A good demonstration and fix. Putting the weights on the interior is smart. A good visual is to use a bike stand and rev up the rear wheel. The bike will wobble. But at as the wheel slows, at a certain speed the wobble will increase and then fade as the speed continues to fall. It’s eye opening.
Great idea! I tried on truing stand and found my front tire was 5g out. It occurred to me that the bearing friction was affecting the balance process. I ended up using two steel edges that were parallel and level to roll the hub on. With less friction the 5g turned into 6g and there was a second heavy spot that needed a 2g weight. Today it's nice outside so out for a ride to try them out.
Or like park tool they used bearings without much or any grease inside on each arm with the axle just resting inside the bearings so bearing and axle can rotate freely I am looking at tubular so trying to think how to apply weight inside of rims to keep it aero
Remember to mark your tyre and tube and rim so you know where they were assembled relative to each other (I'm very old-school so have my own way of doing this as force of habit, using the label location). You'd be surprised how much of that imbalance could be from your tyre and tube. I use very light tubes (or tubeless) on my roadies so I don't re-balance after a tube change but I do re-balance after a tyre change. Using GP5000TLs, which last an insane amount of time between punctures, typically, I have taken to putting the weights under the tubeless rim/sealing tape. The edges of lead weights can be burnished to give a decently smooth edge and I have not had one come loose. Small adjustments I do over the spoke holes symmetrically either side of the low mass spot and have used a tiny amount of ADOS F2 on my top wheels to ensure the masses go nowhere (I have custom internal nippled wheels and thus spoke holes in the rim bed). Careful repetition of taping technique with uniform tape is required to make this a really sweet job. I put the wheel with a small seal-less bearing each side (have some old ceramics unlubed with stripped bearing seals that fit on the bump on the end of the axles and rest that in my stand far a final check) Is it worth it? I think so :) Am I obsessive?....maybe...
Thank you so much. Never thought id ever do this myself. Just changed out to a new hub and didn't have to pay a bike mechanic to do it. I'll swap the cup of tea for a cold beer. Cheers.
i have been able to balance my road wheels to within 0.2g imbalance at the braking surface with a pair of 6000 size bearings with a 10mm inner diameter that fits very nicely over the end caps of both front and rear wheels. The bearings and wheel are placed upon the v-groove of a Park Tool truing stand. Bearings are without seals or grease to eliminate as much friction as possible so as to give the greatest level of imbalance sensitivity. The limit of accuracy is within +/-0.1g. Currently, the imbalance grade for my wheels is around a G1.4 @560rpm or 43.5mph speed rating.
Great video! I already balance my bike's wheels and results are excellent. Thanks so much for your practical tips. By far, this is the very best cycling tips channel in You Tube.
When I changed my tyres on my MTB, the balance of the wheel have changed - both were mid-high end tyres. Maybe in road tyres they are more consistent, but I'm sure they are not weighted completly equally.
Krisztián Fekete It seems unlikely anyone could possibly make things out of rubber to the same tolerances as carbon or metal so I am not surprised what you found out. Also isn't rubber a liquid (like glass)? I may be wrong about that part.
oz cycle oh no my friend... I tested with no sealant and there's definitely the usual imbalance/wobble. The sealant, when the tire rotates at speed seems to spread itself around in a way that balances. With no sealant, there's a noticeable wobble. With sealant, perfectly smooth and no wobble. I ended up removing the balancing weights I'd installed as a result. Great job with the vids as always. Love your channel.
I also have tubeless tyres with sealant and found after less than a year the excess fluid had solidified into a ball. Found this out by rotating wheel on bike stand and slamming the brakes on so maybe part of the problem as well as the valve? use less sealant?..all useful info sharing here anyway :)
Little update for ya. You can get wilson strips with tungsten instead of lead. That look exactly like the ones in this video. I use them for my mtb and they work like a champ and no lead.
I have done 4 mtbs and all were tubeless. So always check each wheel as they all turned out to be very different. Some we 10 grams, some were up to 18 grams. Each wheel should be tested one at a time once the wheel is fully setup. If tubeless that means after the sealant has been added and ready to ride.
I saw this elsewhere, but now you're doing it, I'm sold. You're my reference :-). Do you really think plasticine itself on the inner side of the rim, with the push of 8bar tyre, will move around if you spread it out evenly? It's not that we are braking that hard (unless, of course, the bike is freewheeling on a stand). Just wondering. ... of course, the weights attached inside will have a tendency to detach and seek the outside of the tire ... could be dangerous with plasticine. Maybe you could make a tutorial on how to safely take off our hollow aero insets? Always wanted to have a look if they could be transferred to much cheaper of equally good build.
