A bonus mini-essay discussing the way that some ATSV details don’t always seem to fit perfectly, and what that points to, available for all Patreon supporters to read now: www.patreon.com/posts/endnote-sony-and-84222986?Link& Also, thanks to Actual Fandom (www.youtube.com/@ActualFandom) for catching me up with some of that recent reactionary Miles Morales nonsense)
So the multiverse and the Web of Life with all the Spider People is comics canon but I’m 90% sure most of the “canon events must happen” especially of the “being spider man (but especially Peter Parker) sucks” variety is because of that one time a Peter Parker killed his universe’s Mephisto, breaking his omnipresence and causing the rest of him to throw a bitch fit and curse all the spiders man, but especially Peter. I somewhat doubt Spiderverse is going to bring the literal devil into this but I might be surprised.
Now do Nick Fury Jr. Oh and how about Jane Foster Thor. I'd love to see how you justify her taking his name. THOR is not a mantle, nor a title. It's literally his name. Marvel totally doesn't have a problem with white male characters. That's totally not why they "mantle Swapped" them all. Spider-Man, Thor, Captain America, Iron man, Hulk, Wolverine, Hawkeye. Should I keep going?
honestly i view the whole cosmic determinism thing differently. it's bad on purpose so in the future they can begin breaking it down and exposing what's so bad about it. that's what i feel this film has been in that regard. establishing a precedent, and breaking it with Miles.
@@PillarofGarbage I think it's likely that the spidermen in the spider society have alredy had their tragic canon events happen before joining (The exeption being Gwen) I think it is also interesting that Miguel is the lider of the Spider Society being himself an "anommalous" take on spiderman
@@joyboy475 I mean there's a lot of things the audience could already figure out before going into any superhero movie. Fans of Miles' comics would have already know his uncle was the Prowler and that he would likely die, just as we knew it was pretty unlikely that the movie would actually end with Miles failing to become Spider-Man and Kingpin destroying the universe. Sure, all being told, we can be pretty sure Miles, his dad, and most of the Spider-people we care about will live. That doesn't mean we can't enjoy the stakes as presented within the movie itself for what they are though.
@@PillarofGarbage yeah in the video it comes across as if you misunderstood what the movie is trying to say when it is kinda obvious that Miles is right about Canon events being stupid.
Another hint from the writing is Hobie Brown's presence. Brown is built up in multiple ways not only a great Spider Man but also a moral compass. As soon as Hobie leaves in the middle of the movie, you know that the Spider society has also lost moral authority as well.
That makes no sense in context though when they raceswapped Jessica Drew and changed her costume. Also people love the movie Miles. It's an allegory for the people who think spider-man has to suffer to be interesting which is most if not all spidey fans. But there is a point where it becomes meaningless and gratuitous like zeb wells's run. It is a very interesting question and Miles had already earned our hearts and his place among them so we truly don't know where this story will go. It hasn't fully followed the comics at all so yeah its perfect for spidey discourse today. Idk If this makes sense. I'll make a video on it
Your interpretation is valid, but personally, I interpreted the film as a meta-commentary on how the editorial board at Marvel comics refuses to let Peter Parker's Spider-Man change as a character: He always must be a comically (eh?) unlucky bachelor who everyone hates, even though he almost always does the right thing, because the writing staff refuses to stop stomping him into the dirt. Miles Morales is the example showing that a Spider-Man story CAN BE TOLD DIFFERENTLY, and that the decision-makers at Marvel Comics should do better.
Great point! While only having read Saladin Ahmed's Miles comics and none other, what I loved the most on it was his dynamics with his family and friends, how Mile's parents and Ganke knew of his identity and often took part on his adventures. It felt fresh, full of potential and a sweet thing on itself.
@qwerty687687 This is my understanding from familiarity with major events in the mainline Spider-Man series. Every time it looks like Peter and MJ are finally going to tie the knot, or his life is otherwise going to improve, some contrivance disrupts things and restores the status quo of Spider-Man being alone and miserable. I'm not a telepath, but it's not exactly a stretch to infer the editorial motives behind these storytelling choices. To my knowledge, Marvel doesn't have any say over the stories Sony is or isn't allowed to tell with Spider-Man characters. Sony owns the full movie rights.
For me, it seems the whole "groupthink" mentality plays into this. Cause we do see that Miles isn't the only one who disagrees with these rules Miguel has established and his rebellion does sway several other spidermen to his side.
Also keep in mind, most of the spiders are sardonic, cheeky, and intentional. Maybe the fact that Miles is out stripping them is because they’re all not into the chase. Most of them seem to be having fun, expecting Miles to play by the rules, and are comically clumsy, even though they are all TENURED SPIDER-PEOPLE. The person who’s frustrated by the chase? Miguel. The person who’s ACTUALLY keeping pace with Miles? Also Miguel. Miguel has a considerable amount of disadvantages as a Spider-Man, and he doesn’t have the patented spider humor, not to mention he’s trying to wield the Spider Society like a strike force while it essentially works like a college campus. Peter B. and Gwen are trying to talk to Miles, Ben Reilly and Jess are just following the rules, and Spider-Punk ACTIVELY subverts Miles’ apprehension. It’s probably not far off to think that the other Spiders don’t fall along the spectrum of: ‘I’m not actually gonna catch this kid’ to ‘Sure, Miguel, I’ll chase him’. The spider-people not catching Miles seems like it has the potential to be a feature, not just a bug.
And remember the Spider-Woman over the go home machine had a chance to stop him and chose not to. Like if they really watched the movie and understood it Miles beating them makes perfect sense.
@@parthasarathipanda4571 The thing is it __is__ out of character. Because at this moment, they are not being Spider-men. It is not the viewers who are entitled, but the Spider-men, who have shrunk away from how they are supposed to act. Also see the original commenter, they're just there to chill lol
On the subject of the first bit, I think the movie is suggesting by the end that (SPOILERS) Gwen’s dad stepping down and the abnormality of Miles’ spider bite show that “canon events” aren’t exactly what Miguel is saying they are. Maybe he’s withholding information, or maybe there’s something he isn’t aware of, but I think that the concept is supposed to be logically flawed, to suggest that it’s not the whole truth.
My theory is that the reality that collapsed did so because Miguel simply was there, not because the canon event was stopped. He caused a contradiction, not because a dead man now seemingly lived, but because he himself wasn't supposed to be there
I definitely think that he isn't aware of it, I think there's a lot he doesn't know and is just scared after what happened to him. When Gwen tried to talk to him at the end, she said "We don't KNOW what will happen-" and he cuts her off and says "Do you really want to find out?" He's learning just like the rest of them, he's just not willing to risk something this big, which is honestly fair. Like, I don't think he's necessarily in the wrong here. I mean, he could've done things more smartly, but if you truly believed that you had to let someone die to save literally infinite people and worlds, it doesn't take Reed Richards to make that simple of a calculation. Obviously he could've gone about things differently, but really Gwen is the one who caused all the problems to begin
I also think an element of him not understanding Spider-Man is gonna come in. He called Miles a random kid who got bit but that's what all them Spider people are. He don't get that cuz he's a very different spider-man
I'm really hoping they confront Miguel's theory and that it turns out that the reason the universe Miguel tried to live in collapsed because of him being there, not the canon event nonsense
Good point, That means that the one who can break the canon is the one who really belongs to the universe... Cuz the one who saved the Mubattan Police Captain... Was Miles. No Pavitr.
@@andresanguianozuniga6798 no, I mean his time there was the anomaly. I think what happened to Muhattan was the result of the spot not anything miles did
@@andresanguianozuniga6798 yeah. The hole clearly looked like one of Spot's and didn't look anything like what happened when Miguel replaced that version of himself
@@TheLeftistOwl I kind of thought the same thing when I saw it. I'm a little unsure due to the 'vision' thing that the Spot gives Miles. But I think Miguel's got the wrong of the stick canon wise. Since we've seen that anything out of universe causes glitching (in both the first movie and this one) I find it really weird that they blame the non-happening of specific events that assume (among other things) that every universe has a concept of 'police' or a Spider-man that would build those kind of close relationships with a policeman, rather than blaming the Universe-holing technology that they all have strapped to their wrists and frequently use to throw things around dimensions. Beyond that I think Miguel just has a bit of a flat understanding of 'canon events' surely these events are important because of how they influence Spider-man (Pavitr doesn't learn he has limits because he never faces a no-win scenario, Miguel makes a selfish decision rather than take responsibility for his actions) rather than just due to the exact semantic features of the event. If Miles' Dad dies because he's locked in a prison in another dimension, he's not going to learn his limits and improve as a Spider-man, he's going to learn that none of his so called heroes can be trusted and have the most confusing villain origin to explain ever. (Well probably not that far, but the event isn't going to play the narrative role its supposed to).
I feel like this movie has a meta narrative to go against Spiderman mythos as a whole. As I remembered, many people were concerned that MCU Peter Parker wasn’t truly Spiderman. He has it easy, he faced no consequences of his own action and he has no Uncle Ben; as in, he didn’t suffer enough to be Spiderman. Only after No Way Home and Aunt May’s death that people finally accepting he is Spiderman. So in Across the Spiderverse, the lost of a loved one is considered a canon event that cannot be changed, that every Spiderman has to go through; and Miles is challenging that notion. He saved the Police Inspector, which saved Pavitr from suffering yet Pavitr is still a Spiderman; and now he is on his to way to save his dad, challenging the canon event again.
See that doesnt even make sense out of universe because Miles did suffer loss with the death of Uncle Aaron. Was that not enough for people to say he's suffered? Oh wait, right. Racism.
It's still suffering and overcoming it. It's simply a different way of doing so. It's not disrupting the canon events, it's simply proving that there's more than one way that they may happen. It is not challenging it, but improving upon it.
The real issue with MCU Spider-Man wasn't that he didn't suffer enough; Holland's Spider-Man has the same issue that Disney's Spider-Man has, it's that they're not working class superheroes. Holland's first two villains are two Stark employees who got screwed over. Batman is rich, Iron Man is rich, Mr Fantastic is rich, Green Arrow is rich... Spider-Man has a second job because his first doesn't cover all the bills. If Stark gives him the suit, and the tech, and the money, and the training... Like, c'mon, how's he supposed to be his own guy? Arguably No Way Home didn't fix Holland's Spider-Man by killing Aunt May, that was the least interesting thing it did. No Way Home fixed Spider-Man by making him one of us again. Not an ultra-wealthy super Pinkerton sponsored by daddy Stark, but a dude in a shitty apartment fixing his neighbourhood by putting on a silly costume and saving people from danger.
The reason why he beats all spider people , imo, is quite easy, he just wanted it more. Most of them were halfheartedly trying to stop him since a part of them knew he's right. That's why we only see Miguel catch up to him because he has no doubts that Miles is wrong. He is so set in his ways that he couldn't even see Miles outsmarting him. Miles's love for his dad was greater than their belief in their dogma.
Between Miles suffering a "canon event" in Uncle Aaron's death despite his supposed anomaly nature, to Gwens dad being ok, to Miles's very existence as an anomaly not dooming his dimension to doom, I think you were right that the causality argument was deliberately made to be faulty, and that they'll call back to that in the next one
Yeah especially the destiny angle of it all. If was truly up to destiny, that spider would have found a way to bite its "destined" target. But it still bit Miles anyway. It feels like what was told to us is really not what's happening or info is being withheld. All of the Spider people were bit by random chance. Anybody could have been bit if at the appropriate place at the appropriate time. The Destined Narrative seems to be an after the fact belief of Migel and the rest of the Spider Society. "Who decides that?" Who decides who is destined or fated to be Spiderman? Let alone the shit that follows.
@@jeremyusreevu237 how does Toby top this?? Or are you just saying that because nostalgia or because Miles isn't Peter? Stop being ridiculous and let people love this movie
@@bfvet117 When I said that it was mostly an ironic joke due to the memes that Toby gave us. I personally enjoy Toby the best, as the memes are iconic, and I really like his more unique and human portrayal of Peter Parker, but I can admit that Miles is better than him from an objective standpoint. Dude, you need to cool off and have a snickers.
I hope/think that they renamed "Across the spider verse part 2" to "Beyond the spider verse" because apart of the sequel is going to be breaking out of the hold of "canon events" that contain and define the "spider verse" and into a wider multiverse, "beyond the spider verse."
One of the major plot points in the movie is that all these other characters keep trying to tell Miles who he is and what his story should be. The greatest moment for me is when Miles upends all of that with one phrase: "Nah. Imma do my own thing!" While the first movie was about whether or not he was Spiderman, this second one seems to be about what kind of Spiderman does he want to be (as compared ot the hundreds of others).
Miles is in the comics because the people that write comics. They know need to pander to other races. Spiderman is white. Superman is white. People want to change the made up story. Look into it it's saying straight white man is bad. This is this world now.
This movie made me realize that anyone can be Spider-Man it doesn’t have to be only be Peter Parker, Miles Morales deserves to have the spider-man title.
@@erikuu96 Marvel went bankrupt years before they started introducing the diversity you lot complain about now. They're actually wealthier now than they were during the era you wish they'd return to.
