I feel for the families. The passengers/crew didn't know what was happening, for them was like a normal flight, they most probably was warned by the crew that it was normal turbulence since they were passing through a storm. It was a lights on lights off situation.
@@hugopfeffer4175 I'm sure they would of felt it rocking about and up and down prob didnt know they were gunna crash cause they were in an Airbus. Least that's one mercy they didnt realise
I know. Flight 447 never had to go down into the Atlantic at all but what still gets me to this day is that the pilot kept on pulling up even though he knew he was stalling. They even knew they were losing speed like crazy. Even I know to push the nose of the plane down whenever I'm flying with flightsim. I know it's two different things but you need to ask yourself this. Aren't these basic things pilots learn? Why would you keep pulling up when all your doing is making the plane fall???
@@PInk77W1 isnt it common training to know a stall recovery? the second i hear that stall alarm, i'm making sure it's not a false, and if it's true, pushing that nose down for the recovery of air speed, and to prevent falling like a brick.
@@ThatAviationGamer I’m not a pilot But I would guess it is common training. I think a lot of training is not realistic. You watch a video, take a test and You’re now trained. I hope I’m wrong But he slipped thru Somehow. I asked a 747 pilot shoot that case once. He got real upset and said “Some of the new pilots know how to pass a test but no clue how to fly the plane”
✈️To make this story even WORSE, Pilot Dubois was married yet having an affair with a French off duty flight attendant named Veronique Gaignard, and they were staying together in Rio de Janeiro at Sofitel on Copacabana for a weekend partying and visiting friends, even taking a helicopter ride over the city's bay before this flight. They were on their way back home to Paris, and she was on this flight with Dubois. When he left the cockpit for his "nap", he was likely getting attention from her which is why it took him so long to respond to the call from Robert and Bonin in the cockpit. He had complained just before the flight saying he had only gotten an hour of sleep the night before and "it wasn't enough."....🤔 Another fun fact....Pierre Bonin's wife Isabelle was on this flight with him, she was a French physics teacher at their local high school.✈️😢 Had he (F/O Bonin) just LEFT the controls alone, and kept the auto-pilot ON, the pitot tubes would have worked properly again in about 1 MINUTE and the plane would have NEVER crashed. They hit the water belly first going about 150 mph with a slight nose up pitch.😢💔 ✈️🙏~~R.I.P AIR FRANCE FLIGHT 447~~🙏✈️
Auto-pilot turned off because of the faulty data from pitot tubes. So he couldn't "keep in on", but if he knew what happened with tubes freezing, he could've turned the auto-pilot on after the ice was cleaned.
When I was a kid they used to sell those balsa wood toy airplanes with a little counterweight that was put on the front when put together. I think as young as ten I realized that if you pitched the plane straight up or at a steep angle it fell to the ground, if you threw it straight and level it flew, if it went into a nose down position it picked up speed. These pilots had years of training and flying hours and they couldn't figure out what they were doing wrong? Wow...makes me really scared to fly!
The aerodynamics are the same. The point is that clearly Bonin did not trust himself and had absolutely zero self awareness. He said “I’ve got the plane” then when the other FO told him he was climbing he stated “I am?” right after he said he had the plane. He didn’t even know how he was controlling it at first. And clearly he from the second that the auto pilot turned off he panicked.
Watch the BEA(french NTSB)reproduction of how bonnin was yanking the stick all over the place,it is just outrageous that this guy could have been in a A330 cockpit,his inputs on the stick were just savage and incomprehensible.
i just saw all those videos and voice recording now. For me the most incredible is how the media never treated this case as incompetence/murder case. Before the black box was all about the Pitot and after they just went "silent" .....
I hope all may rest in peace. All, that means Bonin too. Let,s prove we are not savages by acting a little human. The man suffered the same as the rest on board. Rest in peace, Bonin and everyone else on board.
Not a very accurate simulation. First of all, the autopilot shut off because the pitot tubes became blocked with ice and the airspeed indicators stopped working. The autopilot can't function if it doesn't know how fast the plane is going. This also prevented the stall-prevention system in the control stick from working, making the aircraft behave more responsively than usual. The pilot first started to roll the aircraft back and forth, left and right, not used to the alternate control law. After he finally steadied the aircraft, he THEN started to pitch up. You make no mention of the rolling, or the alternate control scheme, or the fact that they have no airspeed indicator.
Not even the flight level is correct, they never flew that high. Just have a look at the official BEA report, it’s available online: www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp090601.en/pdf/f-cp090601.en.pdf
Takes a lot of bad things to happen in a row to create an air crash. That is what happened here. Storm, bad timing for the Captain to take a break, bad protocol when the Captain left the cabin in not putting one of the remaining pilots in control, pitot tube blockage, delay in the Captain returning after being called, and of course pilot error.
Absolutely... I do place some blame onto that captain Dubois . He knew before his break that a bad thunderstorm was ahead. He should have stayed in that cockpit and dealt with it himself until that threat had passed.... and the thing they should have done is as much as possible go around and avoid that thunderstorm and storm clouds.. do not fly straight into it attempting to fly through it. Can't fly over or under it. It was moving west to east so go West (left) to try to get behind it ... Three major things went wrong to cause this accident. It's never only one reason. 1) the thunderstorm Bad judgment by the captain to fly into it and to leave the cockpit at that exact moment. And no discussion about flying around it? Makes no sense. 2) the pitot tubes icing up causing incorect air speed readings 3) major pilot error by the third officer ( least experienced pilot)... pulling back on the nose in a stall...putting it into the stall to begin with h and then keeping it there un That is just basic flying 101... how to recover from a stall and know that you are in a stall and do not ignore the stall alarms..... Do I have always blamed Bonin for this accident but he is not 100% at fault. I do place some blame on Captain Dubois. 2nd officer Robert seems to be the only one who did not do anything wrong. In face he was trying to do the right thing.. push the nose down in a stall !
Yes, I think what Bonin was doing (pulling back on the stick in a stall) was so stupid and unbelievable that neither Robert and eventually Dubois ever thought that Bonin was actually doing that. Due to the design deficiency of Airbus aircraft there was no indication to the other crew members of what the joysticks are doing.
RIP!!!! this flight never goes out of my mind! I d like to be in contact to any family to try some words of comfort , but we know it is impossible! Mr Marinho was always on some reports on TV, he lost his son ( I am so sorry mr Marinho, ,,, hope meet u one day to give best regards! !!)
The airplane was in good condition, but the pilots panicked in a storm at night in a radio dead zone. Pilot Bonin pitched the nose up during a stall when obviously he knew better -- that was pure panic.
It's unbelievable that the first officers couldn't understand until the last moment what was happening. Obviously you have the lack of training to add to this terrible situation, and the failure in the pitot tubes, and all the faulty readings that the plane were giving them... but still... People expect pilots to try and think about possibilities and not stick to only one. Such a terrible chain of events...
Actually it's a shame because the captain trusted the rookie to know how to get out of the storm. Rookie ended up stalling the plane due to his thinking that going up in altitude will get them out of the storm. Sigh. So sad.
kimmybbbyeah That's not really true. The only instrument that wasn't working was the air speed indicator. The instruments clearly showed he was climbing -- which is what he should expect when he pulls back on the stick the whole time.
the captain should have taken controls....as a captain I would remove the PIC rapidly and make him seat on the right seat (to have 2 experience pilots). Nevertheless, a captain who need to focus on a problem shoudl leave the controls to the copilot...(as the copilot can fly a plane as well as the captain). But in this case it was too dangerous...
No michael. When he initially pulled back on the joystick he did go up in altitude about 3,000 feet then lost airspeed on the wings and started to drop straight down because he kept pulling up on the stick! He stalled the plane. He never should have gone up. And if he thought he could go above the thunderstorm , I read that storms can be as high as 50,000 feet. You can't go over them only around. Also the air is so thin at 36,000 feet that you can't gain altitude easily even with full thrust on the engines... which he did not do by the way. He just pulled the stick up. Put the plane into a stall and kept pulling it up and stalling it until it hit the ocean. So incredible to think the plane was not flying at all the last 3-4 minutes. It was just dropping straight down like a manhole cover....
The altimeter was working and clearly showed the correct altitude. It was descending rapidly . And of course you can feel an ascent and a descent at night. But a descent with the nose up is admittedly harder to detect at first. The nose was up and there was violent shuddering so it would be confusing for the passengers to know for sure that they were descending rapidly toward the ocean.:.. my point is they didn't know they were going to hit the ocean and die but they surely felt strong strong turbulence on the way down.....they knew something was "wrong"... that this was an emergency situation
One of the most advanced aircraft ever built,but sheer ineptitude led to unbelievable decision making,even the planes computers knew it was being flown wrong . RIP
Thanks for the comment. Looking back at it as it was also made 10 years ago, there are quite a few things that I did miss. Given the chance to make a new one today, I would definitely try and get it up to par as much as possible. It wasn't up until a few weeks ago that I watched the actual simulation itself and saw how the plane basically did a whole 180 degree turn and essentially facing Brazil at the time of the crash.
