Tom really is a gift Sybil gave to her family. The strength, intelligence & wisdom that Sybil saw in him blossomed with her & helped him to became indispensable to them all. Even the Dowwager came to respect & value him. Tom's acceptance into the family is my favorite aspect of Downtown Abbey!
Mary has always been her worst enemy. This entire episode was all about that. No one was allowed to be happy when Mary was having a hard time, least of all Edith. She didn’t tell on Edith because she thought Bertie deserved the truth. She told him because she couldn’t bear to be outranked by her sister, and because she was upset that Henry left. And worst of all, she KNEW she was wrong. That’s why she sent Carson out of the room, and that’s why she can’t even bring herself to look at Tom.
Mary shouldn't have said it, but don't forget that Edith was sitting there intentionally provoking her. "Oh, her beau is gone and she can't stand when MY life is better than hers.." 🙄
What I love about this scene is that Tom has really taken on Sybil's role in the family in a lot of ways. He really loves both Mary and Edith and thinks of them as sisters, he tried to get between them and reconcile the situation, but there's just way too much history and animosity between them now.
@@elinanderzon2922 Mary and Edith are like Isobel and Violet. Two forces of nature. Anyone who gets between them risks being torn to pieces immediately. At least with Violet and Isobel, the entire village is forewarned so it's easier to avoid collateral damage.
This bugs me. In the first scene Edith is trying to tell him her life is complicated, she's clearly saying there are things about her life they will need to talk about before getting married. And he doesn't want to listen and decides to take it as a yes. Then, at the end, the reason they can't be together is because she didn't tell him, and he didn't know if she would have. Well, she tried and he ignored her.
Yes! He was way too simple. Of course she didn’t want him to think lesser of her. I wish he would have been more understanding. Edith spent years hiding huge parts of her life. Everyone she loved had to be a secret.
Agreed!!! Then when they were walking outside before he left why didnt she say....this is what I was illuding to last night. I was trying to tell you there is more for you to know. ????
I know. I HATE Mary. Always have since the first season. I don't think she deserved one good thing or the happy ending she got. I loved when Tom tore her to shreds but I'm disappointed that he didn't pull the 'What would Matthew and Sybil think of you' card. If there was any time to really punish her then that was the moment to use it. I was disappointed that Robert, Rosamund, and Cora didn't get to tear her to shreds because they really were going to. Granny was far to affectionate with Mary when she told her off. She should have been in full matriarchal Lady Grantham mode and put Mary in her proper place. That would have been so satisfying to see.
Rosie Hamlin I love Mary. I honestly dont care what Mary does it’s hard for me to hate her. Edith never helped from the beginning so yeah. Edith was just as a b**** in the beginning
Wish you showed the part after where Tom absolutely decimated Mary for the stunt she pulled. “You’re a bully, Mary. And like all bullies, you’re a coward”
That was wrong by the show. It wasn’t Tom place to scold Mary that hard. It should have been Cora or Robert. Ever since Sybil died, Tom took her place in terms of the relation between Mary and Edith which is to be neutral no matter the vitriol. I understand that he was disappointed in Mary but he went too hard on her.
@@rayleigh8 nah I completely disagree. It wouldn’t have had the same effect coming from Cora or Robert. She respected Tom as her peer and her brother so his opinion had more of an impact on her than a scolding from her parents would have. He told her what she needed to hear, Cora and Robert would have been more gentle on her because she was clearly the favorite daughter.
@rayleigh8 Actually, Mary deserved Tom's lecture! It's not like Tom was lying. Mary has an ugly, nasty side to her. You would think with her breeding, smarts, and sense, she would control, and master it. But, No! Mary regressed to a 3 year old fighting over a piddling doll just because Edith is playing with it! Get your dang act together, Mary Crawley!
Let's all be honest, Cora and Robert have enabled this behavior between Mary and Edith. They most often offer slaps on the wrist and disappointed stares than real chastisement. No...Tom was the right person to smack Mary down because only he had the write frame of mind to call a spade a spade and NOT spare her feels like they would have.
Can you tell me what you like about Mary? I seriously don't understand how people find her a likeable character. I just don't get it. I feel like we're supposed to be on her side, but she's just so rude all the time.
@@mckenna8663 With pleasure. I guess what I really like about her is that she is a complex, often contradictory character. She values tradition, but is also a visionary; she can be a great romantic while also being cold and emotionless; she is capable of great kindness, but is also vindictive and nasty; at times she shows great intelligence and emotional maturity, but at others she is petty and impulsive, and her behavior borders on being adolescent and childish. That complexity and that contradiction is something she shares with another favorite of mine, Barrow. Most of all, of all three sisters (all three of which I really love), she is the one I identify with the most, in the sense that she is not really... open, if that makes any sense. I feel like when Mary is overwhelmed by her feelings and emotions, she is more likely to shut herself up in her room than really talk openly about it, unless it was with someone she absolutely trusted, like Anna. That's something I probably would do.
@@mckenna8663 Lady Sybill was the "Glue" that held this Trio of Sisters together. She was a referee between her 2 sisters and the Moral High Ground for each of them to follow. She PALED in comparison to either of them. #ThankGod When she died that bond was Shattered in a million pieces. It became a Winner Take All. Lady Mary being the eldest thrived on the attention from Carson, her Suitors and even her parents. Lady Edith grew up in her sister's unfavorable shadow. Lady Edith said it Best, "We're sisters. One day you and I will be the only ones to remember Granny, Ma, Papa, Carson, Mrs. Hughes and all of the countless people who have peopled our youth."
It amazes me how Edith stopped Bertie from telling them they're getting married to spare Mary's feelings, yet Mary still ruined Edith relationship out of pure, petty spite.
Are we watching the same clip? Edith wasn’t sparing her feelings, she hurled multiple insults before Mary said anything. Mary was being a bitch here, but it’s not like she was unprovoked. Everyone acts like she’s a bitch to Edith and Edith doesn’t act the same way, but that’s never been the truth of their relationship.
Cleptrio at first she tried to spare Mary. Check Mary’s reaction and it pissed off Edith . At the dinner the night before Mary was openly scowling at Edith at the table.
@@lisarandleman6141 True. Edith hates Mary's arrogance. And thats what she was portraying when she asked why wasnt that a good moment. Edith knew Mary knew what she meant but was acting all mighty like always. You cant blame Edith for letting the "abandoned" word slip. She always recieves so much desdain from Mary, and she probably wanted to humble her down.
Night...someone like Edith or anyone who is not that strong (character) needs an ally - Mary didn't need help! You see, as an older sister, you take brunt for most misdeeds of the other sibling/s so the eldest has the priviledge of rank (in any household).
@@marinazagrai1623 I don't know which misdeeds are you talking about because as far I know Edith and Sybil never messed up badly like mary in entire series.
Edith even said “it’s not the right moment” because she didn’t want to rub it in Mary’s face after her boyfriend up and left for London without even telling her. She was trying to be a good sister and Mary still acts despicably pushing everyone over the edge. Tom looks so upset too it just kills me
Edith says "this isn't the right moment" then when Mary tries to act fine, Edith says "you've just been abandoned." Then goes straight into the winey "See Mary can't stand it when things are going better for me than for her!" No excuses, Mary's finishing of what Edith started was horrible.
ChildOfDarkDefiance YESSSS Edith annoys me so bad with her “woe is me” whining all the time! When 90% of the situations she ends up in are her own fault. At least Mary can own up to her faults in the end.
ChildOfDarkDefiance so what should she say? Isn’t that why she didn’t want to tell Mary? She knows that Mary may not be happy hearing it after Henry left.
ChildOfDarkDefiance I think both cannot bare any longer, Edith was unhappy after the look that Mary gave when Tom said that “we are happy for you both”, so she thought Mary doesn’t like to be outranked by her as Mary always does. It is reasonable why Mary wasn’t happy. Mary wasn’t happy because she thought that Edith was trying to shame her by straight pointing out what happened between Mary and Henry. They both was very emotional, but it just was justifiable for Mary to ruin what Edith has wished for many years. Edith was never given any attention compare to her two sisters as if she’s nothing.
I admire the way Edith handled herself in the aftermath. She knew she was in the wrong and that Bertie had every right to feel the way that he did. I'm amazed that she so quickly reconciled herself to him leaving, even though it was hurting her. Oh well, que sera sera and c'est la vie!
Shows a lot of growth. Three seasons ago, she was a wreck after being jilted at the altar, and since then she'd been tested plenty and has gained the confidence to know things a lot more clearly.
I feel she acted in such a calm way because deep down she feared this would be the outcome even if she had been the one to tell him before Mary did so she had time to prepare for that outcome and guard her heart.
@Ash Agreed... She'd pretty much felt it was all just too good to be true for someone like her. Which, sadly, meant that all the years of somewhat self-inflicted but also often unfair misfortunes dovetailed with Mary's belittlement had taken some unfortunate, emotional effect. Which in large part is what she was hinting at the night prior, in the upstairs hallway when she told Bertie, "I'm no longer as simple as I used to be, and I just want to be certain I'm being realistic, and not dragging you into a fool's paradise with me."
I wonder what Sybil would’ve thought about Marigold (I think she would live marigold just as much as she would’ve loved George) no matter if she was out of wedlock or not and I do think she would’ve been disappointed in Mary
What kills me is Bertie's face as they talk. You can see that he's still so in love with Edith and doesn't want to walk away. Marvelous acting. Well done'
No, if Mary is miserable she makes sure that everybody else are just as miserable. If I remember correctly she also made a heartless comment on how Lord Grantham had once been eager for Barrows' departure from Downton, just as the family had been informed about his attempted suicide.
@@lindaandersen5723 There are different ways of interpreting that. I think, however, that the whole family was extremely grateful to Barrow after he saved Edith and the household from the fire. That, I think, was long before the attempted suicide and long after Lord Grantham had sought Barrow's departure from Downton. You may recall that Barrow was a conniving, evil character in those earliest seasons. Hardly anyone liked him. The only person he actually got along with was Mrs. O'Brien and even she turned against him before her departure from Downton. Mrs. O'Brien, herself, was a piece of work. (But for her, Lord Grantham may have had his male heir.)
@Jayson Davis That's what sisters do. My little sisters are absolute irritants sometimes, but I'll be damned if I embarrass them or hurt them in a public setting. Mary's always treated Edith like crap, even after they lost a sister. I liked Mary but she was a nightmare at times, I loved Edith's growth throughout the series.
@Jayson Davis and Mary paid her in the same coin like 20 seasons ago. Pamuk scandal had nothing to do with this scene. Plus, Mary used her own niece (a baby) to hurt her sister. That was mean
Those two girls, I swear. Between Pamuk, Mathew, Strallan, and Bertie the Crawley girls were vicious to each other. I hoped Sybil's death would have put things into perspective for them, but Mary just couldn't help herself. If she's not happy, no one else can be either. At least Edith extended the olive branch after Sybil passed away.
If you think about it from Mary's side, Edith goaded her into it by saying Mary's 'lost her man and I'm getting married and she can't stand it.' Both of them are still into poking each other with a stick.