@@thenewmase And if there was a white Black Panther the original black Black Panther would still exist. So I ask again, Would you enjoy a white Black Panther? Perhaps a white Luke Cage? Or is that "racist'"? Also, would you be OK with a white actor playing MLK?
@@alphaeagle9615 I already said ai don't care about Black Panther or Luke cage, I won't start watching/reading content about them either way. I also won't watch a movie with a white MLK because a historical movie that plays that loose with history always ends up being trash
Miles Morales is Spider-Man but also he’s his own character. I love how in both Spider-Verse movies (Including Insomniac’s Spider-Man) gives Miles a different personality and energy compared to Peter.
@@erikuu96 Miles actually doesn't have a love for science, he's a graffiti artist. He only studied science to learn how to make portals to see his friends again so...wrong.
@@erikuu96 Well if he is a Spiderman in a different dimension, he would have similarities to Parker like all the others do. But his core character is different.
If he's his own character why doesn't he have his own mantle? Why doesn't he have his own villains? Why doesn't he have his own powers? Why doesn't he have his own girlfriend? Why is everything he has Peter's sloppy seconds?
You've hit it on the head. When J. Michael Straczynski introduced the idea of Peter being a Spider Totem in the comics because the cool thing for the last 40 years or so is to retread Alan Moore's "The Anatomy Lesson", it added this fate/deterministic element to the Spider-Man story which broke the initial premise of Spider-Man. Becoming a hero was a *choice* Peter made, it was not destiny. I cannot tell you how much i love that there are Spider-Man writers who understand that and are applying that to Miles' story. The proper conclusion to the movie should be the dissolution of the Spider-Society, and by extension, the Spider-Verse itself, but we'll see if Marvel has the guts to allow Sony to do that.
I feel like Miles and Miguel embody two different pillars of Spider-Man morality. Miles is basically: You save everyone you can. No matter how hard, no matter the cost, Spider-Man always saves a life if he can. Miguel is: Spider-Man is about responsibility. Miguel is making himself responsible for maintaining the canon, and therefore the integrity of the multiverse itself. This is responsibility taken to its ultimate extreme, and Miguel is taking it so far he risks becoming ruthless and tyrannical...which is a very interesting spin on the concept of the responsibility of being Spider-Man. It is truly possible to see the point of both sides, which is what makes this the most delectable kind of conflict you can get in drama. I for one am dying to see the conclusion...
In an ideal situation (that Gwen begins when she forms her "Resistance" group), the Spider-Society would exist not to control the lives of the Multiverse's Spiders, but to support and protect them. The lesson of the parent is to make their children able to navigate and survive the world WITHOUT having to go through the same hardships the parent has. To impart strength without trauma. To grow without unnecessary pain. To reduce the strain on future generations.
It's sad that the existence of Miles has to keep being justified. Especially when I know some in the fandom want Peter to actually grow up and have stories set when he is in college. Miles should be allowed to take up that role as the high-school Spider-Man. And so what if Miles has some of the same villains as Peter? It's no different than Super-Girl, Kid Flash, or any generation of the X-Men.
Hey, that thing that bugs you about the spider society? My thought is that is exactly why the next film is Beyond the spider verse. They are making a closed loop of suffering for all spiders because they believe that any deviation results in reality breaking. My theory, and sorry if I’m right about this; is that SPOT is forcing a closed loop of loss upon all spiders to be ‘Their one true nemesis.’ If we think about three act structure, beyond will start in 42 before transitioning back to deal with Mile’s Dad and Spot. But that’s two acts. I think Spot is a much bigger outsider occurrence than even Jaime realized. The breaks in canon also appear to be SPOT. That hole in Nee Mumbai looks exactly like his larger holes. It was him with Alchemix ripping reality apart. If he now sees outside of time across all reality… then he would very likely be the source of harm to any universe that doesn’t punish Spider-Man.
For me, one of the greatest things that sets Miles apart from the other Spidermen is that his loved ones know he is Spiderman. He just came out and told them who he was. Part of the reason so many of the Spider people have dead relatives is the secret lives they led, secret lives that sometimes got their loved ones un-alived (but ot always). Miles upended that whole dynamic by just telling his parents who he was.
Peter keeping his identity secret always kind of irked me. I understand his reason, but in practice, every other week Aunt May or MJ or Gwen would be in some life-threatening situation regardless, so keeping his identity a secret to protect his loved ones has patently _never_ worked. If anything, it has the opposite result, because none of them ever knew they could turn to Peter for help in those situations (and would probably actively try to keep him out of things to protect him). For me, the best part of the Tom Holland spidey movies is that MJ, Ned and May all find out pretty early who he really is, which means he can lean on them for support and vice versa. And then the third movie undid all of that by erasing everyone's memories and going back to the same old trope. I really hope this doesn't stick in the next movie, because I was really enjoying the dynamic of Pete, MJ and Ned all working together.
Are you talking about in the comics? I'm not a big comic reader so I don't know but his loved ones in this movie don't know he is Spiderman. He did go to tell his mother but it was the wrong one. The only ones that know in his universe are Ganke (not sure if the spelling is correct) and his uncle just before he died. After reading this comment, I immediately thought that maybe Gwen's father finding out he is Spiderman is what saved him from dying. But that doesn't really work when you consider how his uncle died in the 1st movie
@@culchiefilms1791 In the game Miles mom & friends know that he's Spider-Man. So in Beyond The Spider-Verse his parents will most likely know as well.
In the comics, his parents, baby sister, best friend in Ganke, Girlfriend in Starling (Tiana Toomes), The Prowler and multiple people who are his allies know who he is. And it's really cool.
I have a theory that Miguel actually just wants to see all the spider men suffer the same way he has which would unfortunately make him less complex but I think could say something really interesting about how we are not actually shaped by our trauma which is honestly a bit unfortunate trope if you think about it. Like I get it but you don’t have to be traumatized to be good person or even hero
What defines Spider-Man and other Spider heroes is not the tragedies that befalls them, but by how they persevere and keep going and striving to do better. getting double-meta, it breaks canon more for Spider-Man to accept someone is going to die and not try to save them than it does for Spider-Man to do everything he can to save a person, no matter the outcome.
Thank you for this! *SOME SPOILERS AHEAD* I just walked out the movie theater seeing this film, and I’m glad I’m not the only one who saw this connection. It’s NO coincidence. The writers knew *exactly* what they were doing. Hope this doesn’t come off as a shallow reading, but I interpreted this adaptation of Miguel O’Hara as a commentary representing the anti-fandom. When Miguel was consistently telling Miles that he was not Spider-Man and never should’ve been Spider-Man, I totally flashed back to all the anti-fandom videos and comment sections I’ve had the displeasure of reading. But here we have Miles Morales, standing up and making a name for himself as Spider-Man. If I may charitable, maybe… yes. There are some points where Miguel (the anti-fans and Comicsgate), truly believe they are fighting for something righteous. Preserving the canon. But somehow, along the way, they stumbled and got lost. This is perfectly evidenced when Gwen scowls at Miguel and says “I thought you were the good guys…” It said a lot when Miguel had to keep repeating to himself, “We are the good guys, we are the good guys, we ARE the good guys…” Hmm… are you sure??? You don’t sound so sure. Lol! Then later Gwen rounded up her own troop of Spider-Men to defy Miguel and help Miles. Gwen represents the fandom ready to stand up. But again, this is just one guy’s interpretation. 😄 Loved the movie! Also, special shout-out for noticing the Trans-lighting when Gwen was talking to her father. Heh-heh! No coincidence there either.
This is literally what I've been saying since the film came out it's meta commentary on racist fans hating on Miles and calling him a mistake, an anomaly a race swapped Peter etc
Definitely - the whole "the wokes will destroy everything we care about" mantra of the toxic fanbase has a one to one mapping to the idea that not protecting the canon will literally wipe universes out of existence. They've honestly convinced themselves of that (well, the ones who genuinely do believe it - obviously there's a large subset of cynical grifters who don't care either way but are willing to pretend they do in order to milk those people for views).
Anti-fans and anti-fandom are a BS term made up by grifters who can't stand the idea of people not washing their favorite franchises with mindless praise all the time. Negativity is just as much of a part of fandom as positivity.
@BFVET 117 Imagine thinking that in the year of 2023, we still are faced with a wave of people who are so racist they can't tolerate the idea of a black spiderman. News flash: this isn't the 1950s.
They event had the scene in Doctor Strange 2 with Bruce Campbell's street food cart - the perfect opportunity to sneak in a multiverse bagel, and they botched it.
Brilliant video as always. As a West African female nerd it always feels like me just being born gets me labeled as "woke". It's been so disheartening to see the absolute wave of bigots growing bolder and bolder, and trying to shut them out as they refuse to listen or have good faith discourse exhausts and demoralizes me into thinking it's hopeless. But then I see your videos that are just articulated so thoroughly to perfection AND with a heaping helping of empathy, it gives me hope again. I'm just a random fan online, but thank you for existing and doing what you do.
In the comics, Hobie has actually just been going by spider-man lately and it's been interesting, people keep calling him Spider-Punk and he's been trying to move on from that.
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 from what someone told me India Spider Man met 616 Class Spider Man/Peter Parker and then he thought of himself as a off brand version which is pretty stupid I like Dyamic PS4/5 Peter and Miles have
From out of context, Miles Morales was in the very intense game of "Tag! You're It!" by the Spider-Men variants wanting to greet the newbie and check out what he can do with his spider powers.
We know from Doc Ock's time as Spider-Man that Peter often pulls his punches, even when fighting villains. It's no surprise then that the other Spidey's (aside from Miguel) aren't going all-out to take down someone who they essentially see as a misguided kid.
I just love the movies commentary on anti-fandom. Everyone says MILES isnt supposed to be spider-man. They'll accept anyone else EXCEPT him. They take 4 Green Lanterns, 4 Robins, 2 Flash.... People like Nerdrotic are just too dumb to realize that the real villain of Across the Spider-Verse was him.
There are ten green lanterns active currently. And technically 7 flashes. There is only ever 1 active robin, there is 1 nightwing, 1 Red Robin, 1 red hood. They have different titles because they are in the same universe The people with the same title in the same universe is when things get tricky and people use names. You can’t say green lantern, there is Allen, Hal, guy, John, Kyle, Jessica, Simon, and more. When this happens you say, Allen Scott or golden age green lantern, Hal jorden or silver age
Stan Lee himself discussed this point before. He talked about why Spider-Man wears a mask that covers his entire face instead of a cowl like Batman, and his reasoning was that he wanted Spider-Man to be a character that could be anyone. Anyone could be under that mask, and Peter Parker just happened to be the guy by fluke. The entire point of Spider-Man as a concept is that destiny is bull****, and that Peter being bitten was always a cosmic fluke. Responsibility and dealing with the hand you’re dealt have always been the core ethos of Spider-Man stories.
The whole movie has subtle arguments against so-called "comic-book" fans in general. The ones who feel they are super fans, by enforcing an arbitrary law of the canon of Spiderman. Each character in the film is a personification of the whole fandom. The proud mentor (Peter), the ones who want to preserve everything to save what they current love (Miguel), the ones who want to branch out and explore relationships (Gwen) and the ones who desire a radical narrative (Hobie). And the best part is that... for all their strengths and weakness's... they help to shape and define new characters into the universe. Peter will always be the OG... but Miles is the one we've all got eyes on, because we know he's ready to become his own Spiderman.
I've been struggling with the Spider-Verses concept of 'The Canon' since I saw the film and honestly thank you for showing me the perspective I was missing. Love it.
Spoiler for across the spider-verse Edit: this was mostly covered in the video. Miguel is completely wrong Both universal collapse was not caused by spidermen Both were caused by collider explosions Mumbatin was collapsing prior to Miles’s intervention 2099b was collapsing after Miguel arrived but not instantly 42 isn’t destroyed So that is what “beyond” means. Miguel’s view will be shattered and they move beyond.
I haven't seen anyone explicitly make the link to the collider being the problem. That's such a good point! I mean, the collider potentially destroying their universe is the entire driving plot point of the first movie, so it makes perfect sense. Miguel is making the classic mistake of confusing correlation with causation.
Miles Morales is Spider-Man, and a spectacular one... but his life experiences are a lot harder for me to relate to than Peter's are. Miles grew up with both parents for most of his life; he has, or had, a seemingly close relationship with extended family beyond his parents; he might not exactly be swimming in friends at school, but he certainly doesn't seem to feel or act like he's really alone or has trouble fitting in, either. And when everything around him goes as wrong as it possibly can, from what I can see Miles usually has a reliably available support network to help him bounce back and set things right. Those aren't the kind of circumstances I can really understand or relate to, and THAT is what makes it harder for me to connect with Miles than with Peter "was a lonely nerd in high school who works for an overbearing jerk and struggles to earn enough money to pay for his one ailing disabled/retired family member" Parker. Miles Morales *is* Spider-Man, and an amazing one... he's just not exactly my favorite. 😅 ...also, Miles already lost his uncle in the first Spider-Verse movie, so the next "destined target" being his dad and so quickly... seems a little weird?
