Gender swap remakes make me feel like female characters are considered secondary, which is funny because it's completely contradictory to the purpose of the remake. The whole purpose is just to cash in on the success of another movie while also gaining a lot of controversy from film buffs and guys who don't care about female characters. Plus, it's trying desperately to widen the demographic to more women without putting in effort.
It's not we don't care about female characters but just most films don't focus on females and some people hate on these gender swap films because they are unrightfully getting praised because of the nostalgic value most people get just from the name of some films
Yeah, the new age Hollywood elites only care about “vehicles” to push their political ideology and somewhat false narratives. I think they would use more original IPs but they are creatively bankrupt, so soft remake reboot sequel prequels are whats done to franchises with fan bases that have supported said franchises for decades Maybe these creators/filmmakers have a incredible amount of disdain for these franchises in the first place, so maybe they think “why not…..we can anger the nerds while possibly creating a success. If not, at least we got a kill”. But idk, it might have to do with a company wanting to keep the rights so the make trash to keep the license going like Fantastic Four ‘94. If i were to be honest, I’d say that there has been a lot of box checking, diversity and gen z hires (nothing wrong with that for the most part, people get old and new humans grow up to be the next gen- Captain Obvious). But the difference now being the very toxic and hatred fueled hires either sabotage to then get a pat on the head instead of being fired OR its to gain woke political points instead of cash (which would be insane to consider but we have a plethora of examples from the past 6 years) Regardless….its a very strange time we are in but i doubt future scholars will be kind to this era lol. All i know its a shame just how many missed opportunities there has been recently
I really appreciate this review. Every time I try to argue that we should just be creating new original stories with female leads instead of making female-lead versions of male-led action films, other women always get confused or upset with my opinion (especially seeing that I am a woman). I feel like the artistic value just fades when we make these sorts of remakes... It's just my opinion though, maybe I just don't understand.
What, you don't want Captain Marvel, X-23, Jane Foster Thor, Batgirl, Supergirl, Hawkgirl, Spider-Gwen and She-Hulk movies to be the next phase of superhero movies?!? /s
I agree with you totally! I mean I don't even think that this practice is feminist, because they are taking men's roles, I want a new movie with great women, I don't want to see great actresses doing male roles, it's like they are taking the men's seconds I don't like that. I want new movies! There has to be a new scrpit out there that nobody cares about but it's actually great.
No you’re right. It does nothing but contribute to Hollywood’s unoriginality and it makes it seem like minority characters can’t have a good story without borrowing everything from the majority.
Unoriginal stories and the lack of overall creativity and the ability to write interesting characters within interesting stories is the sole reason Marvel Comics is failing right now, like I've been saying it for years when you create something to push an agenda whatever that maybe, on what ever side it's on. It's going to be shit because your relaying on factors that will inherently not tell a good story.
In my opinion remakes are only justified when they improve on the original or give it an interesting spin (an actual spin, not just saying "this story but IN SPACE, or WITH WOMEN")
Magalí I. B. I completely agree. It’s so hard now to find movies that take an interesting spin on the original. I think the only recent example is Prometheus and maybe Mad Max. Most sequels and remakes just feel like rehashes (here’s hoping Fallen Kingdom isn’t a pile of dinosaur crap!)
Magalí I. B. I think the best justification is "this movie was shit, but I like the story. Lets make it again, but better." In contrast, I typically don't like remakes of good movies.
I agree. Giving women movie roles that have already been established by men isn't progression, it's regression. It's kind of like how, in comics, we have Supergirl, Batgirl, Spider-Woman, Captain Marvel, and She-Hulk. I know that there are plenty of female superheroes who are original, but the ones I mentioned are some of the most know, and they're all offshoots of male superheroes that were already established. The Descent and Annihilation are, in my opinion, two very good, original movies that feature an all-female lead cast. And they don't draw attention to the fact that, "Hey! Look at us! We don't need no stinkin' men!", they just inhabit the movie they're in, and because of that, they don't stand out as movies that were made to placate female audiences. They're simply great movies, because the acting and plot was great. Sincerely, Just a guy, with no SJW agenda, who loves movies.
Word Unheard Spider-Woman isn't an offshoot of Spider-Man though. She just happens to have a name that's similar. And red on her costume. But I agree with the rest.
If you make it a point to "push back" against the supposed "social injustice" of "social justice warriors" you're a social justice warrior - with an agenda. I'm sorry, you don't get to pick a side in a war and claim not to be warrior. It's ridiculous, no matter how many hundred of people give you dabs. It's like you gave a political opinion and then claimed not to have a political agenda. It's not how this works, but it's fashionable to say that it does. Also, your criticism exposes a fatal flaw in itself because Batgirl, Captain Marvel, and She-Hulk in particular are often considered iconic, well written, well rounded characters in their own right. So those examples qualify as a heap of evidence that you can do the distaff counterpart and not sacrifice or undermine the individuality that comes with making a "new" character.
Kronn yeah those and Silent Voice are really great. Series are usually better on having a main character, with agency and who's female. Honestly a movie with any token minority as a main character is rare outside of Drama Oscar bait
As soon as the movie ended, my friend said to me, "They didn't really have any complications" - and that's probably the only flaw. The closest I got to being worried was when Amina almost lost them in the sink. Nothing went wrong.
Yesssssss you explain everything so well. And this phenomenon is even worse, I think, because movies like Annihilation don't get the attention they deserve for actually doing what Ocean's 8 and Ghostbusters advertise.
Why not just make an all female cast heist film. I LOVE heist films,games and stories but I was put off by this film because of the stigma and the fact it's a remake. Make original films!!
"Like Ocean's 14!" Sorry, I just caught the fact that you didn't say anywhere that you were put off by the film being the fourth in a washed up franchise that's now 17 years old.
I really really wish that you would do a video on The Handmaid's Tale. It is one of the most visually stunning shows I have seen and I would absolutely love to see your take on it
I love The Handmaids Tale but I feel like it's starting to become what NBC Hannibal became which was too artsy. Both began to focus more on visual storytelling than actual dialogue and it seems far too artsy. It's not a bad a thing just not my style.I hope he does do a video on the show though!
I had mixed feelings about the book (great satire and imagery, presentation leaves something to be desired) but haven’t see the show yet. Maybe I’ll review it in its entirety once it finishes
"Maybe I’ll review it in its entirety once it finishes" I love this new policy people have adopted, of waiting until a show is over to watch it. Programming used to be all about ratings and syndication.The TV landscape is so different now. So much more nuanced, so much more cinematic, so much more competitive. Not to mention the freedom of choice on-demand viewing delivers. I mean - It's not as if a show could get prematurely _canceled_ because a significant portion of its target demographic will happily wait several *years* to watch a single episode.
Did Hollywood forget about Alien, Terminator, Kill Bill, Underworld, The Matrix, etcetera? Women have either starred in or played a prominent role in some of the most popular action/action-related movies of all time!
Celina k Well my point was that Hollywood seems to think society is misogynist and needs to get acclimated to women in action movie roles, when historically there’s been a lot of success on that front. As for recent films I’d say Wonder Woman, Mad Max: Fury Road, Atomic Blonde, and You’re Next are solid examples. In fact, speaking of the last one, the Horror genre has a proud tradition of scream queens and final girls.
These weren't frequent affairs then tho. Were they? The group of women-led films is still small, imo. Even historically speaking. Plus there are additional concerns like - does it pass the Bechdel Test? Does it have multiple female characters in ensemble cast films (cos the trend is usually to have like ten guys and one woman. I know, I know. I am exaggerating. But still...)? Is the prominent female character an eventual love interest? If sexual assault or abuse or trauma is part of the female character's narrative, is it addressed properly and with care? These are important considerations - to me atleast - when it comes to figuring out if the "woman" factor is any more important in a film than the standard hollywood product or not. And not many films pass the test. I want to see women-led women-produced content in all kinds of genres and I want to see it way waaaay more frequently.
This is not an attack on you comment, OP. I, by no means, am suggesting that the existing classics featuring female protagonists or main characters should not celebrated. I just want it done better and more often.
@@oof-rr5nf As many great people have said, statistical disparity does not indicate discrimination. If there is a GOOD female-led, female-produced movie, people will watch it. You must also consider that if a movie does not pass the Bechdel test, it is most certainly the result of poor writing, not discrimination (it is shown that movies that pass the test, financially outperform the ones that don't - and what studio would actively discriminate in this manner if it is financially detrimental?!). Your grievance is more with human nature and biological interests rather than worldwide conspiratorial discrimination.
