mostly raised in this city.... UGH where do i begin!?? If they received all that money, yet the majority of the streets and other infrastructures like the I-64 westbound at grand and downtown near the enterprise center all the way to the river! That's just for starters... (On my father's side) I'm a blood relative to Her Honor Mayor Tishaura O. Jones. I have never met her, but I hope she's working on something good for my Hometown. I really do love it from Tower Grove to Forest to Hyde Park. From The River road to the end of the River des Peres and all the people whom I love and care about dearly, but it is a very difficult city in which to live. Yet again, sooooo many reasons. Number one reason... The psychological state of its long term inhabitants has yet to change since the mid 1960's. That in itself is enough to deter me from wanting to EVER AGAIN live there long term. If you are from here you may get this. Have you ever left for years on end then come back to visit to see roughly EVERYONE (whom you know) doing basically the SAME thing they were doing when you left? One month there feels like one and a quarter months sometimes more. Secondly, most people who were born here, NEVER LEAVE or leave and come back VERY soon afterwards. This is a former glorious city sadly most of it was torn down or altered after the World's Fair in 1904. Sadly It's the City That Got Stuck In Time. PS: There is actually a structure that is to blame for this anomaly, it also affects the weather and that is another discussion for another time.
You also didn't mention the problem that almost 500 million of the 790 paid to the city of St.Louis is not accounted for. If the city is going to be so inclined to be corrupt, than im even more happy we came back home to LA.
shame there's barely any Rams fans in LA. You'd think that winning a SuperBowl in their new home would generate more support from LA fans, but they still get absolutely swamped by opposing fans every "home" game, it seems
I'm in Jacksonville, FL. I've long believed that the Jaguars would eventually move to St. Louis. However, after seeing this I doubt St. Louis will ever have another NFL team.
This coming from a Cubs fan: good on you, St Louis. You’ve been burned by the biggest sporting organization in the US, not once but twice, and decided, “You know what? F*ck you, too.” That’s an extra spicy level of hate that I honestly commend.
I spent the majority of my life in St. Louis and grew up with the Cardinals and then the Rams came in (which no one in LA was trying to save btw). After the way the fix was in to move the Rams back to SoCal, I was hanging on as a fan. “Don’t let Goodell, JJ, and Kroenke steal football from you “ we were told. Well, I’m done with the NFL. Too many ungrateful players, too much virtue signaling by the league, etc. I enjoy football in other ways now.
There was a concerted effort to keep the Rams in LA. The fact that LA residents didn't want to pay extra taxes to fund a millionaire to build a new stadium just shows that we weren't as gullible as some other cities.
They also kept praising this Loser, Pathetic Quarterback, that couldn't throw a Touchdown for his own team if he tried, and wouldn't replace him, or get a new one no matter how much St. Louis called for his head!
The NFL never awarded St Louis a Super Bowl game even back them TWD were a Dome Stadium because of their feeling about Georgia Frontiere and the move to St Louis
Frankly, The rams built that new stadium with private funds.. why could they not even think about that in St. Louis? I was glad St. Louis came out on top and don’t blame them for not caring about the NFL… Sadly for Kronkie… I think he will rue the day he moved the team back to LA… Let’s face it.. LA had two teams when the Rams and Raiders in the same offseason left… now they have 2 teams again.. did nobody learn from the Raiders and Rams the first time? And the Chargers… I expect half their fanbase is pissed because they also didn’t deal very nicely with their old hometown…
When the Raiders move to Los Angeles people were talking about that but Al Davis were never a team player and didn't care or listening to his fellow owners about that
Sure all you need to do is find a way for your kitchen to help drive millions of dollars into the local economy every year, provide jobs and attract tourists. Whilst also giving the city free national exposure. I'm rooting for ya! Go get that kitchen bro.
@@louiscypher4186 drive millions of dollars in while Taking HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS PROBABLY BILLIONS out. What a great deal you've got yourself! No wonder the average American is poorer then ever 😂
As a native Southern Californian, I remember that it was Georgia Frontiere who wanted to take the Rams out of Los Angeles where they had been since 1946, to a smaller St. Louis market primarily because she wanted to retire back home in St. Louis. As a human being, I totally understand this, however, she didn't have to take our team with her. I think it is ironic that a native of St. Louis, Stan Kroenke, returned the team which was taken from us after the 1994 season. I am sorry St. Louis had to get caught in the middle of this, but now they know how many of us in Southern California felt after the Rams were taken from us. It hurt beyond words.
Yet Georgia chose to be buried in Los Angeles when she died in 2008. She never really left LA as she always kept a home in Malibu as did Stan Kroenkie by the way.
As a native St. Louisan, I can attest that the general sentiment toward the NFL today is "go suck it!" We don't want another team. We've been screwed twice. Most folks forget that Bill Bidwell relocated the Cardinals to AZ much the same way, the difference being that the Cardinals were such a terrible team that we were happy to see them leave. Some area residents have overlooked what happened with the Rams and now cheer for the Chiefs, but many more locals don't even turn on their TVs on Sunday afternoon. Are we a football town? Ask the XFL.
May the Battlehawks entertain the citizens of St. Louis until the days of the USA are no more. Ha ha. And I pray blessings over you and the people of your city. St. Louis will always have a special place in my heart ever since I went on a mission trip to the Dream Center there in 2019. :)
I'm of the opinion that St. Louis won't get another NFL team until Goodell is out as commissioner as well as certain owners (you know of whom I speak). Further, it should not be another relocated team, as the Cardinals (Chicago) and Rams (Cleveland by way of LA) were. In the meantime, Ka-Kaw is the Law, and I'm hoping for more good things from the BattleHawks.
@@skidawg22 Agree that it shouldn't be a relocation team, if at all. It would have to be a new expansion, which is tough since the league isn't in expansion mode now that they have a tidy 32 teams. But I'm okay with no team except the Battlehawks.
@soulcabby the NFL would never allow the Bears to leave Chicago. As for the Jags they’re spending hundreds of millions to renavate their current stadium so they are going anywhere either.
@soulcabbyyou’re on crack if you think the bears are leaving the Chicago area. They might leave the city itself but not to anywhere outside Chicagoland. The jaguars aren’t leaving either, they’re getting a new stadium
GOOD FOR St. Louis!!! This BEST sums up EVERYTHING, "The answer to EVERY question you ask is MONEY!"
Right. They can each save a dime, and watch the franchise move to a better stadium and be super bowl champs again. Having a champion in your city is not worth a dime.
OKIE DOKIE!!!!!!@@derwolfpack3599
Guess Rams moving back to LA makes sense, but chargers should've stayed in San Diego
Couldn’t agree more 🥲
I agree with that one
San Diego had a chance to keep the Chargers and they voted no.
You know the Chargers value by moving to LA according to Forbes just about doubled. Raiders value has more than doubled since movie to Vegas.
@@DeadAir21 That’s an oversimplification.
I am also a proud St. Louisan. I am a Battlehawks season ticket holder and went to Rams games when they were in town. It never felt like a “win”, losing the NFL is devastating for a city. Especially one with such a rich history in North American sports.