This is an interesting perspective, as it is the opposite for me. I couldn't relate to Peter Parker in any other iterations so far. But I can relate to Miles, his life seems more ordinary, more "normal". I have to add that another layer is that Im latina and our families tend to be very close. I think it is super refreshing that Miles can be a normal kid, that gets along with people, that has a functional family, and still decides to be a hero. He didn't have to, he wasn't lonely or rejected, but he still chose that path after the spider bit him!
@@PamelaRubel yup, Miles' life being "normal/ordinary" is the TLDR for why I find it so hard to relate to and get invested in him 😄. I can still appreciate him somewhat as a change of pace, but it's hard to really go beyond that. Still, though, part of the point behind Spider-Man is that he (and sometimes she, and probably at least once somewhere out there they) is a hero for everyone. So I think it's ultimately a good thing to have different Spider-strokes for different folks.
It’s up to you. But , recently and because i read his comics as the ultimate and the new series ( the new comics are way better even better )right now. I relate to him with the weight of the legacy as a hero and the legacy of the family. Peter as spider-man only had Aunt May which is the reason why he put himself in danger. Peter became a hero because of his selfishness. Miles powers brought a solution to prove to the world that he can be useful. Miles was alone and scared with powers he could barely control but he managed to be1 open with his relatives how to use them . He always values honor and respect wearing the mask. Miles is somebody who always needed to get out of his comfort zone through his adventures. His personnality is completely different, he do what he can and doesn't care ppl think. His own weakness AND STRENGHT are his family. What i love is that the character know who he is.
@@StylePoints14 i see what you're trying to say but no, you have to be Wakandan and like a royal person i think so that doesn't translate :P also that character represents something. you cannot make that change, it would not work. Spider-man is just a guy. he's just a guy. and there's no race attached to him. he can be anyone. if you have a problem, you can just let it go. you can just not consume the content, okay? i promise it's okay to just step back and not say anything. just because you don't like something, doesn't make it wrong. i know you didn't ask and i am typing a lot, sorry but i like Miles Morales. and Spider-Man. ever since my childhood. and so it doesn't matter who he is. as there are many incarnations and variations. i enjoy many different types. so please take your weird takes somewhere else. or rather, nowhere else. i think that's some "goodadvice". so thank you, have a nice evening and i hope one day you can enjoy Into the Spider-Verse and it's sequels :3 sorry it was so long
@@skinnyyoungjiggy4471 No because this is more than just fiction. My kind is being erased in real life and fiction. So if there is no rules anymore, then yes Black Panther can be anyone. Anything can be made up in fiction. So a white royal Black Panther is perfectly reasonable, when you can just change anything in these story like you see fit. Don't tell me where to go with my takes. How about you take your weirdness some place else. You commented on another mans video. This is public space. The dumbest thing is not to say anything and you don't get to tell us what to say anymore. And it is terrible advice. It is just because you don't like hearing the truth. I want a white Wakanda. Lastly. You yourself threw out challenging and provocative statement, and now you cant handle being fired back upon... Anybody that thinks you can just swap original Spiderman or heroes in general go against the essence of good storytelling.... How about that
@@StylePoints14 we already had a white pan for and it kinda didn’t work and it was in a comic series that pretty much flopped years ago and then he called himself white tiger for some reason maybe if you learn that if you actually read comics but you clearly don’t
@@isaiahkayode6526 Doesn't change the clearly obvious agenda of black washing. It pretty much only goes one way, despite their being one short instance the other way.
I feel like the hypocrisy of the Spider Society is kinda the point? They think they know this ultimate, immutable truth, they've lost their way, and Miles is going to prove them wrong.
I think they should keep calling Miles just "Spider-Man" but they should start calling his comics "Ultimate Spider-Man" because A. It's a defunct title that's not being used anymore so why not? B. He is the only Spider-Man from the Ultimate Universe left so like it makes sense, and C. I really don't like the current titling convention of "Miles Morales: Spider-Man," like we don't call Peter's run "Peter Parker: Spider-Man" (well there was that series from the 80s called "Peter Parker, the spectacular spider-man" but you know what I mean), we call it "Amazing Spider-Man," I see no reason to not call Miles's run "Ultimate Spider-Man" so that we can distinguish them without just saying "Miles Morales spider-man and Peter Parker Spider-Man," we just say "amazing" and "ultimate"
That is a great idea. Because things get complicated within one universe There are at least ten green lanterns active on earth at any given time. And four headline flashes
Ok so this didn't age amazingly well because I didn't expect Ultimate Invasion to lead into a full relaunch, and once I realized it would, I assumed Miles would return to the UU for USM, so I guess now there's more reason not to. I still think changing the title would be nice, maybe to Spectacular Spider-Man (okay admittedly that would be confusing with Weisman's upcoming Spectacular Spider-Men but still), or for a more confusing title they could call his books Spider-Man Ultimate, or hell just take prefixless away from dan slott and give miles the prefixless Spider-Man series (or switch the main Peter Parker book over to prefixless and give miles ASM or something)
I'm 99.9% sure that Miguel's fear and trauma is what's making him believe that all universes must have the exact same events play out for every spider-man. Perhaps Miles will be the first to show that your destiny isn't written in stone. If you don't remember that Gwen's father was SUPPOSED to die according to "canon events", but he ended up living. That shows that Miguel's whole idea isn't what he thought it was.
Speaking of ATSV, I would love hear your thoughts on the spot and how they handled him. Him and his progression throughout the film was one of my favorite aspects of said film
I remember the directors did an interview soon after the film was released where they confirmed that they based the film's main conflict around the public reaction to Miles.
Honestly my issue with Miles was always how he was written. As a black kid, a black Spider-Man should've been great, but he was written as just a black Peter. These movies have made me actually appreciate Miles as his own character. He doesn't get hung up over Peter, he has a unique artistic interest. I don't think it's always an issue of race, especially from the perspective of a black fan. I absolutely loved Jace Fox becoming Batman because he had his own story, personality, and best of all had no real ties to the original. He was allowed to be his own man, and I like this version of Miles for finally being allowed to do the same.
He doesn't have the same artistic interests that he does in the movies, but the ultimate spider-man show also developed his personality more than the comics had, and it also was the first time he was adapted, if that would also interest you
I think The reason people say he isn't spider man is because he's a version of the character, not the og. Has nothing to do with hating him as a character. Personally if dick Grayson took the mantel of batman I couldn't care less, he isn't batman Bruce Wayne always will be.
Miles is Spiderman, but when he's with other Spidermen like in the insomniac games or the cartoons, I just call him miles because its easier. Just like in the movie when you say Spiderman everyone is confused as to who you're talking to.
Totally agree, both are Spider-Man. Like before this even became an argument I would of just said “oh yeah spiderman (miles morales)….. ect” because its just confusing. Peter Parker is Spiderman is the cultural consciousness. But it doesn’t mean Miles isn’t spider-man. And personally I prefer stories where his is the one and only. Like in the ultimate universe, I like the idea of him carrying a legacy that he’s not sure he could live up to, but finding his own way. Both are spider-man.
OK, thats in the Multiverse... And out of that? Cuz this debate TRASCENDS the Fictional thing. Out of the Fiction, we call Miguel Spider-Man *2099* I liked when Miles was called *Ultimate* Spider-Man. That at least gave him some... Identity.
@@mizore7054 More or less... There are characters who give us this debate too... Like Flash or Green Lantern. Maybe thats why i hate Miles being in the same universe as Peter... Its like Having Barry and Wally and Jay In the same universe and calling them all The Flash. Reason why at least i like more SpiderVerse, at least there we can say "Miles is Spider-Man in his universe". And then here comes Marvel... Obsessed with having Miles and Peter together to say "See?? He is Spider-Man too!! BOTH ARE!!"
@@youtubestayatyourrootsforfsake Here is what "Woke" means: performative diversity and inclusivity bias. People and corporations participating in actions that seem inclusive on the surface, but in actuality indicate a hollow pursuit at validation from others or is actually prejudice towards a race/sexuality/gender that is more in the majority because "They're in the majority, that means they're ok to bully". It is true that we shouldn't use the word "woke", but that's because, like you said, the word has become so transmogrified and abstract that we all have different ideas of what it should be. But the ideas that woke represent still permeate in our society and we should comment and critique them. Meanwhile "Anti-Fandom" never had an actual meaning besides "Wah! These people are saying negative things about a movie/tv show/book! That's not good! They should just be blindingly positive all the time!" It's a made up word used as an excuse to bully people who have disagreeing opinions and shill for a major company. (Drops mic)
@@jeremyusreevu237 theres no way you actually wrote "(drops mic)" at the end of that comment like it was some big truth bomb and not demonstrating you legitimately don't understand people's criticism of Anti-Fandom. lmao.
@@TSDTalks22 Look, dude. You're a cool channel, so I'm not trying to hate on you, but I understand people's "criticism" of Anti-Fandom. Like I said, Anti-Fandom is a nonexistent buzzword, that these people made up to describe individuals like Critical Drinker, Eric July, and Stitch and Adam, reasonable individuals with solid takes, that dare to disrupt the corporate status quo, and actually criticize corporate pandering and white knighting of minority actors and characters, or describe people who just have negative feelings towards any fandom related thing. I am not saying that there aren't members of fandoms that are toxically negative dickwads. Obviously there are. But it's clear that most of the individuals given this "Anti-Fan" label are just people who don't like a specific aspect of the media that they're a fan of. Don't like how The Last Jedi "subverted your expectations" by doing incredibly stupid, out of pocket things that make no sense for a Star Wars movie to do? You're an Anti-Fan! Criticizing Moses Ingram for saying that a franchise with a ton of black characters wasn't diverse enough before the Obi Wan show? You're an Anti-Fan! The people who use phrases like "Anti-Fan" and "Anti-Fandom" pretend that they're criticizing the toxic and negative aspects of fandom, when really they just hate the idea of fans criticizing anything related to their property, especially when it has something to do with tokenized, faux diverse representation. They're essentially the real life version of this: ua-cam.com/video/PwRnATII5dI/v-deo.html. And before you say "Oh, well that's not true, because they've disagreed with people respectfully before", uh no. That is 100% an "I can't be racist, my best friend is black" defense, because they only bring up these people they supposedly "disagree" with, when it's convenient for them to cover up their close minded asses, and the things they "disagree" with are often minor things that don't actually matter. The bottom line is that "Anti-Fandom" is a stupid buzzword made up by grifters in order to discourage non-corporate-approved thinking, and criticism of the precious brand and the precious corporate pandering, and the sooner that word dies out, the better we will be as a society. So yeah, I understand people's criticism of Anti-Fandom. (Drops mic again)
About the fixing of the dimensional rift in Mumbattan, Miguel says that they are trying to fix it, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. So their point still stands, they just don't want to risk it. My theory is, perhaps, the dimensional rifts occur if someone from another universe is changing the canon events. If Pavitra himself had somehow saved both Captain Singh and Gayatri then nothing bad would happen. Maybe.
Miles Morales is Spider-Man and this movie gave me everything ever wanted especially seeing my favorite character mayday parker spider-girl finally adapted in animation makes me so happy that i can't wait to see part 2 it's going to be really awesome and tons of fun.
This movie is soo good. That's all that needs to be said. Now I did have an issue with the most of the Spiders agreeing with Miguel because they wouldn't stand for this. It hurt when the Spectacular Spiderman even agreed but I get the why. All the characters were awesome. Thanks for the review Pillar.
if Miguel says that Miles is an anomaly, that he is not supposed to be Spider-Man, doesn't that mean that the 'canon' wouldn't apply to him? because he supposedly IS NOT Spider-Man (according to Miguel O'Hara)
I am pretty excited for another movie. I felt like Miles and Miguel both got done really well. Also loved seeing LEGO and Da Spidah-Git and Bagman and everything. But honestly... Miles being the real Spiderman and doing all the actual Spiderman things was great, and overcoming the spider society was both executed really well but also very on this message.
I am also thinking the determinism is made to be seen as bad. Like Part 2 is going to explore the problem with that view of the multiverse (and at the end, Gwen is seeing that this idea of canon event seems bullshit)
I feel like the the spiderverse is kind of like a metaphor for like well intentioned but overly dogmatic queer spaces, or progressive spaces in general. If there's someone who deviates from the prescribed norms of what spiderman (or a gay person, trans person, etc.) is seen by that group to be, they're persecuted for it and excluded from the group. But all this seems to be like a projection of the shared trauma. Like, I went through the death of my family, you do too. Or, I went through ostracization and marginalization because of my identity, so it's unfair that you don't. I doubt this was the full intention of the movie, but it does seem to speak to that feeling at least, the feeling of being queer "the wrong way". Anyway, great video as always :)
I’ve never understood the hate for Miles. Miguel O’Hara is also a mixed heritage character, and nobody ever claimed that he wasn’t Spider-Man when he debuted. Everyone was ecstatic when he showed at the end of Across… So what’s the difference within the culture, where Miguel is considered valid, and yet, Miles isn’t? Why is one cool and the other seen as lame, despite the latter having tons more appearances in outside media?
