I'm very impressed by this. It helps that you're working with a pro already, but at the same time, it can be hard to break existing habits and muscle memory. THAT is the bit I'm most impressed about. Well done all.
I have been changing my forehand at the age of 65 yrs young! Played since I was around 10 yrs shame we weren’t taught then what you have been highlighting here as also others do. Your analysis makes sense re high takeback drawbacks others advocate that but I found doing that is difficult to feed a ball to one self and hit it as takes up too much movement and time. Also over shoulder rotation point is good ie it doesn’t increase racquet speed but lessens the full potential. Cocking the risk on the backswing and getting to somewhere close to ‘patting the dog’ position gives me a sense/ feel of so much more power than my old fashioned loopy topspin shot with little penetration and lots of arm effort. I have a sense now of what to do just need to keep practicing in my net air swings and in practice and friendly matches. I have an over 40’s ! final to play in March so working towards being able to hit forehands with power spin and control by then. Thanks for your valuable insights.
of all tennis coaches in youtube, OTI is my top favorite because of their quality teachings, very systematic, technical focus and will surely improve a tennis player's game. Goodluck guys and congratulations you are the best.
Federer started his career with the "before" pullback with the racquet tip facing upwards. Of course Federer had a killer forehand already back then. But later, Federer made the change similar to the "after" forehand. Nonetheless can result in a faster preparation though.
Very helpful video for those of us at the advanced level, as clear, simple instruction is always easier to follow, understand and more importantly feel in practice …I particularly like the idea of, using the hands to improve racquet speed, as IMO the relaxed hands are one the absolute vital elements in tennis, as tension will generally manifests itself with a tight grip….Many thanks Florian and James…Namaste 🙏
Could you guys take a look at my sister Jamie Loeb, her forehand needs technical change, she is 300 in the world? Think zoom then in person would be huge for her!
interesting but watch Halep closely in slow motion....she has a very high racket head at the start before taking the racket back very similar to Leonie before this coaching...Halep still has the lag even though she is not pointing the racket toward the side fence
Lot of respect for Florian. Yet, I wonder if her main problem all along was her conception of rotation, as mentioned. An extreme of never letting the arm act independently can be imagined where all racket speed comes from an arm that is locked to torso such that the torso rotation fully dictates racket speed. The arm must be allowed fly, fully released from torso. I have achieved this on my 1h backhand but not on my forehand yet.
Probably doesn't help that so much tennis instruction especially on youtube focuses on using the legs and the body to move the arm, rather than allowing the arm to be moved by itself too. Too many people call that 'arming the ball'.
no. however, we’re not advocating for the average player to try this exact technique. You need to have very solid fundamentals until you can apply this. most club Players need to focus on fundamentals first
This is excellent forehand instruction. Probably the best I have seen on YT. World class WTA/ATP level modern forehand instruction. Are you saying the forehand take back should be 90 degrees angle and not 61 degrees with shortened ATP take back? Which I would agree with. Chapeau!
thanks for your feedback. There is no one size fits all answer to the takeback. It depends a lot on where you are at with your forehand, and what the biggest problems on your forehand currently are.
@14.56 . Does it mean that progression concept doesn't work on high level (or for fixes/improvements). Do you think it's still good for beginners to study from scratch
How do we get access to the forehand coaching? There only seems to be the serve coaching via the link. I would really like to get an analysis on my forehand done and also follow up coaching like in the video
Hey Keenan, here is the direct link to the forehand coaching: forehand.onlinetennisinstruction.com/digital-coach-tfd61549419 With this, you can get your forehand reviewed within the next 7 days by a certified OTI Instructor.
Hi Florian, I would like to have a personalized analysis of my forehand with frequent feedbacks and follow ups. I play tennis since I was a kid and now im 30 years old, I am an advanced player and have plenty of issues with my forehand. Let me know how to reach you. Thank you very much.