Hello OZ, This is great knowing people like you are promoting the importance of wheel balance. Its hard to believe that three years ago and back no one really gave a S#!t about wheel balance. The way I see it is it will be impossible to create the next generation of the modern wheel with out a easy to use, perfect wheel balance system. But not to worry, I knew this was coming so I created a wheel balance system called dynamicspeedbalance.com that is 100% consumer & OEM friendly. Now anyone can balance their wheels by simply aligning the tire logo to the air valve, and BINGO! They achieve Perfect balance every time. Anyways, enough of plugging my DSB... I do suggest / advise a few things when giving out instructions on how to balance wheels. The biggest problem is to plant the assumption in people's mind that a heavy spot is always located at the air valve, when in fact it is a 50/50 chance the heavy spot is elsewhere. Once you plant that in their head, bad things happen. When ever I discuss wheel balance with people the first thing I say is, "NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING" like thinking that the heavy spot on a wheel is always at the air-valve because it is a 50/50 chance the heavy spot could be located elsewhere other then the air-valve location. If you think about it for a moment when ever you start a conversation with anyone that has looked at trying to balance their bicycle wheels they automatically assume and start talking how they added weight opposite of the air valve, when in fact they actually made things dangerously worse. Most do not know how to check to see if what they did had good balance results, again they just run on pure assumption. I know this because I balance my customer's wheels all day long at my shop here near Seattle WA. 50% of the time when I first check to locate the heavy spot the air valve ends up all over the place, like at the 1 o'clock or 9 o'clock or etc etc position other then at the bottom. When balancing wheels the old fashion way I do agree adding weight inside the rim is best. But it does have its draw backs, when you install a new tire, you will have to rebalance the wheel again. Why? Because tires also have a heavy spot and it could be located in a different position then the old tire you are replacing. Meaning you'll have to go back inside the rim to adjust the weight difference. And if you epoxied the weights, that could be a problem. I always suggest adding and taping the weights on the side. What I do is take the same lead golf head weights you use, and hammer them flat thin. Then I use Gorilla Duct tape and tape them flat on the side of the rim (just above the braking surface, unless its a disc wheel). Of course you clean the area to be taped with alcohol. I've never had a weight fly off using this method and its flat and very aerodynamic. The good thing about this method is you can easily fine tune your balance, and or make a total balance change when putting on a new tire. OZ please, do not think I'm talking down at you in anyway, I think what you are doing educating riders is absolutely 100% Marvelous! Unlike me, at least you take the time to have an OZ UA-cam channel, keep up the great work. Sincerely Dan
Hi, I just wanted to correct one thing here, if you use a glued on tubular. When you use the "blu-tac" method to workout how much weight to add to the wheel, you should place the blue-tac at the point where you will be adding the little strips of lead. Don't put the blu-tac on the wheel rim. This will give a slightly incorrect counter-weight amount. You place the lead strips on the carbon between where the spokes come out. Really press the lead into place and curve it so it sticks to the carbon properly. I have yet to see any of mine come off.
Niiiice! I was wondering how u were going to stick the weights on. Putting them inside between the brake tracks is genius. I saw Shane Miller's vid last year about wheel balancing and he put the weights on the outside, which i did. Putting them inside now. Great hack!
thank you sir for the brilliant ideas and elaborated demonstration. any ideas how to perform this on wheels with tubeless tires and sealing fluid? the problem is fluid is dynamic stuff causing unbalanced wheels at high speed. will diluted sealing fluid reduces sealant accumulation at one side and remove unbalancing?
Okay, according to my calculations, the 9 imbalance will cause a 1.7kg centrifugal force at 90km/h. Now what that means I don't know, is it nothing significant? Or significant? I've done plenty of 90+km/h runs downhill on unbalanced wheels. To be honest I noticed the road surface undulations, not wheel imbalance, but am thinking of trying it anyway. Mostly because I'm more concerned that it affects rolling speed rather than handling, maybe there is a 1 or 2 km/h gain at 60 km/h??? The calculation shows a 190 gram centrifugal acceleration caused by the imbalance, I assume this means 190grams of force in deceleration at 90km/h. Doesn't sound like much, half a watt? Haha. But maybe I don't understand it correctly?
Hello B JPitt, Here is a critical detail people fail to "understand"... That tiny, innocent 9 grams of unbalance on a bicycle wheel or any wheel is like a tiny spark in a dry field of grass, next to a dry forest. If you allow that tiny innocent spark to ignite the dry grass, it will then advance and burn down a forest, a city or both. Here is the comparison;PROBLEM STAGE ONE:At speed (o/a 20 ~ 25 mph), those innocent 9 grams of off balance starts to invite the weight of outer perimeter of the wheel to start oscillating (ie the spark that starts the grass fire). So its no longer the 9 grams causing the off balance but it has now invited the outer perimeter weight of the tire tube & rim to start oscillating. PROBLEM STAGE TWO:At high speed (o/a 35 ~ 50 mph +), now the outer perimeter oscillation weight starts to invite the entire weight of the wheel, from the axle to the outer perimeter to start to oscillate violently, creating incredible and very powerful forces, that as speeds increase the wheel literally wants to tear its self off its axle mount!PROBLEM STAGE THREE:Now the bicycle is going as fast as it can descending a mountain road. Depending on sheer luck some wheels are accidently well balanced and some are more un balanced then others (all because the bicycle industry has not implemented a technical balance system). That said here is where the S#!T Hits The Fan. But because the evolution of bicycle is designed to absorb vibrations the rider will not easily notice the violent oscillation forces happening below them. If the wheels are fairly out of balance the first sign a rider will notice is the bicycle will start to handle nervously. As speed increases here is where things get crazy dangerous because now you have a front and rear wheel oscillating violently and momentarily the front & rear oscillations synchronize and its then that a bicycle will go into an uncontrollable wobble / shimmy.SOLUTION STAGE ONE:Balance the complete assembled wheel to cancel the 9 grams or any of off balance from your wheels and all the Problem Stages you see above, simply disappear! CONCLUSION:The folks that make technical calculations only focus on the 9 grams spinning at high speed, so of course the results are puzzling because the 9 grams alone can not really cause enough forces to cause the problems encountered by riders at high speed. This only creates dismissiveness by the entire high end wheel industry to implement a balance system. All because they fail to take into account how those 9 grams of oscillating weight invites the entire weight of the wheel to oscillate. Keep in mind the average high end front wheel weighs 1.2 lbs and rear 1.5 lbs. Now imagine if your crazy expensive carbon wheels by luck happen to be fairly unbalanced you now have a 1.2 and a 1.5 sledge hammer swinging from your axles as you descend a mountain road at full speed.FYI: I found from balancing hundreds if high end carbon wheels (Fully assembled with tire tube/or dry with tubeless air valve), that most are out of balance by as little as 4 grams to over 40 grams the average being 17 grams (weight of a full size wheel reflector)! One very popular brand in particular is notoriously always off balance on average of 15 grams just the wheel alone! I often want to call out this brand simply because they are dangerous to riders at high speed which weighs heavy on my conscience.Please keep pushing the industry to implement a balance system, if not only for higher performance but Rider Safety.SincerelyDan Sotelo
Absolutely love the videos! So informative. I have a 30 gram imbalance in a set of tubeless wheels (sealed rim beds). Am considering mixing tungsten powder in with epoxy and pouring that through a spoke hole into the hollow part of the rim to balance it. Seems like a high risk solution, but do you think it could work?
oz cycle exactly. Remove the (hopefully correct) spoke. Shake the nipple out of the valve hole. Weight out the epoxy mix and suck it into a syringe. Carefully squirt epoxy mix into spoke hole. Leave to dry in correct orientation. Find a way to reposition spoke nipple (lots of swearing). Reinstall spoke.
