I got the impression that Martin knows about a specific contract that Simon has been involved in with 28 days and maybe didn’t pay in the time. Weird for MO to linger on that point for so long and also for it to aggregate SJ so much.
That is silly, that means a sacked manager can only get paid out for 12 months. No Manager worth something signs a 12 months contract, they want golden parachute
Missing the point. The issue is whether Southampton were still a premier league club at the time or not.. they say no, Swansea say yes. The courts will decide upon that I guess.
That's not the issue. Swansea are suing Russell Martin, not Southampton. Martin walked away from a contract. Martin's counter argument is that he was constructively dismissed because he was undermined by Swansea's owners because they didn't sign anyone in the January transfer window.
None of them know what the contract says - as stated by Simon. The directors of the club are required to act in its best interests which in this case is apparently to sue the departed manager for breach of contract. If Russell Martin, or more likely his advisors/agent, was on the ball he will have sought and secured an indemnity from his new club against just such a situation arising - covering all legal costs and any judgement arising. That would appear to be reasonable as the new club are apparently aiming to benefit from their changed league circumstances. Wording and timing are likely to be key issues if and when this comes to court.
Martin O'Neil was just getting in the way. He should butt out and let Jordan explain things. Jim asked "how does this end" and Martin took i t on a bit of a ramble. The Swansea v southampton issue is whether Southampton were a Premier league team or not. They probably contacted Martin before they were in the Championship.
Martin O'Neill was sacked by N.Forest with 13 months left on his contract - he got paid for that time despite not doing a single bit of the work. It's obvious which side he sits on because as Simon points out, it's the only industry where failure still gets you paid and it's madness.
It’s an interesting thought isn’t it… speaking as a forest fan we’ve seen much more than our fair share of managers coming and going but what we’ve also seen is player after player signed that has never even put on our shirt. Who would be to blame for that? We’ve had instances of players turning up that the manager has never seen before and didn’t know had been signed. Strange to see that an owner would then hold a manager responsible for not getting a team achieving what they expect them to when not providing the players the manager would expect to have. It’s ok saying “the manager gets to fail and gets a big pay day for it” but when does an owner understand that they are accountable for the budget they have and the players they buy? It’s like putting a league 2 team in the prem then not buying any players and sacking the manager because the teams not winning. Interesting to see a former owners perspective (and in my opinion I would have to argue delusion) here.
As a Swans fan I always backed Martin but can understand why he'd have wanted to leave. A lot of fans wanted him out and our new owners didn't back him. Fully understand if he's bitter, and he's done well at Southampton, but if Swansea are owed compensation then pay out. We need every pound we can get
In reality most departing managers would rather take, say, 75% cash upfront of a sum that otherwise would be drip fed over 24 months. Plus they have duties to mitigate their losses anyway, so once they get another job their losses are mitigated and their rights to compensation after often reduced.
Simon is very highly strung in these circumstances/subjects isn't he. Martin is just trying to ask a hypothetical and Simon is leaping on it like he's accusing him on something. 😂
Hey Simon. Here’s a thought mate. Rather than focussing on preparing another long list of sixteen syllable words to shoehorn into a sentence, how about actually listening to Martins point, and answering that! Just a thought 🤷♂️
These managers want to treat managership in the same way as they treated playing when they were players. Players can treat clubs so badly. The club normally has to clean up their messes when they move on without recourse. Not the same for managers, or it shouldn't be. All power to Swansea.
As a Swans fan, I wasn't aware this was still ongoing. I thought it had been resolved behind the scenes. But from what I know is that Southampton put in an offer for Martin while they were still in the prem, but then just announced Martin joined when they were in the championship after June I think it was officially, so it's a different compensation package. A lower one than they'd first established. I don't get why that's even in dispute why Southampton wouldn't have to pay the premier league rate for it seeing the offer was put forward to him then. But surprised to see that Swansea must see that Martin materialized his own move in a way and should be held accountable as well.
The bill was always Martin's in my opinion. When these things happen the destination club usually covers the bill for the manager. Swansea had a contract with Martin not Southampton. It is Russ's responsibility. Just as in the case Jordan discussed.