Does anyone else feel like they're trying to say these are the first female-lead action movies ever? It's like they suddenly forgot about Foxy Brown, Alien, Terminator 2, Bad Girls... Hollywood is not doing anything new.
When I think of female action roles the first two movies that come to my mind are Mad Max Fury Road and Atomic Blonde. Amazing movies and both starring Charlize Theron. In the case of Mad Max there was previous movies with lead roles of a man, but the new one was totally fresh and great in its own way.
It kind of helps that Max is the kind of protagonist who just shows up into other people's conflicts and gets involved. At least in Road Warrior, but people tell me that's the best one, so I think it's worth mentioning.
So female movies only work if they are macho and aggressive like males. The best male movies are movies about close friendship like "I Love You Man", "Pineapple Express", and "Super Bad"
I really don't see this problem of female driven action films. There are plenty of great female hero characters like Katniss and Ripley. I just want the movie to be good. I don't care if it's about men or women.
Melissa I believe the issue is the remaking. I personally don't really care either, but if you're going to make a movie, creativity should be a priority, otherwise, why not just rewatch old movies
Absolutely. Hollywood has a definite problem. I agree with him that remaking a so-so or bad movie usually works better than remaking a great one. I also think a remake can work if you take the film in a completely different direction. Unfortunately, like you said, they rarely try to be creative.
Maró Luna youre right. only 24% of protags of the top 100 grossing films are female. you may not care if they are male or female (or think you may not care) but that doesnt change the reality, which is why even shitty higher budget movies matter in changing the status quo.
@@futurestoryteller Them being "progressive" is the same as exploitation essentially, because studios (for some reason) think doing stuff like makes money. Call it exploitation if you want, but the thing they're exploiting is in HEAVY quotes here, "progress".
4:05 lol. I saw this one with my parents. chatting/kissing couples my age on each side of us. - - and yeah. Decent fun flick that I forgot about after dinner. But I Was happy to realize afterwards that the movie hadn’t forced us to be hyper aware of their gender the whole time, like many movies do when they tokenize female characters. I mean, they are undeniably confidently feminine, but it was a relief to just get to watch them as a mixed gang of people, without constantly having it shoved in our face that they are WOMEN people, as though that’s some special thing. (I mean it still may be, but dose more to play it cool within the film) And no abnoxious anti-male sexist hypocrisy stood out to me either. They didn’t seem to be pandering to any ideologies. They picked one good moment for Debbie to make a girl power statement to the mirror right before the heist... and they gave it just the right irreverent punchline ( It was more normalizing. Kinda forgettable, but did it’s part contributing to normalizing casts of women leads.
6:36 the thing about Oceans 12 was that it wasn’t well received because it was trying to be extremely different from the first one. Which in a way has made it age pretty well.
The reason why they made this with women is principally because Clooney has declared there won't be sequels after 13 because of the death of Bernie Mac and they wanted to bring the franchise back.
You are right. Ocean's Eleven comes to my mind first when i hear heist. But i enjoyed the sequels. I actually would like Twelve more if it wasn't for this one very stupid Julia Roberts - moment
I can't see why Hollywood would think we need 'warming up' for original female led action movies. Loads of us went to the cinema to see wonder woman, and it was really fun.
Andrew Dixon Wonder Woman isn't really an original movie though. It's based on a decades old comic character that already had a tv show, animated movie and multiple appearances in video games and animated shows/movies. And many people went to see it because they wanted to see if the DCEU (which was founded on two most popular male comic characters) could get better. While stuff like Atomic Blonde, while being R rated, was seen by many people. I personally don't like it, but there were still people who enjoyed it. It is still not "original" since it's based on a comic, but it's "original" as in "the first time the character/story are seen on screen.
Niko Miller Loads of the younger generation won't remember her TV show or comics. Most people don't care about seeing if DC crash and burn. What I'm getting at is that this isn't a gender-switched film franchise, and it did really well. Heck, we was watching Hellraiser 2 the other night and had loads of fun. It was only at the end of the movie that I realised that there was probably more women than men in leading roles. I've seen that movie loads, and never noticed. Oh, and tankgirl. We need more characters like tankgirl.
I have to agree with this. No matter how badly I want to see female lead characters, give them their _own_ stories. To write us into male dominated stories shows us being fit into the heroism that was written out for a man because we can't find our own. Women are their own people, not just Handmaid's Tale-esque offred's/ of-men's.
The thing is, I totally agree that women need their own original films so that they're not just living in the shadows of men. HOWEVER while I feel like a lot of people would agree with this sentiment, not many put it into practice, the best example being "Annihilation" (The Red Letter Media UA-cam review of this movie explains how I feel perfectly.) The movie really should have been a big success when you compare it against films like the "Ghostbusters" remake; it had a cast of actual smart women who weren't going to make cheap jokes the whole time, there was at least one big star to sell tickets, it did a lot of advertising, and was even a genre everyone seems to be enjoying right now, scifi. It got a decent score on Rotten Tomatoes, and is based off a book which everyone is always so eager to see. Despite all this, it was basically a flop. I mean, "Truth or Dare" made more in theaters, how sad is that. We all can say what we like about how women need their own roles, because it clearly doesn't sell, at least not yet.
Sarah McDonald i havent Seen annihilation yet but im exited for it. Wanna read the book first. I believe the book isnt as well known to be an actual selling point for the movie. Its the first of a trilogy which could be a Problem. The director Alex Garland is great but more known for his screenwriting (28 days later, sunshine) rather than directing (ex machina). The Ghostbusters Remake could build on the original movies and it had the controversies (man Hating, Feminism,...) so IMO the Ghostbusters Remake would have a better Chance to become successful. Please excuse my english skills. Im not a native speaker
It was a flop because they released it on Netflix instead of in cinemas outside of USA. I know a few people who wanted to see it in cinemas when the first trailer came out. But it didn't, so it earned less money.
I'm a feminist and a woman and I agree with everything you said. To show female empowerment don't have them be the she-versions of pre-existing male characters. We are our own persons so should be our characters. Enough with the Supergirls and Batgirls.
I actually wanted to see this until I realized it was an Ocean’s # film. Then it just felt like someone was trying to sell me something. This whole idea that we need to be “warmed up” to see a female driven whatever is pretty unrealistic. There are plenty of female led films in the past that prove audiences don’t care about something so trivial. We just want great films, period.
Inspired Shane oh wow! ok now try 2016, then 2015 then 2014 and then look at 2018... are we really going to take an exception as the norm? also beauty and the beast and star wars all have built in audiences that have more to do with the total gross then the actual characters...
BlueG The Hunger Games. Twilight. Frozen. Alien. Erin Brockovich. Thelma and Louise. Mad Max: Fury Road. Bridesmaids. Hereditary. Tomb Raider. Gone Girl. Fifty Shades of Grey. Kill Bill. Monster. Black Swan. I’m picking and choosing here. There are SO many examples, and they’re pretty easy to find considering literally half the planet is comprised of women.
biggest 100 films of all time... if you can pick out 10 films in there that are lead by women, that did not have a build in audience before going to film... so books and games. www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/
I kind of agree with you - female remakes aren't progression. However, I really enjoyed this movie in its own right, and it was fantastic to see that many talented women on the screen! This might be simplistic, but I enjoyed this movie, I thought the acting was good and the plot was interesting. For me, that is enough. It's also worth pointing out that this wasn't a remake.
I am trying to make a remake based on a nearly 20 year old TV series which was itself based on a book series, because I felt that the original was executed poorly and was made at the wrong time. This means I support remakes if they improve on the original’s mistakes and create their own identity. For example, the Percy Jackson movie was a terrible adaptation so a remake could in all likelihood be seen as the definitive edition.
Just tossing it out there that there is a Percy Jackson musical that popped up a year called "The Lightning Thief." I'm not certain if it's complete trash since I half listened to only the opening song; only know about it because I heard it's doing a North American tour. If someone is crazy enough to successfully create a musical of Riordan's story, there has to be hope for a theatrical (film) remake someday.
I wanted to watch the movie before watching any reviews but I couldn't resist watching this, I now know what happens in almost all movies I haven't even seen yet.
great point regarding the remakes naturally falling under the shadow of the original material. The chances that the female remake would be on par with the beloved original male version are low like every other remake is, and it just blurs the lines where the claim that its just a sub-par film making gets mixed up with the impression that females just aren't as good
Wish you included more scenes from the movie as you talked about them. I watched your video just today, but the movie was months ago, so the scenes would refresh my memory and make your critic more enjoyable.
