Dave here - I'm naturally safety conscious and over the last few months I've noticed a few more videos showing kayaking over and on weirs. This video is my take on the dangers of weirs - what do you think? What's your experience? I'd love to know.
I've been taught to be very careful around any river, and until I was competent I was told to stay away from all of these until I could reasonably gauge what I could and couldn't do, and from my experience I'm happy they made sure I took a careful approach to these issues. Experience is crucial in my opinion before any weir is played in.
You have to be really careful around these things. The one we saw with the brown colored water are the most dangerous. You aren’t getting out plus your gonna get pummeled by tree stumps and other debris. Almost certain death. Not all weirs are dangerous but you really need to know which ones are dangerous
I play in most weirs but I am experienced and skilled enough to do so. With weirs it is similar to driving at night. You can't quite tell what is a few feet away from you but you rely on your driving skill to be able to break in time. In a Kayak if one can rely on his / her skill and experience then playing in a weir is like driving at night. Sometimes eary and less save but all in all not a problem.
Maaaan, I had the fear of God put into me about weirs in whitewater rescue training, so the thought of a weir being a "fun playspot" had me like 👁👄👁 Here in Canada, we tend to call them low-head dams. In the US, you sometimes see signs that call them drowning machines! I wonder...is there a difference in construction between weirs in the UK and weirs in North America? Are our weirs more dangerous?
Hello! Thanks for your comment. I think you might be right. Weirs in the UK vary enormously from gentle slopes to vertical drops. It's common for UK paddlers to play on weirs especially ones with waves or formed stoppers. In fact we have competitions (play boating and slaloms) on some. The dangers are not drummed home as much because of this. As you pointed out, low-head dams (which are seen in the UK but not much) are much more common in the US and Canada. These are deadly in most water levels so therefore no playing/paddling is encouraged. I really appreciate you taking the time to get in touch and greetings from the UK!
Given the size of the US and Canada the rivers tend to be 'slower' and wider, but still in need of flow control across the plains, so the low head dams are frequent (lots of territory that has them) and simple, and are essentially a brick wall between two abutments (to stop side erosion), so no escape from the full width stopper (hydraulic), especially in higher, more 'interesting' flows. It doesn't help that safer ("smiling" rapids) make for a more difficult construction and awareness in advance (i.e. included in the planning stage and codes of practice)
I know of a case near me where one guy drowned trying to get his kayak out of a weir. He could have been completely fine. Also on that particular river the kayak would have been around even the next few days. What I am trying to say is: Don't be stupid twice and jump back in a weir.
Iron works: older weirs often have repairs made by filing hessian sacks with sand cement mix and then pinning (length of rebar) them into the existing weir to fill holes and support unstable parts. Over time these bags can eroded leaving the rust sharpened rebar protruding. A few years back there was concerted effort to trim many of these back on the stanley weir on the river Tay. Anything Victorian or earlier is likely to have iron spikes all over the place (inc fencing extending into the river banks)..
Thanks for the comment. Yes, around the world weirs can be different which changes the dangers - sometimes safer. You should inspect the weir and make a safe choice. Have fun and great paddling. 👍🛶
I'm still shocked these things are allowed to exist. Forget kayakers, imagine a kid falling into one. They should have designed in kickouts so a swimmer has a chance to move to the side and be freed.
I agree. In fairness, many are being re-designed to allow fish to easily spawn back upstream. This can make them a little safer. Thanks for your comment.
The same weir in different water conditions can go from boat wrecking to fabulous playspot to lethal killer in just a few inches more or less. Any vertical drop, no matter how small, especially contained at the edges, can grab, hold & re-circulate you endlessly. Safe rescue often has to be by rope from the bank, not from another canoe.
Every white water kayaker should be well aware of the issue of weirs. It's a matter of power and extent though. A softer fall and partial stopper/hydraulic can be a fun play spot as long as you can work your way to the end & wash out into the main channel. But weirs generally have consistent volume flow & steep drop which creates a very deep aerated hole and strong back flow, not just a play surfing wave. So a swimmer can not swim either down or upstream, nor can they keep their head above the surface, as the aerated water & down flow does not provide sufficient buoyancy to obtain breathable air, not even with a white water rated buoyance vest. Nor can they work their way to one end. The swimmer will be totally blind, disoriented & unable to breathe at all. The only chance a swimmer has is to dive to the bottom of the stream in hopes that the down stream flow (found only along the bottom) will wash them out beyond the surface backflow. It's a dangerous move because limbs may get entrapped in boulders and other debris & the currant will overpower any attempts to get free. It's not a great prospect, but the reality is that this can be a swimmers one & only option. It sometimes works but sometimes does not. So just avoid all weirs altogether, because experienced white water paddlers generally regarded them as the most dangerous death traps found on rivers whether man made or natural. Just don't go there, there are plenty of safer fun play spots on rivers.
