I love this, the deck is no longer "I just play doctors and hope it all goes well". Also Bigger on the inside + Staff of domination lets u infinite mana and draw ur whole deck to play all ur docs, followed by Galifray followed extra turn followed ur opponents screaming EXTERMINATE!!! as they blow up into tiny bits :D
9:39 I like the combo, but two questions I have with this: 1) Clockspinning's phrasing implies it targets counters, NOT permanents, so would this still trigger Orvars ability, as that only triggers when you target one or more other permanents; 2) Clockspinning can only target counters, NOT permanents, and Orvar only lets you make copies of things targeted by the instant or sorcery, so when you say we can copy Peregrine Drake or lands, even if I am wrong in point #1 about the counters being targeted over the permanents, how would Clockspinning even target Peregrine or the lands in the first place if they don't possess any counters?
@@spencerlindsay7135 That's not correct. It targets permanents. It *chooses* a counter on the permanent that you target. Targeting and choosing are different in magic. This is a well-established combo that's been around since Orvar was first printed. If you're still unsure, feel free to consult additional resources such as Commander Spellbook.
Hey i'm really loving the new gonti, could you make a video about how to make it better? i'll try a more control deck with untaping mana, but i'd love to see other options.
Hmm. That's a tough one. Traditional theft decks often lose focus really easily on account of them not having their own wincons. Just for value though, you should definitely consider - Sage of the Beyond - See the Truth - Surge of Brilliance - Poxwalkers - Savvy Trader - Sisterhood of Karn - The Thirteenth Doctor
can you help with a be'lakor the dark master? I've brewed and scrapped the deck about 4 times now because I can't seem to get it to function on a high powered casual level
Hmm. I can see why; 6 mana in Grixis is a tough thing to get moving. I helped someone with a Clones version of the deck a while back, but I don't think that's the right way to go. You definitely want demons in play before Belakor, and demons to play after, but what I'm really thinking is something that's going to make a bunch of big demons enter all at once. There are a few red cards that'd do it, but I'll sort through them for the ones I think are best later today. I'll come back to this.
Alright, so the three I was most impressed with were - Kindred Charge - Clone Legion - Molten Echoes Since Be'lakor wants you to have a few demons in play before it comes down, you could follow up Belakor with Kindred Charge to make a ton of demons and drill an enemy life total to zero (or remove enough blockers to do so). And that's before even going to combat. Of course you need a lot of mana, but you know that already if you've built it that many times.
Hey thanks so much ! I love all your videos, the formatting- the jazz intro/ and the power rating Thank you so much for the recommendations - I think I’ll find a way to slot them in!
Seems decent and well thought out. Might want to add more evasion though since alot of doctors care about attacking like the war doctor, fugitive doctor, 10th, 11th, 15th, and 7th and to an extent, 3rd, 9th, and 1st (of course 9th doctor isnt really going to matter here) plus Fourteen with haste. For my deckb i have rose noble in the command zone and the only creature that she doesnt trigger for is Alistair, the Brigadier. Also found that Key to the City is perfect for this deck. Gives evasion and card draw plus if you have a doctor in your hand, you can discard it to allow 14th doctor to become it. I also kept the psychic paper to help get in commander damage but also if i have clara oswald out, i can get extra triggers off my companions by changing their creature type to doctor. Also if something is preventing 14 from being useful like a passifism for example, i can use the psychic paper to set off the legend rule and put him back in the command zone.
You can't use Key to the City to let the 14th Doctor become what you discard. He specifically says it needs to go to the graveyard *from your library.*
So Arcade Gannon from the Fallout set might be worth considering. Both The Fourteenth Doctor and Gallifrey Stands only card about Doctors, not Time Lord Doctors. Give the option to draw off of his ability, and can potentially play some cards from the GY
If you were also running a lot of fetchlands, I think that could work. But in general, getting it from graveyard to library is more valuable than getting it from hand to library on account of 14 digging 14 deep for doctors with each cast. Every game I played that getting it back from hand came up in, I always had either Trenzalore or the Midnight clock available to help. Another option I considered was Finale of Revalation, but I never had enough mana to make that work.
I'm really unimpressed. Our other bounce tools actually do something *besides* bounce 14 in addition to doing so. Erratic Portal is a 5 mana investment to do so. The closest comparison is Baral's expertise, which, for the same cost, can remove two permanents, return 14 to hand, *and recast him,* all in one package. With all the other balls this commander is juggling, I don't think the portal is nearly efficient enough to be worth considering.