@@peg202xo7 Yeah, Edith was far from innocent. At least Mary had one or two redeemable qualities, but I had a really hard time liking Edith. I felt sorry that she was often forgotten about in the family and had bad luck when it came to romance but, other than that, she was kind of exasperating. To her credit though, she did ask Mary if they could get along better in the future and Mary said no. At least Edith was willing to try.
L Oliver I always preferred Mary as well. I think she actually had more redeeming qualities and was more modern thinking. Think about her relationship with Carson and Anna, whereas Edith was almost never shown as caring about the servants. I especially remember Edith’s reaction to Carson spilling wine on her when he was having a heart attack! Mary was also much less shocked by Rose’s brief romance with the black musician. I also don’t think Mary would have kept the Marigold secret had she been in that position. Nor would she have complained about her life the way Edith did in the movie. All that said, she was particularly vicious in this moment. Though, I do love her throwing back her head at 3:10 after she landed the killing blow. Lol
@@peg202xo7 to be fair that last season was about Mary playing around with 3 suitors. It was fairly ironic that she ended alone and Edith, with an illegitimate child, was about to get married
The part that has always seemed the most heartless to me about this isn't even the effect on Edith so much as that she's deliberately sabotaging a potential future family for Marigold, her two-year-old niece. There's an interesting symmetry that the first season ended with Edith nuking Mary with a petty scandal and season six featured Mary doing the same -- though the passage of something like 11 years in-universe isn't especially favourable to Mary, who you'd hope would have grown more by this point.
@@danedee6563 And Mary already had her revenge by sabotaging Edith's wedding with the old man. He left her on the altar, all due to Mary's manipulative words.
You have to think like these people to know how bad it is. George is about to acquire a wealthy marquis as an uncle, a man with much more pull than his mother's family. You saw how thrilled Lord Grantham was at the news; it's a boost in prestige for the entire family, not just Edith. And Mary throws all that away for spite.
confusing for the niece for sure, but she's in a much better situation than most. Anyway, like ppl suggest, mary's biggest enemy is herself, and i'd say that edith had it coming. whats really heartless is tearing a child who has been cared for (marigold) like a toy and ruining that parents mental health, she prances around and has suffered no consequence for that, meanwhile, mary resolved all of these issues quickly.
Such a sad breakup. Edith's strength is on display here, and behind that strength is a lifetime of hard lessons learned, and of hopes that died prematurely. She has learned to become cautious when happiness becomes too good to be true. She was holding herself back from fully be loved/ accepted. So glad that it ended well for her eventually.
One thing I loved is how much Tom is one of the family. That knowing look he and Robert shared when Mary asked about Henry. Being disappointed with Mary for ruining things for Edith. And for being angry that Edith’s chances have been ruined.
Yeah it's great for everyone but Tom. He doesn't get to be happy, he just has to stick around being there for his wonderful wife's two feuding sisters. This is why I hate this show, the bad get rewarded and the good get punished or barely more. Robert is actually a villain but never gets treated as one. Mary is vile and practically unredeemable. Sybil, Matthew, Lavinia, William.....all the best are gone. It feels like that's the message. I still love Tom and Edith, the rest can bite me.
@@Furienna I wouldn't call him a villain but he definitely does a lot of bad things that nobody ever really holds him accountable for. He cheats on his wife while she's fighting for her life with Spanish flu, he tries to put all his money in a Ponzi scheme despite more economically informed people telling him that it's a bad idea, he allows his daughter to die in childbirth because he'd rather listen to a fancy doctor than the country doctor.....and on and on
Having a child out of wedlock was one of the most scandalous things a woman could do in the early 20th century. Bertie should have been more understanding of Edith's hesitation to tell him.
I wish Bertie could see that Edith was holding back on him for a reason. She told him several times in so many ways that she had a secret. He should have picked up on that.
I always thought fans who attacked Edith as "bitchy" and "fake", didn't realize how truly brave, honest, humble, kind, loving, mature, self-deprecating, low-key confident she was, ultimately sophisticated, and REAL Edith actually became. Particularly, as compared to Mary, and even to a large degree, Sybil. Cases and points --to name but a few: how Edith quietly and unassumingly cared for and comforted wounded and convalescing soldiers, never even expecting appreciation; how she fought to never give up on her daughter and making her life better; how she taught herself to drive; and to become a successful and strong businesswoman, years before her time, and, how on the night of the awfully tragic death of poor Charles Rogers, when Bertie proposed to Edith, stating, "you know I'm mad about you", Edith replies, incredulously, "I've never thought I was the type of girl that men could be mad about." A phrase you'd never hear Mary say in a million years!
Edith was my favorite. She has shown so much growth and maturity throughout the seasons. Mary got everything because she was the first born and Sybil was the baby and the beautiful one. Edith was the typical middle child. I think she was the best of the bunch even though they all underestimated her.
Edith has many wonderful qualities, but she wasn't perfect by any means. She was the one who spread the gossip about Mary and Pamuk, she tried to start an affair with Mr Drake and got cranky when his wife told her to leave, she pressured Anthony Strallan into a marriage he clearly didn't want, pulled Marigold from her adoptive families twice (trauma both for the families and the little girl), and has several smaller moments when she was either getting in the way of her own happiness or trying to get in the way of Mary's. Like this clip.. where she could have just been quiet, but provoked Mary by going on about "oh, Mary can't stand it when my life is better than hers!" and then got upset when Mary fired back. (No, Mary shouldn't have said what she did, but Edith DID provoke her.)
@@FishTanksAreCatTVs At the time of Pamuk's death you gotta figure Edith was less mature and understandably bitter about the way Mary always mistreated her, and so, however petty it was, Edith saw and took her chance to at some payback. However, I do agree with you about Mr. Drake. Both were at fault in that one. As for Strallan. It's wasn't that he "didn't want" to marry Lady Edith. He did. However, he nobly and probably rightly felt that despite their love, and how happy she'd likely make him, he loved her too much to allow his advanced age to hamper her growth and chance at true happiness with a man closer to her own age. So he jilted her out of true love, while her true love was that age didn't matter. As for Marigold and the Drews, Edith should have never had to hide who Marigold was or give her up, to start with. But you know, there's those pesky judgemental snooty dumb English sensibilities and all, getting in the way of BIOLOGICAL REALITIES! That said, I also somewhat agree that Edith provoked Mary somewhat, here, but come on... this is Mary we're talking, here. So one can't help but get the feeling that once Mary knew the truth about Marigold, then sooner than later, if for no other reason than out slight envy for Edith's good fortune with this newly minted Marquess, Bertie, Mary was going to find some way to try to sabotage Edith, no matter what. Unfortunately, Edith hastined Mary's wrath with her comment about Henry.
Remember how jealous Mary was when the attention was brought to Edith at dinner when she was being recognized for convalescing the soldiers which she kept quiet. Mary only volunteered to help for self interest when she heard Matthew was hurt and brought in. Edith did it out of her own good nature.
Edith has her own share of bitchiness. Spreading the story of Pakmut's death had the sole purpose of ruining Mary's life. Edith came onto the farmer she was driving the tractor for even though she knew quite well he was married. Edith had an affair with a man she knew was married and could not get a divorce because his wife was in a mental institution. Edith bore his child and tried to escape the social consequences by having a long-term tenant foster the child, then destroyed that family and its history with the Crawley's by taking the child back. Mary may have been mean to Edith, but she was never as self-centered as Edith. Mary was kind not just to Anna, but to William and the other servants. As you can tell, I'm not a fan of Edith.
Worst .. she only became kind-ish when Mathew married her and once he is gone she is back to miserable snobbish evil Mary. She did this to her sister willingly .. she knew what Edith wanted to keep aside as Henry left her but she had to show herself as strong and capable. I hate how childish and selfish she is. She broke her sister's heart on purpose and knowing her sister watched a man leave her on alter, she didn't mind to do that to her now! Evil and just horrible.
Mary's head tilt at 3:07 is ICONIC. I loved watching how heartless she was in this scene, and I loved the fight scene where Edith calls her a bitch even more.
And looking at Tom like "can you believe this?" like she didn't effin start it 2 seconds ago.... Mary is a B*** and I'm glad Edith still got her happy ending or I would have revolted.
Edith wrote to the ambassador about Mr Pamuk and called her sister a "slut" - she pretends to be a sweet rose, while her own thighs are open for every Tom, Harry and Dick!
And this is the scene where we find out that Edith became a much better and matured woman than Mary. Mary had had so many suitors in the past, but Edith did not spoil it for her. She just patiently waited for a better man, became an editor and evolved into a truly modern woman of her time. People often say that Mary behaved like this because she was just jealous, but I would argue that it was far more than that. Since the beginning of the show, Mary had been in the limelight and Edith was a neglected middle child. But finally when Edith had some spotlight, Mary could not swallow it. Edith summed it up perfectly later on, that "it was the same Mary who wanted her cake and hate me too". Mary is a perfect example of a spoilt child, because of parent's pampering, and Edith is that child who matured from the environment and life lessons, because no one was there for her. Remember that scene when Edith received news of Gregson's death and Mary had a haircut? Instead of comforting her and staying with her, her parents took off to a picnic, without even turning a deaf ear towards her sorrow. Edith made her own mistakes, accepted her past and rose from the ashes. Mary never had that, so she remain far more immature even till the end. I hated Edith in Season 1 (I am not going to lie), but she came so far in Season 6. I know she wrote to Turkish Embasador (which I remember actually hapenned because Mary catapulted her), but it was not as damaging as this scenario. Mary deserved a slap here.
I agree that Mary deserved a slap. But one thing I don't like is how Edith whines that nobody cares about her when we NEVER see her care about anyone either. Mary has deep friendships with Anna and Carson, we see her talk to Sybil about Tom and the baby, there are many scenes where we see Mary really care about people but we never see that coming from Edith. Caring about people and giving them attention aren't one way streets, you have to put something out there too.
@@lisahuber9329 You have a point. But I think that Edith is quite insecure, and she feels that no one needs her. That is why, she keeps to herself. Everyone in the house has a favourite; Mary is Robert's and Carson's favourite, Sybil was Cora's and Mrs Hughes's favourite, but Edith was no one's favourite. Shw was love-hungry, because no one really liked her. She just existed like a shallow of a person. Ofcourse it makes you think that you are unwanted, therefore becoming completely uninterested in everyone else.
@@sammihom15 not to mention she was the one taking care of William. And i am pretty sure that most of the downstairs staff prefer Edith over Mary, especially mrs. Hughes and Daisy. Not to mention she has shown to care allot more about Mary's feelings then the other way around. Telling her about Matthew disappearing despite her fathers trust in holding it a secret, comforting her when she thought Henry had a car crash, hiding her letters from Michael from Mary to not make her feel sad 6 MONTHS after Matthew died.
@@mystique592 the end result would be the same. Edith’s “fiancé” would still have been caught off guard with news that he should have been told privately.
