in light of this theory the weird detail of flying super high and divebombing actually makes a lot of sense and even gives a bit of an added bonus of explaining why the wall had to be built so high
@michaeltalksaboutstuff here's something to assist your theory about Harren the Black acquiring some lost knowledge: which is the one place whose library has special books which even surpassed Baelor the Blessed? Castle Black.. who was the Lord Commander during Harren the Black's time? Harren's brother.. I know the Ironborn love raiding, but in this particular case, there is no need when your brother has access to an insane library!! I think there's something very eerily peculiar about Harren building a magical castle & his brother being the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch - mayhaps they knew about The Others coming back🤔
Makes sense. Simplest explanation is that Harrens trees hadn't had enough time to grow so there was a weakness in his wards. Or Brandon might just be a better builder than Harren. I'd theorise that Brandon built empty channels into his walls into which the weirwoods could grow hence why they don't burst out so much at other sites. Given the winding tunnels of Winterfell they seem to have grown down. Storm's End has subterrenean tunnels as well iirc. Perhaps both were built on CotF tree/cave towns, which might also boost their magical power, whereas Harren might have been working with a localised weirwood net that hadn't grown enough to connect yet. A full power net may project higher than a dragon can fly. Harrenhal may be much more powerful in the current timeline. Does Littlefinger's obsession with getting Harrenhal suggest he knows more about Old Gods magic than we realise?
And then this begs the question, why would Littlefinger know so much about Old Gods magic? Is there any "Rodrik the Reader" moment with him where he would have run into this info? Remember we see moments like this for Rhaegar and in the show for Sam.
I don't think you can quite call it an obsession, he's never stepped foot inside the castle. He wanted the status Harrenhal gave him because it allowed him to marry Lysa Arryn and become lord protector for sweet robin. I think Littlefinger either dosn't believe in or care about magic, and even if he did I don't think it would be the aim of his schemes
Another interesting point is the fact that during the Conquest, the Snow Baster, brother of king Stark, is said to be ready to slay the dragons with weirwood arrows. And during the Blackfyre Rebellion, Bloodraven is said to have used weirwood arrows to kill the usurper. Like if it's common sense to use weirwook to kill dragon, it's never commented by the maesters
"I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?"
That paragraph is the reason I'm certain Stannis is screwed lol pride cometh before the fall. The show becoming a total train wreck is the only thing that may save him. GRRM might change his mind.
@@AerysIIFirstofhisname I think he will be defeated by the blizzard and will have to turn back, taking refuge at the Night Fort where Selyse and co will have fled to.
@UncleRuckus2134 My guess is that both sides having unreliable troops will bite them in the ass. We know from the Asha page that some of Stannis' northerners will charge too soon, and I'd bet that plus the traitors in either side's camp will cancel out. It will be a draw, Stannis will have to retreat to Deepwood Motte then the wall, and the Wildlings sent by Jon to help Stannis will help Mance kill Ramsay and take over Winterfell.
Not sure the Old Gods would have been happy with people cutting down their trees willy nilly for building materials. There's a reason Alys tells Daemon that Harrenhall has been cursed since the first stone was laid and that IS the reason. This theory is madness.
It's interesting that they mention the moon when Aegon flies so high to then crash down and enter the weirwood wards. Its like an echo of the bloodstone emperor/ Azor Ahai broke the moon, etc. To invade the weirwood net. According to LML's moon meteor theory anyway.
Off topic but in Hotd s2 e7 when all of the dragon seeds are presented to Vermithor it strikes me as a blood magic ritual. We have a large group of people with kings blood being given to the flames by a person who shares their blood. If a red priest were there imagine how they would put all of this magic to use.
I interpreted it as magic ritual as well. And there is something about fear as well. Clearly the dragon attacked that guy with an offset eye because he showed fear, and the others started running. But Hugh was accepted when he didn't run. And then Ulf sat down but he was paralyzed by fear, but perhaps he just stopped moving so the dragon thought he wasn't afraid. I don't know. I think magic is a better explanation than fear alone though.
Harren the Black: ha! Look at Aegon flying around up there on his dragon. What a dumb ass. Hey, the builders got the weirwood roof installed, right? -Uh...actually, m'lord, the roofing contractor left the job half finished last month, and he's has been ducking our ravens ever since. So no, the weirwood roof isn't yet finished, sir. Harren the Black: oh. Shit...
The Iron Throne is a red herring. There are more important and older thrones in Westeros. One of the best parts of HotD got looked over when Daemon was talking to the dude at Harenhall and they made what seemed like a joke about "what throne" but it was a legitimate question.
History repeats itself quite often in this Universe.....Harren The Black parallels Euron. GRRM has told us a lot of the story in different ways at different times throughout the story. My theory at least.
A giant Castle built out of Weirwood Trees next to the Isle of Faces which micht be the single most magical place in all of Westeros was MEANT to be magical? Getthefuckoutahere XD
I think like your wall theory, something major needs to happen with harrenhall before the story can end and the seasons can realign Lots of synchronicity with harrenhall and summerhall burning etc.
after watching this and the weirwood seeds ep and the jeor and wights ep . the "there must always be a stark in winterfell" i think supports this these.