It seems like that would be likely but with the incorrect speeds and indicators that they were receiving from their instruments, that more than likely added to the confusion. Not to mention, it's pitch black outside with no horizon to be able to adhere to.
This was also an unusual aircraft in that it didn't have linked control yokes. Instead, each pilot had a small joystick on their side (left side for pilot and right side for copilot). On most aircraft, the control yokes are linked - when one pilot makes an input like turning or pushing back on the yoke, the other copilot's yoke moves too. On Airbus airliners, they are unlinked digital joysticks. They are also positioned in a way that the pilot can't actually see the copilots joystick, as it is on the copilot's right side. The entire time, the pilot had no idea the copilot was pulling back on the stick - he even tried to rectify the situation by pushing forward on his own stick, but because he didn't know what the copilot was doing, he didn't try pressing the "override the copilot stick" button.
***** i have never insult you, i just say you say BS that's a difference. Im not a jackass, I just can not stand people who say wrong things just to make others confused. If so, we can argu, between professionnals...do you dare then ? if not, then get a life...
bugy bug I think he assumed I was saying that the A330 had unique control sticks, whereas what I meant to imply (and he would have seen if he read my entire post) was that Airbus aircraft in general have unique control sticks. Every other large airliner in existence uses large, linked control yokes. Only Airbus uses fly-by-wire unlinked sidesticks that aren't even visible to each pilot, and sometimes that's a bad thing.
moeburn sure...I was talking others comments he made.....Yes I flew airbus, it's a tricky system...especially if one of the pilot have to take over the controls in hurry. And not only that...There is the throttle being stucked all the time...so you need to have your eyes on the screen most of the time to check what is your real power.
It really makes you think what the pilots are taught at flight simulator with this type of aircraft. Surely being able to fly the plane manually in this emergency situation should be high up on the list so all crew are comfortable in being able to do just that. Passengers would be a lot more at ease knowing that its not just technology flying the plane and there are alternatives in emergency. Their training missed so many critical things....WHY??
thats perfectly true. there is no doubt that if bonin had refrained from pulling the sidestick, the aircraft would not have crashed. the other co-pilot (sitting in the captain's seat) was pushing the stick down which was the only right thing you can do, though i do not know what level of thrust they applied. I think it was the big black hole (the ocean at night) that may have scared Bonin.
The left seat pilot did not know what the right seat pilot did with the side stick is a problem . The computa could have a better communication with the pilot like point out the problem and suggest a solution.
Having the plane against a dark background doesn't allow the viewer to appreciate the angle the plane was at. I know it was a night flight but there was no horizon to establish our horizons.
I think that bonin realized that turning off the antifreeze was a bad idea when the autopilot switched off just afterwards, and started panicking and thinking cloudily. clear inexperience too. where was the captain when the auto switched off?
Yes exactly, that is a critical change in flight process, captain should have been notified immediately unless he has full confidence in their abilities to fly the plane with no speed indicator. I would say if he was notified he would have been there in less than half the time.
Despite the fact that Airbus stood by their design philosophy, the fact that the copilot was operating a side stick, one that did not allow the pilot to read his copilot correctly due to its position may have contributed to the decisions. Also they don't correspond with the movements on the captain's side like a yoke on a Boeing.
Still find it hard to digest that any fan of Flight Simulator can recreate this particular crash, by dropping the plane from the sky like they did... And between the three of them they couldn't figure out what is going on.
Yea, it's pretty hard since the plane just literally "fell from the sky." That's what I don't understand either, even if your instruments have failed, an experienced pilot like Bonin should have known that his plane was dropping rapidly because he would've felt himself being pressed against his seat.
And the captain Dubois finally figured out they were in a stall and yelled don't pull up but it was too late to recover. That moron Bonin killed them all
They are trained to take off and land only not to deal with cruise altitude emergencies. ,they don't know how to fly at altitude... this was hopefully a wake up call for the FAA
He was NOT an experienced pilot...!! That's where you're wrong. And in fact Bonin was the least experienced of the 3... I can understand the confusion with the instruments and airspeed RE spirit tubes but to ignite a blaring stall warning and to watch your altitude in rapid descent and to not know you are in fact in a stall and the only way to recover from that is NOSE DOWN. I am not a pilot and even I know this... it's counterintuitive when you are losing altitude you want to pull up but all pilots should know the only recovery is to push down to regain airspeed and lift. But even Bonin should have known the procedure for stall recovery. Always trust the stall alarm and your altimeter....
They have sidesticks for pilot comfort and ergonomics. Airbus explained this. The purpose was to open up the space infront of the pilots, allowing more room for your legs, a clear view of the pilots instruments, without having a yoke partially blocking them, allows for the pilot to control the aircraft in comfort by having his/her hand on the armrest and control the plane with the stick and to allow space for the work table, which is also used to rest food on. Many pilots come to love the sidestick based on what I've been reading from them online for those reasons. Also since they went to fly by wire starting with the A320, they decided they no longer need the yoke, so they switched to the sidestick. Those are the reasons why Airbus and some other plane manufacturers switched to the sidestick. Of course Airbus screwed up by not linking them.
Hi from 2019. It kills me that I still can't understand why he was pulling the control stick all the time and nobody did anything about it? I mean the fact that if you pull the stick, don't enhance the engine, don't add the speed will cause the plane to stall and then fall into the flat tailspin is kind of the basics they teach you in a flight school from the day one. I can't understand how this dude Bonin had no idea what he was doing? How is this possible? There's actually a very similar aircrash that happened in Russia in 2006 (Tu-154 crashed near Donetsk), but it's Russia. And this is Air France trained pilots. Why was he pulling and pulling it up? Why?!
Panic. He didn’t have a clue what he was doing. So he went full panic mode. The Airbus is asymmetrical I think they call it. If pilot in the left seat has the joy stick all the way back the pilot in the right seat has no clue. Boeing both pilots know because it’s connected and in front of them. Airbus it’s not connected and on the side. Hidden
@@PInk77W1 thanks, I didn't know about this assymetry stuff. Still it makes no sense that Bonin was pulling. I mean, if it was a random person who just got caught in the First Officer's seat all of a sudden, I would understand. But this stuff they teach you in the flight school, am I right? Even random people on the Internet, like me, know that pulling up may cause a stall and flat tailspin, so you need to pitch the nose down a little to let the plane get the speed.
JustVid u ain’t under the stress of the moment. He totally panicked. Panic is the loss of reason caused by fear. He was obviously not trained very well. He mite of got a five min lecture on what to do if stall at nite and never tested on it. That is just a guess on my part.
@@PInk77W1 he was a certified pilot and he did a sequence of absolutely inexplicable actions starting from that initial pull-up that caused the stall, and ending up the statement "I don't know, I was pulling up all the time". I understand the thing about panic when you mean some unprepared dude who was just caught in this situation. But he was a trained pilot and this is something that the pilots are taught in the aviation school right in the very beginning - the basics. He caused the stall and then he did everything to deteriorate it right up until they all crashed. I can't imagine what was the quality of his flight school preparation and how he could pass through any exam with that kind of ignorance. He wasn't a random person, I mean, he didn't even realize the whole causation here - he didn't understand that him pulling the nose up to the critical AOA is the reason for the stall and the tailspin. How stupid he should have been? Is that even possible to happen with a pilot of a major European airline in 2009? I wonder if his flight instructor and whoever took his exams were ever investigated..