If Mary REALLY loved Matthew, she would have honored his memory by continuing to nurture the "softness" he was finding in her, and having some compassion for her sister, talking to her sister in private, instead of being the uppity snob and destroying her sisters hopes and dreams. Mary was dispicable!!
What I hate more about Mary right here is that she is using HER OWN NIECE, Marigold, for her own revenge. She is telling everyone that an innocent baby is illegitimate, thus ruining her reputation and future. As a mother, Mary should know better than that
Nesseire Thank you, this is such an under-appreciated point! Not just as a mother but as a woman whose reputation and future have repeatedly been threatened by her night with Pamuk and then much later after spending a weekend with that other guy whose name escapes me. She‘s a grown woman using a toddler to score points against her sister.
I really love how Tom also held respect within the family, especially with the sisters. They treat him like a brother and he acts like one too! Mary deserved Tom's comment of her being a coward, she just needed someone she respected to talk it out of her lmao
Everyone seems to forget that Cora and Robert were already planning on telling Bertie about Marigold themselves, since they thought it was wrong for Edith to marry him without telling the truth.
Cora and Rosamund wanted to tell him. Cora was tempted to tell him herself. I doubt she would have gone through with it. Robert was like, but he's a marquis he doesn't need to know
Cora and Robert have been terrible parents to her and should back off, basically. Edith is independently wealthy, she only stays there for the sake of family. Everything Robert touches is destroyed.
Edith herself wanted to say but was finding it difficult and her parents didn't help her. And her bug sister was a bully throughout her life she didn't receive the push/courage that was needed to tell the truth.
That was very low and petty of Mary. However, this situation did bring up Edith's lack of trust in her fiance. He is right. She should have told him from the bery beginning.
We have to think of things in the context of that time period. It isn’t like today where things like that would be acceptable. It would literally ruin their lives. They wouldn’t be able to marry any decent husbands. More then likely they would die spinsters. Plus it would ruin their families. No one would marry into it and they would probably have all the doors of society shut on them. They had to be absolutely sure that the people that knew their secrets could be trusted for eternity.
@@Glitter_Bear Very true. People have to realize that the definition of what is deeply scandalous was different in those days than it is now. This sort of situation is still serious today, but even more consequential back then, especially to aristocratic families.
@@maryannlockwood7806 November 2019 Gareth Neame confirmed a 2nd sequel is in the works. The challenge is getting everyone together again. I'm hoping this Covid 19 quarantine has allowed extra time to write the script and plan scheduling. 😊
When he says GOOD LUCK TO YOU TOO.. I MEAN THAT... 5:37 and starts to choke on tears.. that is when the tears started for me. He is an amazing actor. He just captures the strength and innocent quality of BERTIE!
I never understood how Matthew saw good in Mary. "My Mary is the true Mary"? But she was selfish, cold, envious and petty since season 1. More than a decade passed from the beginning of the story to this scene, and despite going through so much she still remained the same. Nothing could redeem Mary's character for me. Every other character was way more interesting.
I understand that. I think what makes Downton such a great show is that most characters aren’t black and white in terms of good and evil. Mary has many flaws, but Matthew brought out the best in her. And her friendship with Tom also brought out the best in her. As well as her relationship with Anna and others. I don’t like subscribing to the belief that any of the main cast are “good” or “bad”. Even characters framed as villains from the start, such as Thomas and O’Brien have humanizing moments where you see they are much more than they appear
I don’t think she did. She grew a lot, but the whole show she regularly referenced that she was fundamentally “damaged” in some way. It’s the writers’ fault for not connecting all of that.
The buildup of the season to this moment was very well done, too. You could see Mary gradually losing it, scene by scene. She just kept getting angrier and more distraught until it all boiled over in this scene.
I think Mary wanted to taste the satisfaction of this so much that she lost sight of the damage it would cause. That’s why she couldn’t look Edith in the eye after it happened. She knew she had crossed a major line. She went to apologize to Edith after, but not for hurting her, more to play coy like, “I’m the bigger person. I tried and she just wouldn’t forgive me.”
As much as I didn’t like how Edith called out Mary at this moment when Mary is still hurting (though from her own actions), Edith was right in pointing out Mary’s tone of voice, which really did suggest that she wasn’t happy for Edith at all, and Mary was also silent when Tom asked for her agreement on how they were “happy for them both”. I feel as though the whole dynamic between Edith and Mary is that Edith has always been overlooked and Mary helps with that, so Edith tries to get even through insults, but Mary shoots her down even farther. Here, Edith didn’t have to say this, but Mary had NO right in sabotaging Edith’s future, considering her past of how overlooked she constantly was. She’s the older sister and should have known better. It’s the difference between a snarky comment and a full blown smack down. The smack down is worse than the comment in reaction, no matter what.
Honestly! You'd think the two of them would have grown out of this by now. Especially after Sybil tragically died, I thought slowly but surely they'd make up and atleast tolerate if not care for one another. But noooo (the fault of the writing I guess). What I can't understand though, is how Mary and Edith fans like to blame one or the other sister. This is the fault of BOTH of their hate and jealousy, which has just been festering for years.
Edith is just awkward. She puts her foot in her mouth with the wird “abandon” but she was genuinrly trying to spare Marys feelings. stifling such a happy moment for Marys sake, only for Mary to be nasty in return. Thatd flip a switch in anyone! Its not Ediths failt that Mary is an arrogant self sabotager.
I love how Tom became the pacifist between the two warring sisters after his beloved wife and their sister passed. Always the voice of reason and the one everyone knows is right. Tsk, tsk it took both of the women so long to grow up even though it had been years since Sybil died and they were always the older ones.
Been a long time since I saw the show but I don’t seem to remember how Tom found out about Marigold?? Another thing I still don’t understand how their parents knows that Mary can be so cruel and unkind but they still love her more than Edith
Tom guessed. When he was growing up in Dublin this kind of situation happened more often. And he cared about Edith, so he was able to put things together: Edith was clearly upset about something, then goes away for nearly a year, then comes home and is still upset, then becomes obsessed with the farmer’s little girl….Tom figured it out because he was paying attention (just like everyone knew downstairs). Mary never gave Edith a thought so she was never suspicious until she overheard the dowager and Cora talking-and then she put it all together and Tom unwittingly confirmed it.
Tom is easily one of my favorite characters. His relationship with Mary is the strongest that he has, but he’s loyal to everyone in the family. And Bertie proved to be a wonderful person as well
I like how Edith says she had this comming for something she did 13 years ago and had no lasting consucuenses.. those people are just like Mary havent matured past their petty, vindictive teenager motives
Funny enough, I think Mary saved Edith’s marriage by telling Bertie before they got married. It’s better to not marry than to get divorced and humiliated.
Mary was always cruel and horrible to Edith, even in the first season. I wish Mary had gotten what she deserved, and not wound up happy with a new husband. Edith was miserable and spiteful in the first season but she matured and became a better person, Mary just became more horrible. I hate Mary almost as much as Jeoffry Baratheon from Game of Thrones
@@ladyfoxwf1075 1: I said A L M O S T (learn to read if you're gonna go after someone's IQ) 2: Mary displays classic sociopathic tendancies, and her character is living in a different time period than the medieval like time period that GOT is set in. Seriously look at Mary and look at Cersei and honest say that they don't have similarities
@@3katfox Okay. I'm looking....... they don't have any similarities. Cersei raised a sadistic psychopath and drove her son to suicide. She didn't care about anyone but herself. She claimed she loved her children but it wasn't true love, especially with Tommen. Cersei was incestous... I think that's another one we can cross off the list. I really don't understand how Mary acts like she's living in the Medieval era... I just don't see that. I can read that you said almost, but it's not even close. XD You remind me of Edith alot. Yeah alot.
@@ladyfoxwf1075 Wow! Thank you! I like to think of myself as a strong business woman who's moved on from tragedy and grown as a person 😘 and you sound alot like Mary ♥️ making weak excuses for shitty behavior and acting as if the world should treat shitty people as someone special Good luck (sounds like you're going to need it)
@@3katfox Shitty people DO get treated special in the real world. Wake up sunshine! I hope you enjoy being the woman who gave her child up to a family, then ripped her from their arms; leaving the Mother mentally unstable because of her despair. Oh and also the woman who broke a farmers wife's heart by cheating with her husband. I would be proud too...
Love Mary. I realize where she was bound & what she'd been through..... However, IMO she had no Right. Edith should have told him, yes. Edith!! That was not Mary's place to mention. She wanted Edith to hurt like she did. 🤷🏿♀️
Of course Mary's revenge is so painfully mean and spiteful, but let's face it, personally probably my biggest shock in the whole DA series was Edith writing to the Turkish embassador about the Pamuk thing, sisters might hate each other but not to the extent of ruining each other's and the family's reputation, it would have been fatal to the whole family including Edith, it was a very self-destructive act that showed how little loyalty E actually has to her family despite her privileged position, even if you hate your family, it's not to your advantage to sully its reputation as it shows a lack of dignity. This is why and despite the fact that I enjoyed Edith's character later on in the series, she was never my favourite, she was too weak and whining all the time and always behaved as the victim and let herself be the victim of circumstance and of other people's opinion of her. I by far prefer Mary's character, despite her sometimes annoying and mean side, she somehow has real substance in a way, and a backbone.
Edith would had told him anyway but for Mary to do it that way it clearly shows why Edith never wanted her to know she had a daughter in the end only one of the sisters grew up an it wasn't Mary.
I always feel like after Matthew died the writers really regressed Marys character, she had so much growth over the first few seasons then she went straight back to being spiteful and vindictive after he died, I feel like they didn't know what else to do with her At least I feel like Ediths growth was consistent over the seasons
You are so right. This is not the Mary who tenderly nursed Matthew, who treated Lavinia kindly, ensured Anna got her needed medical treatment, suffered shocking bereavement, accepted Tom as her brother, and more. By her behaviour, it was as if those things never happened.
Mary didn't care for Livinia. She knew she and Matthew loved each other and she was determined to break that up so she could marry him and she hoped that Livonia would leave Matthew the money in order to save Downton.
Mary was always so insecure, she could have had anything she wanted yet she still had to pick on Edith.... Ps. I’m not a Mary hater she’s actually one of my favorites, but she didn’t treat Edith right
To be fair to Mary, Edith should have told him. Obviously it wasn't Mary's right to, and it was horrible how and why she did it, but I mean... Edith should have told him
I think there was a scene earlier in the episode where Edith had a talk with Cora about telling Bertie about Marigold. With that scene in mind, I’m willing to believe that Edith would have eventually told Bertie had Mary been able to keep her mouth shut.
Mary did not do this out of concern for Bertie, she did this as subterfuge because she was upset over Henry. Also she has no idea if Edith was going to tell him soon nor did she care
Mary had no room to throw shade on Edith in the first place. Remember Episode ONE, where she took a man to his death in passion? And then the "week of passion" she had with Lord GORGEOUS? Her reasons for telling Bertie about Marigold was absolute spite and jealousy. She carefully manipulated the entire situation to spill that about Edith, she was hoping to spoil it for her, and she did. By the way she sent Carson out of the room first, told me she was manipulating not only CARSON who thinks she does no wrong, but the others to take away their happiness, most especially Edith's happiness. And after the way she had talked to Talbot the night before is it any wonder he was gone the next morning? Mary lost favor in my eyes with that scene as a character. Edith really did go through the wringer before she found her handsome prince!
