Something I wish I had explained better: the ink from the markers is responsible for the poor layer adhesion. It's a side effect of the technique and the instructions and slicing profile are set up to account for this. My troubles were from me being impatient and going against these recommendations. Some people seemed to think there was something wrong with my printer but anyone who's been watching the channel for some time knows this printer has been featured in MANY videos.
Makes sense, you're basically introducing an impurity between the two layers that prevent the plastic from fusing together. You could probably get really good results with fabric markers meant for nylon and nylon filament since nylon is really good at absorbing dyes.
My guess about the layers adhering is that the heat from the layer of molten plastic that goes over the ink is causing the medium for the pigment (probably alcohol) to turn to steam, and this outgassing is lifting the layer. No clue what the solution would be short of waiting for the ink to dry, which isn't a good solution at all (just makes the print that much slower). LOL
Can PLA be dyed? I can't remember, but i do know some plastics and filaments certainly can, like nylon. I wonder if using a different chemistry to the sharpie marker may work better?
Creator of the 3DPrintcolorizer here. I already ordered my Conductive pens to try this out.. The good thing is, it should also be pretty easy to do multi layer 3D PCBs. Contact me if you want to collaborate on this one.
It may even be possible to achieve vertical traces. A solid cylinder wouldn't work because the layers would probably be isolated, but with small gaps, possibly interleaved, enough of the ink may seep through.
I LOVE that you describe all your failures rather than glossing over .... what 3D printing actually is. A long list of constant failing until (if you are patient enough) eventually you get to a state that works... for a few prints until (magically) something changes and maintenance and changes are required again. Thank you! This is a great video!
It will surely cause the End of the world cause if your family see any of the prints, they will be demanding more and more till someone figures out how to print an H Bomb
This idea reminds me of early 3D printers where the results were rough but gave a glimpse of what might be possible. I think this idea has legs, and look forward to seeing how it develops. Certainly one improvement would be to change the pen holder somehow so the amount of Z-movement is reduced. But I'm sure someone will think of something soon :) I'd also like to see the pen holders covering the end of the marker so they don't dry up. I have a feeling their life might not be too long as it is.
The holding design for the Markers is so incredibly smart that I'm just amazed. It's literally just relying on gravity to push the marker down. No need for complicated grabbing or holding with springs or motors. And it STILL offers reasonable protection against movement accidents in some cases, by allowing the marker to just slide up again.
I have been trying out this Colorizer on my ender3 and i got it all working and tuned ok, but layer adhesion is terrible and i have not been able to fully complete a print because adhesion was so bad. I have been testing by just printing a single color benchy to keep things simple but no success yet.
@@folepi7995 yes and no. It seems to just duplicate the previous layer when drawing with the markers (which makes sense) so its going to draw whatever the previous layer put down. However, you can choose to use different extruders for top/bottom and for infill and so for those i choose the 1st extruder which is the 'no pen' one. This means it will mostly just draw the perimeters and you can use the infill to hold things together better. My test benchys tended to hold together decently when there is infill but fall apart when there are small details since those details tend to be fully colored. One thing i may try next is seeing if i can speed up the paint layers so it puts down less ink and slow down the normal layers to get better adhesion.
Hah, was awesome to see my name show up in the Git Commit at 6:50 :D - I am loving this add on. It's a great addition to the ender 3 and allows for so much more experimentation :)
@@Rebar77_real I tried the metallic sharpies. I thought they might be very good for seperating layers for easy support removal. But in the end they were no better or worse than the normal colors
Edit: check the last two paragraphs! I've printed a bunch of parts with permanent markers and it seriously decreases layer adhesion if applied to full layer. You only need to color the outer wall. I've used them most with wood filaments, either staining the filament before printing or adding color while it is printing. In the former case i stain the filament in set intervals, leaving unstained filament between stained parts. It creates similar pattern to growth rings. The ink has to be exactly right shade of brown, i finally settled on "burnt sienna" but could not find dark enough marker, so i do multiple passes when staining. In the latter case i've paused the print at random times and added color to the outside edge only, and so that the tip touches couple of layers. Both methods work when imitating wood, the randomness makes it really, really convincing. You would not guess it is made of plastic. But really, do NOT color the whole layer, i've had several parts fail. They snap in half with minimal force, no layer adhesion at all, not even enough for decorative objects. So, i'll wait until this method allows to only color the visible parts, the outer skin. At this very moment i'm experimenting casting with PLA.. I have way too much waste plastic so i thought.. why not try to cast them. I made a mold with desktop CNC, applied heat resistant paint, melted plastic with a heat gun and popped it in the oven.. Lets see how it turned out... hmmm... looks good on the outside, have to wait until it cools to see the results. I'm trying to use wood for the mold, it can easily withstand the 200C needed, the paint should come of with the plastic, i already tested that part.. and yes, i remembered to camber the walls.. edit: had to come to say: IT ACTUALLY WORKED!.. I was able to cast PLA part, solid using wood mold and heat resistant paint. I'm amazed... There are few voids in the bottom, i'm going to try to reflow it once more, keeping it in the oven for longer time. But the part is solid, i can't break it with considerable force, outside surface is smooth, it popped out nicely with paint at all side that touched the mold fully. The scrap plastic had multiple colors and the finished part looks black with very nice finish. I did not expect this good results from the first try. I can even now put the mold (with the plastic part in it) to CNC and mill the top layer.. the mold still has the reference point that i can use to home it... This is very exciting.