JustVid he panicked. Human beings fail. I wish it weren’t so. I talked to a Cathay Pacific 747 pilot. He told me the young guys act like it’s a video game they are playing. He said they have very little time actually flying and even less time flying in any kind of emergency. They take a few courses memorize a few answers and they are a pilot. Air France has crashed A320 A330 A340 A380
They did not recognize they were in a stall, and it was the first officer who was the least experienced on type flying it. Also, the stall alarm sounded like 76 time however, we should know that under sudden startle and stress and workload out of nowhere, the very first thing that a human loses is its hearing
For people who didn't know after the video stopped the plane stalled and crashed in the Atlantic breaking into pieces with no survivors . Edit :the censors froze and the pilots thought it stalled so while trying to un stall they stalled
For anybody that didn't know, it wasn't exactly the pilot's fault at all, let me elaborate. When the airbus's autopilot disengaged, the aircraft began to bank right and pitch down. Due to the lack of air and the fact that the aircraft is heavily loaded with fuel, the pilot flying knew he had to give more flight input into the stick for it to do what he wanted efficiently. Once he overcorrected a few times, he pulled the stick back full deflection, causing the stall warning to go off twice. Back then, and I'm pretty sure it still happens on some airbuses now, the stall warning, at high altitude, activates based on angle of attack and mach number. So in this case, the pitch angle became higher than the set value of the threshold, triggering the stall warning. The engines were at go around power at this point, and at 2:11, the aircraft could not fly any higher. At this point, the forward speed was so low that if the aircraft continued to pitch up, the stall warning fell silent, but if they pitched down, the stall warning would go off. This is due to the fact that the nose is raised high above the horizon, and no air is getting into the still screwed up pitot tubes. Even then, the speed still wasn't showing the correct readings. By the time the Captain returned to the cockpit, it was already too late to recover. The wings had lost too much lift. The stall was at the point where the wings started to roll over, and the aircraft continued on a heading back to Brazil, still falling fast. The reason why the stall warning sounded '75 times' as described by multiple sources is because the crew were unable to pull the nose of the plane up due to the lack of lift during the turn. The pilots thought they were travelling too fast, maybe because the speed indicators were still fluctuating, as indicated in the cockpit voice recorder transcript where Bonin asks if he should deploy the speedbrakes, only to be told by the Captain and the Relief First Officer that he shouldn't deploy them. It was only then with the realization that they were about to crash that Bonin's sidestick inputs caused the entire situation. The fact that the RFO pulled the stick back didn't help things as well, but it would have been too late anyway, as by this time they were just three thousand feet above the ocean. The aircraft impacts the water nose up and with the engines operating at go around thrust.
They have protection from a stall in NORMAL law. When the pitot tubes iced up the system switched to ALTERNATE law. Airbus aircraft do NOT have stall protection in alternate law, and an ECAM message alerted the pilots to this: “F/CTL ALTN LAW…PROT LOST”. In alternate law it is up to the pilots to recover from a stall. The aircraft won’t do it itself. Robert actually warned Bonin about this as well.
@@lbowsk Read everything I just said again, I apologize for what I said and made more sense about everything that actually happened. I was young and stupid when I typed it. Is it better now?
Slammed into Ocean in The Pitch Dark Night...Many Bodies Were Found Still Strapped in Their Seats 2 Miles Down at Bottom of Ocean Floor...Commercial Air Travel is Absurd!
At what height could this flight have been saved? Assuming a responsible pilot took over from Bonin! The Captain appears to enter the cockpit at around 17,000 ft....could the plane have been recovered at that height if he immediately knew and took over from Bonin?
I read a report where investigators were determining that after dropping through 31,500 feet, not much more could have been done to save the aircraft. The plane at that point was essentially doomed. The captain was way too late at 17,000 for his aircraft dropping 10,000 ft. per minute.
true no speed indicator, but it actually deiced and came back on there for a bit, I mean bottom line if they pitched that nose up that high, you would basically get out of your seat and find it difficult to stand in the isle, you would think perhaps even the pilot sitting in the aisle might have seen an issue, came up, but geeez in a matter of 3-5 minutes these 3, managed to bring a plane down from 38,000 feet, I dont think it could be much faster than that?
It seems like the Titanic would have been worse. You had a couple hours to know that you might not make it. These passengers although confused, more than likely knew something was happening to their airplane but without any real reference to where they were since it was pitch black outside, it is hard to say that the passengers had any idea that would not make it to Paris.
Sickening. 1. I’m not a pilot and I could’ve done better than bonin. 2. “We’ve lost control of the plane We’ve tried everything.” It’s an Airbus. 3. Trying to climb at 35,000ft or whatever they were is re tard ed. The minute u start losing altitude u have to point the nose down. This is simple people. 4. They need a new rule. Call it the AF447 rule. “If a Captain is on rest and an emergency starts The captain has 20 seconds to be back in his seat. Period.
I find myself having said before that even I could have handled this situation a lot more appropriately. However, all the confusion going on in the cockpit, plus leaving a junior in-experienced First Officer to fly through a storm, incorrect readings thanks to the Pitot tubes failing definitely contributed to the disaster than unfolded. Hindsight is 20/20 but the crew definitely knew they were going down. They just realized it too late and Bonin for some reason never seemed to let the nose pitch down to regain speed.
@@MIAFlyer u left out the fact that the Captain was partying all nite the nite before with his mistress girlfriend. If u have a serious job and don’t take it serious.
At least use the virtual cockpit instead of the ugly 2D one. You could've included actual "stall" warning sound from the FSX sim, and also the shudder effect.
Why can't you guys realize that it is the pilots fault,when the pitot tubes froze, the pilot had to do nothing! Just fly the plane but The co pilot Pierre Cedric Bonin just stalled the dam plane. He had to just fly normally!
I saw a documentary on this and it is great. You learn that Air France sent out memo's to all the pilots explaining that the pitots tubes can freeze over and they are in the process of being replaced.. So the pilots should have known that they may freeze.. There was no issue at all.. and then because of Bonin the plane stalled and for some reason Bonin is the only pilot ever to not know what to do when a plan goes into a stall.. The plane was functioning as it should with no problems.. Bonin created the problem, then the opposite of what any pilot would do, didnt communicate anything to the other pilots.. This was pilot error 100 percent.. He killed all those people, including his own wife!
It's really inexplicable why he would continue to pull back, when they needed to do the opposite to regain speed and life. Robert realized they needed to pitch the nose forward and Bonin did. They actually were briefly in control of the plane, but Bonin again decided to pull back, even when Robert was pushing forward on his stick, so they were canceling each other out. Because of the positioning of the sticks, adjacent to the seats, Robert couldn't see what Bonin was doing the 2nd time. When Captain Dubois returned, he realized that Bonin was still pulling back, but it was too late. This potentially offers an explication for what Bonin was thinking. 02:11:03 (Bonin) Je suis en TOGA, hein? I'm in TOGA, huh? Bonin's statement here offers a crucial window onto his reasoning. TOGA is an acronym for Take Off, Go Around. When a plane is taking off or aborting a landing-"going around"-it must gain both speed and altitude as efficiently as possible. At this critical phase of flight, pilots are trained to increase engine speed to the TOGA level and raise the nose to a certain pitch angle. Clearly, here Bonin is trying to achieve the same effect: He wants to increase speed and to climb away from danger. But he is not at sea level; he is in the far thinner air of 37,500 feet. The engines generate less thrust here, and the wings generate less lift. Raising the nose to a certain angle of pitch does not result in the same angle of climb, but far less. Indeed, it can-and will-result in a descent. While Bonin's behavior is irrational, it is not inexplicable. Intense psychological stress tends to shut down the part of the brain responsible for innovative, creative thought. Instead, we tend to revert to the familiar and the well-rehearsed. Though pilots are required to practice hand-flying their aircraft during all phases of flight as part of recurrent training, in their daily routine they do most of their hand-flying at low altitude-while taking off, landing, and maneuvering. It's not surprising, then, that amid the frightening disorientation of the thunderstorm, Bonin reverted to flying the plane as if it had been close to the ground, even though this response was totally ill-suited to the situation.
HandTigers21 I get the sense that Bonin didn't believe they were stalling at all. He knew they were descending, as he begs the plane to climb, but he doesn't seem to believe the computer's warning that it's caused by a stall; he thinks they're going too fast: "I have the impression we have some crazy speed". But then, I haven't read the entire transcript, just seen the reconstructions, and I'm no expert. He even seems reluctant to stop pulling the nose up (and I'm not sure he believed it was responding and pitching up, either) when the captain says they must. Do you think he ever understood that they were stalling?
optifog You make an interesting point because not once in the transcript is the word "stall" spoken. However the stall warning sounded some 75 times. Bonin essentially resorted to basic logic that "I want to go up so I'm gonna pull up". He let his instincts overrule his brain under pressure. Not to mention the two co-pilots had a definite lack of collaboration. It's never clear from the moment the captain leaves which pilot is the lead pilot and which is the supporting pilot.
At what point would they still have been able to save the plane? If the captain recognised the problem immediately upon returning would they have been able to save it?
I think you might be able to speculate that had the captain caught the issue at around the moment the co-pilot started to pull the plane up, it could have been saved. It's really hard to comprehend though that no one understood until the last few seconds that the plane was plummeting to the ocean. You would think after the stall warning goes off over 70 times and the plane is shaking and rocking back and forth while falling from the sky at 10,000 feet per minute that someone in the cockpit would've thought to pitch the nose down. After a minute or so as well, all pitot tubes had de-iced. There were so many wrong decisions and inputs that night. Hindsight is 20/20 but a reduction and speed and deciding to apply the speed brakes was a poor choice on Bonin's part.