Hey Marian, It's James here from OTI. Our best program for this is called The OTI Digital Coach that will allow you to get a personalised video analysis of your forehand and also access to all our video courses and modules. We currently have a special trial offer for just $10, so you can get your forehand reviewed within the next 7 days if you signed up now. Here is the link if you're interested: forehand.onlinetennisinstruction.com/digital-coach-tfd61549419
yes, it does. However, the looseness in the arm and the wrist comes from improved technique and not from trying to be loose in the arm and wrist. You first develop the technique for it and then the looseness usually happens naturally. Sometimes we need to work on the looseness after the technical change a little bit. Other times It just comes naturally with the improved technique.
To know how I learn new I cutu hair it's very true super models need to be new sets new hair styles new people new places that needed shaved heads the learning has tp be part of life I tilldeath old ahe preferred . So it is the hair cut and CV clothing and share with the teams the needs see where like the strahetu the ehame is won as my nails are done 👍
Удар прежде всего жолжен быть надёжный,а скорость второстепена☝️...подтверддение тому Медведев и Джокович..да и Надаль.,если ты не можешь сделать 100 ударов ,никакая сила не поможет
There is no elastic muscle!!! - muscle contracts and relaxes. Spin only comes from upward motion at impact NOT from storing energy in a muscle But overall great analysis
seid ihr sicher, dass die Technikveränderung der Grund für Ihren Sprung in Ranking? Ich wirklich nicht. Prestretch im Unterarm sind normalerweise kein Problem für Männer, aber SEHR OFT ein Problem für die Frauen. Schon beim Neandertaler, kann man unter anderem das Geschlecht an den Unterarmknochen unterscheiden. Rick Macci Ideology. (ATP vs. WTA forehand). Einfach am Anfang wird postuliert „shorter backswing = higher racket head speed“. Really??? Shorter preparation time - yes. But higher racket head speed? No. Look at the fastest hitter and their technique. Next question: do You really want more spin for women?
ganz sicher. Ihre Vorhand war vorher unterdurchschnittlich und ist jetzt eine richtige Waffe. Der Grund für ihre erhöhte Schlägerkopfgeschwindigkeit ist der optimierte pre-stretch im Unterarm. Man kann das sehr genau an den Winkeln sehen in der Zeitlupe. und ja, wir wollen auch bei den Frauen sowohl mehr Schlägerkopfgeschwindigkeit als auch mehr Topspin. Was wir nicht wollen, ist nur mehr Topspin ohne die notwendige Schlägerkopfgeschwindigkeit. Dann sind die Bälle zu angreifbar. Auch bei den Damen entwickelt sich die Vorhand immer mehr in die gleiche Richtung wie bei den Herren. In einigen Jahren werden alle top Frauen die Vorhand technisch auch so spielen wie die Herren.
@@florianmeier9958 ich will nicht meckern… das Video is eine gute Arbeit. Ich will nur einen aufrichtigen Feedback geben. Für mich folgt aus dem Video nur, dass ihr der Spielerin ein Soll gezeigt habt, ziemlich gut das Soll (mithilfe von Videoanalyse beschrieben habt) und sie hat es gelernt. ich weiss, dass nicht jeder Spieler so schnell lernt. klar. Kredit zu ihr. Und auch zu Euch didaktisch. Bzgl. der Winkel: die meiste Zeit ist es um die Beschreibung der Winkel von setup gegangen und dort wurde der großen Unterschied von bevor and after gezeigt. And dem Winkel von “flipp back” hat man nicht sehr viel Unterschied gesehen. Nur verbal darüber g´redt. Nominal ball speed increase habe ich auch nicht gesehen (mit mehr Spin wird bei größeren Schlägerkopfgeschwindigkeit auch wohl nicht viel gegeben). Schlägerkopfgeschwindigkeit - obwohl man könnte - habt ihr auch nicht gezeigt (genauso wie Rick Macci kaum objektive Nummern zeigt, sondern nur darüber redet). Ich glaube der Unterschied bei mehr Verwendung von Vorarm („ATP style“) sieht man nicht an erhöhter SchlägerkopfGESCHWINDINGKEIT, sondern an