How Dead Cells Cheated to Make the Game More Fun | War Stories | Ars Technica
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- Sébastien Bénard, lead designer at Motion Twin, goes behind the scenes of Dead Cells' development. Sébastien explains the challenges they came across and how they made the game feel so good to play.
Gameplay footage from:
MrHiddin1 : / mrhiddin1
Games Done Quick : / gamesdonequick
kenshiroux : / kenshiroux
starblizzardstar : / starblizzardstar
Busterflex 80 : / busterflex
Spychopat : / chinois11
DocFirebird : / @docfirebird
SplatterCatGaming : / splattercatgaming
nbk323 : / @nbk3235
Connect with Ars Technica:
Visit ArsTechnica.com: arstechnica.com
Follow Ars Technica on Facebook: / arstechnica
Follow Ars Technica on Google+: plus.google.co...
Follow Ars Technica on Twitter: / arstechnica
How Dead Cells Cheated to Make the Game More Fun | War Stories | Ars Technica
Hi there. Welcome to the latest episode of War Stories. We really appreciate all the feedback we see in the comments, here as well as on arstechnica.com. Please let us know if you have any questions or requests for upcoming episodes.
Get Edmund McMillen on!
@@LazarheaD Thanks. He's definitely on our list!
04:50... and after they get your money they don't fix things for months. how scam business works... and if you suppress this message you support scam business.
Hollow Knight
@1:02 "every buzz world and [mumbles] game" Hi ars technica, [mumbles] is just plain poor transcription. From context alone it should be "every buzz word and Zynga game." (though world is a typo- and it would help to clarify it with Motion Twin)
It made me really happy to see how much care was taken to make this game enjoyable for the players. I really liked how he mentioned they wanted to "take care" of the player by eliminating anything that would get in the way of us experiencing the gameplay. Subconsciously I knew there was something special about this game but it's nice to hear it wasn't just luck but pure intentional design.
I really enjoyed the level generation segment at 5:02, it was satisfying to see how the different rooms lay out.
Big ups for accurate subtitles!
6:51 was really uncomfortable for earphone users, watch those audio levels!
The audio levels were the same, it's just that the guy yelling "NO" was peaking. So no matter how low the audio levels are decreased, the recording itself is still peaking, which is just uncomfortable.
5:01 is one of the most amazing things i have ever seen.
Props to whoever made that sequence. That right there is hardwork and dedication to quality
Thanks!
close captions are 100% solid and help everything
That French accent is really strong. I got 95% of what he was saying. You might want to provide subtitles or a transcript. With that said, a developer more concerned that the player is having fun than making pixel perfect jumps is refreshing. Your biggest obstacle to enjoyment shouldn't be the controls.
Hi there. So just FYI UA-cam controls the subtitling for videos we publish here. If you click on settings>Subtitles>French, then go back a step and click "auto translate" it will give you a list of language options. From what we can see, UA-cam picked up on the accent and assumed it was in French.
@@arstechnica well, sure,but you can bake subtitles into the video if you chose to. Personally I didnt need them tho, i missed one or two lines throughout -- nbd.
The captions are in English. Just click the button.
The thing about not having to be pixel perfect on jumps is something that's been around since the days of the NES decades ago. It's a staple of the gaming industry and it's not something new. It's called the "ghost jump" and its when designers allow you to jump even when you've overshot a ledge while running. This is literally core game design for MOST games. The few that stray from this design often feel quite frustrating. Dead Cells deserves alot of credit as the amazing game it is, but not for this. This kind of stuff is honestly expected and here's a video breaking down alot of little things like that: ua-cam.com/video/yuRRPT-Isp4/v-deo.html . For gamers this sounds new and cool and innovative. For game designers this is game design 101.
@@Ralathar44 That was a neat video, thanks :)
Including the speed running community in the game was a good move.
They didn't just include the community, they made speedrunning a core game mechanic
Glad to see a french team on your channel ! Dead Ceels is really an impressive game and I like it so much ! Thank you for this interview !
Played the game in early access and loved it. Just came back to it now and I'm amazed by how far they have come. I was surprised to see the price increase at first but they have totally justified the new price and the game is a true gem now!!