I'm sorry even if the pilot tubes malfunctioned , how incompetent can a pilot be . He started yanking the stick back climbing , even after the damn stall alarm went off . I'm no pilot , and the only planes I fly are the ones on my iPhone , but damnit even I know that if I pull up without giving power the im Gona die in the game . And I don't even get the stall alarm . And even after a stall starts there is still some time before it becomes uncontrollable. The simple answer is that the captain wanted to screw around with his friend which is why he didn't even care to divert the plane away from the storm , he didn't even care that he was handing the charge of the plane to the least experienced pilot , and when he was buzzed to come back in , instead of taking 10 to 20 secs this idiot took almost a minute cause he was screwing behind . Next up is bonin , that idiot deserves to die just for his incompetency . I'm just sad that other had to die cause of his stupidity . I mean once he took charge of the aircraft he bares the most blame of the crash . Robert bares only the responsibility of the fact that when wanted control of the plane back he should have verbalized that to his incompetent partner .
I totally feel you bro. This is some unimaginable mixture of stupidity and incompetence. I would have never believed this if I hadn't read and then saw the reports.
If only Dubois hadn't left the other two First Officers alone in the cockpit, chances are this terrible tragedy would never have happened. If I was a Captain who regularly flew cross Atlantic and especially through the Intertropical Convergence Zones (ICZ) I'd never leave the cockpit.
Many times throughout the few minutes that they were struggling over the Atlantic, Bonin pulled the nose up. What shocks me the most is that even after hearing the stall warning over 70 times blare in the cockpit, the issue was still not corrected until the very end at which point, nothing could save the plane.
Yep ..Here is a list of stupidities: 1. The Junior most copilot (Rookie) didn't know that you can't keep pulling back on the joystick to climb the aircraft when it is at high altitude. You will stall the aircraft. 2. The other copilot considerably more experienced allowed the junior copilot to continue controlling the aircraft. 3. The captain left the cockpit, knowing that they will be flying into bad weather soon, for a nap, allowing the junior pilot in command of the aircraft. 4. Air France for not adequately training their pilots, the captain on down to the junior copilot. 5. Airbus for designing the joystick controls so poorly that there was no indications or motion/tactile feed back on the joysticks to show what the other joystick and the other pilot is doing.
You mean idiots who are so stupid they ignore a stall alarm and pull UP on the nos instead of pushing it down to recover....and regain lift... ironically if bonin had just let go of the stick, the nose would have dropped automatically and the plane would have recovered on its own.
The stall alarm sounded 75 f'ing times and the two bonehead pilots in the cockpit just didn't even acknowledge it. The bonehead captain comes back to the cockpit EVENTUALLY and sits down on the observer seat...and not order one of the pilots to get out of their seats so he can be at the controls. Amazing ...just amazing and appalling.
its confusing when you have wrong speed indication (high speed) and rapid loss of altitude and the stall warning all at the same time . And FYI the A330 can’t be stalled in Normal Law that created more confusion , so the co-pilot decided to trust the wrong speed indicator showing high speed and started to pull up the side-stick . Its easy to say they must have done this and that when you are sitting at home . But not in a dark stormy night with multiple failures .
Startle effect,night,turbulence,lack of specific training, fear of dying (pilots are human like eveybody else). Its always fun to read how people sitting in their sofas with absolutely zero aviation knowledge would have saved the situation
not true. the other two pilots were equally clueless and had no idea how to solve the issue. main guy didnt even get back into the seat and just sat at the jumpseat offering slightly better advice. of course bonins constant stick input did the rest lol.
@@ImperialDiecast Because they did not realize that he had been pitching up the entire time. Captain and the other Pilot did realize it, just too late. Bonin initially caused the situation by putting it into a nose high attitude right after the autopilot disconnected. He was just a timebomb waiting to go off. Complete inability to use reason, logic, and training under even the slightest pressure.
no they could only feel some vibration (buffeting) but as there were turbulences too, so it was imperceptible...so they could not have any clue (even cabin crew who were experienced)..there was not any acceleration, the plane was in a continuous decent (in physic, a uniform movement)...they felt nothing.
I actually heard in an interview a while back that the passengers were able to feel all the turbulence and stall. I remember the guy describing it, he said it must have been the most "horrific" couple of minutes for the passengers.
a lot of people (pax) do not know the difference between stall, turbulence, turns....during a deep stall (441 case) there is no acceleration...as long as there is no acceleration, you can not feel any thing....turbulence and turns, yep there is acceleration, that's why we can feel it. A stall is like being in cruise...except it's going down...
+bugy bug I find it hard to believe this. Anyone that's been on a flight at night can still hear and feel the engine thrust changes and I can always feel when the plane starts its decent. Not to mention the change in pressure would have been noticeable.
And if they were asleep they were certainly awakened by the turbulence. Everyone on that plane knew something was wrong before it hit the ocean. They all knew. I wish they did not know.... so sad and scary to think about what they went through those final 4 minutes....
you are total wrong.... First of all, your english is terrible... sorry, but i have to say.... and second, the Video Editor is right, it was a Airbus A330! and this plane has also 2 engines like the 777... 😉
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You forgot to put in the vital line when Bonin reveals he was holding the stick back the whole time !?!?! Makes the whole video redundant !
My heart cries for all pessangers whenever revisit the tragedy, which I often do . Heartbreaking
I feel for the families. The passengers/crew didn't know what was happening, for them was like a normal flight, they most probably was warned by the crew that it was normal turbulence since they were passing through a storm. It was a lights on lights off situation.
@@hugopfeffer4175 I'm sure they would of felt it rocking about and up and down prob didnt know they were gunna crash cause they were in an Airbus. Least that's one mercy they didnt realise
@@jozcarter3428 they must have realised when it was too late
Bro they all died
I know. Flight 447 never had to go down into the Atlantic at all but what still gets me to this day is that the pilot kept on pulling up even though he knew he was stalling. They even knew they were losing speed like crazy. Even I know to push the nose of the plane down whenever I'm flying with flightsim. I know it's two different things but you need to ask yourself this. Aren't these basic things pilots learn? Why would you keep pulling up when all your doing is making the plane fall???
He didn’t know he was stalling.
He was in full panic.
Panic means having so much fear u
Lose control of your reasoning.
Funny you mention the story yet you didn't put it in the video. Are you okay?
@@PInk77W1 isnt it common training to know a stall recovery? the second i hear that stall alarm, i'm making sure it's not a false, and if it's true, pushing that nose down for the recovery of air speed, and to prevent falling like a brick.
@@ThatAviationGamer I’m not a pilot
But I would guess it is common training.
I think a lot of training is not realistic.
You watch a video, take a test and
You’re now trained. I hope I’m wrong
But he slipped thru Somehow.
I asked a 747 pilot shoot that case once.
He got real upset and said
“Some of the new pilots know how to pass a test but no clue how to fly the plane”
@@PInk77W1 I’m no pilot too
✈️To make this story even WORSE, Pilot Dubois was married yet having an affair with a French off duty flight attendant named Veronique Gaignard, and they were staying together in Rio de Janeiro at Sofitel on Copacabana for a weekend partying and visiting friends, even taking a helicopter ride over the city's bay before this flight. They were on their way back home to Paris, and she was on this flight with Dubois. When he left the cockpit for his "nap", he was likely getting attention from her which is why it took him so long to respond to the call from Robert and Bonin in the cockpit. He had complained just before the flight saying he had only gotten an hour of sleep the night before and "it wasn't enough."....🤔
Another fun fact....Pierre Bonin's wife Isabelle was on this flight with him, she was a French physics teacher at their local high school.✈️😢
Had he (F/O Bonin) just LEFT the controls alone, and kept the auto-pilot ON, the pitot tubes would have worked properly again in about 1 MINUTE and the plane would have NEVER crashed. They hit the water belly first going about 150 mph with a slight nose up pitch.😢💔
✈️🙏~~R.I.P AIR FRANCE FLIGHT 447~~🙏✈️
Auto-pilot turned off because of the faulty data from pitot tubes. So he couldn't "keep in on", but if he knew what happened with tubes freezing, he could've turned the auto-pilot on after the ice was cleaned.
It was also over 200mph.
When I was a kid they used to sell those balsa wood toy airplanes with a little counterweight that was put on the front when put together. I think as young as ten I realized that if you pitched the plane straight up or at a steep angle it fell to the ground, if you threw it straight and level it flew, if it went into a nose down position it picked up speed. These pilots had years of training and flying hours and they couldn't figure out what they were doing wrong? Wow...makes me really scared to fly!
Blame the PF Bonin, Robert had no idea
An airplane is not a stupid toy
The aerodynamics are the same. The point is that clearly Bonin did not trust himself and had absolutely zero self awareness. He said “I’ve got the plane” then when the other FO told him he was climbing he stated “I am?” right after he said he had the plane. He didn’t even know how he was controlling it at first. And clearly he from the second that the auto pilot turned off he panicked.
Same
there were copilots taking their shift i believe
Watch the BEA(french NTSB)reproduction of how bonnin was yanking the stick all over the place,it is just outrageous that this guy could have been in a A330 cockpit,his inputs on the stick were just savage and incomprehensible.
