Y’all two are my favorites!!! Love watching both of you and to come across a video with both I hit the jackpot! So, AJ if I am hitting a graphite shaft at 65 grams in Regular flex, you’re saying same 65 gram shaft in my wedges trimmed to stiff flex?
Have dg 105 stiff in my 4-9, dg 115 stiff in my 48, and put dg 120 x100 8 iron shafts per your guidance in my sand and lob and it's been a noticable difference in full and partial swings both in feel and ability to hold greens. Thanks so much for this "secret"
Super interesting. Very good video. Thanks! So basicly. Every tipstiff "low spin shaft" becomes a high spin shaft if you install them into your wedge. 😊👌
This is good stuff. I had this same problem. I'm a high speed player (120 clubhead on driver) but couldn't even get 1 hop and stop on wedges with 8 iron DG S400. Went to a stiffer shaft and just like you showed got my launch down to 30* and spin went up about 2,700rpm. Good to see some Maltby on the channel. Golfworks makes great stuff like those TSWs. Their flagship Tour TC driver is a rocket launcher. Great customer service and products.
Yes, I would love to try out one of these wedges. I am intrigued. I walked away from a 60 degree as I just kept skying the shots. The lower trajectory would be most welcome. Thanks AJ
Awesome equipment hack AJ.... but arent all those spin numbers very low even the x100? Shouldn't a wedge spin waaay more then that even with a wedge shaft??
AJ thanks for another great video. I love my wedges but I'm concerned about the faces/grooves being worn, reducing back spin. I just did a quick look in your video library and was curious if you have a video on how to sharpen your grooves? TIA.
There are a few different re grooving tools out there. Just need to make sure you know what kind of grooves you are wanting to sharped and be aware that you may be making the wedge non conforming for tournament play it that is a concern.
Didn’t see this result coming, but a great test. So this begs the question: how do you apply this overall concept in an iron fitting? For instance do I hit a head, then try shafts, then hard or soft step to adjust to spin or decent? Then swing weight? Any thoughts on approach? Maybe a video for this ;-) as I’m about to start testing.
It really appears that the wedges will actually see the biggest change from this method, more so than irons or even drivers, specifically because of that high loft. Irons will usually see more of a launch up = spin up kind of result. Drivers are really more dependent on vertical strike location on the face. This brings gear effect into the equation.
Great video AJ but I would ask you to look into the forward deflection a bit. My understanding is that is a camera illusion due to the head travelling faster than the shaft. Good insights though I definitely am pulling those shafts 👍
That can happen as seen in that famous Tiger driver image from 15 years ago with a foot of forward deflection. However with high speed shutters and ultra slow motion video, we can see exactly what is happening with no artifacts or distortions.
I incorporated this with my 50° and 60°. I used X stiff graphite shafts. The spin on my 60 was consistently 9-10k rpm. 80-85 carry. Unreal results. Not expecting those kinds of numbers.
Wondering if the ball cover lasts longer as a side effect of better compression too instead of under cutting the ball with too the normal wedge shafts.
Interesting. I thought AJ was based out of Northern Michigan and Mr. Shortgame was out of Atlanta. I wonder how that made this happen? Oh well. Great video!
I'm curious how that TSW head performs compared to other mainstream wedges? I was interested, but it looks like a super wide sole, which scares me on tight lies, since I'm somewhat of a picker with partial shots. Hard to find much info on DTC equipment, especially Maltby.
Have you tried this with a 7 iron shaft? Just wondering where this starts to fall apart. Really cool video and tip. Thanks! And Howard is pretty awesome!
I haven't. Really will just depend on where the stiffer flex shaft becomes softer than the wedge specific shaft. Once the shaft flexes more because of the wedge head weight, we lose the benefit of lower launch, higher spin.
So if I play X100’s in my irons and S300’s in my wedges, I should put X100’s into the wedges to increase spin and lower the ball flight? I hit all my irons very high and do struggle to lower my wedges shots a lot more than my irons.
I am curious of the carry distance. One thing I have found is I want low launch, high spin so I have more control. Right now my wedges will balloon. My previous gap wedge with tp5x was spinning 13,000 rpms. Just ballooning. Rtx-4 with a s400 has so far been my best performance on control and spin without launching to high. I am looking at redoing my wedge setup. I currently play the Haywood MBs 4-PW with kbs tour 120 stiff standard length, 2 deg flat. PW is 46 deg. Thinking of 50,54,58 for the wedges. What would you recommend?
Matt is a super guy and has a great swing. Do you butt trim the shaft to a wedge length after tip trimming to an eight iron? Or tip trim to a wedge then butt trim to a wedge length? Thanks A.J.
These were taper tip, so they were manufactured to go into an 8i head. All we do is buy the right one, then install and butt trim to final length. If you are using .370 tip shafts, you have to do the tip trimming to make the flex correct for the specific iron head weight, then as with taper, butt cut to final playing length.
Hi AJ. I'm just starting out to build my first set of irons. I've always used Dynamic Gold (S300) shafts in my clubs so I am sticking with them. When ordering shafts would you recommend using the 8 iron (X100) shaft from PW to Lob wedge or just keep to the Gap, Sand and Lob wedges??? Also on a side note. I'm a high ball hitter but I want to set up my irons to help hit the ball lower. Is there any difference between the .355 and the .370 tip shafts with regard to trajectory?? I know I have .355 hosels but I also do have a 3/8 reamer if modding the hosels is of any benefit.
I would use the 8i X100 in the SW and LW. The lower lofted wedges don't benefit as much from it because of the loft. My opinion, always go .355 if it's an option because of the constant weight. .370 will be descending weight, which is not as good.
Mobile Clubmaker, great video and informative. Have an off topic question. What type of epoxy do you use? Just had a head come off a Ping 7i on a re-shafted set I did years ago. I think this epoxy was GolfWorks, either that or Wishon, can't recall. Those are the usual types that I have used in the past. I am just a home gamer but have made numerous sets for people and family, and can't have heads coming off, lol. The shaft was prepped pretty well by the way, scuffed the tip end pretty well just so you know. Thank you.
