The utmost perfect being, decended from everlasting holy light into darkness, became low, became man. Born in humble circumstances. Was tortured, degraded and killed. Decended thus even further into the darkest of dark. Rose again, defeating death and once again ascending into light and glory. It is ture, you cannot go beyond that.
@Desire Of All Nations I had to read that several times, because its like an oxymoron. But you are correct! Believers twists the simplest teachings of JESUS all the time, that it fits their ideas and their way of life.
Who is Jesus? I truly want to understand but I clearly don't. My understanding is that Christ or Jesus is a figure that represents moral perfection in a man. I'm lost beyond that.
@@vvv70v But Jesus is also a historical figure. He is not just an example but he lived and breathed and died as a sacrifice for our sins to reconcile us to God. The very existence of the Church testifies to the bravery of the disciples who had at one time fled in the face of the Crucifixion thinking Jesus had lost, they gave up! But three days later they found new hope and courage when they saw that Jesus had defeated death and rose again
@@chickenshark9 so we use him as an example of the perfectly moral man but he also was a real man. Does that mean he was perfect? I never read the bible so maybe that is why this doesn't make much sense to me how someone could be perfectly moral and a real human. To me a perfectly moral being has to be fictional in a sense. I don't see how a man could be perfectly moral since the world and I are clearly flawed or imperfect. Thank you for taking time to answer.
@@chickenshark9 I heard Jesus never broke the commandments, should I conclude that he wrote them? Did he not break the commandments because they never existed or were not written before? Did he follow them after creating them or at least putting them down in writing making it so that he did sin before the commandments were written but once they were he followed them? I'm sorry if my questions are hard to follow, I'm clearly lost when it comes to the biblical stories.
@@mrshankerbillletmein491 hypothesis: in the beginning, the story of Jesus was closer to what the jews had anticipated. Some of the more educated jews who understood the power in the metaphors of the old testament also understood that in their time, in the wake of roman occupation and the corruption of the pharisees, the Messiah of the prophecies needed to come alive. Political and religious corruption were tainting society and they needed the savior to deliver the powerless and poor, to provide them with a path to conceptualize spiritual devotion and self improvement. Then along came Paul. Paul had faith in the story, but he knew that it needed something more to appeal to the romans. He began to do away with religious laws that maintained tribalism and ethnocentrism. It's one thing to circumsize a baby, but a full grown and fully conscious adult male? Jesus may have even been real, the stories may have been his idea and he was quite possibly crucified. His inner group of apostles were probably not who they said they were and he probably didn't rise from the grave, but as with the miracles, they were all necessary additions to make people believe in his divinity. The gospels we know of were written long after jesus' life, so it is clear that the oral traditions had plenty of time to naturally select themselves into the most efficient story for generating conversions. They were most probably orchestrated by a group of religious leaders who were in agreement with one another. For me, an atheist, the story itself is undeniably powerful. However, there is nothing about the story's existence that mandates a supernatural explanation. I view this story as the epitome of what it means to be human, which is indeed to create stories that communicate meaning and value in an otherwise meaningless universe. Our minds operate in a constant paradox of subjectively experiencing an objective reality and the natural selection of ideas allows for the blossoming of religions and spiritual traditions. I highly advise reading into tibetan buddhism, zen buddhism, Zoroastrianism, and hinduism if you are under the impression that the story of christ is by far the greatest. It's the best from my perspective (excluding later stories that use the gospels as an influence), but there are many that come fairly close. Come to think of it, the story of Jesus itself is also built on many different stories that circulated previous cultures, so it's not like he was invented out of thin air. Cultural evolution baby
@@He.knows.nothing Ifs buts and maybes it was tough being a christian back then nothing to gain but trouble from the authorities especially if you were a leader.