That's how it feels for Atlanta with the NHL. Both cities have been screwed twice by ownership.
Sorry fellas, but St. Louis is a baseball town, and Atlanta definitely _isn't_ a hockey town. 😄
@@scarpfishCan’t speak on the Atlanta Flames, but in the case of both the Atlanta Thrashers and St. Louis Rams + St. Louis Cardinals the teams were absolutely terrible and ran awfully. Of course they didn’t succeed. You can’t blame that on the fanbase or city. Do we think the Golden Knights would’ve been as successful in Vegas had they not been instantly successful? I don’t.
The Rams were bad in St. Louis after like 2005 and historically bad in the 2010s. It was pretty clear to everyone here that it was intentional by Kroenke. It’s no coincidence that within a few years of moving from STL to LA that the Rams won a Super Bowl and were suddenly willing to build a competitive team. The Rams were plenty successful in St. Louis when it seemed like management and ownership was actually attempting to put a good product out on the field.
what rich history stl had in football besides the 1 year of greatest show on turf
@@Fatta007 I didn’t say a rich history of football, I said a rich history of North American sports
I went to the last Rams game. The fact the fans fought the bitter end for the squad speaks to how dirty we got done by not just the NFL but by those in charge at the time of the city and state.
now this is an accurate statement, i totally agree.
That's mostly correct. Thanks for doing a great job on this.
For more detailed information, the sports law podcast Conduct Detrimental did a number of episodes on the St. Louis lawsuit. I highly recommend checking those out.
Stan Kroenke is very hated among many people in St. Louis. Almost as much as Balimore hated Robert Irsay and Cleveland hated Art Modell.
Stan's also very much hated in North London by Arsenal fans (the SOB owns Arsenal). I've heard but can't confirm that he's also hated in Denver (he sold the Nuggets and Avalanche to his wife, and owns Colorado Rapids).
Georgia Frontiere is hated in So California too, even though she’s been dead for 15 years:
@@skidawg22we dislike Kroenke in Denver because his company Altitude will not make a deal with Comcast to allow broadcasting of the regular season Nuggets and Avalanche games, so 90%+ of the fanbase in Colorado can’t even watch the games. This has been going on for several years now. Both companies are greedy but Comcast is willing to make a deal but Kroenke won’t budge. It’s irritating.
@@skidawg22 Kroenke may have "sold" the teams to his wife, but he was on the ice to hoist the cup 2 years ago and handed out rings aa few months ago at the nuggs banner game. As annoying as it is to not have the games on Comcast - i think most of us in Denver are happy with Kroenke ownership and the championships he's brought us
Well, he is currently loved by North London and Arsenal 😅😂
It doesn’t matter how successful a team or loyal a fan base is. The NFL will do whatever it wants to do. The Eagles almost moved before Norman took over in 1985. This was a historic franchise that might not have had a ton of success in the post Super Bowl era but there always is a loyal following and a season ticket waiting list decades long.
Wow, that is wild, I didn't know there was ever a threat of them moving! As much as I cheer for the Eagles to lose each and every game they play, I could not imagine the NFL without the PHILADELPHIA Eagles! Sincerely, a Cowboys fan.
@@cardboard87 yeah one of the previous Owners Lenard Tose had a lot of gambling debts. The guy who he made a deal with to get him out of debt, let him maintain ownership, but the team would have to be in Phoenix. In fact the only way Philadelphia found out was because a reporter in Phoenix broke the story early and knew a lot of the local politicians.
The Green Bay Packers are pretty much the only team I could guarantee you Will never move
@@coryb8432 I wouldn’t say never.
@@V-max97
It’s in the team charter that they can never leave the state of Wisconsin.
Well done sir. A very good piece.
The fact that teams can simply change cities in the NFL really just tell us how souless NFL really is
It’s a good thing if the city/state is dog shit you should be able to leave
It's not just the NFL.
@@WOLFXJ13 When the taxpayers of the crap city have heavily subsidized the sports team's play palace, just for the owner to tank the team, so no one shows up at games, so the owner has an excuse to blackmail the city for a newer nicer play palace or treatens to relocate, no the team shouldn't be able to leave, at least not without cleaning up the mess they caused.
@@WOLFXJ13No, a team should be a representative of the people and soul of a city. Not some corporation who’s only in it for the money and will jump ship the money they smell money elsewhere. The NFL is a souless plastic league. The only team with any real connection to its city are the Packers due to being a fan owned team. All teams should be fan owned, but the money grubbing NFL won’t allow it.
@@scarpfish No but there have been far more relocations in the NFL over the years than in baseball or the NBA. In fact the only relocation recently in baseball were the Montreal Expos now they could change soon with Oakland.
Thank You for posting this video 👍 I did not know about any of this leagle stuff!
As a Lifelong St. Louis Resident, seeing my city get screwed out of teams twice was bad, but the way Kroenke went about moving the Rams was simply Villainous. He actively badmouthed us as "not Sports-friendly". Which is ludicrous, considering that:
a) The Cardinals draw 3 million every year,
b) the Blues always have a solid season ticket base and frequently sell out,
c) The Football Cardinals typical went 4-9-1, hosted 1 playoff game in 25 years, and still hit 90%+ of stadium capacity despite being rarely competitive, and
d) the Rams had a 5 year record of 15-65, worst in NFL History!
Maybe provide a competitive team and see how they get supported. The Battlehawks are a prime example.
The only way I'd want an expansion team is if the owners were forced to sign a 99 year lease with a $10 billion penalty for breaking it.
Just be happy you didn’t have to pay for a stadium with your tax money. These greedy corporate welfare clowns want to sucker people into paying for things they can afford and yet still pay no taxes on their revenue.
I don't understand why a city would want a football team. Waste of time, waste of money, waste of space, waste of energy, waste of traffic every sunday.
I always laugh my ass off every time someone says St. Louis "got screwed out of two teams." Where do you think those teams came from? Were the Cardinals and Rams expansion teams? Original franchises in your city? No, on both counts! Truth is the Cardinals were stolen from Chicago and the Rams were stolen from Los Angeles. You hypocrites had no problem when an owner of a team left another city because they thought they could get a better deal in yours, yet when those same teams move on to yet another city to get an even better deal you play the victim and claim you were screwed. Truth is, St. Louis lost TWO NFL teams it couldn't hold on to, and after the lawsuit you will never get another one. Deal with it.
@@MarkMay-cr6bvthe difference is that Chicago and LA would have got a team one way or another. LA is too big a market to not have one and Chicago had the bears. St. Louis isn’t as big a market so it hurts way more to have the team leave.
@@MarkMay-cr6bv The Rams are not from LA either. They were founded in Cleveland.
Yay for St. Louis! I'm tired of pro sports teams and corporations strong arming cities and states into tax reparations and abatements leaving the tax paying citizens to make up the difference plus pay taxes when you purchase as in TIFs.