I use the Golfworks stuff. Knock on wood, only have ever had one issue and that was because of some PXG adapter issues. I always like to clean the hosels with acetone as a final step before assembly.
Great informative video. Got a few questions as i am seriously considering changing my shafts based on your findings. I currently game the Nippon N.S. PRO Modus 3 Tour 120 stiff shaft in my irons so the X100 would be a good fit for me. Was there any gains/losses in carry distance with the adjustment in spin and launch. I assume you would cut the 8 iron shaft from the butt to match the wedge shaft length. I have seen a few variations of the Dynamic gold X100, AMT, SL & tour issue. Does it matter which one and do you know the difference between them. Thanks 👍🏾
The distance we saw with both were very close overall. The 8i shaft might be fractionally longer due to lower loft. Correct assumption that we butt trim only to get the desired final play length. The shafts you mention mainly differ in weight except Tour Issue. Tour Issue is just about tighter tolerances when weight sorting the DGs. Same exact shaft, you just know the weights will be more uniform. As for the rest, you just want to have a weight that is about the same or up to 10g heavier then the irons so a standard DG would work fine. Could also use the 120g version.
Really interesting data on this one AJ, thank you. I have the DG S400 in my 55º wedge, but DG Wedge Spinner in my 50º and 60º. Not sure where the Wedge Spinner falls in the spectrum between the S400 and the X-100? Also, if I play the KBS C-Taper 120s in my 3-PW set, would it be worth experimenting with the X-100 in the 50, 55, and 60? Don't know of a place to get a wedge fitting in my area, so curious to hear your thoughts.
I think the X100 or the 130 KBS would be similar. Same weight in both and similar profile I believe. Not sure where the Spinner shaft sits these days. When you read the description, it actually goes against everything we showed here so really not sure with it.
@@EFGMC great vid! I wonder if the spinner isn’t actually more in line with your 8 iron shaft idea. While the True Temper site does describe it as more tip active, it also says it’s longer (I assume then trimmed to length) and is a Tour trick. Maybe they are essentially doing with the spinner shaft what you’ve done with the 8-iron shaft? It kind of makes sense because if I’m not mistaken soft stepping generally makes the shaft play softer because of the heavier clubhead.
@@cksamo That is true about the soft stepping, but what we are doing is soft stepping a stiffer shaft so the net result is still stiffer. The X100 8i shaft has a much shorter bottom step vs the S400 wedge so it's easy to see why it's stiffer. I think I might have a DG Spinner that I pulled for someone laying around. Need to see if I can find it and measure the step pattern.
It’s hard to believe that this could just be a matter of delivered loft at impact. If that were true, then a 7 iron would spin more than an 8 iron. It could instead be that the shaft flex is also affecting the angle of attack. The more flexible shaft will have a less steep angle of attack, which will give you a lower spin. Imagine that shaft flexing forward through the strike. That would definitely make the angle attack less steep.
That Hi-Rev confuses me a bit. I have not tested one but when you read the description, they talk about a more active tip section (much like DG Spinner) which we show here to not be what you want. Do you find you get better spin numbers with it?
@@EFGMC I did not hit it on a launch monitor prior to pulling it so I can't answer that question. I now have S400 shafts in all my dedicated wedges. I've never been one to lack spin anyway and I don't feel like I am sacrificing any with these new shafts in these new wedges. I love these tinker and compare videos, keep them coming
Interesting. I have Modus 105-S in my irons with Modus 120-S “soft stepped” in my wedges. So slightly heavier shaft but a little more kick in the tail so to speak.
How do you suggest thinking about this if playing much longer wedges (think 1.5" over). Rest of iron set progressive lengths between 0.5" - 1" over. Would you just use the wedge shaft (in the iron set for Nippon 120 X) rather than the 8i shaft to get a similar effect?
Assuming you are just changing the butt cut length on all these clubs and not doing anything different with tip trimming or hard/soft stepping, then it should still work out the same. The 8 iron shaft one flex up will still be stiffer then the matching wedge shaft if butt trimmed to the same final length.
An interesting idea. I have a surplus of wedges that might be candidates for this treatment. But (and maybe this is a really dumb question) when you trim the 8-iron shaft do you do it from the butt for length only. Thanks!
Yes, assuming the shaft is stiffer than what is in the irons, we are butt trimming only. All the shafts I used in these videos were .355 taper, so you are only ever butt trimming them, as they are factory designed for a specific iron head. You could do the same thing with the stiffer version in a 9/PW shaft but that would make the shaft play significantly stiffer whereas the 8 iron won't feel quite so "boardy".
I watched a video of a club fitter put a senior flex graphite shaft in his wedge and he gained higher launch angel and higher spin rate. Curious what the physics are behind that.
Thanks for all the great videos, AJ!! I currently use Nippon Zelos 7 regular for all my irons. Do you have any shaft recommendation for my wedges if I want to follow this wedge hack? (Zelos 8 stiff 8 iron??) Thanks!
First question is what is in them now, because if they have stock S400 or S200 Dynamic Gold, moving into the Zelos line will make them more flexible (ie less spin, higher launch). However if they are matching or you want everything to play consistently for feel while still taking advantage of this concept, then you will probably want Zelos 8 stiff, but in 9 iron. We choose 8i in Dynamic Gold b/c they only make down to a 9i shaft in that model. Zelos makes a 9i and a wedge so we want the 9i being one step up from the shortest.
@@EFGMC Thanks, AJ! I bought a new set of CBX Zipcore wedges with stock 115 spinner shaft. I tried the stock graphite but felt too stiff and heavy and not balance. Since my irons are using Zelos 7 Regular, I figure I can reshaft them with something similar profile and still take advantage of this concept. Beside Zelos 8, do you have any other shaft recommendation? or Zelos 8 stiff is my best bet? Thanks.
Another great video Abe! Awesome…here’s a question for you…I have AMT White S300 shafts in my irons…so, they are progressive from about 113g i in my 6 iron (after butt trimming), and 122 for the 9 iron…they progress is 3g increments…to do this method what would be the recommended shaft? AMT White X100 8 iron shafts, or should I get the 9 iron one?