I think I'm in love with you. In all seriousness I totally understand your point. Remakes like Ghostbusters and now Ocean's Eight really remind me of those genderbend AU's of shows and movies I used to make. The only selling point is "your favorite male stars are now women???? how will they act nOw???1?" And sure it can be just mindless fun to see how they would look, but if all you're doing is copy-pasting the script of the original movie and making them females, it feels like a cheap soulless gimmick only to reign in money. I don't know I wanted this movie to be good, because I enjoy a lot of the actresses' work but as a stand alone, it was alright but nothing revolutionary. I also feel like these remakes feed the more ignorant population of fans who just want reasons to dislike women lead films. Wow haha this really long, I'm sorry for my lame ramblings.
See, I thoroughly enjoyed this remake...but most likely, only because I've never seen any of the original Ocean's series. I'm sure if I had seen them I'd be in a similar stance to you. I definitely get the problem of remaking things like this, though; I had VERY low expectations going into the movie due to the Ghostbusters thing (which I...also didn't see but listened to a ton of the rants about). Glad to hear the thoughts of someone that did know the series tho; the group I went with didn't seem to know anything about the original either. I wondered how 8 matched up from a fan's perspective~
I have only one question: why on earth is everybody calling this a "remake" or a "reboot"?? It's a direct sequel that references characters and events from the movies that came before and even has recurring characters. Yes, it's rehashing the same storybeats as its predecessors, but that's simply what a lot of subpar sequels do (including Ocean's 12 and 13) but it is in no way whatsoever a remake.
Recently found your channel and I love it so much. You are so articulate and you always have great insights on tv shows/movies. I’m going to agree with you on this one in regards to remakes. I wish we could have more movies with female leads that are not remakes. Thanks for this video. Loved it.
Only halfway through the video so sorry if this is brought up, but I don't get why people think remaking old movies with female leads is a good feminist movement. Why create something that is going to be compared to a beloved movie and cause a debate? It's better to just make an original story with female leads that doesn't make a big deal out of the fact that the main characters are female (they tend to be treated as females before they're treated as characters, as people) - why does it have to be a 'feminist' story instead of just a story?
QuirksOfTay bc like he said people are more likely to watch them if they are based on popular movies. this serves to normalize women as protags in movies. its pretty simple. also oceans 11 & ghostbusters do treat the characters as characters and not just 'females' (i honestly dont quite know what you mean by that though).
I don’t know if you read it but there was a really interesting article in the New York Times the other day about remaking movies with a female cast. Awesome review like always!
Yes there are more male than female action icons. BUT, the thing to note is the female action icons we have are original and actually good. And I think we agree, that should be the goal. Sarah Connor, Ellen Ripley, Major Motoko Kusanagi, Katniss Everdeen, Lara Croft, Alice (Resident Evil), The Bride (Kill Bill), Selene (Underworld), and hell even Rey in Star Wars even though I think the last 2 movies were hot garbage. These we just some of the leading roles, there are certainly more supporting roles in original ideas that had awesome female roles.
I really feel I'd aprecciate much more a movie about Debbie going out of the jail trying to rebuild a life . We would know this character as she is, not as the sister of this guy, this all could be erased. It's backstory that take a lot of the movie and tell us nothing about her. She is decided to steal this necklace and has ideas about how to do it. She meets her friend Cate Blanchett (forgot her name) and tells her about her intentions. One of the things that annoyed me is how Debbie seemed to have control over the whole situation even had spent years in jail. I think they wanted to show how "good" she is and all, but it just looked unrealistic and a wasted opportunity to create character development. She could build the rest of the plan with the other women. It would be nice to watch they scheming instead of just a bossy oniniscient Sandra bullock telling them what to do. I personally feel that the chemistry among the actresses was the best part of the movie. And this scenario would create a big sense of urgency as the met gala is getting close and they got improv a few things. Debbie would slowly turn from this broken abandoned woman to a heist boss. There you have: character development, exchanges and bonds being created between characteres (what makes them more likeable and relatable), tension and then a sense of victory when the plan succes.
The first Heist film I think of is The Bank Job with Jason Statham. Love that movie but yes Oceans 11 is up there! Great content I just subscribed!! ✊🏿
I think the main problem is that these new movies seem to take away the humanity out of the character, they are perfect in every single way, they have no flaws. The best movies even the best female driven movies have a human Element to the characters and they are not 100% perfect with no flaws. People in the comment section are right though, that movie Annihilation has a large female cast and no one saw it, hell I had never even heard of it until I read the comments. They Hollywood studios do these types of films because they understand the power of the internet, they know it will create a controversy, people will talk and complain about it and it creates a buzz so people go and see it. Can't say they have been all that successful with that approach though.
if they wanted to warm people up to female driven action films, all they had to do was make the black widow film people have been dying to see for ages
I went to the movies w my friends they loved the movie while I hated when they asked how was it I just lied since they were inlove w it,I kinda hated how the movie ended with no consequences
I don’t know how movies like this one and Ghostbusters sell themselves as feminists when all of their female characters are just copies of males. Like... Seriously? Why can’t we have a movie with an original and compelling female lead who isn’t based on a guy?
I know you think original content starring women is more important, and I agree, but you may notice that EVERY film being made is a sequel or a remake or based on a book. Anything that isn't, flops hard. Hollywood prefers to make safe bets, hence the remakes. If you want any different, you better write a book that can make a great movie, cause Hollywood will not bet on anything else.
Hollywood has been filled with morons for decades that think there's an easy button for everything, if Wonder Woman had flopped they'd have said it was because people don't want to see female hero movies, or female lead actions movies.... Or females in movies. - Or that Gal Gadot is poison. It's almost never some reasonable combination of factors, a mathematical coalescence, it's a magic bullet. If Batman V. Superman "flops," it's not because it's a bad movie, with stupid ideas in it - however we know it's not because people are sick of superhero movies since people keep seeing those Marvel things in droves - I know! It's not "light" and "fun" enough, that's the problem, it's not that these iconic characters are essentially unrecognizable, and unrelatable in this visage, it's that "comic books are supposed to be fun" ya know... like "The Dark Knight!" Also let's reflect on the number of dipshit remakes, sequels and adaptation that have come out in the last twenty years, and try to recall how many of them have "flopped" in the eyes of the studios that made them. They're not actually safe bets, people see these movies for the same reason many of them voted in the last presidential election, they were given only shitty options and then asked to "pick one." Sometimes they go with what's familiar, but when they get sick of that...
futurestoryteller yeah quality is not something they understand. These movies get made because they think they understand the magic formula, but there is no quick and easy way to make a good story great.
Unfortunately there's not only no magic formula for figuring it out ahead of time, there's none for the population at large, post release. I can give several examples of things that are objectively better than people think they are, and things that are just awful, that are now, or were at one time, almost universally acclaimed. Personally, I like most of these Marvel movies, but one day we could all wake up and call it a mass hysteria. Quality is not only partially subjective, popularity is at least partly conditional.
Oceans 8 was fun but i will never go see that movie a second time (Unless its on tv). I still watch Oceans Eleven almost every year! Beautiful and great movie, also much more fun with the cast!
There are plenty of remakes/reboots I like and I am generally not against the practice. To me what makes a good remake is when someone takes a film and puts their own spin on it and really makes it their own. Ocean's Eleven is an example of that IMO. Other examples would be Batman Begins, Scarface, The Thing and (if we're allowed to include TV) the likes of Battlestar Galactic and Dr Who.
I think people should just make movies to tell a good story. I don’t care what kind of person is in it, because a characters complexities should be more than just “im a man or a woman” and if it isn’t, it’s a bad movie, because it has characters with no depth, just labels. My favorite action movie is Kill Bill and Black Momba is more than just a woman to me. It’s never even mentioned that it’s weird that she’s a female killer because it ISNT weird or unexpected.
see, i think i really liked oceans 8 for three simple reasons. 1. i am attracted to women. pretty women doing cool things cant go wrong with me 2. ive never seen oceans 11 3. i dont really analyse movies
To expand on your point about remakes: If you remake an already popular/good/great film, it's going to come off as a cash grab and your film will never be able to stand on its own legs. Whenever people think of your film, they will inevitably also think about the one that came before. Even if your remake is good, even if in many ways it is better than the original, people's nostalgia will undermine the popularity of your new take. If you're going to remake a film, chose one that wasn't very popular, that not many people have seen, and then do it better. The best example of this would be John Carpenter's "the thing".