I keep thinking about iron, the swords in the crypts as shade wards, blood and iron in the body, IronBorn Harren, Iron (ferrous) as the bane of faeries (CotF and wights) bronze v iron v valerian steel v dragonsteel v dragonglass . Also, separate thought, I’d guess Molestown is warded and perhaps an old tree town hidey hole from the wights.
Love this! Love it when you get weird. Thinking about possible explanations for the failure of a potential magical ward in the walls of Harrenhal I wonder if it could have something to do with the grandiosity of the architecture. It's this immense monument to the man's ego and cruelty. Maybe he built too big for it to be effective? Say for example the ward in the walls was working, as you say. If I'm not mistaken, Aegon mostly attacked the towers, which are much higher than the walls. Also, if the towers are within the walls but not adjacent to them, perhaps he built his castle so wide that he left the center and the towers vulnerable, without the protection of the warded wall. In any case, Harren was thinking two dimensionally about the ward, when he should have thought in three dimensions about both wards and dragons. Fascinating idea. Watch my videos.
Harrenhall magic could be quite weak, if the castle was completed for only one day. Also, was weaker than the Wall because of ice was not covering it. I think btw that dragons are not afraid of passing the wall but can sense that passing over could break their dragon bond with the rider. The thing i don't understand however is why Aegon, if he feared blood magic, left unchecked the weirwoods.
Winterfell will definitely be important during the long night. What will be the significance of harrenhall or storms end (if any.) Haven’t considered them as possible important locations for the long night before this.
Melisandra did need to be within the walls of storms end to use her magic, but she wasn't invited she was smuggled. Maybe they can't bring themselves in & someone else has to do it whether they are given permission by the one in charge or not. Could be that it worked since she was brought in under the castle walls by boat, like that was a natural weak spot? Perhaps that secret cave developed after the castle was built so the protection in the ground doesn't reach there anymore?
It would be cool if the effective range of the weirwood wards you mention, which would otherwise be totally arbitrary, is if you're out of the vision range of the eyes carved onto the tree. Aegon flew up so he 'couldn't be seen' by the weirwoods or the old gods inside them. So it could be assumed that there's a living consciousness of some sort inside the trees that, every time something magical enters their field of view, they manually send some psychic signal that cuts the magical connection. In a dragon, this might literally kill them if they fly over the ward, which is why they're so adamant about not doing it- in your other theories, you mention that the dragons are sort of like permanent wargs who exist with three consciousnesses inside them, if the ward separates Bran from Hodor, it would split the three heads of the dragon apart and it would probably freak out, go mad, and die.
Do you think that Harren wanted to bring a second long night? His brother was lord Commander at the Wall at the same time and Aegons first target was Harrenhal the exact day it was finished.
Nice theory...just one small nitpick...I doubt Harren read it from a book since for one their language is lost, now spoken only by people like the thenns and also i think its mentioned that the first men did not have written language untill the andals brought their own with them...essentially almost everyone in westeros including most beyond the wall now speak and write the andal language. I think its more plausable that Harren was someone like Euron (grrm does like to mirror the stories when creating his historic characters), maybe Harren had travelled to places like ashai and valaria before he became king and learnt about magic from them...he may even have experimented with things like the shade of evening or had visions through some other means which showed him about the long night and that the final showdown against the others would take place near the god's eye and that's why he built harrenhall.
i got back into the GoT lore scene after just starting HoTD when season 2 came out. Feels like a great time to return to the community with content like this still being made and now hopefully Winds of Winter coming Soon^tm. Oh no you convinced me it's happening :')
@CaptainFancyCat I didn't know anything about the series tbh, got really put off the whole series after end of GoT. Finally got into it after having nothing else to watch and saw promos for the new season - it's not perfect but I really missed the world that GRRM made.
@@OhJustCommenting Its truly disappointing having people praise this poorly written second season. Especially coming off of season one, which was peak television, addeing greater context to the time and setting. They can now double down and continue with the trash they are making now. I don't even wanna know what they are going to do to Dunk & Egg.
Harren builds a castle which is impervious to whyte walkers and can hold the biggest army in Westeros. His brother at the wall invites the walkers in and hides in the Nightfort or some other magical structure. The others wipe everyone but those in a magically warded castle then the Lord commander turns off the tap by uninviting the others everyone emergence from there castles and kills off the walkers then Harren having the largest army forces all that are left to bend the knee.
PLEASE make a video including the Ironborn and the Greyjoys in your old ways theory. With the focus on the Weirwoods and GRRM calling himself a gardener, "We do not saw" and "What is dead may never die" seem like HUGE statements, directly challenging nearly every main theme of the story. Just thinking about the contradicting statement to valar morghulis...
It seems like the quote ending in "Brandon Stark could taste the blood" isn't referring to Bran, all the other parts of the story around it all refer to him as Bran not Brandon Stark. Skinchanging into past greenseers sort of thing.
