Agreed big time 5:55. That level of specificity is only required if you're in the sport (or just genuinely obsessed with building the biggest total of the big 3 possible, which is kind of weird IMO if not competing, but then we're all a bit off in this community). Obviously the big 3 are still great movements and most people would be better off having them in rotation, but the relationship between them and other variations doesn't really make a fuck if a non competitor. Well said here dude.
Our entire concept of "specificity" needs to be revised. So-called suboptimal exercises like Zombie squats, strict presses and cleans built more versatile strength and physical robustness than anything else
Yeah, it really depends on the stage of development and the goal in many ways. For example, you've gotta get highly Specific in powerlifting *at some point* or you won't be competitive. You've gotta get highly Specific if the goal is to do so etching extremely narrow and precise like shave a tenth of a second off a 100l dash. But beyond that, sport Specificity is VASTLY overrated as a concept and so is the carryover idea in general strength and conditioning.
The sport-specificity/carryover concept is one I've seen go absolutely insane in the combat sport strength/conditioning meta. They end up doing movements that are SO sport-specific that they can't even load them adequately (like say, getting into a bear crawl position, and doing a press out with a cable instead of an overhead press because "we get into this position in grappling"). It was an old albeit ubiquitous notion that doing weight training would make you slow and muscle bound in boxing, but now they've just taken it to a new silliness by having all their strength movements look like Joel Seedman movements where you're balancing on one leg or performing some random lateral movement before a press with a ball - and this is for BEGINNERS too! None of these movements are bad or useless, but they make them the entire program rather than ever doing base movements to get general strength in athletes that have a sub 1/2/3 plate bench, squat, and DL. They are ALWAYS talking about carryover and sport specificity to a point that they've totally lost the plot. Some goals require serious attention to these concepts absolutely, but it has gone insane.
Yeah, I agree. As someone with a long history with the barbell lifts and who does jiu-jitsu and used to be an MMA fighter, I also think the S&C training most fighters do is pretty weird and misguided. Specificity makes a lot of sense in terms of conditioning, and not a lot of sense in terms of strength and power. That's why I think conditioning should largely be done in a sport-specific way (e.g., heavy bag and mitt work circuits, shark-tank grappling, etc.) and when there is a need for non-specific endurance boosts (VO2 max improvement) or you simply want safer options (Volkanovski style MMA circuits may just injure a heavyweight), then I think sticking to the aerodyne bike is as good as it gets. For strength and power. I think the tried-and-true basics are all you need, especially since time to train these attributes is limited. So, basic heavy compound lifts, almost exclusively with barbells, is pretty much all they need for that. If a fighter can't deadlift twice his bodyweight, why is he worrying about anything else on the strength front? For power/explosiveness, I still think the basics are all they need. Some box jumps and Olympic lifts (or their easier variations like high pulls and push presses) are pretty much all I think is worth focusing on. And those are things which can be progressed. Your power-clean should measurably go up in two years, as should your box jump. And if those both go up, you simply are a faster, more powerful fighter.
@TheLockon00 I agree 100% with everything you said here. Spot on. I wish people understood how much benefit they'd get from just getting generally stronger, faster, more powerful. The Olympic lifts are amazing for his but the skill acquisition can be prohibitvely difficult so low-skill variations like power cleans, push press, landmine jerk, snatch grip high pulls, box front squats, etc are all really useful. I especially agree with what you said about specificity of cardio/S&C - this is much better, like, doing jump rope in intervals that represent the round structure of a fight, mittwork like you said etc because then you get both skill work and specific conditioning at the same time. Even the old 'go for a run! Put in your roadwork miles!' could be much better. Appreciate the comment dude.