You will want the standard DG X100 8 iron shaft, not any of the AMT. The AMT white is essentially the DG S300 in the short irons, so you can treat the progression the same as someone using standard S300s. DG X100 8i shaft will be the best match for weight and flex.
@@EFGMC Perfect. I forgot to add…my set has a GW (48), a 52, 56, and 60. My 52, 56, and 60 are Cleveland Wedges, and my GW matches my set (T100S irons)…do I get the AMT 9 iron shaft for the GW or the DX100 8 iron shaft? I use it for full shots 95% of the time…
Question for you about shafts. I used to play the DG120X X100’s but recently switched to MMT 105TX’s. My elbows and joints appreciate it a lot. Lol. However MMT also has wedges shafts that you can purchase. Would I do the same and not purchase the wedge shafts and buy the normal 8i MMT 105TX and have them cut down for all my wedges? Or just the SW and/or LW? Also what about the GW? As you stated all 3 of those have the standard steel S300 wedge flex in them.
If you are already in TX flex, things get tricky. Can't use the 8i b/c it's not stiffer than the wedge shaft and that is the key. So the options for you are either find a different shaft that's even stiffer. Not sure if the 125 is stiffer or just heavier than 105. Other option is the tip trim about 3/8inch off a 105TX wedge shaft (ie Tiger stepping). Most tapered hosels can still accommodate a taper tip shaft after that much tipping. Of course since we are talking graphite, you can just sand down the tip a bit if the fit is too tight.
@@EFGMC I did not swap out the GW-LW. I kept those with the S300 shafts. Only swapped the 4-PW into the MMT 105TX. So if I did purchase an MMT 105TX 8i shaft for the wedges they would be stiffer than the S300. The other question is MMT comes in a wedge flex already. Would that be better than the 105TX or the S300?
So, where does an X100 iron shaft guy go with his wedges for this hack? (As you know, the DG 9 and PW shafts are the same raw length/step pattern). Why do we see tour pros typically go softer in the high-lofted wedge(s)? Given: Their technique is impeccable so they can control launch.
Hey AJ, was wondering if you have any swing number comparisons for partial swings, I find that I rarely hit full shots with most of my wedges, was wondering if this trick would help spin numbers there as well?
Very interesting. Do you suggest to do so with all wedges? I carry a 58 / 52 / 46 wedge set and wonder if you recommend your 8i shaft for every of them? Or only for the ones that I use to swing half swings more often? Thank you
@@EFGMC I am putting the DG 105 X100 8 iron shaft in my 46 degree Vokey SM6 at your suggestion. After testing will probably put this shaft in my 50, 54, and 58 Vokeys. One question that I have is how it will effect feel chipping around the green?
@@pauldavis8286 The idea is that it should feel stiffer, but not way off stiffer. Basically just an extension of the stiffness of the other irons in the set.
Hi , I’m about to try this out but I have a question… I played p790’s and I’ve decided to go with 48, 54, 60 (had 46,50,54and 58 - too many wedges) So the 48 will be used for full shots and pitching and chipping so is the ball flight significantly lower? ie - do I just reshaft the 54 and 60 or all 3 ? Thank you
Good question. The lower the stated loft on a club, the less effect you will see from this method, at least as far as spin goes. The 54 and 60 will show more spin increase using it.
Great video AJ and Matt A.K.A Mr. ShortGame. I am looking to do the same thing with my MMT shaft setup. I currently have MMT 95S in my irons and MMT 105W in my wedges. This setup gives me height (too much) in my wedges but lacks distance and spin. MMT doesn't offer X-Stiff in the 95 weight. I'm wondering if using a 105S 8- iron shaft would yield similar results to the hack in your video? Any thoughts on this?
I’m not sure how the flex vs weight works in the MMT line up. Usually as a graphite shaft gets heavier it also gets stiffer but not every time. You might want to move into the 105 TX as they don’t offer straight X. Also will want to use the 9i instead of 8i. 8i is Dynamic Gold specific b/c of the lineup progression (no PW shaft made).
Would one get the same result by using an X stiff version of the same shaft? Ex- I use modus 120stiff in my irons. Should I use a modus 120 x stiff in the wedges? My fitter recommended s400 wedge shafts.
Yes. Key is the stiffer shaft flexing less and delivering less loft at impact. If the Modus3 120 X is stiffer than S400, then it works. I know some people say the Modus line runs soft so you might also consider using the X flex wedge shaft (instead of 8i), at least if you are trying to compare against the S400 wedge shaft.
I had two wedges shafted with KBS tour c taper x shafts and hit unbelievable and I play 105 gram dynamic gold's so much different shafts. Clubs got stolen and bought the same wedges with KBS wedge flex shafts and nowhere near the same.
If you follow the method with the 8i X100, no need to tip anything. You could tip it more but not sure what benefit you would see and the shaft would feel very boardy.
@@EFGMC got it, thank you. I have a ZNE shaft in my 58 and 52 wedges and it’s been one of the best additions to my wedge setup in a long time. I’m thinking about going with the 8i shaft in my PW to get some of the benefits mentioned in your video.
Great video & serious food for thought….Just for clarification, the 8i shaft is tipped and trimmed to be the same length as the wedge shaft, correct? I’m not playing a wedge with a longer shaft. Thanks!
As stated by Hovard, it's not tipped. Only time you would tip is if using .370 parallel blanks. Then you would follow the recommended tipping for an 8 iron.
@@EFGMC Currently play 54 and 58 TSW wedges in R flex. Love 'em and highly recommend them. I have a couple extra TT Score shafts. I play regular flex in all my irons. So I would tip trim for an 8i regular flex and butt trim to my normal wedge play length. Right?
@@laszlokovacs8827 Correction. You would want 8i STIFF flex in order to do it. R flex would end up softer than the matching wedge shaft and would result in higher launch with less spin.
Could you set up different sets just for conditions without suffering loss of distance? Wet conditions, dry hard and fast or maybe even Augusta National set up that could change over night depending on the decision of the committee?
For sure if you had identical wedges in loft/lie ext. Did see a slight static weight change between them so not sure if switching back and forth with different weights might have a negative effect if switching day to day??