Ok. With sealed rim bed its best not to loose nipple in rim. Remove spoke with nipple at 12oclock. Take spoke out of hub and screw it back into nipple. Push up nipple with spoke to insert glue. Try not get glue on nipple or it will stop future adjustments
hmm.....if you put the tire on the right way (so the text is ligned up alont the valve every time) you will also be able to ballance th eweight of the tire.....when you just put it on teh weight of the tire kan mess the ballance off...
Dear oz cycle, I have just done what you show in this video... I used similar lead pieces (2g each), which I bought cheaply on AliExpress. Cannot wait for the first ride! FYI: I had to correct my work on both wheels - I applied too heavy counter weights, probably because I glued the temporary weights too close to the center.
oz cycle Thanks Peter - hope you’ll do one soon, it’s great learning from you, something that most of us can do easily enough, without a trueing stand. Would be great to see your method and explanation- hope you’ll get time to do one soon!!
The problem is when you replace inner tube, you’ll need to rebalance your wheels. I don’t know why but every time I put a new one, heaviest point of the wheel relocates. Not patched, new tube with same valve length and same producer as previous. This is strange 🤔
Fit tube to rim and put couple pumps of air in to hold it to the rim. Balance the wheel with weights required. Refit tyre and check balance. Mark on tyre the spot which us heavier. Remove any added weights. Reposition tyre so that heaviest spot is opposite valve. Rebalance wheel again. Done. Keep mark on tyre so you know where to position tyre when refitting. Unfortunately you will need to do this with each new tyre.
@@stevenleffanue I've made the same thing, found the heavier spot of the tyre and repositioned it to balance the valve weight. All done and the wheel assy is now balanced without adding extra weights!!! Great vids, keep up the good work!
Hi can i balance wheel insted of 1 point to distribute the weight across the rim cant fit all the lead on one spot want to do it inside the rim thanx mate
@@stevenleffanue Awesome, Thanks. Been using your Chain Waxing and the wax in bottle solution for a while now on road and track bike! love your work :-)
Hello Pablo,I don't know how to write in Spanish but I can help you. All you need to do is find a roll of 1/4" fishing lead weight, a hammer and scissors and you can make your own flat weights as thin as you want and use your scissors to cut into any shape.
Hi. Thanks for ll your video's. I have a question: what about the rear wheel? Since it doesn't run free like the front wheel, it seems to me it's rather complicated to use the same method. Can't you do a wheel balance vid about that too?
Hello Arjen, The solution to make your rear & frt wheels spin easily to help you find the heavy spot is to hang your wheel on your quick release-QR skewer. Just remove your QR, and remove the springs. Then insert your skewer back into your axle and hang your wheel on the wheel stand by the skewer its self. Open the truing stand so the ends of your axle do not tough the wheel work stand, and you wheel will spin free and easy.
My problem is as follows. I balance the wheel perfectly by placing the weight on the outside of rim up by where the rim meets the tire. Then, when I put the weights in the rim like in the video, the wheel won't be balanced. It'll be off again. I was sure to line up the tire both times the same way. I'm betting that the weight being moved from position just a few mm throws it off again. Any suggestions?
Wheel balancing only becomes effective at speeds over 50mph in terms of stability. So for a couple of % of your ride, you just added 20g of weight in rotational mass (unsprung mass on mtb) that's the worst possible place to add weight, as it gets multiplied exponentially with centrifugal force. The marginal improvement in stability at high speeds isn't worth the weight penalty for the other 95% of your ride. Which is why many pro teams don't balance bicycle wheels.
Oh Adam Shamieh, If you only knew what really goes on with unbalanced wheels (especially carbon wheels), at high speed, you would never again leave home on a ride unless they were perfectly balanced. Its like aerodynamics, you don't physically feel the advantages at the moment you are riding, but the results are going on below you allowing you to cover a distance much easier and faster then with a bike and or wheels that are not very aerodynamic. Same thing with unbalanced or balanced wheels, you will not feel it when riding but the difference in performance are there, when riding the same distance with or with out balance. Also, in our test we discovered why unbalanced wheels cause the dreaded "High Speed Wobble". We found that by sheer luck some wheels are not so out of balance, but some are so severely out of balance that at high speed the wheels literally start to flex and wobble! Check out this video ua-cam.com/video/QC-PuBDFNac/v-deo.html and fast forward to 1:10 min and look at the bottom of the wheels, and they even show it in Slow Motion. I know it has fenders but look carefully at the bottom of the wheels... YUP, they are flexing and wobbling..! To learn how that happens check out my website dynamicspeedbalance.com and click on "HOW DSB WORKS". There you will see the first scientific tests ever done showing what really happens with carbon wheels at high speed, when Unbalanced and Balanced. Its shocking to say the least. A lot of people like your self think, even if my wheels are a little out of balance, its OK cause once I put my weight on the bike, it all gets canceled. When in fact, when you put your weight on the bike it actually makes things worse. You have to remember when a wheel is out of balance, it creates very powerful oscillation energy forces, and as we all know, energy has to go some where, it just does not disappear by magic. Again check out my website, dynamicspeedbalance.com Balancing wheels not only make your bike roll a lot more efficient, but makes your bike feel like its on rails at high speed. Sincerely Dan Sotelo Dynamic Speed Balance
I thought that too, but then I realized that the spokes are there to prevent this deformation of the wheel and bring it back to near circle. That is why you don't need e.g. 4 weights to "help" your wheel from going oval. But it's a funny joke, nonetheless ;-)
@@stevenleffanue it's worth the pilgrimage to enjoy the mountain bike and fat bike extravaganza, along with wine if you're into that sort of thing. I really enjoy Cobbler Creek mountain bike park too for something closer.
oz cycle very cool. I might buy some of those next time. I have an almost solid black bike and I bet those would really stand out. On a side note, my front wheel actually settles with the valve in the 1:00 position, oddly enough. My rear wheel is off being repaired right now but I will be keen to see where it balances when I get it back. Lastly I just want to say I really like your videos. You crack me up sometimes but I always learn something. Thanks for making great videos.