@@mrshankerbillletmein491 it was hard being a Christian, therefore it's true? That's not a sound or valid argument. You see, my hypotheiss is full of ifs ands and buts, but from my perspective, you have no means of actually differentiating your truth claims from the ifs ands and buts of your own opinion. It's your opinion that the bible is true, if you want to claim that it's truth, demonstrate it. Provide me with a method that can distinguish between the real and imaginary in regards to biblical claims.
@@He.knows.nothing My point is there was nothing to gain by promoting Christ on the contrary. The Prophets are proof but I am sure you will not agree. What I think does not really matter.
Welp, once again, I love the video but I am repulsed by the comments section. Jordan is such an intriguing mind, capable of spanning so many different traditions, going both deeply and broadly into them.. why these backwoods bumpkins want to put him in a box is entirely beyond me. I understand that their minds are thethered to a 10 foot cross and chain, but why would they want to trap a free man inside their shallow and narrow prison?
Or you can believe that, like most of the stories in the Bible, the story of Christ’s life and teachings represent psychological states within the individual; as we put on the “Christ consciousness,” the Adam man who struggles and sins is crucified, and the new man resurrected.
Reductionism is not an argument. How else would it work? How else does something infinite and immaterial manifest itself in a finite and material world?
Fish live in water, and water in Sacred Scripture represents our intellect which flows and takes the shape of any form. It always seeks its level, as the intellect seeks the peace of understanding. Water rises in vapor and falls, and thought rises and falls. Thought reflects light and mirrors just as water does. Everything you can say about water has an analogy in the intellect. Then fish are those things that live in water. So what is it that lives in thought? I say the truth lives in thought and engenders truth. So then, I am thinking fish represent truths in the spiritual realm of the mind. Whatever Jung said about Pisces, he is still floundering in the material world..
Do you really think that if you are in paradise in the presence of god with trillions of Angels and billions of saints you are going to say “ this is all great but I wish I had a six-pack”
@@juliusbakker4415 biblically I'd think I'll be singing praises in ecstasis... but the rejection of form is tangible in our now - an eternity in something you reject is unappealing
I just came out from finishing 2 of Kings after going through the entire Torah and now being on the Tanak. My parents had Aion laying around when I was a kid. I'm not surprised Peterson's "god" is Jung, that's why he's stuck. You shouldn't worship any other gods, nor divinations, nor the stars, etc or you will pay dearly for it, like both Samaria and Judah did. Boy is he lost in the confusion and distracted by non-sense. No wonder Slavoj Zizek made him look silly with his Hegelian approach. He's so close, yet so FAR FAR away....he's clearly ADDICTED to intellectualism. Let's pray he actually WISHES to meet God and not to "study and dissect" like he's doing now. He's definitely enthralled by demons and lost in the journey. But God is ONE and God is Almighty. Praise Jesus! But at this pace I see him turning into a Gnostic or a Cabalist, least of all a real Christian. And all because of his damn pride.
@@eldermillennial8330 Well said!!! He said it on the previous clip with Jonathan, he cried about it, literally. But he does cover it with pride. Feelings stack upon one another to "occult" The Truth. But believe me, from experience, I KNOW God can pull people out of this kind of Bullshit. Let's pray Tammy becomes an influence on him. She's clearly much more of a Christian than he is. In the end, is up to each of us though. That's the beauty of creation.
@@einarabelc5 people for some reason need Peterson to justify Christianity. He knows nothing about God. He knows God through Jung, Hegel or whomever, and their view of God and Scripture and the interpretation of the same are very heretical. It’s beyond denominational heresies. And Peterson is the definition of Greek wanting wisdom of men, and great speeches, that Paul talked about. On the other spectrum are people wanting miracles, but preaching the cross is foolishness to them that perish. Peterson, however smart, is a fool, and his rules are crap, sustained by nothing except his speculations and speculations of his heroes. Christians draw their wisdom from a divine source, the word of a God, and the Bible is the most important book in the world and has weight no other book has. But there is nothing for him in the Bible. 1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Peterson, Peterson, what are you even blabbing about? Astrology has emerged thousands of years BEFORE christianity, and it had all sorts of myths associated with its tradition based on ancient greek and roman mythology. Christianity was TOTALLY plotted and political: It served for Constantine to gain more power and it was literally assembled at the first council of Nicaea. This is what you get when an american with no formal education in the classics plays the expert over European traditions... You became a complete joke here in Europe.