This is one of the most useful episodes. At least two pieces of wise advice.
1) Should you design and debug a random level generator for a month, or just design high quality levels by hand for a month?
2) You should consider what parts of the experience are the core challenge of the game and make sure that non-essential ones don't frustrate the player even if you need some minor cheating.
This grace period jumping off a platform is pretty common these days; it's called Coyote Time :) I love this video
I remember when I first got the game and saw the obligatory early access message, I loved how they had the little animation of the prisoner running. It was just really charming and unique, as every other early access game I'd played before just had a regular splash screen saying it might be broken and wonky.
That thing about the controls right at the end is so true, I remember the first time I picked up omori as soon as I moved the left stick, I said oh wow this movement’s really smooth to my friend and passed the controller to them so they feel that smooth movement. In that moment omori was set up to be a high quality game in my head
I love the ongoing care Motion Twin has put into this game and I'm excited to see what they do next
Damn, i had a feeling the platforming felt easy but good to know the devs did this on purpose! It makes sense, that you would want to put most of your energy and thoughts into the combat.
Fantastic game, btw
I like how they talked about the jump function.. I remember hearing about this on another video from a dev and how they made little tweaks to make jumping and moving about easier and less frustrating.. makes for better game play and wanting to keep playing..
Humble and open to feedback, love to hear it.
I played Dead Cells on mobile, i couldn't stop playing it because it was fun and addictive... I progress everything that i went through and i love the progression in this game
Lots of games should learn from Dead Cells how to make a good and confortable control.
I started playing on motion twin games like 10 years ago. All of them were great games, even simple games on navigator. I love their ideas and their humour.
Deadcells is an exceptional game!
The thing that makes this game so damn good is the game is beautiful to look at it has a wonderful color palate and it has this really pulpy and fun combat the weapons hit hart and sound great.
Chapeau to the Dead Cell team for developing one of the most natural feeling gameplay experience ever.
I love how it’s written « papa d’amour » on his t-shirt, which means dear father. He seems like a genuinely nice person/father.
I've heard & read numerous comparisons of Dead Cells to games like Dark Souls and Bloodborne (naturally.) Truth be told, for sheer replayability, Dead Cells may be the closest thing to absolute perfection that I've ever come across. The Developers had a very concise goal, and it can be fealt throughout each and every accomplishment and milestone; as well as every painful (gory) death. As my backlog of games gets larger, I keep heading back to the island in search of greater weapons, wealth, answers, and another good reason to die . . .
I have fallen in love with this game. By far one of the best games I've ever had the pleasure of owning. My little brother loved it so much he bought it for his phone. If no one else has said it, I'm proud to own this game, and I'm proud of y'all for making it.
Bro this isn't cheating, these are artists that understand their audience. Game devs should take note.
Playing this on the switch, controls feel smooth asf, dunno how to describe the game, it's just a great game that everyone should try. Since then I'm searching for an alternative that I could play in coop, maybe one day ...
Samus Aran Looks as if it’s a cross between old school Castlevania and Prince of Persia.. I’ll have to pick it up at some point
Where can I find more concept arts and early drafts for this game? They look awesome!
Also, at 9:08 you used footage from Doc Firebird’s Hunter’s Grenade glitch video. Thanks for recognizing one of the best Dead Cells youtubers.
I picked this up by chance and have been addicted ever since, great game.
so refreshing to hear this!
really like the attitude and vision of this dev!
way too many indie devs these days are obsessed with perma death and making games really hard, to make it feel like a big achievement if you DONT fail.
Permadeath, random generation and artificial difficulty is basically a "get rich fast" formula for lazy and incompetent indie devs to produce games without much of content. These games are just casino slot machines in disguise. It appears that you are playing a game where skill and experience matter, and they do to some degree, but you actually win when you hit an RNG jackpot. And you continue playing not because of content (these games typically don't have much), but because of your gambling addiction.
@@noop9k yeah... doing a perma death mode is cool, but any game can do that, its not like its hard to do. whenever devs try to force players to play a certain way it usually really psses me off.
@@booterbrod4067 Well, some games can be designed around this, and actually be good, but many just use it as a way to make the player play through 1 hour worth of content for 50 hours.