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 Unless you copy it with Orvar and bounce 14 over and over again, if you don't have access to Sanctum of Eternity, I guess :/ I'm building Fourteen + Susan, because a mana dork in the Command Zone sounds fantastic, and now I have some open slots that I have to fill.
Cloud of Faeries doesn't untap enough mana on its own to serve as the combo piece that drake is. If you ran cloud of faeries, you'd need at least two lands that both tap for 2+ mana each. Palinchron goes infinite on its own under the same conditions (yay), but is much harder to cast, so I cut it.
@dalekrek2213 I'll have to answer this in a few different ways. First, you don't have to build for GS even with this deck as is. Like I said, by the time you've won with GS, you've already won in a dozen other ways. Notably, the core of the combo (Orvar+Peregrine+Clockspinning) also generates infinite mana, card draw, and token copies of permanents you control. So make infinite drakes and take the extra turn like normal, just without GS. Second, I think the next most elegant wincon with cards you'd already be running in this build is that 5th Doctor combo I mentioned. But lastly, if you went back and chose a different companion to get access to black, I think there's something to be said about a Staff of Domination + Deathbloom Ritualist combo. Not only is the staff a 3 mana artifact (so it synergizes with several doctors already), but the 14th Doctor's cast trigger fills the yard for Deathbloom easily, so you can get infinite xyz that way too. I'd say those are my top 3 wins if I'm excluding Gallifrey Stands.
Im sorry to ask for spoonfeeding but ive skimmed through the video twice and im not seeing the fifth doctor combo. Wpuld you mind specifying it for me?@aegisgamingofficial2178
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 Sorry to ask to be spoonfed but I cant find this 5th doctor combo in the video. Maybe Im just missing it. Could you specify the combo for me?
Well, it'd be okay- after all, you don't need my permission to change things about the deck 😅- but asking if it's close to Curfew is an easy answer. There's really nothing else even close to Curfew (besides Run Away Together and This Town Ain't Big Enough). The Doctor really needs the ability to hit other creatures *and* itself for cheap. It's not like it's a super broken or expensive card either, so I'm sure most people would be fine if you just proxied it until you could source it (or indefinitely) if you just explained that you can't get it anywhere.
You missed some of the best Doctors like Morophon (using Vislor or Clara naming black) and Chamelion Collosus. 4/4 doctor with protection from black with built in pump can steal games Edit: Going black allows cards like Entomb to put the Doctor you want into your grave. What is more fun then playing Fist of Suns and Entomb a Morophon and playing all of your Doctor cards in hand for free after you cast Gallifrey Stands them all to hand
@redblackdg re: "What's more fun...?" Playing a good deck. Entomb, Morophon, Chameleon Colossus, and Fist of Suns are a lot of extra card slots that we just don't have. I'm certainly not cutting doctors for them, and I'm certainly not cutting card draw or interaction, which just leaves ramp, which is part of another combo with 5th doc+adric. They're not missed, they're excluded. I don't think using a commander just for the colors is good practice- it makes decks less creative, unique, and more uniform across the format. Picking Vislor for black when this is nothing like a burn deck or Clara for black when her triggers don't actually interact with 14 doesn't make a ton of sense here. Now if you instead built a Morophon deck, it would make sense to cram in Clara, fist of suns, etc, but that's not what this is. Our choice of Doctor (14 here) and the consequences thereof should shape our choice of companion, and I believe I've provided enough analysis on that front.
@ didnt mention it because of costs but. Vampiric Tutor, Impereal Seal, Insatiable Avarice and well Worldly Tutor all put the desired Doctor on top of the deck. Vislor can help yourself draw cards or you can add a combo piece to help Vislor. Only need 1 slot for that. Clara doesnt help the 14th but helps all others he turns into. Like the 3rd you get 2 tokens on etb. You get 1 addition untap with the 5th. You double any attack triggers they have. So narrow only thinking about the cast trigger. Also helps with Changeling triggers aswell as they are Doctors. Getting two Orvar triggers allows Cloud of Faeries to pop off a bit. 3 card combo instead of two. All that being said there is a ton you can do with the 14th and almost any companion. Id add more but that goes into cEDH territory. Example Food Chain.
9th doctor plus 5th doctor can trigger and upkeep in endstep to win the game with galifrey stands and the 9th doctor is a 3 drop, very much one of the better doctors to run...
@bumpyblue5295 5th Doctor doesn't untap attackers. So you need even more pieces than that. And if that's literally the only other synergy- because only two other doctors get you upkeep triggers- then I have to disagree: he's very much *not* one of the better Doctors to run.
@@eeveemaster8902 The first ability is not what allows this to work... it's irrelevant to the combo. It doesn't say that. Those are two separate abilities.
