I started learning to play guitar in 1980 with the sole purpose of doing it for God. Played in night church (special music) during the 80s; played in a band doing Christian rock & roll in the early 90s. I was part of the church's worship team when worship teams were getting popular beginning in 1996. We played on Sunday mornings with a full band of drums, bass, piano, & several singers with 200-250 in attendance on Sunday mornings. But through the years a number of issues built up, and it became time to go elsewhere. After some church shopping, we discerned that we were called to a small, rural church. Our worship team consists of a pianist, a vocalist, and I'm again the utility player on guitar, organ, and hand percussion for a congregation of about 40 on Sunday mornings. We like it here much better. I have the freedom to play guitar, organ, or whatever instrument I determine will make the music better. In all this time, I have never accepted a dime for playing music. With the band, we traveled well outside the local area and never charged money or accepted money when a church or group would offer it. Music is what I do because I want to...to serve Him with the talent and ability He has given me.
Oh, I couldn’t play at a church with false prophets and manipulation coming from the pulpit…. My personal rule is that I’m not playing in a church unless I can also benefit from the teaching and I feel comfortable inviting people. After watching this video, I feel blessed that I have worked in churches with TRUE men of God that I love and respect.
I thank God for my Pastor. He’s the opposite of these troubles. He makes it known how much he appreciates me. He absolutely believes in taking care of his musicians with no manipulation.
Perfect perfect. Perfect timing. God did speak to my heart through you Minister Jamal. About 80% of what you said is what I'm going through. I'll continue to pray and seek God's direction. Bless you 🙏🏼
My lawd, you are exactly correct. God has already spoken this in mine and im sure in others spirit. God really used you in this video because everything you said is spot on! Thank you for obeying and being the confirmation I needed and maybe others also. God Bless
The images in the background were spot on as this video is 100% accurate for the many of us who’ve been there. The point you made about HR also resonated bc sometimes in certain churches, musicians can feel like there is no where to turn.. I haven’t played keyboard/organ for a church since 2018…Most of the reasons you gave for needing to leave are related to why I have moved on from playing for churches. And, yes I still attend church each Sunday, but now I’m at a different point in life. Let’s keep praying for musicians and pastors and this video is much needed. Great job brother.
Man of God, Thank you for this video. I was once a musician in a church then left the worship team moved to tech, responsible for their streaming. I was pretty much a "one man band" at this point to say I was exhausted and underpaid is an understatement. I understand that the lead/head pastor of a church big or small also has to juggle a lot and wear many hats, my situation was a bit different from what you described where what funds I was receiving didn't even cover my gas for the month. needless to say after a lot of other stemming issues I had to leave. I felt guilty for doing so and after watching this video I feel that The Lord is directing me to a better spiritual home. May God bless you for what the Holy Spirit commanded you to say. It was the most informative 10 minutes and 5 seconds I have received. Peace and Blessings.
This is so encouraging. There are times when church can become a toxic environment and to breathe some fresh air, one has to leave. My replacement on the keyboard is back, he left last year. God is good and sometimes needs to shift us to an assembly where we can be better used for His glory. Keep up the good work. There is a place when "speaking the truth in love" is the best option.
I love this! This wisdom is needed and even some of us old heads that know what to do still struggle with leaving. I just went through this and the flip side of this conversation is that many times, God isn't only speaking to you. Many of us would be surprised that God is either leading us ahead of a change at the church that will blindside you and leave you without resources or He's coordinating the change at the church and the pastor may already be aware of it. When God speaks, it's best to listen. Take everything off the table (tenure, experience, influence, etc.) and just follow His lead. It's always for your best, in the end!
Bless you for this big bro. I’ve been in this same situation for years and this year I prayed for the Holy Spirit to help me and He did. I’ve finally left and trust me there’s been such peace of mind and relief I’ve never felt in my life . I was prophesied to that I was gonna die and all that shit…believe me served God well and be in line with the word of God you’re good bro. I’ll advise any musician going through hard times in church, bro gather the courage and leave. Make sure to clear your back tho but regardless there will always be people who will have issues with you even though you’ve cleared your back and all that. Move on and grow. Learn new ways of making money with music.
Very admirable Sir of you talking about this👏👏. it so happened for a long time that I was the only keyboardist around willing to play in any church in our community, and genuinely for free (applause everyone!!). Didnt need the money until dire circumstances (loss of work, marriage breakdown ,immigration woes,etc) soon found me dependent largely on freelancing. Tried to be part of a certain church, committed to playing for them for over 4 years for a weekly stipend (their own offer), but at key moments felt like only a hired hand, replacable, being used only when no option existed : indeed feeling like mere property - "You are obliged to play exclusively for us and no one else", and as often told "well we pay you" (@06:45 true) even when the pay couldnt go anywhere during an exceptional tough time. Among many other things that were decidely unchristian , in retrospect. I finally left the church when given an ultimatum, to play on one New Year's Day, even when I'd notified I needed the day off for spending privately with my own long-suffering family. I was "dismissed" publically in church the next Sunday, in my absence. Of course the devil has pervaded churches, I long forgave/never held any grudges as anyone including Pastors make mistakes under tthe enemy's influence. Just be aware when it is not going straight and leave, the Lord will always use you elsewhere. Rightly put: "let those who have ears... understanding. hear"
❤❤❤❤ Thank you sir. Been there done this!! Thank you for confirmation that I did the right thing!!! So, grateful for you!!! I have been able to move on and use my talent in other ways and my growth is humbling. Guess what? Me and Jesus are having a goodt time!!!
I went through some of the things you talked about in this video. I was playing Bass at a Church where the Pastor was not right , I was not getting anything from his preaching + other drama was happening. I stopped going to that Church and found another one and I feel way better and the Word is really preached where I go now. I just subscribed to your channel.