I Play nippon modus 120S soft stepped in my irons and 120 R flex in my current wedges so slightly lighter shaft in wedges at the moment 👎 I’m looking for new wedges what’s the difference between Modus wedge flex and a #8X be great to hear what I should expect different between the 2 before I make a purchase thanks 👍
I would say the Modus3 wedge S flex will be pretty similar to the 120 8i x flex. The x flex wedge shaft is probably more similar to the Modus 125. The R flex wedge shaft probably close to the Modus 120 stock wedge shaft in Stiff.
This is very interesting! I am currently considering buying new shaft for my wedges. I have 50, 55 and 60 degrees on the wedges as gaping. I currently play the the project x 7.0 which is a x-stiff 130g shaft. I'm currently considering the Dynamic Gold Tour Issue s100 shafts for my wedges but it might be better to go for project x 7.0 8i shafts instead?
No. That is going the wrong way for this technique. You need a stiffer shaft, and the 8i shaft in the wedges is softer. There really isn't anything stronger than the 7.0 so you would really only have the option of tip trimming a 7.0 if you wanted to get even stiffer. I personally wouldn't recommend this though.
I guess I’m a little confused, as usual. If I order a Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400 black onyx shaft wouldn’t they all be the same length uncut or do they rough cut them per iron?
This was way more eye opening than I anticipated. As a former wannabe on the pro circuit I have Dynamic Gold X100 shafts in my Titleist blades. I can no longer "load the shaft" because they are too heavy. Back in the day 20 years ago no problem, now not happening. On top of that the lofts of today's equipment is way stronger than it was then. Fascinating and I will be messing around with this. I like that Modus Nippon shaft 105 gram. I was just looking at my own numbers to compare. Now my head speed was slightly higher at 85 but my launch angle with a standard shaft was 23.5* average so either my swing has considerably more shaft lean or I don't know what. Spin numbers were definitely much higher I had some in the 11k range. Average in the 8500.
Based on Howards post associated with this trick. Since the shortest shaft made by DG is a 9 iron length you are supposed to use that shaft and tip trim. Information from his post on Golfwrx.. "#4 - If #9 is the shortest and stiffest iron shaft like it is for many models. Use the #9 iron shaft, and Tip trim it "2 shafts stronger" = 1.0 to 1,25" - REAMING OF THE HOSEL TO 0.370 NEEDED ON TAPER TIP"
so how would this affect carry distances? very interested in trying it but have nice gapping with my wedges at the moment and dont want to mess up my yardages
Sounds like this could work for me who's currently playing DG120 S300. Question is would I use DG120 X100 or do DG130g X100? I was thinking my 50, 54, 58 MD5 wedges to be swapped but noticed you didn't think gap wedges needed this from a comment below
I would probably lean towards the 120 weight version but I think anything within 10g will have a good feel as far as consistency through the set. As for the 50, for consistency of feel it probably makes sense to do all three, my main point there is you probably won't see the kind of difference we see in the higher lofts. But if you are doing the others, and especially if you are changing shaft weights, I would do them all.
Great times working on this video. Showed me a lot I never realized. Thanks AJ
Thanks for all your help!
Y’all two are my favorites!!! Love watching both of you and to come across a video with both I hit the jackpot! So, AJ if I am hitting a graphite shaft at 65 grams in Regular flex, you’re saying same 65 gram shaft in my wedges trimmed to stiff flex?
Thanks AJ, your videos are very insightful. I watch just to learn new stuff every time new content comes out.
Matt's swing so silky smooth!! Can't watch the swing enough! Amazing hack, AJ, thank you!
Interesting shaft adjustment. I’ll look into picking up a couple shafts for my wedges. I’m looking forward to watching your channel AJ.
always wondered about this concept... Thanks for the experiment. Mr SG is cool, too...
Great colaboration! Love Matt’s Chanel too!
Excellent ideas, I will definitely try this trick on my wedges. Thanks!
Nice vid AJ and fun to see this concept in video format and not just WRX threads! Would love to see a similar video using a Tiger Stepped gap wedge
Thanks AJ, your videos are very helpfull, lookiing to seeing more.
Have dg 105 stiff in my 4-9, dg 115 stiff in my 48, and put dg 120 x100 8 iron shafts per your guidance in my sand and lob and it's been a noticable difference in full and partial swings both in feel and ability to hold greens. Thanks so much for this "secret"
Howard is the man. Kudos to you for giving him proper credit
Very interesting concept. Awesome video
This was a great informative video!
Interesting concept thanks for your time and expertise!🙏
Great video AJ. thanks
Mr. Short game brought you a new subscriber.
Cheers AJ… interesting stuff.. 👍
Just saw the vid w Mr short game. Great video I’d like a club like that !!
Super interesting. Very good video. Thanks!
So basicly. Every tipstiff "low spin shaft" becomes a high spin shaft if you install them into your wedge. 😊👌
Yeah, the question becomes is there something stiffer that you can substitute in, and for most people the answer is yes.
This is good stuff. I had this same problem. I'm a high speed player (120 clubhead on driver) but couldn't even get 1 hop and stop on wedges with 8 iron DG S400. Went to a stiffer shaft and just like you showed got my launch down to 30* and spin went up about 2,700rpm. Good to see some Maltby on the channel. Golfworks makes great stuff like those TSWs. Their flagship Tour TC driver is a rocket launcher. Great customer service and products.
The Maltby stuff is great. And it's incredibly helpful to have quality components to use when I do these sort of tests/experiments.
Some interesting stuff, really makes me want to play around with clubs.
Yes, I would love to try out one of these wedges. I am intrigued. I walked away from a 60 degree as I just kept skying the shots. The lower trajectory would be most welcome. Thanks AJ
50-54-57 is my set up throw the 60 in the garbage.lmao
@@kiplingvisintini5783 I agree about the 60, I don't see any value
That’s some interesting info! 👍🏼
very interesting will try this out!
pretty interesting stuff... thx for sharing. Now a new subscriber.
Watched it on both channels... Cheers
Thanks great info!
Great video learned a lot about this small difference could make this much difference Mahalo’s
Great idea
Luv this,, l will definitely try this
This would have never occured to me. Gonna have to give this a try.