erhöhter SchlägerkopfBESCHLÄUNIGUNG (und daraus resultierender kürzeren Vorbereitungsphase). Dass es mehr und mehr bei den Damen verwendet wird, ist zwar wahr, aber - obwohl über die angeblichen klaren Vorteile schon fast 20 Jahre geredet wird - wenn es so viel vorteilhaft wäre, die, die es verwenden würden längst dominieren, was nicht der Fall ist. Und zwar bis vor kurzem nicht einmal bei den Männern. Söderling (der Nadal in prime in Roland Garros geschlagen hat, und dem Roger für seinen French open Titel danken kann), hat kein schneller prestetch gehabt, Del Potro, Gonzales (diskutiert als vielleicht die best Vorhand ever) …etc. etc. Schau die Nummern an (nominal speed, rpm…) von ihrer „ altmodischen Vorhand“. Und bzgl. der Damen: mehr wird es (ohne Verletzungen) bei denen mit einem eher männlichen Somatotyp verwendet. Es gibt Ausnahmen, aber schauma nach einigen Jahren ihre Verletzungsgeschichte an. Sabalenka, kein schnelles prestretch, Rybakina genauso, Krejcikova dasselbe (sie braucht schnelle Hände in doubles, oder?) und ich kann fortsetzten, Swiatek genauso. Lustig ist, dass sogar Kenin, die Macci trainiert(e) hat eine altmodische Vorhand. Dabei hat sie aber ein schnelles prestretch an der Rückhand (da verstehe ich allerdings gar nicht, warum man SOWAS nicht unterrichtet - und zwar auch bei den Damen, wo mit zwei Händen am Schläger, keine Verletzungen drohen. biomechanisch man es einen Sinn. und schau Dir baseballschläge - auch zwei hände am Schläger). Fazit: Wenn die „WTA Vorhand“ so nachteilhaft wäre, wären die ATPlerinen längst oben und grandslams gewinnen. So wie Leute mit dem kontinentalem Grip an den Grundschägen ausgestorben sind und semiwestern hat begonnen zu dominieren. Bzgl. der Prognose - ich bin SEHR überzeugt, dass bei den Damen die „ATPlerinen“ nicht die top 50-100 dominieren werden und diese coaching Mode vorbeigeht resp. wird man es viel mehr nur bestimmten weiblichen Somatotypen unterrichten und zwar erst wenn sie erwachsen sind. Bei den Juniorinen sieht man es eh kaum. Warum wohl?
The writing of the explanations covers the racquet at all times… impossible to see what you are explaining. Can’t you just leave the written part out ou place it somewhere else on the screen??
that is correct. obviously, a Lot of factors go into where somebody is in the ranking. However, she was stuck at 450 and her forehand was really letting her down before we helped her change it in November/December. So, this improvement in the ranking is directly correlated to the forehand improvement
I'm very impressed by this. It helps that you're working with a pro already, but at the same time, it can be hard to break existing habits and muscle memory. THAT is the bit I'm most impressed about. Well done all.
I have been changing my forehand at the age of 65 yrs young! Played since I was around 10 yrs shame we weren’t taught then what you have been highlighting here as also others do. Your analysis makes sense re high takeback drawbacks others advocate that but I found doing that is difficult to feed a ball to one self and hit it as takes up too much movement and time. Also over shoulder rotation point is good ie it doesn’t increase racquet speed but lessens the full potential. Cocking the risk on the backswing and getting to somewhere close to ‘patting the dog’ position gives me a sense/ feel of so much more power than my old fashioned loopy topspin shot with little penetration and lots of arm effort. I have a sense now of what to do just need to keep practicing in my net air swings and in practice and friendly matches. I have an over 40’s ! final to play in March so working towards being able to hit forehands with power spin and control by then. Thanks for your valuable insights.
of all tennis coaches in youtube, OTI is my top favorite because of their quality teachings, very systematic, technical focus and will surely improve a tennis player's game. Goodluck guys and congratulations you are the best.