The NFL Relocation committee recommended the Rams stay in St. Louis based upon its new stadium proposed for building but still needed owner contribution. As a result of the St. Louis lawsuit it was learned owner approval for Stan Kroenke to move only was approved once Kroenke signed an indemnification agrrement to compensate NFL owners from any St. Louis lawsuits. The St. Louis lawsuit seemed like a long shot but did settle out of court. A better resolution would have been for the NFL to give St. Louis an expansion team if they wanted to appease Stan Kroenke who did have a few owners back him. Surprising to me it was just released in the media St. Louis TV viewership of the NFL is on par with Kansas City even though there is no longer an NFL team. I am not one of them but do follow the BattleHawks and Mizzou. You did a great job with this video. Your information also came out in a large article by the St. Louis Post Dispatch following the lawsut settlement. This article did an even more thorough job including when Kroenke years prior purchased the land for SOFI and his E-MAILS with other owners and Goodell.
Was hoping you’d drop a battle hawks reference somewhere in there 😅
I was able to win high school state championships three years in a row inside of the dome before the Rams left St. Louis. It was awesome but the Edward Jones Dome was definitely not up to par for a professional football team.
Watching from St Louis
St Louis didn't "win", St Louis blinked. Kroenke and the league were scheduled to go to court in St Louis the week of the Super Bowl, being played in Kroenke's new stadium featuring Kroenke's LA Rams. This was about to overshadow the league's marquee event and could have been devastating for the league. Kroenke, would have been compelled to testify as well as the NFL commissioner and some of the other league owners, most likely including Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, who helped push through the Rams move with other league owners. In exchange Jone's construction company got the contract to build Kroenke's So-Fi Stadium, so he would have been in big trouble as well. This had the makings of a 2 BILLION dollar settlement that would have shaken the league and made Stan Kroenke a pariah (if he isn't already) among league owners and would have forever changed how cities and leagues handle team relocations. Instead, Stan paid 570 million dollars-Kroenke is worth 39 BILLION. In other words, he paid a parking ticket. St Louis had Kroenke and the NFL by the short hairs but they let these scum bags off the hook. I promise you the NFL breathed a sigh of relief the day they wrote that check to St Louis.
Yeah. I remember reading something about Jones being in the middle of it. That same article hinted that the rest of the owners were worried that the lawsuit could force them to open their books, something none of them are keen on since one can only imagine how many "hidden fees" and other money laundering schemes are wrapped up in these stadiums. The cozy relationship the league has with gambling houses may have even come out. Strange things happen when people get on the stand. Not saying it would have played out that way, but the money the league declares is only a fraction of the revenue they generate. As I recall, the other owners were pretty pissed off about the way the Rams owner handled the entire affair.
@@itinerantpatriot1196 you are 100% correct. Only the Raiders and Chargers voted against the Rams move. Only the Rams were given permission to move. Behind closed doors Kroenke threatened to sue his fellow owners if they didn't go along- a bluff I'm sure but it worked. Jones, who is an LA native and his cowboys train in Thousand Oaks ca outside LA, which the St Louis Rams did their final season i believe. Hmmmm...wonder why? Jones carried Kroenke's water. The night of the fateful NFL vote, Kroenke was nowhere to be found, however, I'm sure you can find video somewhere, someone got a camera on Jerry Jones, who was asked if St Louis is an NFL city, to which he replied "St Louis IS and NFL city." When the league was going to lose in St Louis court, the other NFL owners panicked. It was reported Kroenke sent his attorney in (Kroenke doesn't like to get his hands dirty) to tell the other owners Stan was going to negotiate his own settlement with St Louis and the other owners were going to get sued and dragged into court one by one. Not wanting that to happen they came up with the joint payment out of court to St Louis. This is why St Louis and its attorneys had no spine. They could have and would have gotten twice what they got if they had better legal representation.
😢... so sad, but true... I hate thinking about how we got FUCKED BY OUR POLITICIANS AND THE NFL... SMH
1/78th of a person’s net worth is not a parking ticket unless you’re net worth is $6,000.
St Louis fuck up and found out that the NFL is a business like any other, you don't like it that's on you 🤷♂️
Great video as usual!
The city of St Louis could buy the naming rights to the St Louis battle Hawks and pay the expansion team fee and have a permanent team. The city can qualify for infrastructure grants and loans if they spend money on that stuff. Due ownership sale like green Bay does, stadium naming rights with votes from local voters, SSL sales and surrounding urban development leases. That should give them enough money.
I grew up in Maryland - the Colts left. I lived, for many years, in St. Louis. The Cards left, the Rams came and went. Look at the Cleveland Ravens, the "your name here" Rams, and so on. The NFL has no business attaching the names of cities to teams. The franchises are vagabonds, perpetually looking to "monkey branch" to a better deal. Not only are the players free agents, but the teams are as well. I would rather burn the money than buy a ticket to an NFL game.
Who are/ were the Cleveland Ravens?
@@robertewalt7789the original Cleveland Browns franchise. They moved to Baltimore and Cleveland sued the nfl to retain the Browns franchise. The Browns1.0 rebranded to the Ravens and the Cleveland Browns 2.0 were an expansion team in 1999 (I think that was the year. So much shifted around in the 90s/early 00s)
it’s sad too because it’s usually the struggling cities that see their teams leave. it’s like a visual, emotional and visceral demonstration of your hometown losing national relevance. it’s not just about the sport
The NFL never wanted the Rams to leave LA the wanted the Raiders to leave LA
Put the Raiders back Oakland
And yet the Raiders have a notable following in LA to this day just from their brief time in the city
Raiders are not moving back. There value according to Forbes has nearly tripled since moving to Vegas.
Rams were in Anaheim when they left Cali
The Raiders should have moved back to LA, and the Chargers should have stayed in San Diego.
In 1993 I was a 6yr old lad when I fell in love with the game of football due to this guy called Jerome Bettis who was drafted by the Los Angeles Rams.
A Los Angeleno at my first game was hooked from the very start so my devastation was unfathomable when my rams left only two years later.
I didn’t know how teams could just leave. I didn’t believe it. I was told the owner passed & it didn’t makes sense to me. I didn’t understand widow tax exemptions or care that Georgia was from St Louis so that’s where she wanted to relocate them.
I felt terrible. But nonetheless stayed a fan. (Still have old St Louis rams gear)
That said it’s unfortunate for the ppl of St Louis. Especially for the 6yr old kid who fell in love with the greatest show on turf. But business is business. Glad both cities were able to experience SB wins in this lifetime.
Great upload.
It always comes down to money, btw LOVE the vid, I just wish you had gone into more detail about some of these practices. I didn't know the NFL lent money to these cities (or owners) to build the stadiums. Very interesting...more vids like this with more deets plz!
And now St. Louis has one of eight teams in the UFL, which will be successful. The Battlehawks are already a beloved team and support will continue to grow.
BattleHawks led the UFL in attendance, averaging 34K in '24. The next closest was DC Defenders at 14K. It's not even close, and a direct result of the NFL's mistreatment of St. Louis.
XFL team was a great success last year also
I'm not gonna lie, a stadium on the river banks versus the weird video game stadium they have in LA sounds so much cooler
I respectfully disagree. Thing is, the NFL keeps their books closed so we don’t know if the settlement actually harmed them. Also, these non-disclosure agreements keeps their secrets private. A lot of this needs to come to light someday!