@@Dementia.Pugilistica Thanks, man. Yeah, it's weird watching the pros train. So often I see elite fighters doing two things that I just scratch my head at. The first is they do a number "functional" strength exercises that clearly have very limited load capabilities, while at the same time any footage that does exist of said fighters doing basic barbell lifts shows them using pretty pathetic weights (some exceptions like Jon Jones and Arnold Allen). The second is they often seem like they're doing a million different exercises of this sort and barely seem proficient in the movements. It always looks like they just got shown the movement that day. These athletes presumably have impeccable coordination, so it shouldn't take long for a good coach to teach them how to perform these goofy movements with decent comfort and precision. Yet it usually looks like a technical shitshow when they perform most of the movements. Do you know what I mean?
@@TheLockon00man, it is so easy to get lost in the woods with grappling specific movements. At least in striking , you got no more than three different strikes per limb, compared to all the technique related stuff. Though you also would train internal and external rotation of the hips, pronation of the wrist, outward rotation of the shoulder, ankle stiffness.. a lot of different exercises if you are looking to isolate. I personally would mostly do mobility to ensure good ROM, then focus on the bigger muscle (the hips') and would do an all'encompassing movement like a push-pull on a functional trainer or medicine ball punch-throw, a dumbbell uppercut, a cable front kick,(assuming a degree of proficiency at the strikes themselves) etc...
No shit, I was that guy for the longest time. I wouldn’t do pull downs/ups because, “my deadlift doesn’t go up.” Oh how foolish I was. Great video keep up the great work!
Great Video! If you love fitness and want to see your numbers explode. Enjoy the process, build your base, pick 3-4 variations of your main movements and grow in those movements. No you will not see immediate carryover with some movements. But after some practice with the main movement getting on a more specific program and all the work you put into your craft depending on the movements you pick your work will show
Solid advice. Don't try to chase movements that's regarded as "optimal". Just make sure to cover most basic movement patterns push, pull, squat, hinge and pick exercises that you enjoy the most
At last! Someone who can think!! We can waste a lot of time chasing a number on any given lift that we just don't have the potential to reach. If you're young and in your physiological prime and well versed in training methodology and in 10 years of obsessively chasing,say, a 400lbs bench and failing miserably then you'd be better off diversifying a bit.
I think every lift should build something that carries over to something. It doesn't have to be a 1 to 1 carry over, and it doesn't have to be those three specific lifts, but it should develop something somewhere. I like the video though because the biggest fuckeries I've been involved in as a lifter were when I was trying to find variations that would get lifts unstuck. I mean I should be able to fuck around with things until I restart the noob gains again right? Lol
I see so many people espouse the meme that deadlifts don't carryover to the squat or anything else so just squat more or do RDLs. Or that OHPing doesn't carryover to the bench so just bench more. It's a great way to stay small, get imbalances and overuse injuries.
Front squat, overhead push presses, high pulls…😁 I’m adding overhead squats and. Pull ups. I never considered the carryover to the big 3. Simple criteria. Lower body Push/Pull. Upper body Push/Pull
How often do you incorporate single leg work? I find myself wanting to stick to bilateral squats but some say you need single leg work to be a “well rounded athlete.” I feel like just squating 2x a week and then doing athletic stuff outside of the weight room covers your bases. What are your thoughts?
I feel like doing single legged work is very nice from a hip mobility perspective. You can get a lot more different angles with single-legged exercises.
Just started doing pin squats as my main squat and it’s my favorite exercise of all time and I have no care at all about the carryover. They’re just so fun to push the shit out of my legs and my quads have never felt more toasted ever
I went for two months doing only front squats. When I returned to back squats, I was weaker at them. The strength on back squats came back quickly. Over the long term, I found its meaningless to specialize in one lift. I'd rather be good at many lifts, than great at a few
It depends on the stage of development. A less advanced athlete only needs to worry about mastering their sporting skills by practicing the sport itself, and about improving general strength, explosiveness, and athletic capacity. It's only once somebody becomes advanced in a particular realm that you would need to worry about targeting specific physical qualities to enhance aspects of a specific sport. And even then, probably an overrated concept for the vast majority of athletes (unless you are trying to do something very specific like shave a tenth of a second off your 100m dash). Just getting bigger, stronger, more powerful, and improving overall athletic capacity will set most people up for success. Sport specificity is an overrated concept as well imo.