For the weirwood connection at Storms End you have a ?, but it might be worth noting that Storms End had a weirwood until Melisandre burned it. That would've been immediately after she had to be snuck in by Davos too.
I agree with the central premise here, that Harrenhal was purposefully built using magic. But you lose me where you propose it was done just to apply warding magic. For one rhing, one would have to wonder why Aegon, who had been entirely content with the other Kings of Westeros living in magically defended castles, would suddenly objecr to another. IMO: Harrenhal is what killed magic. And this was its purpose. The date that house Lothston took up Residence in Harrenhal closely aligns with the date dragons stopped hatching. And it was right after the last Whent left Harrenhal that Daenerys was able to hatch her three eggs. I propose that house Lothston and Whent have Hoare ancestry, and their rulership over the caste is what nullified magic.
I didn’t see it in the comments but could this be the origin of “guest right”? Like in the Age of Heroes you could’ve had like a Wierwood fence or doorway so the old gods would be watching and protecting you and your guests? Like it would help to explain how it originated and why (besides political reasons) why guest right is so important
If there is a weirwood inside storm's end, it doesn't seem like it did Cortnay Penrose any good. Then again, that spell came from underneath the castle and not from beyond it.
The simplest reason for Queen Alysanne's dragon not being able to cross The Wall is that she just didn't try it, because she didn't have a good reason to. Aegon, on the other hand, was very motivated to get inside Harrenhall, so he kept climbing and climbing until he succeeded. Speaking of altitude, the limit for how high a ward has to be to effectively exclude dragons is nowhere near "space". It's simply the height at which dragon or rider will pass out due to oxygen starvation as the air density drops. They don't have anything remotely like oxygen systems in GoT, so that'd be about 15,000ft for sustained flight, or a few minutes at 20,000ft (the oxygen already in your blood takes time to get used up, so you can "dance on the edge" for a limited time). It may be that an experienced dragon rider like Aegon knew that he could get away with flying very high for a few minutes and that was all he needed for a battle-winning climb+dive maneuver, whereas Alysanne may have thought it not worth the risk for idle curiosity. Of course, this presumes that they knew about the ward: they may not have done. Aegon's climb and dive would still have been a perfectly sound tactical maneuver even if the walls had been mere stone, and Alysanne may have misinterpreted Silverwing's reluctance to cross the wall as more behavioural than magical, especially since Silverwing was notably docile and good-natured.
I think your idea of Harren wanting to establish a dynasty that would live forever and for that he needed a castle that would protect against all threats, mortal and magical. (Come to think of it, he reminds me of Mohg who stole a new god to build his new age and dynasty around, although that did not work out for him, just like it didn't for Harren.) But to my mind comes a darker idea. We know Harren's non direct descendat Euron was mad and wanting to prepare for or even cause the apocalypse. What if Harren had the same idea? Even for an apocalypse withstanding castle, Harren's undertaking was ridiculously massive. The walls and magic wards would protect him against anyone trying to take over (except as we saw, dragons). I think it's still a bit too much for just an apocalypse guard. I think Harren wanted to cause the apocalypse and sit in his castle protected, while everyone else died. He would then become the king of the world, by killing all the other people. He wasn't above human sacrifice while building it, so why wouldn't he just kill everyone and be king of the shitpile afterwards. I don't know how, but it seemed to me that his knowledge of magic was so great, he might have understood the secrets of the Wall and how to bring it down as well. So then once the Others take care of all the people not inside his castle, he then kills them and wins all of Westeros if not the world for his prize. I have no idea why he would do this, other than he's clearly excessive and insane and Ironborn are known for doing mad shit with magic.
How do you think about how the dragons in HOTD can enter Harrenhal without flying incredibly high. Do you think fire or Dragonfire can annul the ward just like fire destroys wights?
@@yvongattaz7187 even with scorpion arrows the height he flew up doesn’t make sense, especially if he flew directly over Harrenhal because you can’t face a scorpion crossbow directly up
Brandon the Builder working on Storm's End indicates that at one point Storm's End was part of one state with Winterfell. Does building a magically warded castle in the North and in the Stormlands indicate that the "Warden of the North" and "Warden of the East" titles predate Aegon?
Could the "allowing people past the wards" be connected to the weight given on how guests are treated in westeros? Perhaps there is a sort of magic of home or property ownership.
Love this!!! Time has made wisemen look like fools and fools look like wisemen. Thank you for taking the time (pun intended) to QUESTION the given narratives. The reason I like this is because in this same manner I think eventually we will see the so called upstanding Ned Stark for the absolute fool he was. The man will be seen to have no redeeming qualities… . He’s a moron that was so wedded to traditions and the old ways that he purposely ignored the truth right in front of him. Even the child Bran knew that the runaway was telling the truth but Ned killed him antway. It's all there but the hardest thing to redress is false narratives that have hardened. I swear he killed Lyanna to save face with Robert and he was about to kill Jon just like he was about to kill the dire wolf pups. This was reinforced when Robert made Ned kill Lady. Ned has only made sure two ladies of Winterfell's bones were put into the crypt even though it wasn't the tradition, Lyanna and Lady because he felt guilty for their deaths.