Yeh red tyres will definitely stand out on a stealthy black bike Daniel. Unusual that the valve settles at 1oclock?? ...something is heavy at an odd spot. Glad your liking the vids too 😁
Bill Cut that’s the way to do it!! Just to add, If you rims don’t have tape and/or are tubeless , cover the weights with a layer of electrical tape wrapped all the way around to ensure they do not move. Join the tape opposite the weights or over lap at the valve.
Out of balance wheels are pretty much a non-issue. This video explains it pretty well: ua-cam.com/video/FubJV2N9dyY/v-deo.html Small differences felt off the bike do not always translate to differences felt on the bike.
oz cycle True. Not always sure if the pro argument holds that much weight but i do not see any pro teams doing the whole wheel balancing thing. Eventhough they push their bikes to the limits on the descents. Well only way to really know is to try. Really enjoying your videos and your DIY approach btw!
Great vid, and great idea, thanks! However, you've got the advantage on your Yoeleo wheels of having no spoke holes in the rim, and therefore no rim tape. Most wheels would have to have the weights placed either side of spoke holes (having removed the rim tape first). Can you do a vid on how to remove rim tape without breaking it? :-)
Glad you like the vid Andrew. You can stick the weights to the rim underneath the rim tape. Most rim tapes can be removed or lifted to fit the weights. If not, use a new rim tape.
MrFornicater You don't have to really. I wouldn't put the weights in the tire anyway so no need to. Shane Miller did a video on this a year or 2 ago that this guys copied basically but he put the weights on the outside of the rim.
Mate your vids are excellent. Keep up the great work I’ve learnt loads off you bud. Massive kudos.
Been riding the last 50 years , still learning more about my wheels . Thanks
Mount balancing lead inside - that is neat. Very well explained and looks easy. Great to see some riding during the video
A good demonstration and fix. Putting the weights on the interior is smart. A good visual is to use a bike stand and rev up the rear wheel. The bike will wobble. But at as the wheel slows, at a certain speed the wobble will increase and then fade as the speed continues to fall. It’s eye opening.
Thank You For This Video. have been trying to for weeks to stop this hoping . followed your Video and it worked great 👍 thanks
Great idea! I tried on truing stand and found my front tire was 5g out. It occurred to me that the bearing friction was affecting the balance process. I ended up using two steel edges that were parallel and level to roll the hub on. With less friction the 5g turned into 6g and there was a second heavy spot that needed a 2g weight. Today it's nice outside so out for a ride to try them out.
Or like park tool they used bearings without much or any grease inside on each arm with the axle just resting inside the bearings so bearing and axle can rotate freely
I am looking at tubular so trying to think how to apply weight inside of rims to keep it aero
Remember to mark your tyre and tube and rim so you know where they were assembled relative to each other (I'm very old-school so have my own way of doing this as force of habit, using the label location). You'd be surprised how much of that imbalance could be from your tyre and tube. I use very light tubes (or tubeless) on my roadies so I don't re-balance after a tube change but I do re-balance after a tyre change. Using GP5000TLs, which last an insane amount of time between punctures, typically, I have taken to putting the weights under the tubeless rim/sealing tape. The edges of lead weights can be burnished to give a decently smooth edge and I have not had one come loose. Small adjustments I do over the spoke holes symmetrically either side of the low mass spot and have used a tiny amount of ADOS F2 on my top wheels to ensure the masses go nowhere (I have custom internal nippled wheels and thus spoke holes in the rim bed). Careful repetition of taping technique with uniform tape is required to make this a really sweet job. I put the wheel with a small seal-less bearing each side (have some old ceramics unlubed with stripped bearing seals that fit on the bump on the end of the axles and rest that in my stand far a final check) Is it worth it? I think so :) Am I obsessive?....maybe...
Thank you so much. Never thought id ever do this myself. Just changed out to a new hub and didn't have to pay a bike mechanic to do it. I'll swap the cup of tea for a cold beer. Cheers.
You've got some glorious looking roads/descents over there in Oz!
...I've also seen this done with crimp on fishing weights on the spokes...
I have speed wobbles at 47km/h. Need to check out where my speed sensor magnet is and do a full balance. Thanks for the video Steve 👍
i have been able to balance my road wheels to within 0.2g imbalance at the braking surface with a pair of 6000 size bearings with a 10mm inner diameter that fits very nicely over the end caps of both front and rear wheels. The bearings and wheel are placed upon the v-groove of a Park Tool truing stand. Bearings are without seals or grease to eliminate as much friction as possible so as to give the greatest level of imbalance sensitivity. The limit of accuracy is within +/-0.1g. Currently, the imbalance grade for my wheels is around a G1.4 @560rpm or 43.5mph speed rating.
Thanks for total the information that it offers us, you have very good ideas
Great video! I already balance my bike's wheels and results are excellent. Thanks so much for your practical tips. By far, this is the very best cycling tips channel in You Tube.
Nice youve got your wheels balanced and glad you like the vids Braulio 😁
Does anyone notice the more expensive the bike the more issues . I'm very happy with my Caad 8 .
Also a note, there isn't much point in balancing tubeless wheels as the sealant sloshing around in the tire causes inconsistencies
Good tutorial, one thing, you should have marked the tyre position as well, just in case, if it's not fully balanced
Glad you like the vid Krisztian. Im pretty sure all tyres are equally weighted around their circumference??
When I changed my tyres on my MTB, the balance of the wheel have changed - both were mid-high end tyres. Maybe in road tyres they are more consistent, but I'm sure they are not weighted completly equally.
Krisztián Fekete
It seems unlikely anyone could possibly make things out of rubber to the same tolerances as carbon or metal so I am not surprised what you found out. Also isn't rubber a liquid (like glass)? I may be wrong about that part.
