Who Did It Better? - Elvis Costello And The Attractions vs Robert Wyatt - Shipbuilding Comparison
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- Опубліковано 12 гру 2023
- In this video we're comparing Elvis Costello and Robert Wyatt, and their renditions of Shipbuilding. We're really enjoying getting to know more of Elvis' music. Though, we know nothing about Robert's. It's said that Elvis wrote this with Robert in mind, so this should be interesting. Please let us know who you think did it better. Enjoy!
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"Take me to task" refers to the Task Force which was the name given to the fleet of ships that sailed to the Falklands to fight.
The beginning of the song reflects the trade off of working in a shipyard building war ships. The chance of getting back to work and affording a winter coat for the wife, against the reality of creating a tool of war.
I love both versions but edge towards Elvis for the reasons Cynthia gives.
The someone got filled in,for saying people get killed in the result of the shipbuilding,I believe refers to someone got beaten up.
Impossible to choose. The piano is great on both. Costello has Chet Baker killing it on the trumpet, but Wyatt has the double bass. And Costello has Costello, but Wyatt has Wyatt. ;-) (They're both among my favourite vocalists.) Not too fond of the strings on Costello's version, though, but I couldn't pick one for the life of me. Thank God I don't have to.
(But: people aren't getting killed building the ships. They're building warships, and the people going to war on them are the ones getting killed.)
Robert Wyatt’s version is extremely haunting. The version from the Old Grey Whistle Test, which is live s sublime.
Robert Wyatt is 100% the better his version is haunting upsetting and real because this shit really happend love you did this🇬🇧❤️
"filled in" would be a colloquial ism for being beaten up. Beaten up possibly by some unemployed shipbuilders who now welcomed the opportunity of employment in building warships...and weren't happy that there were people saying that the ships they were now building would lead to people being killed...(I think!)
Robert Wyatt for me.
The Falklands war was simple for me. The islanders voted to remain British, and they were invaded by Argentina under the junta. We did what will always happen, and that's to protect our own people. Five RN ships lost, being Sir Galahad. Sheffield, Coventry, Ardent, and Antelope plus the merchant ship, Atlantic Conveyor. Many good men are " still on patrol " . I still think of it now.
Not only that but it got rid of a dictator too, which was a downfall celebrated in Argentina. Anglophobes both within and outside the UK will claim the UK was at fault somehow, but any British government would have had to intervene.
Yep still tugs at our heart strings !
Don't feel bad about not getting the meaning of songs on a first listening, that's the downside of blind reactions. The connection to the Falklands war in this is pretty subtle. It was a very difficult time which brought out the best and worst in people with terrible suffering on both sides which sadly I suppose is true of any conflict. As for the song, I agree that there is very little to choose between them, I knew Robert Wyatt's version first so that just edges it for me but EC did a great job and wrote it as well so no loser here. EC is a prolific artist and performs in many styles so there's lots to explore. For more of his softer side try 'Alison', 'Green shirt', 'party girl', 'a good year for the roses', 'Veronica'. Cheers
i like both versions but have always found the vocals by Elvis Costello on this and his other slower songs are just mesmerising and so unique.
I find Wyatt’s version so much more poignant. Probably because it was live.
Elvis Costellos voice is MAGIC 🎉
I prefer the the Robert Wyatt version. His voice is very plaintive, which suits the sadness in the lyrics. However, both versions are very good.
Both great tunes , Sad subject , both done superbly , had a mate from school who was on a supply ship during the Falklands War , 9 months at sea ( No thanks ) I said to him a few years after how did you cope being in a War zone with no Guns on board to protect your ship ? "Just stayed pissed " was his reply , also he said "The ship Im on is not made of Aluminium ,
which burns " The Royal Navy never made a War Ship out of Alloy again after what happened in this conflict !
Richard Wyatt gets my vote .. Cheers
I believe Costelli wrote the song in collaboration with Clive Langer. Great song, lyrically and musically. Talking of Costello, a good "who did it better" would be his version vs Brinsley Schwartz version of "(What so funny 'bout) Peace, Love and Undertanding". If only for the wonderful sentiments in that song....especially for us aging hippies!
Robert Wyatt was a founding member of the influential Canterbury scene in the UK with bands like Soft Machine. He was initially a kit drummer and singer before becoming paraplegic following an accidental fall from a window in 1973, which led him to abandon band work, explore other instruments, and begin a forty-year solo career.
He was a guest of David Gilmour at his 'Remember that night' tour and played the cornet at the end of 'Then I close my eyes' (a track from Gilmours 'on an island' album.
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You may wish to do it as a reaction ... ua-cam.com/video/FczzefszNEc/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
Since I was a kid , I've always understood. that getting filled in ,meant getting beaten up. So people getting filled in , for saying, people getting killed in, kinda makes sense .