None of these female movies will work right now because they’re doing it as a competition, There’s anger, Art sometimes needs to come from honesty , Truth, and what they’re doing isn’t truth. They can’t just copy what men do, or try to be man, they have to do their own thing. That would be funny, real women doing robberies in their own way. In my opinion.
Ocean's 8 would have worked better if the leads were Julia Roberts and Catherine Zeta-Jones as Tessa and Isabel, if we're still going with an all-ladies squad. These two are already established characters that have connections to the original crew, so we don't need to create a new character out of thin air.
And it's almost insulting, because it's like Hollywood doesn't think original female characters/plotlines won't be successful, so we get second-rate remakes. But there's plenty of evidence otherwise.
I hated this movie. It went by fast but I still felt cheated out of things. There were plot holes and even the ending I was thinking if she was in on it the whole time that would be so much better
You really hit the nail on the head here. Making remakes of beloved films by swapping the gender of the main character does seem like a lazy cash-grab. Original films with female leads interest me much more, as there is a film being releasesd later this year called Peppermint with Jennifer Garner in the lead role which looks quite interesting.
Hollywood's biggest mistake with female characters is that they write them as strong female characters which falls flat and feels forced. Ellen Ripley, one of the most amazing female characters, is a relatable and strong character for herself. She was written as a good character and wasn't reduced to a gimmick. If the new Ghostbusters movie had good characters and humor and made it like the old ones are passing the torch to the new ones no one would have gave a fuck about the genders. Stop making female characters into a gimmick.
Gender swap remakes could work if they made the effort to also be more than just that. Gender swap purism is near impossible to function. It could be function if it had more to it than that. Maybe an experimental take could be interesting, along with setting a distinctly different tone, that's enough to make the movie come into its own and not be trapped in the shadow of its counterpart. Or just go beyond simply gender swap and make absolutely everything about the film the exact opposite except keep the quality good. You can do it, but that alone isn't enough.
Dude I get what you are saying, we do need more original movies. I as a women just find it annoying that when ever there is a new remake or sequel staring women the internet starts hating in it right away, while remakes staring men are often given the benefit of the doubt. For instance spider-man homecoming is a remake and I did not hear anything but praise for it. While Oceans 8 and Ghost busters are immediately criticized for being a remake and its portrayal of women by dude bros on you tube. I just think if we were really looking at this issue equally than there would be a lot more criticism of things like the recent Jurassic park movies and marvel for not being original
it’s not the gender that’s the sole reason for hating these remakes per say, change in race i.e. white washing, change in gender, sexuality, practically anything the deviates heavily from the source material while still trying to benefit from its name seems lazy and tacky, so hate arises from that. Some of my favorite examples include: the ghost busters remake, dragonball evolution, avatar the last air bender and countless others. To simply imply that the opposition to these movies are just sexist is a bit ingenious but in some cases I agree. As for Spider-Man Homecoming, it’s easily arguable it’s the best Spider-Man movie to date, with no major deviations to the source (comics) that hinder the story, if anything the changes made enhanced our experience by making the movie more relatable.
I am not saying that all criticism of these movies are sexist, although I understand why you might take my comment that way. All I am saying is I think female lead remakes get way more criticism and are given less of a chance to be appreciated than other remakes lead by men that are equally as good or bad. For instance when The Force Awakens came out everyone seemed to jump on Rey for being a ¨marry sue.¨ When is the last time a male character was widely criticized for being to good at stuff? I just feel like critics are using words like ¨marry sue¨ and complaints about originality to express a feeling they are not comfortable saying aloud. The feeling that their boys club is being invaded by all kinds of female characters badly written or otherwise.
I totally agree that things like ghost busters are pandering to audiences and that a lot of them are not good movies. However my point is that male lead films just as bad are given the benefit of the doubt while female lead movies most often are not. Movies like the endless James Bond remakes and transformers films pander to nostalgia yet they do not get as much hate. I think this is bullshit that is all.
it sucks that when companies come out with movies like this, a lot of people, including me, feel sort of obligated to see and like it. any lack of interest or criticism from the masses will be takes as "oh, we should make less movies with women" instead of "oh, we should make better movies with women"
Don't you dare say gender swap doesn't work on film, because Howard Hawks did it back in 1940 with His Girl Friday and it worked wonderfully (Of course unlike these films, he did it with an intention to add on the original)
John Wick = Cool Atomic Blonde = Cool John Wick gender-swap remake called "Jane Wick" = ehhhh My sister was raised on Xena, Buffy, Wonder Woman, etc. Major franchises like Alien and Halloween have a core female lead that drives most of the movies in very impactful ways, and those arrived in the 1970s. This narrative that women haven't been in action/horror movies as important figures until recently gives too much credit to certain modern shitty movies (that rarely provide true strong female characters anyway) and ignores classics that continue to be very culturally significant. The majority of people don't disregard movies because women are in it, they disregard movies because they either carry strong political agendas representing only one side to "teach" the audience a lesson, or the movie looks terrible, or both. Studios exploit alleged "sexism" to beef up support for the movie - no wonder it was revealed that the Ghostbusters remake intentionally highlighted sexist comments and deleted general criticism for it to create a campaign surrounding the movie....to fool people into supporting a BAD movie just to defend women against a sexist small minority.
My friend and I saw this and tried so hard not to laugh because of the shitty windows movie maker transitions. I know that's a little nitpicky, but it was kind of ridiculous lol
Gender swap remakes make me feel like female characters are considered secondary, which is funny because it's completely contradictory to the purpose of the remake.
The whole purpose is just to cash in on the success of another movie while also gaining a lot of controversy from film buffs and guys who don't care about female characters. Plus, it's trying desperately to widen the demographic to more women without putting in effort.
It's not we don't care about female characters but just most films don't focus on females and some people hate on these gender swap films because they are unrightfully getting praised because of the nostalgic value most people get just from the name of some films
Yeah, the new age Hollywood elites only care about “vehicles” to push their political ideology and somewhat false narratives. I think they would use more original IPs but they are creatively bankrupt, so soft remake reboot sequel prequels are whats done to franchises with fan bases that have supported said franchises for decades
Maybe these creators/filmmakers have a incredible amount of disdain for these franchises in the first place, so maybe they think “why not…..we can anger the nerds while possibly creating a success. If not, at least we got a kill”. But idk, it might have to do with a company wanting to keep the rights so the make trash to keep the license going like Fantastic Four ‘94.
If i were to be honest, I’d say that there has been a lot of box checking, diversity and gen z hires (nothing wrong with that for the most part, people get old and new humans grow up to be the next gen- Captain Obvious). But the difference now being the very toxic and hatred fueled hires either sabotage to then get a pat on the head instead of being fired OR its to gain woke political points instead of cash (which would be insane to consider but we have a plethora of examples from the past 6 years)
Regardless….its a very strange time we are in but i doubt future scholars will be kind to this era lol. All i know its a shame just how many missed opportunities there has been recently
I really appreciate this review. Every time I try to argue that we should just be creating new original stories with female leads instead of making female-lead versions of male-led action films, other women always get confused or upset with my opinion (especially seeing that I am a woman). I feel like the artistic value just fades when we make these sorts of remakes... It's just my opinion though, maybe I just don't understand.
What, you don't want Captain Marvel, X-23, Jane Foster Thor, Batgirl, Supergirl, Hawkgirl, Spider-Gwen and She-Hulk movies to be the next phase of superhero movies?!?
/s
Gabbi Orivaa No, no. You make a great point.
- A Human Female
I agree with you totally! I mean I don't even think that this practice is feminist, because they are taking men's roles, I want a new movie with great women, I don't want to see great actresses doing male roles, it's like they are taking the men's seconds I don't like that. I want new movies! There has to be a new scrpit out there that nobody cares about but it's actually great.
No you’re right. It does nothing but contribute to Hollywood’s unoriginality and it makes it seem like minority characters can’t have a good story without borrowing everything from the majority.
Unoriginal stories and the lack of overall creativity and the ability to write interesting characters within interesting stories is the sole reason Marvel Comics is failing right now, like I've been saying it for years when you create something to push an agenda whatever that maybe, on what ever side it's on. It's going to be shit because your relaying on factors that will inherently not tell a good story.