Thank you for the idea for PLA casting. I am expermimenting with technical parts and happen to have a 3018. Since failed prints/supports/calibration prints/outdated prints are quite common, finding a way to reuse them is very attractive.
My man, thank you so much for bringing this to my attention! This is a real game changer for me since I have an extremely small budget for this type of hobby
Omg, that's amazing, I'm down to halfway on my fav filament, and was just wondering what colour to get next, then this popped up on my recommended. I so want to try this.
I'm flabbergasted that whoever created this didn't go the "sell kits for extremely ridiculous prices" path on this. This is also useful for a variety of plotter applications such as PCB manufacturing and signs. to mention a few.
Fortunately I earn enough money with my 9-5 that I wasn’t really tempted to do this ;-) But your comment got me thinking about printing 3D multilayer PCBs on PLA… I think I have to order some pens with conductive Ink.
maybe cause markers and printing don't mix unless you color before melting, markers are actually used for support release lol, I use that trick every time! 0 gap between support and piece, 0 sticking, perfect surface
I learn a lot of things with this channel. Thank you for this. That multi-color printing style is a little step to the 'multi-ink 3d printer'. Just like we have color ink 2d printer. It is not perfect but it will be one day
I used this technique last night for a 16 hour print, I used PLA @ 210c and kept the heatbed on constant heat. The layers came out strong and adhesion was not a problem at all. Thankyou for the design of the caddy as it has worked perfectly for me.
Wooo! What an awesome idea! But I'm not so surprised that layer adhesion becomes an issue after smearing Sharpie ink all over the printed plastic. I'll have to have a read up on it all though, it's super interesting!!!!!!!!!
I saw this on Reddit recently and thought it was wonderful, however I tend to use my printers mostly for practical prints where colour doesent matter that much and if it did I would favour Idex or the pallette
Same here (in therms of printer usage), but I could find some uses, like labels on a case being easier than manually painted after done, or more complex graphics laid down straight into the print without stickers or such.
Great work as always. This community is great with sharing designs etc, restores faith in humanity somewhat. If you can access an iPad pro, Apple Pencil and a copy of Shapr3D, it's a game changer for 3D design I reckon.
Wow that was fantastic thank you. I tried using a sharpie on the filament before it printed to see if it would pass through and it did. What a neat idea. Great video
Thanks Michael! I've used Make Anything's sharpie blender and while it was a fun experiment it wasn't really a useful tool to add to the arsenal. This is really exciting but I would also have to experiment with designing my own parts as I use a Snapmaker 2. At least I already have the sharpies.
Why didn’t you find it useful? Husband hasn’t set up his 3d printer yet, so I’m still trying to understand the complexities. The Make Anything one looked great for mixing up specific colors for one off prints.
You really need to slow things down and potentially increase the temperature when doing this because the alcohol-based sharpie markers also act really well as a releasing agent to help layers come apart rather than stick together. You should have a go at using this same system but set up the gcode to draw just on the top level of the support to help act as a nice releasing agent between the support and model.
any marker really, I use this phenomenon on purpose! cause I hate removing supports and love a clean underside, so I do sharpie and 0mm gap, the marker's pigment acts as a release agent, I knew this would fail before I opened the video lol
@@l3d-3dmaker58 or this is just the perfect thing for yours (and my purposes) as a releasing agent rather than something to color prints. I am pretty certain you could find a dye based pen that wouldn’t work as well as a releasing agent too?
@@SchwaAlien might not be possible because of the toxicitiy issues of MEK but damn it would be good if it wasnt as it would also probably make a reasonably good solvent for the inks too and replace xylene and make a good color system.
Thought up some stuff: Targets for a pigment mixing or painting 3d printer tool would be: >color saturation (control) >number of colors available (pigment mixing) >resolution (sharp color changes) >accuracy >homogenity (when mixing colors, getting the wanted color insted of streaks of used pigments) >difusion (so the pigment is visible on the outside / fills the extruded line) Approaches: 1. Adding pigment before extrusion +Good homogenity and diffusion. A module could probably be added before any extruder. With enough pigment good saturation would be available. -poor accuracy/resolution - either a wipe tower is needed to get the wanted color in the expected place, or only gradients will be achivable. 2. Adding pigment after extrusion (painting like in the video) +great accuracy and resolution. With an oversized inkjet color mixing wouln't be an issue. Decent saturation, as only the outer layer is painted. A module could be added to the print head, making it universal. -no diffusion, the pigment might just wipe off with use. Poor homogenity, as likely only the top of the extrusion is painted, leaving white spots on the underside. 3. Adding pigment during extrusion +Better diffusion than 1st, better accuracy than 2nd as the pigment would be added within the extrusion but still be closer to the nozzle, so less filament wasted on a wipe tower. -homogenity - resolution is a tradeoff, depending on how far up the nozzle the pigment is added. Very complicated and potentialy fradgile, so most likely a separate extruder. Feel free to add to or correct me, als pardon my poor word choises, as I'm not a native english speaker.
I don't think I'll try it since mostly I print functional parts, but it looks like an awesome project and very clever indeed. You are totally right about other multi-colour methods, so much waste and tempermental at best. So thank you so much for showing this project to us!
I know there's another printer that combines three printing with a inkjet printer to accomplish the same basic purpose. I feel like this really is the way forward for multicolor 3D printing as with just technology that already exists you could make full color anything you want with a single filament. I'm not sure why this hasn't been pursued more as I feel like it would be a really good thing to do.