Hello Ken. Many thanks for the comprehensive reply - I fully support what you have said and appreciate you taking time to comment. Stay safe and happy paddling.
Very sound advice Ken. Sadly, the very people who need to watch Dave & Ed's video and read your excellent reply, will be the ones who never do. The sheer power of moving water, even shallow water, is immense and, in the case of rivers, RELENTLESS. It is that relentlessness which will kill, no matter how fit, smart or strong you are. They are not called drowning machines for no reason, sadly.
The irony of whitewater is that while it can pin you into a bad situation, the force and buoyancy can sometimes push you out of that situation. And even with prior knowledge of a run, water can move rocks, or there's a strainer there that wasn't there the day before. Never underestimate the power of moving water.
Is that Nafford Weir on the Avon? That was my local play spot for years! Got dangerous in flood as the stopper crept up the weir and spread in front of the bridge pillar
It is indeed! That was at high water as you point out. Very dangerous. Here it is on a more relaxed level though: ua-cam.com/video/R-eLHgwzVMc/v-deo.htmlsi=eZyOyvw_rvlhOhl3 - Thanks for your comment.
@@EdDaveKayaking believe or not you can helix in that stopper when it’s got enough water going down Still scraped my helmet though Also, used to surf it on the paddle board but the shelf drops away quickly and you’re left with some boulders that can hurt your ankles if you’re not careful
In most cases, strong towbacks are best escaped by swimming down as the water will carry you under the towback and then resurface below the hole. That might be difficult though if the life vest is too buoyant.
Dave here - I'm naturally safety conscious and over the last few months I've noticed a few more videos showing kayaking over and on weirs. This video is my take on the dangers of weirs - what do you think? What's your experience? I'd love to know.
I've been taught to be very careful around any river, and until I was competent I was told to stay away from all of these until I could reasonably gauge what I could and couldn't do, and from my experience I'm happy they made sure I took a careful approach to these issues. Experience is crucial in my opinion before any weir is played in.
@@spud4169 Great advice - thank you for the comment.
You have to be really careful around these things. The one we saw with the brown colored water are the most dangerous. You aren’t getting out plus your gonna get pummeled by tree stumps and other debris. Almost certain death. Not all weirs are dangerous but you really need to know which ones are dangerous
@@derekrupp7844 Thanks for your comment. Yes, it's good to keep learning too. Safety is never a full stop - always a continuous journey. Stay safe.
I play in most weirs but I am experienced and skilled enough to do so. With weirs it is similar to driving at night. You can't quite tell what is a few feet away from you but you rely on your driving skill to be able to break in time. In a Kayak if one can rely on his / her skill and experience then playing in a weir is like driving at night. Sometimes eary and less save but all in all not a problem.
As a new whitewater kayaker, your video's are excellent and much appreciated!
Thank and glad you like them!
Great video! Showing trees circulating really brings it together.
Thanks for your positive comment. Yes, those types of weir are really dangerous. Stay safe.
Maaaan, I had the fear of God put into me about weirs in whitewater rescue training, so the thought of a weir being a "fun playspot" had me like 👁👄👁
Here in Canada, we tend to call them low-head dams. In the US, you sometimes see signs that call them drowning machines! I wonder...is there a difference in construction between weirs in the UK and weirs in North America? Are our weirs more dangerous?
Hello! Thanks for your comment. I think you might be right. Weirs in the UK vary enormously from gentle slopes to vertical drops. It's common for UK paddlers to play on weirs especially ones with waves or formed stoppers. In fact we have competitions (play boating and slaloms) on some. The dangers are not drummed home as much because of this. As you pointed out, low-head dams (which are seen in the UK but not much) are much more common in the US and Canada. These are deadly in most water levels so therefore no playing/paddling is encouraged. I really appreciate you taking the time to get in touch and greetings from the UK!
Given the size of the US and Canada the rivers tend to be 'slower' and wider, but still in need of flow control across the plains, so the low head dams are frequent (lots of territory that has them) and simple, and are essentially a brick wall between two abutments (to stop side erosion), so no escape from the full width stopper (hydraulic), especially in higher, more 'interesting' flows.
It doesn't help that safer ("smiling" rapids) make for a more difficult construction and awareness in advance (i.e. included in the planning stage and codes of practice)
I know of a case near me where one guy drowned trying to get his kayak out of a weir. He could have been completely fine. Also on that particular river the kayak would have been around even the next few days. What I am trying to say is: Don't be stupid twice and jump back in a weir.
Thanks for your comment.
"Don't be stupid twice," is my new life motto. Thank you for that. 🤙
Iron works: older weirs often have repairs made by filing hessian sacks with sand cement mix and then pinning (length of rebar) them into the existing weir to fill holes and support unstable parts. Over time these bags can eroded leaving the rust sharpened rebar protruding. A few years back there was concerted effort to trim many of these back on the stanley weir on the river Tay. Anything Victorian or earlier is likely to have iron spikes all over the place (inc fencing extending into the river banks)..