In my opinion remakes are only justified when they improve on the original or give it an interesting spin (an actual spin, not just saying "this story but IN SPACE, or WITH WOMEN")
Magalí I. B. I completely agree. It’s so hard now to find movies that take an interesting spin on the original. I think the only recent example is Prometheus and maybe Mad Max. Most sequels and remakes just feel like rehashes (here’s hoping Fallen Kingdom isn’t a pile of dinosaur crap!)
Magalí I. B.
I think the best justification is "this movie was shit, but I like the story. Lets make it again, but better."
In contrast, I typically don't like remakes of good movies.
Its. Not. A. Remake. That's where people are getting it wrong. It's a sequel.
Magalí I. B. Agree 💯💯.
Magalí I. B. Robbing diamonds from an event isn't a spin? I thought it was
iM aAn aDuLT vIrGiN
Pocket Mac I love that vine SO MUCH
😭😭😭
I agree. Giving women movie roles that have already been established by men isn't progression, it's regression. It's kind of like how, in comics, we have Supergirl, Batgirl, Spider-Woman, Captain Marvel, and She-Hulk. I know that there are plenty of female superheroes who are original, but the ones I mentioned are some of the most know, and they're all offshoots of male superheroes that were already established.
The Descent and Annihilation are, in my opinion, two very good, original movies that feature an all-female lead cast. And they don't draw attention to the fact that, "Hey! Look at us! We don't need no stinkin' men!", they just inhabit the movie they're in, and because of that, they don't stand out as movies that were made to placate female audiences. They're simply great movies, because the acting and plot was great.
Sincerely,
Just a guy, with no SJW agenda, who loves movies.
not a remake all the roles are original
Word Unheard Spider-Woman isn't an offshoot of Spider-Man though. She just happens to have a name that's similar. And red on her costume. But I agree with the rest.
If you make it a point to "push back" against the supposed "social injustice" of "social justice warriors" you're a social justice warrior - with an agenda. I'm sorry, you don't get to pick a side in a war and claim not to be warrior. It's ridiculous, no matter how many hundred of people give you dabs. It's like you gave a political opinion and then claimed not to have a political agenda. It's not how this works, but it's fashionable to say that it does. Also, your criticism exposes a fatal flaw in itself because Batgirl, Captain Marvel, and She-Hulk in particular are often considered iconic, well written, well rounded characters in their own right. So those examples qualify as a heap of evidence that you can do the distaff counterpart and not sacrifice or undermine the individuality that comes with making a "new" character.
@futurestoryteller
Sorry, I didn't read all of that.
...who are you, again?
Someone who can read and doesn't have the attention span of an 8 month old.
just a friendly reminder: Hayao Miyazaki's films always (or usually) have a female protag. and they're all great.
and feminists don't care anyway, so why bother?
Kronn yeah those and Silent Voice are really great. Series are usually better on having a main character, with agency and who's female. Honestly a movie with any token minority as a main character is rare outside of Drama Oscar bait
That's not Hollywood. Studio Ghili's in a completely different ballpark
*Ghibli
@@Spazzboy911 Said who, bro? I care.
As soon as the movie ended, my friend said to me, "They didn't really have any complications" - and that's probably the only flaw. The closest I got to being worried was when Amina almost lost them in the sink. Nothing went wrong.
The Mary Sue Effect or the Superman effect
When nothing is at stake or no fear of failing….you have these horrible movies and shows smh
Yesssssss you explain everything so well. And this phenomenon is even worse, I think, because movies like Annihilation don't get the attention they deserve for actually doing what Ocean's 8 and Ghostbusters advertise.
Karina Marquez How was Annihilation?
Annihilation is in my top 5 movies. Great story, great cast, great visuals\audio
Why not just make an all female cast heist film. I LOVE heist films,games and stories but I was put off by this film because of the stigma and the fact it's a remake. Make original films!!
"Like Ocean's 14!"
Sorry, I just caught the fact that you didn't say anywhere that you were put off by the film being the fourth in a washed up franchise that's now 17 years old.
Widows, watch widows! Its an all female heist and it's awesome!
I really really wish that you would do a video on The Handmaid's Tale. It is one of the most visually stunning shows I have seen and I would absolutely love to see your take on it
Hemath63 !!!!!!!
Holy shit, people. Boost the fuck out of this comment, please. I hope he sees this.
I love The Handmaids Tale but I feel like it's starting to become what NBC Hannibal became which was too artsy. Both began to focus more on visual storytelling than actual dialogue and it seems far too artsy. It's not a bad a thing just not my style.I hope he does do a video on the show though!
I had mixed feelings about the book (great satire and imagery, presentation leaves something to be desired) but haven’t see the show yet. Maybe I’ll review it in its entirety once it finishes
Rose Lee Lmao I on the other hand am in love with how "artsy" Hannibal got by its third season.
"Maybe I’ll review it in its entirety once it finishes"
I love this new policy people have adopted, of waiting until a show is over to watch it. Programming used to be all about ratings and syndication.The TV landscape is so different now. So much more nuanced, so much more cinematic, so much more competitive. Not to mention the freedom of choice on-demand viewing delivers. I mean - It's not as if a show could get prematurely _canceled_ because a significant portion of its target demographic will happily wait several *years* to watch a single episode.
Did Hollywood forget about Alien, Terminator, Kill Bill, Underworld, The Matrix, etcetera? Women have either starred in or played a prominent role in some of the most popular action/action-related movies of all time!
youraverageevilpoet anything not 10 years old?
Also there's almost no extras, no quirky side characters anymore
Celina k Well my point was that Hollywood seems to think society is misogynist and needs to get acclimated to women in action movie roles, when historically there’s been a lot of success on that front. As for recent films I’d say Wonder Woman, Mad Max: Fury Road, Atomic Blonde, and You’re Next are solid examples. In fact, speaking of the last one, the Horror genre has a proud tradition of scream queens and final girls.
These weren't frequent affairs then tho. Were they? The group of women-led films is still small, imo. Even historically speaking. Plus there are additional concerns like - does it pass the Bechdel Test? Does it have multiple female characters in ensemble cast films (cos the trend is usually to have like ten guys and one woman. I know, I know. I am exaggerating. But still...)? Is the prominent female character an eventual love interest? If sexual assault or abuse or trauma is part of the female character's narrative, is it addressed properly and with care? These are important considerations - to me atleast - when it comes to figuring out if the "woman" factor is any more important in a film than the standard hollywood product or not. And not many films pass the test.
I want to see women-led women-produced content in all kinds of genres and I want to see it way waaaay more frequently.
This is not an attack on you comment, OP. I, by no means, am suggesting that the existing classics featuring female protagonists or main characters should not celebrated. I just want it done better and more often.
@@oof-rr5nf As many great people have said, statistical disparity does not indicate discrimination. If there is a GOOD female-led, female-produced movie, people will watch it. You must also consider that if a movie does not pass the Bechdel test, it is most certainly the result of poor writing, not discrimination (it is shown that movies that pass the test, financially outperform the ones that don't - and what studio would actively discriminate in this manner if it is financially detrimental?!). Your grievance is more with human nature and biological interests rather than worldwide conspiratorial discrimination.
Does anyone else feel like they're trying to say these are the first female-lead action movies ever? It's like they suddenly forgot about Foxy Brown, Alien, Terminator 2, Bad Girls... Hollywood is not doing anything new.
When I think of female action roles the first two movies that come to my mind are Mad Max Fury Road and Atomic Blonde. Amazing movies and both starring Charlize Theron.
In the case of Mad Max there was previous movies with lead roles of a man, but the new one was totally fresh and great in its own way.
It kind of helps that Max is the kind of protagonist who just shows up into other people's conflicts and gets involved. At least in Road Warrior, but people tell me that's the best one, so I think it's worth mentioning.
So female movies only work if they are macho and aggressive like males. The best male movies are movies about close friendship like "I Love You Man", "Pineapple Express", and "Super Bad"
I call these reboots pop culture hand me downs, let younger people or minorities have their own culture not leftovers
I really don't see this problem of female driven action films. There are plenty of great female hero characters like Katniss and Ripley. I just want the movie to be good. I don't care if it's about men or women.
Melissa
I believe the issue is the remaking. I personally don't really care either, but if you're going to make a movie, creativity should be a priority, otherwise, why not just rewatch old movies
Absolutely. Hollywood has a definite problem. I agree with him that remaking a so-so or bad movie usually works better than remaking a great one. I also think a remake can work if you take the film in a completely different direction. Unfortunately, like you said, they rarely try to be creative.