Awesome equipment hack AJ.... but arent all those spin numbers very low even the x100? Shouldn't a wedge spin waaay more then that even with a wedge shaft??
Insightful 👏
Tiger stepping, nice
AJ thanks for another great video. I love my wedges but I'm concerned about the faces/grooves being worn, reducing back spin. I just did a quick look in your video library and was curious if you have a video on how to sharpen your grooves? TIA.
There are a few different re grooving tools out there. Just need to make sure you know what kind of grooves you are wanting to sharped and be aware that you may be making the wedge non conforming for tournament play it that is a concern.
Enjoyed the video would love a wedge
New sub! Learned about you from the collaboration with MSG.
Fingers crossed I win a wedge!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!!
Welcome to the channel. Thanks for the support!
@@EFGMC you bet!!
I’d love to try these out. I struggle with a high ball flight.
Interesting stuff
Didn’t see this result coming, but a great test. So this begs the question: how do you apply this overall concept in an iron fitting? For instance do I hit a head, then try shafts, then hard or soft step to adjust to spin or decent? Then swing weight? Any thoughts on approach? Maybe a video for this ;-) as I’m about to start testing.
It really appears that the wedges will actually see the biggest change from this method, more so than irons or even drivers, specifically because of that high loft.
Irons will usually see more of a launch up = spin up kind of result.
Drivers are really more dependent on vertical strike location on the face. This brings gear effect into the equation.
Great video AJ but I would ask you to look into the forward deflection a bit. My understanding is that is a camera illusion due to the head travelling faster than the shaft. Good insights though I definitely am pulling those shafts 👍
That can happen as seen in that famous Tiger driver image from 15 years ago with a foot of forward deflection. However with high speed shutters and ultra slow motion video, we can see exactly what is happening with no artifacts or distortions.
I incorporated this with my 50° and 60°. I used X stiff graphite shafts. The spin on my 60 was consistently 9-10k rpm. 80-85 carry. Unreal results. Not expecting those kinds of numbers.
Love it. The higher the loft the more effect you can see, at least in terms of spin numbers.
Wondering if the ball cover lasts longer as a side effect of better compression too instead of under cutting the ball with too the normal wedge shafts.
Interesting. I thought AJ was based out of Northern Michigan and Mr. Shortgame was out of Atlanta. I wonder how that made this happen? Oh well. Great video!
I'm everywhere!
Very nice. Thanks.
I don't do Instagram though...
Great video with Mr. Short Game. I don't have Instagram and would love to win! :)
I'm curious how that TSW head performs compared to other mainstream wedges? I was interested, but it looks like a super wide sole, which scares me on tight lies, since I'm somewhat of a picker with partial shots. Hard to find much info on DTC equipment, especially Maltby.
Have you tried this with a 7 iron shaft? Just wondering where this starts to fall apart. Really cool video and tip. Thanks! And Howard is pretty awesome!
I haven't. Really will just depend on where the stiffer flex shaft becomes softer than the wedge specific shaft. Once the shaft flexes more because of the wedge head weight, we lose the benefit of lower launch, higher spin.
So if I play X100’s in my irons and S300’s in my wedges, I should put X100’s into the wedges to increase spin and lower the ball flight? I hit all my irons very high and do struggle to lower my wedges shots a lot more than my irons.
I’m in!
I am curious of the carry distance. One thing I have found is I want low launch, high spin so I have more control. Right now my wedges will balloon. My previous gap wedge with tp5x was spinning 13,000 rpms. Just ballooning. Rtx-4 with a s400 has so far been my best performance on control and spin without launching to high. I am looking at redoing my wedge setup. I currently play the Haywood MBs 4-PW with kbs tour 120 stiff standard length, 2 deg flat. PW is 46 deg. Thinking of 50,54,58 for the wedges. What would you recommend?
Matt is a super guy and has a great swing. Do you butt trim the shaft to a wedge length after tip trimming to an eight iron? Or tip trim to a wedge then butt trim to a wedge length? Thanks A.J.
These were taper tip, so they were manufactured to go into an 8i head. All we do is buy the right one, then install and butt trim to final length. If you are using .370 tip shafts, you have to do the tip trimming to make the flex correct for the specific iron head weight, then as with taper, butt cut to final playing length.
Hi AJ. I'm just starting out to build my first set of irons. I've always used Dynamic Gold (S300) shafts in my clubs so I am sticking with them. When ordering shafts would you recommend using the 8 iron (X100) shaft from PW to Lob wedge or just keep to the Gap, Sand and Lob wedges??? Also on a side note. I'm a high ball hitter but I want to set up my irons to help hit the ball lower. Is there any difference between the .355 and the .370 tip shafts with regard to trajectory?? I know I have .355 hosels but I also do have a 3/8 reamer if modding the hosels is of any benefit.
I would use the 8i X100 in the SW and LW. The lower lofted wedges don't benefit as much from it because of the loft.
My opinion, always go .355 if it's an option because of the constant weight. .370 will be descending weight, which is not as good.
Mobile Clubmaker, great video and informative. Have an off topic question. What type of epoxy do you use? Just had a head come off a Ping 7i on a re-shafted set I did years ago. I think this epoxy was GolfWorks, either that or Wishon, can't recall. Those are the usual types that I have used in the past. I am just a home gamer but have made numerous sets for people and family, and can't have heads coming off, lol. The shaft was prepped pretty well by the way, scuffed the tip end pretty well just so you know. Thank you.
I use the Golfworks stuff. Knock on wood, only have ever had one issue and that was because of some PXG adapter issues. I always like to clean the hosels with acetone as a final step before assembly.
@@EFGMC Thanks for the reply
Great informative video.
Got a few questions as i am seriously considering changing my shafts based on your findings. I currently game the Nippon N.S. PRO Modus 3 Tour 120 stiff shaft in my irons so the X100 would be a good fit for me.
Was there any gains/losses in carry distance with the adjustment in spin and launch.
I assume you would cut the 8 iron shaft from the butt to match the wedge shaft length.
I have seen a few variations of the Dynamic gold X100, AMT, SL & tour issue. Does it matter which one and do you know the difference between them. Thanks 👍🏾
The distance we saw with both were very close overall. The 8i shaft might be fractionally longer due to lower loft.