Sth weird Is happening to me I've just ended my cut but I stop benching completely, now I cannot bench the same amount of weight that i used to but I'm stronger on every horizontal and vertical press than ever before. That means I've lost the skill?
The real questions to ask are: Does this exercise carryover to: - Sprinting Speed? - Vertical Leap Height? - Punching Power? - Kicking Power? - Throwing Velocity or Distance? - Strength While Wrestling/Grappling? Who cares about powerlifting numbers? Lifting weights is a means to an athletic end. Not an end in itself.
I never really connected with Powerlifting, for me it seems incomplete to only be strong on 4 lifts. Right now im doing a mix of general strength and bodybuilding with one day kickboxing
Agreed big time 5:55. That level of specificity is only required if you're in the sport (or just genuinely obsessed with building the biggest total of the big 3 possible, which is kind of weird IMO if not competing, but then we're all a bit off in this community). Obviously the big 3 are still great movements and most people would be better off having them in rotation, but the relationship between them and other variations doesn't really make a fuck if a non competitor. Well said here dude.
Our entire concept of "specificity" needs to be revised.
So-called suboptimal exercises like Zombie squats, strict presses and cleans built more versatile strength and physical robustness than anything else
Yeah, it really depends on the stage of development and the goal in many ways. For example, you've gotta get highly Specific in powerlifting *at some point* or you won't be competitive.
You've gotta get highly Specific if the goal is to do so etching extremely narrow and precise like shave a tenth of a second off a 100l dash.
But beyond that, sport Specificity is VASTLY overrated as a concept and so is the carryover idea in general strength and conditioning.
Wait lmao who is out there saying strict presses are suboptimal?
@@miguellorenzosingian1562 Stability demand-phobes
@@miguellorenzosingian1562powerlifters trying to get their bench up
Put on 50lbs on my front squat and only 10lbs on my back squat 😅
Bad advice from this chap
The sport-specificity/carryover concept is one I've seen go absolutely insane in the combat sport strength/conditioning meta. They end up doing movements that are SO sport-specific that they can't even load them adequately (like say, getting into a bear crawl position, and doing a press out with a cable instead of an overhead press because "we get into this position in grappling"). It was an old albeit ubiquitous notion that doing weight training would make you slow and muscle bound in boxing, but now they've just taken it to a new silliness by having all their strength movements look like Joel Seedman movements where you're balancing on one leg or performing some random lateral movement before a press with a ball - and this is for BEGINNERS too! None of these movements are bad or useless, but they make them the entire program rather than ever doing base movements to get general strength in athletes that have a sub 1/2/3 plate bench, squat, and DL. They are ALWAYS talking about carryover and sport specificity to a point that they've totally lost the plot. Some goals require serious attention to these concepts absolutely, but it has gone insane.
Yeah, I agree. As someone with a long history with the barbell lifts and who does jiu-jitsu and used to be an MMA fighter, I also think the S&C training most fighters do is pretty weird and misguided. Specificity makes a lot of sense in terms of conditioning, and not a lot of sense in terms of strength and power. That's why I think conditioning should largely be done in a sport-specific way (e.g., heavy bag and mitt work circuits, shark-tank grappling, etc.) and when there is a need for non-specific endurance boosts (VO2 max improvement) or you simply want safer options (Volkanovski style MMA circuits may just injure a heavyweight), then I think sticking to the aerodyne bike is as good as it gets.
For strength and power. I think the tried-and-true basics are all you need, especially since time to train these attributes is limited. So, basic heavy compound lifts, almost exclusively with barbells, is pretty much all they need for that. If a fighter can't deadlift twice his bodyweight, why is he worrying about anything else on the strength front?
For power/explosiveness, I still think the basics are all they need. Some box jumps and Olympic lifts (or their easier variations like high pulls and push presses) are pretty much all I think is worth focusing on. And those are things which can be progressed. Your power-clean should measurably go up in two years, as should your box jump. And if those both go up, you simply are a faster, more powerful fighter.