Those pioneers like you at the time of this video, lead us today to systems like Bambu's AMS or even better! And techiniques like Make Anything's sharpies holder is still something useful and even the best way to go, as I said to him, when printing topographies and objects with shuffling and fading colors!
TBH 😅 All that position calibration and so that you did... Would have make me feel like color prints are out of reach in FDM with single nozzle, if I were here 2 years ago. Even discouraging me to get a Bambulab nowadays. That thing prints good stuff once settled but duuuude it's so finnicky!!
Considering how long the markers will have their tips exposed as print jobs run for hours, I'd consider altering it to use some type of refillable markers. Ideally that would make it more cost effective while giving you a wider palette of colors to choose from. Anyway, just a thought. :)
Thank you very much. This is why i love at 3D printing. If you have a task or a problem 3D printing can help to solve it. I dont have a dual or multi color printer, but hey no problem Michael show me how to solve this problem! Thanks to Andreas Müller for the design and to bring us this idea! 3D printer rule the world! (Now in color).
I just added this to my Ender 3 and so far I can say I am thrilled with the results. The comments you made in the video about impatience causing headaches were taken well to heart and I can say my patience was rewarded. One other question though: Has anyone figured out how to take this system and turn the printer into a multi-color plotter/drawing machine?
While watching this, I might have had the single dumbest idea I have ever had in my entire life up until this point: Use a paint pen (or something like it) as the "final" layer on support material. My thoughts are that the interface between the print and the support structure should be able to be easily broken free due to that thin layer of 'paint' and since it is not plastic it might be able to be removed with water/IPA. The 'paint' I was thinking of would be the "correction fluid" that is used in offices for paperwork that has a typo on it.
Really cool stuff. I would love to see something like this, but with glue. I feel like an EXTREMELY useful thing would be to fill holes with a sturdy glue. Imagine having an inner cavity created simply because of how infill works... then drop in some gorilla glue mid print thereby trapping the glue to add a sturdy & lightweight section. ??Silicone to make water tight parts.
I'm gunna give you my genuine reaction after seeing 5 seconds of this video. " Ohhhhh myyyy Gooooddddd , What the faaaaakkk , ehhhh, hehe, haha, Lollllll. That's halarious" That's actually what I said out loud to myself. Such a sick idea. very cool.
Think out of the box ... Sure, on a printer where the bed moves up and down and the carriage in X/Y, you cannot do the exact same trick, but there are bound to be other ways to mechanically grab a sharpie by moving at specific X coordinate all the way to the back and then in X direction to attach a holder with the sharpie before moving back forwards (like a tool changer). Someone up for designing that (and adapt the plugin to handle that)? I do think a tiny purge block might also make sense, just to alleviate problems with the oozing. If you have an all- metal heatbreak and DD extruder, using retractions like the 6mm mentioned in the video sounds like asking for clogs ... Using less will likely still cause a bit of oozing, which you then should clean off against a small but sturdy purge block before laying down the next layer. Or by moving the nozzle over a brush before every new layer (there are some videos on such a mechanism). All in all, great idea ... Hope there will be a Teaching Tech follow-up on this with the problems ironed out and more details on how you would cope with stuff like a DD conversion or the mentioned other printer geometries...
So I'm seeing a really promising concept, but with concerns about delamination of layers and difficulty of calibration, I'm weighing the utility between automated colouring and just manually colouring the print when it's finished and the latter seems most reasonable.
I would say every multi colour system I have used has a similar level of calibration and compromise required, so this is a great dipping of the toe in the water.
The so called “microscope method” being used by the E3D ToolChanger community could be a good way to dial in the XY alignment with a bit less guesswork. Z would might still need to be done separately but for XY it makes it super simple if you happen to have one of those microscopes.
I tried this but it wasn‘t too helpful. In the end what helped was slowing down the outer wall print speed. The inner walls, infill etc. can be quite high. Reducing only the outer wall speeds doesn’t really affect the whole print time to much.
I wonder if this could be the future, making 3d printers more like 2d printers. You'd purchase rolls of "base colour" like how there's cheaper and more expensive printer paper; and cartridges, like specially designed markers that don't affect layer adhesion as much and are more vibrant.
Thank you Micheal, that was pretty cool and in-depth as ever :D this system is close to a colorizing holy-grail, the pens could come front-right corner of any print bed perhaps? Less travel and cable motion? still amazing
Honestly I like the lizard more with the bad offset. Gives it a chameleon look! Would love to have that little guy but sadly this system won't happen for the UpMini2 printers since they are so locked down. Can't even run Cura on the dang things.
If only we could have more stepper outputs on the Ender 3 board, then we could run multiple extruders with different color filaments in them thus also eliminating waste towers 🤔 or maybe there is a way to daisy chain two Ender boards together or even an expansion board to add extra extruders?
Gotta try this out some day, pretty interesting! I can see some practical applications for my stuff (since I basically just print functional stuff) like labels on a casing and such. On an unrelated semi-bragging note, damn I can't imagine my printer's Z moving that slow... I home everything including Z at 50mm/s and often pull Z at 100mm/s
I wonder how it would work with better alcohol based inks, there are a number of high quality (also costs more) sharpie like markers with a huge range of colour options such as Copic or ProMarkers. Also on layer adhesion, I wonder if ironing each layer (not sure if any slicer allows this) would help mix the ink in with the filament. PrusaSlicer allows different filament to be specified for infill with the MMU, surely that sort of feature could be used to make sure only perimeters and solid infills are coloured.