@eeveemaster8902 It does not say "when you cast the 14th doctor, you may have it enter as a copy." The cast trigger is a *completely separate ability* from the second paragraph, which is what allows him to enter as a copy. The second ability works *even when he isn't cast.* For comparison, see cards like Phyrexian Metamorph.
Changeling doesn't work with doctors for a card to be a doctor it has to have only the doctor and time Lord creature types. It's a dumb rule and I hate it. But I love my doctors tribal deck I've been working on
That's incorrect. The rule you are thinking of is about *Doctor's Companion,* which refers only to creatures with *ONLY* the creature types "Time Lord" and "Doctor." But any cards referencing Doctor as a creature type still function as normal. For example, if you cast Kindred Dominance, choosing Doctor as the creature type, all creatures with Changeling will be spared as well. But I couldn't have Adric as a second commander if Orvar was my first commander, since Orvar has more creature types than Time Lord and Doctor. The difference is that one of these effects says "The Doctor" and the other might say "a doctor" or "all doctors."
I just want a dumb fun Doctor Deck with Gallirfrey Stands
What the people want
This video is fantastic, excellent job breaking down the deck building choices
Holy 29 minutes? Guess I know what to watch during my lunch break
I love this, the deck is no longer "I just play doctors and hope it all goes well". Also Bigger on the inside + Staff of domination lets u infinite mana and draw ur whole deck to play all ur docs, followed by Galifray followed extra turn followed ur opponents screaming EXTERMINATE!!! as they blow up into tiny bits :D
9:39 I like the combo, but two questions I have with this:
1) Clockspinning's phrasing implies it targets counters, NOT permanents, so would this still trigger Orvars ability, as that only triggers when you target one or more other permanents;
2) Clockspinning can only target counters, NOT permanents, and Orvar only lets you make copies of things targeted by the instant or sorcery, so when you say we can copy Peregrine Drake or lands, even if I am wrong in point #1 about the counters being targeted over the permanents, how would Clockspinning even target Peregrine or the lands in the first place if they don't possess any counters?
@@spencerlindsay7135 That's not correct. It targets permanents. It *chooses* a counter on the permanent that you target. Targeting and choosing are different in magic. This is a well-established combo that's been around since Orvar was first printed. If you're still unsure, feel free to consult additional resources such as Commander Spellbook.
Quite the deck doctor episode.
Haha, doctor pun
Hey i'm really loving the new gonti, could you make a video about how to make it better? i'll try a more control deck with untaping mana, but i'd love to see other options.
Hmm. That's a tough one. Traditional theft decks often lose focus really easily on account of them not having their own wincons. Just for value though, you should definitely consider
- Sage of the Beyond
- See the Truth
- Surge of Brilliance
- Poxwalkers
- Savvy Trader
- Sisterhood of Karn
- The Thirteenth Doctor
can you help with a be'lakor the dark master? I've brewed and scrapped the deck about 4 times now because I can't seem to get it to function on a high powered casual level
Hmm. I can see why; 6 mana in Grixis is a tough thing to get moving. I helped someone with a Clones version of the deck a while back, but I don't think that's the right way to go. You definitely want demons in play before Belakor, and demons to play after, but what I'm really thinking is something that's going to make a bunch of big demons enter all at once. There are a few red cards that'd do it, but I'll sort through them for the ones I think are best later today. I'll come back to this.
Alright, so the three I was most impressed with were
- Kindred Charge
- Clone Legion
- Molten Echoes
Since Be'lakor wants you to have a few demons in play before it comes down, you could follow up Belakor with Kindred Charge to make a ton of demons and drill an enemy life total to zero (or remove enough blockers to do so). And that's before even going to combat.
Of course you need a lot of mana, but you know that already if you've built it that many times.
Hey thanks so much ! I love all your videos, the formatting- the jazz intro/ and the power rating
Thank you so much for the recommendations - I think I’ll find a way to slot them in!
Seems decent and well thought out. Might want to add more evasion though since alot of doctors care about attacking like the war doctor, fugitive doctor, 10th, 11th, 15th, and 7th and to an extent, 3rd, 9th, and 1st (of course 9th doctor isnt really going to matter here) plus Fourteen with haste. For my deckb i have rose noble in the command zone and the only creature that she doesnt trigger for is Alistair, the Brigadier. Also found that Key to the City is perfect for this deck. Gives evasion and card draw plus if you have a doctor in your hand, you can discard it to allow 14th doctor to become it. I also kept the psychic paper to help get in commander damage but also if i have clara oswald out, i can get extra triggers off my companions by changing their creature type to doctor. Also if something is preventing 14 from being useful like a passifism for example, i can use the psychic paper to set off the legend rule and put him back in the command zone.