@@noop9k is there any game though where removing perma death would destroy the game ? i cant think of one... having perma death, like i said, is a cool option... but why would it be the only option to play a game ? it should be up to players to choose how they enjoy the game. its just like artificially locking a game to 60fps or not allowing users to disable motion blur... just because the dev wants it this way...
Booter Brod Well, Tetris worked well without lives and ability to continue ;) Roguelike and roguelite games are certainly designed and balanced for multiple playthroughs. I’m not against the idea. I just don’t like how this formula is overused because of its “cost efficiency” and the players are getting used to games that are basically gambling in disguise.
Though I cheated in classic roguelikes sometimes by backing up my saves :)
7:38 This isn't uncommon. It's called Coyote Time, named after the Looney Tunes character Wile E. Coyote because of the ways he frequently defied gravity (often after running off a cliff).
ua-cam.com/video/wRSHzenjiNA/v-deo.html
Yeah I don't get why the dev of this amazing game should talk about a well-known, default solution. I mean, they're is probably more interesting stories for him to tell
Exactly. I put off watching this for months until I played the game, and I'm kinda disappointed. The level generation thing was interesting, but talking about a default solution in most games was kinda meh.
I think there are alot of dev tricks that we take for granted, but that the laymen gamer might not really know, so I'm honestly ok since it segways into the other cheats they did
His sentiment about the speedrunning community is wise. If a small group of players are exploiting some glitches that doesn't hurt the core experience, it's not a prominent concern. Everyone enjoys games in their own way. Let them if it's not harming others' enjoyment.
I just bought this game a few days ago and I've already sunk multiple hours into it. This idea of how good controls are the fundamental aspect to any good game takes me back to Super Castlevania - When they let you attack with your whip in all 8 directions, it was groundbreaking at the time. Another good example of well crafted the controls are in Doom 2016.
Just discovered this series, fantastic.
Deadcells and Super meat boy are among my favourite games of the last decade
I love their work.
Such a good game with such a big care for the players that is palpable.
I'll probably buy everything they will made in future.
I'm glad I picked up a physical Switch copy. I still haven't made much progress, but when I get focused, I enjoy the game a lot! (Until I screw up and die, of course.)
This is the best game I have ever played in my 26 years of playing video games
That game is as fun as it is addictive... and apparently by design. I love it just like this vid :D
i was supposed to finally get back to work this week. 5 days later, i have 40+ hours in Dead Cells. it sure is addictive :/
I got the game in early access a couple years ago, it was and remains to be a treat.
The main character is so damn groovy, and the means they added to make it seem like you land on platforms more securely is so subtle but it gives the character so much more depth, he feels actually reliable.
He is charming and reminds me of a mix between Vectorman and Rayman, although the developer had never played Vectorman- I had asked in an AMA.
Dead Cells controls, mechanically, feel like one of the most fun games ever built; they did such a great job tuning the controls of the player character and it pays off so much.
"[...] but still we have a problem here we should address because yeah, this guy just want the game to be good. He don't want to bash the game or whatever. He just want to play the games that he will like. Those people they want you to make a good game. They have all the interest into making this game as good as possible. Just like us."
It is the most amazing thing that there are multi-billion dollar companies that don't understand the lesson that a few simple guys and their indie game have already mastered. It would have been so easy for these guys to look at the criticism leveled directly at them and call their players toxic. They didn't, and how amazing it is to hear these words.
I wish them all the best.
Imagine playing on a Dead Cells Arcade box as a kid
Exactly that jump issue just annoyed the hell out of me in Blasphemous, especially in the parts where you have to jump to a ladder. Even though it's technically objective and fair, it still feels like fighting against the physical controls rather than playing the game itself.
This game is so addictive. Amazing job Motion Twin
I have always enjoyed how forgiving the platforming in Dead Cells is. It allows your eyes to focus on the next moves, very fun.
it also allows players to heavily experiement with their playstyle and weapon combos as they go along in each run as well as trying different and more difficult biomes for better loot and such!
He talks with such confidence about everything.
Inspiring.
A great game, always challenging and frustrating at the same time.