@TheLockon00 I agree 100% with everything you said here. Spot on. I wish people understood how much benefit they'd get from just getting generally stronger, faster, more powerful. The Olympic lifts are amazing for his but the skill acquisition can be prohibitvely difficult so low-skill variations like power cleans, push press, landmine jerk, snatch grip high pulls, box front squats, etc are all really useful. I especially agree with what you said about specificity of cardio/S&C - this is much better, like, doing jump rope in intervals that represent the round structure of a fight, mittwork like you said etc because then you get both skill work and specific conditioning at the same time. Even the old 'go for a run! Put in your roadwork miles!' could be much better.
Appreciate the comment dude.
@@Dementia.Pugilistica Thanks, man. Yeah, it's weird watching the pros train. So often I see elite fighters doing two things that I just scratch my head at.
The first is they do a number "functional" strength exercises that clearly have very limited load capabilities, while at the same time any footage that does exist of said fighters doing basic barbell lifts shows them using pretty pathetic weights (some exceptions like Jon Jones and Arnold Allen).
The second is they often seem like they're doing a million different exercises of this sort and barely seem proficient in the movements. It always looks like they just got shown the movement that day. These athletes presumably have impeccable coordination, so it shouldn't take long for a good coach to teach them how to perform these goofy movements with decent comfort and precision. Yet it usually looks like a technical shitshow when they perform most of the movements.
Do you know what I mean?
@@TheLockon00man, it is so easy to get lost in the woods with grappling specific movements. At least in striking , you got no more than three different strikes per limb, compared to all the technique related stuff. Though you also would train internal and external rotation of the hips, pronation of the wrist, outward rotation of the shoulder, ankle stiffness.. a lot of different exercises if you are looking to isolate.
I personally would mostly do mobility to ensure good ROM, then focus on the bigger muscle (the hips') and would do an all'encompassing movement like a push-pull on a functional trainer or medicine ball punch-throw, a dumbbell uppercut, a cable front kick,(assuming a degree of proficiency at the strikes themselves) etc...
No shit, I was that guy for the longest time. I wouldn’t do pull downs/ups because, “my deadlift doesn’t go up.” Oh how foolish I was. Great video keep up the great work!
ive heard some pink guy say this. i ve also heard him say "faahves" s lot.😂
@@satabdeesahooRippetoe literally has videos about chin ups
Great Video!
If you love fitness and want to see your numbers explode. Enjoy the process, build your base, pick 3-4 variations of your main movements and grow in those movements. No you will not see immediate carryover with some movements.
But after some practice with the main movement getting on a more specific program and all the work you put into your craft depending on the movements you pick your work will show
Solid advice. Don't try to chase movements that's regarded as "optimal". Just make sure to cover most basic movement patterns push, pull, squat, hinge and pick exercises that you enjoy the most
would surely love your take on harder deadlift variations loke snatch grip deadlifts and deficit snatch grip deadlifts, deficit stifflegged dls
At last! Someone who can think!! We can waste a lot of time chasing a number on any given lift that we just don't have the potential to reach.
If you're young and in your physiological prime and well versed in training methodology and in 10 years of obsessively chasing,say, a 400lbs bench and failing miserably then you'd be better off diversifying a bit.
Just here to say farmers carry the goat exercise
I think every lift should build something that carries over to something. It doesn't have to be a 1 to 1 carry over, and it doesn't have to be those three specific lifts, but it should develop something somewhere.
I like the video though because the biggest fuckeries I've been involved in as a lifter were when I was trying to find variations that would get lifts unstuck. I mean I should be able to fuck around with things until I restart the noob gains again right? Lol
I see so many people espouse the meme that deadlifts don't carryover to the squat or anything else so just squat more or do RDLs. Or that OHPing doesn't carryover to the bench so just bench more. It's a great way to stay small, get imbalances and overuse injuries.