RM left by mutual consent. You can't say yes, you can go, we wish you well and then sue for damages later. Swansea wanted him out of the door because he never took them up or made the playoffs. Now they realise he needed more time and investment they're not happy. Also, contracts aren't as simple as SJ says. RM might have had in his contract that he would be given X amount to invest and was never given it, in which case they broke the contract. Unless SJ was privy tho the contract, he shouldn't comment or, at minimum, look at all the different angles. SJ is an ex owner and is bitter about paying compo.
Simon is a piece of work. He refused to listen to Martin, or to explore hypothetical scenarios. He didn't need to keep reiterating that a contract is a contract, and the fact that he views and expresses that all managers are just a small cog in a system is uncomfortable at best. Yes football managers get paid a lot, and have the protection of lengthy contracts, but he should at least try to come across as personal and understanding!
Because Simon had provided a basic explanation of how a contract works and apparently Martin couldn't understand and/or grasp it, thereby requiring Simon to repeat again, and again, and again the same basic concept.
Simon's saying in the contract he cant sackmanagers without paying out the entirety of the contract if the manager doesnt achieve targetets as an example bottom 3 sacked, poor performace . Not reaching the agreed position in league. GTFO.
Why is Jim on this show?! He offers absolutely nothing! Do they have a washed-up alco quota they have to fill?! It's the only logical explanation I can think of 🙄
You still don't have to tolerate failure, even if you've failed at something yourself. Holding people to high standards is a common trait in all successful people.
It's not a criminal case, it's a civil case. There's no investigation as such. In addition to this, the points raised were purposely generic and hypothetical because the full facts weren't present for debate.
Martin o’Neil is the most sinfully boring pundit I’ve ever heard. Constantly mumbling and muttering and tripping over his words. Get him off the old git
Why is SJ so defensive? The guy is walking contradiction, he is part of the Club owners association where he will always defend club owners like he does when it comes the Glazers etc. but he will never admit any club owners are better than him despite his failures at Crystal Palace.
![САНАТОРИЙ для беглых ДИКТАТОРОВ. Асада подселили к Януковичу 😁 [Пародия]](/img/n.gif)
Simon is just brilliant. Clearly he knows his stuff, has been frustrated by the system and is the best thing on Talk Sport
Martin it's Monday.. Simon had been desperate for a fight all weekend 😂
7:15 Martin with a slight dig at Simon😂
I don't understand why Simon was having a go at Martin o Neil for 😂😂
I know right. 😅 He gets very defensive/aggressive when it comes to owner conversations.
because MO is one of those guys that uses fifty words to ask a question when ten would be suffice
Because O’Neil was being sarcastic towards him in a veiled way
@paulmelvin8427 you are a real man paul
@@ReggieDunlop100 Celtic fan , listened to O,neil for years , he is one of those guys that thinks he is a lot more clever than he is
Simon absolutely mugging Martin off today. Good work.
I got the impression that Martin knows about a specific contract that Simon has been involved in with 28 days and maybe didn’t pay in the time. Weird for MO to linger on that point for so long and also for it to aggregate SJ so much.
Simon loves the Swans 🦢🦢🦢
And so he should, amazing club.
Tbf though isn't he always going to side with the clubs and owners in these situations?
@mrchico2621 he doesn't. I've heard him lay in to clubs and owners several times.
Thank you Simon!!! Well said.....
Long term contracts are pointless nowadays. You might as well do it on a season by season basis.
That is silly, that means a sacked manager can only get paid out for 12 months.
No Manager worth something signs a 12 months contract, they want golden parachute
I get the feeling Martin knows an instance where Simon broke the payment terms, he might aswell have winked at him during this exchange.
Missing the point. The issue is whether Southampton were still a premier league club at the time or not.. they say no, Swansea say yes. The courts will decide upon that I guess.
That's not the issue. Swansea are suing Russell Martin, not Southampton. Martin walked away from a contract. Martin's counter argument is that he was constructively dismissed because he was undermined by Swansea's owners because they didn't sign anyone in the January transfer window.
I love it when non lawyers try to talk about legal issues.
Jim White being a bit smug,also I don’t understand Martins point either,also Simon is 100% correct.