He was insufficiently trained.
@@pascalxavier3367 That and he seemed to suffer a lot from startle effects.
@@pascalxavier3367 More like he NEVER should have been hired. This guy was no pilot.
i just saw all those videos and voice recording now. For me the most incredible is how the media never treated this case as incompetence/murder case. Before the black box was all about the Pitot and after they just went "silent" .....
Captain is to blame
I hope all may rest in peace.
All, that means Bonin too.
Let,s prove we are not savages by acting a little human.
The man suffered the same as the rest on board.
Rest in peace, Bonin and everyone else on board.
Agreed! In his last few seconds of life, he knew he would perish and that was probably more traumatizing that the impact itself.
Not a very accurate simulation. First of all, the autopilot shut off because the pitot tubes became blocked with ice and the airspeed indicators stopped working. The autopilot can't function if it doesn't know how fast the plane is going. This also prevented the stall-prevention system in the control stick from working, making the aircraft behave more responsively than usual. The pilot first started to roll the aircraft back and forth, left and right, not used to the alternate control law. After he finally steadied the aircraft, he THEN started to pitch up.
You make no mention of the rolling, or the alternate control scheme, or the fact that they have no airspeed indicator.
Not even the flight level is correct, they never flew that high. Just have a look at the official BEA report, it’s available online:
www.bea.aero/docspa/2009/f-cp090601.en/pdf/f-cp090601.en.pdf
If you can do better, feel free to compete.
moeburn ici
I will never fly with air France again scary
Air France crash A320
Air France crash A330
Air France crash A340
Air France crash A380
@@PInk77W1 Which Air France A 380 crash are you talking about?
@@anthonycastel7223 JFK
Takes a lot of bad things to happen in a row to create an air crash. That is what happened here. Storm, bad timing for the Captain to take a break, bad protocol when the Captain left the cabin in not putting one of the remaining pilots in control, pitot tube blockage, delay in the Captain returning after being called, and of course pilot error.
What an ill timed break by the captain.
Absolutely... I do place some blame onto that captain Dubois . He knew before his break that a bad thunderstorm was ahead. He should have stayed in that cockpit and dealt with it himself until that threat had passed.... and the thing they should have done is as much as possible go around and avoid that thunderstorm and storm clouds.. do not fly straight into it attempting to fly through it. Can't fly over or under it. It was moving west to east so go West (left) to try to get behind it ...
Three major things went wrong to cause this accident. It's never only one reason.
1) the thunderstorm
Bad judgment by the captain to fly into it and to leave the cockpit at that exact moment. And no discussion about flying around it? Makes no sense.
2) the pitot tubes icing up causing incorect air speed readings
3) major pilot error by the third officer ( least experienced pilot)... pulling back on the nose in a stall...putting it into the stall to begin with h and then keeping it there un
That is just basic flying 101... how to recover from a stall and know that you are in a stall and do not ignore the stall alarms.....
Do I have always blamed Bonin for this accident but he is not 100% at fault. I do place some blame on Captain Dubois.
2nd officer Robert seems to be the only one who did not do anything wrong. In face he was trying to do the right thing.. push the nose down in a stall !
(to finish my sentence ) Bonin put the plane into the stall to begin with and kept it in the stall until it crashed
So I have always blamed Bonin
In fact not in face
Yes, I think what Bonin was doing (pulling back on the stick in a stall) was so stupid and unbelievable that neither Robert and eventually Dubois ever thought that Bonin was actually doing that. Due to the design deficiency of Airbus aircraft there was no indication to the other crew members of what the joysticks are doing.
RIP!!!! this flight never goes out of my mind! I d like to be in contact to any family to try some words of comfort , but we know it is impossible! Mr Marinho was always on some reports on TV, he lost his son ( I am so sorry mr Marinho, ,,, hope meet u one day to give best regards! !!)
Miss soulas has a youtube channel. She lost her daughter in this flight
The airplane was in good condition, but the pilots panicked in a storm at night in a radio dead zone. Pilot Bonin pitched the nose up during a stall when obviously he knew better -- that was pure panic.
He pitched the nose to cause stall and the panic was the consequence of his own undoing, not the other way around.
It's unbelievable that the first officers couldn't understand until the last moment what was happening. Obviously you have the lack of training to add to this terrible situation, and the failure in the pitot tubes, and all the faulty readings that the plane were giving them... but still... People expect pilots to try and think about possibilities and not stick to only one. Such a terrible chain of events...
Actually it's a shame because the captain trusted the rookie to know how to get out of the storm. Rookie ended up stalling the plane due to his thinking that going up in altitude will get them out of the storm. Sigh. So sad.
kimmybbbyeah That's not really true. The only instrument that wasn't working was the air speed indicator. The instruments clearly showed he was climbing -- which is what he should expect when he pulls back on the stick the whole time.
the captain should have taken controls....as a captain I would remove the PIC rapidly and make him seat on the right seat (to have 2 experience pilots). Nevertheless, a captain who need to focus on a problem shoudl leave the controls to the copilot...(as the copilot can fly a plane as well as the captain). But in this case it was too dangerous...
No michael. When he initially pulled back on the joystick he did go up in altitude about 3,000 feet then lost airspeed on the wings and started to drop straight down because he kept pulling up on the stick! He stalled the plane. He never should have gone up. And if he thought he could go above the thunderstorm , I read that storms can be as high as 50,000 feet. You can't go over them only around. Also the air is so thin at 36,000 feet that you can't gain altitude easily even with full thrust on the engines... which he did not do by the way. He just pulled the stick up. Put the plane into a stall and kept pulling it up and stalling it until it hit the ocean. So incredible to think the plane was not flying at all the last 3-4 minutes. It was just dropping straight down like a manhole cover....
The instruments clearly showed and initial
Climb of 3,000 and then the altimeter showed a rapid descent. They were clearly losing altitude... rapidly.
The altimeter was working and clearly showed the correct altitude. It was descending rapidly . And of course you can feel an ascent and a descent at night. But a descent with the nose up is admittedly harder to detect at first. The nose was up and there was violent shuddering so it would be confusing for the passengers to know for sure that they were descending rapidly toward the ocean.:.. my point is they didn't know they were going to hit the ocean and die but they surely felt strong strong turbulence on the way down.....they knew something was "wrong"... that this was an emergency situation
One of the most advanced aircraft ever built,but sheer ineptitude led to unbelievable decision making,even the planes computers knew it was being flown wrong . RIP
Had Bonin just maintained the plane level for about 56 seconds to a minute, the pitot tubes would have recalibrated.
You missed a lot here including the plane turning right because the right wing stalled more than the left
Thanks for the comment. Looking back at it as it was also made 10 years ago, there are quite a few things that I did miss. Given the chance to make a new one today, I would definitely try and get it up to par as much as possible. It wasn't up until a few weeks ago that I watched the actual simulation itself and saw how the plane basically did a whole 180 degree turn and essentially facing Brazil at the time of the crash.
Couldn’t they notice they were pitching up by the fact that they were being pressed against their seats?
It seems like that would be likely but with the incorrect speeds and indicators that they were receiving from their instruments, that more than likely added to the confusion. Not to mention, it's pitch black outside with no horizon to be able to adhere to.
This was also an unusual aircraft in that it didn't have linked control yokes. Instead, each pilot had a small joystick on their side (left side for pilot and right side for copilot). On most aircraft, the control yokes are linked - when one pilot makes an input like turning or pushing back on the yoke, the other copilot's yoke moves too. On Airbus airliners, they are unlinked digital joysticks. They are also positioned in a way that the pilot can't actually see the copilots joystick, as it is on the copilot's right side. The entire time, the pilot had no idea the copilot was pulling back on the stick - he even tried to rectify the situation by pushing forward on his own stick, but because he didn't know what the copilot was doing, he didn't try pressing the "override the copilot stick" button.
***** Pilots disagree with you. They find the sidestick configuration quite unusual.
moeburn don't bother, he is not a pilot (i hope so) if you see his previous comments, he just says BS all the time....a troll.
***** i have never insult you, i just say you say BS that's a difference. Im not a jackass, I just can not stand people who say wrong things just to make others confused. If so, we can argu, between professionnals...do you dare then ? if not, then get a life...
bugy bug I think he assumed I was saying that the A330 had unique control sticks, whereas what I meant to imply (and he would have seen if he read my entire post) was that Airbus aircraft in general have unique control sticks. Every other large airliner in existence uses large, linked control yokes. Only Airbus uses fly-by-wire unlinked sidesticks that aren't even visible to each pilot, and sometimes that's a bad thing.
moeburn sure...I was talking others comments he made.....Yes I flew airbus, it's a tricky system...especially if one of the pilot have to take over the controls in hurry. And not only that...There is the throttle being stucked all the time...so you need to have your eyes on the screen most of the time to check what is your real power.