Mark Bedford of MADNESS played the Double (stand up) Bass on Wyatts version.
Thank you for doing this one, like Cynthia I find it a difficult choice between the two. The 'Shipbuilding' of the title refers to a rumour in the U.K. at the time that they were going to have to reopen the Shipyards, which had recently been closed under Thatcherism, to replace any sunken battleships which were lost in The Falkland Conflict (which it was known as at the time, later changed to The Falklands War).
The line: "With all the will in the world, diving for dear life, when we could be diving for pearls" relates to submarines used during the conflict. The bit about "Taking me to task" and "being back for Christmas" is taking men for the Taskforce for the conflict.
Great insight Adam , cheers mate
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Great insight Adam , cheers mate
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As Roger Waters pointed out, the replacement for the Atlantic Conveyor, sunk in the Falklands, was built in Japan.
@@jaymacgee_A_Bawbag_Blethering Thanks, it helps that I was around at the time.
@@delorangeadeYes, Just goes to show how Thatcher's Government treated its workers back then.
Robert Wyatt vs the Monkees "I'm a believer" would be a great comparison
Although Costello wrote this song, I believe that Wyatt’s version was recorded and released first.
Costello wrote it for Robert Wyatt to record.
@@AnthonyMonaghan Clive Langer wrote the music.
Sorry, not going to even try to call this one. The shipyards were shut under the slag Thatcher and the rumours are about opening them up to replace the ones lost in the Falklands war. This war gave Thatcher a second term under a wave of jingoism fuelled by the appalling press in the UK. She went on to destroy Britain over a period of 10 years. As I've said before you need to have a look at Elvis's 'Tramp the Dirt Down' to get a real feeling of the hatred he had for her. It will put this song into context.
Wyatt's version is more honest, less theatrical & florid than Costello's.
The rhythm section on his version is made up of members of Madness.
The lyrics mean that someone was beaten up ("filled in") for pointing out that their new good fortune came at the expense of real lives.
Conscription for WW1 was done on the basis that "It'll be over by Christmas". There were rumours of drafting reserves for the Task Force at this time. As usual Costello blends his metaphors seamlessly...
Cynthia it's cool to be informed and checking out the lyrics to find the true meaning of the song is great 👍 👏👏👏
both great
Cynthia's attitude is refreshing and cool. They are shipbuilding to replace the warships that were sunk in the distant naval battle. The warships are the result of shipbuilding. The group of ships that were sent were called 'the task force' (so 'take me to task' is a sombre wordplay). Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms is about the land battle that followed the sea battle.
Costello wrote the lyrics. Langer wrote the music. Steve Nieve (of the Attractions) plays piano on both versions.
👍👍👍👍 it's easy and doesn't hurt so smash that 👍
Totally right big man 👏
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@@jaymacgee_A_Bawbag_Blethering kia ora hello Jay brother how ya doing?
@@heathcornbeef I’m good man .. just woken up n getting my groove on
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Prefer Wyatt's- has the rawness and simplicity of the common man together with the pathos, so much more befitting to the subject matter
I love this series. I have so much of the "Who did it better?" To recommend, lol. I'm sure I've recommended a few, but I suppose I'll probably recommend more as you come out with these awesome videos. So I guess I'll recommend The Stiffs vs. The Subhumans (Canada) vs. Overkill - F*ck You.(UA-cam won't let me post the song name, lo) I mentioned (Canada) because England has a Subhumans band that is much more popular, but in my opinion, Vancouver's Subhumans is much better. Stiffs/Subhumans are the same band but have different versions of the song. Also, I'm not sure how true, but I hear New Jersey's Overkill claim the song as their own, and that's never cool if true. Subhumans are such an unrated band. I feel they're a Canadian Stiff Little Fingers. Great band yet unknown. Even if you don't do a video, I highly recommend them.
The original plan for this song was an ep of 3 or 4 different artistes' interpretations, but after Wyatt's take they abandoned the idea.
C n C .. my comment to the bad man Vicbrit has disappeared , as has my own heartfelt and thoughtful critique of the songs and the general feeling in the country in 1982 …
Any ideas ,as this is getting me down now ?
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It's about what the ships do once they've been built ..... kill
I'm sorry kia ora hello Chris and Cynthia and all the HANIER CREW (goonies 😅😂) hope you are all well and enjoying your day ya better be having a great day or there will be TROUBLE 😵💫
The background is definitely that of economic depression in the UK.