@@Mary_tian With the current solutions you don´t print multi color you print multi material. They are way too inefficient for multi color printing, you need many different filament rolls with different colors how does this make sense ? You only need one translucent filament and 3 sharpies to print multi color just like a 2D printer does. This is the solution we need for multi color not the big bulky mechanical systems we currently have.
how can you get adhesion like that? I specifically use sharpie as support interfaces with 0mm gap to get clean under surfaces that have 0 sticking to the part
Maybe awareness of distance to surface, so drawing is only done on the edges, top or bottom of the model. A sign distance field of the model could be used to identify near surface lines and skip coloring in any other lines. Or maybe regular models where infill is used the software already knows to not color it in.
Have thought on trying the Mmu2? It's from prusa but it's also open source so it can be printed and adapted to different printers, it's the cheaper alternative to the palette I've been looking for, but it seems it also waste some material with the purge blocks, it can be reduced a bit purging in the infil
Looks very interesting but also very specific to the Ender 3. While this is a good thing in that it probably captures a large proportion of the community (I started with an Ender 3 myself) it means making this work with my current Prusa I3 looks super confusing :(
don't blame speed, I print at 300mm/s with complete layer adhesion (test pieces break isotropically along crystal boundaries), markers will specifically not stick, they're pigments in a solvent, those pigments act as a release agent, I and many others specifically use it to make breakaway supports on the cheap, nothing and I mean NOTHING sticks to the marker, that's why we put a little layer of diluted PVA glue on it to make it stick a little while still releasing, this was a bad idea from the start, only way it could work is if it only colored the outer layer, it's like spraying your print with mold release every layer and wondering why it's delaminating this tho, can be a cool trick to make an automated support painter for that release method, although markers drying would be a concern, need to find a retractable sharpie
If you use opaque white filament, I think a lot of time is wasted by coloring the inside of the object. All you need to color is the visible contours of each layer, so that might be worth to make some modifications in order to remove infill on the color pencils passes.
I think, the original 3pens getting more pigments in 3 direction while here, only one direction so drawing on didn't mix the pigments well before extrusion. But anyway it's a neat idea. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Hi Michael, I was just wondering when you were going to do a follow up video on the lowrider 2 mpcnc. I have personally built my own because of your videos, but I would love to see more videos on that.
Something I wish I had explained better: the ink from the markers is responsible for the poor layer adhesion. It's a side effect of the technique and the instructions and slicing profile are set up to account for this. My troubles were from me being impatient and going against these recommendations. Some people seemed to think there was something wrong with my printer but anyone who's been watching the channel for some time knows this printer has been featured in MANY videos.
Makes sense, you're basically introducing an impurity between the two layers that prevent the plastic from fusing together.
You could probably get really good results with fabric markers meant for nylon and nylon filament since nylon is really good at absorbing dyes.
I'm hoping to get an Ender 3 S1, I'll have to try this when I get it.
This won't work on the DaVinci pro I have. :(
My guess about the layers adhering is that the heat from the layer of molten plastic that goes over the ink is causing the medium for the pigment (probably alcohol) to turn to steam, and this outgassing is lifting the layer. No clue what the solution would be short of waiting for the ink to dry, which isn't a good solution at all (just makes the print that much slower). LOL
Look into the Leidenfrost effect for a better description of what I'm trying to say. :)
Can PLA be dyed? I can't remember, but i do know some plastics and filaments certainly can, like nylon. I wonder if using a different chemistry to the sharpie marker may work better?
Reckon it could draw in circuit traces? Jaycar sell a "Silver Conductive Pen" that heat activates at 180deg it's mad enough to work... maybe.
Creator of the 3DPrintcolorizer here. I already ordered my Conductive pens to try this out.. The good thing is, it should also be pretty easy to do multi layer 3D PCBs. Contact me if you want to collaborate on this one.
A VIDEO IS MUCH NEEDED ON THIS
@@andreasmuller5630 This would be insane! Great work btw.
@@andreasmuller5630 Jeez, low cost DIY multi layer PCBs would be a game changer
It may even be possible to achieve vertical traces. A solid cylinder wouldn't work because the layers would probably be isolated, but with small gaps, possibly interleaved, enough of the ink may seep through.
I LOVE that you describe all your failures rather than glossing over .... what 3D printing actually is. A long list of constant failing until (if you are patient enough) eventually you get to a state that works... for a few prints until (magically) something changes and maintenance and changes are required again. Thank you! This is a great video!
This is such a sophisticated idea, at such low cost, I'm absolutely impressed by the inventor. Thanks for trying and showing!
It's actually a really simple idea that works well and is well thought out.
Agreed!
It will surely cause the End of the world cause if your family see any of the prints, they will be demanding more and more till someone figures out how to print an H Bomb
Every time I think I have an idea to advance 3d printing, I find out that you all are way!!! ahead of me, hehe. Amazing stuff. I love it.
checkout "make anything" he did a video on it before this one though he actually colored the filament before it went into the extruder :)
I didn't realize he owned the company that designed this .
That is why you should get your idea working or not working as soon as possible!
Wow. Speechless. This is what the open source model can do. Amazing!!!
This idea reminds me of early 3D printers where the results were rough but gave a glimpse of what might be possible. I think this idea has legs, and look forward to seeing how it develops. Certainly one improvement would be to change the pen holder somehow so the amount of Z-movement is reduced. But I'm sure someone will think of something soon :) I'd also like to see the pen holders covering the end of the marker so they don't dry up. I have a feeling their life might not be too long as it is.