Every owner had to pay 7.5 million each and kronke over 500 mil so id say it had some impact, the books are closed but not the settlement
Of course it's a loss for them, $790 million is not pocket change. NFL's revenue in 2021 was 11 billion, now that's the revenue not the profit, the profit will be much less when all is said and done and all the expenses and paychecks are dished out, so ya can bet losing almost 1 billion out of your 11 billion revenue is going to have a good sting especially on Kroenke and rich people also don't like having to pay up any amount of money especially such a large sum.
Is that payout going to cripple or seriously hurt the NFL or Kroenke? No, of course not, but it's definitely a loss for them. If it was just pocket change for them, they wouldn't spend 5 years trying to fight this case and get it tossed, they would settle pretty quickly, but they fought it till the end and finally settled only because fighting on would result in an even bigger loss.
@@tomatoisnotafruit5670 and the NFL will never forget that in future expansion plans or another potential relocation. STL took the money, wonder what the hell they did with it.
@@mreppen1 NFL will never forget what? that they got exposed and had to pay compensation for breaking their own rules?
Why are you trying to make the NFL the victim here lol
@@tomatoisnotafruit5670 my point is the NFL gave the City the money, and they will not forget that fact. STL will never get an NFL team again. STL took the money.
My father used to work for the Rams. He lost his part time job when Kroenke moved ‘em to LA.
I'm not a native, but I've lived in the STL since 76. I loved Big Red football. I was not happy when they left, but I was realistic and understood the business side of sports. When the Rams moved here, I was suspicious once I saw the lease arrangement on the barn...i mean dome.. It seemed to me a short-term rental. I started telling everyone in 99 to enjoy it while it lasts, and everyone thought I was crazy lol. I think it was obvious from the beginning that the Rams were not going to be a staple in the Stl. I'm not bitter or upset about it. We got two superbowl appearances and 1 championship! Life goes on. One thing I'll say about this Midwest city is that there are too many gullible sports fans. They eat up the garbage and bs fed to them by their local sports journalists. The journalists that state the truth don't last long or get delegated to bad time slots on the airwaves and get the least amount of push. Pro sports is business, plane and simple!
The Cards were not originally a St. Louis team. They played in Chicago, long before the Bears.
@mikeinhubcity7433 correct. And the Rams were originally from Cleveland.
According to St. Louis sports historian and author Greg Marecek who has since passed away tthe Cardinals leaving had to do with a clash of the separate St. Louis city and county governments not agreeing on a location for a new football stadium. Bill Bidwell thought Phoenix was right away building him a new stadium but lack of funding there it took 18 years so they played at Arizona State all those years. Attendance was not an issue in St. Louis. I followed them all their years here from 1960-1987 after they moved here from Chicago.
You should do a video about the browns too, they also had some success getting a new franchise and getting to keep records and all history..
Browns/Orioles would be good!
The history should stay with the city. The Browns did it right.
Johnny Unitas belongs to Baltimore, Earl Campbell to Houston.
If greedy owners move, the colors , name and history should stay with the city.
The NFL has no loyalty whatsoever for any city where one of their franchises is located. Except for Green Bay, the Giants, the Jets or Dallas, every team can and will be able to bolt into a “better” city. What’s to stop Miami from being moved to Orlando? Nothing at all. The Saints going to Miami? Nothing at all. It’s at a point where the NFL has no loyalty whatsoever to any metropolitan area where a team is located. MLB steadfastly refuses to allow a team moving out of their current home without a very specific reason. The NBA is like the NFL, a team can move wherever it wants whenever it wants to.
This is because MLB is legally exempt from antitrust laws. These laws make it a lot easier for metropolitan areas to keep their teams. The NFL, NBA and NHL are not exempt from these laws, and must provide guidelines on relocation to provide a fair process for the cities involved as well as keep them out of trouble with the federal government. It's ignoring those guidelines that was the basis for the St. Louis lawsuit. Meanwhile, the Chargers and Raiders were in cities that were unwilling to follow those guidelines, hence why it's a lot easier to say their moves were even more justified than the one being talked about here.
Dolphins will never moved anywhere lol
As a St.Louisan, we beat them for 790 million and there always is football on Saturdays 😁😀😂
I don't care what happens to the 790 million in the city of St.Louis or the lawyers got paid bigly, what I
care about is the city of St.Louis beat the NFL and made all of the owners pay especially Kroenke.
It's about principle, we don't need the NFL. It always was about the money Kroenke was going to make
moving the team back to LA but we got a piece of the pie too. The NFL isn't undefeated any longer in relocation.
It hasn't been for a long time. Al Davis beat them in an anti trust suit in 1982 to move the Raiders to Los Angeles.
@@ejd53 my point was a "city" finally beat the NFL.
Oakland needs to do the same thing to the NFL
Now look at us. Four sports teams, one being an original MLB team and the other being a hockey team that's been here since the 60's, along with St. Louis Football being brought back and we just got an MLS team. Kroenke, Goodell, I made sure to buy both of you some kneepads. You'll be there for a while. Hail to the Lou.
And don't forget that the Rams refused to refund licensing fees and pre-paid season tickets to St. Louis fans. Their reasoning: the Rams are still playing, local fans can still attend the home games 2 time zones away.
Great research, bro. Hopefully St Louis gets its own team in the next expansion rather than a transplanted team that would be easy to move away.
Why? Why would somebody move a team to St Louis when they can make way more money elsewhere? I can’t believe you people think the billionaires that own these teams care about your feelings. It’s absolutely ridiculous… “I’m going to buy an NFL team for $7 billion just so St Louis people’s feelings aren’t hurt”
St. Lous didn't roll over or cower at the feet of the NFL. They took them to court and won. As a result, they will never get another NFL team. I firmly believe the NFL is vindictive like that. Look at the way they treated that cameraman in Miami. They needed to beat him down just so they could feel big and important. Good on Hill for basically canceling out their vindictive move.
I certainly believe they'll only come back once Goodell is out as commissioner and certain owners (Stan and Jerry Jones in particular) are dead and gone. Further, it would have to be an expansion team. No more relocated teams (people tend to forget that the Cardinals were originally a Chicago team, while the Rams were from Cleveland by way of LA).
I still have relative living in St. Louis and my cousin is still a Rams fan. He said alot of sports fans in St. Louis is still hurt by Stan Kroenke relocating the Rams but that wasn't the worst thing he committed. It was the bashing of St. Louis sport fans and how he portray the city as the worst place for an NFL team to play for. When it was exposed about what he said, Stan became the most hated man in the city.
yeah, we do- Cleveland
St Louis fans are the most smug, obnoxious people on the planet. They act like they invented baseball. You’d think they win the WS every year with how these people talk… they have 2 in my lifetime. The Astros won 2 in the last 6 years.
The Blues literally just injured people to win their Stanley Cup, I have never seen the NHL gift wrap a team a SC like that. It was embarrassing. The Blues will never win another SC in your lifetime, I promise. The NHL gave them their one. The Rams fans claim that a Super Bowl was stolen from them by the Patriots, cause they actually had to play the game and weren’t just given the SB trophy.
They don’t even have an NBA team… you guys are great in your own mind.