Edith was going to cheat her “handsome prince” without telling him about her daughter, Mary had the wrong reasons but Bertie deserved to know and Edith didn’t tell him ….. I have no sympathy for either of them ….
this show is brilliant at displaying actual family relations. No one switches allegiances one episode to the next like a soap opera but rather much like in real life this show demonstrates bonds from the fact that Mary and Edith never liked each other but Tom, while extremely disappointed in Mary still recognizes that Mary is not an evil person.
Omg just dont defend Edith as if she did not do anything wrong - not to say she provoked and insulted Mary first and whats more important, it is still the fact she did not tell Bertie the truth. And the reason Bertie left is not really about “marigold is edith’s daughter” but the fact that Edith didnt tell him the whole story right from the start. Just remember this trust issue is solely caused by Edith herself…
Mary was a straight up c-t here…unforgivable, despite what Edith did about Mr. Pamuk in season one, but she totally redeemed herself two episodes later.
Bertie deserved to know the truth before they married. However, it was Edith's place to tell him. Mary did not speak in the interests of truth and justice but to hurt Edith. At most Mary should only have threatened Edith in private "If you don't tell him, I will."
Its hysterical how every other episode is mary trying to ruin edith's life. And everyone is so nonchalant about it. Whereas everyone just joins in on it. Like they really do the sibling dysfunction so well.
Later we learn that it is Mary who arranges a reconciliation meet up between Bertie and Edith. She went out of her way to hurt Edith but then went out of her way to set it right. None of us are always in the right. Few of us have the courage to correct what we've done wrong.
Of course Mary's actions were below the belt, on the other hand Edith asked for it. She said that Mary couldn't stand things went well for her, but in the first season she did something similar to Mary with mr. Pamuk, and Mary has lost a husband. Knowing Mary, she could have known she was playing with fire.
Ediths fault for throwing stones when she herself had a weak glass house. I would've stayed quiet instead of instigating Mary and saying "things are going better for me than her," and "Mary lost her man". Edith forgot that Mary doesn't hold back her weapons and Mary has the big guns. Edith can't match Mary in fights. lol.
Edith should have known Mary would snap back. “Why wouldn’t this be a good time?” “Because you’ve just been abandoned.” Mary wasn’t abandoned, she dumped Henry, but Edith just assumed that Mary had been dumped... she should have known not to mess with her sister knowing she knew the truth about Marigold. At least Mary prefaced with “I’m sure you told him...” even if she knew fair well that she hadn’t. The one I felt sorry for was Tom. He just wanted them both to be happy. He knows Mary snaps out of anger and hurt. He also knows that Edith has had rotten luck when it comes to relationships. He basically took Sybil’s role trying to be mediator for the sisters. Also, did anyone watch the full season? I’m pretty sure this happened before Bertie’s cousin died so they didn’t know if Edith married him she would outrank them. Also, spoiler alert, but Mary got them back together in the end.
Tom was the son that Lord & Lady Grantham never had. That LG described Lady Edith as someone who even her dolls wouldn't do as she wanted was a profound and sad thing that stayed with me - her pathos was hard to watch at times. I'm pleased she had her fairtytale ending.
"I'm not as simple as I used to be. My life is not as simple" yeah, no. People can say Edith tried to tell Bertie the truth but she really didn't tell him anything. She tip toed and was vague hoping Bertie would be pushy or insistent enough to "force" her to tell him her secret. She must have known Bertie wouldn't really ask follow up questions if she understood how in love he was with her. He probably assumed "whatever she's hiding I'm sure we can overcome it or discuss it when she's ready to talk about it. I won't push the matter." People acting like Edith did nothing wrong when she was the first one to rub salt in Mary's wounds pointing out that Henry abandoned her her. Everyone knew it. It didn't have to be said out loud. Her choice of words were either clumsy or deliberate to hurt Mary. I think Edith was just looking for a fight or a gotcha moment going on the defensive about the fact Mary wasn't ecstatic about her sister's engagement. "I'm getting married and you've lost your man and you can't stand it". Those were fighting words. I still don't like what Mary did. She only told Bertie the truth to humiliate Edith and by extension she made her whole family look like jerks because Bertie would be asking himself how many of them knew this whole time and didn't encourage Edith to tell him the truth. I would be second guessing if I wanted to marry into a family like this too. AND. I also think Edith made all of this happen when she didn't trust Bertie enough to tell him the truth about Marigold. She tells him she loves him but she also couldn't trust him either. She should have had a real talk with Bertie before he got carried away in his love fantasies and proposed to her. Did she think he would taken it any better if he found out after marriage?
I was upset with Mary till I remembered how Edith maliciously wormed the story of Pamuk's death out of Daisy then immediately informed the Turkish Government all about it in writing. Indeed, Edith started it by "ruining Mary's life" first by turning her into "damaged goods" throughout the entire royal and aristocratic world.
That was years ago before this took place, and Mary got her revenge. Edith has grown since then and the conflict was already resolved. Mary was completely in the wrong here. Worst. Sister. Ever.
A) a huge difference between ruining someone’s life by making her loose the man she loved and wanted to share her life with and causing someone else some discomfort for being involved in a short lived scandal . B) that was many years ago and people are supposed to grow and mature. C) Edith was first trying to spare Mary‘s feelings here
I do love Mary and Edith, but dear God, I wanted to slap Mary so hard in this scene!! Her sister has been through so much. Why couldn't she just let her be happy?! Thank god she redeems herself somewhat in the end.
That was despicable beyond belief... I may not be the nicest person in the world, but I would never dream of doing something like that to anyone, let alone my own sister.
I felt very sorry for Edith, and I felt that is why she needed more time. She tried to dissuade Bertie as she knew her sister's temperament, which is what happened. Of course she didn't help the situation herself. However I adored the way Mary played her part. She hid her worst fear, which Edith unaware of was abandonment and putting on a strong face not wanting to appear vulnerable. Edith unwittingly sparked of the other side. Both women played off their characters superbly. I'm Fellows would have been very pleased.
Tom really is a gift Sybil gave to her family. The strength, intelligence & wisdom that Sybil saw in him blossomed with her & helped him to became indispensable to them all. Even the Dowwager came to respect & value him. Tom's acceptance into the family is my favorite aspect of Downtown Abbey!
you are right! i didn’t like him initially, but the way you phrased your reasoning is 100% correct!
TOM BRANSON YOU DA REAL MVP
Tom and Sybil will always be my fav couple!
Beautifully said and completely agree 👍
@@carolinedavis1730 they are my favorite couple too. I love Tom so much.
Mary has always been her worst enemy. This entire episode was all about that. No one was allowed to be happy when Mary was having a hard time, least of all Edith. She didn’t tell on Edith because she thought Bertie deserved the truth. She told him because she couldn’t bear to be outranked by her sister, and because she was upset that Henry left. And worst of all, she KNEW she was wrong. That’s why she sent Carson out of the room, and that’s why she can’t even bring herself to look at Tom.
She wasn’t out-ranked yet…
@Gaby. That’s why she did it. To prevent the marriage and to keep from being outranked.
She was going to be and she could not stand the fact she always has to the focus the center of attention
Mary shouldn't have said it, but don't forget that Edith was sitting there intentionally provoking her. "Oh, her beau is gone and she can't stand when MY life is better than hers.." 🙄
@@FishTanksAreCatTVs What? You must be a real Edith hater to interpret it that way.
What I love about this scene is that Tom has really taken on Sybil's role in the family in a lot of ways. He really loves both Mary and Edith and thinks of them as sisters, he tried to get between them and reconcile the situation, but there's just way too much history and animosity between them now.
Exactly my thoughts. Whoo!
Sybil would be proud
These two girls had had numerous of verbal conflicts since the beginning; fortunately, they made peace in the end.
I never understood why they didn’t get along??
@@elinanderzon2922 Mary and Edith are like Isobel and Violet. Two forces of nature. Anyone who gets between them risks being torn to pieces immediately. At least with Violet and Isobel, the entire village is forewarned so it's easier to avoid collateral damage.
Tom's disappointment is off the scale here.
I always laugh at his eyes 3:09 lol
That's because he never saw just how low Mary would go. To all of us, this isn't disappointing because we know who Mary really is.
As would any mans.
Yep, he lost respect for her.
This bugs me. In the first scene Edith is trying to tell him her life is complicated, she's clearly saying there are things about her life they will need to talk about before getting married. And he doesn't want to listen and decides to take it as a yes. Then, at the end, the reason they can't be together is because she didn't tell him, and he didn't know if she would have. Well, she tried and he ignored her.
Yes! He was way too simple. Of course she didn’t want him to think lesser of her. I wish he would have been more understanding. Edith spent years hiding huge parts of her life. Everyone she loved had to be a secret.
Perfectly said. Bugs the ship out of me, too.
@April April I agree. She should have flat out told him. Period. She said herself, she didn't trust him with the truth. That matters.
@@haute03 She was too afraid of scaring him away.
You have to remember that having a child out of wedlock was a big deal back then.
Agreed!!! Then when they were walking outside before he left why didnt she say....this is what I was illuding to last night. I was trying to tell you there is more for you to know. ????
3:09 Tom has never been so disappointed in Mary. The scene when he calls her a coward is sooooo good.
I know. I HATE Mary. Always have since the first season. I don't think she deserved one good thing or the happy ending she got. I loved when Tom tore her to shreds but I'm disappointed that he didn't pull the 'What would Matthew and Sybil think of you' card. If there was any time to really punish her then that was the moment to use it. I was disappointed that Robert, Rosamund, and Cora didn't get to tear her to shreds because they really were going to. Granny was far to affectionate with Mary when she told her off. She should have been in full matriarchal Lady Grantham mode and put Mary in her proper place. That would have been so satisfying to see.
@@rosiehamlin1413 couldn't agree more, well said!
Rosie Hamlin I love Mary. I honestly dont care what Mary does it’s hard for me to hate her. Edith never helped from the beginning so yeah. Edith was just as a b****
in the beginning
@Wrong Body yes I can justify why I like Mary
@Wrong Body Thank you ☺️
I like how Mary sent Carson away because she knew she was gonna go full bitch and didn't want him to see that
He looks back at the table like, "More coffee? Give me a break. I can take a hint, young lady.".
Which likely wasn't needed because he prob would twist it in his mind so Mary was the victim and did nothing wrong.
@@GoldenRose116 so true. She could do no wrong.
He knew something was about to go down. When it’s conversation en famille and the servants are sent away, shits about to get real.
Yes Carson knew what was happening Mary wraps everyone round her little finger she is so devious making sure she gets her own way.