This video came on time for me. Cause I’ve decided recently to leave my family church. My family don’t want to accept it or agree with it, But I recently became church hurt, So my mind is made up and I will find another church that God lays on my heart to be at.
Man, I liked, subscribed, and shared all off this one video!!! Thanks man! I made my exodus to a better situation but thank you for helping others and confirming for me because we don't have a voice like this speaking on our behalf
I HAVE BEEN THERE,AT THAT CHURCH 20YRS.PASTOR ALL OVER THE NEWS USA WIDE,STAYED A WHOLE YEAR AFTER, THEN ,I LEFT,I AM GREATFUL,LISTENING TO APOSTLE GINO JENNINGS ON UA-cam AND LEARNING MORE,IN FEW MONTHS,THEN AT A CHURCH 20YRS.❤
I am so glad you brought that up. I played for mother Roswell since I was 19 years old. I started off playing bass guitar then converted to playing keyboards Oregon and piano. I never got paid because I was learning. She died when she was 96 years old, I ended up getting options of playing a different churches. I played a New Bread Ministry got offered to play at his tabernacle and other various churches my pastor put this inside of me mother Braswell just live it when I start seeing pastors bending mother Braswell was like a pillar. She did not bend later on. I went to go play for Jerusalem with a little old lady name, Pastor Wells, she was like mother Braswell and it wasn’t the check is about praise and worshiping the Lord I got paid every single week while I was at new Jerusalem, but the other churches I played for I would get paid one week skip two payments. I wouldn’t say a word and I felt the pastor in those particular churches was playing games with me. I even lowered my payment just as long as you give me gas money to get to church and back home that would be fine. I ended up going back to mother Wells church might not get paid that much but I put my money up every single week to save up for instruments that I enjoy for the other churches I would not ever go back to play with them no way too much of a headache.
I can relate to so much of this. I'm in a healthy situation now, but I've experienced much of what you spoke of before, and know of others that have. Membership makes it even more difficult (I think). I've never (regularly) played at a church that I wasn't a member of. So, more than money, being a faithful and supportive member kept me there longer than I should have been there.
I hear ya. The preacher is .. OCD .. does not pay me, but pays himself, makes critical, controlling comments to me in front of the congregation. I’ve been doing this for over 25 years and practice for hours every week. Some Christians and ministers can be so critical and unappreciative. (Maybe I said too much here, but I’m the only one left in the praise band, and am praying for direction.) A Christian counselor told me it’s ok if I leave.
@@coolramone You’re the only one left in the band??? Mannnn, sounds like it’s BEEN time to go!! What’s keeping you there, cause obviously it’s not the money???
Excellent video. I have had to do this a number of times. Sometimes it was for moral purposes. But God will provide if it comes down to my morals in Christ.
I haven’t played for a church in a full time setting since Covid, but I still play services on occasion, As a person who grew up in church and experienced just about everything mentioned here, I decided to only playing a Sunday service as a fill in (ONLY). I’m stress free from all of the church musician pressure, and I’ve made sharpening my skills as a musician my perspective instead of practicing only for a Sunday service and have grown tremendously, being that I’ve learned to love what I do and not what “I have to do” to get a church check. My health is better, I exercise more, my spiritual life is better, and I still love God and the church. When I go to church most times now I rather sit in the audience lol, and if I do end up playing, no I won’t be available next week😂.
Damn, I haven’t played in church since Covid it was the perfect time to leave due to the church being in lockdown at the time. Can’t believe it’s been 4 years.
Same boat for me too - playing once a month is enough if I ever get to play - if I don’t play then I get to worship God anyway with the congregation so I’m good 🙂
I feel like you've been spying on my life 😂 I stepped down from playing full time at church on 12/31/19. Covid hit soon after and I realized that was the best decision to make for myself and my family. I play for enjoyment rather than obligation...it makes a big difference.
I didn’t grow up in church, it was later in my 20’s when I started playing in churches. There’s a saying in the rock and roll world back in my BC days, “Don’t quit your day job” From what I’ve seen in churches due to abuse, is that all musicians should just be volunteers unpaid and have a real good day job so one can leave without being guilt trip by leadership in churches I’ve seen all the good and bad in worship teams, it’s sad and it happens. Be GOD JESUS focus and His people second and be always on alert from words coming out from you and from others.
Amen to that. My Church is all volunteer on the worship team. I wouldn't take a dime for what I do there. The way I see it is that God had me in training all my life as an agnostic playing secular Jazz and Rock. After being born again, I feel like I'm finally putting the talent God gave me to it's proper use and I don't take that for granted for one second. What an absolute honor it is to help lead praise and worship. And on a musical perspective... I'm in my late 50's and the transition from progressive jazz and southern rock to old school gospel has been such a wonderful challenge. Gospel is just so musically rich!
In several local churches in my country Nigeria, instrumentalists are not paid for serving. They're required to be constantly available. My son started playing since 12 for a decade, and left for menial job in the city. Then he has few clothes, mending and doing laundry early Sunday mornings. Praise God, he advanced with online courses. Am setting up home studio nearing completion for him. The fruit of labor and rewards in the Lord's vineyard ripen with time.
Thank you, brother! Wish a had this encourage 14 years ago when I've made this decision. The part 2 Exodos is very important. Hope vid will come out soon and helps to thousands of people! Bless you!
I had this same experience a while back I learned that modern Churches glorifies music and diminish the Word, but we must be followers of Jesus first if the church doesn't have Jesus it's not a church!