Thanks a lot for the incredible feedback!
I am a bit confused. Rybakina, Sabalenka, Swiatek for example do not tilt their rackets and have a killer forehand.
Federer started his career with the "before" pullback with the racquet tip facing upwards. Of course Federer had a killer forehand already back then. But later, Federer made the change similar to the "after" forehand. Nonetheless can result in a faster preparation though.
@@alexw7875 was Federer in wta?
@@nicolasX2602 he can if you want him to be :) Seriously though, for good forehand mechanics and form, no difference for different genders.
@@alexw7875 women and men play differently because of biomechanics.
@@nicolasX2602 like what ? What differences matter to the form of a powerful forehand ?
Very helpful video for those of us at the advanced level, as clear, simple instruction is always easier to follow, understand and more importantly feel in practice …I particularly like the idea of, using the hands to improve racquet speed, as IMO the relaxed hands are one the absolute vital elements in tennis, as tension will generally manifests itself with a tight grip….Many thanks Florian and James…Namaste 🙏
Really cool, and thank you for sharing this
you are welcome!
Good job guys.
Could you guys take a look at my sister Jamie Loeb, her forehand needs technical change, she is 300 in the world? Think zoom then in person would be huge for her!
Hi Jason. Please email me at florian@onlinetennisinstruction.com with a little more info on her situation
interesting but watch Halep closely in slow motion....she has a very high racket head at the start before taking the racket back very similar to Leonie before this coaching...Halep still has the lag even though she is not pointing the racket toward the side fence
Lot of respect for Florian. Yet, I wonder if her main problem all along was her conception of rotation, as mentioned. An extreme of never letting the arm act independently can be imagined where all racket speed comes from an arm that is locked to torso such that the torso rotation fully dictates racket speed. The arm must be allowed fly, fully released from torso. I have achieved this on my 1h backhand but not on my forehand yet.
Probably doesn't help that so much tennis instruction especially on youtube focuses on using the legs and the body to move the arm, rather than allowing the arm to be moved by itself too. Too many people call that 'arming the ball'.
Thank you. Very insightful video! Will it be a different advise for a (semi) western grips?
no. however, we’re not advocating for the average player to try this exact technique. You need to have very solid fundamentals until you can apply this. most club Players need to focus on fundamentals first
This is excellent forehand instruction. Probably the best I have seen on YT. World class WTA/ATP level modern forehand instruction. Are you saying the forehand take back should be 90 degrees angle and not 61 degrees with shortened ATP take back? Which I would agree with. Chapeau!
thanks for your feedback. There is no one size fits all answer to the takeback. It depends a lot on where you are at with your forehand, and what the biggest problems on your forehand currently are.
Great to hear that you enjoyed the video!
@14.56 . Does it mean that progression concept doesn't work on high level (or for fixes/improvements). Do you think it's still good for beginners to study from scratch
Everybody needs to stick to the progressions, including professional players!
@@OnlineTennisInstruction Thanks, then I think I misinterpreted this
How do we get access to the forehand coaching? There only seems to be the serve coaching via the link. I would really like to get an analysis on my forehand done and also follow up coaching like in the video
Hey Keenan, here is the direct link to the forehand coaching: forehand.onlinetennisinstruction.com/digital-coach-tfd61549419
With this, you can get your forehand reviewed within the next 7 days by a certified OTI Instructor.
Gracias
Hi Florian, I would like to have a personalized analysis of my forehand with frequent feedbacks and follow ups. I play tennis since I was a kid and now im 30 years old, I am an advanced player and have plenty of issues with my forehand. Let me know how to reach you. Thank you very much.