Wish you showed the part after where Tom absolutely decimated Mary for the stunt she pulled. “You’re a bully, Mary. And like all bullies, you’re a coward”
And edith blowing up on mary
That was wrong by the show. It wasn’t Tom place to scold Mary that hard. It should have been Cora or Robert. Ever since Sybil died, Tom took her place in terms of the relation between Mary and Edith which is to be neutral no matter the vitriol. I understand that he was disappointed in Mary but he went too hard on her.
@@rayleigh8 nah I completely disagree. It wouldn’t have had the same effect coming from Cora or Robert. She respected Tom as her peer and her brother so his opinion had more of an impact on her than a scolding from her parents would have. He told her what she needed to hear, Cora and Robert would have been more gentle on her because she was clearly the favorite daughter.
@rayleigh8 Actually, Mary deserved Tom's lecture! It's not like Tom was lying. Mary has an ugly, nasty side to her. You would think with her breeding, smarts, and sense, she would control, and master it. But, No!
Mary regressed to a 3 year old fighting over a piddling doll just because Edith is playing with it!
Get your dang act together, Mary Crawley!
Let's all be honest, Cora and Robert have enabled this behavior between Mary and Edith. They most often offer slaps on the wrist and disappointed stares than real chastisement. No...Tom was the right person to smack Mary down because only he had the write frame of mind to call a spade a spade and NOT spare her feels like they would have.
I usually really like Mary. But this was just so senseless, so immature, so venomous, so spiteful.
@@danedee6563 Yes, she can be really jealous and entitled, especially when it came to Edith.
All good adjectives.
Can you tell me what you like about Mary? I seriously don't understand how people find her a likeable character. I just don't get it. I feel like we're supposed to be on her side, but she's just so rude all the time.
@@mckenna8663 With pleasure. I guess what I really like about her is that she is a complex, often contradictory character. She values tradition, but is also a visionary; she can be a great romantic while also being cold and emotionless; she is capable of great kindness, but is also vindictive and nasty; at times she shows great intelligence and emotional maturity, but at others she is petty and impulsive, and her behavior borders on being adolescent and childish. That complexity and that contradiction is something she shares with another favorite of mine, Barrow.
Most of all, of all three sisters (all three of which I really love), she is the one I identify with the most, in the sense that she is not really... open, if that makes any sense. I feel like when Mary is overwhelmed by her feelings and emotions, she is more likely to shut herself up in her room than really talk openly about it, unless it was with someone she absolutely trusted, like Anna. That's something I probably would do.
@@mckenna8663 Lady Sybill was the "Glue" that held this Trio of Sisters together. She was a referee between her 2 sisters and the Moral High Ground for each of them to follow. She PALED in comparison to either of them. #ThankGod When she died that bond was Shattered in a million pieces. It became a Winner Take All. Lady Mary being the eldest thrived on the attention from Carson, her Suitors and even her parents. Lady Edith grew up in her sister's unfavorable shadow. Lady Edith said it Best, "We're sisters. One day you and I will be the only ones to remember Granny, Ma, Papa, Carson, Mrs. Hughes and all of the countless people who have peopled our youth."
It amazes me how Edith stopped Bertie from telling them they're getting married to spare Mary's feelings, yet Mary still ruined Edith relationship out of pure, petty spite.
I don’t think Edith was just being caring, her line about her getting Married and Mary’s man leaving seemed more catty than caring
😭😭😭😡
Are we watching the same clip? Edith wasn’t sparing her feelings, she hurled multiple insults before Mary said anything. Mary was being a bitch here, but it’s not like she was unprovoked. Everyone acts like she’s a bitch to Edith and Edith doesn’t act the same way, but that’s never been the truth of their relationship.
Cleptrio at first she tried to spare Mary. Check Mary’s reaction and it pissed off Edith . At the dinner the night before Mary was openly scowling at Edith at the table.
@@lisarandleman6141 True. Edith hates Mary's arrogance. And thats what she was portraying when she asked why wasnt that a good moment. Edith knew Mary knew what she meant but was acting all mighty like always. You cant blame Edith for letting the "abandoned" word slip. She always recieves so much desdain from Mary, and she probably wanted to humble her down.
Love how Tom became somewhat of a brother/friend to Mary and Edith
As well as becoming the son that Lord Grantham never had. 💜
he’s the only one who understood that blood does not make families. Love does.
Kai C and Matthew too
Night...someone like Edith or anyone who is not that strong (character) needs an ally - Mary didn't need help! You see, as an older sister, you take brunt for most misdeeds of the other sibling/s so the eldest has the priviledge of rank (in any household).
@@marinazagrai1623 I don't know which misdeeds are you talking about because as far I know Edith and Sybil never messed up badly like mary in entire series.
Edith even said “it’s not the right moment” because she didn’t want to rub it in Mary’s face after her boyfriend up and left for London without even telling her. She was trying to be a good sister and Mary still acts despicably pushing everyone over the edge. Tom looks so upset too it just kills me
😭😭😭😭
Edith says "this isn't the right moment" then when Mary tries to act fine, Edith says "you've just been abandoned." Then goes straight into the winey "See Mary can't stand it when things are going better for me than for her!" No excuses, Mary's finishing of what Edith started was horrible.
ChildOfDarkDefiance YESSSS Edith annoys me so bad with her “woe is me” whining all the time! When 90% of the situations she ends up in are her own fault. At least Mary can own up to her faults in the end.
ChildOfDarkDefiance so what should she say? Isn’t that why she didn’t want to tell Mary? She knows that Mary may not be happy hearing it after Henry left.
ChildOfDarkDefiance I think both cannot bare any longer, Edith was unhappy after the look that Mary gave when Tom said that “we are happy for you both”, so she thought Mary doesn’t like to be outranked by her as Mary always does. It is reasonable why Mary wasn’t happy. Mary wasn’t happy because she thought that Edith was trying to shame her by straight pointing out what happened between Mary and Henry. They both was very emotional, but it just was justifiable for Mary to ruin what Edith has wished for many years. Edith was never given any attention compare to her two sisters as if she’s nothing.
That was the moment I hated Mary's behavior the most.
yes. and it was the moment when I saw Edith for the moral coward she is.
I loved how Mary got back at Edith for when Edith told the embassy about the Turk that died in her bedroom
@@stevelau5715 excuse me?
How was Edith a "moral coward"?
@@Furienna wondering the same.
Mary is so cruel
I admire the way Edith handled herself in the aftermath. She knew she was in the wrong and that Bertie had every right to feel the way that he did. I'm amazed that she so quickly reconciled herself to him leaving, even though it was hurting her. Oh well, que sera sera and c'est la vie!
Shows a lot of growth. Three seasons ago, she was a wreck after being jilted at the altar, and since then she'd been tested plenty and has gained the confidence to know things a lot more clearly.
Agreed. Such dignity. I love her maturity.
I feel she acted in such a calm way because deep down she feared this would be the outcome even if she had been the one to tell him before Mary did so she had time to prepare for that outcome and guard her heart.
Fancy Brooks '
@Ash Agreed... She'd pretty much felt it was all just too good to be true for someone like her. Which, sadly, meant that all the years of somewhat self-inflicted but also often unfair misfortunes dovetailed with Mary's belittlement had taken some unfortunate, emotional effect. Which in large part is what she was hinting at the night prior, in the upstairs hallway when she told Bertie, "I'm no longer as simple as I used to be, and I just want to be certain I'm being realistic, and not dragging you into a fool's paradise with me."
Just the way Tom says "Mary Don't" sounds exactly the way Sybil would say it if she were there
I wonder what Sybil would’ve thought about Marigold (I think she would live marigold just as much as she would’ve loved George) no matter if she was out of wedlock or not and I do think she would’ve been disappointed in Mary
If you look closely you'll see his mouth doesn't move when he says it. Looks like the actor had to dub it in after.
The difference between Edith and Mary, is that Edith owned that this was her mistake, while Mary tended to blame Edith...
Same as the Turkish guy incident, Mary accepted her role but Edith was a bitch
Did she realized her mistake when she wrote that scandal letter?)) Nope, nobody even blamed her
@@arshiamotazedian9334 That's very true, but 11 years had passed in the timeline. Realistically, that doesn't play well for Mary.
And then Mary got her revenge at the end of the season
@@meh5069 in a way she did, but she was also the one who got them back together.
What kills me is Bertie's face as they talk. You can see that he's still so in love with Edith and doesn't want to walk away. Marvelous acting. Well done'
He looks drunk for no reason it's honestly funny
I agree. He did a great job in acting.
He was stupid to walk away.
Oh Mary, couldn't she for once take the high road and be a big sister.....
Apparently not. LOL
No, if Mary is miserable she makes sure that everybody else are just as miserable. If I remember correctly she also made a heartless comment on how Lord Grantham had once been eager for Barrows' departure from Downton, just as the family had been informed about his attempted suicide.
@@lindaandersen5723 There are different ways of interpreting that. I think, however, that the whole family was extremely grateful to Barrow after he saved Edith and the household from the fire. That, I think, was long before the attempted suicide and long after Lord Grantham had sought Barrow's departure from Downton. You may recall that Barrow was a conniving, evil character in those earliest seasons. Hardly anyone liked him. The only person he actually got along with was Mrs. O'Brien and even she turned against him before her departure from Downton. Mrs. O'Brien, herself, was a piece of work. (But for her, Lord Grantham may have had his male heir.)
@Jayson Davis That's what sisters do. My little sisters are absolute irritants sometimes, but I'll be damned if I embarrass them or hurt them in a public setting. Mary's always treated Edith like crap, even after they lost a sister. I liked Mary but she was a nightmare at times, I loved Edith's growth throughout the series.
@Jayson Davis and Mary paid her in the same coin like 20 seasons ago. Pamuk scandal had nothing to do with this scene. Plus, Mary used her own niece (a baby) to hurt her sister. That was mean
Those two girls, I swear. Between Pamuk, Mathew, Strallan, and Bertie the Crawley girls were vicious to each other. I hoped Sybil's death would have put things into perspective for them, but Mary just couldn't help herself. If she's not happy, no one else can be either. At least Edith extended the olive branch after Sybil passed away.
If you think about it from Mary's side, Edith goaded her into it by saying Mary's 'lost her man and I'm getting married and she can't stand it.' Both of them are still into poking each other with a stick.
@@peg202xo7 Yeah, Edith was far from innocent. At least Mary had one or two redeemable qualities, but I had a really hard time liking Edith. I felt sorry that she was often forgotten about in the family and had bad luck when it came to romance but, other than that, she was kind of exasperating. To her credit though, she did ask Mary if they could get along better in the future and Mary said no. At least Edith was willing to try.
@@loliver9660 Actually I liked Edith better. She always felt insecure. Mary had the opposite problem.
L Oliver I always preferred Mary as well. I think she actually had more redeeming qualities and was more modern thinking. Think about her relationship with Carson and Anna, whereas Edith was almost never shown as caring about the servants. I especially remember Edith’s reaction to Carson spilling wine on her when he was having a heart attack! Mary was also much less shocked by Rose’s brief romance with the black musician. I also don’t think Mary would have kept the Marigold secret had she been in that position. Nor would she have complained about her life the way Edith did in the movie.