@@sunflare8798 It is historical the idea that there was not christianity 8 thousand years ago I mean everyone knows that but he states about a suprisng correlation between what christians were talking and things people said thousand years ago. Did you even read Aion by Jung?
Saying that Christ actually went into Hell to rescue the Prophets and the rest of the people of Israel and their predecessors is diminishing the power of his Sacrifice. That's considered Heresy. Same thing with Catholicism.
@@oompers9 According to your own common sense, which is not very common, least of all in organized bureaucratic political religion. But of course, false teachers need sheep. I could bring the word Evangelical here, but I don't have to. Is a matter of simple Logic. Believe what you will, it's your own Free Will. Is not my point to convince anyone. Yes, I've read both sides of the argument and what they say makes sense on BOTH ends in the broader picture, this is not a side where Catholicism and Orthodoxy are right about though. It would be cool, but that's putting God in a box and trying to read too much into things to get away, yet again, with our own definition of Good and Evil. Back to Original Sin that is.
@@einarabelc5 You sound like a politician. You use a lot of important sounding words and cast dispersions on the things that we are all weary of, but I don't see any answers in your responses. You previously accused JBP or being enthralled by demons and addicted to intellectualism. And while this may be technically true, the spirit of your words sound more like condemnation than anything else. You end your comments by throwing up some nice phrases but they seem to tonally conflict with the rest of your response. I am not saying that you are wrong in any of these situations. I just feel that you are focused far too much on blame and punishment, and could use a little more Love. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." It seems to me that if you were to speak that way to someone who is being touched by the holy spirit and is being led to the altar, then you very well might turn them away from it. Then pat yourself on the back for weeding out the chaff. Whether I am right or wrong, I pray that you and yours be blessed by the Lord.
The arrogance of Jordan is unreal. Thinks he needs to weigh in on how others should conceptualize Jesus when he doesn't even believe in anything in the Bible. Looking at Jordan and his life I don't think God likes it when people try to make his book into myth and allegory. He should stick to impressing children with big words and leave the word of God alone until such times as he is willing to take it seriously on its terms not his terms.
Take it easy, the dude is just trying to explain where he is coming from so that Pageau can explain what he has experienced. Peterson represents a lot of modern Americans who are looking into the metaphysical without the understanding of the Church father's or even Plato.
You look down on people struggling with christianity even though you can just see the worst inside them? Your words are so bitter, you should be the last person to judge anybody for their lack of faith. Believe in your resentful God that punishes Peterson for struggling with faith, what a great world you must live in.
The utmost perfect being, decended from everlasting holy light into darkness, became low, became man. Born in humble circumstances. Was tortured, degraded and killed. Decended thus even further into the darkest of dark. Rose again, defeating death and once again ascending into light and glory.
It is ture, you cannot go beyond that.
We pray for you Jordan Peterson 🙏
We’ll meet him soon 🕊
About JESUS; anyone who truly reads and understands JESUS could never speak one harmful word towards HIM.
@Desire Of All Nations I had to read that several times, because its like an oxymoron. But you are correct! Believers twists the simplest teachings of JESUS all the time, that it fits their ideas and their way of life.
Who is Jesus? I truly want to understand but I clearly don't. My understanding is that Christ or Jesus is a figure that represents moral perfection in a man. I'm lost beyond that.