Harrenhal is a nexus that affects time travel. The timeline we are reading and watching is an altered one, and whoever are fighting to take control of it has produced two simultaneous events: Harrenhal being completed on the same day Aegon began his conquest.
Many things came to mind and I'm going to have to sort through them. Were wights invited? I'm sceptical about this, only because Coldhands can't enter the cave. If he's trusted enough to bring Bran I don't see the point of keeping him out. It's not a bad explanation, there is no direct evidence to disprove it. Random thoughts that occurred while I listened. First. When describing Aegon I was reminded of how Tywin destroyed Castamere. Tywin used water and Aegon fire, but essentially the core elements of the story are very similar. Second. Bran's coma dream. While you went over Aegon's attack I was also reminded of Bran falling. In relation to magical barriers and height, it's interesting that it's while falling that Bran can see so far.
For some reason, I think your theories have been picked from GRRM's garden. Not even sure GRRM knows the history of the magic in his universe yet. Seems he'd have to write another 10 books explaining it. Starting with The Magic of Westeros. Volume 1. By Archmaester Frogeater
Sorry, not for me. Harrenhal represents the insignificance of man's endeavours in the face of nature, magic, or the divine. The castle is a metaphor, not a mcguffin.
OK so there's references about casterly rock being taller than the wall, supposedly impregnable, and that lann the clever figured out how to carve it out of the rock or something like that. Warding with Weirwoods? Building a labyrinth out of rock would result in stone getting weaker and weaker. Does it have higher protection than even the wall? Then Riverrun, supposedly impregnable, built to junction at 2 rivers and surrounded by water. Are Weirwoods warding away the rivers from getting into the stone. The eeyrie is supposedly impregnable too, was built by someone who was clever on a big ass mountain out of marble (is there a description of it being solid marble? Is the reason for Weirwoods not growing at the eeryie because they didn't put Weirwoods in the walls like the ones in the wall, winterfell and Harrenhal?
15:48 since the Wall isn’t exactly a permanent structure, since we know it can be lowered andlikely raised with the Horn of Winter, my guess is that the Moon has some kind of role to play in keeping the wall standing which in turn means a kind of magical barrier that extends well above the world as you suggest
Considering the show had the others being predicted through the castle and it meant to be canon. It does make sense that he saw the others coming but not the Targaryens.
in light of this theory the weird detail of flying super high and divebombing actually makes a lot of sense and even gives a bit of an added bonus of explaining why the wall had to be built so high
@michaeltalksaboutstuff here's something to assist your theory about Harren the Black acquiring some lost knowledge: which is the one place whose library has special books which even surpassed Baelor the Blessed? Castle Black.. who was the Lord Commander during Harren the Black's time? Harren's brother..
I know the Ironborn love raiding, but in this particular case, there is no need when your brother has access to an insane library!!
I think there's something very eerily peculiar about Harren building a magical castle & his brother being the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch - mayhaps they knew about The Others coming back🤔
Mayhaps! Are you a Fray playing Lord of the Crossing?
Makes sense. Simplest explanation is that Harrens trees hadn't had enough time to grow so there was a weakness in his wards. Or Brandon might just be a better builder than Harren.
I'd theorise that Brandon built empty channels into his walls into which the weirwoods could grow hence why they don't burst out so much at other sites. Given the winding tunnels of Winterfell they seem to have grown down. Storm's End has subterrenean tunnels as well iirc. Perhaps both were built on CotF tree/cave towns, which might also boost their magical power, whereas Harren might have been working with a localised weirwood net that hadn't grown enough to connect yet. A full power net may project higher than a dragon can fly. Harrenhal may be much more powerful in the current timeline.
Does Littlefinger's obsession with getting Harrenhal suggest he knows more about Old Gods magic than we realise?
And then this begs the question, why would Littlefinger know so much about Old Gods magic? Is there any "Rodrik the Reader" moment with him where he would have run into this info? Remember we see moments like this for Rhaegar and in the show for Sam.
I don't think you can quite call it an obsession, he's never stepped foot inside the castle. He wanted the status Harrenhal gave him because it allowed him to marry Lysa Arryn and become lord protector for sweet robin. I think Littlefinger either dosn't believe in or care about magic, and even if he did I don't think it would be the aim of his schemes
Roderick Harlaw: "READ, GREYJOY!!!!"
Iron Islanders: *horrified screams*
Harren's brother was Lord Commander of the Night's Watch when the Nightfort was still manned, that could be the source of his knowledge.
Saturday's just would not be the same without your videos Lord Michael of talking about stuff
Another interesting point is the fact that during the Conquest, the Snow Baster, brother of king Stark, is said to be ready to slay the dragons with weirwood arrows.
And during the Blackfyre Rebellion, Bloodraven is said to have used weirwood arrows to kill the usurper.