You can't use Key to the City to let the 14th Doctor become what you discard. He specifically says it needs to go to the graveyard *from your library.*
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 you are so right and ive been cheating and no one has stopped me
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 omg that's funny thank you for catching that
@@aegisgamingofficial2178it's still good for evasion and you can just get them back later with the 8th doctor or gallifrey stands
So Arcade Gannon from the Fallout set might be worth considering. Both The Fourteenth Doctor and Gallifrey Stands only card about Doctors, not Time Lord Doctors.
Give the option to draw off of his ability, and can potentially play some cards from the GY
make a ninth doctor deck!!
Would Brainstorm be a possible add for the deck. Gives a way to put The Third Doctor bavk on top if he ends up in your hand
If you were also running a lot of fetchlands, I think that could work. But in general, getting it from graveyard to library is more valuable than getting it from hand to library on account of 14 digging 14 deep for doctors with each cast. Every game I played that getting it back from hand came up in, I always had either Trenzalore or the Midnight clock available to help. Another option I considered was Finale of Revalation, but I never had enough mana to make that work.
What do you think of running Erratic Portal as another tool to bounce Fourteen?
I'm really unimpressed. Our other bounce tools actually do something *besides* bounce 14 in addition to doing so. Erratic Portal is a 5 mana investment to do so. The closest comparison is Baral's expertise, which, for the same cost, can remove two permanents, return 14 to hand, *and recast him,* all in one package. With all the other balls this commander is juggling, I don't think the portal is nearly efficient enough to be worth considering.
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 Unless you copy it with Orvar and bounce 14 over and over again, if you don't have access to Sanctum of Eternity, I guess :/
I'm building Fourteen + Susan, because a mana dork in the Command Zone sounds fantastic, and now I have some open slots that I have to fill.
Would it also be better to include Cloud of Faeries & Palinchron or replacing Peregrine Drake?
Cloud of Faeries doesn't untap enough mana on its own to serve as the combo piece that drake is. If you ran cloud of faeries, you'd need at least two lands that both tap for 2+ mana each. Palinchron goes infinite on its own under the same conditions (yay), but is much harder to cast, so I cut it.
What would you do for wincons if you didnt build for Gallifrey Stands?
@dalekrek2213 I'll have to answer this in a few different ways.
First, you don't have to build for GS even with this deck as is. Like I said, by the time you've won with GS, you've already won in a dozen other ways. Notably, the core of the combo (Orvar+Peregrine+Clockspinning) also generates infinite mana, card draw, and token copies of permanents you control. So make infinite drakes and take the extra turn like normal, just without GS.
Second, I think the next most elegant wincon with cards you'd already be running in this build is that 5th Doctor combo I mentioned.
But lastly, if you went back and chose a different companion to get access to black, I think there's something to be said about a Staff of Domination + Deathbloom Ritualist combo. Not only is the staff a 3 mana artifact (so it synergizes with several doctors already), but the 14th Doctor's cast trigger fills the yard for Deathbloom easily, so you can get infinite xyz that way too. I'd say those are my top 3 wins if I'm excluding Gallifrey Stands.
Im sorry to ask for spoonfeeding but ive skimmed through the video twice and im not seeing the fifth doctor combo. Wpuld you mind specifying it for me?@aegisgamingofficial2178
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 Sorry to ask to be spoonfed but I cant find this 5th doctor combo in the video. Maybe Im just missing it. Could you specify the combo for me?
@@dalekrek2213 5th Doctor+Adric+mana dorks = infinite +1/+1 counters and infinite mana during your end step
And Fling to kill an opponent!!!
Is Boing worth considering for the ability to bounce and scry up to 3 if i say dont own curfew and cant source it
Well, it'd be okay- after all, you don't need my permission to change things about the deck 😅- but asking if it's close to Curfew is an easy answer. There's really nothing else even close to Curfew (besides Run Away Together and This Town Ain't Big Enough). The Doctor really needs the ability to hit other creatures *and* itself for cheap.
It's not like it's a super broken or expensive card either, so I'm sure most people would be fine if you just proxied it until you could source it (or indefinitely) if you just explained that you can't get it anywhere.
I know a Nazbol thumbnail when I see one. /s
You missed some of the best Doctors like Morophon (using Vislor or Clara naming black) and Chamelion Collosus. 4/4 doctor with protection from black with built in pump can steal games
Edit: Going black allows cards like Entomb to put the Doctor you want into your grave. What is more fun then playing Fist of Suns and Entomb a Morophon and playing all of your Doctor cards in hand for free after you cast Gallifrey Stands them all to hand
@redblackdg re: "What's more fun...?"