Hated on two continents. Arsenal fans despite him. I've heard he's not well liked in Denver either, but have yet to get anyone on record about it.
@@josephsmith2417 Show us on the doll where St. Louis sports fans hurt you. The St. Louis Cardinals baseball team has the second most World Series wins of any team (second only to the NY Yankees). Most years they are winners of their division (not that they have much competition from the other teams some years). Are you still mad about that Pujols bomb in Houston in the playoffs? ua-cam.com/video/lsEuTYbDRwE/v-deo.html Or just mad your team cheated to win and got caught? And the Blues weren't even expected to beat Winnipeg in the first round. Or are you mad about the double overtime win the Blues had over Dallas? ua-cam.com/video/v_NQRWPwR3Y/v-deo.html Shit, Bishop is the only reason that game lasted that long. Never mind the SJ Sharks handpass that led to the Sharks win.ua-cam.com/video/lex0ba6F3LY/v-deo.html O'Reilly played with a cracked rib for most the playoffs from an injury he received against Winnipeg. www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/stanley-cup-final-2019-playoff-mvp-ryan-oreilly-played-through-rib-injury/1dveajxk80vaj18wklafm53s59 Hockey is physical sport. Just like when Kadri took out Bennington in the playoffs a couple of years ago. Or when Grant Fuhr was taken out in 1996 when he was backstopping a super team of NHL stars for St. Louis. And the fact that the Patriots recorded the Rams practices to learn the plays seems kinda like cheating of most fans I bet. We get it you don't like St. Louis sports teams. Bias confirmed.
@@josephsmith2417 Ok Stan, we know its you. And not having an NBA team makes them great in my book.
The Cardinals were originally from Chicago before moving to St Louis and then eventually Phoenix.
The Rams were originally based in Los Angeles before moving the team to St Louis. They moved back to Los Angeles in 2015.
The Chargers were originally based in Los Angeles. They played one season in Los Angeles before moving to San Diego. When San Diego would not approve a new stadium for the Chargers, the team asked to move back to LA.
The Raiders were originally based in Oakland. In 1984 they moved to Los Angeles and in 1995 moved back to Oakland. In 2015 they were among 3 teams trying to move back to Los Angeles. The Chargers. RAIDERS, and the Rams. Only 2 teams would be approved to move, leaving the Raiders as the odd team out. Now they are in Las Vegas.
Rams started in Cleveland,Mr. H.
True but they moved to LA in 1946 and won two championships pre superbowl era. So they have a longer history in LA, I think they were formed in 1936 in Cleveland@@myleslong5584 . Same thign with the dodgers right, they started in NY
The fact St. Louis even offered a new stadium knowing Stan wanted to move shows that he did the city dirty.
I enjoy Watching some older Madden games with St. Louis Rams and their old Dome Stadium 🏟️ just shows the evolution of the nfl.
The LA Colosseum got a nice cleanup / refresh / update to field lighting and team facilities ahead of the planned USC dates to meet NFL standards for the Rams. It was great to see Rams back in the old stadium for a season or two before they went to SoFi stadium.
I feel bad for the Chargers, playing in a soccer stadium and then being the little brother to the Rams at the new stadium. Chargers need to go back to San Diego where they are beloved. L.A. doesn't need two teams.
Why not? L.A. has the Clippers and Lakers, Angels and Dodgers and Kings and Ducks. Besides, the Chargers started in L.A.
@@karlc2869pretty sure the clippers are about to get a stadium separate from the lakers now
@@ASN_JAY Yep.
@@karlc2869Chargers started in LA but only stayed for one year
Thanks, Forgotten Places, for this post.
I used to believe that lawyers were only in it for themselves.
I have changed my mind. ....
4 year after the Rams went back to LA and sued NFL and won the lawsuit,the city of St Louis bounce back when they landing a MLS ⚽ Team in late August of 2019 and builted CityPark the stadium of home of the soon to be MLS Cup Playoff bound St Louis City SC. Two months before St Louis got the MLS team, the St Louis Blues of the NHL,won the Stanley Cup over the Boston Bruins
MLS sucks
STL took a FAT LOSS. 700Mil doesnt make up for losing an NFL franchise.
@@brianwick6782 It's still better than Oakland or San Diego, who - if I may quote Caddyshack - "got nothing and will like it."
Lol no way is an MLS team or stadium worth more than an NFL franchise
@@1999bill1999 because MLS isn't big in America. Soccer is big everywhere else
It’s amazing that I’ve never heard a single word about this. It’s not like we have 5 or 6 full time sports channels on TV or something
San Diego should have done this. Hope they get another team
San Diego did sue. However, it was thrown out of court because of statute of limitations - they waited too long (i.e. after St. Louis settled) to sue.
That's awesome. I love that story!
If I lived in Missouri I would not watch the NFL anymore after this. Their are a lot of good sports to watch. They don't have the hype but are just as good. Another thing is that nobody remembers why everyone left LA in the first place. Fair weather fans. Some people never learn.
The move to LA was never about the fans it was always about money. The NFL wanted a team there so they could host events and Super Bowls. Part of the deal the Rams made with the league was they built a TV studio for the league and let them use it for free. St. Louis was nothing more than the sacrificial lamb in the leagues quest to get to LA
The western side of Missouri still has the Chiefs. And in St. Louis, we have the Battlehawks.
I refused to watch the NFL for 20 years after the Rams left Anaheim .
@@mreppen1 Good
The NFL really misses you folks.................NOT 😂🙄🤡
They asked a buddy of mine back in 2012/13 if he'd be willing to move to LA. He was a back-up Rampage (team mascot) and could of been the full timer if things worked out.
I am a proud St. Louisan but never caught on to the Rams. I have extended family in Kansas City and when my parents got together, my dad gave up the Royals and adopted the Cardinals and my mom, who never really cared much for the football Cardinals, adopted the Chiefs to cheer for, so I've always been a Chiefs fan. With no literal dog in the "Rams leaving" fight, I honestly didn't care if they ended up going, but damn did that ownership group do STL dirty. Screw them. And if I wasn't such a big Chiefs fan, I would have stopped watching the NFL all together with the way it was handled. Everyone clearly knew that they left for the money and the money only, and the NFL helped them do it...because of the money.
I'm super thrilled that a-hole Kronke specifically stated that STL was "not a 3 team city" in his scathing report on the viability of STL as a continued home. Now we have STL City SC, that has a season ticket line literally decades long, to shove in his face. And yeah, I know MLS is not nearly as big as the NFL, but it still feels good. We support our teams when they care about us.
Maybe STL should of kept EJD a top tier venue
@@1999bill1999 Sweet Jesus, it's should HAVE, not should of. Learn to speak properly if you want your points to have any weight behind them.
@@luke-i1w You got the point. CVC didn’t keep up with their promise and the Rams were able to go to Year to Year lease because of the CVC ineptitude and incompetence. Your own city failed you
@@1999bill1999 It was a crappy promise they had to make to get a team anyway because the NFL screwed them out of the expansion team that became the Jaguars (STL Stallions memorabilia was already made). Was it the right thing to do? No. Can I blame them for making such a stupid promise? Also, no. All government officials are idiots, so yes, they painted themselves into a corner by having a half built stadium and no team. The NFL sure as hell didn't help out the situation though.