Like if it's common sense to use weirwook to kill dragon, it's never commented by the maesters
"I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?"
That paragraph is the reason I'm certain Stannis is screwed lol pride cometh before the fall.
The show becoming a total train wreck is the only thing that may save him. GRRM might change his mind.
@@pokeman5000 He has to burn Shireen and can’t do that unless he takes Winterfell cause I don’t see him retreating in any scenario.
@@AerysIIFirstofhisname I think he will be defeated by the blizzard and will have to turn back, taking refuge at the Night Fort where Selyse and co will have fled to.
@UncleRuckus2134 My guess is that both sides having unreliable troops will bite them in the ass. We know from the Asha page that some of Stannis' northerners will charge too soon, and I'd bet that plus the traitors in either side's camp will cancel out. It will be a draw, Stannis will have to retreat to Deepwood Motte then the wall, and the Wildlings sent by Jon to help Stannis will help Mance kill Ramsay and take over Winterfell.
Not sure the Old Gods would have been happy with people cutting down their trees willy nilly for building materials. There's a reason Alys tells Daemon that Harrenhall has been cursed since the first stone was laid and that IS the reason. This theory is madness.
been so obsessed with your channel lately
Same I've binged like half a videos in a week already LOL
It's interesting that they mention the moon when Aegon flies so high to then crash down and enter the weirwood wards. Its like an echo of the bloodstone emperor/ Azor Ahai broke the moon, etc. To invade the weirwood net. According to LML's moon meteor theory anyway.
Off topic but in Hotd s2 e7 when all of the dragon seeds are presented to Vermithor it strikes me as a blood magic ritual. We have a large group of people with kings blood being given to the flames by a person who shares their blood. If a red priest were there imagine how they would put all of this magic to use.
I interpreted it as magic ritual as well. And there is something about fear as well. Clearly the dragon attacked that guy with an offset eye because he showed fear, and the others started running. But Hugh was accepted when he didn't run. And then Ulf sat down but he was paralyzed by fear, but perhaps he just stopped moving so the dragon thought he wasn't afraid. I don't know.
I think magic is a better explanation than fear alone though.
Ulf accepted death - because he just knows his place on the pecking order.
@@Slechy_Lesh Yeah, I like that idea. I obviously think something magical is going on too. But not having fear is probably a component as well.
Harren the Black: ha! Look at Aegon flying around up there on his dragon. What a dumb ass. Hey, the builders got the weirwood roof installed, right?
-Uh...actually, m'lord, the roofing contractor left the job half finished last month, and he's has been ducking our ravens ever since. So no, the weirwood roof isn't yet finished, sir.
Harren the Black: oh. Shit...
FYI your videos are SO good
The “it’s a cave” on your chart made me laugh😂
The Iron Throne is a red herring.
There are more important and older thrones in Westeros. One of the best parts of HotD got looked over when Daemon was talking to the dude at Harenhall and they made what seemed like a joke about "what throne" but it was a legitimate question.
History repeats itself quite often in this Universe.....Harren The Black parallels Euron. GRRM has told us a lot of the story in different ways at different times throughout the story. My theory at least.
A giant Castle built out of Weirwood Trees next to the Isle of Faces which micht be the single most magical place in all of Westeros was MEANT to be magical? Getthefuckoutahere XD
I think like your wall theory, something major needs to happen with harrenhall before the story can end and the seasons can realign
Lots of synchronicity with harrenhall and summerhall burning etc.
i know Michael is cookin up some sick videos after that last episode
It’s such a good start to my weekend to wake up and see a new Michael video
after watching this and the weirwood seeds ep and the jeor and wights ep . the "there must always be a stark in winterfell" i think supports this these.
I keep thinking about iron, the swords in the crypts as shade wards, blood and iron in the body, IronBorn Harren, Iron (ferrous) as the bane of faeries (CotF and wights) bronze v iron v valerian steel v dragonsteel v dragonglass . Also, separate thought, I’d guess Molestown is warded and perhaps an old tree town hidey hole from the wights.
Then I think it's clear now which are gonna be the strongholds against the long night in the next books so far: Winterfell and Harrenhall.
harenhall's broken, caraxes landed on it while at low flight height.
Actually cool theory.
Could the curse of Harrenhal be caused by the fact that there is a broken magic ward here?
Daemon had no trouble flying into Harrenhal at tower top height before he was welcomed.
Big difference between newly built castle and a burned out shell of a castle.
I always wonder about the hollow hill being a secret tree town
Sounds like a fun day at harrenhal on that first day 🐲🔥
I love these Elden Ring lore videos
Love this! Love it when you get weird. Thinking about possible explanations for the failure of a potential magical ward in the walls of Harrenhal I wonder if it could have something to do with the grandiosity of the architecture. It's this immense monument to the man's ego and cruelty. Maybe he built too big for it to be effective? Say for example the ward in the walls was working, as you say. If I'm not mistaken, Aegon mostly attacked the towers, which are much higher than the walls. Also, if the towers are within the walls but not adjacent to them, perhaps he built his castle so wide that he left the center and the towers vulnerable, without the protection of the warded wall. In any case, Harren was thinking two dimensionally about the ward, when he should have thought in three dimensions about both wards and dragons. Fascinating idea. Watch my videos.