Legend has it that Bonin is still trying to pull the stick backwards.
I remember watching this 5 years ago.... it feels good watching it again.
It really makes you think what the pilots are taught at flight simulator with this type of aircraft. Surely being able to fly the plane manually in this emergency situation should be high up on the list so all crew are comfortable in being able to do just that. Passengers would be a lot more at ease knowing that its not just technology flying the plane and there are alternatives in emergency. Their training missed so many critical things....WHY??
Agreed!
thats perfectly true. there is no doubt that if bonin had refrained from pulling the sidestick, the aircraft would not have crashed. the other co-pilot (sitting in the captain's seat) was pushing the stick down which was the only right thing you can do, though i do not know what level of thrust they applied. I think it was the big black hole (the ocean at night) that may have scared Bonin.
The left seat pilot did not know what the right seat pilot did with the side stick is a problem . The computa could have a better communication with the pilot like point out the problem and suggest a solution.
Esse acidente ainda me entriga !
Assiste o Lito, no canal Avioes e Música
wow chill with how real it looks
Having the plane against a dark background doesn't allow the viewer to appreciate the angle the plane was at. I know it was a night flight but there was no horizon to establish our horizons.
I think that bonin realized that turning off the antifreeze was a bad idea when the autopilot switched off just afterwards, and started panicking and thinking cloudily. clear inexperience too. where was the captain when the auto switched off?
Taking a scheduled normal break.. a nap. It was 2am. Unfortunately bad timing for him to leave the cockpit...
Yes exactly, that is a critical change in flight process, captain should have been notified immediately unless he has full confidence in their abilities to fly the plane with no speed indicator. I would say if he was notified he would have been there in less than half the time.
@@Erin.56 but at that time he came in to the cockpit he should have taking control to the aircraft
Awesome reconstruction
Thanks! :) Glad you enjoyed watching it.
Despite the fact that Airbus stood by their design philosophy, the fact that the copilot was operating a side stick, one that did not allow the pilot to read his copilot correctly due to its position may have contributed to the decisions. Also they don't correspond with the movements on the captain's side like a yoke on a Boeing.
Still find it hard to digest that any fan of Flight Simulator can recreate this particular crash, by dropping the plane from the sky like they did... And between the three of them they couldn't figure out what is going on.
Yea, it's pretty hard since the plane just literally "fell from the sky." That's what I don't understand either, even if your instruments have failed, an experienced pilot like Bonin should have known that his plane was dropping rapidly because he would've felt himself being pressed against his seat.
+Piklener Foiss the moron bonin had the stick pulled back and robert had no idea until it was to late.
And the captain Dubois finally figured out they were in a stall and yelled don't pull up but it was too late to recover. That moron Bonin killed them all
They are trained to take off and land only not to deal with cruise altitude emergencies. ,they don't know how to fly at altitude... this was hopefully a wake up call for the FAA
He was NOT an experienced pilot...!! That's where you're wrong. And in fact Bonin was the least experienced of the 3...
I can understand the confusion with the instruments and airspeed RE spirit tubes but to ignite a blaring stall warning and to watch your altitude in rapid descent and to not know you are in fact in a stall and the only way to recover from that is NOSE DOWN. I am not a pilot and even I know this... it's counterintuitive when you are losing altitude you want to pull up but all pilots should know the only recovery is to push down to regain airspeed and lift.
But even Bonin should have known the procedure for stall recovery. Always trust the stall alarm and your altimeter....
Is there a reason why Airbus Aircraft fly with a side joystick and not a yolk?
Because airbuses' control surfaces are commanded electronically.
Love when my commentators teach me something new!
They have sidesticks for pilot comfort and ergonomics. Airbus explained this. The purpose was to open up the space infront of the pilots, allowing more room for your legs, a clear view of the pilots instruments, without having a yoke partially blocking them, allows for the pilot to control the aircraft in comfort by having his/her hand on the armrest and control the plane with the stick and to allow space for the work table, which is also used to rest food on. Many pilots come to love the sidestick based on what I've been reading from them online for those reasons. Also since they went to fly by wire starting with the A320, they decided they no longer need the yoke, so they switched to the sidestick. Those are the reasons why Airbus and some other plane manufacturers switched to the sidestick. Of course Airbus screwed up by not linking them.
I would have.thought engine sound would have said if you where doing 600 mph or 150 mph
very good animation.🙏
Hi from 2019. It kills me that I still can't understand why he was pulling the control stick all the time and nobody did anything about it? I mean the fact that if you pull the stick, don't enhance the engine, don't add the speed will cause the plane to stall and then fall into the flat tailspin is kind of the basics they teach you in a flight school from the day one. I can't understand how this dude Bonin had no idea what he was doing? How is this possible? There's actually a very similar aircrash that happened in Russia in 2006 (Tu-154 crashed near Donetsk), but it's Russia. And this is Air France trained pilots. Why was he pulling and pulling it up? Why?!
Panic. He didn’t have a clue what he was doing.
So he went full panic mode.
The Airbus is asymmetrical I think they call it.
If pilot in the left seat has the joy stick all the way back the pilot in the right seat has no clue.
Boeing both pilots know because it’s connected and in front of them.
Airbus it’s not connected and on the side.
Hidden
@@PInk77W1 thanks, I didn't know about this assymetry stuff. Still it makes no sense that Bonin was pulling. I mean, if it was a random person who just got caught in the First Officer's seat all of a sudden, I would understand. But this stuff they teach you in the flight school, am I right? Even random people on the Internet, like me, know that pulling up may cause a stall and flat tailspin, so you need to pitch the nose down a little to let the plane get the speed.
JustVid u ain’t under the stress of the moment.
He totally panicked. Panic is the loss of reason caused by fear. He was obviously not trained very well. He mite of got a five min lecture on what to do if stall at nite and never tested on it.
That is just a guess on my part.
@@PInk77W1 he was a certified pilot and he did a sequence of absolutely inexplicable actions starting from that initial pull-up that caused the stall, and ending up the statement "I don't know, I was pulling up all the time". I understand the thing about panic when you mean some unprepared dude who was just caught in this situation. But he was a trained pilot and this is something that the pilots are taught in the aviation school right in the very beginning - the basics. He caused the stall and then he did everything to deteriorate it right up until they all crashed. I can't imagine what was the quality of his flight school preparation and how he could pass through any exam with that kind of ignorance. He wasn't a random person, I mean, he didn't even realize the whole causation here - he didn't understand that him pulling the nose up to the critical AOA is the reason for the stall and the tailspin. How stupid he should have been? Is that even possible to happen with a pilot of a major European airline in 2009? I wonder if his flight instructor and whoever took his exams were ever investigated..
JustVid he panicked. Human beings fail.
I wish it weren’t so. I talked to a
Cathay Pacific 747 pilot. He told me the young guys act like it’s a video game they are playing.
He said they have very little time actually flying and even less time flying in any kind of emergency. They take a few courses memorize a few answers and they are a pilot.
Air France has crashed
A320
A330
A340
A380
It is very strange how experienced pilots couldn't handle a stall. The stall alarm was over 10-20 times. R. I. P to all passengers and crew.
They did not recognize they were in a stall, and it was the first officer who was the least experienced on type flying it. Also, the stall alarm sounded like 76 time however, we should know that under sudden startle and stress and workload out of nowhere, the very first thing that a human loses is its hearing
This is so awesome! I've watched it twice!
Five years ago yesterday.
Seven years ago now
9 years ago
10 years ago in a couple of days.
10 years
For people who didn't know after the video stopped the plane stalled and crashed in the Atlantic breaking into pieces with no survivors . Edit :the censors froze and the pilots thought it stalled so while trying to un stall they stalled
nice flying
The pitot tubes blocked.. Isn't it ironical that pitot is a French name
For anybody that didn't know, it wasn't exactly the pilot's fault at all, let me elaborate.
When the airbus's autopilot disengaged, the aircraft began to bank right and pitch down. Due to the lack of air and the fact that the aircraft is heavily loaded with fuel, the pilot flying knew he had to give more flight input into the stick for it to do what he wanted efficiently. Once he overcorrected a few times, he pulled the stick back full deflection, causing the stall warning to go off twice.
Back then, and I'm pretty sure it still happens on some airbuses now, the stall warning, at high altitude, activates based on angle of attack and mach number.
So in this case, the pitch angle became higher than the set value of the threshold, triggering the stall warning. The engines were at go around power at this point, and at 2:11, the aircraft could not fly any higher.
At this point, the forward speed was so low that if the aircraft continued to pitch up, the stall warning fell silent, but if they pitched down, the stall warning would go off. This is due to the fact that the nose is raised high above the horizon, and no air is getting into the still screwed up pitot tubes. Even then, the speed still wasn't showing the correct readings.