All that said, she was particularly vicious in this moment. Though, I do love her throwing back her head at 3:10 after she landed the killing blow. Lol
@@peg202xo7 to be fair that last season was about Mary playing around with 3 suitors. It was fairly ironic that she ended alone and Edith, with an illegitimate child, was about to get married
The part that has always seemed the most heartless to me about this isn't even the effect on Edith so much as that she's deliberately sabotaging a potential future family for Marigold, her two-year-old niece.
There's an interesting symmetry that the first season ended with Edith nuking Mary with a petty scandal and season six featured Mary doing the same -- though the passage of something like 11 years in-universe isn't especially favourable to Mary, who you'd hope would have grown more by this point.
@@danedee6563 And Mary already had her revenge by sabotaging Edith's wedding with the old man. He left her on the altar, all due to Mary's manipulative words.
You have to think like these people to know how bad it is. George is about to acquire a wealthy marquis as an uncle, a man with much more pull than his mother's family. You saw how thrilled Lord Grantham was at the news; it's a boost in prestige for the entire family, not just Edith. And Mary throws all that away for spite.
@@steveparadis2978 Not to mention she revealed her niece's Marigold bastard status without a second thought for her.
confusing for the niece for sure, but she's in a much better situation than most. Anyway, like ppl suggest, mary's biggest enemy is herself, and i'd say that edith had it coming. whats really heartless is tearing a child who has been cared for (marigold) like a toy and ruining that parents mental health, she prances around and has suffered no consequence for that, meanwhile, mary resolved all of these issues quickly.
@@mystique592 i stan her, stay mad
As angry as I was at Mary for causing all this trouble, I was super glad Tom called her out on it afterwards.
Can we take a minute for Edith's GORGEOUS dress in the final scene? Costuming was one of the best parts of this show.
@Barbara Terpstra - Edith's dresses are gorgeous from season 4 on. I loved her style.
@@kellmac loved Edith’s style more than Mary’s. Wished they would have put Mary in more color.
Such a sad breakup. Edith's strength is on display here, and behind that strength is a lifetime of hard lessons learned, and of hopes that died prematurely. She has learned to become cautious when happiness becomes too good to be true. She was holding herself back from fully be loved/ accepted. So glad that it ended well for her eventually.
One thing I loved is how much Tom is one of the family. That knowing look he and Robert shared when Mary asked about Henry. Being disappointed with Mary for ruining things for Edith. And for being angry that Edith’s chances have been ruined.
Yeah it's great for everyone but Tom. He doesn't get to be happy, he just has to stick around being there for his wonderful wife's two feuding sisters. This is why I hate this show, the bad get rewarded and the good get punished or barely more. Robert is actually a villain but never gets treated as one. Mary is vile and practically unredeemable. Sybil, Matthew, Lavinia, William.....all the best are gone. It feels like that's the message. I still love Tom and Edith, the rest can bite me.
@@annabellevy3388 How is Robert a villain though?
@@Furienna I wouldn't call him a villain but he definitely does a lot of bad things that nobody ever really holds him accountable for. He cheats on his wife while she's fighting for her life with Spanish flu, he tries to put all his money in a Ponzi scheme despite more economically informed people telling him that it's a bad idea, he allows his daughter to die in childbirth because he'd rather listen to a fancy doctor than the country doctor.....and on and on
Having a child out of wedlock was one of the most scandalous things a woman could do in the early 20th century. Bertie should have been more understanding of Edith's hesitation to tell him.
I wish Bertie could see that Edith was holding back on him for a reason. She told him several times in so many ways that she had a secret. He should have picked up on that.
I always thought fans who attacked Edith as "bitchy" and "fake", didn't realize how truly brave, honest, humble, kind, loving, mature, self-deprecating, low-key confident she was, ultimately sophisticated, and REAL Edith actually became. Particularly, as compared to Mary, and even to a large degree, Sybil. Cases and points --to name but a few: how Edith quietly and unassumingly cared for and comforted wounded and convalescing soldiers, never even expecting appreciation; how she fought to never give up on her daughter and making her life better; how she taught herself to drive; and to become a successful and strong businesswoman, years before her time, and, how on the night of the awfully tragic death of poor Charles Rogers, when Bertie proposed to Edith, stating, "you know I'm mad about you", Edith replies, incredulously, "I've never thought I was the type of girl that men could be mad about." A phrase you'd never hear Mary say in a million years!
Edith was my favorite. She has shown so much growth and maturity throughout the seasons. Mary got everything because she was the first born and Sybil was the baby and the beautiful one. Edith was the typical middle child. I think she was the best of the bunch even though they all underestimated her.
@@racquelesquire Very well said, Racquel.
Edith has many wonderful qualities, but she wasn't perfect by any means. She was the one who spread the gossip about Mary and Pamuk, she tried to start an affair with Mr Drake and got cranky when his wife told her to leave, she pressured Anthony Strallan into a marriage he clearly didn't want, pulled Marigold from her adoptive families twice (trauma both for the families and the little girl), and has several smaller moments when she was either getting in the way of her own happiness or trying to get in the way of Mary's.
Like this clip.. where she could have just been quiet, but provoked Mary by going on about "oh, Mary can't stand it when my life is better than hers!" and then got upset when Mary fired back. (No, Mary shouldn't have said what she did, but Edith DID provoke her.)
@@FishTanksAreCatTVs At the time of Pamuk's death you gotta figure Edith was less mature and understandably bitter about the way Mary always mistreated her, and so, however petty it was, Edith saw and took her chance to at some payback. However, I do agree with you about Mr. Drake. Both were at fault in that one. As for Strallan. It's wasn't that he "didn't want" to marry Lady Edith. He did. However, he nobly and probably rightly felt that despite their love, and how happy she'd likely make him, he loved her too much to allow his advanced age to hamper her growth and chance at true happiness with a man closer to her own age. So he jilted her out of true love, while her true love was that age didn't matter. As for Marigold and the Drews, Edith should have never had to hide who Marigold was or give her up, to start with. But you know, there's those pesky judgemental snooty dumb English sensibilities and all, getting in the way of BIOLOGICAL REALITIES!
That said, I also somewhat agree that Edith provoked Mary somewhat, here, but come on... this is Mary we're talking, here. So one can't help but get the feeling that once Mary knew the truth about Marigold, then sooner than later, if for no other reason than out slight envy for Edith's good fortune with this newly minted Marquess, Bertie, Mary was going to find some way to try to sabotage Edith, no matter what. Unfortunately, Edith hastined Mary's wrath with her comment about Henry.
Remember how jealous Mary was when the attention was brought to Edith at dinner when she was being recognized for convalescing the soldiers which she kept quiet. Mary only volunteered to help for self interest when she heard Matthew was hurt and brought in. Edith did it out of her own good nature.
Mary is unbelievable : she can be the most helpful, kindest person with Anna and the most bitchy one with Edith.
I find it to be incredibly realistic of certain sibling relationships
Edith has her own share of bitchiness. Spreading the story of Pakmut's death had the sole purpose of ruining Mary's life.
Edith came onto the farmer she was driving the tractor for even though she knew quite well he was married.
Edith had an affair with a man she knew was married and could not get a divorce because his wife was in a mental institution.
Edith bore his child and tried to escape the social consequences by having a long-term tenant foster the child, then destroyed that family and its history with the Crawley's by taking the child back.
Mary may have been mean to Edith, but she was never as self-centered as Edith. Mary was kind not just to Anna, but to William and the other servants.
As you can tell, I'm not a fan of Edith.
God I hate Mary. Always have, since the first season. She is so full of herself. I miss Sybil 😭
Violetta Mary is the Worst.
Worst .. she only became kind-ish when Mathew married her and once he is gone she is back to miserable snobbish evil Mary. She did this to her sister willingly .. she knew what Edith wanted to keep aside as Henry left her but she had to show herself as strong and capable. I hate how childish and selfish she is. She broke her sister's heart on purpose and knowing her sister watched a man leave her on alter, she didn't mind to do that to her now! Evil and just horrible.
@@ABirdOnTheMoon in other words, her character hasn't been written consistently throughout the series, IMHO.
I miss Sybil too
But I’m sure there’s a reason why Mary is the way she is
The look of disappointment on Tom's face is so sad.
Mary's head tilt at 3:07 is ICONIC. I loved watching how heartless she was in this scene, and I loved the fight scene where Edith calls her a bitch even more.
Me too...that head tilt was everything
And looking at Tom like "can you believe this?" like she didn't effin start it 2 seconds ago.... Mary is a B*** and I'm glad Edith still got her happy ending or I would have revolted.
That's a b*tch tilt!
I would never have forgiven Mary for this
Edith wrote to the ambassador about Mr Pamuk and called her sister a "slut" - she pretends to be a sweet rose, while her own thighs are open for every Tom, Harry and Dick!
@@pneron2032 That is not true.
@@pneron2032 Yeah, but she grew up from that. I guess they were even when Mary sent away Strallan with.a lie.
I always thought Mary was a c*nt!
"About Marigold. Who she really is"
"Marigold... is a frog"
Thank you I really needed that laugh
Best one....
And this is the scene where we find out that Edith became a much better and matured woman than Mary. Mary had had so many suitors in the past, but Edith did not spoil it for her. She just patiently waited for a better man, became an editor and evolved into a truly modern woman of her time. People often say that Mary behaved like this because she was just jealous, but I would argue that it was far more than that. Since the beginning of the show, Mary had been in the limelight and Edith was a neglected middle child. But finally when Edith had some spotlight, Mary could not swallow it. Edith summed it up perfectly later on, that "it was the same Mary who wanted her cake and hate me too". Mary is a perfect example of a spoilt child, because of parent's pampering, and Edith is that child who matured from the environment and life lessons, because no one was there for her. Remember that scene when Edith received news of Gregson's death and Mary had a haircut? Instead of comforting her and staying with her, her parents took off to a picnic, without even turning a deaf ear towards her sorrow. Edith made her own mistakes, accepted her past and rose from the ashes. Mary never had that, so she remain far more immature even till the end. I hated Edith in Season 1 (I am not going to lie), but she came so far in Season 6. I know she wrote to Turkish Embasador (which I remember actually hapenned because Mary catapulted her), but it was not as damaging as this scenario. Mary deserved a slap here.
I agree that Mary deserved a slap. But one thing I don't like is how Edith whines that nobody cares about her when we NEVER see her care about anyone either. Mary has deep friendships with Anna and Carson, we see her talk to Sybil about Tom and the baby, there are many scenes where we see Mary really care about people but we never see that coming from Edith. Caring about people and giving them attention aren't one way streets, you have to put something out there too.
@@lisahuber9329 You have a point. But I think that Edith is quite insecure, and she feels that no one needs her. That is why, she keeps to herself. Everyone in the house has a favourite; Mary is Robert's and Carson's favourite, Sybil was Cora's and Mrs Hughes's favourite, but Edith was no one's favourite. Shw was love-hungry, because no one really liked her. She just existed like a shallow of a person. Ofcourse it makes you think that you are unwanted, therefore becoming completely uninterested in everyone else.