Great Analysis!
Maybe he was goading Aegon to attack, Maybe he was just hoping Balerion would make Harrenhal into a fused black stone castle and he'd survive.
I always thought it’d be cool to see a building made to be a giant glass candle. Imagine the weirdness that would go on inside awake and asleep.
As usual
Mind blown
Inspired sir, love your theories
So the Others have vampire rule about getting into the magic castles, nice. Child's game Come-into-my-castle suddenly appear even more important.
Harrenhall magic could be quite weak, if the castle was completed for only one day. Also, was weaker than the Wall because of ice was not covering it.
I think btw that dragons are not afraid of passing the wall but can sense that passing over could break their dragon bond with the rider.
The thing i don't understand however is why Aegon, if he feared blood magic, left unchecked the weirwoods.
I really enjoy these theories!A
Winterfell will definitely be important during the long night. What will be the significance of harrenhall or storms end (if any.) Haven’t considered them as possible important locations for the long night before this.
Melisandra did need to be within the walls of storms end to use her magic, but she wasn't invited she was smuggled. Maybe they can't bring themselves in & someone else has to do it whether they are given permission by the one in charge or not. Could be that it worked since she was brought in under the castle walls by boat, like that was a natural weak spot? Perhaps that secret cave developed after the castle was built so the protection in the ground doesn't reach there anymore?
I LIVE IN YOUR WALLS. 👁️🌳👁️
It would be cool if the effective range of the weirwood wards you mention, which would otherwise be totally arbitrary, is if you're out of the vision range of the eyes carved onto the tree. Aegon flew up so he 'couldn't be seen' by the weirwoods or the old gods inside them. So it could be assumed that there's a living consciousness of some sort inside the trees that, every time something magical enters their field of view, they manually send some psychic signal that cuts the magical connection. In a dragon, this might literally kill them if they fly over the ward, which is why they're so adamant about not doing it- in your other theories, you mention that the dragons are sort of like permanent wargs who exist with three consciousnesses inside them, if the ward separates Bran from Hodor, it would split the three heads of the dragon apart and it would probably freak out, go mad, and die.
I think the obvious followup question is: is the ward still active, or did Balerion destroy it?
Balerion made a mass sacrifice to the freshly grafted weirwoods. Maybe he strengthened the magic.
Do you think that Harren wanted to bring a second long night? His brother was lord Commander at the Wall at the same time and Aegons first target was Harrenhal the exact day it was finished.
Bro comes in with interesting theories on Saturday to make the trash aired on Sunday not hurt as much. Thank you
If dragons had never showed up, why not keep building more castles like it?
Nice theory...just one small nitpick...I doubt Harren read it from a book since for one their language is lost, now spoken only by people like the thenns and also i think its mentioned that the first men did not have written language untill the andals brought their own with them...essentially almost everyone in westeros including most beyond the wall now speak and write the andal language. I think its more plausable that Harren was someone like Euron (grrm does like to mirror the stories when creating his historic characters), maybe Harren had travelled to places like ashai and valaria before he became king and learnt about magic from them...he may even have experimented with things like the shade of evening or had visions through some other means which showed him about the long night and that the final showdown against the others would take place near the god's eye and that's why he built harrenhall.
i got back into the GoT lore scene after just starting HoTD when season 2 came out. Feels like a great time to return to the community with content like this still being made and now hopefully Winds of Winter coming Soon^tm. Oh no you convinced me it's happening :')
Season 2 is what got you back?! Really?! Aside from Rook's Rest, S2 is complete trash. Like S8 GoT bad.
@CaptainFancyCat I didn't know anything about the series tbh, got really put off the whole series after end of GoT. Finally got into it after having nothing else to watch and saw promos for the new season - it's not perfect but I really missed the world that GRRM made.
@@OhJustCommenting Its truly disappointing having people praise this poorly written second season. Especially coming off of season one, which was peak television, addeing greater context to the time and setting. They can now double down and continue with the trash they are making now. I don't even wanna know what they are going to do to Dunk & Egg.
Harren builds a castle which is impervious to whyte walkers and can hold the biggest army in Westeros. His brother at the wall invites the walkers in and hides in the Nightfort or some other magical structure. The others wipe everyone but those in a magically warded castle then the Lord commander turns off the tap by uninviting the others everyone emergence from there castles and kills off the walkers then Harren having the largest army forces all that are left to bend the knee.
Keep on cookin' Michael!
PLEASE make a video including the Ironborn and the Greyjoys in your old ways theory. With the focus on the Weirwoods and GRRM calling himself a gardener, "We do not saw" and "What is dead may never die" seem like HUGE statements, directly challenging nearly every main theme of the story. Just thinking about the contradicting statement to valar morghulis...