@@vvv70v But Jesus is also a historical figure. He is not just an example but he lived and breathed and died as a sacrifice for our sins to reconcile us to God. The very existence of the Church testifies to the bravery of the disciples who had at one time fled in the face of the Crucifixion thinking Jesus had lost, they gave up! But three days later they found new hope and courage when they saw that Jesus had defeated death and rose again
@@chickenshark9 so we use him as an example of the perfectly moral man but he also was a real man. Does that mean he was perfect? I never read the bible so maybe that is why this doesn't make much sense to me how someone could be perfectly moral and a real human. To me a perfectly moral being has to be fictional in a sense. I don't see how a man could be perfectly moral since the world and I are clearly flawed or imperfect. Thank you for taking time to answer.
@@chickenshark9 I heard Jesus never broke the commandments, should I conclude that he wrote them? Did he not break the commandments because they never existed or were not written before? Did he follow them after creating them or at least putting them down in writing making it so that he did sin before the commandments were written but once they were he followed them? I'm sorry if my questions are hard to follow, I'm clearly lost when it comes to the biblical stories.
Jonathan’s shirt is great 🤠
Thumbs up to the both of you!
and its only a matter of when and not if for JP.
The only problem is where can he who is clearly an honest man fit into the churches of men?
@@kiwisaram9373 IMO the best scripture that describes who will live and who will not is EZEKIEL 33:12-20
@@kiwisaram9373, luckily you don't need "church" to have a relationship with God...
I think the same
@@andrevisser7542 Yes sir
The second hypothesis is harder to believe than the first.
I watched the whole livestream already but great clip!
"Obvious that no one could have made Christianity up". ......
" YA THINK"
Why would they
@@mrshankerbillletmein491 hypothesis: in the beginning, the story of Jesus was closer to what the jews had anticipated. Some of the more educated jews who understood the power in the metaphors of the old testament also understood that in their time, in the wake of roman occupation and the corruption of the pharisees, the Messiah of the prophecies needed to come alive. Political and religious corruption were tainting society and they needed the savior to deliver the powerless and poor, to provide them with a path to conceptualize spiritual devotion and self improvement.
Then along came Paul. Paul had faith in the story, but he knew that it needed something more to appeal to the romans. He began to do away with religious laws that maintained tribalism and ethnocentrism. It's one thing to circumsize a baby, but a full grown and fully conscious adult male?
Jesus may have even been real, the stories may have been his idea and he was quite possibly crucified. His inner group of apostles were probably not who they said they were and he probably didn't rise from the grave, but as with the miracles, they were all necessary additions to make people believe in his divinity.
The gospels we know of were written long after jesus' life, so it is clear that the oral traditions had plenty of time to naturally select themselves into the most efficient story for generating conversions. They were most probably orchestrated by a group of religious leaders who were in agreement with one another.
For me, an atheist, the story itself is undeniably powerful. However, there is nothing about the story's existence that mandates a supernatural explanation. I view this story as the epitome of what it means to be human, which is indeed to create stories that communicate meaning and value in an otherwise meaningless universe. Our minds operate in a constant paradox of subjectively experiencing an objective reality and the natural selection of ideas allows for the blossoming of religions and spiritual traditions. I highly advise reading into tibetan buddhism, zen buddhism, Zoroastrianism, and hinduism if you are under the impression that the story of christ is by far the greatest. It's the best from my perspective (excluding later stories that use the gospels as an influence), but there are many that come fairly close. Come to think of it, the story of Jesus itself is also built on many different stories that circulated previous cultures, so it's not like he was invented out of thin air. Cultural evolution baby
@@He.knows.nothing Ifs buts and maybes it was tough being a christian back then nothing to gain but trouble from the authorities especially if you were a leader.
@@mrshankerbillletmein491 it was hard being a Christian, therefore it's true? That's not a sound or valid argument. You see, my hypotheiss is full of ifs ands and buts, but from my perspective, you have no means of actually differentiating your truth claims from the ifs ands and buts of your own opinion. It's your opinion that the bible is true, if you want to claim that it's truth, demonstrate it. Provide me with a method that can distinguish between the real and imaginary in regards to biblical claims.