And STL had plans made to build a brand new stadium with their portion of the money all but collected, which met the criteria of not allowing the team to move based on the NFL's own relocation guidelines. Kronke (and Goodell) still shat all over it and the city as he was allowed to leave. The league then admitted that allowing the Rams to leave STL was wrong by settling out of court with the city just so they wouldn't get the huge and publicly viewable black eye that a drawn out court case would have given them. Take it from someone who saw it happen with his neighbors...Stan Kronke doesn't give two shits about you or any other fan out in LA. He just cares that you have more money in your pocket than the citizens of a "flyover" state.
It is so weird that teams move from city to city in USA. Flamengo from Brazil is in Rio de Janeiro since 1895, Real Madrid in Madrid since 1890, Manchester City in Manchester for long years. As a football ⚽️ fan, I’ve never seen any news saying teams would move city
Looks like Kroenke bought land in Cali, and then lied, saying he wasn't going to move.
What if he just say we leaving St Louis and returning to Los Angeles in the first place and that nothing St Louis can do about it and also say to St Louis don't put any money up to keep us because we gone or do anything you can keep the Lomdardi Trophy and the Banners i paying for ours own Stadium in Los Angeles and win ours own Championship in Los Angeles how things would be if he said and do that
College football proves that you don't have to get a new stadium all the time and in fact it's better when you don't. Think about the most iconic stadium in the NFL. Green Bay is old AF same thing with arrow head and Fenway Park in the MLB.
Syracuse University attempted to get a stadium, off campus, in the north end of the city, due to the Dome being too small. The mayor rejected it. The school then renovated the Dome and changed to JMA, dropping the 40-year Carrier name.
i live in new england and love the fins i got no real say in this fight but st louis should still have a team its a crying shame
The funny part after Sofi Stadium was built. 49er, Eagle, Steeler, Cowboy, and Brown fans fill Sofi Stadium 80-20% in favor of their teams and not the Rams, where in St.Louis that was not the issue. When they were in St.Louis the Rams issue was the amount of fans, and the amount of $$$$. The Battlehawks in the XFL wont have the issue of fans or $$$$. They only have the issue of league $$$$. The Battlehawks are the draw of the league, and the$$$ of the league, they are worth the price of admission alone.
You really think kroenke cares what color jerseys are in the stands? All those raider, cowboys and whiner fans buy beer to gusto. Kroenke wins regardless. He making a killen in LA with concerts and other events. SoFi is a gold mine for him.
It’s 50/50 when the Steelers, Eagles and Niners come to SoFi stadium.
Sounds like I did when the La Rams left Anaheim for STL. I didn’t watch the NFL for 20 years. I didn’t care.
I even heard that when they moved from LA to st.louis they were always going to go back to LA. You can see it in the contract that st.louis sign. The main stipulation was that the Edward Jones Dome had to be in the top 10 of NFL Stadium.
Thanks for this. I have been pissed at the NFL for years since the relocation. Seeing that Kroneke had to pay through the nose (even though he can afford it) did my heart good. A replacement franchise would have been interesting to have, but I think St. Louis can do without it. The Cards, Blues and MLS is fine for a city that seems to be hemorrhaging population.
You guys have the XFL; soon to be merged with the USFL, as well.
@@SuperSirianRigel that's like the equivalent of having a minor league baseball team... kinda cool but not really that notable
MLS sucks
Too much crime, and B.S.
I hope that judge never has to buy a drink in STL again.
As a Missouri native and a Chargers fan I found both relocations to be just awful
With so many games on TV with various cable packages, fans can just pick their favourite team, it doesn't have to be in their "home" town. Besides going to games isn't such a great experience any more. High costs and traffic, unless you're a real like the stadium atmosphere. Might as stay at home or go to a bar with friends to enjoy the game and multiple games at the same time.
Thank you! I couldn’t agree more! Why pay your tax dollars to help billionaires get richer by financing stadiums you receive no economic benefit from? You can turn on your TV or streaming device and watch games from virtually any sport, in any city. And going to games in person is a cost-prohibitive and time consuming endeavor for many people and families. I grew up in Saint Louis and my favorite sport is NBA basketball. I enjoyed going to Cardinals games growing up, but attending sporting events was in no way even among the top 100 most important things to my existence. I now live in metro Atlanta and I sure as hell don’t root for the Hawks. I’ve had no problem enjoying being a fan remotely. Sports teams are great, but at what cost are they worth having in a city? The relationship, as with any business and consumer, should be mutually beneficial.
A good follow-up video would be on the successful start of MLS in St Louis this year 2023. Apparently planned along side the potential Rams football stadium, it may have gotten a long term boost by the Rams departing. eventually building a larger soccer stadium than originally planned, I'm not a soccer fan by any means but these combined stories seem like a sure fire way to turn St Louis into a rabid soccer city that puts NFL football in the rear view mirror. (and maybe convert the local sports scene too given MLS's usual involvement with local clubs...) I can only speculate if some of that $790M got directed to this but otherwise looks like it was done w/o taxpayer money: another reason to kick the NFL outta there. Also, National Rent-a-car was still involved and now has part of the ownership of the soccer team and stadium, so National Rent-a-car field was still created but for soccer, not pro football.
The same could be said for San Diego when their MLS club launches in 2025.
It also helps the new MLS team in St Louis that there is a rich history of soccer in the area as the University of St Louis has won multiple NCAA titles & the Stars played in the NASL from 1966-1977 using mostly local players.
@@chrisguardiano6143soccer sucks
@@chrisguardiano6143 The Eastern European Roots are strong with St. Louis, so it makes sense why they have a strong Soccer fan base
STL took a FAT LOSS. 700Mil doesnt make up for losing an NFL franchise.
love the references
folks who saying STL not a football city need to check out they little league and high school teams .........srl def a football city
The financial studies have been conducted. It turns out it’s never beneficial economically for citizens when municipalities pay for stadiums. It never works out for anyone except the richest guy in town (the team owner)
The one team that can move to LA and hold the attention of the fans wether winning or losing is the Raiders.
@JQUE94 you are 100% correct. Anyone who's spent anytime in LA knows that city only has a loyal fanbase to three teams-the Dodgers, Lakers and Raiders. If the Raiders switch locations with the Rams or Chargers and moved back to LA LA would be "Raider Nation". Fact. Nobody knows or cared about Kroenke in LA, nobody showed up for the Rams Super Bowl parade either. Two years ago I was stuck in traffic on my way to Dodger game and street vendors were selling Dodgers and Raiders merch to people stuck in Dodger Stadium traffic.
@@tomdulle1707 they would sell out more Raider games than Laker games for sure!!!
@@tomdulle1707 My pops is from LA and grew up in the 70's and 80's as a youngin so he got to see the glory years and the solid years in the 90's as well
@@tomdulle1707 I was in LA in the 70s, and the Rams owned LA, they were far bigger than the dodgers and the pre Showtime Lakers. They were bigger than the Raiders and they was none of the gang shit in their fan base. Fact.