I can see Rodrick and Sam discovering complementing information that us the readers can put together, but not the characters tragically...
Awesome as always!
Have there ever been dragons inside Winterfell or Storms End in the books?
Has a dragon tried to fly around the Wall, East or West?
It seems like the quote ending in "Brandon Stark could taste the blood" isn't referring to Bran, all the other parts of the story around it all refer to him as Bran not Brandon Stark. Skinchanging into past greenseers sort of thing.
Happy Saturday!
For the weirwood connection at Storms End you have a ?, but it might be worth noting that Storms End had a weirwood until Melisandre burned it. That would've been immediately after she had to be snuck in by Davos too.
I agree with the central premise here, that Harrenhal was purposefully built using magic. But you lose me where you propose it was done just to apply warding magic. For one rhing, one would have to wonder why Aegon, who had been entirely content with the other Kings of Westeros living in magically defended castles, would suddenly objecr to another.
IMO: Harrenhal is what killed magic. And this was its purpose.
The date that house Lothston took up Residence in Harrenhal closely aligns with the date dragons stopped hatching. And it was right after the last Whent left Harrenhal that Daenerys was able to hatch her three eggs. I propose that house Lothston and Whent have Hoare ancestry, and their rulership over the caste is what nullified magic.
I didn’t see it in the comments but could this be the origin of “guest right”? Like in the Age of Heroes you could’ve had like a Wierwood fence or doorway so the old gods would be watching and protecting you and your guests? Like it would help to explain how it originated and why (besides political reasons) why guest right is so important
Is this also why theon was able to take winterfell? The ward of winterfell considered him a stark/guest in general
The biggest ah ha moment I got from this vid is what does it mean if John comes back as a wight commander of the nights watch. 😅
Harren perhaps had a woods witch consultant maybe even Alys Rivers herself
That would make Alys over a hundres years old, so if that's true then Alys' backstory as a Stong bastard is fake and she is probably not even human
nah, she'd just keep talking about the smallfolk
@@samuelschonenbergerI actually thought that was the case after reading the book before the series to be fair
Harren's magical knowledge is a nice parallel w/Euron
Maybe The Conqueror flew so high as a battle tactic, to avoid being shot, and it was happenstance that he bypassed a magical ward.
Makes sense.
i hit that notification so fast
Will you talk about the fused stone walls at Storm's End?
If there is a weirwood inside storm's end, it doesn't seem like it did Cortnay Penrose any good. Then again, that spell came from underneath the castle and not from beyond it.
Could it be that the weirwoods at winterfell are pumping up hot underground water and there aren't really naturally ocurring hot springs?
If I'm not mistaken, the castle construction was started by Haren the blacks grandfather. Did he also know this?
The simplest reason for Queen Alysanne's dragon not being able to cross The Wall is that she just didn't try it, because she didn't have a good reason to. Aegon, on the other hand, was very motivated to get inside Harrenhall, so he kept climbing and climbing until he succeeded. Speaking of altitude, the limit for how high a ward has to be to effectively exclude dragons is nowhere near "space". It's simply the height at which dragon or rider will pass out due to oxygen starvation as the air density drops. They don't have anything remotely like oxygen systems in GoT, so that'd be about 15,000ft for sustained flight, or a few minutes at 20,000ft (the oxygen already in your blood takes time to get used up, so you can "dance on the edge" for a limited time). It may be that an experienced dragon rider like Aegon knew that he could get away with flying very high for a few minutes and that was all he needed for a battle-winning climb+dive maneuver, whereas Alysanne may have thought it not worth the risk for idle curiosity.
Of course, this presumes that they knew about the ward: they may not have done. Aegon's climb and dive would still have been a perfectly sound tactical maneuver even if the walls had been mere stone, and Alysanne may have misinterpreted Silverwing's reluctance to cross the wall as more behavioural than magical, especially since Silverwing was notably docile and good-natured.
Keep it up
I think your idea of Harren wanting to establish a dynasty that would live forever and for that he needed a castle that would protect against all threats, mortal and magical. (Come to think of it, he reminds me of Mohg who stole a new god to build his new age and dynasty around, although that did not work out for him, just like it didn't for Harren.)
But to my mind comes a darker idea.
We know Harren's non direct descendat Euron was mad and wanting to prepare for or even cause the apocalypse. What if Harren had the same idea? Even for an apocalypse withstanding castle, Harren's undertaking was ridiculously massive. The walls and magic wards would protect him against anyone trying to take over (except as we saw, dragons). I think it's still a bit too much for just an apocalypse guard. I think Harren wanted to cause the apocalypse and sit in his castle protected, while everyone else died. He would then become the king of the world, by killing all the other people. He wasn't above human sacrifice while building it, so why wouldn't he just kill everyone and be king of the shitpile afterwards.
I don't know how, but it seemed to me that his knowledge of magic was so great, he might have understood the secrets of the Wall and how to bring it down as well. So then once the Others take care of all the people not inside his castle, he then kills them and wins all of Westeros if not the world for his prize.