I get it brother, but I understand WHY I play and WHO I'm playing for. Money is SECONDARY. I HAVE A GOOD JOB.When one leaves a church, you'd BEST PRAY AND ASK GOD FOR WISDOM TO MAKE YOUR DECISION......UNDERSTAND you wil give account for ANY decisions you make. Peace ✌️
I'm really lucky I'm at a great church with a great pastor but this brother is spot on I've been in terrible situation you see the behind the scenes things
No one gets paid to play in my little Church. And I don't think having to pay anyone to play should become necessary in a big Church. Our primary purpose is leading the people in the Church to praising and worshiping our Lord and Savior. That doesn't require near perfect performances. I play bass and do a reasonably good job and driving the rhythm and the underlying low tones but I'm no Sharay Reed. Same thing goes with our vocalists and the rest of our worship leaders. But I can tell you when I look out to our congregation, I see joy, strength, worship and praise and that's what it's all about. And none of my brothers and sisters at Church care that we're not spot on. In fact, they don't even notice when we make mistakes.
Not every church is like that though. Some are far more heartless than that. I got more trust from people in the outside world than I’ve gotten in church sometimes which is wild lol
I hear you, this professional church muso thing is kind of a new concept to me. It doesn't sit right with me somehow. I think they lost the plot mostly. We are not playing for anyone but unto the Lord. I often wonder what they are teaching in their Churches also; is it about money, status or what. Maybe there is a place for pros in some places I guess.
@@guitarandgospel How is a musician going to live if they don't get paid? They live under a bridge near the church? So no one that works at the church should get paid? Even janitors, landscapers, etc..?
The Lord will always give u the revelation on where and where not to be, when u are consistently in relationship with Him. To fast and pray regularly as a musician is something that should always be done to connect u to the right church home, and those that are moving not by might nor power, but only by God's Spirit. It is a gift to be from God to be a musician in the body of Christ. I pray that all of u will seek God daily as to who He has called u to be as a leader in worship to His people and to be led of Him and not of the flesh in any manner. It's time to be all in, and keep seeking Christ.
Awesome video. Been in so many situations. These are great discussions. Would love to hear your thoughts on choir members claiming to be dedicated and make excuses for everything. Especially when you give songs in advance and they don’t take time learn them. Then wonder why we sing the same songs.
Amen brother you’re 100% right I agree I heard it many times if you leave this church, you’re not covered by our grace, you’re under a curse but that is a liar because my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ of Nazareth paid it all on the cross of Calvary, when he said it is finished hallelujah… JESUS IS LORD
The expression that pastors and leaders hide behind when they don't want to listen or change is "No matter what church you go to, there will be problems." My response is "All churches may have problems, but they don't all handle them the same way." When things are swept under the rug for optics, problems are ignored, or there is no integrity, it's time to go. Jeremiah called out corruption at all levels (6:13). God isn't looking for perfection; he's looking for integrity.
Appreciate this video brother because any musician who clicked on this link...know it's time to leave. I will add a few things to this video for when a musician should leave a church and they are: 1. When a musician is constantly being disrespected by the Pastor, leaders and members of the praise team 2. When a musician has been at the church for 1 year or more and doesn't receive public recognition or appreciation by the Pastor, music ministry or church members for their contribution and dedication. 3. When you've been at a church for more than 1 year and church members ask you your name. 4. When musician is underpaid or stuck at the same salary for years and never receives a pay increase.
I support this message but many labor in the church working longing hours during the week but never see a dime. Why is the church musician exalted with pay but not others faithfully laboring? Isn't this a respecter of persons?
Been playing without pay for almost 3 years. It’s sometimes hard knowing that you could get compensation for your skills. Really at the crossroads at the moment.
On time word. Naysayers all around but God is in this. It’s never too late for a local church to change. Remember, you don’t pick your church you pick your pastor. Don’t let fear stop your moving as Jesus (the great Shepherd) leads you to. Be free! Plan your way out. If you have to Uber or Lyft, set it all up, God will provide. You need to be free from toxicity. See Galatians 5:1 (NIV).
When leaving, never put in an advance notice. Get your last check, quit on the spot and never go back. At one church, I put in an advance notice for leaving at the end of the month. They let me go the following Sunday. That advance notice gave them time to find my replacement within a week. They replaced me before my my term was up and I was out of a few checks for the remaining of the month.
Yeah churches will do you dirty no matter how much you’ve sewn into them. I’m glad you posted this because I was going to let them know but now I’m not sure if I want to do that…
I never gave churches an advance notice and always left when I needed to. The first time I gave a church an advance notice, they were able to take immediate action looking for my replacement and found it.
@sebastianchristopher9461 that's the point. The world 🌎 DOES NOT revolve around you. Too much entitlement in musicians. Remember GOD gave you the gift brother 🙏
@@frederickweeksjr.1189 That’s not always how it happens though. Churches will take advantage of your gift and not care about you at all. They’ll also praise musicians who have put in far less effort. Most of us aren’t arrogant we’re just underappreciated or even used
Ask the Pastor to write you a "to whom it may concern" referral letter acknowledging your service at the Church before any mention of leaving. This letter or the refusal to provide such will confirm whether you need to go.
Man I’ve given so much of my literal blood, sweat and tears just to go through divorce and the same church basically shun me and my wife. I was suicidal and couldn’t find a place of refuge. Pastors just kept pimping my gift. When I needed to be surrounded by those that said they love me and I’ve given my gift “my love” back to God in efforts to encourage his saints, they spiritual spit on me. It’s crazy because I wouldn’t even have some of the connections to some of the leaders of I wasn’t a musician. I feel bad for the average Christain that comes to church and has no specific gift to serve with, people probably don’t even know they left.
No lies told! When you get that 2nd hot bad check it’s time to go. Jamal is 💯 correct. 20 years of foolishness unfortunately. COVD-19 was my last year of playing for black churches.