Rest assure,any imbalances due to maleability if a tyre would be miniscule Im sure.
I looked into this awhile back and found that running my wheels as a tubeless setup with sealant balances the wheels. The sealant acts as a balancer.
Mmmm. Interesting. Often cheap tyres are unbalanced too so you may just have a balanced tyre on a balanced wheel already. Good news for you.
oz cycle oh no my friend... I tested with no sealant and there's definitely the usual imbalance/wobble. The sealant, when the tire rotates at speed seems to spread itself around in a way that balances. With no sealant, there's a noticeable wobble. With sealant, perfectly smooth and no wobble. I ended up removing the balancing weights I'd installed as a result. Great job with the vids as always. Love your channel.
I also have tubeless tyres with sealant and found after less than a year the excess fluid had solidified into a ball. Found this out by rotating wheel on bike stand and slamming the brakes on so maybe part of the problem as well as the valve? use less sealant?..all useful info sharing here anyway :)
@@peternicholls6532 removing the solidified latex, what some lovingly call Stanimals 😁, when refilling sealant is an easy fix.
@@Davepool_TF-69 True :)
Little update for ya. You can get wilson strips with tungsten instead of lead. That look exactly like the ones in this video. I use them for my mtb and they work like a champ and no lead.
Tungsten will require more weights...more chance for one to come loose.
Go with the lead weights. Just don't eat the lead weight and you should be OK.
I have done 4 mtbs and all were tubeless. So always check each wheel as they all turned out to be very different. Some we 10 grams, some were up to 18 grams. Each wheel should be tested one at a time once the wheel is fully setup.
If tubeless that means after the sealant has been added and ready to ride.
Should i try to find the balance without the sealant!?
I saw this elsewhere, but now you're doing it, I'm sold. You're my reference :-). Do you really think plasticine itself on the inner side of the rim, with the push of 8bar tyre, will move around if you spread it out evenly? It's not that we are braking that hard (unless, of course, the bike is freewheeling on a stand). Just wondering. ... of course, the weights attached inside will have a tendency to detach and seek the outside of the tire ... could be dangerous with plasticine. Maybe you could make a tutorial on how to safely take off our hollow aero insets? Always wanted to have a look if they could be transferred to much cheaper of equally good build.
Hello OZ, This is great knowing people like you are promoting the importance of wheel balance. Its hard to believe that three years ago and back no one really gave a S#!t about wheel balance. The way I see it is it will be impossible to create the next generation of the modern wheel with out a easy to use, perfect wheel balance system. But not to worry, I knew this was coming so I created a wheel balance system called dynamicspeedbalance.com that is 100% consumer & OEM friendly. Now anyone can balance their wheels by simply aligning the tire logo to the air valve, and BINGO! They achieve Perfect balance every time.
Anyways, enough of plugging my DSB...
I do suggest / advise a few things when giving out instructions on how to balance wheels. The biggest problem is to plant the assumption in people's mind that a heavy spot is always located at the air valve, when in fact it is a 50/50 chance the heavy spot is elsewhere.
Once you plant that in their head, bad things happen.
When ever I discuss wheel balance with people the first thing I say is, "NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING" like thinking that the heavy spot on a wheel is always at the air-valve because it is a 50/50 chance the heavy spot could be located elsewhere other then the air-valve location.
If you think about it for a moment when ever you start a conversation with anyone that has looked at trying to balance their bicycle wheels they automatically assume and start talking how they added weight opposite of the air valve, when in fact they actually made things dangerously worse.
Most do not know how to check to see if what they did had good balance results, again they just run on pure assumption.
I know this because I balance my customer's wheels all day long at my shop here near Seattle WA. 50% of the time when I first check to locate the heavy spot the air valve ends up all over the place, like at the 1 o'clock or 9 o'clock or etc etc position other then at the bottom.
When balancing wheels the old fashion way I do agree adding weight inside the rim is best. But it does have its draw backs, when you install a new tire, you will have to rebalance the wheel again. Why? Because tires also have a heavy spot and it could be located in a different position then the old tire you are replacing. Meaning you'll have to go back inside the rim to adjust the weight difference. And if you epoxied the weights, that could be a problem. I always suggest adding and taping the weights on the side.
What I do is take the same lead golf head weights you use, and hammer them flat thin. Then I use Gorilla Duct tape and tape them flat on the side of the rim (just above the braking surface, unless its a disc wheel). Of course you clean the area to be taped with alcohol. I've never had a weight fly off using this method and its flat and very aerodynamic.
The good thing about this method is you can easily fine tune your balance, and or make a total balance change when putting on a new tire.
OZ please, do not think I'm talking down at you in anyway, I think what you are doing educating riders is absolutely 100% Marvelous! Unlike me, at least you take the time to have an OZ UA-cam channel, keep up the great work.
Sincerely
Dan
Hi, I just wanted to correct one thing here, if you use a glued on tubular. When you use the "blu-tac" method to workout how much weight to add to the wheel, you should place the blue-tac at the point where you will be adding the little strips of lead. Don't put the blu-tac on the wheel rim. This will give a slightly incorrect counter-weight amount.
You place the lead strips on the carbon between where the spokes come out. Really press the lead into place and curve it so it sticks to the carbon properly. I have yet to see any of mine come off.
Damn impressive! Thanks for posting.
Great stuff, can't wait to do this.
This guy is straight money. Love your channel and yes you do look like Henry Rollins 😀
Great video. Also do weigh the lead weights to correspond with the plasticine! Sometimes they are more than 3 grams each!
And I always thought bike wobble was from the Tyre itself! learned something new here! subscribed .
Niiiice! I was wondering how u were going to stick the weights on. Putting them inside between the brake tracks is genius. I saw Shane Miller's vid last year about wheel balancing and he put the weights on the outside, which i did. Putting them inside now. Great hack!
thank you sir for the brilliant ideas and elaborated demonstration. any ideas how to perform this on wheels with tubeless tires and sealing fluid? the problem is fluid is dynamic stuff causing unbalanced wheels at high speed. will diluted sealing fluid reduces sealant accumulation at one side and remove unbalancing?