It is just people referred to miles as the ultimate spiderman Miguel as spiderman 2099 It is just when they have the same title you diffrienciate by universe or by name. And the most popular character is automatically the one where people don’t specify When things get into single universes things change. You say barry Allen, John Stewart, Jay Garrick, Hal Jordan after their title because they are in the same universe and you have to specify.
I think the reason nobody claimed that Miguel wasn't Spider-Man is because there wasn't a need to. By most he's considered Spider-man 2099 and established to be an alternative version of spidey whereas with Miles we just have to go with Spider-man while sharing that title with Peter who is more established and synonymous with that name. the race thing could be because Miguel can be seen as white passing plus the first intro of Miles had this air of him being the "brand new diverse Spidey for a new generation". Not to sound like one of those "anti sjw" people but the main reason why Miles was created was because of his race, not to say that he has no other purpose besides that. I never hated Miles, though before spider verse he felt like he was just there to be there, but I have a feeling he isn't going to be a character who stands on his own, at least in other media that isn't the comics. Miguel can stand on his own but that's because we've accepted that he's an alternate version whereas with Miles many want him to either be apart of peter's world, be like Nightwing to peter's batman, or take over the mantle for him.
probably because miguel was introduced and first written by stan lee and because he came out a time where "deep in the future, another hero rises to carry on the mantle" was a popular conceit (batman beyond came out at this time as well). it's pedantic but it's white nerdbros, pedantic is what they do.
@golden age he doesn't stand on his own. take Peter's version. he had almost all of his iconic villains show up in his initial days as Spider-Man and had so many great stories throughout the years. with miles, it's different. he has always been "black spiderman" because other than that he didn't have much going on. his parents and ganke are his only major characters. rogue's gallery is non existant(even prowler sucks in the comics) . spider verse and the Games developed him even so he's heavily dependant on peter. his love interest is gwen, his villians are Peter's villains.
I saw a lot of parallels between this movie and Peter's role in (comic) civil war. Working with a technologically superior older character who sounds like he's doing the right thing and then trying to escape outnumbered and outgunned in order to follow his gut and his conscience. That storyline kind of cemented what it means to be spiderman for me and miles is every bit living up to that
Also an important aspect of the perspective angle: To every other Spider-man, their canon events already happened to get them there, and there is no confirmed time travel in the film, so they can accept that things already happened. Meanwhile, Miles got a sight from the future from The Spot that was later confirmed by Miguel, but essentially, his event hasn't happened yet. So the decision he makes is the one that any Spider-man would make: I'll try to save everyone. That's why the time of the decision matters between the examples, between "already happened" and "still hasn't happened but it will".
Great video! And I agree. Miles Morales IS Spider-Man. Looking on it more, I actually likened his journey a lot to another character I love (but is also a really controversial example): Rey. I absolutely loved her journey across the sequels and found her journey of self-determination to be something akin to Miles’s. For both of them, they don’t let their circumstances or others hardline define who they are; they both gain confidence in themselves and strive to be heroes in their own ways. I also love how meta the movie is about Miles “defying canon.” It’s like a parallel to or fitting allegory for Star Wars and how we’re seeing new stories or characters push the boundaries of what’s possible, and seeing the community melt down over it.
Not gonna lie, when you said “you know what else is inconvenient and risky”, I expected you to go into a sponsor segment and say “using the internet without a VPN”
"You know what else is risky?" I had my finger hovering over fastforward in case the next words were "Browsing without a VPN." I have no time for sponsors.
@@jeremyusreevu237 What even is that? But no. Like, one channel in particular will upload a 26 minute video, but have a 3 minute sponsor for things that are US exclusive.
@@jeremyusreevu237 Oh, okay! No, not even him. Nor Mikey's Gruntyboi, either. I gave Daveo from Boyinaband a pass, and Brutalmoose's sponsor characters as well. Those are the only ones l feel compelled to watch every time. "Where did you get 20 Dollars?" "Found it on your floor." "I live in the UK!! Why would my dropped money be dollars?!"
I really hate the "It's always been done this way" argument in every situation. Nothing EVER stays the same, and no outcome is guaranteed. No matter what you do because we can not see into the future. No one has to be or do what someone else thinks they should. Besiders trying something new may garner better results. Miles being considered an anomaly means he can do whatever he wants. If he wasn't meant to be Spider-Man in the first place, why play by the rules that govern the stories of the others?
I think theres something to be said about mob mentality on the part of the spider society. (Spoilers) People were sounding off online about different individual spider people who are going along with miguel's plan that canonically probably wouln't (the most common example being Spectacular Spider-Man, though really it could apply to pretty much anyone including the main characters like Gwen and Peter B.) And the thing is, I think they're right, and that that's part of the point. Miguel started the society small, going one by one to find spider-people, and if the small group started with this general philosophy near the beginning, then it makes sense that as the group grew larger, new individuals were going along with the crowd of their peers, so to speak. Everyone might have doubts, but they also think that everyone else doesn't have doubts, so they justify it to themselves. A lot of them have already lost people in their "canon events", so it makes sense that miles, who hasn't had his canon event happen yet, would be the only one to rebel (besides hobie of course, but hobie was always going to be anti establishment like the badass he is). So yeah. I think that the spider society being wrong and slightly out of character is sort of the point in of itself. I can't wait for part 2 to see how they handle this.
The things about what happened in Mumbatten is firstly if Miguel knew that it was going to happen, why did he send Gwen after The Spot in the 1st place and why was he angry with her when she failed? If she caught him wouldn't that have prevented that canon event anyway? But also I know the movie wants to make is believe that the black hole was caused by the canon event being prevented, but I personally believe that's not the case. It just seems more like an accident caused by the Spot. There are a lot of inconsistencies in the whole canon event and anomaly story. Since its just part one of a two part movie I can't tell if they are just plotholes or if they are going to inform how the story ends. I hope its the latter but I can't yet figure out how they could play into the story. The most likely case for me is that Miguel is lying since Gwen averted her canon event and nothing happened. I absolutely loved this movie but as with almost any multiverse or time travel story, there are just a lot of inconsistencies that drive me crazy
The argument of _Miles Isn't Spidey_ is Awful ONE THING IS DON'T LIKING A CHARACTER & ANOTHER THING IS DENYING AN OBEJTIVE STATENTMENT OF THAT CHARACTER
I'm hoping that the idea of the films is to at the end "There is no Canon, we can and should try and save everyone and if we can't alone we can do it together even if that means changing the multiverse." again that is the feeling I got and I hope I'm right cause although still a cliche it is one that I like, contrary to the one that I hate that is the "Canon" idea presented by Miguel.
I think it's dangerous to just label people as "racist" because they don't accept a different Spiderman. For some, nostalgia is extremely strong. I don't like Jane Foster as Thor. Does that make me misogynistic? I struggle to get around another Joker after the Heath Ledger performance. I haven't seen anyone else as Superman really since Christopher Reeve etc. When you call people racist, it's such a huge huge accusation. It doesn't give that person space to tell you why they dislike something. I've never read a spiderman comic. I grew up watching the animated series etc. I'm used to Peter Parker being Spider Man. I like Miles Morales because the PS5 game has been fun and the movie I've seen was great. If someone else says they don't accept Spiderman as being Miles, my first thought wouldn't be they're racist. Let some people like some things and let others not. Easy.
this movie feels like its knocking on the 4th wall, and discussing the idea of fate in a multiverse. In the same way ever Spiderman has a Gwen Stacey, Superman always has a Lois Lane. Whilst other stories ponder a multiverse where anything can happen, comics have a controlled multiverse where set things (canon events) always happen, or always exist. That is interesting to ponder, but I dont know if its interesting to watch, or to actually know that answer. I guess you could say that Spiderman 2099 has been driven mad by the idea of a multiverse, but I cant help but think that a chat with the TVA or even Deadpool (from a 4th wall POV), would solve alot of his issues.
peter Parker, has always been interesting to me because of his belief in Uncle Ben’s lesson about Power and Responsibility. At his most flawed, He believes that this quote is more than just moral guidance, it’s law. In many ways, spidey is often rewarded by this belief as much as he’s punished. For instance, in Spectacular, he takes solace in the fact that he saved Dr. Connors from his Lizard self and kept his son from losing a father. But what about when he lost his powers in spider-man 2 because he was sacrificing too much of himself? That’s most certainly a punishment for choosing the mask in favor of personal relationships. That’s what I find most compelling about Peter’s Spider-Man. His sense of responsibility is *as much* of a flaw as it is a strength. The true growth of Peter Parker is realizing that Great Responsibility includes yourself. After all, if you can’t take care of yourself, how can you take care of an entire city? I think this flawed perception of great power is what leads a spider-person to become so coldly utilitarian. That’s why they’re willing to go along with Miguel.
My concern ahead of the film was how would they maintain the focus on the central character with so many amusing Spider-Alternates. By using the plot device that hw was never supposed to be Spider-Man they make him unique fulfil that criteria. Marvellous piece of plotting.
A bonus mini-essay discussing the way that some ATSV details don’t always seem to fit perfectly, and what that points to, available for all Patreon supporters to read now: www.patreon.com/posts/endnote-sony-and-84222986?Link&
Also, thanks to Actual Fandom (www.youtube.com/@ActualFandom) for catching me up with some of that recent reactionary Miles Morales nonsense)
I love your videos bro you are my favorite 🤩😊
@@jeremiahkisimba5938 Thanks so much for watching!
So the multiverse and the Web of Life with all the Spider People is comics canon but I’m 90% sure most of the “canon events must happen” especially of the “being spider man (but especially Peter Parker) sucks” variety is because of that one time a Peter Parker killed his universe’s Mephisto, breaking his omnipresence and causing the rest of him to throw a bitch fit and curse all the spiders man, but especially Peter. I somewhat doubt Spiderverse is going to bring the literal devil into this but I might be surprised.
@@PillarofGarbage Uh no he's not lol
Now do Nick Fury Jr. Oh and how about Jane Foster Thor. I'd love to see how you justify her taking his name. THOR is not a mantle, nor a title. It's literally his name. Marvel totally doesn't have a problem with white male characters. That's totally not why they "mantle Swapped" them all. Spider-Man, Thor, Captain America, Iron man, Hulk, Wolverine, Hawkeye. Should I keep going?
honestly i view the whole cosmic determinism thing differently.
it's bad on purpose so in the future they can begin breaking it down and exposing what's so bad about it. that's what i feel this film has been in that regard. establishing a precedent, and breaking it with Miles.
Yeah I think this is pretty likely, maybe I should have made that clearer
Yeah... It stablishes the really good debate... And we live with with Miles.
@@PillarofGarbage I think it's likely that the spidermen in the spider society have alredy had their tragic canon events happen before joining
(The exeption being Gwen)
I think it is also interesting that Miguel is the lider of the Spider Society being himself an "anommalous" take on spiderman
@@joyboy475 I mean there's a lot of things the audience could already figure out before going into any superhero movie. Fans of Miles' comics would have already know his uncle was the Prowler and that he would likely die, just as we knew it was pretty unlikely that the movie would actually end with Miles failing to become Spider-Man and Kingpin destroying the universe.
Sure, all being told, we can be pretty sure Miles, his dad, and most of the Spider-people we care about will live. That doesn't mean we can't enjoy the stakes as presented within the movie itself for what they are though.
@@PillarofGarbage yeah in the video it comes across as if you misunderstood what the movie is trying to say when it is kinda obvious that Miles is right about Canon events being stupid.
Another hint from the writing is Hobie Brown's presence. Brown is built up in multiple ways not only a great Spider Man but also a moral compass. As soon as Hobie leaves in the middle of the movie, you know that the Spider society has also lost moral authority as well.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Hobie Brown was also destined to become the Prowler in some universes.
also hobie brown is another version of the prowler
@@lionwolf7861 Oh damn! I just read up on 616 brown, damn...
I knew i wasn't the only one who saw Miguel's rant about Miles not belonging being an allegory for fandom chuds hatred of Miles being Spider-Man.
Who didn't see that?
You were not the only one. Unfortunately?
, it probably went over the "Peter Parker is Spider-Man" gate-keepers heads.
That makes no sense in context though when they raceswapped Jessica Drew and changed her costume. Also people love the movie Miles. It's an allegory for the people who think spider-man has to suffer to be interesting which is most if not all spidey fans. But there is a point where it becomes meaningless and gratuitous like zeb wells's run. It is a very interesting question and Miles had already earned our hearts and his place among them so we truly don't know where this story will go. It hasn't fully followed the comics at all so yeah its perfect for spidey discourse today. Idk If this makes sense. I'll make a video on it
The directors said that was the intention with Miguel.
@@Ren_Davis0531 source?
Your interpretation is valid, but personally, I interpreted the film as a meta-commentary on how the editorial board at Marvel comics refuses to let Peter Parker's Spider-Man change as a character: He always must be a comically (eh?) unlucky bachelor who everyone hates, even though he almost always does the right thing, because the writing staff refuses to stop stomping him into the dirt.
Miles Morales is the example showing that a Spider-Man story CAN BE TOLD DIFFERENTLY, and that the decision-makers at Marvel Comics should do better.