By the time the Captain returned to the cockpit, it was already too late to recover. The wings had lost too much lift. The stall was at the point where the wings started to roll over, and the aircraft continued on a heading back to Brazil, still falling fast. The reason why the stall warning sounded '75 times' as described by multiple sources is because the crew were unable to pull the nose of the plane up due to the lack of lift during the turn.
The pilots thought they were travelling too fast, maybe because the speed indicators were still fluctuating, as indicated in the cockpit voice recorder transcript where Bonin asks if he should deploy the speedbrakes, only to be told by the Captain and the Relief First Officer that he shouldn't deploy them. It was only then with the realization that they were about to crash that Bonin's sidestick inputs caused the entire situation. The fact that the RFO pulled the stick back didn't help things as well, but it would have been too late anyway, as by this time they were just three thousand feet above the ocean.
The aircraft impacts the water nose up and with the engines operating at go around thrust.
They have protection from a stall in NORMAL law. When the pitot tubes iced up the system switched to ALTERNATE law. Airbus aircraft do NOT have stall protection in alternate law, and an ECAM message alerted the pilots to this: “F/CTL ALTN LAW…PROT LOST”. In alternate law it is up to the pilots to recover from a stall. The aircraft won’t do it itself.
Robert actually warned Bonin about this as well.
@@muttley8818 could they have switched the autopilot back on when the pitot tubes unfroze?
No, it was the pilot, more specifically the FO Bonin.
My God, you have no idea what you're spewing. None. That people read your tripe and might actually believe it makes me ill. STOP. Delete your post.
@@lbowsk Read everything I just said again, I apologize for what I said and made more sense about everything that actually happened. I was young and stupid when I typed it. Is it better now?
Its not the plane its the pilot and what gets me is he was a experienced pilot and he doesnt know basic of when stalling you put your nose down?
Bonin shouldn't have been at the commands of the plane when the incident began.
..good work, very informative simulation..two thumbs up
this is probably the worst performance of any cockpit ensemble ever
Slammed into Ocean in The Pitch Dark Night...Many Bodies Were Found Still Strapped in Their Seats 2 Miles Down at Bottom of Ocean Floor...Commercial Air Travel is Absurd!
One would think the captain would've been able to tell what happened, jump in and save the plane.
not enough time to assess the situation and react.
If he would’ve sprinted from his rest to his seat yes
Why does the cockpit remind of a fnaf office
At what height could this flight have been saved? Assuming a responsible pilot took over from Bonin! The Captain appears to enter the cockpit at around 17,000 ft....could the plane have been recovered at that height if he immediately knew and took over from Bonin?
I read a report where investigators were determining that after dropping through 31,500 feet, not much more could have been done to save the aircraft. The plane at that point was essentially doomed. The captain was way too late at 17,000 for his aircraft dropping 10,000 ft. per minute.
but maybe in the daylight changing something?
Piloto completamente despreparado!! Incrível a falha dessa tripulação! Muito triste!
Bonin killed em all am afraid!
you got it 100%
I also think so; he multiplied the wrong maneuvers.
true no speed indicator, but it actually deiced and came back on there for a bit, I mean bottom line if they pitched that nose up that high, you would basically get out of your seat and find it difficult to stand in the isle, you would think perhaps even the pilot sitting in the aisle might have seen an issue, came up, but geeez in a matter of 3-5 minutes these 3, managed to bring a plane down from 38,000 feet, I dont think it could be much faster than that?
Why didn't the Captain order "my controls" when he re-entered cockpit?
He was unaware that Bonin was so incompetent.
i hope on my next flight, i dont have drunken pilots...
You mean, Frozen Pitot Tubes! Yes I would hope that does not happen either.
The primary flight display looks wrong.
Horrifying, idk what's worse this or the Titanic sinking
It seems like the Titanic would have been worse. You had a couple hours to know that you might not make it. These passengers although confused, more than likely knew something was happening to their airplane but without any real reference to where they were since it was pitch black outside, it is hard to say that the passengers had any idea that would not make it to Paris.
@@MIAFlyer I agree I don't wanna imagine how the passengers felt knowing they were going to die right in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean
Sickening.
1. I’m not a pilot and I could’ve done better than bonin.
2. “We’ve lost control of the plane
We’ve tried everything.”
It’s an Airbus.
3. Trying to climb at 35,000ft or whatever they were is re tard ed. The minute u start losing altitude u have to point the nose down.
This is simple people.
4. They need a new rule. Call it the
AF447 rule.
“If a Captain is on rest and an emergency starts
The captain has 20 seconds to be back in his seat. Period.
I find myself having said before that even I could have handled this situation a lot more appropriately. However, all the confusion going on in the cockpit, plus leaving a junior in-experienced First Officer to fly through a storm, incorrect readings thanks to the Pitot tubes failing definitely contributed to the disaster than unfolded. Hindsight is 20/20 but the crew definitely knew they were going down. They just realized it too late and Bonin for some reason never seemed to let the nose pitch down to regain speed.
@@MIAFlyer u left out the fact that the
Captain was partying all nite the nite before with his mistress girlfriend.
If u have a serious job and don’t take it serious.
Accuracy Grade: D+
it wont engage if the aircraft is outside it's normal operating flight envelope.
At least use the virtual cockpit instead of the ugly 2D one. You could've included actual "stall" warning sound from the FSX sim, and also the shudder effect.
Why can't you guys realize that it is the pilots fault,when the pitot tubes froze, the pilot had to do nothing! Just fly the plane but The co pilot Pierre Cedric Bonin just stalled the dam plane. He had to just fly normally!
Yes just fly level... why did he go up??? Wtf!?
💯 % pilot error is to blame for this fatal plane crash.... not Dubois, not Robert, BONIN !!!
100% I wrote
I saw a documentary on this and it is great. You learn that Air France sent out memo's to all the pilots explaining that the pitots tubes can freeze over and they are in the process of being replaced.. So the pilots should have known that they may freeze.. There was no issue at all.. and then because of Bonin the plane stalled and for some reason Bonin is the only pilot ever to not know what to do when a plan goes into a stall.. The plane was functioning as it should with no problems.. Bonin created the problem, then the opposite of what any pilot would do, didnt communicate anything to the other pilots.. This was pilot error 100 percent.. He killed all those people, including his own wife!
Multiple stalls?!
At 6:22, why in the world would the pilot want to pull the nose back up?
It's really inexplicable why he would continue to pull back, when they needed to do the opposite to regain speed and life. Robert realized they needed to pitch the nose forward and Bonin did. They actually were briefly in control of the plane, but Bonin again decided to pull back, even when Robert was pushing forward on his stick, so they were canceling each other out. Because of the positioning of the sticks, adjacent to the seats, Robert couldn't see what Bonin was doing the 2nd time. When Captain Dubois returned, he realized that Bonin was still pulling back, but it was too late.
This potentially offers an explication for what Bonin was thinking.
02:11:03 (Bonin) Je suis en TOGA, hein?
I'm in TOGA, huh?
Bonin's statement here offers a crucial window onto his reasoning. TOGA is an acronym for Take Off, Go Around. When a plane is taking off or aborting a landing-"going around"-it must gain both speed and altitude as efficiently as possible. At this critical phase of flight, pilots are trained to increase engine speed to the TOGA level and raise the nose to a certain pitch angle.
Clearly, here Bonin is trying to achieve the same effect: He wants to increase speed and to climb away from danger. But he is not at sea level; he is in the far thinner air of 37,500 feet. The engines generate less thrust here, and the wings generate less lift. Raising the nose to a certain angle of pitch does not result in the same angle of climb, but far less. Indeed, it can-and will-result in a descent.
While Bonin's behavior is irrational, it is not inexplicable. Intense psychological stress tends to shut down the part of the brain responsible for innovative, creative thought. Instead, we tend to revert to the familiar and the well-rehearsed. Though pilots are required to practice hand-flying their aircraft during all phases of flight as part of recurrent training, in their daily routine they do most of their hand-flying at low altitude-while taking off, landing, and maneuvering. It's not surprising, then, that amid the frightening disorientation of the thunderstorm, Bonin reverted to flying the plane as if it had been close to the ground, even though this response was totally ill-suited to the situation.
HandTigers21 I get the sense that Bonin didn't believe they were stalling at all. He knew they were descending, as he begs the plane to climb, but he doesn't seem to believe the computer's warning that it's caused by a stall; he thinks they're going too fast: "I have the impression we have some crazy speed". But then, I haven't read the entire transcript, just seen the reconstructions, and I'm no expert. He even seems reluctant to stop pulling the nose up (and I'm not sure he believed it was responding and pitching up, either) when the captain says they must. Do you think he ever understood that they were stalling?
optifog You make an interesting point because not once in the transcript is the word "stall" spoken. However the stall warning sounded some 75 times. Bonin essentially resorted to basic logic that "I want to go up so I'm gonna pull up". He let his instincts overrule his brain under pressure. Not to mention the two co-pilots had a definite lack of collaboration. It's never clear from the moment the captain leaves which pilot is the lead pilot and which is the supporting pilot.