What Christians forget is that you got to test the spirit by the spirit (what's written in the bible). I must say this video is for everyone that loves the truth....the present day church is being shaken to its core because church is not what Jesus meant for it to be....its all performance, money, sex, and in some cases smoking weed before the sermon come forth...i am a musician for 36 years, a Minister, book writer, amoung other things...but i never sort recognition and God is blessing me tremendously, i said that to say "GO BACK TO YOUR FIRST LOVE, WHEN YOU FIRST MET THE SAVIOR ," JESUS CHRIST"
My situation is a little different, at my church we have the truth of the word and the doctrine that is said is biblical, but we severely lack in the music and there is absolutely zero effort to make a better sounding offering. I personally feel ive hit a plateau musically and I don’t feel like there’s any more room for improvement in my ministry and it also effects my spiritual life. If any of you have felt with this or anything similar words of wisdom would be appreciated 😪
Wow. This is so alien to me! I guess our church culture is so different. No one gets paid. I play for the church I grew up in. I cannot even imagine a church pastor almost blackmailing someone to say. Is that a consequence of getting paid like it’s your job? It’s like being stuck in the wrong job but you can’t leave because it’s family!
I grew up leading worship and had up until about a year ago. It's no longer about Jesus. it's about the business, the best product. I had someone tell me, "of course we want you on staff! You're a tall, white guy, who is gifted!" I quit playing in the church cause of these things.
Wow,this came at the right time. Just had a meeting with my pastor and his wife....and she was running the whole meeting. She is a bitter old lady that does not like me. Im done.
The issue with mine is that my wife and I feel forgotten about and left out. It seems like I’m just seen as the keys player and not as an actual member. When I came to the church I was looking for an actual church not just somewhere to play. This church just happened to need a keys player. The other musicians are not members and play at other churches so they’re at my church once a month at best. It’s frustrating and I’m about ready to move on from it.
A couple of things: 1) This is a Word not only for musicians, but also those suffering from being self-centered. People can make things about themselves when it is not. 2) Whoever is going through this now, please leave. The money might be good, but it is not worth your well being or soul. Im praying for you.
Alotta musicians may need to find regular jobs so they’re not forced to play for churches they don’t like. When I first started playing at this church, I didn’t really need the money, but, I’m now at a place where I need it, and I don’t like that I do.
Yeah it depends if the church is thankful to have you as well. I would not play for a church for free because when you do they act like you’re good and SHOULD be paid, and when they start paying you they act like you should make no mistakes because you’re getting paid 😂 🤦🏾♂️
Wtw!!! What about doing a work for the Lord … getting a check ? Smh can’t believe you said that … what happened to going to church for church and praising God 🤔💭
Even if you're not a musician, this is a word for ANYONE who feels like their church is no longer a hospital for sinners. Churches like what brother Jamal is speaking on here is why there's a decline in not only church attendance, but salvation within ANY of the Abrahamic religions, let alone the body of Christ (notice I didn't say Christianity because the loudest voices in Christianity are not reflective of what Christ wanted for us, but I digress).
Your statement implies there can be salvation within other "Abrahamic religions" aside from Christianity.. Your statement exposes some cracks that speak to the need for reevaluation of your doctrine
I don’t understand this getting paid. I started playing drums at 13 and I have been playing in church since I was about 15 and I’m almost 39. I can’t tell you how many churches I’ve seen pay musicians who aren’t even Christians. It is a dangerously slippery slope. I’ll never understand getting paid to lead people in worship when you aren’t the leader…
Why does this sound like 1 Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is the root of all of evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows". While this is excellent advice. It is sad though that is even necessary to say, if there is sinful behaviour, false teaching/gospels, manipulation and you stay because of the money... then God is not your God, money is. I think the focus on paying musicians has created a almost mercenary attitude in some musicians and a boss/employee pastor rather than servant leadership - washing feet.
I would venture to say this could be for any position in the church. It might be magnified more on the musician side, but I've seen it across the board. Telling someone they are sacrificing their child to the devil by letting them play baseball (that occasionally might play on a Sunday) is a terrible thing and is not biblical.
I started learning to play guitar in 1980 with the sole purpose of doing it for God. Played in night church (special music) during the 80s; played in a band doing Christian rock & roll in the early 90s. I was part of the church's worship team when worship teams were getting popular beginning in 1996. We played on Sunday mornings with a full band of drums, bass, piano, & several singers with 200-250 in attendance on Sunday mornings.
But through the years a number of issues built up, and it became time to go elsewhere. After some church shopping, we discerned that we were called to a small, rural church. Our worship team consists of a pianist, a vocalist, and I'm again the utility player on guitar, organ, and hand percussion for a congregation of about 40 on Sunday mornings. We like it here much better.
I have the freedom to play guitar, organ, or whatever instrument I determine will make the music better.
In all this time, I have never accepted a dime for playing music. With the band, we traveled well outside the local area and never charged money or accepted money when a church or group would offer it. Music is what I do because I want to...to serve Him with the talent and ability He has given me.
I've been playing for free at church for almost 25 years. There's freedom in not getting paid, but just giving your gifts to the LORD.
You are Appreciated Bro.Thank You
Facts..
I’ve always been playing for the lord for free but not people.
Good for you. That isn’t for everyone.
@@heyheyhey40 I wasn't speaking for everyone.
Oh, I couldn’t play at a church with false prophets and manipulation coming from the pulpit…. My personal rule is that I’m not playing in a church unless I can also benefit from the teaching and I feel comfortable inviting people.
After watching this video, I feel blessed that I have worked in churches with TRUE men of God that I love and respect.
I thank God for my Pastor. He’s the opposite of these troubles. He makes it known how much he appreciates me. He absolutely believes in taking care of his musicians with no manipulation.