In all fairness, I am overly specialized right now. But that is how im having fun
One bench variation that has become a favorite is reversegrip
randomly outlawed in certain powerlifting federations lol never understood why!
Front squat, overhead push presses, high pulls…😁 I’m adding overhead squats and. Pull ups. I never considered the carryover to the big 3. Simple criteria. Lower body Push/Pull. Upper body Push/Pull
How often do you incorporate single leg work? I find myself wanting to stick to bilateral squats but some say you need single leg work to be a “well rounded athlete.” I feel like just squating 2x a week and then doing athletic stuff outside of the weight room covers your bases. What are your thoughts?
I feel like doing single legged work is very nice from a hip mobility perspective. You can get a lot more different angles with single-legged exercises.
Great lifting content 😀
Thanks man!
Just started doing pin squats as my main squat and it’s my favorite exercise of all time and I have no care at all about the carryover. They’re just so fun to push the shit out of my legs and my quads have never felt more toasted ever
glad you enjoy it bro! pin squats hit different, most people aren't ready for it.
Great vid. Comment for the engagement 💍
I'm only 800 pounds shy of a 1,000 pound bench press.😁
The bar shouldn't be any lower than the rear delts.
That and the upper traps make a perfect shelf for the bar to rest on
I went for two months doing only front squats. When I returned to back squats, I was weaker at them. The strength on back squats came back quickly. Over the long term, I found its meaningless to specialize in one lift. I'd rather be good at many lifts, than great at a few
Is this video a preliminary before you reveal your calf raise ambitions for a year?
In the end specificity is indivitual
Deadlifts have a huge carryover for construction workers. Squats and bench are great also, but deads are #1
How would you evaluate if a movement carries over to a sport?(I do bjj and play volleyball)
It depends on the stage of development. A less advanced athlete only needs to worry about mastering their sporting skills by practicing the sport itself, and about improving general strength, explosiveness, and athletic capacity. It's only once somebody becomes advanced in a particular realm that you would need to worry about targeting specific physical qualities to enhance aspects of a specific sport. And even then, probably an overrated concept for the vast majority of athletes (unless you are trying to do something very specific like shave a tenth of a second off your 100m dash). Just getting bigger, stronger, more powerful, and improving overall athletic capacity will set most people up for success. Sport specificity is an overrated concept as well imo.
Sth weird Is happening to me I've just ended my cut but I stop benching completely, now I cannot bench the same amount of weight that i used to but I'm stronger on every horizontal and vertical press than ever before. That means I've lost the skill?
Potentially. If you're stronger you're stronger. That's part of the problem with using such a limited number of movements as the almighty gauge
The real questions to ask are:
Does this exercise carryover to:
- Sprinting Speed?
- Vertical Leap Height?
- Punching Power?
- Kicking Power?
- Throwing Velocity or Distance?
- Strength While Wrestling/Grappling?
Who cares about powerlifting numbers? Lifting weights is a means to an athletic end. Not an end in itself.
Front squat go up = Clean + Jerk go up
"I have to maximize my squat, bench, and deadlift at all costs." 🤓
"I like lifting heavy shit in a variety of ways." 😏
and the genius strikes again. very true people are using powerlifting as a method of measure of strength between two people
crazy right!
Couldn't you make the agreement that it depends on the person like you and rdls
The context of this video is people who don't take part in an activity that requires specific goals, don't have to worry about carryover.
any zercher vids in the pipeline?
Probably, but still too early for me to speak on the topic!
@@EnkiriElite nice! Id just be interested in your take. its a pretty unique movement i usually just throw in for fun or when my knees need a deload.
instead of being sbd centrict, we should be power clean centric.........
Maybe the real question is will it carry over into old age
no it isn't. Could you imagine how miserable humanity would be if that question dictated everything?
Deadlifts are an accessory exercise: change my mind
I never really connected with Powerlifting, for me it seems incomplete to only be strong on 4 lifts.
Right now im doing a mix of general strength and bodybuilding with one day kickboxing
First
Did you just throw up? 1:23