Edith cared about the soldiers she helped when they were living at Downton.
@@sammihom15 not to mention she was the one taking care of William. And i am pretty sure that most of the downstairs staff prefer Edith over Mary, especially mrs. Hughes and Daisy.
Not to mention she has shown to care allot more about Mary's feelings then the other way around. Telling her about Matthew disappearing despite her fathers trust in holding it a secret, comforting her when she thought Henry had a car crash, hiding her letters from Michael from Mary to not make her feel sad 6 MONTHS after Matthew died.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I generally disliked Lady Mary from the beginning but after this episode, she was truly despicable.
Same
After this episode? There was only a single episode after this one, in which Mary repairs Edith's relationship with Bertie.
Tom's reaction "what difference does it make" is precisely why i loved the character.
@@mystique592 the end result would be the same. Edith’s “fiancé” would still have been caught off guard with news that he should have been told privately.
If Mary REALLY loved Matthew, she would have honored his memory by continuing to nurture the "softness" he was finding in her, and having some compassion for her sister, talking to her sister in private, instead of being the uppity snob and destroying her sisters hopes and dreams. Mary was dispicable!!
Michelle played the villainous sister perfectly in this scene! So snarky and snide!
What I hate more about Mary right here is that she is using HER OWN NIECE, Marigold, for her own revenge. She is telling everyone that an innocent baby is illegitimate, thus ruining her reputation and future.
As a mother, Mary should know better than that
Nesseire Thank you, this is such an under-appreciated point! Not just as a mother but as a woman whose reputation and future have repeatedly been threatened by her night with Pamuk and then much later after spending a weekend with that other guy whose name escapes me. She‘s a grown woman using a toddler to score points against her sister.
Tom: If your news is good, then I'm happy for you both. Aren't we, Mary?
Mary: *I don't know about that*
I really love how Tom also held respect within the family, especially with the sisters. They treat him like a brother and he acts like one too! Mary deserved Tom's comment of her being a coward, she just needed someone she respected to talk it out of her lmao
Everyone seems to forget that Cora and Robert were already planning on telling Bertie about Marigold themselves, since they thought it was wrong for Edith to marry him without telling the truth.
Yeah but I think they would have brought Edith into it like, "let's do this together"
Cora and Rosamund wanted to tell him. Cora was tempted to tell him herself. I doubt she would have gone through with it.
Robert was like, but he's a marquis he doesn't need to know
Cora and Robert have been terrible parents to her and should back off, basically. Edith is independently wealthy, she only stays there for the sake of family. Everything Robert touches is destroyed.
They were not planning to tell him.
Edith herself wanted to say but was finding it difficult and her parents didn't help her. And her bug sister was a bully throughout her life she didn't receive the push/courage that was needed to tell the truth.
I cannot understand how cruel Mary can be towards her sister. And gets,away with it
Mary and Edith have a history of being towards each other
That was very low and petty of Mary. However, this situation did bring up Edith's lack of trust in her fiance. He is right. She should have told him from the bery beginning.
its more shame, remember Mary also dint tell Matthew about the Parmuk situation until 5+ years had passed, and they did trust each other.
You're so right, she caused herself the pain.
We have to think of things in the context of that time period. It isn’t like today where things like that would be acceptable. It would literally ruin their lives. They wouldn’t be able to marry any decent husbands. More then likely they would die spinsters. Plus it would ruin their families. No one would marry into it and they would probably have all the doors of society shut on them. They had to be absolutely sure that the people that knew their secrets could be trusted for eternity.
@@Glitter_Bear Very true. People have to realize that the definition of what is deeply scandalous was different in those days than it is now. This sort of situation is still serious today, but even more consequential back then, especially to aristocratic families.
Rowana Forrest yes. They would cease to exist as they were. They could even possibly be stripped of their titles or be downgraded.
I loved this scene. It was so well done. I can't wait for the 2nd Downton Abbey movie to come out! ❤
Christy M what have you heard? I’m hoping for another DA movie as well. 🏫
@@maryannlockwood7806 November 2019 Gareth Neame confirmed a 2nd sequel is in the works. The challenge is getting everyone together again. I'm hoping this Covid 19 quarantine has allowed extra time to write the script and plan scheduling. 😊
Christy M Thank you so much for letting me know that! It will be something to look forward to when all this mess is over.
@Amber me too! Nothing like Downton Abbey! 😍 even my husband is hooked
Omg please post the clip when they meet for dinner and get back together
When he says GOOD LUCK TO YOU TOO.. I MEAN THAT... 5:37 and starts to choke on tears.. that is when the tears started for me. He is an amazing actor. He just captures the strength and innocent quality of BERTIE!
I never understood how Matthew saw good in Mary. "My Mary is the true Mary"? But she was selfish, cold, envious and petty since season 1. More than a decade passed from the beginning of the story to this scene, and despite going through so much she still remained the same. Nothing could redeem Mary's character for me. Every other character was way more interesting.
I understand that. I think what makes Downton such a great show is that most characters aren’t black and white in terms of good and evil. Mary has many flaws, but Matthew brought out the best in her. And her friendship with Tom also brought out the best in her. As well as her relationship with Anna and others. I don’t like subscribing to the belief that any of the main cast are “good” or “bad”. Even characters framed as villains from the start, such as Thomas and O’Brien have humanizing moments where you see they are much more than they appear
I don’t think she did. She grew a lot, but the whole show she regularly referenced that she was fundamentally “damaged” in some way. It’s the writers’ fault for not connecting all of that.
The buildup of the season to this moment was very well done, too. You could see Mary gradually losing it, scene by scene. She just kept getting angrier and more distraught until it all boiled over in this scene.
This was low, even for Mary.
I think Mary wanted to taste the satisfaction of this so much that she lost sight of the damage it would cause. That’s why she couldn’t look Edith in the eye after it happened. She knew she had crossed a major line. She went to apologize to Edith after, but not for hurting her, more to play coy like, “I’m the bigger person. I tried and she just wouldn’t forgive me.”
As much as I didn’t like how Edith called out Mary at this moment when Mary is still hurting (though from her own actions), Edith was right in pointing out Mary’s tone of voice, which really did suggest that she wasn’t happy for Edith at all, and Mary was also silent when Tom asked for her agreement on how they were “happy for them both”. I feel as though the whole dynamic between Edith and Mary is that Edith has always been overlooked and Mary helps with that, so Edith tries to get even through insults, but Mary shoots her down even farther. Here, Edith didn’t have to say this, but Mary had NO right in sabotaging Edith’s future, considering her past of how overlooked she constantly was. She’s the older sister and should have known better. It’s the difference between a snarky comment and a full blown smack down. The smack down is worse than the comment in reaction, no matter what.
Honestly! You'd think the two of them would have grown out of this by now. Especially after Sybil tragically died, I thought slowly but surely they'd make up and atleast tolerate if not care for one another. But noooo (the fault of the writing I guess).
What I can't understand though, is how Mary and Edith fans like to blame one or the other sister. This is the fault of BOTH of their hate and jealousy, which has just been festering for years.
Edith is just awkward. She puts her foot in her mouth with the wird “abandon” but she was genuinrly trying to spare Marys feelings. stifling such a happy moment for Marys sake, only for Mary to be nasty in return. Thatd flip a switch in anyone! Its not Ediths failt that Mary is an arrogant self sabotager.
But Edith was most definitely going to con a man into marriage ( she even admits it) which is why I have no sympathy for Edith either …..
I love how Tom became the pacifist between the two warring sisters after his beloved wife and their sister passed. Always the voice of reason and the one everyone knows is right. Tsk, tsk it took both of the women so long to grow up even though it had been years since Sybil died and they were always the older ones.
Been a long time since I saw the show but I don’t seem to remember how Tom found out about Marigold?? Another thing I still don’t understand how their parents knows that Mary can be so cruel and unkind but they still love her more than Edith
Tom guessed. When he was growing up in Dublin this kind of situation happened more often. And he cared about Edith, so he was able to put things together: Edith was clearly upset about something, then goes away for nearly a year, then comes home and is still upset, then becomes obsessed with the farmer’s little girl….Tom figured it out because he was paying attention (just like everyone knew downstairs). Mary never gave Edith a thought so she was never suspicious until she overheard the dowager and Cora talking-and then she put it all together and Tom unwittingly confirmed it.
Tom is easily one of my favorite characters. His relationship with Mary is the strongest that he has, but he’s loyal to everyone in the family. And Bertie proved to be a wonderful person as well
I like how Edith says she had this comming for something she did 13 years ago and had no lasting consucuenses.. those people are just like Mary havent matured past their petty, vindictive teenager motives
Funny enough, I think Mary saved Edith’s marriage by telling Bertie before they got married. It’s better to not marry than to get divorced and humiliated.
Mary was always cruel and horrible to Edith, even in the first season.
I wish Mary had gotten what she deserved, and not wound up happy with a new husband.
Edith was miserable and spiteful in the first season but she matured and became a better person, Mary just became more horrible.
I hate Mary almost as much as Jeoffry Baratheon from Game of Thrones
Kat Fox Sorry, you hate her as much as a sadistic murdering rapist? Wow. You’re level 100 smart.
@@ladyfoxwf1075
1: I said A L M O S T (learn to read if you're gonna go after someone's IQ)
2: Mary displays classic sociopathic tendancies, and her character is living in a different time period than the medieval like time period that GOT is set in.
Seriously look at Mary and look at Cersei and honest say that they don't have similarities
@@3katfox Okay. I'm looking....... they don't have any similarities. Cersei raised a sadistic psychopath and drove her son to suicide. She didn't care about anyone but herself. She claimed she loved her children but it wasn't true love, especially with Tommen. Cersei was incestous... I think that's another one we can cross off the list. I really don't understand how Mary acts like she's living in the Medieval era... I just don't see that. I can read that you said almost, but it's not even close. XD
You remind me of Edith alot. Yeah alot.
@@ladyfoxwf1075
Wow! Thank you! I like to think of myself as a strong business woman who's moved on from tragedy and grown as a person 😘 and you sound alot like Mary ♥️ making weak excuses for shitty behavior and acting as if the world should treat shitty people as someone special
Good luck (sounds like you're going to need it)
@@3katfox Shitty people DO get treated special in the real world. Wake up sunshine!
I hope you enjoy being the woman who gave her child up to a family, then ripped her from their arms; leaving the Mother mentally unstable because of her despair. Oh and also the woman who broke a farmers wife's heart by cheating with her husband. I would be proud too...
It wasnt mary's place to tell about the child, it was a heartless act on mary part
The way Mary looked at Edith at 3:08 like CHECKMATE, SIS! I cannot with her! 😆
Love Mary. I realize where she was bound & what she'd been through..... However, IMO she had no Right. Edith should have told him, yes. Edith!! That was not Mary's place to mention. She wanted Edith to hurt like she did. 🤷🏿♀️
Edith tried and he told her he did not need to hear about her past and stopped her. The same episode the night before in the hallway
I have allways disliked Mary!!! Fact that she ended up this season married while she could not let her sister be happy pissed me off more than ever!!!