Oh yes! I have seen many weirs like this. Appreciate your comment.
Thanks for posting
No problem! Thanks for your comment. Hope you are enjoying your paddling.
Here in Czech Republic, weirs on main rivers are mostly reconstructed and completely safe for canoists, but that's boring for kayakers I guess. 😀
Thanks for the comment. Yes, around the world weirs can be different which changes the dangers - sometimes safer. You should inspect the weir and make a safe choice. Have fun and great paddling. 👍🛶
I open canoe..
brilliant video
Thank you!
Low head dams in America.
Those are very dangerous. Thanks for the comment.
hydraulic jumps are so deadly
Thanks for your comment. You are right. Really important that we understand these features on rivers and weirs so we can paddle safely. Have fun.
I'm still shocked these things are allowed to exist. Forget kayakers, imagine a kid falling into one. They should have designed in kickouts so a swimmer has a chance to move to the side and be freed.
I agree. In fairness, many are being re-designed to allow fish to easily spawn back upstream. This can make them a little safer. Thanks for your comment.
The same weir in different water conditions can go from boat wrecking to fabulous playspot to lethal killer in just a few inches more or less.
Any vertical drop, no matter how small, especially contained at the edges, can grab, hold & re-circulate you endlessly.
Safe rescue often has to be by rope from the bank, not from another canoe.
Thanks for your comment. Great points. Keep safe and happy paddling.
Every white water kayaker should be well aware of the issue of weirs. It's a matter of power and extent though. A softer fall and partial stopper/hydraulic can be a fun play spot as long as you can work your way to the end & wash out into the main channel. But weirs generally have consistent volume flow & steep drop which creates a very deep aerated hole and strong back flow, not just a play surfing wave. So a swimmer can not swim either down or upstream, nor can they keep their head above the surface, as the aerated water & down flow does not provide sufficient buoyancy to obtain breathable air, not even with a white water rated buoyance vest. Nor can they work their way to one end. The swimmer will be totally blind, disoriented & unable to breathe at all. The only chance a swimmer has is to dive to the bottom of the stream in hopes that the down stream flow (found only along the bottom) will wash them out beyond the surface backflow. It's a dangerous move because limbs may get entrapped in boulders and other debris & the currant will overpower any attempts to get free. It's not a great prospect, but the reality is that this can be a swimmers one & only option. It sometimes works but sometimes does not. So just avoid all weirs altogether, because experienced white water paddlers generally regarded them as the most dangerous death traps found on rivers whether man made or natural. Just don't go there, there are plenty of safer fun play spots on rivers.
Hello Ken. Many thanks for the comprehensive reply - I fully support what you have said and appreciate you taking time to comment. Stay safe and happy paddling.
Very sound advice Ken. Sadly, the very people who need to watch Dave & Ed's video and read your excellent reply, will be the ones who never do. The sheer power of moving water, even shallow water, is immense and, in the case of rivers, RELENTLESS. It is that relentlessness which will kill, no matter how fit, smart or strong you are. They are not called drowning machines for no reason, sadly.
The irony of whitewater is that while it can pin you into a bad situation, the force and buoyancy can sometimes push you out of that situation. And even with prior knowledge of a run, water can move rocks, or there's a strainer there that wasn't there the day before. Never underestimate the power of moving water.
Thank you for your comment. Brilliant advice! Stay safe and paddle well.
Is that Nafford Weir on the Avon?
That was my local play spot for years! Got dangerous in flood as the stopper crept up the weir and spread in front of the bridge pillar
It is indeed! That was at high water as you point out. Very dangerous. Here it is on a more relaxed level though: ua-cam.com/video/R-eLHgwzVMc/v-deo.htmlsi=eZyOyvw_rvlhOhl3 - Thanks for your comment.
@@EdDaveKayaking believe or not you can helix in that stopper when it’s got enough water going down
Still scraped my helmet though
Also, used to surf it on the paddle board but the shelf drops away quickly and you’re left with some boulders that can hurt your ankles if you’re not careful
Love the video Dave! Keep it up!
Thanks! Will do!
In most cases, strong towbacks are best escaped by swimming down as the water will carry you under the towback and then resurface below the hole. That might be difficult though if the life vest is too buoyant.
Thanks for the comment. Certainly it is worth a try. Keep safe.
is stopper the british term for hole?
It is. Thank you for your comment.
No. 1 is a straight out drowning machine
Agreed! Thanks for your comment. Stay safe and happy paddling.
What is the location of the weir with the warning sign at the beginning of the video?
It's on the River Salwarpe as it flows through Droitwich Spa. A small river but it does change dramatically when in flood. Thanks for the comment.