Perfect perfect. Perfect timing. God did speak to my heart through you Minister Jamal. About 80% of what you said is what I'm going through. I'll continue to pray and seek God's direction. Bless you 🙏🏼
My lawd, you are exactly correct. God has already spoken this in mine and im sure in others spirit. God really used you in this video because everything you said is spot on! Thank you for obeying and being the confirmation I needed and maybe others also. God Bless
The images in the background were spot on as this video is 100% accurate for the many of us who’ve been there.
The point you made about HR also resonated bc sometimes in certain churches, musicians can feel like there is no where to turn.. I haven’t played keyboard/organ for a church since 2018…Most of the reasons you gave for needing to leave are related to why I have moved on from playing for churches. And, yes I still attend church each Sunday, but now I’m at a different point in life.
Let’s keep praying for musicians and pastors and this video is much needed. Great job brother.
Thanks so much!
Man of God, Thank you for this video. I was once a musician in a church then left the worship team moved to tech, responsible for their streaming. I was pretty much a "one man band" at this point to say I was exhausted and underpaid is an understatement. I understand that the lead/head pastor of a church big or small also has to juggle a lot and wear many hats, my situation was a bit different from what you described where what funds I was receiving didn't even cover my gas for the month. needless to say after a lot of other stemming issues I had to leave. I felt guilty for doing so and after watching this video I feel that The Lord is directing me to a better spiritual home. May God bless you for what the Holy Spirit commanded you to say. It was the most informative 10 minutes and 5 seconds I have received. Peace and Blessings.
This is so encouraging. There are times when church can become a toxic environment and to breathe some fresh air, one has to leave. My replacement on the keyboard is back, he left last year. God is good and sometimes needs to shift us to an assembly where we can be better used for His glory. Keep up the good work. There is a place when "speaking the truth in love" is the best option.
So powerful and a real message! Thank you my brother! I really needed this video..there are times I feel drained and wish I was more appreciated!
As someone who worked in many churches in production and trained church volunteers. This goes for them as well. Message is spot on.
I love this! This wisdom is needed and even some of us old heads that know what to do still struggle with leaving. I just went through this and the flip side of this conversation is that many times, God isn't only speaking to you. Many of us would be surprised that God is either leading us ahead of a change at the church that will blindside you and leave you without resources or He's coordinating the change at the church and the pastor may already be aware of it. When God speaks, it's best to listen. Take everything off the table (tenure, experience, influence, etc.) and just follow His lead. It's always for your best, in the end!
Wow this was really good! Yep...many times God is removing you BEFORE the issues occur. I will address this in my next video.
Bless you for this big bro. I’ve been in this same situation for years and this year I prayed for the Holy Spirit to help me and He did. I’ve finally left and trust me there’s been such peace of mind and relief I’ve never felt in my life . I was prophesied to that I was gonna die and all that shit…believe me served God well and be in line with the word of God you’re good bro. I’ll advise any musician going through hard times in church, bro gather the courage and leave. Make sure to clear your back tho but regardless there will always be people who will have issues with you even though you’ve cleared your back and all that. Move on and grow. Learn new ways of making money with music.
Very admirable Sir of you talking about this👏👏. it so happened for a long time that I was the only keyboardist around willing to play in any church in our community, and genuinely for free (applause everyone!!). Didnt need the money until dire circumstances (loss of work, marriage breakdown ,immigration woes,etc) soon found me dependent largely on freelancing. Tried to be part of a certain church, committed to playing for them for over 4 years for a weekly stipend (their own offer), but at key moments felt like only a hired hand, replacable, being used only when no option existed : indeed feeling like mere property - "You are obliged to play exclusively for us and no one else", and as often told "well we pay you" (@06:45 true) even when the pay couldnt go anywhere during an exceptional tough time. Among many other things that were decidely unchristian , in retrospect.
I finally left the church when given an ultimatum, to play on one New Year's Day, even when I'd notified I needed the day off for spending privately with my own long-suffering family. I was "dismissed" publically in church the next Sunday, in my absence.
Of course the devil has pervaded churches, I long forgave/never held any grudges as anyone including Pastors make mistakes under tthe enemy's influence. Just be aware when it is not going straight and leave, the Lord will always use you elsewhere. Rightly put: "let those who have ears... understanding. hear"
❤❤❤❤ Thank you sir. Been there done this!! Thank you for confirmation that I did the right thing!!! So, grateful for you!!! I have been able to move on and use my talent in other ways and my growth is humbling. Guess what? Me and Jesus are having a goodt time!!!
I went through some of the things you talked about in this video. I was playing Bass at a Church where the Pastor was not right , I was not getting anything from his preaching + other drama was happening. I stopped going to that Church and found another one and I feel way better and the Word is really preached where I go now. I just subscribed to your channel.
This video came on time for me. Cause I’ve decided recently to leave my family church. My family don’t want to accept it or agree with it, But I recently became church hurt, So my mind is made up and I will find another church that God lays on my heart to be at.
Man, I liked, subscribed, and shared all off this one video!!! Thanks man! I made my exodus to a better situation but thank you for helping others and confirming for me because we don't have a voice like this speaking on our behalf
Thanks so much for the support for real! Sometimes we don't know if these videos are actually helping!