Will be ordering the weights. Thank you.
Great contest as always!
thank you for this information 😘🌹
For tubless or even clinchers put the weights under the rim tape & that'll solve any issues with them coming unstuck
I am riding tubeless tyres on my MTB an I found them perfectly balanced afterusing sealent.
Brilliant way of balancing a wheel, much neater than Shane millers way. Keep em coming. Atb
Hi, How to check the alignment between the rear and the front wheel?
Do you have any video about it?
Thank you
No I havnt. It would be either wheel dishing or frame alignment.
Nicely done
Nice Video, thank you for that!
One question: What method would you recommand for a tubeless setup, when using a rim with spoke wholes and rimtape?
Fantastic idea!
Okay, according to my calculations, the 9 imbalance will cause a 1.7kg centrifugal force at 90km/h. Now what that means I don't know, is it nothing significant? Or significant?
I've done plenty of 90+km/h runs downhill on unbalanced wheels. To be honest I noticed the road surface undulations, not wheel imbalance, but am thinking of trying it anyway. Mostly because I'm more concerned that it affects rolling speed rather than handling, maybe there is a 1 or 2 km/h gain at 60 km/h??? The calculation shows a 190 gram centrifugal acceleration caused by the imbalance, I assume this means 190grams of force in deceleration at 90km/h. Doesn't sound like much, half a watt? Haha. But maybe I don't understand it correctly?
Hello B JPitt, Here is a critical detail people fail to "understand"... That tiny, innocent 9 grams of unbalance on a bicycle wheel or any wheel is like a tiny spark in a dry field of grass, next to a dry forest. If you allow that tiny innocent spark to ignite the dry grass, it will then advance and burn down a forest, a city or both. Here is the comparison;PROBLEM STAGE ONE:At speed (o/a 20 ~ 25 mph), those innocent 9 grams of off balance starts to invite the weight of outer perimeter of the wheel to start oscillating (ie the spark that starts the grass fire). So its no longer the 9 grams causing the off balance but it has now invited the outer perimeter weight of the tire tube & rim to start oscillating. PROBLEM STAGE TWO:At high speed (o/a 35 ~ 50 mph +), now the outer perimeter oscillation weight starts to invite the entire weight of the wheel, from the axle to the outer perimeter to start to oscillate violently, creating incredible and very powerful forces, that as speeds increase the wheel literally wants to tear its self off its axle mount!PROBLEM STAGE THREE:Now the bicycle is going as fast as it can descending a mountain road. Depending on sheer luck some wheels are accidently well balanced and some are more un balanced then others (all because the bicycle industry has not implemented a technical balance system). That said here is where the S#!T Hits The Fan. But because the evolution of bicycle is designed to absorb vibrations the rider will not easily notice the violent oscillation forces happening below them. If the wheels are fairly out of balance the first sign a rider will notice is the bicycle will start to handle nervously. As speed increases here is where things get crazy dangerous because now you have a front and rear wheel oscillating violently and momentarily the front & rear oscillations synchronize and its then that a bicycle will go into an uncontrollable wobble / shimmy.SOLUTION STAGE ONE:Balance the complete assembled wheel to cancel the 9 grams or any of off balance from your wheels and all the Problem Stages you see above, simply disappear! CONCLUSION:The folks that make technical calculations only focus on the 9 grams spinning at high speed, so of course the results are puzzling because the 9 grams alone can not really cause enough forces to cause the problems encountered by riders at high speed. This only creates dismissiveness by the entire high end wheel industry to implement a balance system. All because they fail to take into account how those 9 grams of oscillating weight invites the entire weight of the wheel to oscillate. Keep in mind the average high end front wheel weighs 1.2 lbs and rear 1.5 lbs. Now imagine if your crazy expensive carbon wheels by luck happen to be fairly unbalanced you now have a 1.2 and a 1.5 sledge hammer swinging from your axles as you descend a mountain road at full speed.FYI: I found from balancing hundreds if high end carbon wheels (Fully assembled with tire tube/or dry with tubeless air valve), that most are out of balance by as little as 4 grams to over 40 grams the average being 17 grams (weight of a full size wheel reflector)! One very popular brand in particular is notoriously always off balance on average of 15 grams just the wheel alone! I often want to call out this brand simply because they are dangerous to riders at high speed which weighs heavy on my conscience.Please keep pushing the industry to implement a balance system, if not only for higher performance but Rider Safety.SincerelyDan Sotelo
Great tutorial thanks
Genius!
Excellent idea
Thanks mate, I never thought of this one. Nice!!! 👍
Epic descent btw.
Thanx. Yeah,theres a fine line between have fun with adrenalin rush verses danger 😁
Brilliant hack
I might do that on hibrid bike excellent idea 💡
No need for epoxy, the adesive on the weights is more than strong enough when applied to a clean rim.
Sic vid you the go to man!
Absolutely love the videos! So informative. I have a 30 gram imbalance in a set of tubeless wheels (sealed rim beds). Am considering mixing tungsten powder in with epoxy and pouring that through a spoke hole into the hollow part of the rim to balance it. Seems like a high risk solution, but do you think it could work?
So thst means you need to remove spoke nipple to insert glue?
oz cycle exactly. Remove the (hopefully correct) spoke. Shake the nipple out of the valve hole. Weight out the epoxy mix and suck it into a syringe. Carefully squirt epoxy mix into spoke hole. Leave to dry in correct orientation. Find a way to reposition spoke nipple (lots of swearing). Reinstall spoke.
Ok. With sealed rim bed its best not to loose nipple in rim. Remove spoke with nipple at 12oclock. Take spoke out of hub and screw it back into nipple. Push up nipple with spoke to insert glue. Try not get glue on nipple or it will stop future adjustments
What if I'm using tubular wheels? Can I also stick the lead weights on the rim if I'm using glue tape? Would it cause the tyre to have a bump?
hmm.....if you put the tire on the right way (so the text is ligned up alont the valve every time) you will also be able to ballance th eweight of the tire.....when you just put it on teh weight of the tire kan mess the ballance off...