Correct assumption that we butt trim only to get the desired final play length.
The shafts you mention mainly differ in weight except Tour Issue. Tour Issue is just about tighter tolerances when weight sorting the DGs. Same exact shaft, you just know the weights will be more uniform.
As for the rest, you just want to have a weight that is about the same or up to 10g heavier then the irons so a standard DG would work fine. Could also use the 120g version.
@@EFGMC Thanks for the response AJ that helps alot. If i do go ahead with the change I'll let you know my results.
Really interesting data on this one AJ, thank you. I have the DG S400 in my 55º wedge, but DG Wedge Spinner in my 50º and 60º. Not sure where the Wedge Spinner falls in the spectrum between the S400 and the X-100? Also, if I play the KBS C-Taper 120s in my 3-PW set, would it be worth experimenting with the X-100 in the 50, 55, and 60? Don't know of a place to get a wedge fitting in my area, so curious to hear your thoughts.
I think the X100 or the 130 KBS would be similar. Same weight in both and similar profile I believe. Not sure where the Spinner shaft sits these days. When you read the description, it actually goes against everything we showed here so really not sure with it.
@@EFGMC great vid! I wonder if the spinner isn’t actually more in line with your 8 iron shaft idea. While the True Temper site does describe it as more tip active, it also says it’s longer (I assume then trimmed to length) and is a Tour trick. Maybe they are essentially doing with the spinner shaft what you’ve done with the 8-iron shaft? It kind of makes sense because if I’m not mistaken soft stepping generally makes the shaft play softer because of the heavier clubhead.
@@cksamo That is true about the soft stepping, but what we are doing is soft stepping a stiffer shaft so the net result is still stiffer. The X100 8i shaft has a much shorter bottom step vs the S400 wedge so it's easy to see why it's stiffer.
I think I might have a DG Spinner that I pulled for someone laying around. Need to see if I can find it and measure the step pattern.
Just got mr.short game video on this.
It’s hard to believe that this could just be a matter of delivered loft at impact. If that were true, then a 7 iron would spin more than an 8 iron. It could instead be that the shaft flex is also affecting the angle of attack. The more flexible shaft will have a less steep angle of attack, which will give you a lower spin. Imagine that shaft flexing forward through the strike. That would definitely make the angle attack less steep.
When I purchased my MP59's, I added a 50deg gap wedge fitted with a KBS Hi-Rev. I believe they did the same thing and used an 8i shaft.
That Hi-Rev confuses me a bit. I have not tested one but when you read the description, they talk about a more active tip section (much like DG Spinner) which we show here to not be what you want. Do you find you get better spin numbers with it?
@@EFGMC I did not hit it on a launch monitor prior to pulling it so I can't answer that question. I now have S400 shafts in all my dedicated wedges. I've never been one to lack spin anyway and I don't feel like I am sacrificing any with these new shafts in these new wedges. I love these tinker and compare videos, keep them coming
Interesting. I have Modus 105-S in my irons with Modus 120-S “soft stepped” in my wedges. So slightly heavier shaft but a little more kick in the tail so to speak.
So that in theory would give us the opposite result, higher launch with lower spin. At least with full swings where we see more deflection.
AJ, how about a little more information on how to build the club. Do you tip it like an 8 iron and the butt trim to wedge length? Thanks.
Exactly. These were all taper tips so I bought the X100 8i specific shaft, installed straight in, and then butt cut to length.
How do you suggest thinking about this if playing much longer wedges (think 1.5" over). Rest of iron set progressive lengths between 0.5" - 1" over. Would you just use the wedge shaft (in the iron set for Nippon 120 X) rather than the 8i shaft to get a similar effect?
Assuming you are just changing the butt cut length on all these clubs and not doing anything different with tip trimming or hard/soft stepping, then it should still work out the same. The 8 iron shaft one flex up will still be stiffer then the matching wedge shaft if butt trimmed to the same final length.
Hi, would this work with graphite iron shafts in my wedges?
Would putting a Dynamic Gold X100 have the same effect?
Great video, was there a distance difference? Or does flipping launch and spin cancel each other out?
The X100 8i shaft was fractionally longer but they were really close overall.
An interesting idea. I have a surplus of wedges that might be candidates for this treatment. But (and maybe this is a really dumb question) when you trim the 8-iron shaft do you do it from the butt for length only. Thanks!
Yes, assuming the shaft is stiffer than what is in the irons, we are butt trimming only. All the shafts I used in these videos were .355 taper, so you are only ever butt trimming them, as they are factory designed for a specific iron head. You could do the same thing with the stiffer version in a 9/PW shaft but that would make the shaft play significantly stiffer whereas the 8 iron won't feel quite so "boardy".
@@EFGMC You’re the man AJ! Setting up my flighted wedge this week
Mr short game needs to get that 57 deg launching between 25-29 degrees not matter what shaft. 🤞
Hey AJ. Are you cutting the tip or butt to get it to wedge length. thanks and great video
Butt only.
I watched a video of a club fitter put a senior flex graphite shaft in his wedge and he gained higher launch angel and higher spin rate. Curious what the physics are behind that.
AJ - what area do you work out of and do you do clubmaking work for the public?
Would you consider building a full set or 5-PW to test the spin and launch through a set?
I don't see him replying to your comment but if you don't mind my 2 cents worth. It makes perfect sense to me seeings how 5-PW are all approach clubs.
Howard Jones = Club Fitting/Building/teaching GOAT
Agree!
Thanks for all the great videos, AJ!! I currently use Nippon Zelos 7 regular for all my irons. Do you have any shaft recommendation for my wedges if I want to follow this wedge hack? (Zelos 8 stiff 8 iron??) Thanks!
First question is what is in them now, because if they have stock S400 or S200 Dynamic Gold, moving into the Zelos line will make them more flexible (ie less spin, higher launch). However if they are matching or you want everything to play consistently for feel while still taking advantage of this concept, then you will probably want Zelos 8 stiff, but in 9 iron. We choose 8i in Dynamic Gold b/c they only make down to a 9i shaft in that model. Zelos makes a 9i and a wedge so we want the 9i being one step up from the shortest.