The holding design for the Markers is so incredibly smart that I'm just amazed.
It's literally just relying on gravity to push the marker down. No need for complicated grabbing or holding with springs or motors.
And it STILL offers reasonable protection against movement accidents in some cases, by allowing the marker to just slide up again.
I agree, the simplicity is what this so good. It would be easy to get carried away designing but this is an elegant and restrained design.
I've heard of people using a sharpie as an interface layer for support material. That could be a cause for your layer adhesion issues.
interesting idea.
just paint on the last layer of the support material with a sharpie?
@@folepi7995 that's what I remember hearing. I've personally never tried it. YMMV
I have been trying out this Colorizer on my ender3 and i got it all working and tuned ok, but layer adhesion is terrible and i have not been able to fully complete a print because adhesion was so bad. I have been testing by just printing a single color benchy to keep things simple but no success yet.
@@ScottClarke is it possible to only colorize the outer perimeter?
@@folepi7995 yes and no. It seems to just duplicate the previous layer when drawing with the markers (which makes sense) so its going to draw whatever the previous layer put down. However, you can choose to use different extruders for top/bottom and for infill and so for those i choose the 1st extruder which is the 'no pen' one. This means it will mostly just draw the perimeters and you can use the infill to hold things together better. My test benchys tended to hold together decently when there is infill but fall apart when there are small details since those details tend to be fully colored.
One thing i may try next is seeing if i can speed up the paint layers so it puts down less ink and slow down the normal layers to get better adhesion.
Thank you to all who are working on this! I think this method may have great potential for many people.
Hah, was awesome to see my name show up in the Git Commit at 6:50 :D - I am loving this add on. It's a great addition to the ender 3 and allows for so much more experimentation :)
:D
Have you tried it with something other than a sharpie? Like those gold paint pens or glitter gel or something. Just curious.
@@Rebar77_real I tried the metallic sharpies. I thought they might be very good for seperating layers for easy support removal. But in the end they were no better or worse than the normal colors
Edit: check the last two paragraphs!
I've printed a bunch of parts with permanent markers and it seriously decreases layer adhesion if applied to full layer. You only need to color the outer wall. I've used them most with wood filaments, either staining the filament before printing or adding color while it is printing. In the former case i stain the filament in set intervals, leaving unstained filament between stained parts. It creates similar pattern to growth rings. The ink has to be exactly right shade of brown, i finally settled on "burnt sienna" but could not find dark enough marker, so i do multiple passes when staining. In the latter case i've paused the print at random times and added color to the outside edge only, and so that the tip touches couple of layers. Both methods work when imitating wood, the randomness makes it really, really convincing. You would not guess it is made of plastic.
But really, do NOT color the whole layer, i've had several parts fail. They snap in half with minimal force, no layer adhesion at all, not even enough for decorative objects. So, i'll wait until this method allows to only color the visible parts, the outer skin.
At this very moment i'm experimenting casting with PLA.. I have way too much waste plastic so i thought.. why not try to cast them. I made a mold with desktop CNC, applied heat resistant paint, melted plastic with a heat gun and popped it in the oven.. Lets see how it turned out... hmmm... looks good on the outside, have to wait until it cools to see the results. I'm trying to use wood for the mold, it can easily withstand the 200C needed, the paint should come of with the plastic, i already tested that part.. and yes, i remembered to camber the walls..
edit: had to come to say: IT ACTUALLY WORKED!.. I was able to cast PLA part, solid using wood mold and heat resistant paint. I'm amazed... There are few voids in the bottom, i'm going to try to reflow it once more, keeping it in the oven for longer time. But the part is solid, i can't break it with considerable force, outside surface is smooth, it popped out nicely with paint at all side that touched the mold fully. The scrap plastic had multiple colors and the finished part looks black with very nice finish. I did not expect this good results from the first try. I can even now put the mold (with the plastic part in it) to CNC and mill the top layer.. the mold still has the reference point that i can use to home it... This is very exciting.
Thank you for the idea for PLA casting. I am expermimenting with technical parts and happen to have a 3018. Since failed prints/supports/calibration prints/outdated prints are quite common, finding a way to reuse them is very attractive.
My man, thank you so much for bringing this to my attention!
This is a real game changer for me since I have an extremely small budget for this type of hobby
Omg, that's amazing, I'm down to halfway on my fav filament, and was just wondering what colour to get next, then this popped up on my recommended. I so want to try this.
I'm flabbergasted that whoever created this didn't go the "sell kits for extremely ridiculous prices" path on this.
This is also useful for a variety of plotter applications such as PCB manufacturing and signs. to mention a few.
Fortunately I earn enough money with my 9-5 that I wasn’t really tempted to do this ;-) But your comment got me thinking about printing 3D multilayer PCBs on PLA… I think I have to order some pens with conductive Ink.
maybe cause markers and printing don't mix unless you color before melting, markers are actually used for support release lol, I use that trick every time! 0 gap between support and piece, 0 sticking, perfect surface
@@l3d-3dmaker58 If you print slow enough over the ink they bond good enough
Very cool. Thank you to the developer and Michael for their time and effort!
I learn a lot of things with this channel. Thank you for this. That multi-color printing style is a little step to the 'multi-ink 3d printer'. Just like we have color ink 2d printer. It is not perfect but it will be one day
I used this technique last night for a 16 hour print, I used PLA @ 210c and kept the heatbed on constant heat. The layers came out strong and adhesion was not a problem at all. Thankyou for the design of the caddy as it has worked perfectly for me.