I HAVE BEEN THERE,AT THAT CHURCH 20YRS.PASTOR ALL OVER THE NEWS USA WIDE,STAYED A WHOLE YEAR AFTER, THEN ,I LEFT,I AM GREATFUL,LISTENING TO APOSTLE GINO JENNINGS ON UA-cam AND LEARNING MORE,IN FEW MONTHS,THEN AT A CHURCH 20YRS.❤
I am so glad you brought that up. I played for mother Roswell since I was 19 years old. I started off playing bass guitar then converted to playing keyboards Oregon and piano. I never got paid because I was learning. She died when she was 96 years old, I ended up getting options of playing a different churches. I played a New Bread Ministry got offered to play at his tabernacle and other various churches my pastor put this inside of me mother Braswell just live it when I start seeing pastors bending mother Braswell was like a pillar. She did not bend later on. I went to go play for Jerusalem with a little old lady name, Pastor Wells, she was like mother Braswell and it wasn’t the check is about praise and worshiping the Lord I got paid every single week while I was at new Jerusalem, but the other churches I played for I would get paid one week skip two payments. I wouldn’t say a word and I felt the pastor in those particular churches was playing games with me. I even lowered my payment just as long as you give me gas money to get to church and back home that would be fine. I ended up going back to mother Wells church might not get paid that much but I put my money up every single week to save up for instruments that I enjoy for the other churches I would not ever go back to play with them no way too much of a headache.
I can relate to so much of this. I'm in a healthy situation now, but I've experienced much of what you spoke of before, and know of others that have.
Membership makes it even more difficult (I think). I've never (regularly) played at a church that I wasn't a member of. So, more than money, being a faithful and supportive member kept me there longer than I should have been there.
This is real talk. Thank You.
Man I needed this video. Been feeling drained at mine and with no urge to play anymore come Sunday mornings. I definitely need a few weeks off
…..or a new church, lol..
@@ALTheFreeMan yup praying on it lol
I hear ya. The preacher is .. OCD .. does not pay me, but pays himself, makes critical, controlling comments to me in front of the congregation. I’ve been doing this for over 25 years and practice for hours every week. Some Christians and ministers can be so critical and unappreciative. (Maybe I said too much here, but I’m the only one left in the praise band, and am praying for direction.) A Christian counselor told me it’s ok if I leave.
@@coolramone You’re the only one left in the band??? Mannnn, sounds like it’s BEEN time to go!! What’s keeping you there, cause obviously it’s not the money???
Excellent video. I have had to do this a number of times. Sometimes it was for moral purposes. But God will provide if it comes down to my morals in Christ.
Jamal I truly appreciate you and what I’m convinced the Holy Spirit has delivered this unto you.
Thank you so much
-Chuck Jefferson
I have experienced this my brother...and u hit it on the spot....
I haven’t played for a church in a full time setting since Covid, but I still play services on occasion, As a person who grew up in church and experienced just about everything mentioned here, I decided to only playing a Sunday service as a fill in (ONLY). I’m stress free from all of the church musician pressure, and I’ve made sharpening my skills as a musician my perspective instead of practicing only for a Sunday service and have grown tremendously, being that I’ve learned to love what I do and not what “I have to do” to get a church check. My health is better, I exercise more, my spiritual life is better, and I still love God and the church. When I go to church most times now I rather sit in the audience lol, and if I do end up playing, no I won’t be available next week😂.
Yo that's great man!
I’m in the same boat. I hated playing for churches and left the church for a while because of that. Now, I play when I want to play. It’s liberating.
Damn, I haven’t played in church since Covid it was the perfect time to leave due to the church being in lockdown at the time. Can’t believe it’s been 4 years.
Same boat for me too - playing once a month is enough if I ever get to play - if I don’t play then I get to worship God anyway with the congregation so I’m good 🙂
I feel like you've been spying on my life 😂 I stepped down from playing full time at church on 12/31/19. Covid hit soon after and I realized that was the best decision to make for myself and my family. I play for enjoyment rather than obligation...it makes a big difference.
Ill be retiring after 30 years of playing the organ in the church soon
Ballsy, I grew up playing in the 90s and you are spot on. Glad I left my toxic church, soooooo manipulative even when asking for a week off
I’ve been there it takes courage to move on. God will lead you
God bless you Jamal continue to help us church musicians ❤
I didn’t grow up in church, it was later in my 20’s when I started playing in churches. There’s a saying in the rock and roll world back in my BC days, “Don’t quit your day job”
From what I’ve seen in churches due to abuse, is that all musicians should just be volunteers unpaid and have a real good day job so one can leave without being guilt trip by leadership in churches I’ve seen all the good and bad in worship teams, it’s sad and it happens. Be GOD JESUS focus and His people second and be always on alert from words coming out from you and from others.
Amen to that. My Church is all volunteer on the worship team. I wouldn't take a dime for what I do there. The way I see it is that God had me in training all my life as an agnostic playing secular Jazz and Rock. After being born again, I feel like I'm finally putting the talent God gave me to it's proper use and I don't take that for granted for one second. What an absolute honor it is to help lead praise and worship. And on a musical perspective... I'm in my late 50's and the transition from progressive jazz and southern rock to old school gospel has been such a wonderful challenge. Gospel is just so musically rich!
In several local churches in my country Nigeria, instrumentalists are not paid for serving. They're required to be constantly available. My son started playing since 12 for a decade, and left for menial job in the city.
Then he has few clothes, mending and doing laundry early Sunday mornings.
Praise God, he advanced with online courses. Am setting up home studio nearing completion for him. The fruit of labor and rewards in the Lord's vineyard ripen with time.
Wow! This was one of the most true to life message I've heard in a long time.
Yep.
Thank you, brother! Wish a had this encourage 14 years ago when I've made this decision.
The part 2 Exodos is very important. Hope vid will come out soon and helps to thousands of people!
Bless you!
Wow... this is interesting.
Amen sir!! Amen!!
I had this same experience a while back I learned that modern Churches glorifies music and diminish the Word, but we must be followers of Jesus first if the church doesn't have Jesus it's not a church!