@@mreppen1People who grew up in the 70's and 80's in Los Angeles were Happy to finally see all 3 teams Rams,Dodgers,and Lakers wins World Championship in a 16 months spans between 2020-2022 seeing their dreams come true to them
Nice video 👍
To bad the same could not be said about Baltimore regarding the Colts
That's on the city and the state there.
I would say the same for Cleveland, but at least they got the Browns back even though it's really in name only since the original Browns are now the Ravens. Before any trolls comments, I am aware of the argeement. When Art Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore, the team had to be renamed the Ravens because everything related to Browns franchise had to stay in Cleveland, outside of the players. As a result, Cleveland was without an NFL team for a few years.
@@therealaustinpowers1967I still call the Ravens the original Browns. You can't get rid of their history and give it to an expansion team
I'm a Browns fan and I must say that we still don't really have a team and definitely haven't for most of my life. It's been a decades-long dog and pony show lol.
Baltimore got a new stadium and the Ravens eventually, and it’s been a big success.
I'd think its origins started back when the Rams and Raiders left Los Angeles. Back then cities were happy to fund new stadiums (with conditions unfavorable to the cities) to get a team. Los Angeles wouldn't do that, they told the Rams that they would be willing to help expedite stadium development but not give it funding guarantees, exclusive rights, etc. After negotiations the Rams left for St. Louis and L.A. was left without a team, but the city held its ground. Eventually the NFL couldn't leave the L.A. market without a team and Kronke brought the Rams back, though not in the City of Los Angeles but the City of Inglewood on the site of the defunct Hollywood Park horseracing track. No public funds spent on the stadium beyond the regular public works additions to the area and assistance with expedited city processes to help it along. So both St. Louis and Los Angeles/Inglewood beat the NFL. Now Steve Balmer is building a new arena to house his Los Angeles Clippers almost right next door to the Ram's SoFi stadium, and doing it without public funds.
Keeping up with your payments Kroenke??😂😂😂
When the Rams and Raiders left LA at around the same time it was miserable being a football fan in LA.
Then LA didn't have a team for so many years it became a basketball/baseball town. The Rams and Chargers have a hard time now getting people in seats. Not even a Superbowl win by the Rams got LA to become a football town. The Rams should have stayed in St. Louis and the Chargers in San Diego.
Did Oakland do the same after the Raiders left?
I figured out why they call them Raider nation, because they keep moving their fan base around the country… 🧐
I saw the movie American Underdog, which I would highly reccomend... and that movie is how I became a St Louis Battlehawks fan.......
And what has ST LOUIS done with NFL"s Money, Absolutely NOTHING to improve our city. I just wish we had another NFL team. instead. We were literally the worst team in the league for 15+ years after GSOT and we all still supported them, Jeff Fisher was hired to move the rams just like he did with the Oilers, then Houston got an expansion team. Why not St Louis too?
What’s crazy is that the legal counsel who signed off on the settlement on behalf of the Mayor’s office was a former employee of the Blitz law firm. We for sure could have gotten more, but the lawyers wanted to ensure that they got their cut. Makes sense, but damn what could have been.
St Louis should’ve demanded an expansion team with the settlement
I don't think the fan support would have been there at the time, everyone here was pissed at Kroenke and the NFL. In an ideal world the Chargers should have moved here, they have no business being in LA
Or maybe they should've gotten a 1995 expansion team. St. Louis had plans to get a new team that year and brand it as the "Stallions" Instead, Jacksonville and Charlotte got the new teams. As it turned out, the Jaguars considered moving to LA themselves. Now the rumor is----although maybe not very serious---is for the Jags to move to London, UK.
They lawyers took the case and weren’t charging the city unless they won money. Lawyers did t want a team. The lawyers wanted money. The city simply said go get them if you think you can get them. And they did and they won. This wasn’t never about another team. It was about the lawyers trying to get rich and the city gave them their blessing. Of course the city got their cut but each lawyer got over $100m or something close. Hat tip to the lawyers for taking a chance.
@@pyrotopher Wow! That’s sad
@@pyrotopher That make sense. No city management would be that saavy.
My family and I love to visit St. Louis several times a year, as a quick vaca. It is a great city that has a lot to offer for the family to enjoy.
When the Rams left it saddened me that the Chiefs didn’t have a cross state rival, and until a NEW team can enter the league, we welcome all St. Louis residents to continue wearing red and gold for the Chiefs. Actually was nice to see a few shirts there when we visited the Lou a few weeks ago!
The Rams never should have left Los Angeles in the first place but St. Louis sold their soul to lure the Rams. There was an out clause which gave the Rams permission to leave St. Louis if the stadium (Edward Jones Dome) wasn't one of the top tiered stadiums in the league which it wasn't. Georgia Frontierie moved the team to St. Louis because of money and the sweet heart deal her hometown offered her. I think in the back of her mind she always knew the Rams would be worth more in the LA market and Kronkie knew this as well. Georgia Frontierie played both Los Angeles and St. Louis for all they got. She had 7 husbands and 2 husbands died in "accidents" especially her 6th husband Carroll Rosenbloom whom she inherited the Rams from. When she died she was buried in Los Angeles. So did she ever care for St. Louis?
Well said comicbookninja5268.
I'm here for this conspiracy.
Well said. It is why only the new stadium actuallly approved for building in St. Louis can be discussed for St. Louis but owner contribution in line with the rest of the league was still needed. That is why the NFL Relocation committee recommended the Rams stay in St. Louis and it was not about The Dome. A better resolultion would have been for the NFL to give St. Louis an expansion team. An owner would have been found for its lower scale stadium.
Okay boomer
It's not St. Louis' fault that the dome got so outdated so quickly. Even the new stadium they were going to build already would be outdated; just look at Soldier Field.
This was a good, but not great outcome. They should've pushed until they got a team
They did, just an MLS one.
@TheJhtlag nobody cares about MLS. NFL is better than MLS
STL is more of a baseball city
@@halincadenza7165 Absolutely agree. But what the NFL did was wrong. They should've had to replace the team. Hell, make Khan move the Jags there. They'd do better than in Jacksonville
@@halincadenza7165 We still deserve an NFL team over some cities that have one right now though. Honestly the football cardinals should've never left in the first place
I heard there was talks around that time of Rush Limbaugh owning the St Louis Rams and (as a joke on his show) renaming it the Saint Louis Rush. I heard seriously The Rush Limbaugh deal was really going to go through until the players objected.
How does that fit in this story?
In addition to being an extremely racist POS, Rush wasn't going to be able to buy the team anyway. Just ask Shad Khan about that right of first refusal that Stan exercised.
The thing with St. Louis is that it’s not a football city. It’s a baseball city because of the cities rich baseball history with dating back to the early days of baseball in the late 19th century. What I’m trying to say that unlike most cities in America, baseball is still our past time in St. Louis
not true check out the little league and high school scene in stl
Indianapolis wasn't football city until Peyton Manning got there. If you can put together a winning team it can work in any city.
St. Louis has declined in population. They don’t even have the market capacity for a nfl team anymore.
@@tylerkriesel8590 They have a metro of 3 million larger than Green Bay, Buffalo, New Orleans and Jacksonville.