Maró Luna youre right. only 24% of protags of the top 100 grossing films are female. you may not care if they are male or female (or think you may not care) but that doesnt change the reality, which is why even shitty higher budget movies matter in changing the status quo.
Studios don't do anything for the sake of being "progressive." I long for the days when "exploitation" was the dirty word and not "progress"
@@futurestoryteller Them being "progressive" is the same as exploitation essentially, because studios (for some reason) think doing stuff like makes money. Call it exploitation if you want, but the thing they're exploiting is in HEAVY quotes here, "progress".
4:05 lol. I saw this one with my parents.
chatting/kissing couples my age on each side of us.
-
-
and yeah. Decent fun flick that I forgot about after dinner.
But I Was happy to realize afterwards that the movie hadn’t forced us to be hyper aware of their gender the whole time, like many movies do when they tokenize female characters. I mean, they are undeniably confidently feminine, but it was a relief to just get to watch them as a mixed gang of people, without constantly having it shoved in our face that they are WOMEN people, as though that’s some special thing. (I mean it still may be, but dose more to play it cool within the film)
And no abnoxious anti-male sexist hypocrisy stood out to me either. They didn’t seem to be pandering to any ideologies.
They picked one good moment for Debbie to make a girl power statement to the mirror right before the heist... and they gave it just the right irreverent punchline (
It was more normalizing.
Kinda forgettable, but did it’s part contributing to normalizing casts of women leads.
What do you mean when you say "anti-male", OP? Which movies have subjected you to this? Sincere question.
Top notch vine usage
6:36 the thing about Oceans 12 was that it wasn’t well received because it was trying to be extremely different from the first one. Which in a way has made it age pretty well.
The reason why they made this with women is principally because Clooney has declared there won't be sequels after 13 because of the death of Bernie Mac and they wanted to bring the franchise back.
You are right. Ocean's Eleven comes to my mind first when i hear heist. But i enjoyed the sequels. I actually would like Twelve more if it wasn't for this one very stupid Julia Roberts - moment
HAL 9000 same i loked the sequals except that scene
I love hating that Julia Roberts scene. It's so lazy to the point it's laughable.
Oceans's 13 was actually almost as good as 11. 12 was Meh...very forgettable.
He cute.
I can't see why Hollywood would think we need 'warming up' for original female led action movies. Loads of us went to the cinema to see wonder woman, and it was really fun.
Andrew Dixon Wonder Woman isn't really an original movie though. It's based on a decades old comic character that already had a tv show, animated movie and multiple appearances in video games and animated shows/movies. And many people went to see it because they wanted to see if the DCEU (which was founded on two most popular male comic characters) could get better.
While stuff like Atomic Blonde, while being R rated, was seen by many people. I personally don't like it, but there were still people who enjoyed it. It is still not "original" since it's based on a comic, but it's "original" as in "the first time the character/story are seen on screen.
Niko Miller Loads of the younger generation won't remember her TV show or comics. Most people don't care about seeing if DC crash and burn. What I'm getting at is that this isn't a gender-switched film franchise, and it did really well.
Heck, we was watching Hellraiser 2 the other night and had loads of fun. It was only at the end of the movie that I realised that there was probably more women than men in leading roles. I've seen that movie loads, and never noticed.
Oh, and tankgirl. We need more characters like tankgirl.
6:47 That's exactly why I hated the idea of female remake of Ghostbusters despite not being interested about the original.
I have to agree with this. No matter how badly I want to see female lead characters, give them their _own_ stories. To write us into male dominated stories shows us being fit into the heroism that was written out for a man because we can't find our own. Women are their own people, not just Handmaid's Tale-esque offred's/ of-men's.
The thing is, I totally agree that women need their own original films so that they're not just living in the shadows of men. HOWEVER while I feel like a lot of people would agree with this sentiment, not many put it into practice, the best example being "Annihilation" (The Red Letter Media UA-cam review of this movie explains how I feel perfectly.) The movie really should have been a big success when you compare it against films like the "Ghostbusters" remake; it had a cast of actual smart women who weren't going to make cheap jokes the whole time, there was at least one big star to sell tickets, it did a lot of advertising, and was even a genre everyone seems to be enjoying right now, scifi. It got a decent score on Rotten Tomatoes, and is based off a book which everyone is always so eager to see. Despite all this, it was basically a flop. I mean, "Truth or Dare" made more in theaters, how sad is that. We all can say what we like about how women need their own roles, because it clearly doesn't sell, at least not yet.
Sarah McDonald i havent Seen annihilation yet but im exited for it. Wanna read the book first. I believe the book isnt as well known to be an actual selling point for the movie. Its the first of a trilogy which could be a Problem. The director Alex Garland is great but more known for his screenwriting (28 days later, sunshine) rather than directing (ex machina). The Ghostbusters Remake could build on the original movies and it had the controversies (man Hating, Feminism,...) so IMO the Ghostbusters Remake would have a better Chance to become successful. Please excuse my english skills. Im not a native speaker
It was a flop because they released it on Netflix instead of in cinemas outside of USA. I know a few people who wanted to see it in cinemas when the first trailer came out. But it didn't, so it earned less money.
I think the ending kinda sucked lol. It just kinda felt like "okay done"
I'm a feminist and a woman and I agree with everything you said. To show female empowerment don't have them be the she-versions of pre-existing male characters. We are our own persons so should be our characters. Enough with the Supergirls and Batgirls.
The best female-driven action film (and one of the greatest action movies of all time) is Kill Bill. And guess what? It's original.
The tension could be because Lou and Debbie might've been a couple before Debbie went to jail. It's just a theory tho.
I mean they were so gay for each other. Someone needs to tell the writers tho.
carmen ponce I AM ALL FOR IT
At one point Lou says they were having a "rough patch"
I actually wanted to see this until I realized it was an Ocean’s # film. Then it just felt like someone was trying to sell me something. This whole idea that we need to be “warmed up” to see a female driven whatever is pretty unrealistic. There are plenty of female led films in the past that prove audiences don’t care about something so trivial. We just want great films, period.
its very realistic, because female driven films hardly ever make it at the box office, so obviously the audience needs to be warmed up... get a clue
BlueG The top three highest grossing films of last year all featured a female main protagonist.
Inspired Shane oh wow! ok now try 2016, then 2015 then 2014 and then look at 2018... are we really going to take an exception as the norm? also beauty and the beast and star wars all have built in audiences that have more to do with the total gross then the actual characters...
BlueG The Hunger Games. Twilight. Frozen. Alien. Erin Brockovich. Thelma and Louise. Mad Max: Fury Road. Bridesmaids. Hereditary. Tomb Raider. Gone Girl. Fifty Shades of Grey. Kill Bill. Monster. Black Swan.
I’m picking and choosing here. There are SO many examples, and they’re pretty easy to find considering literally half the planet is comprised of women.
biggest 100 films of all time... if you can pick out 10 films in there that are lead by women, that did not have a build in audience before going to film... so books and games.
www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/
I kind of agree with you - female remakes aren't progression. However, I really enjoyed this movie in its own right, and it was fantastic to see that many talented women on the screen! This might be simplistic, but I enjoyed this movie, I thought the acting was good and the plot was interesting. For me, that is enough. It's also worth pointing out that this wasn't a remake.
I am trying to make a remake based on a nearly 20 year old TV series which was itself based on a book series, because I felt that the original was executed poorly and was made at the wrong time. This means I support remakes if they improve on the original’s mistakes and create their own identity. For example, the Percy Jackson movie was a terrible adaptation so a remake could in all likelihood be seen as the definitive edition.
Real News and Stuff I hope Percy Jackson pops up as a bombass series before my demise.
Just tossing it out there that there is a Percy Jackson musical that popped up a year called "The Lightning Thief." I'm not certain if it's complete trash since I half listened to only the opening song; only know about it because I heard it's doing a North American tour. If someone is crazy enough to successfully create a musical of Riordan's story, there has to be hope for a theatrical (film) remake someday.
Asummersdaydreamer14 Thanks, I'll look it up :)
lol huh, so youtube finally recommends me another channel that is growing into one of my favorites.
Being female i 'd rather identify with a cool male hero than a Mary sue or Anastasia stil
Emma Obry a lot of male heroes are marty stus
Shut the fuck up
I wanted to watch the movie before watching any reviews but I couldn't resist watching this, I now know what happens in almost all movies I haven't even seen yet.