Wooo! What an awesome idea! But I'm not so surprised that layer adhesion becomes an issue after smearing Sharpie ink all over the printed plastic. I'll have to have a read up on it all though, it's super interesting!!!!!!!!!
Die Idee 💡 ist genial ! Die kosten sind niedrig....lohnt sich irgendwann mal zu testen mit wasserfesten stiften.
My first printer was a Kikai Labs T125 !!! I'm very happy for them, finally their work gets the international recognition that they deserve!
Really cool, super efficient design and so cheap and accessible too, very impressive work by the designer and huge props to you for sharing :)
this is absolutely brilliant.... kudos to the open source developers...... open source makes the hobby grow
I saw this on Reddit recently and thought it was wonderful, however I tend to use my printers mostly for practical prints where colour doesent matter that much and if it did I would favour Idex or the pallette
Same here (in therms of printer usage), but I could find some uses, like labels on a case being easier than manually painted after done, or more complex graphics laid down straight into the print without stickers or such.
Wow this looks really interesting. Thanks for sharing. Will definitely be trying at some point.
Great work as always. This community is great with sharing designs etc, restores faith in humanity somewhat. If you can access an iPad pro, Apple Pencil and a copy of Shapr3D, it's a game changer for 3D design I reckon.
How on earth did I get to a video this early? Also, thanks! I saw this before but I think now I'll try it out!
That is a really awesome trick. I'm definately going to have to look into this further. Thank you!
Oh man this is cool! I've got so many sharpies in a box in my office closet! Time to waste some hours/sharpies/filament.
Oh COME ON!! Everytime I think I am done with mods for a while along comes TT with something else that is just IRRESISTABLE!! 🤣😍
This is genious - especially for bowden printers, this is a no-brainer! I have to try this :)
Finding a gem like this is wonderful. Thank you!
Wow that was fantastic thank you. I tried using a sharpie on the filament before it printed to see if it would pass through and it did. What a neat idea. Great video
Thanks for this and all your videos. It's a neat idea and I don't think I would have heard of it, if not for you.
What an awesome idea! It reminds me a lot of XYZ's inkjet based printer but at a fraction of the cost! It's definanly something I'll be trying soon
This was fun to watch, especially the failures and the fixes made.
Thanks Michael! I've used Make Anything's sharpie blender and while it was a fun experiment it wasn't really a useful tool to add to the arsenal. This is really exciting but I would also have to experiment with designing my own parts as I use a Snapmaker 2. At least I already have the sharpies.
Why didn’t you find it useful? Husband hasn’t set up his 3d printer yet, so I’m still trying to understand the complexities.
The Make Anything one looked great for mixing up specific colors for one off prints.
I love your quality to teach thank for helping me to doing 3dprinting courses so much thankfull to u ❤️
This makes me wanna pick up a pack of sharpies. 🤔
Love the Pickachu whiskers on your first print! very well done! LOL
You really need to slow things down and potentially increase the temperature when doing this because the alcohol-based sharpie markers also act really well as a releasing agent to help layers come apart rather than stick together. You should have a go at using this same system but set up the gcode to draw just on the top level of the support to help act as a nice releasing agent between the support and model.
any marker really, I use this phenomenon on purpose! cause I hate removing supports and love a clean underside, so I do sharpie and 0mm gap, the marker's pigment acts as a release agent, I knew this would fail before I opened the video lol
@@l3d-3dmaker58 or this is just the perfect thing for yours (and my purposes) as a releasing agent rather than something to color prints. I am pretty certain you could find a dye based pen that wouldn’t work as well as a releasing agent too?
What if the machine used the marker and then put a layer of MEK on before the next layer to improve adhesion? Pretty slow, but might fix it.
@@SchwaAlien might not be possible because of the toxicitiy issues of MEK but damn it would be good if it wasnt as it would also probably make a reasonably good solvent for the inks too and replace xylene and make a good color system.
Thought up some stuff:
Targets for a pigment mixing or painting 3d printer tool would be:
>color saturation (control)
>number of colors available (pigment mixing)
>resolution (sharp color changes)
>accuracy
>homogenity (when mixing colors, getting the wanted color insted of streaks of used pigments)
>difusion (so the pigment is visible on the outside / fills the extruded line)
Approaches:
1. Adding pigment before extrusion
+Good homogenity and diffusion. A module could probably be added before any extruder. With enough pigment good saturation would be available.
-poor accuracy/resolution - either a wipe tower is needed to get the wanted color in the expected place, or only gradients will be achivable.
2. Adding pigment after extrusion (painting like in the video)
+great accuracy and resolution. With an oversized inkjet color mixing wouln't be an issue. Decent saturation, as only the outer layer is painted. A module could be added to the print head, making it universal.
-no diffusion, the pigment might just wipe off with use. Poor homogenity, as likely only the top of the extrusion is painted, leaving white spots on the underside.
3. Adding pigment during extrusion
+Better diffusion than 1st, better accuracy than 2nd as the pigment would be added within the extrusion but still be closer to the nozzle, so less filament wasted on a wipe tower.
-homogenity - resolution is a tradeoff, depending on how far up the nozzle the pigment is added. Very complicated and potentialy fradgile, so most likely a separate extruder.
Feel free to add to or correct me, als pardon my poor word choises, as I'm not a native english speaker.
I don't think I'll try it since mostly I print functional parts, but it looks like an awesome project and very clever indeed. You are totally right about other multi-colour methods, so much waste and tempermental at best. So thank you so much for showing this project to us!