Great point!
While only having read Saladin Ahmed's Miles comics and none other, what I loved the most on it was his dynamics with his family and friends, how Mile's parents and Ganke knew of his identity and often took part on his adventures. It felt fresh, full of potential and a sweet thing on itself.
Do you have a source that the Marvel board actually does this? If they did, why would they approve this movie?
@qwerty687687 This is my understanding from familiarity with major events in the mainline Spider-Man series.
Every time it looks like Peter and MJ are finally going to tie the knot, or his life is otherwise going to improve, some contrivance disrupts things and restores the status quo of Spider-Man being alone and miserable. I'm not a telepath, but it's not exactly a stretch to infer the editorial motives behind these storytelling choices.
To my knowledge, Marvel doesn't have any say over the stories Sony is or isn't allowed to tell with Spider-Man characters. Sony owns the full movie rights.
For me, it seems the whole "groupthink" mentality plays into this. Cause we do see that Miles isn't the only one who disagrees with these rules Miguel has established and his rebellion does sway several other spidermen to his side.
Also keep in mind, most of the spiders are sardonic, cheeky, and intentional. Maybe the fact that Miles is out stripping them is because they’re all not into the chase.
Most of them seem to be having fun, expecting Miles to play by the rules, and are comically clumsy, even though they are all TENURED SPIDER-PEOPLE. The person who’s frustrated by the chase? Miguel. The person who’s ACTUALLY keeping pace with Miles? Also Miguel.
Miguel has a considerable amount of disadvantages as a Spider-Man, and he doesn’t have the patented spider humor, not to mention he’s trying to wield the Spider Society like a strike force while it essentially works like a college campus.
Peter B. and Gwen are trying to talk to Miles, Ben Reilly and Jess are just following the rules, and Spider-Punk ACTIVELY subverts Miles’ apprehension. It’s probably not far off to think that the other Spiders don’t fall along the spectrum of: ‘I’m not actually gonna catch this kid’ to ‘Sure, Miguel, I’ll chase him’.
The spider-people not catching Miles seems like it has the potential to be a feature, not just a bug.
And remember the Spider-Woman over the go home machine had a chance to stop him and chose not to. Like if they really watched the movie and understood it Miles beating them makes perfect sense.
Also I think that when you're running away from a threat, you have more motive than to capture
"Oh the spider-people won't go easy on a kid... noooo... that's soooooo out of character... THAT'S NOT CANON... *proceeds to cry in entitlement*... "
@@parthasarathipanda4571 The thing is it __is__ out of character. Because at this moment, they are not being Spider-men. It is not the viewers who are entitled, but the Spider-men, who have shrunk away from how they are supposed to act. Also see the original commenter, they're just there to chill lol
Brava
On the subject of the first bit, I think the movie is suggesting by the end that (SPOILERS)
Gwen’s dad stepping down and the abnormality of Miles’ spider bite show that “canon events” aren’t exactly what Miguel is saying they are.
Maybe he’s withholding information, or maybe there’s something he isn’t aware of, but I think that the concept is supposed to be logically flawed, to suggest that it’s not the whole truth.
My theory is that the reality that collapsed did so because Miguel simply was there, not because the canon event was stopped. He caused a contradiction, not because a dead man now seemingly lived, but because he himself wasn't supposed to be there
I definitely think that he isn't aware of it, I think there's a lot he doesn't know and is just scared after what happened to him. When Gwen tried to talk to him at the end, she said "We don't KNOW what will happen-" and he cuts her off and says "Do you really want to find out?"
He's learning just like the rest of them, he's just not willing to risk something this big, which is honestly fair. Like, I don't think he's necessarily in the wrong here. I mean, he could've done things more smartly, but if you truly believed that you had to let someone die to save literally infinite people and worlds, it doesn't take Reed Richards to make that simple of a calculation. Obviously he could've gone about things differently, but really Gwen is the one who caused all the problems to begin
I also think an element of him not understanding Spider-Man is gonna come in. He called Miles a random kid who got bit but that's what all them Spider people are. He don't get that cuz he's a very different spider-man
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 Good point, Miles is just a Teenager... Anyone in his place and his age specially would be scared as Fucc.
I do agree that there’s more to it, but we can’t forget that Mumbattan started to… hole when the captain lived.
I'm really hoping they confront Miguel's theory and that it turns out that the reason the universe Miguel tried to live in collapsed because of him being there, not the canon event nonsense
Good point, That means that the one who can break the canon is the one who really belongs to the universe...
Cuz the one who saved the Mubattan Police Captain...
Was Miles.
No Pavitr.
@@andresanguianozuniga6798 no, I mean his time there was the anomaly. I think what happened to Muhattan was the result of the spot not anything miles did
@@TheLeftistOwl So it was a coincidence?
Thats pretty interesting...
@@andresanguianozuniga6798 yeah. The hole clearly looked like one of Spot's and didn't look anything like what happened when Miguel replaced that version of himself
@@TheLeftistOwl I kind of thought the same thing when I saw it. I'm a little unsure due to the 'vision' thing that the Spot gives Miles. But I think Miguel's got the wrong of the stick canon wise. Since we've seen that anything out of universe causes glitching (in both the first movie and this one) I find it really weird that they blame the non-happening of specific events that assume (among other things) that every universe has a concept of 'police' or a Spider-man that would build those kind of close relationships with a policeman, rather than blaming the Universe-holing technology that they all have strapped to their wrists and frequently use to throw things around dimensions.
Beyond that I think Miguel just has a bit of a flat understanding of 'canon events' surely these events are important because of how they influence Spider-man (Pavitr doesn't learn he has limits because he never faces a no-win scenario, Miguel makes a selfish decision rather than take responsibility for his actions) rather than just due to the exact semantic features of the event. If Miles' Dad dies because he's locked in a prison in another dimension, he's not going to learn his limits and improve as a Spider-man, he's going to learn that none of his so called heroes can be trusted and have the most confusing villain origin to explain ever. (Well probably not that far, but the event isn't going to play the narrative role its supposed to).
I feel like this movie has a meta narrative to go against Spiderman mythos as a whole.
As I remembered, many people were concerned that MCU Peter Parker wasn’t truly Spiderman. He has it easy, he faced no consequences of his own action and he has no Uncle Ben; as in, he didn’t suffer enough to be Spiderman. Only after No Way Home and Aunt May’s death that people finally accepting he is Spiderman.
So in Across the Spiderverse, the lost of a loved one is considered a canon event that cannot be changed, that every Spiderman has to go through; and Miles is challenging that notion. He saved the Police Inspector, which saved Pavitr from suffering yet Pavitr is still a Spiderman; and now he is on his to way to save his dad, challenging the canon event again.
See that doesnt even make sense out of universe because Miles did suffer loss with the death of Uncle Aaron. Was that not enough for people to say he's suffered?
Oh wait, right. Racism.
@@norsehorse84 Peter loses Uncle Ben but he also loses Captain Stacy, Gwen Stacy, etc. Point is, he need to go through more tragedy according to them
It's still suffering and overcoming it. It's simply a different way of doing so. It's not disrupting the canon events, it's simply proving that there's more than one way that they may happen. It is not challenging it, but improving upon it.
The real issue with MCU Spider-Man wasn't that he didn't suffer enough; Holland's Spider-Man has the same issue that Disney's Spider-Man has, it's that they're not working class superheroes. Holland's first two villains are two Stark employees who got screwed over. Batman is rich, Iron Man is rich, Mr Fantastic is rich, Green Arrow is rich... Spider-Man has a second job because his first doesn't cover all the bills.
If Stark gives him the suit, and the tech, and the money, and the training... Like, c'mon, how's he supposed to be his own guy? Arguably No Way Home didn't fix Holland's Spider-Man by killing Aunt May, that was the least interesting thing it did. No Way Home fixed Spider-Man by making him one of us again. Not an ultra-wealthy super Pinkerton sponsored by daddy Stark, but a dude in a shitty apartment fixing his neighbourhood by putting on a silly costume and saving people from danger.
An interesting deconstruction fr. To play with the mytho
The reason why he beats all spider people , imo, is quite easy, he just wanted it more. Most of them were halfheartedly trying to stop him since a part of them knew he's right. That's why we only see Miguel catch up to him because he has no doubts that Miles is wrong. He is so set in his ways that he couldn't even see Miles outsmarting him. Miles's love for his dad was greater than their belief in their dogma.
I agree, they were all goofing around even more than usual
The main reason is it's a movie so the hero has to evade his pursuers no matter what.
Also to be fair, they also don’t know miles. Peter B catches him later in the chase because he knows miles and can sorta predict what he’s gonna do.
Between Miles suffering a "canon event" in Uncle Aaron's death despite his supposed anomaly nature, to Gwens dad being ok, to Miles's very existence as an anomaly not dooming his dimension to doom, I think you were right that the causality argument was deliberately made to be faulty, and that they'll call back to that in the next one
Yeah especially the destiny angle of it all. If was truly up to destiny, that spider would have found a way to bite its "destined" target. But it still bit Miles anyway. It feels like what was told to us is really not what's happening or info is being withheld.
All of the Spider people were bit by random chance. Anybody could have been bit if at the appropriate place at the appropriate time. The Destined Narrative seems to be an after the fact belief of Migel and the rest of the Spider Society. "Who decides that?" Who decides who is destined or fated to be Spiderman? Let alone the shit that follows.
In the conversation on who the best Spider-Man is, I don’t think Toby, Andrew or Tom break the top 3 anymore. That’s how good this movie is.
I was a fanboy of the Toby movies until I saw the sequel to ITSV
@@bfvet117 Same. These animated movies are next level.
Nah, Toby is still the best Spiderman.
@@jeremyusreevu237 how does Toby top this?? Or are you just saying that because nostalgia or because Miles isn't Peter? Stop being ridiculous and let people love this movie
@@bfvet117 When I said that it was mostly an ironic joke due to the memes that Toby gave us. I personally enjoy Toby the best, as the memes are iconic, and I really like his more unique and human portrayal of Peter Parker, but I can admit that Miles is better than him from an objective standpoint. Dude, you need to cool off and have a snickers.
I hope/think that they renamed "Across the spider verse part 2" to "Beyond the spider verse" because apart of the sequel is going to be breaking out of the hold of "canon events" that contain and define the "spider verse" and into a wider multiverse, "beyond the spider verse."
I thought double meaning. Miles, spot, Miguel will break into the fifth dimension. So they literally and figuratively go beyond the spiderverse
I love that interpretation.
Same! As soon as I got out of ATSV I was like "oh wow, the third one's title has a whole new meaning now"
Imagine if by the end of Beyond the Spiderverse we see the "Comics Code Authority" stamp that's at the beggining of both movies disappear
@@matti.8465 Oooh I love that idea
Miles Morales is the best Spider-Man of his own right and character and he's pure unadulterated awesomeness.
One of the major plot points in the movie is that all these other characters keep trying to tell Miles who he is and what his story should be. The greatest moment for me is when Miles upends all of that with one phrase: "Nah. Imma do my own thing!" While the first movie was about whether or not he was Spiderman, this second one seems to be about what kind of Spiderman does he want to be (as compared ot the hundreds of others).
wtf does that even mean its like you said "he's the best spider-man, for miles morales"
@@lkeke35 I kinda fucking hate that they put that line in the trailer; it was so impactful, but not having already heard it would have been great.
Miles is in the comics because the people that write comics. They know need to pander to other races. Spiderman is white. Superman is white. People want to change the made up story. Look into it it's saying straight white man is bad. This is this world now.
Too bad there is nothing original about him.
This movie made me realize that anyone can be Spider-Man it doesn’t have to be only be Peter Parker, Miles Morales deserves to have the spider-man title.
Anyone can wear the mask tagline
That was Stan’s love of the character. The suit shows no skin. Meaning anyone could wear the mask.
And this is why comics and superheroes are at the point of bankruptcy.
@erikuu96 Why? Because the writers dare to create a character that isn't a white male?
@@erikuu96 Marvel went bankrupt years before they started introducing the diversity you lot complain about now. They're actually wealthier now than they were during the era you wish they'd return to.
imagine being so racist to a fictional character that you refuse to enjoy peak cinema
Would you enjoy a white Black Panther? Perhaps a white Luke Cage? Or is that "racist'"?
@@alphaeagle9615 I don't give a shit about black panther or Luke cage, never been a fan. Find a better example
@@alphaeagle9615 also you do know Miles is a separate character from Peter right? We didn't take Peter Parker then made him black, he still exists
@@thenewmase And if there was a white Black Panther the original black Black Panther would still exist. So I ask again, Would you enjoy a white Black Panther? Perhaps a white Luke Cage? Or is that "racist'"? Also, would you be OK with a white actor playing MLK?
@@alphaeagle9615 I already said ai don't care about Black Panther or Luke cage, I won't start watching/reading content about them either way. I also won't watch a movie with a white MLK because a historical movie that plays that loose with history always ends up being trash
Miles Morales is Spider-Man but also he’s his own character. I love how in both Spider-Verse movies (Including Insomniac’s Spider-Man) gives Miles a different personality and energy compared to Peter.