@@EFGMC Thanks, AJ! I bought a new set of CBX Zipcore wedges with stock 115 spinner shaft. I tried the stock graphite but felt too stiff and heavy and not balance. Since my irons are using Zelos 7 Regular, I figure I can reshaft them with something similar profile and still take advantage of this concept. Beside Zelos 8, do you have any other shaft recommendation? or Zelos 8 stiff is my best bet? Thanks.
@@kennethlee4906 The Zelos 8 makes sense since the profile will be similar. Plenty of other shafts could work, but may have a little different feel.
@@EFGMC Thanks, AJ!
Smart.
Interesting video AJ. Just to confirm the 8 iron shaft should be completely trimmed from the butt end?
Here because it's a taper tip, yes, only butt cut. Parallel .370 tips would be a different story.
Another great video Abe! Awesome…here’s a question for you…I have AMT White S300 shafts in my irons…so, they are progressive from about 113g i in my 6 iron (after butt trimming), and 122 for the 9 iron…they progress is 3g increments…to do this method what would be the recommended shaft? AMT White X100 8 iron shafts, or should I get the 9 iron one?
You will want the standard DG X100 8 iron shaft, not any of the AMT. The AMT white is essentially the DG S300 in the short irons, so you can treat the progression the same as someone using standard S300s. DG X100 8i shaft will be the best match for weight and flex.
@@EFGMC Perfect. I forgot to add…my set has a GW (48), a 52, 56, and 60. My 52, 56, and 60 are Cleveland Wedges, and my GW matches my set (T100S irons)…do I get the AMT 9 iron shaft for the GW or the DX100 8 iron shaft? I use it for full shots 95% of the time…
@@petegalindez9961 The benefits of the 8i trick are reduced with lower lofted wedges. Really best used with lofts over 54 degrees.
@@EFGMC Got it…so, I’ll do that for my 56/60…
Question for you about shafts. I used to play the DG120X X100’s but recently switched to MMT 105TX’s. My elbows and joints appreciate it a lot. Lol. However MMT also has wedges shafts that you can purchase. Would I do the same and not purchase the wedge shafts and buy the normal 8i MMT 105TX and have them cut down for all my wedges? Or just the SW and/or LW? Also what about the GW? As you stated all 3 of those have the standard steel S300 wedge flex in them.
If you are already in TX flex, things get tricky. Can't use the 8i b/c it's not stiffer than the wedge shaft and that is the key. So the options for you are either find a different shaft that's even stiffer. Not sure if the 125 is stiffer or just heavier than 105. Other option is the tip trim about 3/8inch off a 105TX wedge shaft (ie Tiger stepping). Most tapered hosels can still accommodate a taper tip shaft after that much tipping. Of course since we are talking graphite, you can just sand down the tip a bit if the fit is too tight.
@@EFGMC I did not swap out the GW-LW. I kept those with the S300 shafts. Only swapped the 4-PW into the MMT 105TX. So if I did purchase an MMT 105TX 8i shaft for the wedges they would be stiffer than the S300. The other question is MMT comes in a wedge flex already. Would that be better than the 105TX or the S300?
Excellent video! But.... you never mentioned the effect on distance, when launching lower with more spin....
Distance came out the same, within a few yards.
@@EFGMCwhat about apex
So, where does an X100 iron shaft guy go with his wedges for this hack? (As you know, the DG 9 and PW shafts are the same raw length/step pattern). Why do we see tour pros typically go softer in the high-lofted wedge(s)? Given: Their technique is impeccable so they can control launch.
AJ did you tip trim the 8 iron shaft at all or just butt cutt?? Great video and Howard rocks!
Only butt cut for this method.
@@EFGMC Thanks for responding.... Im going to try it!!
Hey AJ, was wondering if you have any swing number comparisons for partial swings, I find that I rarely hit full shots with most of my wedges, was wondering if this trick would help spin numbers there as well?
We didn't do any partial swings, but in theory it should still work, just not as much.
Very interesting. Do you suggest to do so with all wedges? I carry a 58 / 52 / 46 wedge set and wonder if you recommend your 8i shaft for every of them? Or only for the ones that I use to swing half swings more often? Thank you
The higher lofted wedges benefit more from this. I would probably keep the 46 shaft matching the rest of the irons.
@@EFGMC I am putting the DG 105 X100 8 iron shaft in my 46 degree Vokey SM6 at your suggestion. After testing will probably put this shaft in my 50, 54, and 58 Vokeys. One question that I have is how it will effect feel chipping around the green?
@@pauldavis8286 The idea is that it should feel stiffer, but not way off stiffer. Basically just an extension of the stiffness of the other irons in the set.
@@EFGMC Thanks AJ!
read my comment
Hi , I’m about to try this out but I have a question… I played p790’s and I’ve decided to go with 48, 54, 60 (had 46,50,54and 58 - too many wedges)
So the 48 will be used for full shots and pitching and chipping so is the ball flight significantly lower? ie - do I just reshaft the 54 and 60 or all 3 ?
Thank you
Good question. The lower the stated loft on a club, the less effect you will see from this method, at least as far as spin goes. The 54 and 60 will show more spin increase using it.
Great video AJ and Matt A.K.A Mr. ShortGame. I am looking to do the same thing with my MMT shaft setup. I currently have MMT 95S in my irons and MMT 105W in my wedges. This setup gives me height (too much) in my wedges but lacks distance and spin. MMT doesn't offer X-Stiff in the 95 weight. I'm wondering if using a 105S 8- iron shaft would yield similar results to the hack in your video? Any thoughts on this?
I’m not sure how the flex vs weight works in the MMT line up. Usually as a graphite shaft gets heavier it also gets stiffer but not every time. You might want to move into the 105 TX as they don’t offer straight X. Also will want to use the 9i instead of 8i. 8i is Dynamic Gold specific b/c of the lineup progression (no PW shaft made).
@@EFGMC Excellent, thanks for the info.
Would one get the same result by using an X stiff version of the same shaft? Ex- I use modus 120stiff in my irons. Should I use a modus 120 x stiff in the wedges? My fitter recommended s400 wedge shafts.