You guys should interview the Darkest Dungeon team! If you haven't already.
kevin r Is Darkest Dungeon any good? I haven’t looked into it, but I love Dead Cells.
Darkest dungeon is great! Completely different game style though.
@@andrewmildenberg4210 very very tactical turn based game with heavy reliance and consequence on player choices
What kind of setup was that for Knife Dance that allowed them to spam it without it being on cooldown?
Hunter's Instinct used to give a flat CD reduction to skills instead of on kills, the footage might be taken before that was changed in Dec 2018, otherwise it might just be a dev test run with no CD.
Most time played on my PS4 and 2nd most time played on Steam behind Tallowmere. I kept playing on Steam cuz of all the great weapon and enemy updates. I do miss the OP exploding crossbow but the legacy update fixes that.
ExtraCredits called this solution Coyote Time. It's a good idea to smooth down some corners and not be pedantic for the overall enjoyment.
It's completely unsurprising that Extra Credits didn't even do the most basic research to find the industry term.
1:04 - He clearly says ‘Every buzzword in a SINGLE Game’... He does not ‘mumble’ at all (like the captions read)
Minus 2 points for whoever did the captions, but a great, insightful vid in a great series
The mechanic of being able to jump a couple frames after the ledge is called "coyote jumping" like how Wile E. Coyote floats in the air for a second before he falls off of the cliff.
It's called Ghost Jumping and has been called that for two decades. "Coyote Jumping" comes from an Extra Credits video and they made it up as far as I can tell. Google the two terms and it's clear which one is the industry term for this mechanic.
That is a great video and it couldn't have been more on time as I've just started playing Dead Cells. The game is as great as everyone in the comment says it is, so if you haven't tried it, you really should buy it. The enemies are juicy, the hitboxes are generous, and the game is fun.
However, there is a small problem which I believe is something you don't want in your game - the fact that going past enemies slows down the character and makes its movement weird for a brief moment. This breaks the momentum and is often frustrating. Would love if you could fix this.
My pet peeve is that critting enemies slows down the gameplay and makes your timing all off, hate that. It should be possible to shut that off. I think it was more in earlier versions but its still not gone.
Pretty sure you can dodge-roll straight through the enemies without being slowed down, no?
What an amazing video I just watched. Dead cells is a masterpiece.
I love this game ! Even more now thank you motion twin.
Reminds me of "Is the Man Who Is Tall Happy?" (2013), except that one had subtitles, so people could actually understand what was said.
So the lesson here is that the more control the player has the better the game feels overall independent of many other extraneous factors? Cool!
5:00 so basically the DnD board game logic. neat
The first time I beat DC I was like, “that’s it?” Then I realized and said, “Oh…NO!” This is one of the most maddening games ever.
Can't wait for the DLC: JUST TAKE MY CASH!
Chester Mercado same here
One of the frenchiest Frenchmen that has ever frenched.
Watched the whole thing before I realized there are subtitles...
I feel like you're stretching a bit by including him talking about the ghost jump. The ghost jump is a core game design philosophy decades old as he himself said in the video. I'm guessing you didn't have enough quality footage in this case to hit the magic 10 minute mark you stretched to meet. I love your channel but criticism is given when criticism is due. It's not really a war story, it's more basic game design 101.
totally agree! I feel like I'm growing crazy!
Yeah, juste watched this video and the second part (with problem-solution) really feels disconnected from the first and the whole random generation issues they ran into, which is a much more recent topic than ghost jump (/kayoji time ?)
Gamespot's channel has a video called "How Dead Cells Secretly Stops You From Dying" that goes more into this, but the issue of the game not being fun to play was a huge one for their team. They discovered that players were fine with the game having hundreds of little fixes, like the ghost jump or auto-facing enemies on attack.
Really like the Love Daddy shirt
I know, right??
I have Dead Cells on ps4 & switch, because of this interview imma buy it again on GOG. Motion Twin clearly know how to empathize with players and listens to constructive feedback. Thanks for this badass game.
Ok how do you get past the elite guy with a bow that shoots two arrows? That is a serious question. Can you skip that fight cuz I run into him all the time and kills me. any help would be greatly appreciated.