You mean late 19th century. I don’t think baseball existed in the late 18th century and Saint Louis was a fur trading post then.
The last game was 1988 I was there & have had stub
Ironically against the LA Rams
Easily my favorite part of St. Louis City’s incredible inaugural season was joining in with Rapids fans for a hearty “Kroenke sucks” chant. Although, really we should thank Kroenke; we probably wouldn’t have pursued MLS as aggressively as we did without his assholery.
Wow… an MLS team. Those St Louis people are real awesome! They boo the NFL and cheer on soccer… you aren’t an American. Go watch those fairies play soccer during your 10 man circle jerk.
Guess who owns Colorado Rapids?
Born and mostly raised in this city.... UGH where do i begin!?? If they received all that money, yet the majority of the streets and other infrastructures like the I-64 westbound at grand and downtown near the enterprise center all the way to the river! That's just for starters... (On my father's side) I'm a blood relative to Her Honor Mayor Tishaura O. Jones. I have never met her, but I hope she's working on something good for my Hometown. I really do love it from Tower Grove to Forest to Hyde Park. From The River road to the end of the River des Peres and all the people whom I love and care about dearly, but it is a very difficult city in which to live. Yet again, sooooo many reasons. Number one reason... The psychological state of its long term inhabitants has yet to change since the mid 1960's. That in itself is enough to deter me from wanting to EVER AGAIN live there long term. If you are from here you may get this. Have you ever left for years on end then come back to visit to see roughly EVERYONE (whom you know) doing basically the SAME thing they were doing when you left? One month there feels like one and a quarter months sometimes more. Secondly, most people who were born here, NEVER LEAVE or leave and come back VERY soon afterwards. This is a former glorious city sadly most of it was torn down or altered after the World's Fair in 1904.
Sadly It's the City That Got Stuck In Time.
PS:
There is actually a structure that is to blame for this anomaly, it also affects the weather and that is another discussion for another time.
You also didn't mention the problem that almost 500 million of the 790 paid to the city of St.Louis is not accounted for. If the city is going to be so inclined to be corrupt, than im even more happy we came back home to LA.
I dont know about all of it but im sure the attorneys got a major cut, probably at least 30% if not more
shame there's barely any Rams fans in LA. You'd think that winning a SuperBowl in their new home would generate more support from LA fans, but they still get absolutely swamped by opposing fans every "home" game, it seems
@@forgottenplaces9780What if Georgia never inherited the Rams from Carroll Rosebloom
@@forgottenplaces9780I heard that the lawyers got 35%
I didn't know the Rams moved back to Cleveland. When did that happen?
I'm in Jacksonville, FL. I've long believed that the Jaguars would eventually move to St. Louis. However, after seeing this I doubt St. Louis will ever have another NFL team.
This coming from a Cubs fan: good on you, St Louis. You’ve been burned by the biggest sporting organization in the US, not once but twice, and decided, “You know what? F*ck you, too.” That’s an extra spicy level of hate that I honestly commend.
@Purist-dc4vk And as a Cubs fan, I can only say this: F*********************CK!
Anyone know how St Louis spent that money?
It was split between the dome and convention authority, the lawyers, and i think the city got a cut as well
I spent the majority of my life in St. Louis and grew up with the Cardinals and then the Rams came in (which no one in LA was trying to save btw). After the way the fix was in to move the Rams back to SoCal, I was hanging on as a fan. “Don’t let Goodell, JJ, and Kroenke steal football from you “ we were told. Well, I’m done with the NFL. Too many ungrateful players, too much virtue signaling by the league, etc. I enjoy football in other ways now.
That is actually quite rare when a city lost two NFL teams. First, the Cardinals and then the St. Louis Rams again.
@@michaelverbakel7632 and they took both them teams from Chicago and Los Angeles. Reep what you sow type shit.
There was a concerted effort to keep the Rams in LA. The fact that LA residents didn't want to pay extra taxes to fund a millionaire to build a new stadium just shows that we weren't as gullible as some other cities.
They wanted a new stadium but they were 2-14, 2-14, 1-15, 3-13, 2-14 for 5 years! They weren't worth it!
It's thought that Kroenke and company intentionally ran the team into the ground to decrease their popularity.
They also kept praising this Loser, Pathetic Quarterback, that couldn't throw a Touchdown for his own team if he tried, and wouldn't replace him, or get a new one no matter how much St. Louis called for his head!
Isn’t St Louis more of baseball town in any case?
Yes but this video wasnt about that argument
Hell no
Isn’t LA a basketball town?
Do people forget that we were under 500 every year since 2004 til until they moved? Back during the GSOT years we had the best crowd of all of the NFL
ONE OF! memphis sends their regards
By losing their team and future Superbowl
That’s on St. Louis for not keeping their promises
The NFL never awarded St Louis a Super Bowl game even back them TWD were a Dome Stadium because of their feeling about Georgia Frontiere and the move to St Louis
Edward Jones Dome should be the site of the FCS Championship game.
Frankly, The rams built that new stadium with private funds.. why could they not even think about that in St. Louis? I was glad St. Louis came out on top and don’t blame them for not caring about the NFL… Sadly for Kronkie… I think he will rue the day he moved the team back to LA… Let’s face it.. LA had two teams when the Rams and Raiders in the same offseason left… now they have 2 teams again.. did nobody learn from the Raiders and Rams the first time? And the Chargers… I expect half their fanbase is pissed because they also didn’t deal very nicely with their old hometown…
When the Raiders move to Los Angeles people were talking about that but Al Davis were never a team player and didn't care or listening to his fellow owners about that
Why would a city pay a private organization instead of the other way around? Can I get the city to pay for my kitchen renovations as well?
Sure all you need to do is find a way for your kitchen to help drive millions of dollars into the local economy every year, provide jobs and attract tourists. Whilst also giving the city free national exposure.
I'm rooting for ya! Go get that kitchen bro.
@@louiscypher4186 drive millions of dollars in while Taking HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS PROBABLY BILLIONS out. What a great deal you've got yourself! No wonder the average American is poorer then ever 😂
Rams should’ve never left Los Angeles in the first place.
No one ever says anything about kroenke making sure the team was not competitive for 4 straight years.
As a native Southern Californian, I remember that it was Georgia Frontiere who wanted to take the Rams out of Los Angeles where they had been since 1946, to a smaller St. Louis market primarily because she wanted to retire back home in St. Louis. As a human being, I totally understand this, however, she didn't have to take our team with her. I think it is ironic that a native of St. Louis, Stan Kroenke, returned the team which was taken from us after the 1994 season. I am sorry St. Louis had to get caught in the middle of this, but now they know how many of us in Southern California felt after the Rams were taken from us. It hurt beyond words.
Yet Georgia chose to be buried in Los Angeles when she died in 2008. She never really left LA as she always kept a home in Malibu as did Stan Kroenkie by the way.
@@comicbookninja5268Never understand why she want to be buried in Los Angeles after she stole their team
They were building his old stadium for the Rams and they just had to leave and even when the Rams versus the Cardinals, it’s all Cardinal stands in LA