I know there's another printer that combines three printing with a inkjet printer to accomplish the same basic purpose. I feel like this really is the way forward for multicolor 3D printing as with just technology that already exists you could make full color anything you want with a single filament. I'm not sure why this hasn't been pursued more as I feel like it would be a really good thing to do.
I think that is only on the powder based printers.
Exceptional and so very clever, thanks for sharing it, will give it a shot soon 😎👍
Those pioneers like you at the time of this video, lead us today to systems like Bambu's AMS or even better!
And techiniques like Make Anything's sharpies holder is still something useful and even the best way to go, as I said to him, when printing topographies and objects with shuffling and fading colors!
TBH 😅 All that position calibration and so that you did... Would have make me feel like color prints are out of reach in FDM with single nozzle, if I were here 2 years ago. Even discouraging me to get a Bambulab nowadays. That thing prints good stuff once settled but duuuude it's so finnicky!!
Considering how long the markers will have their tips exposed as print jobs run for hours, I'd consider altering it to use some type of refillable markers. Ideally that would make it more cost effective while giving you a wider palette of colors to choose from. Anyway, just a thought. :)
Great video
Great product
Great idea, and simple implementation!
Love it.
Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us👍:-)
Thank you very much. This is why i love at 3D printing. If you have a task or a problem 3D printing can help to solve it. I dont have a dual or multi color printer, but hey no problem Michael show me how to solve this problem! Thanks to Andreas Müller for the design and to bring us this idea! 3D printer rule the world! (Now in color).
This looks amazing! Definitely something I’ll look at trying in the future!
I just added this to my Ender 3 and so far I can say I am thrilled with the results. The comments you made in the video about impatience causing headaches were taken well to heart and I can say my patience was rewarded.
One other question though: Has anyone figured out how to take this system and turn the printer into a multi-color plotter/drawing machine?
That (plotter) was one of the inspirations for this design, so yes.
While watching this, I might have had the single dumbest idea I have ever had in my entire life up until this point: Use a paint pen (or something like it) as the "final" layer on support material. My thoughts are that the interface between the print and the support structure should be able to be easily broken free due to that thin layer of 'paint' and since it is not plastic it might be able to be removed with water/IPA. The 'paint' I was thinking of would be the "correction fluid" that is used in offices for paperwork that has a typo on it.
Really cool stuff.
I would love to see something like this, but with glue. I feel like an EXTREMELY useful thing would be to fill holes with a sturdy glue.
Imagine having an inner cavity created simply because of how infill works... then drop in some gorilla glue mid print thereby trapping the glue to add a sturdy & lightweight section.
??Silicone to make water tight parts.
Iwill try this for sure!! nice stuff .. thanks mate!
I'm gunna give you my genuine reaction after seeing 5 seconds of this video. " Ohhhhh myyyy Gooooddddd , What the faaaaakkk , ehhhh, hehe, haha, Lollllll. That's halarious" That's actually what I said out loud to myself. Such a sick idea. very cool.
I was genuinely getting ready to print all of these parts...
...for my ender 5. I am not the smartest.
Think out of the box ... Sure, on a printer where the bed moves up and down and the carriage in X/Y, you cannot do the exact same trick, but there are bound to be other ways to mechanically grab a sharpie by moving at specific X coordinate all the way to the back and then in X direction to attach a holder with the sharpie before moving back forwards (like a tool changer). Someone up for designing that (and adapt the plugin to handle that)? I do think a tiny purge block might also make sense, just to alleviate problems with the oozing. If you have an all- metal heatbreak and DD extruder, using retractions like the 6mm mentioned in the video sounds like asking for clogs ... Using less will likely still cause a bit of oozing, which you then should clean off against a small but sturdy purge block before laying down the next layer. Or by moving the nozzle over a brush before every new layer (there are some videos on such a mechanism). All in all, great idea ... Hope there will be a Teaching Tech follow-up on this with the problems ironed out and more details on how you would cope with stuff like a DD conversion or the mentioned other printer geometries...
@@MisterkeTube Don't you worry friend, I'm already on it ;)
I'll create a GitHub fork when I've got it working.
I followed Instructions from Mr. Andreas Müller. Everything worked best with my Ender 3 pro. Awesome invention.
Omg this is amazing can't wait till I'm back near a pc to get the part sliced
So I'm seeing a really promising concept, but with concerns about delamination of layers and difficulty of calibration, I'm weighing the utility between automated colouring and just manually colouring the print when it's finished and the latter seems most reasonable.
I would say every multi colour system I have used has a similar level of calibration and compromise required, so this is a great dipping of the toe in the water.
Very cool idea. I am definitely going to try it.
Thank you for making videos like this. Showing that it's normal that shit doesn't work the first 5 million tries! 🤣 (it's not just me! Yay!)
Great idea, thanks for showing it
This is an amazing concept Michael. @Andreas Müller did a fantastic job on this implementation. Cheers, JAYTEE
id love to see a video on the best 3d printers to buy atm
The so called “microscope method” being used by the E3D ToolChanger community could be a good way to dial in the XY alignment with a bit less guesswork. Z would might still need to be done separately but for XY it makes it super simple if you happen to have one of those microscopes.
Perhaps an ironing pass after every colour layer would help incorporate the pigment into the plastic and ameliorate the delamination.
I tried this but it wasn‘t too helpful. In the end what helped was slowing down the outer wall print speed. The inner walls, infill etc. can be quite high. Reducing only the outer wall speeds doesn’t really affect the whole print time to much.