None of them know what the contract says - as stated by Simon. The directors of the club are required to act in its best interests which in this case is apparently to sue the departed manager for breach of contract. If Russell Martin, or more likely his advisors/agent, was on the ball he will have sought and secured an indemnity from his new club against just such a situation arising - covering all legal costs and any judgement arising. That would appear to be reasonable as the new club are apparently aiming to benefit from their changed league circumstances. Wording and timing are likely to be key issues if and when this comes to court.
Martin O'Neil was just getting in the way. He should butt out and let Jordan explain things. Jim asked "how does this end" and Martin took i t on a bit of a ramble. The Swansea v southampton issue is whether Southampton were a Premier league team or not. They probably contacted Martin before they were in the Championship.
Spot on Simon.
Martin O'Neill was sacked by N.Forest with 13 months left on his contract - he got paid for that time despite not doing a single bit of the work. It's obvious which side he sits on because as Simon points out, it's the only industry where failure still gets you paid and it's madness.
you do know how a contract works right? multi year fixed contracts are signed by both club and manager so why pick on only the manager
Managers work 16 hours a day.
So no its not like a normal job.
Most CEO of big tersms get well paid for failure. The Thames Water chief for one.
O'Neill didn't fail at Forest. Those owners have sacked numerous managers, they seem to change their minds when the wind changes.
No that a contract. I worked for a big company in Scotland and was paid off got paid the rest of my contract and holidays
Was like 16months
Martin winding Simon up here I love it 😂
It’s an interesting thought isn’t it… speaking as a forest fan we’ve seen much more than our fair share of managers coming and going but what we’ve also seen is player after player signed that has never even put on our shirt. Who would be to blame for that? We’ve had instances of players turning up that the manager has never seen before and didn’t know had been signed. Strange to see that an owner would then hold a manager responsible for not getting a team achieving what they expect them to when not providing the players the manager would expect to have. It’s ok saying “the manager gets to fail and gets a big pay day for it” but when does an owner understand that they are accountable for the budget they have and the players they buy? It’s like putting a league 2 team in the prem then not buying any players and sacking the manager because the teams not winning. Interesting to see a former owners perspective (and in my opinion I would have to argue delusion) here.
As a Swans fan I always backed Martin but can understand why he'd have wanted to leave. A lot of fans wanted him out and our new owners didn't back him. Fully understand if he's bitter, and he's done well at Southampton, but if Swansea are owed compensation then pay out. We need every pound we can get
You completely missed the point.
@@d.jparer5184 fair enough
In reality most departing managers would rather take, say, 75% cash upfront of a sum that otherwise would be drip fed over 24 months. Plus they have duties to mitigate their losses anyway, so once they get another job their losses are mitigated and their rights to compensation after often reduced.
Simon’s taken a verbal bashing all weekend off his wife, now he’s taking out on Martin. 🙄
I used to love Martin O'Neil, but does he ever offer an opinion??? Literally never sticks his neck on the line.
The only 2 x football books worth reading - 'Done Deal' by Daniel Geey and 'Be careful what you wish for' by Simon Jordan.
You know the content is going to be good when Jim is just sat there grinning like a cheshire cat knowing full well somethings about to go off.
Simon is very highly strung in these circumstances/subjects isn't he. Martin is just trying to ask a hypothetical and Simon is leaping on it like he's accusing him on something. 😂
You going to lay into Jason Willcox for breaking his contract with us at Southampton, too?!!
Hey Simon. Here’s a thought mate. Rather than focussing on preparing another long list of sixteen syllable words to shoehorn into a sentence, how about actually listening to Martins point, and answering that! Just a thought 🤷♂️
These managers want to treat managership in the same way as they treated playing when they were players.
Players can treat clubs so badly. The club normally has to clean up their messes when they move on without recourse. Not the same for managers, or it shouldn't be.
All power to Swansea.
Water Company Executives, another industry where you get paid AND bonuses for failure. Banking. Politics. Do you want more, Simon?
Assume there’s also a notice period if you want to get out of a contract? Eg. 4 weeks or 12 weeks
Surely the notice period is the length of the contract unless the manager is sacked or the compensation is paid off by a new club.
Russell Martin should be sued for crimes against football.