Lol, he has Peter's villains, love interest, humor and love for science...yeah "different"
@@erikuu96Damn, first Paul, now Miles taking MJ? When did that happen?
@@erikuu96 Miles actually doesn't have a love for science, he's a graffiti artist. He only studied science to learn how to make portals to see his friends again so...wrong.
@@erikuu96 Well if he is a Spiderman in a different dimension, he would have similarities to Parker like all the others do. But his core character is different.
If he's his own character why doesn't he have his own mantle? Why doesn't he have his own villains? Why doesn't he have his own powers? Why doesn't he have his own girlfriend? Why is everything he has Peter's sloppy seconds?
You've hit it on the head. When J. Michael Straczynski introduced the idea of Peter being a Spider Totem in the comics because the cool thing for the last 40 years or so is to retread Alan Moore's "The Anatomy Lesson", it added this fate/deterministic element to the Spider-Man story which broke the initial premise of Spider-Man. Becoming a hero was a *choice* Peter made, it was not destiny. I cannot tell you how much i love that there are Spider-Man writers who understand that and are applying that to Miles' story. The proper conclusion to the movie should be the dissolution of the Spider-Society, and by extension, the Spider-Verse itself, but we'll see if Marvel has the guts to allow Sony to do that.
Peter Parker is Spider-Man
Miles Morales is Spider-Man
Miguel O Hara is Spider-Man
Hobie Brown is Spider-Man
Et cetera Et cetera
💯
💯
💯
It’s like Spiderbyte said: “yeah, dude, we all are” (spider-man).
Why is Miles Morales Spider-Man and Perter Spider-Man at the exact same time in the exact same universe while the rest are not?
I feel like Miles and Miguel embody two different pillars of Spider-Man morality.
Miles is basically: You save everyone you can. No matter how hard, no matter the cost, Spider-Man always saves a life if he can.
Miguel is: Spider-Man is about responsibility. Miguel is making himself responsible for maintaining the canon, and therefore the integrity of the multiverse itself. This is responsibility taken to its ultimate extreme, and Miguel is taking it so far he risks becoming ruthless and tyrannical...which is a very interesting spin on the concept of the responsibility of being Spider-Man.
It is truly possible to see the point of both sides, which is what makes this the most delectable kind of conflict you can get in drama. I for one am dying to see the conclusion...
Miguel O'Hara: "All stations, stop Spider-Man!"
Spider-Men variants: *all pointing at each other pose*
I can't believe people still wanna even debate this topic...Yes he IS Spider-Man.
In an ideal situation (that Gwen begins when she forms her "Resistance" group), the Spider-Society would exist not to control the lives of the Multiverse's Spiders, but to support and protect them. The lesson of the parent is to make their children able to navigate and survive the world WITHOUT having to go through the same hardships the parent has. To impart strength without trauma. To grow without unnecessary pain. To reduce the strain on future generations.
It's sad that the existence of Miles has to keep being justified. Especially when I know some in the fandom want Peter to actually grow up and have stories set when he is in college. Miles should be allowed to take up that role as the high-school Spider-Man. And so what if Miles has some of the same villains as Peter? It's no different than Super-Girl, Kid Flash, or any generation of the X-Men.
I think the key line of the whole movie is "We're supposed to be the good guys."
Hey, that thing that bugs you about the spider society? My thought is that is exactly why the next film is Beyond the spider verse. They are making a closed loop of suffering for all spiders because they believe that any deviation results in reality breaking. My theory, and sorry if I’m right about this; is that SPOT is forcing a closed loop of loss upon all spiders to be ‘Their one true nemesis.’ If we think about three act structure, beyond will start in 42 before transitioning back to deal with Mile’s Dad and Spot. But that’s two acts. I think Spot is a much bigger outsider occurrence than even Jaime realized.
The breaks in canon also appear to be SPOT. That hole in Nee Mumbai looks exactly like his larger holes. It was him with Alchemix ripping reality apart. If he now sees outside of time across all reality… then he would very likely be the source of harm to any universe that doesn’t punish Spider-Man.
You’re very likely right!
Ofc he's Spiderman. For the past 15 months he's been the one and only Spiderman.
Best cinematic Spidey at this point, let's be honest.
For me, one of the greatest things that sets Miles apart from the other Spidermen is that his loved ones know he is Spiderman. He just came out and told them who he was. Part of the reason so many of the Spider people have dead relatives is the secret lives they led, secret lives that sometimes got their loved ones un-alived (but ot always). Miles upended that whole dynamic by just telling his parents who he was.
Peter keeping his identity secret always kind of irked me. I understand his reason, but in practice, every other week Aunt May or MJ or Gwen would be in some life-threatening situation regardless, so keeping his identity a secret to protect his loved ones has patently _never_ worked. If anything, it has the opposite result, because none of them ever knew they could turn to Peter for help in those situations (and would probably actively try to keep him out of things to protect him).
For me, the best part of the Tom Holland spidey movies is that MJ, Ned and May all find out pretty early who he really is, which means he can lean on them for support and vice versa. And then the third movie undid all of that by erasing everyone's memories and going back to the same old trope. I really hope this doesn't stick in the next movie, because I was really enjoying the dynamic of Pete, MJ and Ned all working together.
Are you talking about in the comics? I'm not a big comic reader so I don't know but his loved ones in this movie don't know he is Spiderman. He did go to tell his mother but it was the wrong one. The only ones that know in his universe are Ganke (not sure if the spelling is correct) and his uncle just before he died.
After reading this comment, I immediately thought that maybe Gwen's father finding out he is Spiderman is what saved him from dying. But that doesn't really work when you consider how his uncle died in the 1st movie
@@culchiefilms1791 In the game Miles mom & friends know that he's Spider-Man. So in Beyond The Spider-Verse his parents will most likely know as well.
@@TheDelinearfuck that’s actually a great point goddamn it
In the comics, his parents, baby sister, best friend in Ganke, Girlfriend in Starling (Tiana Toomes), The Prowler and multiple people who are his allies know who he is. And it's really cool.
I have a theory that Miguel actually just wants to see all the spider men suffer the same way he has which would unfortunately make him less complex but I think could say something really interesting about how we are not actually shaped by our trauma which is honestly a bit unfortunate trope if you think about it. Like I get it but you don’t have to be traumatized to be good person or even hero
What defines Spider-Man and other Spider heroes is not the tragedies that befalls them, but by how they persevere and keep going and striving to do better. getting double-meta, it breaks canon more for Spider-Man to accept someone is going to die and not try to save them than it does for Spider-Man to do everything he can to save a person, no matter the outcome.
It's always a good day when Pillar of Garbage uploads!😃
Thank you for this! *SOME SPOILERS AHEAD*
I just walked out the movie theater seeing this film, and I’m glad I’m not the only one who saw this connection. It’s NO coincidence. The writers knew *exactly* what they were doing. Hope this doesn’t come off as a shallow reading, but I interpreted this adaptation of Miguel O’Hara as a commentary representing the anti-fandom.
When Miguel was consistently telling Miles that he was not Spider-Man and never should’ve been Spider-Man, I totally flashed back to all the anti-fandom videos and comment sections I’ve had the displeasure of reading. But here we have Miles Morales, standing up and making a name for himself as Spider-Man.
If I may charitable, maybe… yes. There are some points where Miguel (the anti-fans and Comicsgate), truly believe they are fighting for something righteous. Preserving the canon. But somehow, along the way, they stumbled and got lost. This is perfectly evidenced when Gwen scowls at Miguel and says “I thought you were the good guys…” It said a lot when Miguel had to keep repeating to himself, “We are the good guys, we are the good guys, we ARE the good guys…” Hmm… are you sure??? You don’t sound so sure. Lol!
Then later Gwen rounded up her own troop of Spider-Men to defy Miguel and help Miles. Gwen represents the fandom ready to stand up. But again, this is just one guy’s interpretation. 😄 Loved the movie!
Also, special shout-out for noticing the Trans-lighting when Gwen was talking to her father. Heh-heh! No coincidence there either.
This is literally what I've been saying since the film came out it's meta commentary on racist fans hating on Miles and calling him a mistake, an anomaly a race swapped Peter etc
Definitely - the whole "the wokes will destroy everything we care about" mantra of the toxic fanbase has a one to one mapping to the idea that not protecting the canon will literally wipe universes out of existence. They've honestly convinced themselves of that (well, the ones who genuinely do believe it - obviously there's a large subset of cynical grifters who don't care either way but are willing to pretend they do in order to milk those people for views).
Anti-fans and anti-fandom are a BS term made up by grifters who can't stand the idea of people not washing their favorite franchises with mindless praise all the time. Negativity is just as much of a part of fandom as positivity.
@BFVET 117 Imagine thinking that in the year of 2023, we still are faced with a wave of people who are so racist they can't tolerate the idea of a black spiderman. News flash: this isn't the 1950s.
@@jeremyusreevu237 Nah, miserable people who complain and bring constant toxic negativity to fandoms can fuck right off.
Now that is a *real* Multiverse compared to the one in Doctor Strange 2.
@Joy Boy between this and everything everywhere all at once im beginning to think bagels are essential to multiverses
They event had the scene in Doctor Strange 2 with Bruce Campbell's street food cart - the perfect opportunity to sneak in a multiverse bagel, and they botched it.
It's the exact same multiverse though
Brilliant video as always. As a West African female nerd it always feels like me just being born gets me labeled as "woke". It's been so disheartening to see the absolute wave of bigots growing bolder and bolder, and trying to shut them out as they refuse to listen or have good faith discourse exhausts and demoralizes me into thinking it's hopeless.
But then I see your videos that are just articulated so thoroughly to perfection AND with a heaping helping of empathy, it gives me hope again. I'm just a random fan online, but thank you for existing and doing what you do.
If anyone deserves to hold the mantle of spiderman, its miles. Also spider punk, love that man 🖤❤
Hobie my beloved
In the comics, Hobie has actually just been going by spider-man lately and it's been interesting, people keep calling him Spider-Punk and he's been trying to move on from that.
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 why is that exactly? Why not stick to spider punk?
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 from what someone told me India Spider Man met 616 Class Spider Man/Peter Parker and then he thought of himself as a off brand version which is pretty stupid I like Dyamic PS4/5 Peter and Miles have
From out of context, Miles Morales was in the very intense game of "Tag! You're It!" by the Spider-Men variants wanting to greet the newbie and check out what he can do with his spider powers.
We know from Doc Ock's time as Spider-Man that Peter often pulls his punches, even when fighting villains. It's no surprise then that the other Spidey's (aside from Miguel) aren't going all-out to take down someone who they essentially see as a misguided kid.
There's not a single video that isn't immeasurably improved by a "here's The Thing" /Ben Grimm gag 🤣
I just love the movies commentary on anti-fandom. Everyone says MILES isnt supposed to be spider-man. They'll accept anyone else EXCEPT him. They take 4 Green Lanterns, 4 Robins, 2 Flash.... People like Nerdrotic are just too dumb to realize that the real villain of Across the Spider-Verse was him.
There are ten green lanterns active currently. And technically 7 flashes.
There is only ever 1 active robin, there is 1 nightwing, 1 Red Robin, 1 red hood. They have different titles because they are in the same universe
The people with the same title in the same universe is when things get tricky and people use names.
You can’t say green lantern, there is Allen, Hal, guy, John, Kyle, Jessica, Simon, and more. When this happens you say,
Allen Scott or golden age green lantern,
Hal jorden or silver age
Are you a scarecrow, because that argument is a massive strawman.
But yes the people claiming he isn’t Spider-Man are just racist
@@ked49 damian and Tim are both active robins right now
@@Intr0vertical Red Robin and robin, different titles technically like Spider-Man and scarlet spider
Stan Lee himself discussed this point before. He talked about why Spider-Man wears a mask that covers his entire face instead of a cowl like Batman, and his reasoning was that he wanted Spider-Man to be a character that could be anyone. Anyone could be under that mask, and Peter Parker just happened to be the guy by fluke. The entire point of Spider-Man as a concept is that destiny is bull****, and that Peter being bitten was always a cosmic fluke. Responsibility and dealing with the hand you’re dealt have always been the core ethos of Spider-Man stories.
Appreciate this video & your content 🫡✊🏾
Recently found this channel. Been loving your videos, you give a fresh perspective.
The whole movie has subtle arguments against so-called "comic-book" fans in general. The ones who feel they are super fans, by enforcing an arbitrary law of the canon of Spiderman. Each character in the film is a personification of the whole fandom. The proud mentor (Peter), the ones who want to preserve everything to save what they current love (Miguel), the ones who want to branch out and explore relationships (Gwen) and the ones who desire a radical narrative (Hobie). And the best part is that... for all their strengths and weakness's... they help to shape and define new characters into the universe.
Peter will always be the OG... but Miles is the one we've all got eyes on, because we know he's ready to become his own Spiderman.
This movie kicked butt. I don't think there are any live action super movie that hold a candle to this movie.
I've been struggling with the Spider-Verses concept of 'The Canon' since I saw the film and honestly thank you for showing me the perspective I was missing. Love it.