Great video! Thanks! Aren't you concerned that the weights' edges will rub the inner tube, and potentially damage it, resulting in flat tyre?
No,they edges are smooth and lead conforms to the shape of the rim which is even less impact on tube shape.
Dear oz cycle, I have just done what you show in this video... I used similar lead pieces (2g each), which I bought cheaply on AliExpress. Cannot wait for the first ride! FYI: I had to correct my work on both wheels - I applied too heavy counter weights, probably because I glued the temporary weights too close to the center.
Sounds like you know what your doing 😎
Peter, Your vids are the best!! I can’t find your Wheel Truing one though, can you help?
Havnt done the truing vid yet
oz cycle Thanks Peter - hope you’ll do one soon, it’s great learning from you, something that most of us can do easily enough, without a trueing stand. Would be great to see your method and explanation- hope you’ll get time to do one soon!!
The problem is when you replace inner tube, you’ll need to rebalance your wheels. I don’t know why but every time I put a new one, heaviest point of the wheel relocates. Not patched, new tube with same valve length and same producer as previous. This is strange 🤔
The tyre must be heavier at one spot. Maybe consider a different tyre next purchase.
oz cycle
4 different tyres used. Same thing happened. Conti Gatorskin/Grandsport, Michelin Lition III, Vittoria Rubino Pro.
Fit tube to rim and put couple pumps of air in to hold it to the rim. Balance the wheel with weights required. Refit tyre and check balance. Mark on tyre the spot which us heavier. Remove any added weights. Reposition tyre so that heaviest spot is opposite valve. Rebalance wheel again. Done. Keep mark on tyre so you know where to position tyre when refitting.
Unfortunately you will need to do this with each new tyre.
@@stevenleffanue I've made the same thing, found the heavier spot of the tyre and repositioned it to balance the valve weight. All done and the wheel assy is now balanced without adding extra weights!!! Great vids, keep up the good work!
My wheels go wabble wabble wabble :P
WOW, that's great!
Hi can i balance wheel insted of 1 point to distribute the weight across the rim cant fit all the lead on one spot want to do it inside the rim thanx mate
Yes, shouldnt need too much counterweight tho
hi, can you please give me a link to get the wheel weights you use in this video? cannot find for love nor money in NZ
www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-Adhesive-Lead-Tape-Strips-Add-Power-Weight-to-GOLF-CLUB-Tennis-Racket-/202781555854?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286
@@stevenleffanue Awesome, Thanks. Been using your Chain Waxing and the wax in bottle solution for a while now on road and track bike! love your work :-)
Put some building adhesive sealant inside carbon rims, 10-15 gramm is enough for ideal balancing/
Thats a good idea....it shouldn't come off.
Love it, I’m doing that! 👍
Excelente vídeo consulta esas bandas que colocaste en el Rin como se llaman o donde se consiguen gracias saludos desde Argentina
Son contrapesos para palos de golf. Lo puedes comprar en eBay o una tienda de equipo de golf
Thanx Pablo. Cheers from Australia 😎
Hello Pablo,I don't know how to write in Spanish but I can help you. All you need to do is find a roll of 1/4" fishing lead weight, a hammer and scissors and you can make your own flat weights as thin as you want and use your scissors to cut into any shape.
Hi. Thanks for ll your video's. I have a question: what about the rear wheel? Since it doesn't run free like the front wheel, it seems to me it's rather complicated to use the same method. Can't you do a wheel balance vid about that too?
Same balancing technique applies to the resr wheel Arjen.
@@stevenleffanue Oké, I'll give it try then (as soon as I get those lead stickers from amazon. Muchas thanks for the reply.
Hello Arjen, The solution to make your rear & frt wheels spin easily to help you find the heavy spot is to hang your wheel on your quick release-QR skewer. Just remove your QR, and remove the springs. Then insert your skewer back into your axle and hang your wheel on the wheel stand by the skewer its self. Open the truing stand so the ends of your axle do not tough the wheel work stand, and you wheel will spin free and easy.
My problem is as follows. I balance the wheel perfectly by placing the weight on the outside of rim up by where the rim meets the tire. Then, when I put the weights in the rim like in the video, the wheel won't be balanced. It'll be off again. I was sure to line up the tire both times the same way. I'm betting that the weight being moved from position just a few mm throws it off again. Any suggestions?
Did you slide the tyre around on the rim to a different position?
thanks!
Would adding a few bb's keep it balanced?
great info..this is first time i hear balancing wheel on bicycle.. how fast the speed to say balancing is must have instead of nice to have?
Id say 80km/hr+
Genial!
Wheel balancing only becomes effective at speeds over 50mph in terms of stability.
So for a couple of % of your ride, you just added 20g of weight in rotational mass (unsprung mass on mtb) that's the worst possible place to add weight, as it gets multiplied exponentially with centrifugal force.
The marginal improvement in stability at high speeds isn't worth the weight penalty for the other 95% of your ride.
Which is why many pro teams don't balance bicycle wheels.
wheels don’t really need to be balanced and don’t cause speed wobbles
Oh Adam Shamieh, If you only knew what really goes on with unbalanced wheels (especially carbon wheels), at high speed, you would never again leave home on a ride unless they were perfectly balanced. Its like aerodynamics, you don't physically feel the advantages at the moment you are riding, but the results are going on below you allowing you to cover a distance much easier and faster then with a bike and or wheels that are not very aerodynamic.
Same thing with unbalanced or balanced wheels, you will not feel it when riding but the difference in performance are there, when riding the same distance with or with out balance.
Also, in our test we discovered why unbalanced wheels cause the dreaded "High Speed Wobble". We found that by sheer luck some wheels are not so out of balance, but some are so severely out of balance that at high speed the wheels literally start to flex and wobble! Check out this video ua-cam.com/video/QC-PuBDFNac/v-deo.html and fast forward to 1:10 min and look at the bottom of the wheels, and they even show it in Slow Motion. I know it has fenders but look carefully at the bottom of the wheels... YUP, they are flexing and wobbling..!