@@He.knows.nothing My point is there was nothing to gain by promoting Christ on the contrary. The Prophets are proof but I am sure you will not agree. What I think does not really matter.
How do I spell the book and author?
Aion. Carl Jung.
@@Patcannistan you da man
Welp, once again, I love the video but I am repulsed by the comments section.
Jordan is such an intriguing mind, capable of spanning so many different traditions, going both deeply and broadly into them.. why these backwoods bumpkins want to put him in a box is entirely beyond me. I understand that their minds are thethered to a 10 foot cross and chain, but why would they want to trap a free man inside their shallow and narrow prison?
Or you can believe that, like most of the stories in the Bible, the story of Christ’s life and teachings represent psychological states within the individual; as we put on the “Christ consciousness,” the Adam man who struggles and sins is crucified, and the new man resurrected.
Reductionism is not an argument.
How else would it work? How else does something infinite and immaterial manifest itself in a finite and material world?
Fish live in water, and water in Sacred Scripture represents our intellect which flows and takes the shape of any form. It always seeks its level, as the intellect seeks the peace of understanding. Water rises in vapor and falls, and thought rises and falls. Thought reflects light and mirrors just as water does. Everything you can say about water has an analogy in the intellect. Then fish are those things that live in water. So what is it that lives in thought? I say the truth lives in thought and engenders truth. So then, I am thinking fish represent truths in the spiritual realm of the mind. Whatever Jung said about Pisces, he is still floundering in the material world..
Does that defeating death trap us as pretty/ugly via forever via bodily resurrection in that belief structure?
Do you really think that if you are in paradise in the presence of god with trillions of Angels and billions of saints you are going to say “ this is all great but I wish I had a six-pack”
@@juliusbakker4415 biblically I'd think I'll be singing praises in ecstasis... but the rejection of form is tangible in our now - an eternity in something you reject is unappealing
No..your gonna have to burn off that idea of pretty/ugly before you get thru the narrow gate
@@maychiu1419 just the monotonous glory of perfect love ;)
@@GrimGriz Perfect Love is a Symphony not a Monotony
Did Jordan ever admit that he does not believe in any god? He doesn't.
what do you mean by believe? what do you mean by god?
I just came out from finishing 2 of Kings after going through the entire Torah and now being on the Tanak. My parents had Aion laying around when I was a kid. I'm not surprised Peterson's "god" is Jung, that's why he's stuck. You shouldn't worship any other gods, nor divinations, nor the stars, etc or you will pay dearly for it, like both Samaria and Judah did. Boy is he lost in the confusion and distracted by non-sense. No wonder Slavoj Zizek made him look silly with his Hegelian approach. He's so close, yet so FAR FAR away....he's clearly ADDICTED to intellectualism. Let's pray he actually WISHES to meet God and not to "study and dissect" like he's doing now. He's definitely enthralled by demons and lost in the journey. But God is ONE and God is Almighty. Praise Jesus! But at this pace I see him turning into a Gnostic or a Cabalist, least of all a real Christian. And all because of his damn pride.
It’s not “pride” in his case. It’s fear, the wrong kind of fear. The fear of being overwhelmed by a Great Mystery.
@@eldermillennial8330 Well said!!! He said it on the previous clip with Jonathan, he cried about it, literally. But he does cover it with pride. Feelings stack upon one another to "occult" The Truth. But believe me, from experience, I KNOW God can pull people out of this kind of Bullshit. Let's pray Tammy becomes an influence on him. She's clearly much more of a Christian than he is. In the end, is up to each of us though. That's the beauty of creation.