Nice video dude. I almost got trailer baited by this movie
great point regarding the remakes naturally falling under the shadow of the original material. The chances that the female remake would be on par with the beloved original male version are low like every other remake is, and it just blurs the lines where the claim that its just a sub-par film making gets mixed up with the impression that females just aren't as good
Wish you included more scenes from the movie as you talked about them. I watched your video just today, but the movie was months ago, so the scenes would refresh my memory and make your critic more enjoyable.
I think I'm in love with you.
In all seriousness I totally understand your point. Remakes like Ghostbusters and now Ocean's Eight really remind me of those genderbend AU's of shows and movies I used to make. The only selling point is "your favorite male stars are now women???? how will they act nOw???1?" And sure it can be just mindless fun to see how they would look, but if all you're doing is copy-pasting the script of the original movie and making them females, it feels like a cheap soulless gimmick only to reign in money. I don't know I wanted this movie to be good, because I enjoy a lot of the actresses' work but as a stand alone, it was alright but nothing revolutionary. I also feel like these remakes feed the more ignorant population of fans who just want reasons to dislike women lead films. Wow haha this really long, I'm sorry for my lame ramblings.
Honestly when I think of "heist" I think of PayDay.
See, I thoroughly enjoyed this remake...but most likely, only because I've never seen any of the original Ocean's series. I'm sure if I had seen them I'd be in a similar stance to you.
I definitely get the problem of remaking things like this, though; I had VERY low expectations going into the movie due to the Ghostbusters thing (which I...also didn't see but listened to a ton of the rants about).
Glad to hear the thoughts of someone that did know the series tho; the group I went with didn't seem to know anything about the original either. I wondered how 8 matched up from a fan's perspective~
I have only one question: why on earth is everybody calling this a "remake" or a "reboot"?? It's a direct sequel that references characters and events from the movies that came before and even has recurring characters. Yes, it's rehashing the same storybeats as its predecessors, but that's simply what a lot of subpar sequels do (including Ocean's 12 and 13) but it is in no way whatsoever a remake.
OMG this movie would be way better if it was something new instead of a Oceans wannabe
Recently found your channel and I love it so much. You are so articulate and you always have great insights on tv shows/movies. I’m going to agree with you on this one in regards to remakes. I wish we could have more movies with female leads that are not remakes. Thanks for this video. Loved it.
if you made a review on every movie in existence I would spend my whole life watching you. Very entertaining sir as always!
Dude, Taylor, I don't know why, but a high skin fade with a lineup, goatee, and edged-up moustache would look so good on you, my guy.
Only halfway through the video so sorry if this is brought up, but I don't get why people think remaking old movies with female leads is a good feminist movement. Why create something that is going to be compared to a beloved movie and cause a debate? It's better to just make an original story with female leads that doesn't make a big deal out of the fact that the main characters are female (they tend to be treated as females before they're treated as characters, as people) - why does it have to be a 'feminist' story instead of just a story?
QuirksOfTay bc like he said people are more likely to watch them if they are based on popular movies. this serves to normalize women as protags in movies. its pretty simple. also oceans 11 & ghostbusters do treat the characters as characters and not just 'females' (i honestly dont quite know what you mean by that though).
Mindy KAY-ling, not KAH-ling, but I agree with your analysis of her performance
She is so annoying. And a pretty terrible actress.
I was having a shitty day but seeing you made a video made me feel better
I don’t know if you read it but there was a really interesting article in the New York Times the other day about remaking movies with a female cast. Awesome review like always!
Yes there are more male than female action icons. BUT, the thing to note is the female action icons we have are original and actually good. And I think we agree, that should be the goal.
Sarah Connor, Ellen Ripley, Major Motoko Kusanagi, Katniss Everdeen, Lara Croft, Alice (Resident Evil), The Bride (Kill Bill), Selene (Underworld), and hell even Rey in Star Wars even though I think the last 2 movies were hot garbage.
These we just some of the leading roles, there are certainly more supporting roles in original ideas that had awesome female roles.
If we aren’t free to criticize women in the same manner that we would men, then it is a gentler form of sexual discrimination.
Red Sparrow and atomic blonde seem pretty good
Atomic Blonde, Mad Max Fury Road... both are good examples of female-centric action films.
I really feel I'd aprecciate much more a movie about Debbie going out of the jail trying to rebuild a life . We would know this character as she is, not as the sister of this guy, this all could be erased. It's backstory that take a lot of the movie and tell us nothing about her. She is decided to steal this necklace and has ideas about how to do it. She meets her friend Cate Blanchett (forgot her name) and tells her about her intentions. One of the things that annoyed me is how Debbie seemed to have control over the whole situation even had spent years in jail. I think they wanted to show how "good" she is and all, but it just looked unrealistic and a wasted opportunity to create character development. She could build the rest of the plan with the other women. It would be nice to watch they scheming instead of just a bossy oniniscient Sandra bullock telling them what to do. I personally feel that the chemistry among the actresses was the best part of the movie. And this scenario would create a big sense of urgency as the met gala is getting close and they got improv a few things.
Debbie would slowly turn from this broken abandoned woman to a heist boss.
There you have: character development, exchanges and bonds being created between characteres (what makes them more likeable and relatable), tension and then a sense of victory when the plan succes.
The first Heist film I think of is The Bank Job with Jason Statham. Love that movie but yes Oceans 11 is up there! Great content I just subscribed!! ✊🏿
I got an oceans 8 ad for this video, I hope you’re proud
I think the main problem is that these new movies seem to take away the humanity out of the character, they are perfect in every single way, they have no flaws. The best movies even the best female driven movies have a human Element to the characters and they are not 100% perfect with no flaws. People in the comment section are right though, that movie Annihilation has a large female cast and no one saw it, hell I had never even heard of it until I read the comments. They Hollywood studios do these types of films because they understand the power of the internet, they know it will create a controversy, people will talk and complain about it and it creates a buzz so people go and see it. Can't say they have been all that successful with that approach though.
I think they were trying to make a trilogy with danny coming back in the third film
if they wanted to warm people up to female driven action films, all they had to do was make the black widow film people have been dying to see for ages
I went to the movies w my friends they loved the movie while I hated when they asked how was it I just lied since they were inlove w it,I kinda hated how the movie ended with no consequences
If you still havent seen the sequels... you are missing out.
I don’t know how movies like this one and Ghostbusters sell themselves as feminists when all of their female characters are just copies of males. Like... Seriously? Why can’t we have a movie with an original and compelling female lead who isn’t based on a guy?
I know you think original content starring women is more important, and I agree, but you may notice that EVERY film being made is a sequel or a remake or based on a book. Anything that isn't, flops hard. Hollywood prefers to make safe bets, hence the remakes. If you want any different, you better write a book that can make a great movie, cause Hollywood will not bet on anything else.
Hollywood has been filled with morons for decades that think there's an easy button for everything, if Wonder Woman had flopped they'd have said it was because people don't want to see female hero movies, or female lead actions movies.... Or females in movies. - Or that Gal Gadot is poison. It's almost never some reasonable combination of factors, a mathematical coalescence, it's a magic bullet. If Batman V. Superman "flops," it's not because it's a bad movie, with stupid ideas in it - however we know it's not because people are sick of superhero movies since people keep seeing those Marvel things in droves - I know! It's not "light" and "fun" enough, that's the problem, it's not that these iconic characters are essentially unrecognizable, and unrelatable in this visage, it's that "comic books are supposed to be fun" ya know... like "The Dark Knight!" Also let's reflect on the number of dipshit remakes, sequels and adaptation that have come out in the last twenty years, and try to recall how many of them have "flopped" in the eyes of the studios that made them. They're not actually safe bets, people see these movies for the same reason many of them voted in the last presidential election, they were given only shitty options and then asked to "pick one." Sometimes they go with what's familiar, but when they get sick of that...
futurestoryteller yeah quality is not something they understand. These movies get made because they think they understand the magic formula, but there is no quick and easy way to make a good story great.
Unfortunately there's not only no magic formula for figuring it out ahead of time, there's none for the population at large, post release. I can give several examples of things that are objectively better than people think they are, and things that are just awful, that are now, or were at one time, almost universally acclaimed. Personally, I like most of these Marvel movies, but one day we could all wake up and call it a mass hysteria. Quality is not only partially subjective, popularity is at least partly conditional.