I have no idea why he would do this, other than he's clearly excessive and insane and Ironborn are known for doing mad shit with magic.
How do you think about how the dragons in HOTD can enter Harrenhal without flying incredibly high. Do you think fire or Dragonfire can annul the ward just like fire destroys wights?
I always thought it was weird that Aegon had to fly so high to destroy Harrenhal and this explains it so perfectly!
to avoid scopion arrows
I mean that still doesn't really make sense, he could get over the walls without flying that high.
@@yvongattaz7187 even with scorpion arrows the height he flew up doesn’t make sense, especially if he flew directly over Harrenhal because you can’t face a scorpion crossbow directly up
Brandon the Builder working on Storm's End indicates that at one point Storm's End was part of one state with Winterfell. Does building a magically warded castle in the North and in the Stormlands indicate that the "Warden of the North" and "Warden of the East" titles predate Aegon?
Could there godswood be used to keep the trees alive in the walls?
Michael started talking again
Let gooo
Pretty good way to start Saturday
Great video once again
Praise and comment to the old gods and the algorithm
Hope ur ok.missing ur videos. I need it. LoL
Wasn't Harens brother lord Commander at the wall? Could he have told him of the magic of the night fort?
Well good morning let's get it
Comment for the algo 👍
House of Black and White has a half wierwood door and wierwood construction, on the warding point. Also Harren the Reader lol
Could the "allowing people past the wards" be connected to the weight given on how guests are treated in westeros? Perhaps there is a sort of magic of home or property ownership.
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Harren knew about The Long Night ahead... Makes so much sense... Im too blown away right now 🤯 Amazing content man wow
...magical reasons
Love this!!!
Time has made wisemen look like fools and fools look like wisemen.
Thank you for taking the time (pun intended) to QUESTION the given narratives.
The reason I like this is because in this same manner I think eventually we will see the so called upstanding Ned Stark for the absolute fool he was. The man will be seen to have no redeeming qualities… . He’s a moron that was so wedded to traditions and the old ways that he purposely ignored the truth right in front of him. Even the child Bran knew that the runaway was telling the truth but Ned killed him antway.
It's all there but the hardest thing to redress is false narratives that have hardened. I swear he killed Lyanna to save face with Robert and he was about to kill Jon just like he was about to kill the dire wolf pups. This was reinforced when Robert made Ned kill Lady. Ned has only made sure two ladies of Winterfell's bones were put into the crypt even though it wasn't the tradition, Lyanna and Lady because he felt guilty for their deaths.
When you mention the Bloodraven cave wards I remembered your Wall and Dragons videos and started laughing out loud at the implication
Harrenhal is a nexus that affects time travel. The timeline we are reading and watching is an altered one, and whoever are fighting to take control of it has produced two simultaneous events: Harrenhal being completed on the same day Aegon began his conquest.
Many things came to mind and I'm going to have to sort through them.
Were wights invited? I'm sceptical about this, only because Coldhands can't enter the cave. If he's trusted enough to bring Bran I don't see the point of keeping him out. It's not a bad explanation, there is no direct evidence to disprove it.
Random thoughts that occurred while I listened. First. When describing Aegon I was reminded of how Tywin destroyed Castamere. Tywin used water and Aegon fire, but essentially the core elements of the story are very similar.
Second. Bran's coma dream. While you went over Aegon's attack I was also reminded of Bran falling. In relation to magical barriers and height, it's interesting that it's while falling that Bran can see so far.
Im with you. But i think Harrenhals "ward" didn't work because it was too new...By not thinking of that...he was an arrogant idiot.
For some reason, I think your theories have been picked from GRRM's garden. Not even sure GRRM knows the history of the magic in his universe yet. Seems he'd have to write another 10 books explaining it. Starting with The Magic of Westeros. Volume 1. By Archmaester Frogeater
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Sorry, not for me. Harrenhal represents the insignificance of man's endeavours in the face of nature, magic, or the divine. The castle is a metaphor, not a mcguffin.
OK so there's references about casterly rock being taller than the wall, supposedly impregnable, and that lann the clever figured out how to carve it out of the rock or something like that. Warding with Weirwoods? Building a labyrinth out of rock would result in stone getting weaker and weaker. Does it have higher protection than even the wall?
Then Riverrun, supposedly impregnable, built to junction at 2 rivers and surrounded by water. Are Weirwoods warding away the rivers from getting into the stone.
The eeyrie is supposedly impregnable too, was built by someone who was clever on a big ass mountain out of marble (is there a description of it being solid marble? Is the reason for Weirwoods not growing at the eeryie because they didn't put Weirwoods in the walls like the ones in the wall, winterfell and Harrenhal?
15:48 since the Wall isn’t exactly a permanent structure, since we know it can be lowered andlikely raised with the Horn of Winter, my guess is that the Moon has some kind of role to play in keeping the wall standing which in turn means a kind of magical barrier that extends well above the world as you suggest
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Considering the show had the others being predicted through the castle and it meant to be canon. It does make sense that he saw the others coming but not the Targaryens.