I find it funny that's it is a trolley problem while it also having a fight that takes place in a future train that is essentially a trolly
Spoiler for across the spider-verse
Edit: this was mostly covered in the video.
Miguel is completely wrong
Both universal collapse was not caused by spidermen
Both were caused by collider explosions
Mumbatin was collapsing prior to Miles’s intervention
2099b was collapsing after Miguel arrived but not instantly
42 isn’t destroyed
So that is what “beyond” means. Miguel’s view will be shattered and they move beyond.
I haven't seen anyone explicitly make the link to the collider being the problem. That's such a good point! I mean, the collider potentially destroying their universe is the entire driving plot point of the first movie, so it makes perfect sense. Miguel is making the classic mistake of confusing correlation with causation.
That's the same theory I got. 💯
Miles Morales IS A ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN
Correction THE ULTIMATE
@@ked49 YES
This was one of the best breakdowns of Miles I’ve seen this week, well done.
As someone who works with children every day, this next generation, that is; everyone under 10, their Spiderman is Miles Morales. So that's refreshing
Another excellent video, cheers PoG!
Miles Morales is Spider-Man, and a spectacular one... but his life experiences are a lot harder for me to relate to than Peter's are.
Miles grew up with both parents for most of his life; he has, or had, a seemingly close relationship with extended family beyond his parents; he might not exactly be swimming in friends at school, but he certainly doesn't seem to feel or act like he's really alone or has trouble fitting in, either. And when everything around him goes as wrong as it possibly can, from what I can see Miles usually has a reliably available support network to help him bounce back and set things right.
Those aren't the kind of circumstances I can really understand or relate to, and THAT is what makes it harder for me to connect with Miles than with Peter "was a lonely nerd in high school who works for an overbearing jerk and struggles to earn enough money to pay for his one ailing disabled/retired family member" Parker.
Miles Morales *is* Spider-Man, and an amazing one... he's just not exactly my favorite. 😅
...also, Miles already lost his uncle in the first Spider-Verse movie, so the next "destined target" being his dad and so quickly... seems a little weird?
This is an interesting perspective, as it is the opposite for me. I couldn't relate to Peter Parker in any other iterations so far. But I can relate to Miles, his life seems more ordinary, more "normal". I have to add that another layer is that Im latina and our families tend to be very close. I think it is super refreshing that Miles can be a normal kid, that gets along with people, that has a functional family, and still decides to be a hero. He didn't have to, he wasn't lonely or rejected, but he still chose that path after the spider bit him!
@@PamelaRubel yup, Miles' life being "normal/ordinary" is the TLDR for why I find it so hard to relate to and get invested in him 😄. I can still appreciate him somewhat as a change of pace, but it's hard to really go beyond that. Still, though, part of the point behind Spider-Man is that he (and sometimes she, and probably at least once somewhere out there they) is a hero for everyone. So I think it's ultimately a good thing to have different Spider-strokes for different folks.
It’s up to you. But , recently and because i read his comics as the ultimate and the new series ( the new comics are way better even better )right now. I relate to him with the weight of the legacy as a hero and the legacy of the family.
Peter as spider-man only had Aunt May which is the reason why he put himself in danger. Peter became a hero because of his selfishness. Miles powers brought a solution to prove to the world that he can be useful. Miles was alone and scared with powers he could barely control but he managed to be1 open with his relatives how to use them . He always values honor and respect wearing the mask. Miles is somebody who always needed to get out of his comfort zone through his adventures. His personnality is completely different, he do what he can and doesn't care ppl think. His own weakness AND STRENGHT are his family.
What i love is that the character know who he is.
if anyone disagrees that Miles is Spider-Man then they go against the very essence of Spider-Man
I am looking forward to a white Black Panther. Everybody can be Black Panther
@@StylePoints14 i see what you're trying to say but no, you have to be Wakandan and like a royal person i think so that doesn't translate :P also that character represents something. you cannot make that change, it would not work. Spider-man is just a guy. he's just a guy. and there's no race attached to him. he can be anyone. if you have a problem, you can just let it go. you can just not consume the content, okay? i promise it's okay to just step back and not say anything. just because you don't like something, doesn't make it wrong. i know you didn't ask and i am typing a lot, sorry but i like Miles Morales. and Spider-Man. ever since my childhood. and so it doesn't matter who he is. as there are many incarnations and variations. i enjoy many different types. so please take your weird takes somewhere else. or rather, nowhere else. i think that's some "goodadvice". so thank you, have a nice evening and i hope one day you can enjoy Into the Spider-Verse and it's sequels :3 sorry it was so long
@@skinnyyoungjiggy4471 No because this is more than just fiction. My kind is being erased in real life and fiction. So if there is no rules anymore, then yes Black Panther can be anyone. Anything can be made up in fiction. So a white royal Black Panther is perfectly reasonable, when you can just change anything in these story like you see fit. Don't tell me where to go with my takes. How about you take your weirdness some place else. You commented on another mans video. This is public space.
The dumbest thing is not to say anything and you don't get to tell us what to say anymore. And it is terrible advice. It is just because you don't like hearing the truth. I want a white Wakanda.
Lastly. You yourself threw out challenging and provocative statement, and now you cant handle being fired back upon...
Anybody that thinks you can just swap original Spiderman or heroes in general go against the essence of good storytelling.... How about that
@@StylePoints14 we already had a white pan for and it kinda didn’t work and it was in a comic series that pretty much flopped years ago and then he called himself white tiger for some reason maybe if you learn that if you actually read comics but you clearly don’t
@@isaiahkayode6526 Doesn't change the clearly obvious agenda of black washing. It pretty much only goes one way, despite their being one short instance the other way.
I feel like the hypocrisy of the Spider Society is kinda the point? They think they know this ultimate, immutable truth, they've lost their way, and Miles is going to prove them wrong.
Haven’t been here in a while but congrats on 73k subs! 🎉
Thanks!
I love Mile's solution to the trolley problem: "He wouldn't choose he would jump in front of the trolly and stop it"
I think they should keep calling Miles just "Spider-Man" but they should start calling his comics "Ultimate Spider-Man" because
A. It's a defunct title that's not being used anymore so why not?
B. He is the only Spider-Man from the Ultimate Universe left so like it makes sense, and
C. I really don't like the current titling convention of "Miles Morales: Spider-Man," like we don't call Peter's run "Peter Parker: Spider-Man" (well there was that series from the 80s called "Peter Parker, the spectacular spider-man" but you know what I mean), we call it "Amazing Spider-Man," I see no reason to not call Miles's run "Ultimate Spider-Man" so that we can distinguish them without just saying "Miles Morales spider-man and Peter Parker Spider-Man," we just say "amazing" and "ultimate"
That is a great idea. Because things get complicated within one universe
There are at least ten green lanterns active on earth at any given time. And four headline flashes
@@ked49 his first appearance was Ultimate Spider-Man. Don’t know why they changed it. Maybe people got confused
Ok so this didn't age amazingly well because I didn't expect Ultimate Invasion to lead into a full relaunch, and once I realized it would, I assumed Miles would return to the UU for USM, so I guess now there's more reason not to. I still think changing the title would be nice, maybe to Spectacular Spider-Man (okay admittedly that would be confusing with Weisman's upcoming Spectacular Spider-Men but still), or for a more confusing title they could call his books Spider-Man Ultimate, or hell just take prefixless away from dan slott and give miles the prefixless Spider-Man series (or switch the main Peter Parker book over to prefixless and give miles ASM or something)
I'm 99.9% sure that Miguel's fear and trauma is what's making him believe that all universes must have the exact same events play out for every spider-man. Perhaps Miles will be the first to show that your destiny isn't written in stone. If you don't remember that Gwen's father was SUPPOSED to die according to "canon events", but he ended up living. That shows that Miguel's whole idea isn't what he thought it was.
He's not just Spider-Man, he's my Spider-Man
I found it insanely frustrating that all efforts were diverted to catching Miles rather than Spot
Speaking of ATSV, I would love hear your thoughts on the spot and how they handled him. Him and his progression throughout the film was one of my favorite aspects of said film
I remember the directors did an interview soon after the film was released where they confirmed that they based the film's main conflict around the public reaction to Miles.
Honestly my issue with Miles was always how he was written. As a black kid, a black Spider-Man should've been great, but he was written as just a black Peter. These movies have made me actually appreciate Miles as his own character. He doesn't get hung up over Peter, he has a unique artistic interest.
I don't think it's always an issue of race, especially from the perspective of a black fan. I absolutely loved Jace Fox becoming Batman because he had his own story, personality, and best of all had no real ties to the original. He was allowed to be his own man, and I like this version of Miles for finally being allowed to do the same.
He doesn't have the same artistic interests that he does in the movies, but the ultimate spider-man show also developed his personality more than the comics had, and it also was the first time he was adapted, if that would also interest you
Good stuff man!
Thank you!
@@PillarofGarbage No PoG, thank you!
I think The reason people say he isn't spider man is because he's a version of the character, not the og. Has nothing to do with hating him as a character. Personally if dick Grayson took the mantel of batman I couldn't care less, he isn't batman Bruce Wayne always will be.
Miles is Spiderman, but when he's with other Spidermen like in the insomniac games or the cartoons, I just call him miles because its easier. Just like in the movie when you say Spiderman everyone is confused as to who you're talking to.
Totally agree, both are Spider-Man. Like before this even became an argument I would of just said “oh yeah spiderman (miles morales)….. ect” because its just confusing. Peter Parker is Spiderman is the cultural consciousness. But it doesn’t mean Miles isn’t spider-man. And personally I prefer stories where his is the one and only. Like in the ultimate universe, I like the idea of him carrying a legacy that he’s not sure he could live up to, but finding his own way. Both are spider-man.
OK, thats in the Multiverse...
And out of that?
Cuz this debate TRASCENDS the Fictional thing.
Out of the Fiction, we call Miguel Spider-Man *2099*
I liked when Miles was called *Ultimate* Spider-Man.
That at least gave him some... Identity.
@@mizore7054 More or less... There are characters who give us this debate too...
Like Flash or Green Lantern.
Maybe thats why i hate Miles being in the same universe as Peter...
Its like Having Barry and Wally and Jay In the same universe and calling them all The Flash.
Reason why at least i like more SpiderVerse, at least there we can say "Miles is Spider-Man in his universe".
And then here comes Marvel... Obsessed with having Miles and Peter together to say "See?? He is Spider-Man too!! BOTH ARE!!"
@Andres Anguiano Zuñiga I mean yeah Jay, Barry and Wally are all the flash and are all alive in 1 universe.
@@andresanguianozuniga6798 that happens with The Flash all the time. People get over it.
I love how you destroyed this anti fandom continue doing god work bro
Anti-Fandom is a buzzword.
@@youtubestayatyourrootsforfsake Here is what "Woke" means: performative diversity and inclusivity bias. People and corporations participating in actions that seem inclusive on the surface, but in actuality indicate a hollow pursuit at validation from others or is actually prejudice towards a race/sexuality/gender that is more in the majority because "They're in the majority, that means they're ok to bully". It is true that we shouldn't use the word "woke", but that's because, like you said, the word has become so transmogrified and abstract that we all have different ideas of what it should be. But the ideas that woke represent still permeate in our society and we should comment and critique them. Meanwhile "Anti-Fandom" never had an actual meaning besides "Wah! These people are saying negative things about a movie/tv show/book! That's not good! They should just be blindingly positive all the time!" It's a made up word used as an excuse to bully people who have disagreeing opinions and shill for a major company.
(Drops mic)
@@jeremyusreevu237 theres no way you actually wrote "(drops mic)" at the end of that comment like it was some big truth bomb and not demonstrating you legitimately don't understand people's criticism of Anti-Fandom. lmao.
@@TSDTalks22 Look, dude. You're a cool channel, so I'm not trying to hate on you, but I understand people's "criticism" of Anti-Fandom. Like I said, Anti-Fandom is a nonexistent buzzword, that these people made up to describe individuals like Critical Drinker, Eric July, and Stitch and Adam, reasonable individuals with solid takes, that dare to disrupt the corporate status quo, and actually criticize corporate pandering and white knighting of minority actors and characters, or describe people who just have negative feelings towards any fandom related thing. I am not saying that there aren't members of fandoms that are toxically negative dickwads. Obviously there are. But it's clear that most of the individuals given this "Anti-Fan" label are just people who don't like a specific aspect of the media that they're a fan of. Don't like how The Last Jedi "subverted your expectations" by doing incredibly stupid, out of pocket things that make no sense for a Star Wars movie to do? You're an Anti-Fan! Criticizing Moses Ingram for saying that a franchise with a ton of black characters wasn't diverse enough before the Obi Wan show? You're an Anti-Fan! The people who use phrases like "Anti-Fan" and "Anti-Fandom" pretend that they're criticizing the toxic and negative aspects of fandom, when really they just hate the idea of fans criticizing anything related to their property, especially when it has something to do with tokenized, faux diverse representation. They're essentially the real life version of this: ua-cam.com/video/PwRnATII5dI/v-deo.html. And before you say "Oh, well that's not true, because they've disagreed with people respectfully before", uh no. That is 100% an "I can't be racist, my best friend is black" defense, because they only bring up these people they supposedly "disagree" with, when it's convenient for them to cover up their close minded asses, and the things they "disagree" with are often minor things that don't actually matter. The bottom line is that "Anti-Fandom" is a stupid buzzword made up by grifters in order to discourage non-corporate-approved thinking, and criticism of the precious brand and the precious corporate pandering, and the sooner that word dies out, the better we will be as a society. So yeah, I understand people's criticism of Anti-Fandom.