Yes. Key is the stiffer shaft flexing less and delivering less loft at impact. If the Modus3 120 X is stiffer than S400, then it works. I know some people say the Modus line runs soft so you might also consider using the X flex wedge shaft (instead of 8i), at least if you are trying to compare against the S400 wedge shaft.
I had two wedges shafted with KBS tour c taper x shafts and hit unbelievable and I play 105 gram dynamic gold's so much different shafts. Clubs got stolen and bought the same wedges with KBS wedge flex shafts and nowhere near the same.
This is interesting and makes a lot of sense…would you recommend tip-trimming the 8 iron shaft at all prior to installing in the wedges?
If you follow the method with the 8i X100, no need to tip anything. You could tip it more but not sure what benefit you would see and the shaft would feel very boardy.
@@EFGMC got it, thank you. I have a ZNE shaft in my 58 and 52 wedges and it’s been one of the best additions to my wedge setup in a long time. I’m thinking about going with the 8i shaft in my PW to get some of the benefits mentioned in your video.
@@bristowmk Remember the lower the loft gets, the less benefit you will see from this specifically with the spin.
D2 is very light swing weight for higher lofted wedges like 56-60
Great video & serious food for thought….Just for clarification, the 8i shaft is tipped and trimmed to be the same length as the wedge shaft, correct? I’m not playing a wedge with a longer shaft. Thanks!
NO, its strait in and butt cut to play length, and the same play length you normally use, so its strait forward
As stated by Hovard, it's not tipped. Only time you would tip is if using .370 parallel blanks. Then you would follow the recommended tipping for an 8 iron.
@@EFGMC Currently play 54 and 58 TSW wedges in R flex. Love 'em and highly recommend them. I have a couple extra TT Score shafts. I play regular flex in all my irons. So I would tip trim for an 8i regular flex and butt trim to my normal wedge play length. Right?
@@laszlokovacs8827 Correction. You would want 8i STIFF flex in order to do it. R flex would end up softer than the matching wedge shaft and would result in higher launch with less spin.
@@EFGMC Got it. Even better as I have an 8i stiff that I can cannibalize. Butt trim to my playing length and I'm set.
Could you set up different sets just for conditions without suffering loss of distance? Wet conditions, dry hard and fast or maybe even Augusta National set up that could change over night depending on the decision of the committee?
For sure if you had identical wedges in loft/lie ext. Did see a slight static weight change between them so not sure if switching back and forth with different weights might have a negative effect if switching day to day??
I Play nippon modus 120S soft stepped in my irons and 120 R flex in my current wedges so slightly lighter shaft in wedges at the moment 👎 I’m looking for new wedges what’s the difference between Modus wedge flex and a #8X be great to hear what I should expect different between the 2 before I make a purchase thanks 👍
I would say the Modus3 wedge S flex will be pretty similar to the 120 8i x flex. The x flex wedge shaft is probably more similar to the Modus 125. The R flex wedge shaft probably close to the Modus 120 stock wedge shaft in Stiff.
This is very interesting! I am currently considering buying new shaft for my wedges. I have 50, 55 and 60 degrees on the wedges as gaping.
I currently play the the project x 7.0 which is a x-stiff 130g shaft. I'm currently considering the Dynamic Gold Tour Issue s100 shafts for my wedges but it might be better to go for project x 7.0 8i shafts instead?
No. That is going the wrong way for this technique. You need a stiffer shaft, and the 8i shaft in the wedges is softer. There really isn't anything stronger than the 7.0 so you would really only have the option of tip trimming a 7.0 if you wanted to get even stiffer. I personally wouldn't recommend this though.
@@EFGMC Thanks a ton for the answer!
Interested in trying this, are you tipping the shaft to an 8 iron then installing into wedge?
If you are using .370 blank shafts, then yes. These were .355 tapers, so it's just a matter of buying the 8 iron specific shaft.
I guess I’m a little confused, as usual. If I order a Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400 black onyx shaft wouldn’t they all be the same length uncut or do they rough cut them per iron?
The raw length is 37 or 37.5 I think. You butt cut them to the final playing length you want. "Standard" is around 35.5
Makes sense to me
This was way more eye opening than I anticipated. As a former wannabe on the pro circuit I have Dynamic Gold X100 shafts in my Titleist blades. I can no longer "load the shaft" because they are too heavy. Back in the day 20 years ago no problem, now not happening. On top of that the lofts of today's equipment is way stronger than it was then. Fascinating and I will be messing around with this. I like that Modus Nippon shaft 105 gram.
I was just looking at my own numbers to compare. Now my head speed was slightly higher at 85 but my launch angle with a standard shaft was 23.5* average so either my swing has considerably more shaft lean or I don't know what. Spin numbers were definitely much higher I had some in the 11k range. Average in the 8500.
Based on Howards post associated with this trick. Since the shortest shaft made by DG is a 9 iron length you are supposed to use that shaft and tip trim. Information from his post on Golfwrx.. "#4 - If #9 is the shortest and stiffest iron shaft like it is for many models.
Use the #9 iron shaft, and Tip trim it "2 shafts stronger" = 1.0 to 1,25" - REAMING OF THE HOSEL TO 0.370 NEEDED ON TAPER TIP"
so how would this affect carry distances? very interested in trying it but have nice gapping with my wedges at the moment and dont want to mess up my yardages
Came out pretty similar. 8i shaft was maybe a yard or so longer, but not much.
Sounds like this could work for me who's currently playing DG120 S300. Question is would I use DG120 X100 or do DG130g X100?
I was thinking my 50, 54, 58 MD5 wedges to be swapped but noticed you didn't think gap wedges needed this from a comment below
I would probably lean towards the 120 weight version but I think anything within 10g will have a good feel as far as consistency through the set.
As for the 50, for consistency of feel it probably makes sense to do all three, my main point there is you probably won't see the kind of difference we see in the higher lofts. But if you are doing the others, and especially if you are changing shaft weights, I would do them all.
Thanks AJ - did you tip or butt trim the 8 iron shaft?
Taper tip shaft used so only butt trimming to final playing length.