@@einarabelc5 people for some reason need Peterson to justify Christianity. He knows nothing about God. He knows God through Jung, Hegel or whomever, and their view of God and Scripture and the interpretation of the same are very heretical. It’s beyond denominational heresies. And Peterson is the definition of Greek wanting wisdom of men, and great speeches, that Paul talked about. On the other spectrum are people wanting miracles, but preaching the cross is foolishness to them that perish. Peterson, however smart, is a fool, and his rules are crap, sustained by nothing except his speculations and speculations of his heroes. Christians draw their wisdom from a divine source, the word of a God, and the Bible is the most important book in the world and has weight no other book has. But there is nothing for him in the Bible. 1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Get in line, there are 3000 other religions.
@@the11382 Atheism is a religious worldview without the deity.
What the hell are they talking about
Peterson, Peterson, what are you even blabbing about?
Astrology has emerged thousands of years BEFORE christianity, and it had all sorts of myths associated with its tradition based on ancient greek and roman mythology. Christianity was TOTALLY plotted and political: It served for Constantine to gain more power and it was literally assembled at the first council of Nicaea.
This is what you get when an american with no formal education in the classics plays the expert over European traditions... You became a complete joke here in Europe.
He Perfectly knows everything you wrote
@@wojciechgawalkiewicz7174 sure, that's why he continues to say such ahistorical crap
@@sunflare8798 It is historical the idea that there was not christianity 8 thousand years ago I mean everyone knows that but he states about a suprisng correlation between what christians were talking and things people said thousand years ago. Did you even read Aion by Jung?
@@wojciechgawalkiewicz7174 there's no evidence for such correlation, it's just christian wishful thinking
Old Testament, being in its root old as astrology, is part of the Christian belief and formation trought Judaism
Saying that Christ actually went into Hell to rescue the Prophets and the rest of the people of Israel and their predecessors is diminishing the power of his Sacrifice. That's considered Heresy. Same thing with Catholicism.
Why do you considered it heresy?
Do you prefer to define “hell” and “hades/Sheol” as completely distinct?
according to whom?
@@oompers9 According to your own common sense, which is not very common, least of all in organized bureaucratic political religion. But of course, false teachers need sheep. I could bring the word Evangelical here, but I don't have to. Is a matter of simple Logic. Believe what you will, it's your own Free Will. Is not my point to convince anyone. Yes, I've read both sides of the argument and what they say makes sense on BOTH ends in the broader picture, this is not a side where Catholicism and Orthodoxy are right about though. It would be cool, but that's putting God in a box and trying to read too much into things to get away, yet again, with our own definition of Good and Evil. Back to Original Sin that is.
@@einarabelc5 You sound like a politician. You use a lot of important sounding words and cast dispersions on the things that we are all weary of, but I don't see any answers in your responses.
You previously accused JBP or being enthralled by demons and addicted to intellectualism. And while this may be technically true, the spirit of your words sound more like condemnation than anything else. You end your comments by throwing up some nice phrases but they seem to tonally conflict with the rest of your response.
I am not saying that you are wrong in any of these situations. I just feel that you are focused far too much on blame and punishment, and could use a little more Love.
"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
It seems to me that if you were to speak that way to someone who is being touched by the holy spirit and is being led to the altar, then you very well might turn them away from it. Then pat yourself on the back for weeding out the chaff.
Whether I am right or wrong, I pray that you and yours be blessed by the Lord.
The arrogance of Jordan is unreal. Thinks he needs to weigh in on how others should conceptualize Jesus when he doesn't even believe in anything in the Bible. Looking at Jordan and his life I don't think God likes it when people try to make his book into myth and allegory. He should stick to impressing children with big words and leave the word of God alone until such times as he is willing to take it seriously on its terms not his terms.
Take it easy, the dude is just trying to explain where he is coming from so that Pageau can explain what he has experienced.
Peterson represents a lot of modern Americans who are looking into the metaphysical without the understanding of the Church father's or even Plato.
You look down on people struggling with christianity even though you can just see the worst inside them? Your words are so bitter, you should be the last person to judge anybody for their lack of faith. Believe in your resentful God that punishes Peterson for struggling with faith, what a great world you must live in.