As a Swans fan, I wasn't aware this was still ongoing. I thought it had been resolved behind the scenes. But from what I know is that Southampton put in an offer for Martin while they were still in the prem, but then just announced Martin joined when they were in the championship after June I think it was officially, so it's a different compensation package. A lower one than they'd first established. I don't get why that's even in dispute why Southampton wouldn't have to pay the premier league rate for it seeing the offer was put forward to him then. But surprised to see that Swansea must see that Martin materialized his own move in a way and should be held accountable as well.
The bill was always Martin's in my opinion. When these things happen the destination club usually covers the bill for the manager. Swansea had a contract with Martin not Southampton. It is Russ's responsibility. Just as in the case Jordan discussed.
Ask Martin the time and it’ll be tomorrow before he finally tells you
RM left by mutual consent. You can't say yes, you can go, we wish you well and then sue for damages later. Swansea wanted him out of the door because he never took them up or made the playoffs. Now they realise he needed more time and investment they're not happy. Also, contracts aren't as simple as SJ says. RM might have had in his contract that he would be given X amount to invest and was never given it, in which case they broke the contract. Unless SJ was privy tho the contract, he shouldn't comment or, at minimum, look at all the different angles. SJ is an ex owner and is bitter about paying compo.
Simon is a piece of work. He refused to listen to Martin, or to explore hypothetical scenarios. He didn't need to keep reiterating that a contract is a contract, and the fact that he views and expresses that all managers are just a small cog in a system is uncomfortable at best. Yes football managers get paid a lot, and have the protection of lengthy contracts, but he should at least try to come across as personal and understanding!
Yes he does because Martin couldn't apparently grasp the response he provided.
Sir Simon = Top LAD Proper Clobber 💯 Facts
Simon didn’t have his cheerios this morning, extra grumpy 😅
That was cheeky fun 😊
02:10 er, that's exactly how the real (non-football) world works. You do move as soon as something better comes along 😕
Why was Simon being angry and quite short with Martin ? The man was trying to ask questions to make a legitimate point. Calm down Simon ffs 😂😂
Because Simon had provided a basic explanation of how a contract works and apparently Martin couldn't understand and/or grasp it, thereby requiring Simon to repeat again, and again, and again the same basic concept.
Simon's saying in the contract he cant sackmanagers without paying out the entirety of the contract if the manager doesnt achieve targetets as an example bottom 3 sacked, poor performace . Not reaching the agreed position in league. GTFO.
Why is Jim on this show?!
He offers absolutely nothing!
Do they have a washed-up alco quota they have to fill?! It's the only logical explanation I can think of 🙄
I'm not a fan but he's just the presenter and does a good job in poking SJ to get the best out of him
O Neil doesnt know what he's talking about
Simon. Settle lol
Time to grow up. No wonder this Country is in the mire with goons like this lot about.
Wtf is Martin waffling about 😭🙈
Simon Jordan: "I don't tolerate failure" proceeds to fail as a football chairman
You still don't have to tolerate failure, even if you've failed at something yourself. Holding people to high standards is a common trait in all successful people.
Jesus Christ give the man a chance to speak ffs
What happened to you can’t comment on an ongoing investigation?
It's not a criminal case, it's a civil case. There's no investigation as such. In addition to this, the points raised were purposely generic and hypothetical because the full facts weren't present for debate.
The day before he left MK Dons to go to Swansea he was telling supporters he wasnt going
The man is known as The Snake here.
A liar and a fraud
There are plenty of people in Swansea who still consider him an above the board, almost saintly figure.
Weirdos.
Simon is very thin skinned isn’t he
Martin o’Neil is the most sinfully boring pundit I’ve ever heard. Constantly mumbling and muttering and tripping over his words. Get him off the old git
Tbf Jordan wouldn’t let him speak
Martin sounds like JOE BIDEN. He would have been better of keeping quiet.
Why is SJ so defensive? The guy is walking contradiction, he is part of the Club owners association where he will always defend club owners like he does when it comes the Glazers etc. but he will never admit any club owners are better than him despite his failures at Crystal Palace.
😊
I get that he broke the contract but everything he did for us🥲🥲
I wouldn’t have blamed him Swansea’s owners were terrible and didn’t give him what was promised in January