If it's interesting it'll work.
I didn't realize that the original ocean 11 was anything more than decent. Lol
Oceans 8 was fun but i will never go see that movie a second time (Unless its on tv). I still watch Oceans Eleven almost every year! Beautiful and great movie, also much more fun with the cast!
There are plenty of remakes/reboots I like and I am generally not against the practice.
To me what makes a good remake is when someone takes a film and puts their own spin on it and really makes it their own. Ocean's Eleven is an example of that IMO. Other examples would be Batman Begins, Scarface, The Thing and (if we're allowed to include TV) the likes of Battlestar Galactic and Dr Who.
Soderbergs 11 is such a fun movie I love it
The first thing that comes to my mind when I hear "heist movie" is Bottle Rocket.
I actually got an ad before this video. It was a tampon ad.
(Period jokes are freakin’ hilarious, come at me)
Imagine rebooting a remake
I think people should just make movies to tell a good story. I don’t care what kind of person is in it, because a characters complexities should be more than just “im a man or a woman” and if it isn’t, it’s a bad movie, because it has characters with no depth, just labels. My favorite action movie is Kill Bill and Black Momba is more than just a woman to me. It’s never even mentioned that it’s weird that she’s a female killer because it ISNT weird or unexpected.
Oceans's Eleven remake was made on the basis of a different mindset. It wasn't tryhard.
see, i think i really liked oceans 8 for three simple reasons.
1. i am attracted to women. pretty women doing cool things cant go wrong with me
2. ive never seen oceans 11
3. i dont really analyse movies
I've been waiting for this!!!!! Thank you!
To expand on your point about remakes: If you remake an already popular/good/great film, it's going to come off as a cash grab and your film will never be able to stand on its own legs. Whenever people think of your film, they will inevitably also think about the one that came before. Even if your remake is good, even if in many ways it is better than the original, people's nostalgia will undermine the popularity of your new take. If you're going to remake a film, chose one that wasn't very popular, that not many people have seen, and then do it better. The best example of this would be John Carpenter's "the thing".
Hey, dad uploaded again
That Ben Shapiro clip took me aback.
Some of my favorite films growing up were the Underworld movies, and if Selene got gender-swapped in a reboot it would be garbage.
God i always hated the vine you put at the beginning, nice video as always tho
None of these female movies will work right now because they’re doing it as a competition,
There’s anger,
Art sometimes needs to come from honesty ,
Truth, and what they’re doing isn’t truth.
They can’t just copy what men do, or try to be man, they have to do their own thing.
That would be funny, real women doing robberies in their own way.
In my opinion.
Ocean's 8 would have worked better if the leads were Julia Roberts and Catherine Zeta-Jones as Tessa and Isabel, if we're still going with an all-ladies squad. These two are already established characters that have connections to the original crew, so we don't need to create a new character out of thin air.
And it's almost insulting, because it's like Hollywood doesn't think original female characters/plotlines won't be successful, so we get second-rate remakes. But there's plenty of evidence otherwise.
There is a light-years better Ocean's 8 film. It is called Widows, by Steve McQueen.
"ocean's 8 is passable 6/10"
my brain: true dat
my lil gay heart: *IT IS DEEPLY ENGRAVED IN MY SOUL*
I hated this movie. It went by fast but I still felt cheated out of things. There were plot holes and even the ending I was thinking if she was in on it the whole time that would be so much better
We need more Furiosa characters
You really hit the nail on the head here. Making remakes of beloved films by swapping the gender of the main character does seem like a lazy cash-grab. Original films with female leads interest me much more, as there is a film being releasesd later this year called Peppermint with Jennifer Garner in the lead role which looks quite interesting.
Hollywood's biggest mistake with female characters is that they write them as strong female characters which falls flat and feels forced. Ellen Ripley, one of the most amazing female characters, is a relatable and strong character for herself. She was written as a good character and wasn't reduced to a gimmick. If the new Ghostbusters movie had good characters and humor and made it like the old ones are passing the torch to the new ones no one would have gave a fuck about the genders. Stop making female characters into a gimmick.
Gender swap remakes could work if they made the effort to also be more than just that. Gender swap purism is near impossible to function. It could be function if it had more to it than that. Maybe an experimental take could be interesting, along with setting a distinctly different tone, that's enough to make the movie come into its own and not be trapped in the shadow of its counterpart. Or just go beyond simply gender swap and make absolutely everything about the film the exact opposite except keep the quality good. You can do it, but that alone isn't enough.
This review came out 3 hrs ago. I watched this in cinema 3 hrs ago. It's fate.
Dude I get what you are saying, we do need more original movies. I as a women just find it annoying that when ever there is a new remake or sequel staring women the internet starts hating in it right away, while remakes staring men are often given the benefit of the doubt. For instance spider-man homecoming is a remake and I did not hear anything but praise for it. While Oceans 8 and Ghost busters are immediately criticized for being a remake and its portrayal of women by dude bros on you tube. I just think if we were really looking at this issue equally than there would be a lot more criticism of things like the recent Jurassic park movies and marvel for not being original
it’s not the gender that’s the sole reason for hating these remakes per say, change in race i.e. white washing, change in gender, sexuality, practically anything the deviates heavily from the source material while still trying to benefit from its name seems lazy and tacky, so hate arises from that. Some of my favorite examples include: the ghost busters remake, dragonball evolution, avatar the last air bender and countless others. To simply imply that the opposition to these movies are just sexist is a bit ingenious but in some cases I agree. As for Spider-Man Homecoming, it’s easily arguable it’s the best Spider-Man movie to date, with no major deviations to the source (comics) that hinder the story, if anything the changes made enhanced our experience by making the movie more relatable.
because most of the material Marvel gets its hands on turns out well, while when they just remake it with women it doesn’t turn out as well
I am not saying that all criticism of these movies are sexist, although I understand why you might take my comment that way. All I am saying is I think female lead remakes get way more criticism and are given less of a chance to be appreciated than other remakes lead by men that are equally as good or bad. For instance when The Force Awakens came out everyone seemed to jump on Rey for being a ¨marry sue.¨ When is the last time a male character was widely criticized for being to good at stuff? I just feel like critics are using words like ¨marry sue¨ and complaints about originality to express a feeling they are not comfortable saying aloud. The feeling that their boys club is being invaded by all kinds of female characters badly written or otherwise.
poser
I totally agree that things like ghost busters are pandering to audiences and that a lot of them are not good movies. However my point is that male lead films just as bad are given the benefit of the doubt while female lead movies most often are not. Movies like the endless James Bond remakes and transformers films pander to nostalgia yet they do not get as much hate. I think this is bullshit that is all.
Seems like people constantly forget TERMINATOR and ALIEN as female led sci -fi action films.
It is probably because that those characters are not the title roles or the most iconic part of the movie
People would never watch an original female-led action film! That's ridiculous! Oh wait.
it sucks that when companies come out with movies like this, a lot of people, including me, feel sort of obligated to see and like it. any lack of interest or criticism from the masses will be takes as "oh, we should make less movies with women" instead of "oh, we should make better movies with women"
Don't you dare say gender swap doesn't work on film, because Howard Hawks did it back in 1940 with His Girl Friday and it worked wonderfully (Of course unlike these films, he did it with an intention to add on the original)
you did this so well
John Wick = Cool
Atomic Blonde = Cool
John Wick gender-swap remake called "Jane Wick" = ehhhh
My sister was raised on Xena, Buffy, Wonder Woman, etc. Major franchises like Alien and Halloween have a core female lead that drives most of the movies in very impactful ways, and those arrived in the 1970s. This narrative that women haven't been in action/horror movies as important figures until recently gives too much credit to certain modern shitty movies (that rarely provide true strong female characters anyway) and ignores classics that continue to be very culturally significant. The majority of people don't disregard movies because women are in it, they disregard movies because they either carry strong political agendas representing only one side to "teach" the audience a lesson, or the movie looks terrible, or both. Studios exploit alleged "sexism" to beef up support for the movie - no wonder it was revealed that the Ghostbusters remake intentionally highlighted sexist comments and deleted general criticism for it to create a campaign surrounding the movie....to fool people into supporting a BAD movie just to defend women against a sexist small minority.
My friend and I saw this and tried so hard not to laugh because of the shitty windows movie maker transitions. I know that's a little nitpicky, but it was kind of ridiculous lol
i was really disappointed with that movie and this put it into words