I get it brother, but I understand WHY I play and WHO I'm playing for. Money is SECONDARY. I HAVE A GOOD JOB.When one leaves a church, you'd BEST PRAY AND ASK GOD FOR WISDOM TO MAKE YOUR DECISION......UNDERSTAND you wil give account for ANY decisions you make. Peace ✌️
I'm really lucky I'm at a great church with a great pastor but this brother is spot on I've been in terrible situation you see the behind the scenes things
Man you said everything I'm dealing with to a "T"
No one gets paid to play in my little Church. And I don't think having to pay anyone to play should become necessary in a big Church. Our primary purpose is leading the people in the Church to praising and worshiping our Lord and Savior. That doesn't require near perfect performances. I play bass and do a reasonably good job and driving the rhythm and the underlying low tones but I'm no Sharay Reed. Same thing goes with our vocalists and the rest of our worship leaders. But I can tell you when I look out to our congregation, I see joy, strength, worship and praise and that's what it's all about. And none of my brothers and sisters at Church care that we're not spot on. In fact, they don't even notice when we make mistakes.
Not every church is like that though. Some are far more heartless than that. I got more trust from people in the outside world than I’ve gotten in church sometimes which is wild lol
I hear you, this professional church muso thing is kind of a new concept to me. It doesn't sit right with me somehow. I think they lost the plot mostly. We are not playing for anyone but unto the Lord. I often wonder what they are teaching in their Churches also; is it about money, status or what. Maybe there is a place for pros in some places I guess.
I played for a church for 12 years and didn’t get paid but I do believe we have to know our value so now I am compensated
@@guitarandgospeldoesn’t that logic apply to pastors as well that they shouldn’t be paid and not put a price on the Lords work?
@@guitarandgospel How is a musician going to live if they don't get paid? They live under a bridge near the church? So no one that works at the church should get paid? Even janitors, landscapers, etc..?
Amazing message Jamal, glad you shared this wisdom.
The Lord will always give u the revelation on where and where not to be, when u are consistently in relationship with Him. To fast and pray regularly as a musician is something that should always be done to connect u to the right church home, and those that are moving not by might nor power, but only by God's Spirit. It is a gift to be from God to be a musician in the body of Christ. I pray that all of u will seek God daily as to who He has called u to be as a leader in worship to His people and to be led of Him and not of the flesh in any manner. It's time to be all in, and keep seeking Christ.
Word preached and received!
Wise man
Man this is spot on anyone that hates on this is the problem definitely sharing
Jamal, This is Scott Fortune, checking in on this heartfelt powerful passionate and real message. Thanks for keeping this real.
Definitely right on time!!!
seconded
Good teaching been there
Awesome video. Been in so many situations. These are great discussions. Would love to hear your thoughts on choir members claiming to be dedicated and make excuses for everything. Especially when you give songs in advance and they don’t take time learn them. Then wonder why we sing the same songs.
Man this help me my brother thanks 🙏🏽
In this video I spoke to myself about everything except for the payment part I had just been serving without a reward
Amen brother you’re 100% right I agree I heard it many times if you leave this church, you’re not covered by our grace, you’re under a curse but that is a liar because my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ of Nazareth paid it all on the cross of Calvary, when he said it is finished hallelujah… JESUS IS LORD
this video came @ the perfect time.
Well said man! Well said!
If I could press thumbs up 10 more times.....Its like u speaking to me...U speaking facts bro!!!
Very good brother .So true .
Wow this is good
Man!!! This really hit for me…
The expression that pastors and leaders hide behind when they don't want to listen or change is "No matter what church you go to, there will be problems." My response is "All churches may have problems, but they don't all handle them the same way." When things are swept under the rug for optics, problems are ignored, or there is no integrity, it's time to go. Jeremiah called out corruption at all levels (6:13). God isn't looking for perfection; he's looking for integrity.
Yoooo!!! This was needed
Appreciate this video brother because any musician who clicked on this link...know it's time to leave. I will add a few things to this video for when a musician should leave a church and they are:
1. When a musician is constantly being disrespected by the Pastor, leaders and members of the praise team
2. When a musician has been at the church for 1 year or more and doesn't receive public recognition or appreciation by the Pastor, music ministry or church members for their contribution and dedication.
3. When you've been at a church for more than 1 year and church members ask you your name.
4. When musician is underpaid or stuck at the same salary for years and never receives a pay increase.
I support this message but many labor in the church working longing hours during the week but never see a dime. Why is the church musician exalted with pay but not others faithfully laboring? Isn't this a respecter of persons?
Got a video coming out on this.
This was very informativ.,Thank you..
If u live by faith the Lord will always provide not on your time but on time🙏💯
Amen
Been playing without pay for almost 3 years. It’s sometimes hard knowing that you could get compensation for your skills. Really at the crossroads at the moment.
On time word. Naysayers all around but God is in this. It’s never too late for a local church to change. Remember, you don’t pick your church you pick your pastor. Don’t let fear stop your moving as Jesus (the great Shepherd) leads you to. Be free! Plan your way out. If you have to Uber or Lyft, set it all up, God will provide. You need to be free from toxicity. See Galatians 5:1 (NIV).
When leaving, never put in an advance notice. Get your last check, quit on the spot and never go back.
At one church, I put in an advance notice for leaving at the end of the month. They let me go the following Sunday. That advance notice gave them time to find my replacement within a week. They replaced me before my my term was up and I was out of a few checks for the remaining of the month.
Not good
Yeah churches will do you dirty no matter how much you’ve sewn into them. I’m glad you posted this because I was going to let them know but now I’m not sure if I want to do that…
I never gave churches an advance notice and always left when I needed to. The first time I gave a church an advance notice, they were able to take immediate action looking for my replacement and found it.
@sebastianchristopher9461 that's the point. The world 🌎 DOES NOT revolve around you. Too much entitlement in musicians. Remember GOD gave you the gift brother 🙏
@@frederickweeksjr.1189 That’s not always how it happens though. Churches will take advantage of your gift and not care about you at all. They’ll also praise musicians who have put in far less effort. Most of us aren’t arrogant we’re just underappreciated or even used
It time to leave when unbiblical doctrine is taught, which occur in many churches
Ask the Pastor to write you a "to whom it may concern" referral letter acknowledging your service at the Church before any mention of leaving.