(Drops mic again)
Fav UA-camr covering my fav movie(s)?!! I'm swooning.
About the fixing of the dimensional rift in Mumbattan, Miguel says that they are trying to fix it, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. So their point still stands, they just don't want to risk it.
My theory is, perhaps, the dimensional rifts occur if someone from another universe is changing the canon events. If Pavitra himself had somehow saved both Captain Singh and Gayatri then nothing bad would happen. Maybe.
Miles Morales is Spider-Man and this movie gave me everything ever wanted especially seeing my favorite character mayday parker spider-girl finally adapted in animation makes me so happy that i can't wait to see part 2 it's going to be really awesome and tons of fun.
Miles Morales is Spider-Man. Peter Parker is Spider-man.
Another great video.
bro you can't just expose his secret identity like that
This movie is soo good. That's all that needs to be said. Now I did have an issue with the most of the Spiders agreeing with Miguel because they wouldn't stand for this. It hurt when the Spectacular Spiderman even agreed but I get the why. All the characters were awesome. Thanks for the review Pillar.
Just leaving a comment for the UA-cam algorithm even though I have nothing to add.
if Miguel says that Miles is an anomaly, that he is not supposed to be Spider-Man, doesn't that mean that the 'canon' wouldn't apply to him? because he supposedly IS NOT Spider-Man (according to Miguel O'Hara)
I am pretty excited for another movie. I felt like Miles and Miguel both got done really well. Also loved seeing LEGO and Da Spidah-Git and Bagman and everything. But honestly... Miles being the real Spiderman and doing all the actual Spiderman things was great, and overcoming the spider society was both executed really well but also very on this message.
I was wondering the exact same thing--if all these Spider-Men are hanging out (get it?!) at HQ, what's going on in their universe without them???
I am also thinking the determinism is made to be seen as bad. Like Part 2 is going to explore the problem with that view of the multiverse (and at the end, Gwen is seeing that this idea of canon event seems bullshit)
I feel like the the spiderverse is kind of like a metaphor for like well intentioned but overly dogmatic queer spaces, or progressive spaces in general. If there's someone who deviates from the prescribed norms of what spiderman (or a gay person, trans person, etc.) is seen by that group to be, they're persecuted for it and excluded from the group. But all this seems to be like a projection of the shared trauma. Like, I went through the death of my family, you do too. Or, I went through ostracization and marginalization because of my identity, so it's unfair that you don't. I doubt this was the full intention of the movie, but it does seem to speak to that feeling at least, the feeling of being queer "the wrong way". Anyway, great video as always :)
I’ve never understood the hate for Miles. Miguel O’Hara is also a mixed heritage character, and nobody ever claimed that he wasn’t Spider-Man when he debuted. Everyone was ecstatic when he showed at the end of Across…
So what’s the difference within the culture, where Miguel is considered valid, and yet, Miles isn’t? Why is one cool and the other seen as lame, despite the latter having tons more appearances in outside media?
It is just people referred to
miles as the ultimate spiderman
Miguel as spiderman 2099
It is just when they have the same title you diffrienciate by universe or by name. And the most popular character is automatically the one where people don’t specify
When things get into single universes things change. You say barry Allen, John Stewart, Jay Garrick, Hal Jordan after their title because they are in the same universe and you have to specify.
And some people just hate things that are different. and they haven’t read the 2099 books
I think the reason nobody claimed that Miguel wasn't Spider-Man is because there wasn't a need to. By most he's considered Spider-man 2099 and established to be an alternative version of spidey whereas with Miles we just have to go with Spider-man while sharing that title with Peter who is more established and synonymous with that name. the race thing could be because Miguel can be seen as white passing plus the first intro of Miles had this air of him being the "brand new diverse Spidey for a new generation". Not to sound like one of those "anti sjw" people but the main reason why Miles was created was because of his race, not to say that he has no other purpose besides that.
I never hated Miles, though before spider verse he felt like he was just there to be there, but I have a feeling he isn't going to be a character who stands on his own, at least in other media that isn't the comics. Miguel can stand on his own but that's because we've accepted that he's an alternate version whereas with Miles many want him to either be apart of peter's world, be like Nightwing to peter's batman, or take over the mantle for him.
probably because miguel was introduced and first written by stan lee and because he came out a time where "deep in the future, another hero rises to carry on the mantle" was a popular conceit (batman beyond came out at this time as well). it's pedantic but it's white nerdbros, pedantic is what they do.
@golden age he doesn't stand on his own. take Peter's version. he had almost all of his iconic villains show up in his initial days as Spider-Man and had so many great stories throughout the years.
with miles, it's different. he has always been "black spiderman" because other than that he didn't have much going on. his parents and ganke are his only major characters. rogue's gallery is non existant(even prowler sucks in the comics) . spider verse and the Games developed him even so he's heavily dependant on peter. his love interest is gwen, his villians are Peter's villains.
I saw a lot of parallels between this movie and Peter's role in (comic) civil war. Working with a technologically superior older character who sounds like he's doing the right thing and then trying to escape outnumbered and outgunned in order to follow his gut and his conscience. That storyline kind of cemented what it means to be spiderman for me and miles is every bit living up to that
Also an important aspect of the perspective angle: To every other Spider-man, their canon events already happened to get them there, and there is no confirmed time travel in the film, so they can accept that things already happened. Meanwhile, Miles got a sight from the future from The Spot that was later confirmed by Miguel, but essentially, his event hasn't happened yet. So the decision he makes is the one that any Spider-man would make: I'll try to save everyone. That's why the time of the decision matters between the examples, between "already happened" and "still hasn't happened but it will".
Spider Man has turned from a single character to an overhyped brand. Positively shocking
Great video! And I agree. Miles Morales IS Spider-Man. Looking on it more, I actually likened his journey a lot to another character I love (but is also a really controversial example): Rey. I absolutely loved her journey across the sequels and found her journey of self-determination to be something akin to Miles’s. For both of them, they don’t let their circumstances or others hardline define who they are; they both gain confidence in themselves and strive to be heroes in their own ways.
I also love how meta the movie is about Miles “defying canon.” It’s like a parallel to or fitting allegory for Star Wars and how we’re seeing new stories or characters push the boundaries of what’s possible, and seeing the community melt down over it.
Not gonna lie, when you said “you know what else is inconvenient and risky”, I expected you to go into a sponsor segment and say “using the internet without a VPN”
not this time :D
I mean, I've seen worse sponsorship transitions.
@@PillarofGarbage "HELLO, I'M SPONS!" 🪁
The weird thing is that the Insomanic Spiderman is there, whose universe also has a Miles Morales.
A new cannon event has started. The protégé.
"You know what else is risky?" I had my finger hovering over fastforward in case the next words were "Browsing without a VPN." I have no time for sponsors.
Not even from Spons?
@@jeremyusreevu237 What even is that? But no. Like, one channel in particular will upload a 26 minute video, but have a 3 minute sponsor for things that are US exclusive.
@@TheDanishGuyReviews Spons is a character Caddicarus plays in order to advertise stuff.
@@jeremyusreevu237 Oh, okay! No, not even him. Nor Mikey's Gruntyboi, either. I gave Daveo from Boyinaband a pass, and Brutalmoose's sponsor characters as well. Those are the only ones l feel compelled to watch every time. "Where did you get 20 Dollars?" "Found it on your floor." "I live in the UK!! Why would my dropped money be dollars?!"
@@TheDanishGuyReviews Fair. Spons is pretty funny though.
I really hate the "It's always been done this way" argument in every situation. Nothing EVER stays the same, and no outcome is guaranteed. No matter what you do because we can not see into the future. No one has to be or do what someone else thinks they should. Besiders trying something new may garner better results. Miles being considered an anomaly means he can do whatever he wants. If he wasn't meant to be Spider-Man in the first place, why play by the rules that govern the stories of the others?
I think theres something to be said about mob mentality on the part of the spider society. (Spoilers)
People were sounding off online about different individual spider people who are going along with miguel's plan that canonically probably wouln't (the most common example being Spectacular Spider-Man, though really it could apply to pretty much anyone including the main characters like Gwen and Peter B.) And the thing is, I think they're right, and that that's part of the point.
Miguel started the society small, going one by one to find spider-people, and if the small group started with this general philosophy near the beginning, then it makes sense that as the group grew larger, new individuals were going along with the crowd of their peers, so to speak. Everyone might have doubts, but they also think that everyone else doesn't have doubts, so they justify it to themselves. A lot of them have already lost people in their "canon events", so it makes sense that miles, who hasn't had his canon event happen yet, would be the only one to rebel (besides hobie of course, but hobie was always going to be anti establishment like the badass he is).
So yeah. I think that the spider society being wrong and slightly out of character is sort of the point in of itself. I can't wait for part 2 to see how they handle this.
The problem with Miles Morales is his books are not well written and have been cancelled multiple times.
The things about what happened in Mumbatten is firstly if Miguel knew that it was going to happen, why did he send Gwen after The Spot in the 1st place and why was he angry with her when she failed? If she caught him wouldn't that have prevented that canon event anyway?
But also I know the movie wants to make is believe that the black hole was caused by the canon event being prevented, but I personally believe that's not the case. It just seems more like an accident caused by the Spot.
There are a lot of inconsistencies in the whole canon event and anomaly story. Since its just part one of a two part movie I can't tell if they are just plotholes or if they are going to inform how the story ends. I hope its the latter but I can't yet figure out how they could play into the story. The most likely case for me is that Miguel is lying since Gwen averted her canon event and nothing happened.
I absolutely loved this movie but as with almost any multiverse or time travel story, there are just a lot of inconsistencies that drive me crazy
The argument of _Miles Isn't Spidey_ is Awful
ONE THING IS DON'T LIKING A CHARACTER & ANOTHER THING IS DENYING AN OBEJTIVE STATENTMENT OF THAT CHARACTER
3:21 Looks at Spider Island arc.
I'm hoping that the idea of the films is to at the end "There is no Canon, we can and should try and save everyone and if we can't alone we can do it together even if that means changing the multiverse." again that is the feeling I got and I hope I'm right cause although still a cliche it is one that I like, contrary to the one that I hate that is the "Canon" idea presented by Miguel.
I think it's dangerous to just label people as "racist" because they don't accept a different Spiderman. For some, nostalgia is extremely strong.
I don't like Jane Foster as Thor. Does that make me misogynistic? I struggle to get around another Joker after the Heath Ledger performance. I haven't seen anyone else as Superman really since Christopher Reeve etc.
When you call people racist, it's such a huge huge accusation. It doesn't give that person space to tell you why they dislike something. I've never read a spiderman comic. I grew up watching the animated series etc. I'm used to Peter Parker being Spider Man. I like Miles Morales because the PS5 game has been fun and the movie I've seen was great. If someone else says they don't accept Spiderman as being Miles, my first thought wouldn't be they're racist.
Let some people like some things and let others not. Easy.
this movie feels like its knocking on the 4th wall, and discussing the idea of fate in a multiverse. In the same way ever Spiderman has a Gwen Stacey, Superman always has a Lois Lane.
Whilst other stories ponder a multiverse where anything can happen, comics have a controlled multiverse where set things (canon events) always happen, or always exist. That is interesting to ponder, but I dont know if its interesting to watch, or to actually know that answer.
I guess you could say that Spiderman 2099 has been driven mad by the idea of a multiverse, but I cant help but think that a chat with the TVA or even Deadpool (from a 4th wall POV), would solve alot of his issues.
peter Parker, has always been interesting to me because of his belief in Uncle Ben’s lesson about Power and Responsibility. At his most flawed, He believes that this quote is more than just moral guidance, it’s law.
In many ways, spidey is often rewarded by this belief as much as he’s punished. For instance, in Spectacular, he takes solace in the fact that he saved Dr. Connors from his Lizard self and kept his son from losing a father.
But what about when he lost his powers in spider-man 2 because he was sacrificing too much of himself? That’s most certainly a punishment for choosing the mask in favor of personal relationships.
That’s what I find most compelling about Peter’s Spider-Man. His sense of responsibility is *as much* of a flaw as it is a strength. The true growth of Peter Parker is realizing that Great Responsibility includes yourself. After all, if you can’t take care of yourself, how can you take care of an entire city?
I think this flawed perception of great power is what leads a spider-person to become so coldly utilitarian. That’s why they’re willing to go along with Miguel.
My concern ahead of the film was how would they maintain the focus on the central character with so many amusing Spider-Alternates. By using the plot device that hw was never supposed to be Spider-Man they make him unique fulfil that criteria. Marvellous piece of plotting.