Hey Marian, It's James here from OTI. Our best program for this is called The OTI Digital Coach that will allow you to get a personalised video analysis of your forehand and also access to all our video courses and modules. We currently have a special trial offer for just $10, so you can get your forehand reviewed within the next 7 days if you signed up now. Here is the link if you're interested: forehand.onlinetennisinstruction.com/digital-coach-tfd61549419
Would you do the same for one handed backhand?
..... regarding her ranking you forgot to mention that her WTA ranking was 144 in September 2020
Looks like the only way you can keep the racket on the hitting side is to pull the elbow back ENOUGH.
She will be in 100 in the near future.
Overall loosness in arm and wirst. Is this work as well with dead and slow balls?
yes, it does. However, the looseness in the arm and the wrist comes from improved technique and not from trying to be loose in the arm and wrist. You first develop the technique for it and then the looseness usually happens naturally. Sometimes we need to work on the looseness after the technical change a little bit. Other times It just comes naturally with the improved technique.
@@florianmeier9958 thank you for detailed answer.👍
False ! The forehand does lay back but not a factor in power ! It is not an elastic band that snaps back ! That is exactly Counterproductive.
than Holger Rune making all wrong ?🤔🤔🤔🤔
Baez, Rybakina all keep tip to the sky. I do similar so rackets quickly.
To know how I learn new I cutu hair it's very true super models need to be new sets new hair styles new people new places that needed shaved heads the learning has tp be part of life I tilldeath old ahe preferred . So it is the hair cut and CV clothing and share with the teams the needs see where like the strahetu the ehame is won as my nails are done 👍
Удар прежде всего жолжен быть надёжный,а скорость второстепена☝️...подтверддение тому Медведев и Джокович..да и Надаль.,если ты не можешь сделать 100 ударов ,никакая сила не поможет
There is no elastic muscle!!! - muscle contracts and relaxes.
Spin only comes from upward motion at impact NOT from storing energy in a muscle
But overall great analysis
seid ihr sicher, dass die Technikveränderung der Grund für Ihren Sprung in Ranking? Ich wirklich nicht. Prestretch im Unterarm sind normalerweise kein Problem für Männer, aber SEHR OFT ein Problem für die Frauen. Schon beim Neandertaler, kann man unter anderem das Geschlecht an den Unterarmknochen unterscheiden. Rick Macci Ideology. (ATP vs. WTA forehand). Einfach am Anfang wird postuliert „shorter backswing = higher racket head speed“. Really??? Shorter preparation time - yes. But higher racket head speed? No. Look at the fastest hitter and their technique. Next question: do You really want more spin for women?
ganz sicher. Ihre Vorhand war vorher unterdurchschnittlich und ist jetzt eine richtige Waffe. Der Grund für ihre erhöhte Schlägerkopfgeschwindigkeit ist der optimierte pre-stretch im Unterarm. Man kann das sehr genau an den Winkeln sehen in der Zeitlupe. und ja, wir wollen auch bei den Frauen sowohl mehr Schlägerkopfgeschwindigkeit als auch mehr Topspin. Was wir nicht wollen, ist nur mehr Topspin ohne die notwendige Schlägerkopfgeschwindigkeit. Dann sind die Bälle zu angreifbar. Auch bei den Damen entwickelt sich die Vorhand immer mehr in die gleiche Richtung wie bei den Herren. In einigen Jahren werden alle top Frauen die Vorhand technisch auch so spielen wie die Herren.
@@florianmeier9958 ich will nicht meckern… das Video is eine gute Arbeit. Ich will nur einen aufrichtigen Feedback geben. Für mich folgt aus dem Video nur, dass ihr der Spielerin ein Soll gezeigt habt, ziemlich gut das Soll (mithilfe von Videoanalyse beschrieben habt) und sie hat es gelernt. ich weiss, dass nicht jeder Spieler so schnell lernt. klar. Kredit zu ihr. Und auch zu Euch didaktisch.