Stupid crash
RIP sir Bragança de Orleans
At what point would they still have been able to save the plane? If the captain recognised the problem immediately upon returning would they have been able to save it?
I think you might be able to speculate that had the captain caught the issue at around the moment the co-pilot started to pull the plane up, it could have been saved. It's really hard to comprehend though that no one understood until the last few seconds that the plane was plummeting to the ocean. You would think after the stall warning goes off over 70 times and the plane is shaking and rocking back and forth while falling from the sky at 10,000 feet per minute that someone in the cockpit would've thought to pitch the nose down. After a minute or so as well, all pitot tubes had de-iced. There were so many wrong decisions and inputs that night. Hindsight is 20/20 but a reduction and speed and deciding to apply the speed brakes was a poor choice on Bonin's part.
maybe at about 15000ft
I'm sorry even if the pilot tubes malfunctioned , how incompetent can a pilot be . He started yanking the stick back climbing , even after the damn stall alarm went off . I'm no pilot , and the only planes I fly are the ones on my iPhone , but damnit even I know that if I pull up without giving power the im Gona die in the game . And I don't even get the stall alarm . And even after a stall starts there is still some time before it becomes uncontrollable. The simple answer is that the captain wanted to screw around with his friend which is why he didn't even care to divert the plane away from the storm , he didn't even care that he was handing the charge of the plane to the least experienced pilot , and when he was buzzed to come back in , instead of taking 10 to 20 secs this idiot took almost a minute cause he was screwing behind . Next up is bonin , that idiot deserves to die just for his incompetency . I'm just sad that other had to die cause of his stupidity . I mean once he took charge of the aircraft he bares the most blame of the crash . Robert bares only the responsibility of the fact that when wanted control of the plane back he should have verbalized that to his incompetent partner .
I totally feel you bro. This is some unimaginable mixture of stupidity and incompetence. I would have never believed this if I hadn't read and then saw the reports.
7 years ago
Simulation name?
simulation name?
If only Dubois hadn't left the other two First Officers alone in the cockpit, chances are this terrible tragedy would never have happened. If I was a Captain who regularly flew cross Atlantic and especially through the Intertropical Convergence Zones (ICZ) I'd never leave the cockpit.
It was definitely a bad time to go for a break in the middle of a storm
Even being just a UA-cam commenter and not a pilot...I know better than to lift the nose in a stall...
Many times throughout the few minutes that they were struggling over the Atlantic, Bonin pulled the nose up. What shocks me the most is that even after hearing the stall warning over 70 times blare in the cockpit, the issue was still not corrected until the very end at which point, nothing could save the plane.
So sad that this happened at the hands of gross stupidity... I couldn't imagine how the families feel...
Yep ..Here is a list of stupidities: 1. The Junior most copilot (Rookie) didn't know that you can't keep pulling back on the joystick to climb the aircraft when it is at high altitude. You will stall the aircraft.
2. The other copilot considerably more experienced allowed the junior copilot to continue controlling the aircraft.
3. The captain left the cockpit, knowing that they will be flying into bad weather soon, for a nap, allowing the junior pilot in command of the aircraft.
4. Air France for not adequately training their pilots, the captain on down to the junior copilot.
5. Airbus for designing the joystick controls so poorly that there was no indications or motion/tactile feed back on the joysticks to show what the other joystick and the other pilot is doing.
3:05 clearly a UFo downs the plane LOOK!!!
Overworked flight crew misjudged the weather, height speed the lot and perished RIP les gars de France
Muita turbulência.
That looked like one of the worst/scariest ways to die
Can only hope their was just confusion and not awareness towards the fact that their impending doom was coming.
Why does that Airbus have a Boeing 777 cockpit
haha, shhhhh. I messed up on that detail lol
Doomed by Bonin!
Why do air france employ clowns to fly their planes.
You mean idiots who are so stupid they ignore a stall alarm and pull UP on the nos instead of pushing it down to recover....and regain lift... ironically if bonin had just let go of the stick, the nose would have dropped automatically and the plane would have recovered on its own.
The stall alarm sounded 75 f'ing times and the two bonehead pilots in the cockpit just didn't even acknowledge it. The bonehead captain comes back to the cockpit EVENTUALLY and sits down on the observer seat...and not order one of the pilots to get out of their seats so he can be at the controls. Amazing ...just amazing and appalling.
its confusing when you have wrong speed indication (high speed) and rapid loss of altitude and the stall warning all at the same time . And FYI the A330 can’t be stalled in Normal Law that created more confusion , so the co-pilot decided to trust the wrong speed indicator showing high speed and started to pull up the side-stick .
Its easy to say they must have done this and that when you are sitting at home . But not in a dark stormy night with multiple failures .
Startle effect,night,turbulence,lack of specific training, fear of dying (pilots are human like eveybody else). Its always fun to read how people sitting in their sofas with absolutely zero aviation knowledge would have saved the situation
Rip
PRECISAVAM DE MENINOS PARA POVOAR.PLANETA ESCASSEZ DE VIDA.CONTINUAÇAO DE PLANETA.
impossible to believe that's an trained pilot do that's,my opinion is bonin is suicide on that plane
Captain: what the hell are you guys doing?
Captain: once we get out of this y'all going to some disciplinary actions!
Conclusion: they never made it😢
Sadly :(
My feet are very smelly 🦶😨
Micheal Jackson died on the same month this plane had crashed😢
bellissimo anchio cio il simulatore
1:53 ATC error he said AF-44 not AF-447
Bonin single handedly caused this crash. It is 100% his fault. It's just incomprehensible that he was pitching up the entire time.
not true. the other two pilots were equally clueless and had no idea how to solve the issue. main guy didnt even get back into the seat and just sat at the jumpseat offering slightly better advice. of course bonins constant stick input did the rest lol.
@@ImperialDiecast Because they did not realize that he had been pitching up the entire time. Captain and the other Pilot did realize it, just too late. Bonin initially caused the situation by putting it into a nose high attitude right after the autopilot disconnected. He was just a timebomb waiting to go off. Complete inability to use reason, logic, and training under even the slightest pressure.
Do you think the passengers can feel the stall? Or none of them was actually aware of what was happening?
no they could only feel some vibration (buffeting) but as there were turbulences too, so it was imperceptible...so they could not have any clue (even cabin crew who were experienced)..there was not any acceleration, the plane was in a continuous decent (in physic, a uniform movement)...they felt nothing.
***** no because you need a visual reference to recognize it....and at night when sleeping, pax do not see outside.
I actually heard in an interview a while back that the passengers were able to feel all the turbulence and stall. I remember the guy describing it, he said it must have been the most "horrific" couple of minutes for the passengers.
a lot of people (pax) do not know the difference between stall, turbulence, turns....during a deep stall (441 case) there is no acceleration...as long as there is no acceleration, you can not feel any thing....turbulence and turns, yep there is acceleration, that's why we can feel it. A stall is like being in cruise...except it's going down...
+bugy bug I find it hard to believe this. Anyone that's been on a flight at night can still hear and feel the engine thrust changes and I can always feel when the plane starts its decent. Not to mention the change in pressure would have been noticeable.
poor passengers... nearly 4 mins of hell.. iv a shit bag on planes I hate it. this would have been terrible
777 cockpit?
TeanoZ This was the cockpit that the airplane came with when I downloaded it.
did the passengers know that they are going to crash?
no, unless they were awake, severe turbulence and loud wind noises from the stall
No. But they felt bad turbulence and shuddering for 3-4 minutes before death....
And if they were asleep they were certainly awakened by the turbulence. Everyone on that plane knew something was wrong before it hit the ocean. They all knew. I wish they did not know.... so sad and scary to think about what they went through those final 4 minutes....
The plane was shuddering and vibrating so violently. They felt it and heard it.... without a doubt.
But they did not know they were going to crash....
6:49 ?????
ECAM needs to be smarter.
If I had a Twitter account, I would make the hashtag: #447DumbCrew (I did not own a Twitter account when this comment was posted.)
So sad
Very! It's unfortunate that something so preventable could happen in a matter of just a few minutes.
this video is rong buecase the plane was airbus a340 and that plane have four engien that plane is boeing 777 he have two engien
you are total wrong.... First of all, your english is terrible... sorry, but i have to say.... and second, the Video Editor is right, it was a Airbus A330! and this plane has also 2 engines like the 777... 😉
+Mike Mayr irony in calling out his english skills
Auto correct does this so often... puts in the wrong words... so it's not always bad English
2009
Welcome to rio xD
huh