Dead cells has one of the best kinaesthetics that i have ever experienced in games, along with Celeste
When they speak english but you turn on subtitles just in case
Anyone knows the music playing in the background from 7:32?
love this game. nice to see the people behind it.
I really identify with what he said about controls. If a game controls well its a selling point for me.
"We're all leads so that doesn't matter" :D
I'm playing dead cells right now while listening to this on my second monitor.
Wait can someone explain the jump mechanic to me? So the game lets you jump and land on platforms a few pixels off the platform. How does this design compare with just making the player be able to jump farther and higher? I personally encounter the problem described because the game forces me to be precise in my jumps. A full jump barely lets me able to reach the next platform. Otherwise I would just jump earlier.
It's a simple solution (sometimes called "coyote time") that just allows player to jump while falling in mid-air provided they haven't fallen too much. It provides a little grace period once you run off the edge of a ledge to still jump even though your feet aren't contacting the ground. It doesn't make much sense physics-wise but it makes the game a bit more forgiving if the player hits the jump button a fraction of a second too late after they've already slipped off the edge of a ledge. It's only forgiving for when the players jump a tad too late, not when they jump too early.
Never understood the "frog in throat" saying about French people until today...
the jump was what celestes had called coyote time
“The problem”
Me: thinks of me, the player...
The game's perfect, no problems at all and is designed to make us do many things and to not get greedy is not one of them. (I'm saying we're the problems). this is clearly just my own opinion so no hard feelings.
For console platformers, that grace period where you can still jump after leaving a platform is necessary because most TVs are so slow haha
The last few updates have been great
The updates saved the game for me. I was kind of over how it played originally, but it feels so much better at this point.
the electric whip is the only thing you need in the game
the starting over thing made me regret buying it. Its a game I want to get deeper and deeper in and not have to start over every time I die. But I didn't mind spending the loot because we need game developers like this.
I loooove this game. Even early access.
neat interview, but I feel scared of playing this game, since I'm not really good at roguelike games
Getting better is a big part of the draw in rogue like games. Because you have to restart if you lose, the most valuable thing you can acquire on your journey is knowledge and skill. Its fine if you suck at it at first, but if you enjoy improving and don't mind challenging it over and over again, you'd be able to enjoy roguelikes too!
I love Dead Cells so much! It's such a good game!!
so true the controls are so good in dead cells
I bought this game 3 times.
Great video and an excellent game!
This is in my shortlist of games to buy.
Can someone please explain why I keep dying on the same elite soldier on the second level or is there a way to avoid it all together?
There are some unavoidable elites you have to face in order to unlock runes that let you progress further into newer areas of the game.
Until you have defeated them at least once, all maps will automatically corner you into the room where you'll face said elite.
@@R.A.V.S.O. thanks man I really appreciate it. have a good one. Oh and happy holidays thanks again guess I just gotta get better.
@@R.A.V.S.O. I just got the vine tickle thing so maybe that makes things quicker? I dunno but thanks again I really appreciate it. Alright sorry I'm not gonna bother ya again.
@@joeychill4364 yeah, basically that's how you'll progress through the game, you explore new areas and try to make it as far as you can, if you're suddenly stuck, odds are, there is an elite nearby you have to eliminate to get the next rune to proceed,
Runes carry over as permanently unlockable items, so no need to play extremely cautiously
@@R.A.V.S.O. got it thanks again.
I love this Game, but I would like ultrawide support
Ah yes, Coyote time. Named after Wil. E. Coyote. A staple of Jump and Run developers for decades
STOP WATCHING EXTRA CREDITS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
@@blisterfingers8169 ...
...
No
Excellent dev, excellent game.
Best War Story so far.
Good philosophy there, man !
This video title was all driving us to the fact that coyote time is in this game? A normal thing for most platformers...?
Pretty sure I learnt French from watching this video.
So you're telling me people named Sébastien aren't always butlers?
Is it just me or does this guy REALLY need some subtitles? I wasnt even sure he was speaking english at first...
He does have some subtitles. Captions.
Imagine getting past The King’s Hand
The fan who suggested sticking to single player is a legend.
I dunno I would pay for DCL with the multiplayer aspect. It was good they refined the game, however it would be interesting to see that refinement forged into the original idea of multiple people.