To learn how that happens check out my website dynamicspeedbalance.com and click on "HOW DSB WORKS". There you will see the first scientific tests ever done showing what really happens with carbon wheels at high speed, when Unbalanced and Balanced. Its shocking to say the least.
A lot of people like your self think, even if my wheels are a little out of balance, its OK cause once I put my weight on the bike, it all gets canceled. When in fact, when you put your weight on the bike it actually makes things worse. You have to remember when a wheel is out of balance, it creates very powerful oscillation energy forces, and as we all know, energy has to go some where, it just does not disappear by magic.
Again check out my website, dynamicspeedbalance.com Balancing wheels not only make your bike roll a lot more efficient, but makes your bike feel like its on rails at high speed.
Sincerely
Dan Sotelo
Dynamic Speed Balance
You were just shown! At high speed id does cause problems. e=m*v2, so I wont balance a MTB, but a road bike? yes.
Well got this problem with my Oval C40.....and the bike shop didn't know what to do...
I thought that too, but then I realized that the spokes are there to prevent this deformation of the wheel and bring it back to near circle. That is why you don't need e.g. 4 weights to "help" your wheel from going oval. But it's a funny joke, nonetheless ;-)
@@geertmeersseman3111 Those motorcycle balance their wheels?
I have found this "Nazca Wheel Balancer". Does anybody know where to buy it?
I got normal cinder rims with rim should I take off the the rim tape put the adhesive strip direct on the rim or on the rim tape?
If there are spoke nipple access holes in your rim you need to cover them with a rim tape.
@@stevenleffanue thanks
Disc wheels, balance with the discs on?
Yes
Ottimo lavoro :D
Wow, you guys where flying at the beginning of this vid. Any idea on how fast you where going?
On average down those roads we do 75km/hr
oz cycle Have you ever been up North to Melrose for a spin?
Not me,no. A few of the guys in our bunch have....they say its great mountain biking?
@@stevenleffanue it's worth the pilgrimage to enjoy the mountain bike and fat bike extravaganza, along with wine if you're into that sort of thing. I really enjoy Cobbler Creek mountain bike park too for something closer.
I like those red tires. What brand are they?
Vittoria rubino pro
oz cycle very cool. I might buy some of those next time. I have an almost solid black bike and I bet those would really stand out. On a side note, my front wheel actually settles with the valve in the 1:00 position, oddly enough. My rear wheel is off being repaired right now but I will be keen to see where it balances when I get it back. Lastly I just want to say I really like your videos. You crack me up sometimes but I always learn something. Thanks for making great videos.
Yeh red tyres will definitely stand out on a stealthy black bike Daniel.
Unusual that the valve settles at 1oclock?? ...something is heavy at an odd spot.
Glad your liking the vids too 😁
I add my weights under the rim tape
Bill Cut that’s the way to do it!! Just to add, If you rims don’t have tape and/or are tubeless , cover the weights with a layer of electrical tape wrapped all the way around to ensure they do not move. Join the tape opposite the weights or over lap at the valve.
Omg thanks
How chang steel bearing to ceramic bearing ..?Pls Help
Simply replace with same...outside,inside and width of bearing must be equal to your old steel ones.
you should do a blind test to see if theres any real world i pact
Good suggestion. Might be onpar with ceramic bearings making you faster? 😁
Marginal gains!
9 grams... omg 9 grams... I now cruise at 4mph. Damn weight!
wabbling wheel ?
Wabble is Aussie for wobble FYI
I just spun my wheel like that and broke a spoke! So be careful.
"Balancing" is a complete waste of time. Adding weight for no reason. It has no benefit.
Only 9 grams ? My Mavic tubular wheels (each wheel) are 30' grams out. Sheesh! And yes I measured both with sew ups on and off - same deal.
Gosh! How can they be out by 30g? Must be a long brass valve stem?
I don't believe this is the right way to balance. The tire and tube contribute to the wheel imbalance.
great hack!
Out of balance wheels are pretty much a non-issue. This video explains it pretty well:
ua-cam.com/video/FubJV2N9dyY/v-deo.html
Small differences felt off the bike do not always translate to differences felt on the bike.
Thanx for the link. Wheel balancing is for higher speeds not just 40km/hr. Road cyclists often do 80km/hr + and control becomes more critical.
oz cycle True. Not always sure if the pro argument holds that much weight but i do not see any pro teams doing the whole wheel balancing thing. Eventhough they push their bikes to the limits on the descents.
Well only way to really know is to try. Really enjoying your videos and your DIY approach btw!
Great vid, and great idea, thanks! However, you've got the advantage on your Yoeleo wheels of having no spoke holes in the rim, and therefore no rim tape. Most wheels would have to have the weights placed either side of spoke holes (having removed the rim tape first). Can you do a vid on how to remove rim tape without breaking it? :-)
Glad you like the vid Andrew.
You can stick the weights to the rim underneath the rim tape. Most rim tapes can be removed or lifted to fit the weights. If not, use a new rim tape.
i run tubless and seems there is no way to counterbalance that sealant
Then you should use fluid counterbalance ,-)
Tubeless setups with sealant are self-balancing.
Any way of doing this without a truing stand?
MrFornicater Turn your bike upside down ;)
Was hoping not having to take the chain off for the rear haha
MrFornicater You don't have to really. I wouldn't put the weights in the tire anyway so no need to. Shane Miller did a video on this a year or 2 ago that this guys copied basically but he put the weights on the outside of the rim.
MrFornicater ua-cam.com/video/dcgiUcbS64c/v-deo.html
balance but after mounting the tire
is this really an issue ?
Video .pls.?
love your videos... but your riding on the wrong side of the road ;)
Haha....yeh its left side here. Youre from the USA?
oz cycle yes outside Seattle...... using a lot of your tips here keep up the good work 👍
Nice. Greetings from down under Australia 🤠
They’re riding in Oz mate! Left side of the road is correct!
looks like a copy of another video i watched on this
sry to say but ball-bearing chang to ceramic bearing plz video
You sell coke?