Bzgl. der Winkel: die meiste Zeit ist es um die Beschreibung der Winkel von setup gegangen und dort wurde der großen Unterschied von bevor and after gezeigt. And dem Winkel von “flipp back” hat man nicht sehr viel Unterschied gesehen. Nur verbal darüber g´redt. Nominal ball speed increase habe ich auch nicht gesehen (mit mehr Spin wird bei größeren Schlägerkopfgeschwindigkeit auch wohl nicht viel gegeben). Schlägerkopfgeschwindigkeit - obwohl man könnte - habt ihr auch nicht gezeigt (genauso wie Rick Macci kaum objektive Nummern zeigt, sondern nur darüber redet). Ich glaube der Unterschied bei mehr Verwendung von Vorarm („ATP style“) sieht man nicht an erhöhter SchlägerkopfGESCHWINDINGKEIT, sondern an erhöhter SchlägerkopfBESCHLÄUNIGUNG (und daraus resultierender kürzeren Vorbereitungsphase). Dass es mehr und mehr bei den Damen verwendet wird, ist zwar wahr, aber - obwohl über die angeblichen klaren Vorteile schon fast 20 Jahre geredet wird - wenn es so viel vorteilhaft wäre, die, die es verwenden würden längst dominieren, was nicht der Fall ist. Und zwar bis vor kurzem nicht einmal bei den Männern. Söderling (der Nadal in prime in Roland Garros geschlagen hat, und dem Roger für seinen French open Titel danken kann), hat kein schneller prestetch gehabt, Del Potro, Gonzales (diskutiert als vielleicht die best Vorhand ever) …etc. etc. Schau die Nummern an (nominal speed, rpm…) von ihrer „ altmodischen Vorhand“.
Und bzgl. der Damen: mehr wird es (ohne Verletzungen) bei denen mit einem eher männlichen Somatotyp verwendet. Es gibt Ausnahmen, aber schauma nach einigen Jahren ihre Verletzungsgeschichte an. Sabalenka, kein schnelles prestretch, Rybakina genauso, Krejcikova dasselbe (sie braucht schnelle Hände in doubles, oder?) und ich kann fortsetzten, Swiatek genauso. Lustig ist, dass sogar Kenin, die Macci trainiert(e) hat eine altmodische Vorhand. Dabei hat sie aber ein schnelles prestretch an der Rückhand (da verstehe ich allerdings gar nicht, warum man SOWAS nicht unterrichtet - und zwar auch bei den Damen, wo mit zwei Händen am Schläger, keine Verletzungen drohen. biomechanisch man es einen Sinn. und schau Dir baseballschläge - auch zwei hände am Schläger). Fazit: Wenn die „WTA Vorhand“ so nachteilhaft wäre, wären die ATPlerinen längst oben und grandslams gewinnen. So wie Leute mit dem kontinentalem Grip an den Grundschägen ausgestorben sind und semiwestern hat begonnen zu dominieren.
Bzgl. der Prognose - ich bin SEHR überzeugt, dass bei den Damen die „ATPlerinen“ nicht die top 50-100 dominieren werden und diese coaching Mode vorbeigeht resp. wird man es viel mehr nur bestimmten weiblichen Somatotypen unterrichten und zwar erst wenn sie erwachsen sind. Bei den Juniorinen sieht man es eh kaum. Warum wohl?
@@imatrOlda only time will tell I guess :)
The writing of the explanations covers the racquet at all times… impossible to see what you are explaining. Can’t you just leave the written part out ou place it somewhere else on the screen??
The only change she made is the lowered take back. Otherwise it’s still the same old WTA forehand.
You're not paying attention to her elbow height on the way back which influences this. So it's clearly becoming more of a modern/atp style forehand.
ha ha, she was #220 on Jul 26 2021:)) with old forehand
that is correct. obviously, a Lot of factors go into where somebody is in the ranking. However, she was stuck at 450 and her forehand was really letting her down before we helped her change it in November/December. So, this improvement in the ranking is directly correlated to the forehand improvement
She was 144 in 2020.