Playing a good deck.
Entomb, Morophon, Chameleon Colossus, and Fist of Suns are a lot of extra card slots that we just don't have. I'm certainly not cutting doctors for them, and I'm certainly not cutting card draw or interaction, which just leaves ramp, which is part of another combo with 5th doc+adric. They're not missed, they're excluded.
I don't think using a commander just for the colors is good practice- it makes decks less creative, unique, and more uniform across the format. Picking Vislor for black when this is nothing like a burn deck or Clara for black when her triggers don't actually interact with 14 doesn't make a ton of sense here. Now if you instead built a Morophon deck, it would make sense to cram in Clara, fist of suns, etc, but that's not what this is. Our choice of Doctor (14 here) and the consequences thereof should shape our choice of companion, and I believe I've provided enough analysis on that front.
@ didnt mention it because of costs but. Vampiric Tutor, Impereal Seal, Insatiable Avarice and well Worldly Tutor all put the desired Doctor on top of the deck. Vislor can help yourself draw cards or you can add a combo piece to help Vislor. Only need 1 slot for that.
Clara doesnt help the 14th but helps all others he turns into. Like the 3rd you get 2 tokens on etb. You get 1 addition untap with the 5th. You double any attack triggers they have. So narrow only thinking about the cast trigger. Also helps with Changeling triggers aswell as they are Doctors. Getting two Orvar triggers allows Cloud of Faeries to pop off a bit. 3 card combo instead of two.
All that being said there is a ton you can do with the 14th and almost any companion. Id add more but that goes into cEDH territory. Example Food Chain.
9th doctor plus 5th doctor can trigger and upkeep in endstep to win the game with galifrey stands and the 9th doctor is a 3 drop, very much one of the better doctors to run...
@bumpyblue5295 5th Doctor doesn't untap attackers. So you need even more pieces than that. And if that's literally the only other synergy- because only two other doctors get you upkeep triggers- then I have to disagree: he's very much *not* one of the better Doctors to run.
Wrong the 9th only triggers during untapstep so it does not go infinite at the end of turn
Just a shame the card is so hard to find
I don't think the 3rd doctor combo works as it's not blinking, the fourteenth doctor said cast, not entre the filed.
The 14th Doctor's second ability:
"He *enters the battlefield* as a copy of one of those doctors." So he will trigger the 3rd Doctor's ETB ability.
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 the first part of the card *when you cast this card, have him become a copy*
Cast is the key word
@@aegisgamingofficial2178 so yes it would do the first one. But not the instant blink as that wouldn't count as casting
@@eeveemaster8902 The first ability is not what allows this to work... it's irrelevant to the combo. It doesn't say that. Those are two separate abilities.
@eeveemaster8902 It does not say "when you cast the 14th doctor, you may have it enter as a copy." The cast trigger is a *completely separate ability* from the second paragraph, which is what allows him to enter as a copy. The second ability works *even when he isn't cast.* For comparison, see cards like Phyrexian Metamorph.
Changeling doesn't work with doctors for a card to be a doctor it has to have only the doctor and time Lord creature types. It's a dumb rule and I hate it. But I love my doctors tribal deck I've been working on
That's incorrect. The rule you are thinking of is about *Doctor's Companion,* which refers only to creatures with *ONLY* the creature types "Time Lord" and "Doctor." But any cards referencing Doctor as a creature type still function as normal.
For example, if you cast Kindred Dominance, choosing Doctor as the creature type, all creatures with Changeling will be spared as well.
But I couldn't have Adric as a second commander if Orvar was my first commander, since Orvar has more creature types than Time Lord and Doctor.
The difference is that one of these effects says "The Doctor" and the other might say "a doctor" or "all doctors."
I added the crappy doctors just because it already feels like a really bad deck, and if I win with it I want to win with full style points.
This is very original build. 😮 I dont like Doctors, but this look very interesting to play.
I shouldn't trust my gut
🤣 It was a good guess. I picked out Obeka and Gitrog as options because they were so exciting. I thought about both of them.
@aegisgamingofficial2178 on one hand I like the Gitrog, on the other I hate how pushed it is. It's better than Shadowheart in every way
@@aegisgamingofficial2178obeka will be the most-built commander from this set: tbh probably a good video to do for views!
I dont like the whole "They cost too much" when youre playing a lot of mana dorks and rocks. Should be fine
Hm, no. I cant image playing a doctor deck and not playing every single doctor