Brilliant idea!
I probably am going to give this a try yes, this seems like a viable solution, to descent coloring.
Very impressive innovation!
Very nice this is such a great lil trick for the hat ! Thnx!
Very in depth video!
Thank you for your effort!
Very promising project
I gotta try this.
I wonder if this could be the future, making 3d printers more like 2d printers. You'd purchase rolls of "base colour" like how there's cheaper and more expensive printer paper; and cartridges, like specially designed markers that don't affect layer adhesion as much and are more vibrant.
Colors can be using only outside of the models ? If yes its a nice idea to colorizing your models and don't waste much time.
Thank you Micheal, that was pretty cool and in-depth as ever :D
this system is close to a colorizing holy-grail, the pens could come front-right corner of any print bed perhaps? Less travel and cable motion?
still amazing
Honestly I like the lizard more with the bad offset. Gives it a chameleon look! Would love to have that little guy but sadly this system won't happen for the UpMini2 printers since they are so locked down. Can't even run Cura on the dang things.
Genius idea
If only we could have more stepper outputs on the Ender 3 board, then we could run multiple extruders with different color filaments in them thus also eliminating waste towers 🤔 or maybe there is a way to daisy chain two Ender boards together or even an expansion board to add extra extruders?
Awesome! I will try this soon!
Maybe the layer delamination is caused by all surface of the layer is painted. What about to paint only external perimeters?
Gotta try this out some day, pretty interesting! I can see some practical applications for my stuff (since I basically just print functional stuff) like labels on a casing and such.
On an unrelated semi-bragging note, damn I can't imagine my printer's Z moving that slow... I home everything including Z at 50mm/s and often pull Z at 100mm/s
I wonder how it would work with better alcohol based inks, there are a number of high quality (also costs more) sharpie like markers with a huge range of colour options such as Copic or ProMarkers.
Also on layer adhesion, I wonder if ironing each layer (not sure if any slicer allows this) would help mix the ink in with the filament.
PrusaSlicer allows different filament to be specified for infill with the MMU, surely that sort of feature could be used to make sure only perimeters and solid infills are coloured.
It needs a tool carousel for markers like in HAAS mill ;-)
color carousel
Finally some senseful ideas for multicolor prints. All those multi materil systems are trash if you only want multiple colors.
How do you understand that these are all garbage? Good current color printing solutions?
@@Mary_tian With the current solutions you don´t print multi color you print multi material. They are way too inefficient for multi color printing, you need many different filament rolls with different colors how does this make sense ? You only need one translucent filament and 3 sharpies to print multi color just like a 2D printer does. This is the solution we need for multi color not the big bulky mechanical systems we currently have.
how can you get adhesion like that? I specifically use sharpie as support interfaces with 0mm gap to get clean under surfaces that have 0 sticking to the part
Slow feedrate, slightly hotter nozzle temp, slightly less part cooling.
Oh god, I just watched Make Anything video on the subject 3h ago XD. What was the chance of a new video on the subject poping up the same day O_O
Maybe awareness of distance to surface, so drawing is only done on the edges, top or bottom of the model. A sign distance field of the model could be used to identify near surface lines and skip coloring in any other lines. Or maybe regular models where infill is used the software already knows to not color it in.
This is neat but the problem I'd run into just like I did with the " make anything" method, my markers dried up and it was a waste of time.
Have thought on trying the Mmu2? It's from prusa but it's also open source so it can be printed and adapted to different printers, it's the cheaper alternative to the palette I've been looking for, but it seems it also waste some material with the purge blocks, it can be reduced a bit purging in the infil
Looks very interesting but also very specific to the Ender 3. While this is a good thing in that it probably captures a large proportion of the community (I started with an Ender 3 myself) it means making this work with my current Prusa I3 looks super confusing :(
Cool system. Shame there doesn't appear to be something similar for the ender 5.
don't blame speed, I print at 300mm/s with complete layer adhesion (test pieces break isotropically along crystal boundaries), markers will specifically not stick, they're pigments in a solvent, those pigments act as a release agent, I and many others specifically use it to make breakaway supports on the cheap, nothing and I mean NOTHING sticks to the marker, that's why we put a little layer of diluted PVA glue on it to make it stick a little while still releasing, this was a bad idea from the start, only way it could work is if it only colored the outer layer, it's like spraying your print with mold release every layer and wondering why it's delaminating
this tho, can be a cool trick to make an automated support painter for that release method, although markers drying would be a concern, need to find a retractable sharpie
When you paint only the outer walls and print slow enough it sticks.
If you use opaque white filament, I think a lot of time is wasted by coloring the inside of the object. All you need to color is the visible contours of each layer, so that might be worth to make some modifications in order to remove infill on the color pencils passes.
I think, the original 3pens getting more pigments in 3 direction while here, only one direction so drawing on didn't mix the pigments well before extrusion. But anyway it's a neat idea. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
it's look's fun to try at the weekend
This reminds me of a simplified version of pen holder I found on Thingiverse.
I'd love to make a basic version or a simple drawy boi.
Great job💯💪😁
Interesting idea! Thanks for the video.
Hi Michael, I was just wondering when you were going to do a follow up video on the lowrider 2 mpcnc. I have personally built my own because of your videos, but I would love to see more videos on that.
It depends on if a project comes up that needs it. Don't know if you saw but I used to make an electronics panel in the Rat Rig build (part 1).