1:56 This was the moment where I went 'Oh noooooo'
I really like how Tom get in Mary's face after that in his office
What a terrific scene and writing. MY FAVORITE SHOW EVER
I was just so pleased that they sorted things out and got married in the end 😁👰😁
Mary didn’t deserve Mathew !
Of course Mary's revenge is so painfully mean and spiteful, but let's face it, personally probably my biggest shock in the whole DA series was Edith writing to the Turkish embassador about the Pamuk thing, sisters might hate each other but not to the extent of ruining each other's and the family's reputation, it would have been fatal to the whole family including Edith, it was a very self-destructive act that showed how little loyalty E actually has to her family despite her privileged position, even if you hate your family, it's not to your advantage to sully its reputation as it shows a lack of dignity. This is why and despite the fact that I enjoyed Edith's character later on in the series, she was never my favourite, she was too weak and whining all the time and always behaved as the victim and let herself be the victim of circumstance and of other people's opinion of her. I by far prefer Mary's character, despite her sometimes annoying and mean side, she somehow has real substance in a way, and a backbone.
After everything Mary has done to Edith
Edith would had told him anyway but for Mary to do it that way it clearly shows why Edith never wanted her to know she had a daughter in the end only one of the sisters grew up an it wasn't Mary.
I always feel like after Matthew died the writers really regressed Marys character, she had so much growth over the first few seasons then she went straight back to being spiteful and vindictive after he died, I feel like they didn't know what else to do with her
At least I feel like Ediths growth was consistent over the seasons
You are so right. This is not the Mary who tenderly nursed Matthew, who treated Lavinia kindly, ensured Anna got her needed medical treatment, suffered shocking bereavement, accepted Tom as her brother, and more. By her behaviour, it was as if those things never happened.
Mary didn't care for Livinia. She knew she and Matthew loved each other and she was determined to break that up so she could marry him and she hoped that Livonia would leave Matthew the money in order to save Downton.
Mary was always so insecure, she could have had anything she wanted yet she still had to pick on Edith....
Ps. I’m not a Mary hater she’s actually one of my favorites, but she didn’t treat Edith right
To be fair to Mary, Edith should have told him. Obviously it wasn't Mary's right to, and it was horrible how and why she did it, but I mean...
Edith should have told him
I agree. Better to hear it from her than from anyone else.
Yes, Edith should have. But that did not justify Mary's sabotage. That was a very, very low thing for her to do to her sister.
I think there was a scene earlier in the episode where Edith had a talk with Cora about telling Bertie about Marigold. With that scene in mind, I’m willing to believe that Edith would have eventually told Bertie had Mary been able to keep her mouth shut.
Come on Mary always acts likes she's superior to others and totally ignores her on faults and mistakes.. it was set in episode one.
Mary did not do this out of concern for Bertie, she did this as subterfuge because she was upset over Henry. Also she has no idea if Edith was going to tell him soon nor did she care
Mary had no room to throw shade on Edith in the first place. Remember Episode ONE, where she took a man to his death in passion? And then the "week of passion" she had with Lord GORGEOUS?
Her reasons for telling Bertie about Marigold was absolute spite and jealousy. She carefully manipulated the entire situation to spill that about Edith, she was hoping to spoil it for her, and she did. By the way she sent Carson out of the room first, told me she was manipulating not only CARSON who thinks she does no wrong, but the others to take away their happiness, most especially Edith's happiness.
And after the way she had talked to Talbot the night before is it any wonder he was gone the next morning?
Mary lost favor in my eyes with that scene as a character. Edith really did go through the wringer before she found her handsome prince!
Edith was going to cheat her “handsome prince” without telling him about her daughter, Mary had the wrong reasons but Bertie deserved to know and Edith didn’t tell him ….. I have no sympathy for either of them ….
this show is brilliant at displaying actual family relations. No one switches allegiances one episode to the next like a soap opera but rather much like in real life this show demonstrates bonds from the fact that Mary and Edith never liked each other but Tom, while extremely disappointed in Mary still recognizes that Mary is not an evil person.
Completely agree!
Omg just dont defend Edith as if she did not do anything wrong - not to say she provoked and insulted Mary first and whats more important, it is still the fact she did not tell Bertie the truth. And the reason Bertie left is not really about “marigold is edith’s daughter” but the fact that Edith didnt tell him the whole story right from the start. Just remember this trust issue is solely caused by Edith herself…
Mary was a straight up c-t here…unforgivable, despite what Edith did about Mr. Pamuk in season one, but she totally redeemed herself two episodes later.
Bertie deserved to know the truth before they married. However, it was Edith's place to tell him. Mary did not speak in the interests of truth and justice but to hurt Edith. At most Mary should only have threatened Edith in private "If you don't tell him, I will."
1920s Robert, “I have a mass of letters to write.” 2020s Robert, “I have a mass of emails to send.”
Its hysterical how every other episode is mary trying to ruin edith's life. And everyone is so nonchalant about it. Whereas everyone just joins in on it. Like they really do the sibling dysfunction so well.
Toms look of absolute disgust after Mary did this is a master class in facial expression acting.
Later we learn that it is Mary who arranges a reconciliation meet up between Bertie and Edith. She went out of her way to hurt Edith but then went out of her way to set it right. None of us are always in the right. Few of us have the courage to correct what we've done wrong.
Valkyrie Sardo So trye
She apologized for what she did to Edith and Bertie not for what she put Edith through her childhood and until that moment
It was only to redeem herself and get back into everybody's good graces.
That scene where they part is so heartbreaking. Poor Edith....but it worked out in the end.
Of course Mary's actions were below the belt, on the other hand Edith asked for it. She said that Mary couldn't stand things went well for her, but in the first season she did something similar to Mary with mr. Pamuk, and Mary has lost a husband. Knowing Mary, she could have known she was playing with fire.
3:10-3:12 Toms silently thinking "Oh Mary what have you done?'
Ediths fault for throwing stones when she herself had a weak glass house. I would've stayed quiet instead of instigating Mary and saying "things are going better for me than her," and "Mary lost her man". Edith forgot that Mary doesn't hold back her weapons and Mary has the big guns. Edith can't match Mary in fights. lol.
Exactly! Edith is always pushing Mary despite knowing that Mary pushes so much harder.
Edith should have known Mary would snap back. “Why wouldn’t this be a good time?” “Because you’ve just been abandoned.” Mary wasn’t abandoned, she dumped Henry, but Edith just assumed that Mary had been dumped... she should have known not to mess with her sister knowing she knew the truth about Marigold. At least Mary prefaced with “I’m sure you told him...” even if she knew fair well that she hadn’t.
The one I felt sorry for was Tom. He just wanted them both to be happy. He knows Mary snaps out of anger and hurt. He also knows that Edith has had rotten luck when it comes to relationships. He basically took Sybil’s role trying to be mediator for the sisters.
Also, did anyone watch the full season? I’m pretty sure this happened before Bertie’s cousin died so they didn’t know if Edith married him she would outrank them. Also, spoiler alert, but Mary got them back together in the end.
Tom’s “Mary don’t!” is just so perfect.
Tom was the son that Lord & Lady Grantham never had. That LG described Lady Edith as someone who even her dolls wouldn't do as she wanted was a profound and sad thing that stayed with me - her pathos was hard to watch at times. I'm pleased she had her fairtytale ending.
"I'm not as simple as I used to be. My life is not as simple" yeah, no. People can say Edith tried to tell Bertie the truth but she really didn't tell him anything. She tip toed and was vague hoping Bertie would be pushy or insistent enough to "force" her to tell him her secret. She must have known Bertie wouldn't really ask follow up questions if she understood how in love he was with her. He probably assumed "whatever she's hiding I'm sure we can overcome it or discuss it when she's ready to talk about it. I won't push the matter."
People acting like Edith did nothing wrong when she was the first one to rub salt in Mary's wounds pointing out that Henry abandoned her her. Everyone knew it. It didn't have to be said out loud. Her choice of words were either clumsy or deliberate to hurt Mary. I think Edith was just looking for a fight or a gotcha moment going on the defensive about the fact Mary wasn't ecstatic about her sister's engagement. "I'm getting married and you've lost your man and you can't stand it". Those were fighting words.
I still don't like what Mary did. She only told Bertie the truth to humiliate Edith and by extension she made her whole family look like jerks because Bertie would be asking himself how many of them knew this whole time and didn't encourage Edith to tell him the truth. I would be second guessing if I wanted to marry into a family like this too. AND. I also think Edith made all of this happen when she didn't trust Bertie enough to tell him the truth about Marigold. She tells him she loves him but she also couldn't trust him either. She should have had a real talk with Bertie before he got carried away in his love fantasies and proposed to her. Did she think he would taken it any better if he found out after marriage?
The way Mary sat back after Edith admitted the truth was actually kind of funny. Lol
nope
Toms facial expressions are everything in this
Mary served Edith in this. I loved every minute of it, bc Edith kept coming for Mary. Edith Knocked and Mary answered
I was upset with Mary till I remembered how Edith maliciously wormed the story of Pamuk's death out of Daisy then immediately informed the Turkish Government all about it in writing. Indeed, Edith started it by "ruining Mary's life" first by turning her into "damaged goods" throughout the entire royal and aristocratic world.
That was years ago before this took place, and Mary got her revenge. Edith has grown since then and the conflict was already resolved. Mary was completely in the wrong here. Worst. Sister. Ever.
A) a huge difference between ruining someone’s life by making her loose the man she loved and wanted to share her life with and causing someone else some discomfort for being involved in a short lived scandal .
B) that was many years ago and people are supposed to grow and mature.
C) Edith was first trying to spare Mary‘s feelings here
I do love Mary and Edith, but dear God, I wanted to slap Mary so hard in this scene!! Her sister has been through so much. Why couldn't she just let her be happy?! Thank god she redeems herself somewhat in the end.
Mary was always so petty . She was a very insecure lady . She needs to grow up & be a better sister to Edith
there was nothing more satisfying then when Tom yelled at Mary after
The look on Tom's face is priceless!
That was despicable beyond belief...
I may not be the nicest person in the world, but I would never dream of doing something like that to anyone, let alone my own sister.
I would be more ashamed of having Mary for a sister than having Marigold for a child.
Shame on you Mary, and Edith you shouldn't be ashamed of your daughter, no matter how she was concieved.
Well she would’ve been ruined
I felt very sorry for Edith, and I felt that is why she needed more time. She tried to dissuade Bertie as she knew her sister's temperament, which is what happened. Of course she didn't help the situation herself. However I adored the way Mary played her part. She hid her worst fear, which Edith unaware of was abandonment and putting on a strong face not wanting to appear vulnerable. Edith unwittingly sparked of the other side. Both women played off their characters superbly. I'm Fellows would have been very pleased.