I suspect the inflation rate in the Falklands is far less than that of Argentina at the moment, so the islanders probably came out of things on the right side of history. Roger Waters noted that the replacement for the Atlantic Conveyor, the largest ship sunk in the Falklands, was actually to be built in Japan, which seemed both ironic and a betrayal of the values we were supposed to be defending. The song is beautiful, but also a bit self-righteous and whiny. I think Brothers in Arms by Dire Straits is a much better take on the subject. The stand-up bass and Robert's vocals just about win this one for me.
Unless someone likes dictators they definitely came out the right side.
Um there's a few thumbs missing family WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?
EC wrote it. So you get the answer. And Chet Baker on trumpet, and the attractions !!! Who did it better ? Really ??? Are you kidding me ???
Chet makes the first version the best for me
Love Elvis, but Robert Wyatt’s has always been the better version for me.
Somebody got filled in ( beaten up) after mentioning that shipbuilding causes death
check the lyrics and a quick google before hand to find out what it's about might help?
Both song are different and OK. Only knew one song of Robert Wyatt,a melancholy song made after he fell out of a window and became paralized. It was in a Dutch program called Darklands, remember there was also a great song by Captain Beefheart in that program, i'm not a fan of his style but he once made a commercial record (his fans didn't like it at all) one of the songs of that album was played on the radio-program Darklands and that was a Beefheart song i liked and still like. This is the day, like the Robert Wyatt song it's a bit melancholic too and excellent.
ua-cam.com/video/9K_mf4mVmi0/v-deo.html
Wyatt was a superb drummer. His work with Soft Macine (especially on their double album THIRD) was exceptional. Falling out of the window put an end to all that
The great Steve Nieve on piano with the Elvis version. Chet Baker on what sounds like a cornet. "is it worth it? / a new winter coat and shoes for the wife"......meaning: the economy gets better and more money made in labor jobs because they are making ships for war.
I am not crazy about Robert Wyatt's voice. I like the piano throughout the Elvis version but the piano solo in Roberts is also very good. Nod to Elvis due to the voice, the piano throughout and the trumpet.
Note: the British are historically great at building ships and they are building ships for war and PEOPLE DIE on those ships of war. BTW: ("take me to task" is a British term for the DRAFT).. The boy is going to war and supposedly coming back from war by Christmas, but what if he dies? "Filled in" I believe is to die and be buried. Hope this helps. I got this album the day it came out and am a huge Elvis fan.
It's Steve Nieve on the Wyatt version too. And he's great on both, but especially so on Wyatt's version. And, to my surprise, the double-bass is Bedders from Madness! It's a great song, beautifully delivered by both singers. Costello produced the Wyatt version, so I'm pretty sure he approved of it...
Interesting that Steve was on both - Steves solo is excellent on the Wyatt version, but I like that Elvis features Steve more throughout all of the song. Great song no matter the version.
Whenever discussing the Falklands I urge you all to check out New Model Army - Spirit of the Falklands , which deals with the reasons and emotions regarding this war and it’s beginnings and legacy .. C n C can I ask you to add this to your list please ? The album version , not a live version please ?
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Yep. Go for it. No Hosenscheissers here.
@@Starburst_Candy no mucky pups ? 🤔
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@@jaymacgee_A_Bawbag_Blethering 💩
Both versions are good, but I find Elvis's phrasing, while simpler, seemed to fit easier. And Robert's voice just wobbles a bit, so at times sounds a little out of phase and tune. But both certainly good.
Just to confuse matters, there's also a version by Suede: ua-cam.com/video/cdDXJLaXHuE/v-deo.htmlsi=KSGRgu-i6_lvKuel
Costello for me, but it's such a dreary song.
Prefer Elvis's vocals.
It wasn't a great time as any time you said anything aboot what was happening then you did run the risk of getting a Kicking. There was a Big Push on being Pro Britain Pro British Forces and it sucked.
Imagine "being Pro British and Pro British Forces", eh......Much better to be Anti your own country, and Anti your own Forces?? What a jerk...
SPK , my original comment to this Troll was removed but I’m redoing it ..
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@@vicbrit1107we don’t do personal abuse in here , this is your very FIRST comment on your channel and it’s NOT welcome .. and neither are you !
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If you want to see big pro war rallies look at documentaries on Argentina at the time. Then you'll see a people manipulated even into a frenzy. Nearly all British people never wanted a war, but letting someone just invade and take somewhere would not have been an option for any British government.
@@joebloggs396 I don’t really want to see pro war stuff Joe , but the 2nd part of your comment I 💯 agree with . IMHO the Argentinian junta AND Thatcher have blood on their hands .. but having said that , I agree wholeheartedly, irrespective of the mood in the country to begin with , once the task force had set sail it was necessary and required to support our brave forces .
Though it should never have come to that in the first place , I’d never heard of the Falklands before the Argentinians invaded tbh .
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