This letter or the refusal to provide such will confirm whether you need to go.
Great job 👍
Whew where was this video 10 years ago? Great topic 🙏🏽
You are damn right…❤
This is very true!!!!
Man I’ve given so much of my literal blood, sweat and tears just to go through divorce and the same church basically shun me and my wife. I was suicidal and couldn’t find a place of refuge. Pastors just kept pimping my gift. When I needed to be surrounded by those that said they love me and I’ve given my gift “my love” back to God in efforts to encourage his saints, they spiritual spit on me.
It’s crazy because I wouldn’t even have some of the connections to some of the leaders of I wasn’t a musician. I feel bad for the average Christain that comes to church and has no specific gift to serve with, people probably don’t even know they left.
Tell it………. ❤
No lies told! When you get that 2nd hot bad check it’s time to go. Jamal is 💯 correct. 20 years of foolishness unfortunately. COVD-19 was my last year of playing for black churches.
What Christians forget is that you got to test the spirit by the spirit (what's written in the bible). I must say this video is for everyone that loves the truth....the present day church is being shaken to its core because church is not what Jesus meant for it to be....its all performance, money, sex, and in some cases smoking weed before the sermon come forth...i am a musician for 36 years, a Minister, book writer, amoung other things...but i never sort recognition and God is blessing me tremendously, i said that to say "GO BACK TO YOUR FIRST LOVE, WHEN YOU FIRST MET THE SAVIOR ," JESUS CHRIST"
My situation is a little different, at my church we have the truth of the word and the doctrine that is said is biblical, but we severely lack in the music and there is absolutely zero effort to make a better sounding offering. I personally feel ive hit a plateau musically and I don’t feel like there’s any more room for improvement in my ministry and it also effects my spiritual life. If any of you have felt with this or anything similar words of wisdom would be appreciated 😪
Amen 🙏🏽
Wow. This is so alien to me! I guess our church culture is so different. No one gets paid. I play for the church I grew up in. I cannot even imagine a church pastor almost blackmailing someone to say. Is that a consequence of getting paid like it’s your job? It’s like being stuck in the wrong job but you can’t leave because it’s family!
I grew up leading worship and had up until about a year ago. It's no longer about Jesus. it's about the business, the best product. I had someone tell me, "of course we want you on staff! You're a tall, white guy, who is gifted!"
I quit playing in the church cause of these things.
Wow,this came at the right time. Just had a meeting with my pastor and his wife....and she was running the whole meeting. She is a bitter old lady that does not like me. Im done.
Make sure if you leave, that you leave in forgiveness. I know the feeling all too well. May God lead you.
The issue with mine is that my wife and I feel forgotten about and left out. It seems like I’m just seen as the keys player and not as an actual member. When I came to the church I was looking for an actual church not just somewhere to play. This church just happened to need a keys player. The other musicians are not members and play at other churches so they’re at my church once a month at best. It’s frustrating and I’m about ready to move on from it.
Jamal Hartwell Gob bless My Good friend Thank you For sharing ^ Producer Chico Black
A couple of things:
1) This is a Word not only for musicians, but also those suffering from being self-centered. People can make things about themselves when it is not.
2) Whoever is going through this now, please leave. The money might be good, but it is not worth your well being or soul. Im praying for you.
@8:56 I totally agree with you!
Great video
Alotta musicians may need to find regular jobs so they’re not forced to play for churches they don’t like. When I first started playing at this church, I didn’t really need the money, but, I’m now at a place where I need it, and I don’t like that I do.
Yeah it depends if the church is thankful to have you as well. I would not play for a church for free because when you do they act like you’re good and SHOULD be paid, and when they start paying you they act like you should make no mistakes because you’re getting paid 😂 🤦🏾♂️
Wtw!!! What about doing a work for the Lord … getting a check ? Smh can’t believe you said that … what happened to going to church for church and praising God 🤔💭
Even if you're not a musician, this is a word for ANYONE who feels like their church is no longer a hospital for sinners. Churches like what brother Jamal is speaking on here is why there's a decline in not only church attendance, but salvation within ANY of the Abrahamic religions, let alone the body of Christ (notice I didn't say Christianity because the loudest voices in Christianity are not reflective of what Christ wanted for us, but I digress).
Brother, people leave because they CHOOSE TO.
Your statement implies there can be salvation within other "Abrahamic religions" aside from Christianity.. Your statement exposes some cracks that speak to the need for reevaluation of your doctrine
@@darelet who's this?
I don’t understand this getting paid. I started playing drums at 13 and I have been playing in church since I was about 15 and I’m almost 39. I can’t tell you how many churches I’ve seen pay musicians who aren’t even Christians. It is a dangerously slippery slope. I’ll never understand getting paid to lead people in worship when you aren’t the leader…
"I hate that I need you"....wow.
That's so real right?
@@GospelMusicians my brother that hits home!
I’ve been there..
Bro…are you aging backwards?! 😂💪🏾
Do you musicians get paid?
Why does this sound like 1 Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is the root of all of evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows".
While this is excellent advice. It is sad though that is even necessary to say, if there is sinful behaviour, false teaching/gospels, manipulation and you stay because of the money... then God is not your God, money is.
I think the focus on paying musicians has created a almost mercenary attitude in some musicians and a boss/employee pastor rather than servant leadership - washing feet.
This is good conversation.
I would venture to say this could be for any position in the church. It might be magnified more on the musician side, but I've seen it across the board. Telling someone they are sacrificing their child to the devil by letting them play baseball (that occasionally might play on a Sunday) is a terrible thing and is not biblical.